Axialbloom.8109:

Nike.2631:

SUPERIOR RUNES OF THE TEMPEST

(1) +25 Toughness
(2) -25% Incoming Cripple Duration
(3) +50 Toughness
(4) +15% aura duration
(5) +100 Toughness
(6) When you activate a shout skill, you gain aegis for 8 seconds. (Cooldown: 30 seconds)

That is a pretty horrible rune set.

Why? One of the biggest complaints about overloading is its too dangerous to use it on a squishy light armor class.

Blackdeath.2607:

I can hear the screams of all wvw guards saying GIVE IT TO ME NOW (and probably alot of other professions too)

On the subject of better run speed runes this is idea is beyond fantastic, it would certainly be better not just for guards but everyone in wvw. I myself never take my guard into wvw ever cos even traveler runes were never a good enough option.

Still doesn’t fix the run speed issue for guards in pve but id really love this rune set to be implemented as it would a far better viable run speed rune option for all wvw’ers not just guards.

I really hope Karl takes notice of this brilliant idea.

Thanks . I’ve cobbled together new rune-sets for 7 of the 10 elite specs (I don’t feel like I know the weaknesses of the other three professions well enough to propose something sufficiently optimized for their needs). The intent is definitely to add options all profession would consider and the namesake profession would LOVE.

On a side note: love the animated picture Nike =)

It’s a good example of the level of excitement I want the new Runes to create!

phys.7689:

farm up 150 gold to level crafting
farm up 60-150 gold per peicex6

spend 40+ hours doing the most monotonous activities in game, shoot self in head.

easy

I’m sure there will be groups that cater to your inability to do your homework.

Just not mine.

Because with the constant complaints of channeling Overload being too risky and its inherent vulnerability to not being able to get into place or survive being there, a rune set that gave tempest a way to pop Aegis before overloading, mitigate cripple and raw damage, and do a little more with auras seemed like a nice combination of effects complimenting Tempest needs and within budget for runes.

Tell yourself “They are a team and they all meet in a room to talk every single work day” and it’ll be ok .

nekretaal.6485:

The Guardian forum is the loudest complaining forum here. They were part of 90% of every pvp meta and 100% of every WvW and PvE meta.

I’m gonna nominate Thief, but they all have their… malcontents. I think I can say that without getting banned .

And they never get nerfed.

Not never (old Spirit Weapons, we miss you), but it’s been a long time in relative equilibrium. Personally I’m good with that, but stability makes some people antsy.

The stuff they complain about (their shield) was perfectly useable, just defensive in nature. It got super buffed to a great state & people still complain.

It was ok. There were better choices for almost every situation. The new version (which is still defensive in nature) will actually look pretty solid when compared to some of the new shield skills wizzing around on Revenants and Chronomancers. The sane Guardians try to not make eye contact with the ones still complaining about our shields .

Dragonhunters are close to imba. Compare their low cooldown high duration immobilize to dagger 3. Their longbow has two lines of warding. It’s a stability ripper. Longbow 2 is a short cast sniper shot at long range.

They’ve still got all the defensive stuff (focus5) to avoid getting hit while doing damage, and they are top tier at damage, ranged damage, and condition damage.

Ok the Dragonhunter name kinda sucks, but the class specialization will be great, offering a whole lot at the cost of being slightly worse 1v1 on a capture point.

I’m one of the most dedicated Dragonhunter supporters there is and I do look at the newest round of changes and think… ’hmm. That, that might get nerfed shortly after launch."

I have two necros at 80 – I love the class dearly, but honestly I feel like Reaper hit the ground really solid and has only shaped up even better with relatively small tweaks to timing (and I love the shouts being more reliable baseline and less of a ‘can I find/manage 5 targets?’ gamble.)

Kitty.1502:

Well I do like this suggestion though maybe make instead of converted into precision into ferocity.

