Guild Wars 2

Carighan.6758:

Scenario:
You are actually fighting a real fight, and not 1v1. People are shooting at you from all directions. You hit Pistol whip. You are dead. You hit Blurred Frenzy. You are dead 2 seconds later. Both are meh, but one works a lot better.

(point being: 1v1 is the most senseless way to compare abilities, at the very least use 5v5 scenarios where locking yourself into pistol whip paints a target marker over your head)

If I recall correctly the second phase of pistol whip also has evade frame, though it is shorter and the first stun phase is still vulnerable. Capable thief can still dodge like mesmer after pistol whip ended, or shadowstep out of the way.

Regarding no CD argument…why would you even bring core mechanics into weapon comparison ?_?

I agree with what you said, but I like this extreme. There should be some form of weakness in each build so players have to support each other in “Guild” Wars 2, or else trying to outplay their opponent through experience and flexibility. Currently there are a lot of self-sustaining and forgiving builds from other professions that are near great in everything. While I kind of wish mesmers are part of it, having more of those around is probably not a great idea.

pffft everything happens in EotM, check this out

Who likes perma burning and direct damage? Spirit weapons + supreme justice for constant burning; unpopular superior rune of flame legion + fiery wrath for 17% damage multipliers. I choose -40% condi duration over +40% condi duration because burn duration is already near the cap (85%) and condition builds may eat this guard alive.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQRAsf7dl0ApKoFBxbI8DNR8Ql5d0iWeCZQ1BwA8oA-TFCEABIqEMS1fM4EAwy+DV8EAoT/AAHEAoU+FAABw4Fv4Fv4FP38m38m38mlCgJpRA-w

Myrias.8732:

How about just add blind on clone death (1 sec) to one of the current on death traits? That way having people kill your clones is a defensive manuever in addition to offensive. (I suppose cripple and confusion on death are also defensive, but picking up the confusion is hard point-wise and crippling can be worthless depending on the situation).

Confusion on interrupt would be nice, but it’d either be OP or worthless since having it stack with perplexity runes would be impossible to balance. It’d probably get nerfed to the ground and thus become worthless in either event since people really like complaining about confusion as we all know. Maybe add confusion to CI instead of cripple?

Personally I would rather see slight tweaking happen through a lot of our traits we currently have to open more builds than adding more traits. Less choices that are more meaningful is better than a ton of low-impact choices. Not that I don’t want choice, but adding too many options tends to not end well.

There is a confusion on interruption trait (4 stacks! 8 seconds! no ICD!) in GW2, however it is a warrior trait. I bet warriors are like “jokes on you mesmers”. Unfortunately as I played warrior I also felt that this trait is a bit of a waste, since warriors’ interruption weapons (hammer, mace, shield) are less condition orientated than dual sword and longbow.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Distracting_Strikes

I remembered a mesmer veteran once said mesmer’s RNG usually consist of a good condition, an alright condition and a bad condition. The bad condition for staff AA is vulnerability; CI is cripple (cripple+immobilize lol), and debilitating dissipation is vulnerability (probably bleed as well after nerf) etc. So we do have more dramatic RNG chance variation compared to the rest of the classes. Would be nice to tweak these so we don’t actually have a “bad pick”, like change cripple in CI to weakness so you can deny opponents of endurance refill, vulnerability of debilitating dissipation to confusion for offense or blind for defense.

Blind on clone death could be potentially be OP if not for the random 5s ICD nerf on blinding befuddlement, but honestly that trait only apply 1 stack of confusion for 4s, does that really require 5s of CD?

MoP is now a 240 AoE so tagging is no longer an issue, MoD is now 180 AoE so it opens up some zerg interruption builds. The “newer” new trait triumphant distortion allows phantasm to have 1s distortion when cast, thus allow at least one or half an attack against zerg. However mantra channeling is still slow and the CD on phantasm means GWEN is still dominating the zerg damage.

Specific nerf at PU is that they added more boons to dilute aegis/protection/regen proc. Swiftness is alright but one stack of might is just there to annoy people. What Pyro refers to hitting other builds are the clone death traits, they can now be evaded and debilitating dissipation has its bleed damage reduced by 40% or so.

iLeap clones no longer suffer horrible pathing issues such as tripped over on hills/stairs or chasing random butterflies, but they are now LoS restricted. Some people also reflect that it can’t function at 600 range. Also iSwap no longer works when the clone died, so it is harder for mesmer to avoid hambow chain in melee range.

iElasticity now functions on staff clone’s WoC, many condition builds now invest 4 (btw traits are 14 points instead of 70 points now, everything is in x5 increment) traits into illusions. This also add little bit more sustain pressure to GS/Staff shatter build, which is our best current meta in tPvP. Just to add a little more to what Pyro said, despite it is our best meta atm, it takes a lot of effort and skills for this shatter build to shine in high end tPvP.

