Guild Wars 2

So, we try knocking Vorpp out now, but he has an anti knock-out shield. Faolain takes on his golem, and bests it…only for one of the newborns in the cage to die. Canach (in his pre-Secret of Southsun appearance) warns us that they’ve been connected to the golems, while Vorpp notes that their kind’s life does wonders for their power levels. He also now summons reinforcements to find Caithe, also equipped with the same shields.

But it turns out malfunctioning generators can short out his shield, which Caithe knows how to sabotage.

On the way, we can get a look at our boss for this mission….Vorpp?!

So….he’s obviously not going to die here. We’ll just knock him out, free the sprouts, and go. Right?

Nope.

Caithe: “Let our people go, or we will destroy this entire place.”

Vorpp: “Who let this creature out of its cage? Someone’s fired!”

Faolain: “You monster. You’re dead!”

Vorpp: “Oh. Security? Security!”

(It should also be noted that Vorpp has an Inquest scepter, which seems off since the Inquest shouldn’t even exist at this point…I think. Also the containment tubes have the Inquest symbols on them, though that’s the reused map of the current Inquest base. In any case, why they didn’t just give him a Glyphic/Peacemaker scepter is odd…unless he turns out to be an Inquest later.)

Now this is where things get annoying. We have two panels to activate. We’re not timed at least like with the last two, but there are two patrolling golems and one stationed in the middle, with a myriad of rotating lab workers.

So, we take down three, but the one near the golem sees us, triggering an alarm. Sigh.

Fun fact: If you have runes that summon allies, like the Golemancer rune, they still work here. Heh.

Well, killing them all allows us to use the switches now, so let’s go.

So, Caithe tries to figure out the console while Faolain looks in:

Faolain: “What do you suppose they’re doing to them?”

Caithe: “Bad things. Let me see if I can figure out this console.”

(Caithe’s apparently been around asuran tech before, enough to know what a console is and how to work it at least.)

Faolain: “There’s…no. Do you see? Bodies, everywhere…What’s taking you so long?”

(No, Caithe can’t see, she busy trying to work the unfamiliar console without any assistance from you.)

Caithe: “Almost got it.”

Faolain: “They’re killing them! We have to go now!”

(Again, good thing no guards are nearby to guard the console or overhear this.)

Caithe: “Thorns! I can’t open it from here. There are two more panels that control this door.”

Faolain: “I’m going to kill every last one of these monsters!”

(Well, her rage is justified here at least.)

Caithe: “We can’t go charging in. Our best bet is to sneak in and take them by surprise.”

As we pass into the next hallway, Faolain warns us that the golem could detect us even in stealth if we get too close. We just need to activate the two switches quickly, which is simple as long as we’re quick. The golem then shuts down once that field door is opened…for some reason.

Just a quick ways over to the next console, then.

After killing the two guards, it’s time for a stealth section. We go into super stealth mode to knock out a guard that wasn’t there earlier, and unlock the forcefield to get in.

So, we remain in stealth as long as we don’t attack or do anything that reveals us while in the asurans’ view (shown by those white shapes on the ground in front of each one) If we mess up, we have to kill everyone around before being able to stealth again.

However, this one’s simple enough to start, and we can get away with knocking out just two of them (which get stealthed too, so no one sees that of course).

So Caithe pulls off some Super Cutscene Shadowleap action to get them to a spot atop the complex that isn’t accessible from the ground level, and encounter two guards to eliminate.

We also get introduced to Caithe’s skill set.

1: Basic dagger combo, but every third hit is a Basilisk Venom hit.
2: An odd fusion between Heartseeker and the old FGS Fiery Rush. Inflicts poison and hits quite hard if you can get a target stuck in a corner/on a wall to hit with the whole thing.
3: A triple Dancing Blossom that reflects projectiles and evades. This one’s a bit annoying to use since Caithe dodges around in a triangular pattern that you don’t have much, if any control over.
4: Basically the #4 dagger skill for thieves, except immobilize instead of cripple.
5: Whirling Axe, except with daggers.
6: The evasive heal skill for thieves.
7: An evasive dash. Kinda like Warrior’s #5 greatsword charge, except evasive instead offensive.
8: Toxic Caltrops, which are regular ones, except now torment on top of bleeding and cripple. Very very useful and damaging.
9: Scorpion Wire: Same as the regular version.
0: A stealth skill that grants you 8 seconds of reveal-immune stealth. This is Caithe’s only stealth skill, which allows her to use her stealth attack, a teleporting backstab.