Thanks . I felt that Precision was a more flexible choice that would serve hybrid and even some condition-damage builds (Ranger has some proc-on-crit condition traits) while still being desirable for direct power-based damage.

insanemaniac.2456:

hmm..
things i dont like about this set:

• scrapper isnt a condi focus :/
• condi damage + flat power damage, while not mutually exclusive, do not synergize well with each other. could fix by switching the stat boni to power or the damage bonus to condi damage. even cele builds focus on one or the other type of damage while the other type is just along for the ride. plus “damage with active companion” is recycled.

• 10% stab duration is plain weaksauce. 15-20% boon duration, or 30-45% selected duration.

That will NEVER happen on a (2) slot. The scale of benefits that goes there is pretty plainly mapped out in existing runes.

• the 4th bonus… just doesnt do it for me. first, your vit will constantly change as you get and lose might. second, attack stats feeding into defense stats doesnt happen, and for good reason. the other way around is fairly common, but also consider that if you straight up fed vit into condi… then you miss out on a nice synergy with toughness->condi and adaptive armor, even tho that specific bonus is already on a different runeset.

Tinkering with the first concern may resolve the last. My felling is the Engineer/Scrapper has enough HP threshold abilities that a boost to Vitality should make those thresholds easier to manage.

Revised set up in intial post shortly.

((Of the 6 of these I’ve done, my feel for Scrapper gameplay is probably the weakest, so I’m happy to tune it))

Tommyknocker.6089:

I’d swap out precision for power as I already use decimate defenses. Instead of shambling horrors, I would prefer to see a chill on hit similar to grenth runes (makes being hit by ranged backfire on them occasionally).

The +25% movement speed is always nice but I feel it would be a bit to OP along with the chill duration, but I would most likely carry an extra set of armor just for that bonus.

Power seemed a little too perfect, but a good alternative for the 1/3/5 bonus. I think Grenth runes are probably already a good fit for reapers looking for chill on being hit (with higher duration buff than this set). Speed and Traveler runes have been kittene around the neck of the two slow professions long enough — adding some variety to the runes culminating with move speed helps a LOT of open-world PvP builds and hopefully we’ll see something along these lines .

Jski.6180:

For as fast as you can apply auras i think 5 sec may be too long of an icd. Look at the shout runes they have no icd for there effect. You must make aura condition removal at least near the same level as the shout runs.

I like to see a rune set that gives you + when your under the effect of an aura much like runes of str gives you higher dmg when under the effect of might.

Shouts have substantial cooldowns built in so the secondary effect doesn’t need an ICD nearly as much. As you say, auras can come much faster and that’s why an ICD is needed to restrain it’s effect.

‘While you have an aura’ is an interesting trigger.

…for the discriminating collector of scrap…

SUPERIOR RUNES OF THE SCRAPPER

(1) +25 Vitality
(2) 3% of Vitality is converted to Precision
(3) +50 Vitality
(4) +15% stability duration
(5) +100 Vitality
(6) +10% stability duration, +5% damage while you have an active companion.

((suggestion for new profession-complimentary runes for HoT))

Every would-be Raven-shaman everywhere squeeed out at once.

My Norn Necro will be climbing over the broken bodies of many foes to get this.

nekretaal.6485:

Did you just make those runes up? They look real but I was hoping for something better.

Just suggesting something that uses existing parts and should dovetail into Reaper mechanics nicely .

I’m certainly open to suggestions as long as they fit within the scale/patterns of existing runes.

Kitty.1502:

Nike.2631:

…May the stars guide you!…

Making the rune up or has it been confirmed? if so link!

Sorry, just suggesting one. There has been some vague mention of there being new Rune-sets coming out with HoT, likely inspired by the 10 new professions. Just offering my take .

I’ve been designing them for each of the Especs I feel reasonably familiar with. Trying to take existing effects or close iterations and combining them into a tuned package.

Yeah? Well this fan boi PUT THE GYRO CHANGES IN THE THREAD THEY’RE READING.

Seriously. You complain they don’t pay enough attention to this board and then look baffled when random post #4031 isn’t being looked at it this week when there’s an official feedback thread running.