Exactly what Fay said, most 6/6/0/2/0 rangers I see are just as glassy as you. Essentially you want to pressure them enough so they have to go on defensive. Check out Vashury’s shatter tactics he posted recently, blink shatter is a very good way to start a fight against ranger. Usually when I pull it right that’s 70%-90% glass ranger hp gone, then diversion or knock back down before they can heal.

Fay.2357:

Hamfast.8719:

Nope. Busted again.

I went back again this evening. Everyone was totally ignoring my clones/phantasms/etc.

I experimented a little. I had two clones out fighting a guy, and I wasn’t attacking at all. I was running away. The bad guy religiously followed me for well over a full minute (before I put a stop to it), completely ignoring any clones that got in between us. This one is going to the Bugs forum.

I still don’t understand why you want monsters to attack your illusions. If they attack your illusions, your illusions die and do no damage. It’s better to have monsters attacking you, because then you can avoid their damage by using the massive amounts of active defense that mesmers have and kill them quicker that way.

Monsters attacking you is better, this is the way it should be.

Edit: Also, this is hilarious:

Plus my Warrior sometimes-main character has been taken out of action thanks to the 9/9 Adrenaline nerf.

Idk, maybe just one of those situations where you run out of endurance, health and heal so you want your illusions to delay time for you. The adrenaline cool off right after taking out the mob is a bit similar to mesmer illusions now, so if warriors are accustomed to carry adrenaline damage multiplier to the next battle (which was there for quite a long time) they might find it annoying.

Back to OP, maybe this will help, but its hard to predict with all those factors influencing aggro
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aggro

Fay.2357:

Wyrden.4713:

what happens if 2-4 ppl put reflects? do all of em get pulled?

It functions exactly like every other reflect in the game. Can 3 people reflect one projectile?

Just out of curiosity since I never knew if a projectile gets reflect more than once. Suppose we have one guardians in each team, each decides to cast wall of reflection. Would the projectile like ranger arrows continue to bounce between the walls? If so then who gets pulled when the mesmer use phase retreat between them, both the ally and opponent guardian?

It could also be ranger’s Sic ‘Em or engineer’s analyze. Both apply 6s reveal, which is long enough for players to make few stealth mistakes without noticing debuff. Analyze is less common though due to how competitive their utility slots are. adelaide does raise an interesting point, from my view they’re using the attacks when you reflect, but this may depends on people’s perspective.

Sandrox.9524:

They will soon,that is what you dont get,it is only began,they know it will get nerfed soon so they are jusst waiting,in a couple of weeks you gonna see every ranger run a lb setup.(it is already now if you play wvw).

Everyone says MESMER USE DISTORTION!! but what they dotn get that distortion is LONG FREAKING LONG cooldown that in that time ranger cant pull off RF chain 5 times!!! and who said rangers stick to one place? they have dodges,evades and everything just to wait for yet again ANOTHER BARRAGE OF RF.Im tired of them abusing this broken skill all over wvw and tpvp,anet should strict this skill only for pve.
Thieves can manage them with dazes and shadowstepping but mesmers?
im tired of ppl who dont know mesmer,saying you can distortion it sure,you can reflect it. OFC I CAN maybe I place some down skill traits too to be more less usefull in combat but at least gain advantage of a freaking ranger who get me insta down everytime he uses the freaking 8s cd joke of a skill called RF.An I highly doubt that tpvp mesmers are not agree with me.

So what exactly is your point of this thread? If you re-look at your OP then you clearly are asking for method in facing LB ranger. In your opening you are NOT raging for a mechanism that you now said to be broken, and we are trying to maintain proper talks until some derails and random burst of emotions. So yeah, that is and still will be the answers you get: distortion, reflect, dodge and gap close. What more do you want from fellow mesmers who’re providing suggestions here? Sucking up your rage like we are the devs? Tagging people in this thread as “ppl who dont know mesmer” is only poisoning this thread, so please say something constructive after you chilled from your anger. If not, then honestly there’s nothing more to discuss in this thread.

oh btw I mean 3 condi removals in total for torch, because iMage bolt that hits you also cleanse one condition. So one on cast and one on hit.

I like your hybrid build btw, pretty interesting set up. I think the main thing that allows condition to shine is the food buff, which make illusionary counter quite deadly if left unattended. Although I’m curious as to how you would cover/protect that killer move?

