Guild Wars 2

@ OP, you picked the class that gets the most hate period. They even call sb overpowered and cheesy, its just the community we have here. No body cares to play the game and help one another, they just wana press 1 button and win, and talk kitten if that doesn’t work.

Zacchary.6183:

DeWolfe.2174:

execullent.8560:

Why do you hate thieves ? ?

Are you KIDDING??? They are the Golden Child profession! Daddy Dev (you should know which) has been keeping you king of the 1v since launch. Aww… so your no real skill required spammable BS (literally and figuratively) and HS are getting reduced? Thieves should be getting a 30% reduction in BS and HS, not a measly 10%! Wow, so 6k becomes a 5k.

Thieves have been such bull in WvW since launch. How much consumer backlash is required before Anet fixes it has been my question.

Travlane.5948:

You realize 1v1 has no place in wvw…no place in any format. so we are strong in something that has no relevance

Please tell this to every player ganked while running to a camp. Or, coming out of spawn in the south of the BL’s, especially Lake.

Because the players who keep getting ganked by thieves never use situational awareness or common sense when fighting them. That’s what happens when you zerg all of the time. You become braindead, only paying attention to the chat or the map for the blue dorito. Then suddenly “from out of nowhere” the thief who was following you for the past 3 minutes drops you.

Its not because they are super permastealth ninjas, its because players are acting like neanderthals. Something as simple as “situational awareness” in any pvp environment is almost REQUIRED to survive and situational awareness requires a player’s full attention.

They are not aware that pressing r while alt-tabbed means you are walking loot. Thief is good at roaming, its their “thang”, but people mistake this + as if it is applied everywhere qnd suddenly we see nerfs in places that made 0 sense. Sadly even in pvp many people are quite braindead and never bother to look around during a fight. Like when you see a rifle or lb war sitting there and raining dps, while half your team is jumping around like a bunch of animals in rush hour traffic.

a t s e.9614:

Yea S/P for team fights or quick burst on unaware people but I don’t see how S/D is viable though , it has no burst . Any type of warrior does higher damage than S/D

If we had a way of sharing stolen boons, it would be. S/d will prolly get nerfed again soon anyways, it being viable means OP to the community which is unacceptable. I wouldn’t be surprised if the coming months they make the only “viable” set p/p just to please the Q.Qers.

tonyg.3824:

The nerf bat: My opinion
-You can scale healing signet down as much as you like, honestly I would like to see it down to 280-300 per second but SCALE better with healing power, let warriors earn the regeneration instead of handing it out.
-pin down nerf was needed.
-Work with our other heals again they are too far inferior too healing signet to be called healing skills my suggestion, scale healing surge lower but in return make it immune to poison.
-make adrenal health NOT scale with healing power.
-put cleansing ire on a 5-7s CD so the burst skills cannot be spammed for condi removal.
-Increase CDs of sword skills, make the trait 10% crit rate with sword also do -20% duration so no more perma torment unless earned.
-Make stances longer, or add a -20% cd somewhere but make it so stances overlap each other.

You had me goin until you mentioned making stances longer. Zerker stance is incredibly OP and overused, it should be toned down 20% or more. Rest of your nerf suggestions I entirely agree, and are part of what makes warrior such an easy class to play with minimal risk. Massive condition duration, massive regen, massive condi clear w/o the loss in damage.

On top of that, all burst skills are on a 10 second (base) cooldown. So in other words, anet feels that all of them are balanced on a 10 sec cooldown. I guess lb burst isn’t strong so it has the same cooldown as GS burst.

Phantom Master.9582:

Warrior rage, music to my ears!

The easier the class is to play, the more tears they produce.

laglaglaglaglaglalglag, in the fine print it spells anet does not care at all. If they did this issue would of been fixed months ago and lag would only exist in wvw when orange swords popped. Not in spvp servers where there are 10 people on a map or in open pve when you’re in the least populated maps.

Your pc is fine and your internet provider is likely to be ok. It’s the terrible response from their servers that has no consistency. I’m sure you run into the same issues as many others, some days its flawless other days you have no clue what is going on and the game is unplayable for the time being.

Enjoyluck.2618:

Thief mug your stability away,

Mug deals damage, get your thief traits correct.

Also how does thief manage to get brought up into every discussion? Even in the ranger CDI discussion I see people kittening about how thief is unfair….

Drannon.8254:

o.o I don’t think they hate us, the nerf is applied to every one lol. We have so many ways to avoid damage at the moment (given you use the right weapons and utils), I think this change just makes it so we have less chances to make mistakes and still win. Oh, and I’m speaking about roaming, because what else are we really good at :/.

getting nerfed?

Anyways, we have ways to “evade” damage, we don’t have ways to soak up and recover like the rest. It’s like monks in D3 if you bought it and immediately regretted it. Evasion is nice and all but when a hit gets through that it hurts A LOT so ultimately it isn’t as good as it sounds.