…May the stars guide you!…

SUPERIOR RUNES OF THE DRUID

(1) +25 Healing Power
(2) Gain up to 400 Toughness while reviving an ally, based on your level.
(3) +50 Healing Power
(4) After using a healing skill you gain resistance for 3 seconds. (Cooldown: 10 seconds)
(5) +100 Healing Power
(6) 7% of Healing Power is converted to Precision.

((suggestion for new profession-complimentary runes for HoT))

Raiding is about coming prepared. It’s about gathering people who want to win and are willing to work at it.

The threshold of difficulty for amassing a set of Ascended gear is trivial. It takes some time. It’ takes some mats. If you can’t be bothered to do that, you’re not the ‘willing to work at it’ type and if we get genuinely hard raids that take a while to master, I want people in my group accustomed to undertakings that take more than a week.

Levetty.1279:

Nike.2631:

Um… I’m planning to kill things with the tools the new spec is offering.

I’m sure somebody will stand afk for you.

Being CC’d to death only looks like they’re AFK .

Gee, do you see the core Engineer stuff getting tons of attention? No? Same thing with ALL the professions. The new lines are up in the air and are getting a lot of Dev focus. The existing lines and tools are not.

If you insist on it being persecution of your favorite profession when it’s obviously how all of them are being treated, expect to be rightfully ignored. This is not ‘fix the core professions’ month. This is ‘have a sexy expansion launch’ month and thinking the focus will be anywhere else is silly.

…Death walks amongst you. Well, more of a loping jog, really…

SUPERIOR RUNES OF THE REAPER

(1) +25 Precision
(2) +10% Chill duration
(3) +50 Precision
(4) 25% chance when struck to summon a shambling horror. (Cooldown: 90 seconds)
(5) +100 Precision
(6) +15% chill duration, +25% move speed

((suggestion for new profession-complimentary runes for HoT))

Wolfric.9380:

Superior rune of the witch:

1.) +25 condition damage
2.) +10%condition duration
3.) +50 condition damage
4.) + 20% Aura duration
5.) +100 condition damage
6.) Auras aplied to you remove a condition.

Rules are clear the number 2 slot only gives +5% condition duration (Lyssa, Mad King, Lich).

6 needs an internal cooldown and to matching existing text on Rune of radiance should read~

(6) When you receive an aura, you remove a condition (cooldown 5 seconds)

Otherwise I like it a lot .

(1) +25 Condition Damage
(2) +5% Condition Duration
(3) +50 Condition Damage
(4) + 20% Aura Duration
(5) +100 Condition Damage
(6) When you receive an aura, you remove a condition (cooldown 5 seconds)

Vennyhedgie.5369:

…Also, something affecting traps might be in order as well (something like making traps burn so that rangers could consider the rune set as well).

I suggested something similar in the original proposal for Superior Runes of the Trapper and they shifted it to self-affecting benefits. I don’t think the tech is there to alter trap-entities in that fashion.

I’m not adverse to the 1/3/5 benefit being Precision. That would feed Empowered Might nicely.

…for all your get in there and stay in there (and blow them up!) needs…

SUPERIOR RUNES OF THE TEMPEST

(1) +25 Toughness
(2) -25% Incoming Cripple Duration
(3) +50 Toughness
(4) +15% aura duration
(5) +100 Toughness
(6) When you activate a shout skill, you gain aegis for 8 seconds. (Cooldown: 30 seconds)

((suggestion for new profession-complimentary runes for HoT))

…along with whipping a staff around wukong-style I really want to be yelling “your martial-arts are pig-dung!” at the screen…

SUPERIOR RUNES OF THE DAREDEVIL

(1) +25 Condition Damage
(2) +10% weakness duration
(3) +50 Condition Damage
(4) 25% chance when struck to inflict weakness for 5 seconds. (Cooldown: 20 seconds)
(5) +100 Condition Damage
(6) 7% of Condition Damage is converted to Toughness.