Just give you an idea in turns of necessary condition cleanse, since P/D thief is definitely not a minority in WvW roaming. There’s couple of variation from this build (eg. 2/0/6/0/6) but I’m just grabbing one randomly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfB0yXm35s8

As you can see P/D thieves can easily reapply cleansed bleed within 4 seconds, only limited by revealed time (particularly against mesmers since CnD on illusion is easy). Other conditions are also only limited by initiation, which P/D doesn’t have high demands of. So having condition removal on torch (two 24s) may not be sufficient, even though you can remove 3 conditions in total. Mender’s purity on ether feast is quite risky due to poison and covering conditions, 33% drop in healing may seal the coffin for you unless you have multiple healings like mantra of healing.

Easy way to get around this? You can use MoC as above suggested or harmonious mantra + mantra of healing for 6 condition removals + 7500 healings per 15s-ish.

BTW kudos to Irxallis.7350 for video presentation of mesmer dueling against ranger!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXsE5TMN1-M

I slot in masterful reflection on adept major trait, and it works well with IP distortion (some people on forum said there’s bug of not working, but I’m having success in this so I’m not sure). Just today I downed a careless ranger with it. To be fair though I fought him a bit so his hp is low enough that he downed himself before reacting to quickness RF. Slot in illusionary invigoration, and you’ll have another shot at reflecting if he tries to wear you out for later PBS+RF combo.

Gear wise both of you must be having zerker gear to reach 15k damage. Maybe swap to knight trinkets first while you’re adjusting to LB attack cycle? Zerk rangers are quite squishy towards shatter and knight is sufficient enough to hurt them.

Main thing about fighting LB ranger is to avoid their cc. Generally they’ll try to use PBS or pet immobilize/fear to prevent you from dodging, and this can become quite predictable. If they don’t even use cc then great, save your dodges at the right time. LB can be quite clumsy in close range so they’ll try to draw their distance. Try to stay close to him using blink, that’s the main gap closer I used when facing LB ranger. Close range also reduce LB auto by a lot, eventually he’ll swap his weapon if you push him hard enough.

I changed illusion adept major trait to Masterful Reflection (distortion cause reflect) so I can pop that when getting unexpected RF burst. Quite handy for shatter mesmers since you can pop that even when the ranger use LB #4 to push you onto the ground (which many rangers do that to ensure opponent less likely to dodge RF).

I do wonder if there’s any cap in endurance refilling rate though, like what we have in condition duration. So vigor already caused endurance refilling rate to go 100% faster, do you get 240% refilling rate (100% base rate + 100% vigor + 40% food) by combining vigor with this food?

Just want to get your guys’ thought on this spirit weapon. I reckon its command is a powerful cc since its a fast leaping knockdown that lasts 3s (plus the nice damage it brings). After the patch it won’t get destroyed even after command, so do you guys think its useful in PvP/WvW roaming? (Not zergs because it’ll die instantly in zerg anyway)

I tried to create a hybrid spirit weapon build, what do you guys think of this? Granted critical damage won’t be as pretty as zerker but the hopefully burning damage and 2 damage multipliers can make up for it.
Build editor hasn’t update yet, but hammer command is 12s CD and sword command is 8s CD.

Wait retaliation no longer has 33% reduction in damage? If that’s true then this guardian build may interest you

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQJARWl0ApSoFCxRIEENR8QZ9JsCRa1BQDslYdiA-TFyCABAcEAsU9H82f44LBQe6CSUJYWK/k4BAEAABYmzMAMexLexLexzMn5Mn5MnZpAmUaE-w
Interesting build I found on guardian forum. Awkward build indeed, but retaliation is calculated to be around 570 hp per hit (not including might stacks and guard killers). Plus you burn opponent roughly 960 hp per second. If, however, 33% retaliation reduction still applies then only 370 hp per tick.

Torch #4 is quite useful in GS + Sw/torch power shatter set up. It can be used to set up shatter nukes or escape after the burst. But yeah torch #5 is simply there for shatter folder in power builds lol. If you trait for torch cleanse #5 cleanse one condition on cast and one more condition when iMage bolt bounces back to you, but the bolt only hits you once per attack. However that trait is fiercely competed with boon strip in shatter builds.

I like how you tag people as “enjoying the buff” so you sounded more objective. But truth be told, if you don’t present a solid in-combat analysis footage of “Tack on swiftness and might” on “perma protection, everfrequent blocks” and “overpowers everything in a 1v1” then no one is going to find your argument objective, no matter how many “We tested” you said.