While the skillset seems (and is somewhat) good, it doesn’t all mesh together well, and certain movement parts on some of the skills can be annoying to deal with. There is also the issue of no stunbreaks, as we will encounter enemies with stuns and knockdowns. Her stats are based somewhat on your own, which could be a problem for certain professions (Rangers..).

And finally, Caithe has no downed state, nor does Faolain know how to revive. So, try not to die.

We “rejoin” Caithe as she and Faolain are scouting the same facility. Faolain agrees they should sneak in instead of head on fighting.

But now, time for another conversation:

Caithe: “Hold up a second. Why are you so interested in Cadeyrn and his dissenters?”

(Is this really the time for this Caithe? I mean, you two are preparing to infiltrate an asuran complex to rescue the secondborn. Luckily no guards are nearby to hear any of this, I’m sure.)

Faolain: “It’s simple, really. From the moment we awakened, our mother has molded us into an idealized version of nobility.”

“She doesn’t see or care who we are, so long as we match her ideal of us.”

(This would be an interesting point…if we actually saw an instance of the Pale Tree being callous to her own children like that. We never really explore the Pale Tree’s way of thinking much in the game as we do with other named characters. But she does state that she cares for her children. Some, like the Firstborn and our Sylvari character do take higher priority than most, but she’s never shown to be outright nonchalant to them. The revelation that she’s also protected them from being corrupted up to this point shows that she’s really doing all she can to protect them as well, and she certainly hasn’t tried to force her children to stick around if they don’t want to, or the Soundless wouldn’t be allowed to exist.)

Caithe: “I’ve felt it too. The pressure to be perfect.”

Faolain: “Yes. And the pain that comes with failing to live up to her expectations. Why can’t she just love us unconditionally?”

(Again, when has this ever happened? We’ve never seen an instance of this. At least I think. Besides, we’ve never seen the Pale Tree stress being perfect, or punishing sylvari for not matching up to her expectations.)

“She claims to believe all weeds and blossoms are equal. Yet she tries to turn us all into blossoms.”

(Well, I presume she wants them to be the best they can be. Are you implying you’d rather be a weed, Faolain? I mean, can’t you just talk to her yourself anyways? Faolain’s a firstborn, so she could just voice her concerns with their Mother, talk this out? Although, Cadeyrn apparently tries that later..)

Caithe: “I love you, just as you are.”

(…Why do they love each other, though? Part of why I liked Caithe was her relationship with Faolain, or at least what was implied to be their relationship before Faolain went bad. But, from what we’ve seen so far, I can’t really understand why Caithe loves Faolain at all. We don’t really see a nicer side to her, like Caithe said she had. She disagrees with all the other Firstborn, accused them of trying to mold the new sprouts, and harasses Wynne just because she thinks she has knowledge of something powerful. To me, it seems like she was kind of bad even back before joining the Court later.)

Faolain: “We belong together. C’mon, my darling. Let’s go rescue our sprouts.”

Caithe: “Put your hand on my arm.”

Faolain: “But if your way fails, we’ll do it my way.”

(Faolain almost cuts Caithe off with this line. She also sounds…sinister considering these are her pre-Court days. It’s almost if she hopes Caithe’s method fails. I take it her way involves wanton destruction and mass murder?)

Out of memory lane, we fill in Marjory the gist of what happened, and that we need to go to Metrica Province for the next memory seed.

Our journey takes us to the Inquest Complex in Hexane Regrade. Marjory will watch our back while we view the vision.

Agreed. Two cliffhangers and yet no answers towards either of them. Disappointing.

So, two cliffhangers, basically no answers to questions dragged up by said cliffhangers, and having to wait yet another month before we hopefully get some.

Disappointing.

dsslive.8473:

There’s always the possibility that Mender Serimon is also a secondborn, but awoke earlier than Ceara.

And yet not only is he not shown, he probably wouldn’t have his clothes yet (the other secondborn didn’t either, after all) like he did in the short story, and since the Wardens haven’t been established yet, it’s a fair guess that the Menders probably weren’t either.