…and now for something completely different…

SUPERIOR RUNES OF THE DRAGONHUNTER

(1) +25 Power
(2) +10% cripple duration
(3) +50 Power
(4) 25% chance when struck to inflict cripple for 5 seconds. (Cooldown: 20 seconds)
(5) +100 Power
(6) +15% cripple duration, +25% move speed

((suggestion for new profession-complimentary runes for HoT))

Um… I’m planning to kill things with the tools the new spec is offering.

Keep in mind fixing QoL issues for a new profession is not on the same plane as fixing QoL issues for an established profession. Like it or not the game works, and that means those fixes would be nice but they aren’t make or break issues or in the new-and-shiny spotlight. Let the various kid brothers do their job luring in new players. If the Dev presence dries up again after showing that they can manage to get work done while dropping in every other week or so, THEN I’ll be right there handing out torches and pitchforks.

In the meantime I look at my favorite trait in the game — Battle Presence — and have zero doubt I can build a Guardian that will be highly sought after in Raids. That we haven’t stretched our healing muscles in a while doesn’t mean we don’t already have tools to be competitive.

Alent.4780:

I did, and I agree – I just don’t think it is fair to say that we are “in a good spot”. Not saying you are the only one guilty of it – trust me I agree with all of your points about additional choices and the halfhearted shield changes. I’m just saying that most other classes have more than viable build, which means to me that Guardians are most definitely not in a good spot.

I’m not “Guilty” of anything. That is the consistent refrain from the only people in a position to know, and its observably true from the player side as Guardians are welcome in any playmode.

We are at least totally on the same page about promoting a variety of competitive builds. Let’s hope Karl shares that particular zeal in and amongst the many balls he’s being asked to juggle .

(If you think the shield changes are “half-hearted” I suggest playing it more . With the traitable synergy with AoE aegis and having a mobile four-second shelter that converts to a heal it’s practically a new weapon.)

gavyne.6847:

If you want to talk shafted, visit tempest, daredevils, and dragon hunters.

Dragonhunters are fine, thanks. In fact I’m kinda shocked the forums didn’t explode with finger-pointing envy when they got the best +damage% trait IN THE GAME a couple days ago.

Alent.4780:

Nike.2631:

The profession as a whole IS in a good spot – and that ’s a mark against buffing the profession as a whole.

Alright, can we stop with this? Clearly the devs do not think Guardians are in a good spot or they wouldn’t be fixing the issues we have been bringing up (or at least other devs for other professions). Tweaking spirit weapons to fall in line with Scrapper (or the AA chain to fall in line with the Rev) isn’t a buff, its a quality of life update to ensure we aren’t relegated to the halls of the Durmond Priory’s “forgotten classes” section.

Did you not read the very next sentence? Or maybe not understand changes to the profession as a whole is separate from changes to individual pieces of the profession? Or how about virtually the only feedback we’ve had outside of the game itself has been the observation the “the class is in a good place” and their observable behavior continues to reflect that? They’ve been fixing WHAT ISSUES exactly? Because the wonderful improvements to shield would fit exactly in the paradigm I’m describing – improvements that bring up less competitive builds without touching the meditation Guardian and burst-burns.

The profession as a whole IS in a good spot – and that ’s a mark against buffing the profession as a whole.

Spirit Weapons are in a dismal spot. Improving them, likely with the same batch of changes Engineer spirit weapo- er, Gyros! are getting, namely cooldown starts on summon, faster speed, and more durability will likely give the Guardian and Dragonhunter new competitive choices rather than push our strongest builds over the line.

Balance passes are still an ongoing thing but we’re not seeing a lot of changes to any core professions simultaneous with the release of Heart of Thorns. Ranger actually sees a little more than most with new pets becoming available.

Got some changes coming and it’s nothing but buffs !~

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Hey all,

Since the third beta weekend there’s been a lot of great feedback – thanks!

• Grace of the Land: This trait has been re-worked. Instead of its former behavior, allies affected by your celestial avatar abilities gain 3% damage and condition damage increase for 8 seconds. This buff stacks 5 times.