Traiting IE also means losing torch CD or DE, either one has cons when compared to standard 4/4/6/0/0 PU. Torment AA also isn’t as bad as you think, the main killer is still scepter #2 block, as oppose to 2s torment from kill-able clone’s slow projectile (which can miss if you just run sideways at sufficient distance). I think people just need time to adjust to the new condition, and try not to burn cleanse too early.

I don’t think clone death is as significant now since its evade-able and has 40%-45% loss of bleed damage. I’ve seen lots of random clone killing after the patch and there isn’t enough punishment to stop people from doing so. Also 3s swiftness hardly make mesmer faster, if you think stacking swiftness is a problem then consider how much defensive boons your opponent lose when proc swiftness more than once.

Superior sigil of cleansing has an ICD of 9s. So warrior won’t get much extra benefit from it.

When do we get phantasm runes though? How about clone death runes? Maybe a rune set that recovers lost endurance?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Evasion

ICD is 10s, just short of CD for mind wrack in shatter build. Combine with fury and cripple could potentially be alternative source of soft cc (not as reliable but less predictable than iLeap) to set up close range shatter. Anyone want to test the range? Recipe is about 6g atm but I can’t spare much gold right now.

Please don’t put a tag and despise people who just want to try something new. To them the game isn’t just about meta and winning.

Sincerely
Someone who played shatter since he begins this game

If you play condition shatter you need to rely on auto attack on torment more in the beginning. Instant shatter will definitely not work like power shatter. You set up your illusions, after some attempts your shattering illusion finally hit your opponents but your opponent cleansed the condition before your set up pays. Shatter’s burst nature also puts much less pressure on opponent between shatter waves, much different from non-shattering specs like phantasms.

So you need those AA torment or AA burn/bleed first to roughen your opponent or make them panic, then use shatter when they burnt their cleanse. That’s pretty much the way I see MtD. Due to its burst/sacrificing illusions nature you lack a reliable way to constantly apply strong conditions. In a way you can say this trait is pretty bad, because in order for this trait to work we need some easily applicable conditions outside of illusions.

I don’t exactly have the link, its quite a while ago. But they implied guardian and mesmer has too long vigor so they change vigor on crit trait to half time vigor (doubling the CD or halving the vigor duration, can’t exactly remember which).

In contrast to signet of midnight, decoy and blink allows you to re-position yourself better imo. You can probably escape the stun chain with SoM, but it won’t be as versatile as those 2 skills. I understand SoM can help with stomp, but you can also achieve that with decoy or phase retreat+blink.

I probably would replace SoI with blink into shatter build if CD time is reduced and I’m dueling. Coping with 60s illusionary invigoration trait is one thing, but coping with a 90s utility really makes me wonder…

Just curious and a slightly off-topic. If we want to add damaging RNG into staff auto and DD to replace vulnerability, what would it be? I think DD can have burn (with shorter duration) but how about staff auto?

Anyways I totally agree the defensive PU trait shouldn’t have an offensive boon like might. If they just want to dilute PU effectiveness then put retaliation instead, retaliation is only most useful in zerg situations and PU is not exactly the best in zerg. Vigor may not be an option though since ANet is trying to reduce vigor across many professions (mesmer included).

I think frifox is testing a condition PvE build (Condition! I know aye? I’m quite excited about this) with staff IE fix where you can solo stack 18 bleed/perma burn/23 might/perma fury in melee range. It’s really interesting and hopefully we can see more about this after the patch

Shatter builds are very versatile when it comes to weapon choice. I use Sw/Sw+Staff for large single damage in PvP. Except I trait halting strike instead of mental torment. Granted I have less burst but I can deliver more consistent damage outside of mind wrack.

It is very much a strong melee set up where I have to close in with iSwordsman and iRiposte. Each of them delivers 3-4k damage if crit, so a strong start if opponent aren’t careful with dodging and attacks. But if they do dodge I also baited out their dodge for following shatter. If they don’t attack me during iRiposte I then sent counter blade at them, which often gets me an interrupted damage with 1.5k halting strike hit. Chaos storm also becomes quite deadly when you trait for halting strike, but that’s not really about Sw/Sw :P

However, sometimes I feel that I lack chase potential (which hopefully the iLeap patch will address that) due to lack of stun. And without the stun your opponent will be able to dodge iLeap easier.

Furthermore iDuelist’s attack will lock into opponent when initiated, even if opponent goes into stealth. iSwordsman aren’t so good when it comes to stealth opponents due to melee. However people will normally dodge iDuelist’s barrage after taking a few hits (or take full if they think they’re tanky enough), whereas iSwordsman deliver instant damage. I think the effectiveness is very much dependent on your opponent so no weapon wins here.