Perma evade only works against slow attacking enemies like guardian or warrior hammer for example. Otherwise hits do slip through, and it isn’t a tickle. Defensive gear on a thief is rather weak too since we sit at the lowest health pool. To deal with conditions and heavy hits, best to spec for vitality. Sure you throw in some toughness but overall its not that great to gear for unless you get a lot of it. If you get a lot of it, you can’t really make up for the loss in dps. Overall, thieves either build rather tanky (dire/carrion-> condi, PVT/clerics-> venom share support) or squishy, there is almost no middle ground in that without noticeable sacrifices elsewhere.

Perma stealth is just bleh, a gimmick. You aren’t avoiding damage as much as avoiding a fight because you don’t know how to respond to your pursuer. Only people who abuse stealth are full glass cannons who wait for things like Shadow step to get off cooldown so they can safely jump in, dish damage out, and avoid being locked down. It’s boring as kitten to watch/fight against.

Thieves get to jump around, stealth and/or evade. Nothing really else to that.

Is that you in that photo burnfall on the steps to making sense?

If I can make a suggestion, don’t stop! Keep making your way up!

Cogbyrn.7283:

Spicyhash.7605:

like, what is even the counter to warriors? it’s so cheesy. they are like thieves in that they can run away and reset the fight and troll you forever.

The counter is knowing what they can do and avoiding the right things. Sort of how you counter any class.

They are nothing like Thieves, because they don’t ever break target and you can see everything they do coming in advance. It’s very far off from something like D/P Thief cheese. So very far.

Don’t really like the word tbh, idg where people even come up with these terms but either way, cheese is cheese and a mobility warrior is apart of that. Almost all warrior builds these days are, “cheese”.

I think that would actually be pretty good for a couple of reasons.

1. You’re rooted, so “spamming” it isn’t effective on its own.
2. Since you’re using a sword, it ties REALLY nicely with Infiltrator’s strike, to be similar to the Mesmer sword chain (immobilize→flurry).
3. stun on a thief just seems out of place.

+1 for removing the stun and its corresponding hit. Since you can’t spam IR for a constant immobilize (it has a split skill in front of it and gets rather expensive if used with PW over and over), it would remain balanced as in it wouldn’t get stronger or weaker, just require a higher skilled set up rather than quickness and spam 3.

I’ve thought about this as well, how stability ignores a large part of dueling. One thing I thought of was making stability work in the same way as fury where it doesn’t grant 100% of the effect but it lets you focus stats elsewhere. For example:

1) For every 50 armor you have, you gain 1% reduction in disabled time.

2) Stability grants 50% reduction in stun time versus 100%.

Goal: Give those who spec for toughness a bigger advantage. Right now, spec’ing for toughness gear is futile unless you get a considerable amount of it since conditions ignore it, and with the outrageous crit damage capabilities. Reason why the disable duration should scale off armor instead of toughness is heavy armor professions should have a more solid stance since they generally play frontline or up front builds and are generally balanced on mitigating damage.

As far as builds go, you can go full zerker on say a warrior or guardian but the loss in armor will not make stability a full on cc immunity. With this formula you would need atleast 2,500 armor with stability to ignore cc effects. However, those with + stun duration (sigil of penalization, traits), can surpass this.

Basically the idea is to further reward toughness as a defensive stat, where even without stability you have a reduction in disable time but to also not allow mechanics to completely negate others by the press of a button because like the OP, I too believe stability is a bit too strong.

This also ties into another thought that I’ve had which seemed a bit unbalanced, and that is stun locking. I think its great that people can time their skills together (talking wvw roaming mostly), but the complete destruction from the inability to respond is heartbreaking especially for classes that do not have stability. You also have people with stun lock builds who will just spam them all at once, turning a standard duel into a button smash with little to no skill to show for it other than that their build is entirely annoying. I suggest 1 simple solution.

1). When targeted by 3 disable effects in a row, within 1.5 seconds of one another, you gain immunity to disable skills for 2 seconds. This does not break stun, and this is a profession wide effect.

Goal: Reward spaced out stuns, and trash those who spam such skills. Also makes you choose wisely which disable you want to use, because repeated effects will just ignore the rest for 2 seconds no matter how long of a duration it has.

Chorazin.4107:

BobbyT.7192:

So your saying ok to reduce ini gain by via chill, because other classes skills not on cool down “may” not be useful in a particular situation, even though a thief with out initiative would be useless in most instances?

Why is the argument without initiative and chill cannot be removed under any circumstances? You will still be regenerating initiative, just at a reduced rate, seems every argument focuses around i have no initiative and will never have any and i can never remove chill.

