Guild Wars 2

sirrealist.1360:

What’s the point of this? What problem does this solve?

Did you read the first sentence?

If you’re a thief you can answer this, how many times have you tossed a stolen skill just to activate steal?

This pi**ing contest is going nowhere, just ignore the fools who call d/d cheese. I can pull out p/p and it’ll be called cheese by someone eventually, its just how some people are nowadays.

Carighan.6758:

NinjaEd.3946:

What if it isn’t removed/stolen/xfer’ed?

As someone said above, it wouldn’t matter.
The whole idea of stacking high duration Protection from it would rely on X targets, with X being a significant number, all attacking you. But if that happens, sorry, -33% damage or not you’ll melt in 1,5 seconds tops.

It still doesn’t make removing the ICD justified, especially against multi hit weapons. a 33% chance to get protection for 5 seconds (idk if boon duration effects this) per attack, 1 target alone could end up stacking a ton of boons on that target. Even for its short duration that 1 buff would end up changing the battle very quickly. Only exception is yes, multiple targets focus firing don’t make a difference but nothing really would to begin with. The point is to balance it on a smaller scale where 2, 3, even 4 people putting out little hits on someone with chaos armor would be overwhelming without an ICD.

Perhaps keep the ICD but split it per target and slightly increase the base duration of the boons applied (5 seconds protection is fine, maybe equalize the regen and and swiftness to 5 seconds as well if not 6 seconds). It would still be punishing for the enemy(ies) to hit you but it wouldn’t stack to high. At least if the enemy slips and hits you a few times you get something for a little while from the chaos armor. As for dealing with blobs, that’s not something chaos armor can solve.

P/p just needs some built in defense other than bps. It’s not that hard to just sit outside the circle and melee them, and if they stay on the opposite edge you can chase them around and still make contact. I think the dual skill is great in how it functions but it needs more damage and the #2 needs something good that p/d can’t abuse. I don’t think anet has a clue what they want body shot to do, it’s received some pretty radical changes.

a t s e.9614:

Well spvp having better players its obvious though.

1. there is no gear/food advantage in pvp
2. there is a match making system, you cant kill clueless noobs like in wvw
3. In svp its 5v5, therefore personal skill matters much more than a zerg of 30v30
4. you can actually lose in spvp , in wvw you cant. Its impossible to know if some1 is good or not, there’s no leaderboards for wvw .
5. wvw players are 3 metas behind. I still see some bull charge frenzy warriors running around in wvw

Im not saying wvw players are bad though. I watched every single video from Yishis. This guy is extremly good.

1. True, helps balance. (said helps, :s)
2. uh, the matchmaking system is a joke. I still find a mix of quality and poor players.
3. Also true, however many builds get the deluxe package which are often the builds complained about.
4. There actually are leaderboards for wvw, its just not focused on roaming. The winning is whose loot bag drops. Regardless, winning in spvp doesn’t matter because you can’t rely on random people for a win. Team matches like those in the Tournys can look at win:loss but not individual, this isn’t some FPS where you can carry your team.
5. Depends on your server tier match up. Tier 1 I saw kittens mixed with blobs, tier 2 I saw more knowledgable players but often they were running some abusive build like perplex pre-nerf with 3-4 engineers or 2-4 thieves using p/d with a Mesmer ripping you apart. Tier 3 and below its just a mix, you’ll find bad players anywhere you go except the tourny’s (because they don’t get qualified).

I have no problem with spectral wall, its a great defense if I need to get my heal off or just want to channel a skill and need them to stay back.

It’s a great skill imo, wouldn’t trade it for any other warding skill at this point.

inhearth.2038:

The funny thing is: they’re losing players because of it.

They’re losing players from a lack of action. They can talk all day (which is rare), the extremely long time between “balance” patches is making everything incredibly stale and upsetting people who are tired of running into the same kitten builds day after day. I want something new, and although the LS is finally bringing in some old time mechanics that I loved (actual weather, more environmental hazards, more skill based encounters like the flanking fern hounds) pvp is just a daily to me atm.

No one really knows what they’re doing, they just don’t communicate or act nearly enough. I was under the impression that their bug fixing team was separate of their balance team :/

I can understand the retaliation split for wvw/pvp/pve because it is based on hit and did massive damage against AoE skills, but the confusion nerf imo didn’t seem necessary in the way they did it. It should of been off of skills except AA imo.

In other words, confusion would make using anything but AA very painful (bring the old numbers back). Let it deal the high damage on non-aa skill/action activation but lower its duration so its a short window of essentially skill blocking. So to recap

1. Lower the duration of all confusion applications (unless they are already significantly low).
2. Remove the split damage from pvp/wvw and Pve. It would do the same as pve damage.
3. No longer activates on auto attack chains.

That way it can be powerful yet manageable by just letting it expire incase you can’t condi cleanse it.