So both sword and pistol has pros and cons. I’d probably go for the one I like the best, whether you want pistol with stun for landing shatter easier or sword with more ways to apply damage.

Guard have better spirit weapon and meditation build. Spirit weapons can now be activated without destroying the spirits but spirits still suffers AI problem. Meditation will have slightly better sustain with Renewed Focus being a meditation skill (2k heals and 72s recharge, fury is too short for this skill to be used). Tome changes are unlikely to make it more frequent. Overall you probably still mainly see guard bunkers and this patch won’t really affect how mesmers deal with them.

S/D thieves used to rely on (precast FS)+LS+Steal+fire+air proc for instant burst. The main damage comes from LS but after the patch LS can only be activated after FS lands, so dodging FS can put quite a toll on their initiative system. Smart thieves can probably use illusions to land their FS then LS+Steal to strike the true mesmer. I’d say they’re still countering mesmer in general. Furthermore with the clone death nerf we’re probably going to see more S/P pistol whip spam.

Lich won’t necessary have bigger spike though, the devs balanced power scale with damage multiplier so the overall damage is similar but fire/air proc deals less damage.

Could somebody else explain ele’s change to mesmer?

So by taking keenlam’s advice I randomly mix zerker/assassin/knight and made a high crit build without losing too much toughness or power.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQJAWRl0npYtloxGNcrNiphcqqkOwhBle0lFA-TFTEwAvUXwpSCoKFAcBA0qEswhAYpygoKxi8EAupSDbdB42fgUAjKMC-w

80% crit chance after 25 stacks of precision, and 100% crit chance when proc runes of pack on hit effect. And with 5 guard killers and 3+ might (observed by adjust to 10 might in build editor) you still achieve 2650 power. Takes a while to build up stacks but after that you can achieve area 5.5k-6k damage from 3 power spikes with ease. While still being really tanky with 1380 toughness/2300 armor (2.9k armor during mantra charge).

It is a bit hard to get vitality up without losing crit chance since there’s little beneficial stats combo that main vitality, so I chose toughness instead. Hopefully 2500 extra hp from guard killers will help you tank through conditions.

The buff won’t address the offensive problem with phantasm builds, you have an iZerker that hit a group of enemies and got destroyed the moment it finishes its attack. Then for the rest of 20s (shorter if traited) you lack phantasm to do damage. iSwordsman and iWarlock may survive to deliver high single damage, iDuelist and iWarden probably won’t survive to finish the attack.

However I’m quite interested in iDefender, does completely negate 50% of damage by drawing your damage and become immune to it?

Im Bamf Joe’s build is one of the best offensive shatter build and I don’t see any mistrait/gear in your link. However he’s also dependent on his teammate to remove nasty conditions from him, even though he already has a lot of evade/stealth to avoid getting them. If you feel condition is eating you in solo then you probably need to switch mirror images to mantra of resolve. iDisenchanter can be good between shatter intervals but there are times when you lack condition removal.

Thanks for all the valuable feedback fellas! Greatly appreciated! It makes perfect sense that positioning is more important than tankiness. And you do have a scary power if go full zerk, almost hitting 3k power with guard killers and 3+ might from weapon swap (see below).
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQJAWRl0npYtloxGNcrNiphcqqkOwhBle0lFA-T1BBwAYV+B4SAgT9HPPBg86CKu/wZlgkCIihRA-w

However, there’re 2 reasons why I refrain from going full zerk. It really depends on the matter of taste and I felt that no one is wrong here.
1. When commander is asking to push, the melee line will try to scale pass AoE spams. Being a range unit I don’t have to take as much hits, but when enemies are pushed further I’ll have to walk into several AoEs to reach them. Same thing when enemies are pushing our zerg they’re range unit is likely to spam AoE behind us, so having some toughness can at least mitigate that damage (even better when have MoS to avoid getting caught in CC spam).
2. MoP/Power spike scales quite bad with power. Even with 250 more power my power spike only increased damage by 50 (so about 100-200 extra crit damage). So I feel that investment would probably pay off more in 600 extra toughness and 200 extra vitality. Again if you think we won’t take as much damage you’re perfectly right.

I do, however, really like 20% increase in critical chance and 15% increase in critical damage. Since I have full zerk on me right now I’ll probably test out with full zerk first, then see how much soldier gear I need to add to survive.

I just wish CS would pays off despite its conflicting nature xD. 2 man stun from 1200 range isn’t too bad, even better if they panic and burn off stun breakers.