Thats comparable to a Mesmer, all my weapon skills are on cool down, chill is way OP as now my class is completely useless. We all know this argument is a fallacy.

Chill can be removed by a friendly Guardian, via entering stealth, via using a condi cleanse.

Where are the suggestions for an equitable solution?

You keep looking too deeply at the condition effects and not what it does to the profession that is affected by it. Please play a thief and get chilled and discover what it means to be completely vulnerable. Not all thieves use stealth by the way, so you’re stealth condi clear statement isn’t valid as a universal solution thieves have. You get 10 skills on their separate cooldowns, we get 1 resource pool for all weapon skills, many of which are very expensive to use and/or completely useless.

1) would be great, acrobatics needs some on-demand condi clearing. Passive defensives on thief are horribly played out (pain response for example).

2) You can probably keep the ICD to 5 seconds if the trait’s functionality was when you successfully evaded an attack instead of just plain dodging. That way actively being in a fight vs running away and dodging rewards you further.

3) Kinda strange to have but I suppose worthy of a GM trait as far as staying in a fight rewards go.

4) I can see this being a serious issue in cliff-like maps and would take a long, long time to get used to since we’re so used to how far we dodge now even with swiftness.

TBH a grandmaster stealth trait in the acrobatics trait line is mind blowingly kitten. It isn’t reliable in any matter, and Q.Q’ers will exist no matter what we get. I bet they’ll call us op for having spammable stability now…. I’d rather see the full duration of revealed (3 sec pve/wvw, 4 sec pvp) grant stability. They don’t realize acrobatic’s isn’t a stealth line. If they go acrobatics they miss out on SA traits for stealth so overall their defenses in stealth are meh. If they go 30 in acrobatics and SA well… you have met yourself a wana-be bunker T-word and will never die to them unless you’re uplevled.

Since they have team deathmatch now, can we remove the points-on-kill from domination maps or at the very least tone it down? You should not promote zerging, even if they lose because of it still it leads to a lackluster match because you can’t actually test your build out in semi-even numbers (unless you’re a warrior/engi/Mesmer who just kites you and lives).

execullent.8560:

NinjaEd.3946:

Strange how the easiest profession in the game shows hate towards thieves…. two times I saw a livestream from anet playing thief and it was their SoM lesson (which was about 8 months too late, we already knew what proc’ed it) and them dying over and over in the new fractal preview.

Save the embarresment, if you’re terrible and you know it play warrior. Previews are kitten aweful if you spend it in the downed state.

easiest profession ? really?
If u don’t understand this topic pls don’t speak more!

? Maybe you should read context sir. I stated warrior (The class anet only seems to play and care for) is the easiest, further reinforcing the topic of the thread, Arena Net hate thieves?

…

Zacchary.6183:

Maybe everyone was so shocked at the -50% DAMAGE WHILE STEALTHED trait that they just didn’t.

Except it would replace shadow’s rejuvenation but anti-thief protestors dun care. They see a thief toy and immediately set out to smash it.

Strange how the easiest profession in the game shows hate towards thieves…. two times I saw a livestream from anet playing thief and it was their SoM lesson (which was about 8 months too late, we already knew what proc’ed it) and them dying over and over in the new fractal preview.

Save the embarresment, if you’re terrible and you know it play warrior. Previews are kitten aweful if you spend it in the downed state.

Ehhh I’d rework your gear a little then. There is no need to exceed 60% crit chance, especially in a group build where AoE fury should be present.

For your solo build, you’re better off putting the 5 points from CS into trickery for say vigor or uncatchable or even Sa for the added might. 5% on a thresh hold thieves barely can maintain isn’t worth it and the loss in prec/crit dmg will hardly be noticed. Caltrops on dodge are good for non-condi builds too, since it has a 5 second cripple base and since you have 30 in DA + lyssa it’s more like 7 seconds of them limping around.

For both builds, full on zerker is hit and miss. I wouldn’t be using venoms if that’s the playstyle you prefer, because escaping is that much harder even with d/p and SR. Skelk venom is still not the greatest choice for a solo healing skill. It is easily interrupted, the heal-on-hit can be negated by blind/block/evade/invuln ultimately trashing your overall recovery. It’s a nice idea in theory but 1 second believe it or not is a long time when dueling primarily for thieves who cannot make mistakes without heavy punishment. Same reason I rarely run HiS, the cast time is a pain but even still it pays off more than skelk. Since you already have a ton of precision, you could get some vitality with valk and lose no crit dmg from gear, or get the zerker/valk mixed trinkets for that little bump (no full valk trinkets sadly). Hp is valuable to a thief, since it works on conditions and direct damage + thief has the lowest health pool. Toughness has nearly 0 use in a thief unless heavily invested.

@OP, no. Healing power is not worth the investment on thief due to horrible scaling.