Tengu.5267:

a Hambow’s animations are really easy to see, dodge the stun, and the knock back.. the fight is pretty easy from there out.

Stun, knockback, knockdown, pin down, arcing arrow. Then from there you can feel free- oh wait cooldowns are back.

Get a new mouse?

Mines got 13 buttons and has a long warranty, it’s better than trying to apply 5 stacks of carpal tunnel all around wasd.

Arikyali.5804:

To me, pvp is always fair and honest.

Ha, 1:4 goes a long way. Its no more intuitive than blobing on wvw when its just a kitten storm at mid. I almost fell asleep watching the EU/NA ToL, just zergs galore with hambow, altruisitic guardian and the occasional AI build, nothing interesting.

Condi work great against them, a.k.a p/d. You can kite their hammer for days and only dodge “pin down”. The rest is either to slow to reach you by strafing or doesn’t do anything significant.

Power all you can do is boon steal and evade hoping for the best, because its hard to bait their low cooldown mayhem.

P.s boon stealing for w/e reason does not prioritize their 20+ stacks of might, so it “might” be a while. If it’s pvp I just move to another location, almost always the hambow kittens come in packs.

dekou.6012:

Your uber 30s protection could also just get removed, stoled or corrupted.

Etheral fields are plentiful on Mesmer (at least compared to everyone else) so coordinating a blast on one of those just to reapply that chaos armor, or use staff which almost all of them do.

What if it isn’t removed/stolen/xfer’ed? -33% damage isn’t little and there are frontline Mesmer builds using mantras. I’ve seen them posted and seen them in use. It is unlikely they are on par with guardian or warrior frontline but the point is they don’t melt, and can give some good support if they know what their doing. (idk how the fun scale is on that but viable and fun don’t go hand and hand always.)

I actually would be in favor of separate ICD for each enemy that hits you. But they would probably need to change the way the boons are selected because imagine 5 second protection times X enemies hitting you (33% chance). You’d probably get over 30 seconds of protection if it was multiple enemies.

Paavotar.3971:

Banners! I’m not quite sure where they come from, but I suppose the small invisible dwarfs keep throwing them up in the air when we so desire.

They are gods, its only fair they get air support.

More kitty litter because of a bug fix on a skill that wasn’t reliable to begin with.

Next patch I expect last refuge to remove reveal before proc’ing in an effort to delete my weapon for auto-revealing me anyways. Then I’ll discuss why my ranger’s pet is dead half the time effectively disabling my profession mechanic for 40 seconds.

Azo.5860:

NinjaEd.3946:

Halfcentaur.9706:

/quote]
This Mesmer Q.Q is a joke these days, they see a few “pro” thieves and suddenly thief is viable and OP. Mesmer can blow up a thief and be just as slippery, I’ve watched it in videos and spectating and been a victim of it since launch while experiencing a multitude of nerfs, sorry if I have zero sympathy for your class.

i m giving answer with assuming u read my above posts..

are u trolling or what?
sorry, no need answer pls ignore it will better.. cuz i am not capable enough to discuss things with u i cant reach your iq..
—————————————————————————-

Its funny that you and countless others think you’re not good compared to other classes. Seriously, did I miss the opposite day memo?

Maybe you should get better, that’s all I hear when thief gets nerfed and we’ve been nerfed hard numerous times with zero compensation. So no, not trolling. If I didn’t enjoy the playstyle of thief so much I’d gladly trade mine in for a Mesmer, at least I get globally known skills that do something.

Want to trade null field for shadow refuge? Pretty please? I dislike AoE and being CC’ed out of it while making it near impossible to stealth downed allies when they pretend their AA is going to do something. What other support skills do you dislike? I’ll probably trade ya.

I think Mesmers just don’t like seeing their goodies taken away, and need to complain about the little things without looking at what their profession is still capable of.

Also lol @ Sergoros, aoe boon removal per second + ethereal field and you’re complaining?

Best they don’t interfere with the almighty meta, let it soak in for 6 months to see if the edges get smoothed out.

Best they don’t interfere with the almighty meta, let it soak in for 6 months to see if the edges get smoothed out.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&docid=8YICXO_e0e7M7M&tbnid=4JXLVqunP_6-mM:&ved=0CAUQjBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.authenticpua.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F03%2FFacepalm.jpg&ei=0c3HU9zGMMehyASHzoHoBA&psig=AFQjCNGHgvslnFbmIlpeS5Hp-HTzweWUrA&ust=1405689681880599

I’d question exorcising something with poison in all honesty.

hmm your tears are so tasty. Here is a few you seemed to of missed so I’ll post them while you wipe them tears away.

-Diversion: clones will run to the target and then explode, contrary to the description.
-Temporal curtain→ Into the void: pulls foes past its location contrary to the description.
-Prismatic understand: only grants aegis or protection or regen contrary to the description.