Just give people a little idea on how wide is mantra AoE is, see 2:26-2:31 for MoP’s 240 range. Also see 2:31 to 2:37 for MoD’s 180 range. Would you guys think this range is sufficient for zerg?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu-cKaSZbnQ

Sorry if you seen this somewhere before, but I feel like posting this at other place can be a bit derailing to their topic. So I’ll make a topic here to get some feedback about this build. Because I’m lazy and I just posted similar stuff before I’ll just copy it here

This is the full mantra build I came up with couple of weeks ago, more useful when stacking with pug commander (when you’re not running with guild and lack the role to gank backlines).
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQJAWRl0npYtloxGNcrNiphcqqkOwhBle0lFA-TVCBwA5UX4sSQsKDAcJA8q0DnKNeeCAO3fQvuASBExwI-w
As you can see I balance zerker/soldier/cavalier to achieve 2432 power (plus 250 from npc kills), 2438 armor, 18222hp (plus 2500 from npc kills), 50% crit chance and 209% crit damage, so damage wise isn’t too bad.

With protective mantra I can achieve 3k total armor when channeling mantra (equivalent of support guard in knight armor), which channeling MoP will probably take up most of my time when my weapon skills are in CD. The channeling in this mantra build can make it awfully boring in zerg, but 2.7k power, 3k armor, 20k hp, 50% crit chance and 209% crit damage is really really high in mesmer standard, almost the same as what you see in warrior.
——-
Your job is to stay at midline, avoid people ganking the backline or CC load in the front line. Your weapon and utility skills have a rather long range and can avoid reflect. Maybe not too far from utility bot, but more offensive utilities than purely VEIL! VEIL! VEIL!

MoR provided 7.5k healing and 6 condition removals. This is kind of stating the obvious but unlike other healing skills we can adjust how much we want to heal. Just need to be careful when you have full condition set on you covering your poison. Those covering conditions can potentially make all your healing reduced by 33%.

MoP will be roughly 1k damage (2k-2.3k crit damage) when you have guard killers and 3+ might from weapon swap. So ideally 3 charge attacks give area 6k damage in just 3 seconds. Not bad in tagging or damage. Best of all people can’t walk away from the damage like in AoE circle.

MoD has 5s interval of stun/dazing opponents, aim for the enemy cmdr when stability isn’t on and you’re likely to get 2 people stun. This is helpful in disrupting your opponent when they’re stacking and with multiple mesmers doing this we can get a long tail at enemy zerg. During MoD’s 24s recharge you can use weapon skills to do damage or further CC.

Veil can be changed to mantra of stability if you’re unsure about this lack of stun breakers. If you’re zerg already have other mesmers using veil then by all means go for some form of stun breakers. I mentioned mantra of stability because it’s a 3 times stun breaker, even though the short duration makes it less reliable in stability.

Mass invisibility is more of your last escape if your zerg lost the battle. Why? Because this build lacks flexibility and is very much tied to the zerg. If you’re zerg if failing then you severely lack the ability to escape. But ofc we all want to win the battle or fight to the last man so you can swap to time warp if you want.

Probably most of the time you’ll be charging mantras, this is where protective mantra truly shines compare to deceptive evasion. DE isn’t the best skill to use when in zerg and protective mantra makes you awfully tanky when charging it. Just think about 3k armor, Mesmer dream! You, however, need to avoid cc while charging mantras, that means stay out of warriors and static field.

Please give your feedback on this build, it helps me improve it or at best know its weakness more. I know channeling mantra is a really boring process but I’d like to know more :P

Without derail the topic too much, 6/6/0/2/0 or 4/6/0/4/0 mantra builds or 2/0/6/0/6 chillruption build can have more significant role in zerg now. Mesmer still isn’t the best dps class but having a cc role can be interesting. Just need to aim at enemy cmdr I suppose to best utilize that 180 radius skill.

This is the mantra build I came up with couple of weeks ago, more useful when stacking with pug commander (when you’re not running with guild and lack the role to gank backlines).
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQJAWRl0npYtloxGNcrNiphcqqkOwhBle0lFA-TVCBwA5UX4sSQsKDAcJA8q0DnKNeeCAO3fQvuASBExwI-w
As you can see I balance zerker/soldier/cavalier to achieve 2432 power (plus 250 from npc kills), 2438 armor, 18222hp (plus 2500 from npc kills), 50% crit chance and 209% crit damage, so damage wise isn’t too bad. With protective mantra I can achieve 3k total armor when channeling mantra (equivalent of support guard in knight armor), which channeling MoP will probably take up most of my time when my weapon skills are in CD. The channeling in this mantra build can make it awfully boring in zerg, but 2.7k power, 3k armor, 20k hp, 50% crit chance and 209% crit damage is really really high in mesmer standard, almost the same as what you see in warrior.