And, if they were in fact around, whoever wrote the story either forgot to address that, was too rushed, or couldn’t be bothered. So much wasted potential in this story.

Seeds of Truth Sins:

- Not showing us all the firstborn. They had a chance to reveal the remaining three, and give us only one.

- Ceara. Plain and simple. Just why?

- They show some Secondborn like Cadeyrn, Fiana, and Canach, but not Laranthir or Amarantha, nor do they introduce any other ones that could show up later. And they do nothing really interesting with these Secondborn to justify their presence, besides Cadeyrn hating Ventari’s Tablet, obviously hinting to things we know (or should) by now.

- We learn nothing about Malomedies’s encounter with the asura other than “he was lucky to survive”. Show, don’t tell.

- When our character explains what they see to Marjory, they don’t explain it well or fully.

- Stealth sections in an RPG setting. To their credit, this one is better done than…well, any of the other ones to my experience, but getting that achievement for not getting detected is an utter pain.

- The Caithe/Faolain relationship is just not believable to me. They once again just tell you that these two love each other. At least with Kasmeer and Marjory, they tried to show them starting their relationship in Season 1.

Also, Faolain supposedly joined the Nightmare Court some time later, yet we find here that she’s already interested in Cadeyrn and his proto-Nightmare Court now.

- Caithe assisting Faolain and the proto-Nightmare Court in slaughtering an entire centaur village. No, neither naivete nor her supposed love for Faolain justify her just helping her kill them off instead of trying to break up the fight.

- Faolain ditches Caithe to go after Wynne, leaving her to fight a centaur boss that just set two proto-Nightmare courtiers on fire with a wind wall!

- Yet another cliffhanger ending, without resolving anything from the previous cliffhanger and digging up more questions.

- Wynne’s a firstborn who we don’t see at all outside of this chapter, and she conveniently had Caithe’s current hairstyle. Gee, I wonder if she’s gonna die?

- Oh and finally, the achievements just to get Wynne’s Locket (Sinister Ascended amulet) are among the most annoying ones yet.

So….a story that doesn’t live up to any potential it had, making Caithe look like an idiot, showing that Faolain was apparently always pretty evil even before joining up with the Nightmare Court later, and yet another cliffhanger with no answers. And the replayability is just for the achievement rewards, which are a whole level of tedium and frustration to themselves.

This and Tangled Paths are such a huge dip from the story that was building up from Echoes of the Past. The previous stuff wasn’t too amazing, but at least it wasn’t too bad (barring the Dragon’s Reach Part 1 open world issues). Now, I’m left wondering if the last episode will actually give something for me to care about.

Only attemptable near the end of the instance. No Reset/Retry motes like the ones in Glint’s lair if you slip up. And while the wind walls are simple (unless you’re in Challenge Mode), the sand pools can be spawned from the boss and the elementals when they die, have no red circles indicating when they’re about to spawn, and linger on the map making things harder to avoid as the fight goes on.

This has to be one of the most frustrating ones yet, and having to redo the instance up to that point for every slip up is such a waste.

Oh…and just 3 Bandit Chest keys as a reward is lousy for the effort it takes. All I really want now is that Wynn’s Locket, yet you apparently thought us having to go through all those annoying achievements was necessary. It’s not fun.

Turns out Elementalists can’t use their conjured weapons either.

Beast Sos.1457:

I’d have to disagree. The Dragon fight from what I remember was not hard at all. I didnt go down once with the challenge mote up.

My issue isn’t dying. It’s that I can’t do any lasting damage to the boss, for reasons I’ve already explained.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

So you are saying that because you’re not able to beat the challenge, it must be removed?

No. I’m saying these should not be cheap gimmick “get in a party or you have no chance” challenges.

Simple solution to the Shadow of the Dragon one: Make it so players can get the pheromones by being near a Mordrem or Tendril as it dies.

Togonn Windmane: Don’t make so many cheap wind walls of death. Then again, Caithe having a better skill set and not being as fragile as she is might help too.

For the records, I’ve soloed the hardmode in the Grove and I’m going to solo the next hardmodes if I feel like it.

Then I’m sure you won’t mind me asking for a link to a video of you soloing that Challenge Mode to prove it.

That would also remove the chance at getting rewards from doing them with alts again, which includes certain items necessary in the Vine/Mawdrey backpiece set. So….please no.