I’d go on but this is pretty pointless to start with.

Halfcentaur.9706:

It’s not that some classes are meant to have mobility while others aren’t.

Mesmers have zero mobility.
If we want mobility, we sacrifice an element of our base damage or utility. And you learn quick that in order to do any damage as a mesmer, you have to go full blown while using all of your utility skills for escapes. All of which ele/thiefs do 100% better.

Ele, maybe since they can self-might stack removing any need to equip damaging stats but thief is in the same boat. You must misinterpret how thieves work, which is strange if you’re a Mesmer player. A thief can bounce around and evade, but we don’t get anywhere near 100% more survivability while maintain the damage a Mesmer can pull off.

This Mesmer Q.Q is a joke these days, they see a few “pro” thieves and suddenly thief is viable and OP. Mesmer can blow up a thief and be just as slippery, I’ve watched it in videos and spectating and been a victim of it since launch while experiencing a multitude of nerfs, sorry if I have zero sympathy for your class.

Carighan.6758:

NinjaEd.3946:

You have to compare them at some point, otherwise class A would look at class B and say “I know I’m generally a support guy, but why does his power build do 3x more than me and have stronger defenses?” You can’t just put every profession in their own corner and “balance” them based on their own strengths and weaknesses, because it wouldn’t go anywhere.

Erm, why not?

What part is that referring to? The last part?

If so, its because balance isn’t a 1 way street. If they balanced every class based on their own strengths and flaws warrior would be invulnerable, guardian would need to be killed 50 times before actually dying because of their healing, thief would 1 shot tanks, and necromancer would pour acid over their foes and melt them faster with conditions than they are already capable of.

Its vital to compare certain parts of the class. Not necessarily change them because not every class is a copy of one another, but its healthy to compare similar mechanics on similar play styles. The whole point is every class should be able to fill any role, not all of them are going to be pulling straight A’s in every role but noticeably large differences are the reason for many of these cross class comparison threads.

Mesmer has enough methods of destroying boons and more than enough methods of applying conditions. Although kind of unique, I say nay.

Stand The Wall.6987:

I think guard could do with some soft cc though. Some cripple never hurt anyone.

Would be nice, but where would it be located exactly?

Olba.5376:

Razor.6392:

I don’t play warrior (never have), but I’ll proceed to list what they do based on my personal knowledge:
Arcing slice (greatsword): Melee hit that gives fury, by far one of the worst out there.
Earthshaker (hammer): Aoe stun with respectable damage (also a blast fin. didn’t know that).
Skull cracker (mace): Single target, long duration stun.
Eviscerate (axe): Single target, very high damage nuke with a small gap closing leap.
Combustive shot (LB): Fire field, lasts a long time.
Kill shot (rifle): ranged extremely high damage nuke with a channel.

These are all fine on their own. But what I can’t understand is why these very powerful abilities are allowed to have cooldowns equal to 10 seconds.

Isn’t that a bit too short, considering that you can reduce the cd even lower?

Someone please try to explain the reasoning behind this, and why warriors need to have these bonus abilities on such a short CD.

• Arcing Slice has low damage (1.3 coefficient) but provides a lot of Fury. So it’s a utility skill.

No one uses Arcing Slice because it’s weak. It provides Fury, but so does Signet of Rage, which most Warriors run with.

• Earthshaker was strong at a point because it had a high aoe CC with good damage. That damage was heavily cut down a while back. Also, Earthshaker is one of the most telegraphed skills a Warrior has.
• Skull Crack has the longest stun in the game, but it’s on a slow weapon. They also recently doubled the cast time on it from 0.25s to 0.5s.
• Eviscerate has high damage, but a very telegraphed animation. If you’re wondering, Final Thrust at <50% HP has the damage damage on a 15s cooldown.
• Kill Shot has one of the highest coefficients of a single hit skills in the game. However, other than that, Rifle is a pretty bad weapon. It’s got Volley and Kill Shot and that’s pretty much it. And Kill Shot has a 1.75s channeling with a pretty obvious animation.

The above skills have one thing in common: They are all awesome as heck, but they’re all very hard to land. All of them have a lengthy channel, an obvious animation or both.

The only universally great burst skill is Combustive Shot. And Combustive Shot on its own is kind of crappy, actually. It’s got low damage, burning and a combo field. The combo field isn’t very useful with just longbow. In fact, the reason why Combustive Shot is so awesome is because of how well it works with Cleansing Ire.

And that’s why the burst skills have low cooldowns.

Telegraphed yet warrior has multiple methods of chaining attacks to land those telegraphed hits. Axe+SH, quite simple to explain landing eviscerate. Same can be done with leg specialist and #3 on axe. Combustive shot can have a 90% uptime and being a combo field work in all sorts of ways while also providing constant damage ticks which can crit to apply on crit effects (or just on hit effects). 100b is the most telegraphed skill imaginable yet people get it off by combo-ing it with some form of cc (often skull crack), and just getting a couple hits of that off is painful.