Even though it affects dungeon meta, I like the harmonious mantra change to WvW/PvP. It’s basically 2 more traits to get extra condition removal (Mantra of Resolve or mantra of recovery + mender’s purity if already traited in inspiration), since most mesmer builds must have 4 in dueling.

EDIT: Btw MoP will be roughly 1k damage (2k-2.5k crit damage) when you have guard killers and 3+ might. So ideally 3 charge attacks give 6k damage in just 3 seconds. Not bad in tagging or damage imo.

Let’s all play FPS games where the only thing to balance is gun stats!

Or actually accept that there is difference between classes in GW2. A thief can instantly start a battle with backstab (CnD, steal, backstab, 3 clicks) but a warrior can’t start a battle with eviscerate, particularly after the patch.

*at least its an alternative start since bumping against the CD/initiative wall may do us no good :P

If non-stealth thieves won’t get that debuff, then it still works in thieves’ favor and shouldn’t create too much outcry. Only 3 skills can reliably do AoE interrupt without target, and even then you can’t really read thieves’ movement without seeing them. That’s iWave, Chaos storm and focus pull (+1 for self diversion if trait IP), all of which is on high CD. Counter blade from sword has really small projection so it is also hard to aim. Best you can do is guess or count the time, both of which are kind of unreliable. Idk if this is the best change but it sure is interesting and at least its a start :P.

I was playing hotjoin with this build before, was able to hold enemies’ base against 2 opponents (I guess hotjoin is the reason why I see 2 zerk players holding base). Even have couple of occasions where I exhaust them and deliver stomps, though I must admit I can probably perform better in shatter build since I’m just starting interruption build lol. Condition pressure from staff auto, cry of frustration and clone death, while power from phantasm + fury, halting strike + diversion and shatter play-style (blurred frenzy + mind wrack + fury from rune of pack). While tanking damages with extra vitality and toughness, but a bit waste on healing power (only 400 more hp healed). This maybe suitable for your taste

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAsaWlknpRt1oxINcrNipxY6biJHSGQDlskxB-TJxHwADOFAq2fAwTAoYZAA

xDudisx.5914:

Mesmer is already the best/op duelist class if you dont fight with people siting in a point. Thief one of the only natural viable counter is getting a nerf to sword and pistol offhand at the class balance. No need for more thief nerf. Might as well rename the mesmer class for Duelists if it get even more buffs.

I hope by duelist you’re not referring to PU shenanigans. Because you know, Power Block is a heavy 6 trait investment into domination (leaving you to choose between PU or DE). Interruption or shatter play-style don’t exactly have low skill floor (especially in dueling). Maybe phantasm play-style can best thieves in equal skill level due to its great later stage offense, but if thief pressure the mesmers hard enough they still have a lead before phantasm mesmer set up.

It is perfectly logical that when you see Power Block-mesmer all set up with phantasms or clones you’ll want to remove them with shortbow. If you’re still insisted on close range burst with Sw/P at that stage then you SHOULD be risking, not simply face roll due to your so-called counter, because it also takes time, endurance and weapon skills for mesmer to set up properly.

I play thief and Sw/P is definitely not the only viable option against mesmers. Even just hitting shortbow 1 can bounce your arrow between illusions and “clean them out” from a distance (shortbow 2 is more efficient at that with just the requirement to aim), away from clone death damage. Mug + FS/LS + air/fire sigil proc from Sw/D still have massive instant damage against mesmers, and nerf to FS is the one that you should be worry about, not Sw/P. Dancing dagger from dagger offhands is still useful in removing illusions. Although predictable, D/P still have great single target damage. And don’t even get me started on P/D condition build, they snared at clone death due to how precise they can attack in range. P/P…er…not sure why you run that, since it considered sub par in a lot of situations even among the thieves. For lower skill level thieves, all the above thief weapon sets can operate without actually focusing on mesmer’s animation (in contrast, higher skill level thieves are careful with timing). What about Power Block? It requires mesmers to concentrate on thief’s movement (which most have activation time shorter than 1s, see GW2 Wiki), time through or before thieves’ evade frame (as well as consider mesmer’s own animation time), and deliver the interrupt before the skill ends. I’d say that requires much higher skill floor than pulling off normal thief combos. But what interruption reward does mesmers get? Nothing! This is the reason why interruption mesmers prefer CI over PB, because CI can at least immobilize their opponents.