Erukk.1408:

I’m not sure about the Dodgy Crowd one, but I agree they need to put Retry Motes with all the boss style battle, because having to restart and redo the entire mission, plus all the unskippable dialogue, just because you were 1sec too late on whacking Vorpp or Togonn summoned a sand pool beneath you is highly frustrating.

This +50. Those missions aren’t fun as is. Redoing them over for these annoying achievements just adds to the tedium/frustration.

Wynne being dead is pretty much a near guarantee at this point. A Firstborn we’ve never seen at any point before or after this, who just happens to have Caithe’s current hairstyle? 2 death flags already.

They just either add something annoying, or scale whatever’s there to just be over the top.

Shadow of the Dragon: Pods spawn that heal the boss, and those vine things that try to grab you from that one mission in Iron Marches are back. You need the Mordrem pheromones (also from a mission in Iron Marches) to damage the pods.

Problem is, the only way to get the pheromone buff is to let the vines grab you. Apparently getting the pheromone from killing the vines or other Mordrem out at the time made too much sense, despite that being how it worked in the mission that originally introduced this mechanic.

Between that, breaking loose to attack the pods, and avoiding everything else, the boss is healing, and there can be to four pods out at a time, and they respawn faster than you can destroy them alone.

As a result, the boss is nigh unkillable alone. The only answer is seemingly to get a group. Bad design. Living Story acheivements should be something that can be soloed with enough skill or know how. Throwing together a bunch of cheap gimmicks that force me to need a party is stupid.

While I can’t remember the others well so far, the other one that’s stuck out to me is the latest one in No Refuge, where the boss’s sand pools and wind walls constantly pass by, more often than one can dodge, and do ridiculous damage. Oh, and if you’re playing as Caithe, you don’t even get downed. You just die.

And all those mobs at the beginning are just excessive.

You might as well rename it Cheap Gimmick mode: No fun here.

Sigh…this is why we can’t have nice things. Fools keep asking for worse.

I know this may come as a shock to whoever made the Meeting the Asura mission, but believe it or not, stealth sections and (MMO)RPGs don’t mix well.

Did you also like the utterly unnecessary cliffhanger at the end while they didn’t even resolve the previous one?

FrizzFreston.5290:

It’s been known for a while that Ceara is Secondborn.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/Interesting-things-in-Scarlet-s-Room-Spoilers/4194939

Oh wow. One post in one thread. So sorry I didn’t know to look there for confirmation on that. Sigh.

Talonblaze.3175:

Is it bad I didn’t even notice it was her?

Not at all. I envy your ability to pass her over completely.

Elspeth Tiriel.9243:

I especially LOVED playing as Caithe and meeting all of the Firstborn, that was sick.

You don’t meet all the Firstborn. Riannoc wasn’t present, along with two others that remain unknown so far. Wynne’s the only new one we learn about.

Eh, no. The Firstborn are discussing how to guide the Secondborn at that point. Also, that mender that Ceara speaks to isn’t present, nor are any others. Inconsistent, plain and simple. But that’s the Invasive Weed for you. Shoved in there even when she isn’t wanted.

Right after that however, a newly awakened comes close.

“Elders! I bring grave news. Please, listen!”

So a group of secondborn were exploring beyond the Mother Tree’s roots when they encountered small imp-like beings, which Trahearne deduces to be asura, referencing Malomedies’s encounter with them. The scout tracked them northwest and overheard them mentioning “Metrica” before losing their trail and coming back for help.

Trahearne asks Caithe and Faolain to scout ahead, the two having the most experience in the wild, and says they can’t allow the secondborn to be killed by another race’s curiosity, with which Faolain agrees.

Right, who’s left?

Dagonet’s worried that they won’t be able to care for all the newborns. Okay.

Wynne feels that Faolain’s being indifferent to her own kind. Caithe insists that she just feels they should have the right to choose. Wynne says that they all believe in that choice too, but as they’ve been around longer, what harm is there in teaching them the better path? Caithe’s still skeptical of this however.

And finally Faolain, who thinks they should all just agree to do the best for them that they can, and that trying to be perfect only leads to failure. Reasonable enough.