So yeah, I don’t understand why every burst skill has a 10 second cooldown. I don’t mind them having separate cooldowns, but all having a 10 second base is most certainly not right especially since it is the only adrenaline spender and adrenaline is incredibly easy to obtain. What happened to GW1 adrenaline mechanics where you had to make choices and many skills had additional effects for spending that adrenaline? (spend all, gain additional for X skill type, disable skill type X, etc)

I honestly feel like some adrenaline skills could use a change of mechanics with also a change of cooldowns.

Arcing slice- Lower fury duration to 5 seconds at stage 1, 7 seconds at stage 2, and 10 seconds at stage 3. Now cleaves. Fury gain is per target hit (max number of hits 3). Increase range to 180. Increased cooldown to 15 seconds.

Eviscerate- No mechanic or cooldown change.

Earthshaker- No mechanic change, increase cooldown to 15 seconds.

Flurry- Only apply immobilize if the first hit makes contact, no cooldown change.

Combustive shot- Increase field duration at stage 1 to 5 seconds, stage 2 to 8 seconds, and stage 3 to 12 seconds. Increase cooldown to 20 seconds.

Skull crack- No mechanic change, increase cooldown to 15 seconds.

Kill shot- Movement no longer interrupts channel, however it reduces the range to 750 and has a 25% chance to miss now(25% chance it will stray from your target). No cooldown change.

Holl.3109:

NinjaEd.3946:

Some new elites would be nice. I still have yet to pick an elite on my guardian that wasn’t renewed focus :/

Warrior: “Watch yourself!”. Increase the toughness of your allies. [60 +3 per level (300 at level 80)]. Duration 15 seconds. Radius of effect 600 units. Max number of targets 5. Cooldown 90 seconds. (shout)

Guardian: Staff of Knowledge. Summon an arcane staff to support you and your allies. Every 10 seconds, it will cast empower (same might duration and stacks, just no heal). Cooldown 120 seconds. Duration 40 seconds. Command the staff to heal nearby allies and cure 1 condition. Radius of effect 600. Max number of targets 5. (spirit weapon)

Engineer: Carpet bombing. Call in a bombardment of attacks on a target area. Radius of effect 450 units. Number of hits 15. Radius of hits 120 Cast time 3 seconds (air strike does not arrive if interrupted). Duration 6 seconds. Cast range 900 units. Cooldown 90 seconds.

Ranger: Comfort animal. Heal (only) your pet. If your pet is dead, instead resurrect them to 33% health and double the cooldown. Cooldown 45(90) seconds.

Thief: Shadow form. Reduce the duration of incoming conditions and increase the duration of stealth skills. Reduce conditions by 50%. Increase stealth durations by 1 second. Effect duration 20 seconds. Cooldown 120 seconds. (deception)

Elementalist: Master of magic. For the next 30 seconds, swapping attunements lowers the cooldown of every other attunement by 1 second. (this does not effect the attunement you swap out of). Cooldown 60 seconds.

Mesmer: Impaired Thoughts. The next skill your foe casts has an additional 15 second recharge on it. Range 600 units. Effect duration 10 seconds. Cooldown 120 seconds. (Manipulation)

Necromancer: Spectral Fog. Remove all your conditions into a fog. Enemies who enter the cloud are effected by those conditions for the remaining duration. Cloud duration 6 seconds. (only applies conditions one time). Radius of cloud 300 units. Cooldown 90 seconds. (spectral)

All Great ideas! This would really make everything more interesting…. And I think we need some elites with a lower cooldown

That was most certainly my aim^^ I know ele has that problem as does engineer and guardian really needs something other than renewed focus (books are not that great).

selan.8354:

Substance E.4852:

selan.8354:

Anton.1769:

crunchyraisin.6054:

The problem is not mesmer balance….the problem people playing one class in only one aspect of the game. If you only play less that 5% of the game don’t expect to be able to do 100% of things.

Also….null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills. Mesmers also make extremely effective roamers and scouts when you’re bored. I enjoy the mesmer. It is viable in every aspect of the game, although I would personally like to see it buffed a little in pve, especially for low levels.

mesmer is useless at any aspects of game. It is said by main mesmer.
PvP – useless
WvW – veilbot + even almost 0 abilities to tag enemies to receive loot(“null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills” – Necros laugh at this xD.)
PvE – portalbot at CoF – nothing more.
Mesmers only viable at 1×1 or at small roaming groups at open field. You can enjoy mesmer, but if you play some different classes you will see his defectiveness.

as a wvw player, that mained a mes since release and now gave up and switched to necro, i have to agrre with u. thats exactly how i feel about the mesmer. we used to be great in wvw. now we are only there to put down veil and then try to stay alive while GWEN gets all the loot and u get 2 bags because u managed to aa people with gs 2…

Let me dry your Mesmer tears with the pelt of my Ranger pet that died 1.1 seconds into a fight and took a massive chunk of the class’s dps and traits with it.