Btw you said Sw/P is mesmer’s hard counter that’s getting nerf with the new patch, how? Black powder was never effective against mesmers, and such nerf will be unlikely to make it worst. If you’re worried about pistol whip, don’t. Because clone death will also be evade-able after the patch. So pistol whip from Sw/P can evade clone death traits, along with its cleaving ability and stun it’s still a hard counter against mesmers. Does that make you less worried? If not then you can always resort to shortbow for clearing out illusions before you shadowstep + pistol whip on the real mesmer.

If you’re worried about shatter, then use your stealth, evade and timing properly. Shattering illusions do not trace stealthed opponents (whether they stealth before or after shatter command is delivered, which I think is a huge flaw in AI), nor do they go through evades. Shatter skills also have relatively longer CD (and thieves laugh at CD), not to mention you can also remove their primary damage source through bouncing arrow/dancing dagger and cleaves.

Kicast.1459:

What is the difference on interupting a thief with and without the trait ?

If the interrupted skill is thief’s weapon skill, then voila! Absolutely no difference. Hence this thread, because some people (perhaps ANet included) deemed having CD on thief’s weapon skill is an atrocity while other professions are having 10s CD.

I think you should have a shout alert before the video Joe. lol

I don’t see the same argument posted on other classes’ immobilizing skills, the only way you counter those projectile immobilize (or instant immobilize in guardian scepter) is through dodging (same goes for iLeap AND iSwap, except iLeap AND iSwap has 2 chances of dodging), reflecting (rarely seen) or LoS (which the new patch will most likely also make iLeap LoS restricted). Yet before the patch people think it is balanced for mesmers to have an immobilize skill with unreliable pathing (can’t adjust to z-plane and failed distance calculation) and kill-able clone (which is easier to kill the further it travels)? Spare me the hypocrisy.

I’ll be honest, on-target summon is a lazy method to address both z-plane (iLeap is guaranteed messed up if go up/down/stairs/angled hills) pathing issue and failed distance calculation that considers going around a small rock as part of the 600 range. Emphasis on the lazy part, but it does, in a way, fix the two main issues I listed above.

As for the traits, I never mentioned putting those 2 Inspiration GM traits into Illusion traitline. All I said is adept trait vigorous revelation, which specifically helps most shatter metas that traited into the Illusion traitline. Is that an insane buff? I don’t think so, because almost all mesmers can achieve half-time vigor up with critical hits anyway. Shatter mesmer also need those dodges more than normal mesmer due to shatter folder demands. So I said it before and I’ll say it again, this specifically helps shatter mesmer (NOT all mesmers) to have closer skill floor to the rest of the metas from both mesmers and non-mesmers, which I assumed is what OP wants. (Edit here: closer skill floor with other metas, not easier.)

However something needs to be done on Inspiration traitline to make it more shatter friendly. When you look at major master inspiration trait there’s absolutely nothing about shatter, and all minor inspiration traits are about phantasm. Do I even need to say the conflicting relationships between shatter and phantasm?

Esplen.3940:

Mesmer v Mesmer:

Mesmer uses Mimic.
Mesmer uses Mimic.
Mesmer gains boon.
Boon gets applied infinitely to both parties.
Instant infinite boons?

You know I could almost think of mini-game like the Asura ball (which is guardian knocking asura for soccer match if you’re interested):

Each team has a ranger (who has rune of centaur and 6 trait into nature magic for 24s of swiftness) and a mesmer (who equipped signet of inspiration, arcane thievery and mimic). The ranger in each team start with Call of the Wild. Then mesmers have to utilize all 3 skill to increase swiftness. Whoever gets to 1 min 30 sec of swiftness first wins.

Anyone?

nvm I’ll show myself out lol.

caveman.5840:

S/d has taken huge nerfs with out compensation !
plz buff S/d before making more changes ….
S/d is a really easy build to take out if u are a condi mesmer …..
sword has cleave …. and u will hit there clones … stacking conditions on u
d/d is single target !…. with lots of condition remove :S !!!

After the patch clone death can be evaded/blinded(still unsure who to blind for this to effect)/blocked so thief’s pistol whip works better on Blackwater mesmer builds now.

I believe the “reflection wall” in our temporal curtain has quite a short height. So harpies’ arrow can still fly through. Some other PvE veterans can answer you more on this matter, but temporal curtain isn’t really the best reflection skill due to this short height. One of the way to address this is, as above said, cast it right before you. The curtain should then be tall enough to block projectile.

Blades of Sabatine.5639:

I was just going to make a post on the state of mez in PvP. Every mez I come across is playing pu or a variant of it. Then I came across this post.

Seriously though no one really welcome PU in tPvP. sPvP maybe, but it still puts more weigh on the rest of the teammates. People run PU in hotjoins because no one really cares about winning the round, most people only see dueling or zerging there.