And with that, the meeting adjorns. Faolain decides however to get Wynne aside for a moment to ask her about the secret, but Wynne denies this. Faolain presses harder, and Wynne dodges the question, saying she’s going to the Silverwastes to research Ventari.

Next up, the luminaries.

Aife…well, her dialogues not interesting. Sorry. It’ll be there though.

Niamh thinks they should form a defense force to keep their home safe, obviously the prelude to forming the Wardens.

Kahedins is worried that with all the newborns whose dreams he’s trying to help with, that some may misinterpret their Wyld Hunts and go astray.

Malomedies laments the deaths of three of their newly awakened. Caithe once again dismisses this with “that’s life, at least now we know we can die” nonsense. He also expresses worry about Riannoc…and we know how that ends. Sigh.

Well, time to talk to the other firstborn—well, the ones that are here, anyways.

As I mentioned earlier, three of the firstborn aren’t here. One is Riannoc, who is presumably out there with Caladbolg at this time. The other two are ones that remain yet unidentified at all, with no explanation as to where they are. So…they had a chance to show the remaining firstborn we hadn’t seen, and only came up with one. Wasted potential here.

Well then, first off with Trahearne.

Trahearne thinks they should help the newly awakened with their knowledge, as their race is unique, but young and vulnerable to the many dangers out there. Caithe mostly dismisses his concerns with “predators will prey” and “you think too much, Trahearne”, but his worry of their race being wiped out by a strong threat does get to her.

He thinks that as long as she keeps that thought close, it’ll guide her to do the right thing by their people for the rest of her life…

(..by withholding important information and going against even her mother’s wishes. Sure.)

So, we’ve learned that these are all secondborn around us. That means Ceara was apparently a secondborn, once again adding yet another bad one to the list with Cadeyrn (and Canach, depending on one’s interpretation).

However, the other three notable secondborn (Canach, Amarantha, and Laranthir) are not present at all…seriously, they remembered Cadeyrn and that frakking Invasive Weed, but they couldn’t remember the ones that weren’t evil? Sigh.

There’s an NPC named Fiana around too, but you can only greet her, not talk to her. Eh…I guess I’d better wiki her later since her name doesn’t ring a bell.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fiana

Oh…she’s the one that dies in battle near that Reverend Terebinth in Brisban Wildlands. So glad she was shown…meh. If you weren’t even going to have her talk or reveal some of her personality, why even have her here?

Nury.3062:

Nilkemia.8507:

Yep. Another cliffhanger without even resolving the first one yet. Bad storytelling.

Bad storytelling? More like amazing story telling…but only if all this builds up to something great that will make me go “WWWWOOOOWWWW”…..that’s a good story telling.

Don’t get your hopes up. It will only make the fall even harder.

The major problem is getting used to using them, which is usually always the big issue with transforms being used on the player. Personally, if Caithe was this powerful years ago, I’m curious as to why she needed our help at all though the earlier parts of the game…It just annoys me more that she sucks so much as an NPC.

So, we meet with the other firstborn…well, eight of them, three being elsewhere.

Wynne says they’re here to discuss how to assist the newly awakened. Faolain immediately interjects that they actually intend to mold them, but Trehearne insists that as the firstborn, it’s their responsibility to care for and guide “these…secondborn”.

Wynne suggests they consider them newly awakened, not call them secondborn, and that they could benefit from the firstborn’s knowledge of Ventari’s tenets, but Faolain is still unconvinced. Gee, I wonder if she’s gonna be evil later…

So we head on down as Caithe, to see all the newly awakened, also spotting some “important” NPCs among them, notably Cadeyrn, who’s of course questioning the validity of Ventari’s teachings already, and Faolain also apparently going to meet with him and others of similar mind later. Gee, I wonder if they’ll become evil in the future?

Hmm? I missed someone you say?

…..

…Oh fine. Ceara’s there too. If only we could kill her in the past…sigh.

We can talk to the two “important” NPCs, and get a bit of their view from them, but nothing we don’t already know. That being said, Cadeyrn has a point about the tenets of the tablet being too idealistic, and that they aren’t allowed to discuss their own views to the others. A shame this potential went wasted.

It should also be noted that this showing of Ceara seems to conflict with her tale in the short story…but oh well. Her existence was one big retcon anyway.

Anyways, another cutscene:

Faolain: “After the gathering today, we must corner Wynne and get her to tell us what she was talking to Mother about.”