Veil, Null Field, Mass Invis, Portal, and Time Warp are all insanely powerful WvW skills that can make or break large-scale engagements.

I’ll never understand why people bring a Mesmer into WvW and then complain that it isn’t an Elementalist.

I mean, if all you want is mindless “Tag for bag” game play, the Guardian Staff auto-attack is right there and nothing works better.

powerful in what way? the dmg it deals…oh thats right none of them does, because of theri low cooldowns?oh thats right they are all on massive cooldowns, portalbombs? cmon everyone is prepared for this…tw cannot make or brake a large scale combat , neither does any of the others at all!

So you want utility support and massive damage? Honestly Mesmer Q.Q from being nerfed is as hysterical as warrior Q.Q from being nerfed at this point. Not that they are equally unbalanced, but the fact that they can do so much and get upset for being toned down (and Mesmer takes 10000000X more skill to play than warrior). When you wana cry over being excluded from a lot of content look at ranger and thief.

All I’m really seeing is more people who are labeled as good playing thief than Mesmer, a population count shouldn’t have any say in that matter. Only thing thief excels at over Mesmer is getting from point a to point B versus stopping at point B to port back to A (in other words, lol at anet saying Mesmer has great mobility). They have more group utility on their viable builds without so many weak spots. Chaos armor is a pretty big thing, as is Aoe boon stripping/condi clear, things a Mesmer can do and a thief cannot do nearly as well.

WVW, I still see them everywhere. It’s not uncommon to find them roaming and even as a “veil bot” the fact that they have those little things is better than what thief has which is “blast bot” followed by being dead.

Pvp they aren’t a copy of thief but they sure can build like them and be hard to catch.

Pve, who cares.

nearlight.3064:

Ezeriel.9574:

…and that’s what it feels like to play a necro. Every time you get a cool toy the teacher comes and takes it away from you.
.

I think that comment sums up mesmers (at least in WvW) a bit better.

Mesmer Q.Q is so tasty. Welcome to the nerf club!

jportell.2197:

Anton.1769:

NinjaEd.3946:

Anton.1769:

crunchyraisin.6054:

The problem is not mesmer balance….the problem people playing one class in only one aspect of the game. If you only play less that 5% of the game don’t expect to be able to do 100% of things.

Also….null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills. Mesmers also make extremely effective roamers and scouts when you’re bored. I enjoy the mesmer. It is viable in every aspect of the game, although I would personally like to see it buffed a little in pve, especially for low levels.

mesmer is useless at any aspects of game. It is said by main mesmer.
PvP – useless
WvW – veilbot + even almost 0 abilities to tag enemies to receive loot(“null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills” – Necros laugh at this xD.)
PvE – portalbot at CoF – nothing more.
Mesmers only viable at 1×1 or at small roaming groups at open field. You can enjoy mesmer, but if you play some different classes you will se his defectiveness.

Ill raise you with thief, except we don’t have anything close to veil or mass invis.

thieves feel good at spvp and are kings at roaming

Thieves are used much more in PvP than mesmers.

Based on what exactly?

crunchyraisin.6054:

I’m really perplexed by people that think it’s logical to compare across classes directly. Ele is sooooo different than warrior. Warriors do not expect to be able to drop aoe meteor showers that can hit up to 8k each and eles should not be able to expect the low downtime of warrior skills.

The next post will be a mesmer that is sad because they don’t have lich form.

You did describe why s/d is so much less popular now. Even for those that approach it’s skillcap, which is very high. That build is kinda silly anyways once people catch on to it. I feel like it’s rightful place is something for high level players to do when they get bored.

I don’t understand your crusade of removing cross class discussions. You have to compare them at some point, otherwise class A would look at class B and say “I know I’m generally a support guy, but why does his power build do 3x more than me and have stronger defenses?” You can’t just put every profession in their own corner and “balance” them based on their own strengths and weaknesses, because it wouldn’t go anywhere.

There is more to balancing then looking at numbers, there is the animations, cast times, cooldowns, reliablility of hitting (some only follow X axis) but its not like people are comparing ghastly claws to eviscerate. They are comparing similar skills on similar play styles.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

some kittens just want to complain, because they can.

unfortunately, anet gives in and entertains these minority kittens from time to time, hence we see some really uncalled for, unreasonable, unjustified adjustments from time to time.

fortunately, any major balance patch only occurs every 6 months so it is still bearable.