While of slight interest to offense-minded druids, this won’t displace Ancient Seed as the core of the Mad-Seed build.

• Glyph of Alignment: Increased the weakness and cripple duration on this skill from 3s to 5s. Reduced the cast damage by 66%. This skill now applies 3 stacks of poison.

Nice. A great change for hybrid or hybrid-leaning-towards-condi builds. More poison gives more coverage to the bleeds.

• Celestial Avatar Form: Entering this form now has a 10s CD. Charging of Astral force by healing has been reduced by 40%. Charging of Astral force by outgoing strikes has been increased by 200%. You now retain half your current astral force if you decide to break form early.

This is glorious for offensive Druids, especially with Druidic Clarity as a condition wipe. 10 second cooldown for full condi-wipe while keeping half your astral force as you leave the form almost as soon as possible in many cases? Yes, yes, and YES.

Soon… Soon it will be harvest time…

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Hey all,

Since the third beta weekend there’s been a lot of great feedback – thanks!

Just looking at the changes that affect offensive/CC Druids like the Mad-Seed Druid

• Grace of the Land: This trait has been re-worked. Instead of its former behavior, allies affected by your celestial avatar abilities gain 3% damage and condition damage increase for 8 seconds. This buff stacks 5 times.

While of slight interest to offense-minded druids, this won’t displace Ancient Seed as the core of the Mad-Seed build.

• Glyph of Alignment: Increased the weakness and cripple duration on this skill from 3s to 5s. Reduced the cast damage by 66%. This skill now applies 3 stacks of poison.

Nice. A great change for hybrid or hybrid-leaning-towards-condi builds. More poison gives more coverage to the bleeds.

• Celestial Avatar Form: Entering this form now has a 10s CD. Charging of Astral force by healing has been reduced by 40%. Charging of Astral force by outgoing strikes has been increased by 200%. You now retain half your current astral force if you decide to break form early.

This is glorious for offensive Druids, especially with Druidic Clarity as a condition wipe. 10 second cooldown for full condi-wipe while keeping half your astral force as you leave the formal almost as soon as possible in many cases? Yes, yes, and YES.

Soon… Soon it will be harvest time…

Eirh.1439:

Some really good changes in my opinion. Looks like Druid is going to be a mandatory class in raids.

My money is that a mantra-heals Mesmer and several Guardian builds will be just as desirable in ‘the healer slot’. And definitely more desirable than a second Druid. Big green numbers are nice, but there’s a lot of secondary effects on the table for any serious/thoughtful discussion of raid composition.

runeblade.7514:

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

• Celestial Avatar Form: Skills that heal have had their base heals reduced by 15-25% and increased their healing coefficients from 100-145%. This should leave base heals solid while really rewarding players who elect to use healing power stats.

I dislike this.

And yet it is necessary.

I feel that this will make cleric druids way more tanky than it already is.

Zealot’s/Keeper’s is tanky?

((shrug)) I wasn’t planning on running staff on my daredevil because staff’s low number of hits per action doesn’t make it a great weapon in conjunction with Assassin’s Reward.

sicsempertyrannis.3510:

Yikes, there are a lot of ignorant statements in this thread. I’m hoping that Karl doesn’t take suggestions from people who don’t understand the meta across all three major game modes.

Well that’s so vague as to be utterly meaningless.

Labjax.2465:

To forgive a friend for incompetence is easy. Forgiving a stranger for it is a lot harder.

So true. I find my blood pressure takes much less of a beating if I approach pug-dungeon runs from the standpoint “Everyone here is trying as best they are able”

I have my dunce-hat-moments and technical difficulties too. Performance is the sum of many factors, but as long as the intent to succeed is there, I can work with the rest.

My standards when building raid groups may be a little higher because the number of people whose time you can waste is higher, and within that arena I consider getting your gear in order a component of intent to succeed.

Its going to be interesting to see how many more words get wasted on a done deal after HoT releases, and then after raids become available. Because right now this thread and the others infected with the same conversation on 4 fronts are going to reveal themselves as a tremendous waste of effort. It’s baffling really how hard people are engaging in it.