Caithe: “You’re obsessing again. You know how we night blooms are about our secrets.”

Faolain: “This is important, Caithe. She knows something that could hold sway over all sylvari. That’s not trivial.”

Caithe: “(laugh) You don’t know that’s true. You overheard a portion of a conversation—out of context, no less.”

Faolain: “I know… C’mon, we’re going to be late for the gathering.”

Talking to Aine explains that these seeds can sense one’s intent, and that if we focus on Caithe, it will show us strong memories she had. They apparently only work with sylvaris’ memories, using Dream magic beyond even her understanding.

Yet they can be used by any race, for the purposes of this. Okay.

After a brief cutscene, we see the past, through Caithe’s eyes. She overhears Trehearne and Faolain having a disagreement about the virtues of Ventari’s Tablet, Trehearne thinking it will help the newly awakened, and Faolain thinking it limits them to living up to one imposed ideal of what they should be, instead of letting them be open to other views.

After that, she calls us over to talk while Trehearne exits the chamber.

I think you mean Marjory and Kasmeer. Marjory has no connection to Logan either (unless you count being hired by him once, which doesn’t really count to me).

And Rox’s connection to Rytlock is simple: She was trying to get in his warband. Some dialogue before the Foefire Cleansing attempt also implies he knew her as a cub, and she might even be one of his kin. However, that would make more sense given what we know of charr cubs being raised in Ascalon in fahrars often away from their biological parents.

Certainly more sense than Eir having a son and not telling anyone or trying to see him after Destiny’s Edge broke up at the time. Bad fanfic levels of insertion.

Challenge mode = Cheaper gimmicks and worse design.

The last cliffhanger was annoying and tedious enough, did we really need another?

Yep. Another cliffhanger without even resolving the first one yet. Bad storytelling.

Figures. Sigh.

/15 blah.

I revisit threads I’ve read and find that any posts I’ve +1’d seem to have reset…Anyone else seeing this?

One cliffhanger after another, without even resolving the previous one. Episode 8 had better resolve all of this, or I’m done. This pacing and drip feeding of the story is just inept.

Also….Caithe’s still in her house…so either the one we encountered out there is a fake…or..
Caithe is really that dumb. Only one way to know.

(click…blam!)

“!…Ugh…..why?”

“No time to explain. Hmph.” (Searches the body for the egg)

The Good:

We see some backstory, see the Firstborn actually talking together, figuring out what to do, seeing Faolain and Caithe trying to rescue the captives, and we get to see a Firstborn we haven’t seen before…I think.

The Bad:

Faolain is pretty much near evil already (We know she turns evil later, but I thought it’d be more slow and gradual as a result of her experiences, not this “bah, I hate Ventari’s Tablet!” spouting already.)

It was also stated in the lore that she joined the Nightmare Court later after its founding, yet she seems to be working with Cadeyrn already.

Caithe’s and Faolain’s relationship isn’t really explored at all. All we know is that they’re close, and apparently love each other already. I wanted to see how they came to love each other. At least they tried doing that in Season 1 with Kasjory…a little.

It’s especially jarring as Caithe and Faolain seem like polar opposites that really wouldn’t fit together.

I can’t believe that Caithe would just help Faolain and her proto-Nightmare Courtiers slaughter an entire centaur village instead of trying to defuse the situation. Ugh.

Another frakking cliffhanger. No. Why couldn’t this have been part of the last episode?

And why do I get the feeling Caithe’s gonna end up killing Wynne? Is that the big secret? It can’t be the village massacre, since Faolain was there to see that. Seriously…I cant even try to care anymore. We still hven’t learned where Caithe is taking the egg or why, and we have more questions added.

From one cliffhanger to another. Such a waste. Why couldn’t the last episode have ended here?

Malediktus.9250:

The hypocrisy is big again here. Who cares if you have to slaughter some centaurs. Over your game time you will kill 100k+ creatures, so what does this small village matter.

Because these centaurs were friendly and willing to get along us until Faolain decided to be a thorn weed for no reason. Everything else we killed (barring ambient creatures) was at least trying to kill us first.

This +50.

Except the jumping puzzle bit, cause I don’t care about those. Pretty to look at, not fun to do. Especially when fatal heights are involved.