Actually the fact that they take 6+ months to occur is why things happen. They simply drop some groceries off and take off expecting everything to be ok.

crunchyraisin.6054:

Simonoly.4352:

Well although some of the comparisons brought up on these forums are somewhat questionable, it’s actually really important to compare classes for both cross-class balance as well as providing role clarity for the player. It’s better to debunk specific comparisons made instead of being dismissive of them all.

Scrolling through this forum. So much of the reasoning has to do with “hey look a warrior can do this, why can’t my ele do exactly the same thing”. This thread is nothing more than an attempt to get people to look at the bigger picture. Instead of zoning in on rush>RTL, evisc>fire grab, people need to look at the overall build. The devs have done an extraordinary job of making sure that this game is close to balanced and that every profession has at least a few situations where it can be superior to anything else.

Unrelated to your quote…if I had to feel sorry for anybody it would be ranger right now, but even then rangers have the best uw dps in the game, tons of utility with pets, 1500 range, stealth, long range cc, built in evades, condi roaming potential…

Most people have, and thier out performance in multiple ways is the reason for cross class comparisons. The builds that are not complained about are the ones that have to make choices in their build, lose some gain some. When certain builds can bypass the need to make decisions like, “do I need a lot of vitality or condi clear, what choices do I have that fit my build” then its natural to take a little from that pot and stand it up against someone who doesn’t get that luxury in addition to other things.

Is it unbalanced for guardian to have such high healing? Not really, because they are in the lowest health tier and generally play a front line role so they need that sustain. But now is it fair that guardian can put on healing power and get very high numbers when other “support” builds get a very small return for that investment? It would be better if those numbers were closer in line, why should a stat become irrelevant to some builds and actually rewarding for others? I’m pretty sure the loss in dps is enough of a punishment for putting on healing power. It doesn’t mean match them, it means look at how some professions can play roles far better than others when the original idea was to “play how you want”.

When the risk:reward of a build is far more than another profession playing a similar build, its normal to ask why.

maha.7902:

NinjaEd.3946:

maha.7902:

Their groups have no effect on you so just leave them be. The sad thing is you actually think you have some sort of moral high ground, but you don’t when you’re trolling people who simply want to play with others like themselves. Whether you like their standards or not is irrelevant, I don’t join those groups either, but writing LOL and then leaving the group serves no purpose.

You’re really over thinking this :/

Maybe I’m sick of white knights thinking they’re doing the community some great big service by trolling berserker groups (or in my case, joining my path sales and kicking me from my own instance). You play how you want, let them play how they want. It’s not that hard. And before the obligatory ‘well all the groups want berserker’ comment, it’s as easy as making your own no requirement group. I’ve made non descript groups that have filled in like a minute flat and used my condition build and nobody ever said anything.

Where did I start recruiting people? I was just sharing a story jeez. Also quit contradicting yourself, if this was really a case of “play how you want, let them play how they want” then this thread wouldn’t exist. All I do is give them a taste of their own medicine, its not like I stand there and spam messages to make them block me and abuse the Lfg system with snide remarks towards them. Its quick and to the point, and much better than getting kicked because I don’t meet some the requirements of some all star team to clear the dungeon 2 minutes quicker than a group of mixed builds/professions.

maha.7902:

Their groups have no effect on you so just leave them be. The sad thing is you actually think you have some sort of moral high ground, but you don’t when you’re trolling people who simply want to play with others like themselves. Whether you like their standards or not is irrelevant, I don’t join those groups either, but writing LOL and then leaving the group serves no purpose.

You’re really over thinking this :/

crunchyraisin.6054:

I would agree that theives don’t have a stable spot in large groups…but condi theives are arguably the best roaming build. Theives also scout better than just about anything else.

mes in pvp= useless? go watch a stream of helseth or supcutie…or if getting good isn’t an option, learn PU build.

I’ve already conceded that I would’t mind seeing weapon damage on mesmer increased especially for low level toons. Phantasm and sword dps is not useless in dungeons, neither is time warp. In high level speed clears I will concede mes is underpowered for most dungeons.

If you want bags…run a guardian with a staff and hit 1….I was under the impression that you thought mes was un-useful. Clearly you know that it’s useful but find the gameplay personally boring and are sad that you can’t tag enemies well. I agree that the loot system is imperfect, but mesmers have a strong place in wvw…stronger than a few other classes.

Back to my main point…..judge professions based on how viable and useful they are overall. Don’t look at it’s strongest part and cry “op” because you can’t do the same thing in exactly the same way on your profession. Every profession has at least a few areas that it shines.

Im not comparing high’s to lows, I’m comparing lows to really lows. Rifle isn’t good in most areas of the game, but it can be set up and perform much better than lb on ranger without worrying about slight mistakes. Both suck in general and can be easily overwhelmed but ranger suffers from mistakes far more and still does less. That’s my point of some comparisons having a purpose, when its underpowered from a class and mechanic perspective then it makes you compare it to something that at least has some working formula.