This system is NOT GOING TO CHANGE until it’s been proven a failure. No matter how much anyone want’s to prove it a failure before it’s even happened.

Doesn’t seem like something they’d be hiding under a hat until now, so expect ‘no’.

They’ll likely be looked at as part of a standard balance pass rather than part of the Expansion release package anyway.

First, F2P and newer players need something to do.

Second, skipping out on the raw buggy-ness of the HoT maps for a few weeks might be a good idea even without a festival to amuse us.

More easily than one-in-45,000-drops and more easily than I-could-craft-it-myself have a WIDE range of possibilities between them. Keep in mind Black Lion key drops have also been made more frequent. So much so no single human user will ever be able to tell the difference.

You’re deranged if you think crafting them will be obsoleted by ascended gear boxes raining from the sky. They will never topple their carefully constructed economy that way.

Given we’ve been told the matchmaking deliberately ignores the class-specific rating we know it complies because you might change class after the team is formed, I don’t see how it could possibly expected to evaluate someone’s value based on what class that someone is playing. They’re throwing that knowledge out on purpose .

Just gonna copy this here and grounds for discussion about Guardian spirit weapons…

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Gyros are going to be affected by a systemic change that should increase their survivability quite a lot. In addition to that several changes to how Gyros follow you and their rate of travel were made – they shouldn’t zig-zag randomly about anymore even if you’re not moving and try to stay pretty close to you while you are moving.
…

• Several Gyros received increased movement speeds to help keep them close to you as you move and some skill changes to make them more effective at their jobs, like increased range on their abilities.

• Gyros now start their cooldown upon summon rather than upon gyro death. … This should encourage players to keep them around to gain their benefits for longer.

Well wishes,
~ Irenio

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

’allo fellow Engineers,

Gyros are going to be affected by a systemic change that should increase their survivability quite a lot. In addition to that several changes to how Gyros follow you and their rate of travel were made – they shouldn’t zig-zag randomly about anymore even if you’re not moving and try to stay pretty close to you while you are moving.
…

• Several Gyros received increased movement speeds to help keep them close to you as you move and some skill changes to make them more effective at their jobs, like increased range on their abilities.

• Gyros now start their cooldown upon summon rather than upon gyro death. … This should encourage players to keep them around to gain their benefits for longer.

Well wishes,
~ Irenio

Why yes… that does look like a passable recipe for fixing SPIRIT WEAPONS…

It’s like an election except for the part where its NOT an election.

At all.

The Devs will act as they think best utterly without regard to the noise that comes parading through here.

I’ve seen meters used responsibly, and I’ve seen them made a tool to justify insanity. Either way, I don’t see them being consistent with a game that won’t show you a monster’s actual hp. Even more so in a game that tries at every turn to make all players on the same server allies and not competitors.

I’m going to point out that a frost field probably meshes better with Runes of the Elementalist. And until there are Runes of the Tempest, I’d like for those to be a desirable choice .

Can I ask why “the majority” one way or the other remotely matters?

It’s not a vote. Not even with wallets for the most part because of sunk cost behavior at the core of MMOs. The number of people who have a preference is going to be much, much larger than the number of people outraged enough to quit.

Could we maybe skip the appeal to the masses when A) no one actually has data and B) ANet will act in ANet’s best interest to the best of their understanding regardless?

No arguing 25% speed would be fun . Maybe that aspect will carry the day.

I just tend to think the case for it is stronger based on how it could change/improve the Guardian and DH experience without comparisons to other classes. I dunno if a weird and somewhat troubling minor (Defender’s Dogma) is something we can trade for it.

Huh… I wonder if we could get it with something like~

• Hunter’s Stride (Master minor trait). You gain +25% movement speed while all of your Virtues are ready.

~as a way of really confining it to overland travel and the earliest stages of a fight.

Looking forward to hearing your thought on Hunters Ward (cages!). That skill is beautiful, exciting, and just one-too-many-damage-ticks from being practical too!