Anton.1769:

crunchyraisin.6054:

The problem is not mesmer balance….the problem people playing one class in only one aspect of the game. If you only play less that 5% of the game don’t expect to be able to do 100% of things.

Also….null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills. Mesmers also make extremely effective roamers and scouts when you’re bored. I enjoy the mesmer. It is viable in every aspect of the game, although I would personally like to see it buffed a little in pve, especially for low levels.

mesmer is useless at any aspects of game. It is said by main mesmer.
PvP – useless
WvW – veilbot + even almost 0 abilities to tag enemies to receive loot(“null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills” – Necros laugh at this xD.)
PvE – portalbot at CoF – nothing more.
Mesmers only viable at 1×1 or at small roaming groups at open field. You can enjoy mesmer, but if you play some different classes you will se his defectiveness.

Ill raise you with thief, except we don’t have anything close to veil or mass invis.

crunchyraisin.6054:

You’re right Indigo, it does seem odd…if you only read the title.

Comparing ranger LB with warrior rifle is exactly the type of comparisons that I’m trying to stop. They are not the same.

Rangers have a pet, medium armor, 1500 range while warriors have heavy armor, 1000 range. Completely different set of traits and utilities. It is completely insane to look at the dps or the burst skill and say that is what makes one better than the other when there are so many other factors that effect how useful that build is in certain situational gameplay.

Yes but while rifle isn’t all that great, warrior is and with a lesser investment they can make rifle do pretty good damage while ranger has to invest a lot more and still under perform. The point is spec’ing into something should come with sacrifices elsewhere which ranger see’s the harsher side of. Its comparing how a similar mechanic that both professions share is much more forgiving than on another. If you believe power ranger is strong then there is no need to proceed but I don’t, and I see something that another profession had done right. Different is fine, functioning better than someone else on multiple levels without trying is not when discussing balance.

Some suggestions to add bleed to their list (without being excessive)

Sword
[zealot’s defense] add 3 second bleeds to each hit. Given the terrain issue this skill has and how often the blades miss to begin with, it would be for a short burst of bleeds at best.

Greatsword
[Whirling Wrath] Add 4 second bleeds to the projectiles. Another projectile which only follows the x axis coupled with being sent outward in all directions as opposed to 1 (although with “target assist” off it can all hit 1).
[Binding Blade] Upon contact and every 3 seconds, apply a 6 second bleed. Effect ends if you use the pull.

Traits
[Renewed Justice] Unrealiable and hardly impressionable. For being a minor trait however, it can’t be too good. Changed to [Shimmering blade] apply bleeding on sword and greatsword critical hits (3s).

maha.7902:

NinjaEd.3946:

I have my own means of dealing with these elitists. Look for their “Heavies only, 5k ap 45 AR” groups, notice it is usually only 1 warrior lonesome, join, type in caps, “LOL” and leave. Then be glad you wasted their time for being a kitten.

I did a level 28 fotm with 15 ar on my freshly made 80 guardian (leveled primarily from pvp (level books), dailies (pvp) and about 5 runs of AC towards the end.) I’m no “pro” dungeon runner but I’ve never had to sit through such pain in a long time ever since I retired from doing 48 daily. Even when I did a those few runs of AC I had level ~60 green gear and was pulling my weight and often theirs, it’s pathetic. People assume gear and AP or playtime makes a difference when it really has no value.

Part of this however is a fault in the dungeon encounters, where stacking cleaving dps is the go-to but I just find it sad when these elitists in their full asc gear are still dying to trash mobs. Bring your ranger, bring your engi, innocent until proven stupid I say.

So you respond to people being kittens by being a kitten yourself. Why yes, how dare people try to play with people who meet their standards, if someone makes an LFG saying newbies only I will join, type LOL and leave because they’re being kittens excluding experienced players like myself.

Someone didn’t like robin hood. You really have sympathy for elitist kittens? There are no repair costs anymore so its difficult to make them feel like a kitten these days.

I see what you’re getting at crunchy, but cross profession comparisons have a purpose.

Take ranger LB vs warrior rifle for instance, warrior gets an adept trait that grants piercing and a cd reduction while ranger would have to spend 4 times as many trait points to get those effects. At face value one might say, “well rifle sucks”. That’s not the point, the point is ranger is not in a good place and they’re simply demonstrating a way to help them (by merging traits). I’ve seen a number of posts relating to warrior’s mobility as well. If they’re being a troll that’s fine but it falls into line with the long ago rtl nerf. If they want to (seen more so in pvp) they can deal pretty good damage with gs if they combo it with some form of cc and then freely disengage at any time which falls in line with what ele used to be able to do easily. Its unbalanced to let a bruiser make those kinds of decisions with no real risk imo. Decap engi I simply just avoid which hardly seems like a solution. Without some cleaving and either range or stability I can’t approach them. Some also complain that the guardian has too much support granted it’s kind of their thing, there are some things they have that are insanely good while some other professions don’t ever see that kind of attention even with similar weaknesses.

Comparing things to face value like condi removal of an engi to an ele yes its non-sense. There are supposed to be weaknesses, but you can’t honestly say things are gravy right now especially with how little attention anet has been paying towards balancing.

I have my own means of dealing with these elitists. Look for their “Heavies only, 5k ap 45 AR” groups, notice it is usually only 1 warrior lonesome, join, type in caps, “LOL” and leave. Then be glad you wasted their time for being a kitten.

I did a level 28 fotm with 15 ar on my freshly made 80 guardian (leveled primarily from pvp (level books), dailies (pvp) and about 5 runs of AC towards the end.) I’m no “pro” dungeon runner but I’ve never had to sit through such pain in a long time ever since I retired from doing 48 daily. Even when I did a those few runs of AC I had level ~60 green gear and was pulling my weight and often theirs, it’s pathetic. People assume gear and AP or playtime makes a difference when it really has no value.

Part of this however is a fault in the dungeon encounters, where stacking cleaving dps is the go-to but I just find it sad when these elitists in their full asc gear are still dying to trash mobs. Bring your ranger, bring your engi, innocent until proven stupid I say.

This is definitely a side effect from food wars 2. I wouldn’t say remove food entirely from wvw, just completely remove the broken ones that everyone goes to. I shouldn’t be forced to combat other peoples food effects, that’s the worst balance design I experience in wvw and I get zerged down constantly. There is hundreds of foods, and only a handful have any noticeable effect from them, should probably look into buffing some.

[Support foods] make em stronger. Healing power doesn’t scale well on multiple professions, so give a little more than 100 healing power. Then there are downed foods, why not make those effects help you rally allies instead of spec’ing to be dead?

[Damage foods] After the ferocity nerf, all those ferocity foods are terrible. Far to low of a stat value with a much smaller effect than power at this point. On the flip side, 40% condi duration food is broken and should be nerfed (as it was posted awhile back on this forum)

I never understood why each burst skill had a 10 second cooldown while some were significantly stronger than others. Stage 3 adrenaline isn’t hard to get, and a 9 second combustion can literally be permanently covering a point in pvp with some points into discipline. Backbreaker is a 30 second cooldown for a 2 second single target kd but earthshaker is an aoe stun for 2 seconds (same duration) and a blast finisher and has some decent damage attatched.

Some things are just too easily accessible on warrior :/

inb4warriorsaystheyarebalanced

Some new elites would be nice. I still have yet to pick an elite on my guardian that wasn’t renewed focus :/

Warrior: “Watch yourself!”. Increase the toughness of your allies. [60 +3 per level (300 at level 80)]. Duration 15 seconds. Radius of effect 600 units. Max number of targets 5. Cooldown 90 seconds. (shout)

Guardian: Staff of Knowledge. Summon an arcane staff to support you and your allies. Every 10 seconds, it will cast empower (same might duration and stacks, just no heal). Cooldown 120 seconds. Duration 40 seconds. Command the staff to heal nearby allies and cure 1 condition. Radius of effect 600. Max number of targets 5. (spirit weapon)

Engineer: Carpet bombing. Call in a bombardment of attacks on a target area. Radius of effect 450 units. Number of hits 15. Radius of hits 120 Cast time 3 seconds (air strike does not arrive if interrupted). Duration 6 seconds. Cast range 900 units. Cooldown 90 seconds.

Ranger: Comfort animal. Heal (only) your pet. If your pet is dead, instead resurrect them to 33% health and double the cooldown. Cooldown 45(90) seconds.

Thief: Shadow form. Reduce the duration of incoming conditions and increase the duration of stealth skills. Reduce conditions by 50%. Increase stealth durations by 1 second. Effect duration 20 seconds. Cooldown 120 seconds. (deception)

Elementalist: Master of magic. For the next 30 seconds, swapping attunements lowers the cooldown of every other attunement by 1 second. (this does not effect the attunement you swap out of). Cooldown 60 seconds.

Mesmer: Impaired Thoughts. The next skill your foe casts has an additional 15 second recharge on it. Range 600 units. Effect duration 10 seconds. Cooldown 120 seconds. (Manipulation)

Necromancer: Spectral Fog. Remove all your conditions into a fog. Enemies who enter the cloud are effected by those conditions for the remaining duration. Cloud duration 6 seconds. (only applies conditions one time). Radius of cloud 300 units. Cooldown 90 seconds. (spectral)

Just another day in pve. Ever punish yourself with a 3+ hour fotm run only to have the party leader disband because he can’t stop dying to the dredge boss’s bombs? And it was the last fractal in the chain before the boss bonus….

Wish I could report people for being terrible sometimes. With great power would come great responsibility.

MH mace please. Anything to get rid of MH sword aa root.