Stewie.3549:

I’m trying to make use of venoms in a solo build. It seems like used correctly they can work pretty well especially with life siphon. Sure it can be used well in groups but I would like to think that there is more than one way to use them. So far the build hasn’t been that bad for me. Also this build is mostly a power build not condi.

DV and BV have a place in any build as they don’t need any investment to be strong.

Question, what game mode are you using that in?

Zacchary.6183:

This whole thread is about players wanting an “I win” button against thieves.

Basically. Every day some genius hidden away thinks of a new thread to nerf thief. It’s almost like they’re paid to do this, how else could they of survived this long?

Here’s a thought, mobility reduction from chill on thief is bad enough. Ever think of what keeps thieves alive? Mobility, stealth, and evasion in various amounts. 66% reduced movement on say a engi or guardian is meh. They can take a round of punches and jump back up. Put that 66% on a thief while their condi clear is on cooldown, and it’s devastating. Thief has it harder in removing conditions, why do you think 2 of our healing skills deal entirely with a set of them (movement-withdraw, DoT-HiS)? We can’t face tank a group, and we can’t clear conditions like no tomorrow.

Few things to keep in mind with venom builds.

1. Mostly for group play, venoms on their own arn’t that great. The only venoms that work well without a venom share build are devourer and basilik. The others can be easily over rided by other sources or don’t bring nearly enough help to the thief.

2. Venoms power depends on the traits. For example, skale might provide more conditions/dmg than spiders, but if you have leeching venoms thats additional direct damage from each venom strike + healing. On my venom share build, I grant roughly 410 dmg for each venom strike. X 6 strikes from spider X 5 allies. Aldo since poison is being reapplied, their healing is going to suffer for that duration. Leeching venoms also adds defensive support with leeching venoms, and if you spread the uses out ( they do not stack healing) you can provide fairly long heal to allies.

3. Never use skelk venom unless you ’re running venom share. Its healing is aweful compared to withdraw and HiS. Even if you have 20% cd reduction the heal is just far too weak as a self heal. If used in a group, it pulls off impressive numbers.

4. Someone already answered this but, venom traits apply to venoms you share.

5. Ice drake venom is kitten. Not nearly long enough to stronger than devourer, and it is in the same place of movement condi clearing(war wh, withdraw, etc) so you might as well keep them still.

6. Venoms arn’t that good for condi dmg as they are utility. The torment isn’t worth investing for, and poison is easy to apply w/o spider. If your lookin for a condi build and plan to use venoms as apart of your DoT, don’t. There are stronger utilities that will pay off more. Not saying they do nothing but that they arn’t as viable atm for the purpose of DoT.

Hope that helps.

Bomb kit engi is a similar story. Had an extra charc slot, made 1, didn’t copy and paste however but I just looked at each individual trait line and picked what I wanted and bam. Havn’t taken it to Tpvp cuz I don’t like being a “T-word” where grownups are meant to be but in hotjoin its a joke. I just dodge and spam condis and they die or they chase me to hell and back and can’t kill me.

Normally, I’d say options like that are good. A Good trait line will have many things you want, take thief SA trait line for example. Bunch of good traits, and you can only pick 3. It’s what adds build variety.

However, in the ranger’s case they need restructure and buffs. Something I havn’t seen so far in the mentioned proposals for them. It’s one of those things a lot of professions struggle with, where traits are spread out and don’t make sense being alone. I don’t see how 2X projectile speed is GM worthy on its own. So you can’t strafe and evade ranger bow anymore…. GG?

perko.8309:

NinjaEd.3946:

Julie Yann.5379:

Tim.6450:

Seriously a trait in a build that can give your allies potentially 25 stacks of might permanently and you are complaining?!

The thing is that you have to invest 30 points into our most awful trait line in order to get it and you get no personal benefit out of it. Although I could see it work well with empower allies if your party does not have a Guardian or Ele.

Really? Tactics is your worst trait line? You must play pve dungeons all day cuz it most certainly is not the worst, ever hear of shout builds? Or wh condi conversion?

Yes, Tactics is the worst trait line. All the minor skills are “while reviving” = terrible. Yes, Tactics lends itself to shout builds, which really hasn’t been a thing for a while now. And few play the WH conversion since they fixed the bug months ago where extra condis were getting removed. Its current “as intended” state is rather underwhelming. And, unlike you, Julie is a valuable positive contributor to the warrior threads. Go stealth back to your thief thread.

You still get 2 condi clears in addition to the cripple/chill/immobilize clearing, even with the bug fixed it’s still strong in dealing with the condi spam that’s used these days. Also if banner is on cooldown and I see someone just go down in front of me, those minor traits do come in handy. My build is very beefy so I can take the 2 seconds it requires to get them up (unless the pain train is heading my way) and then get the might rolling in. Remember you are invulnerable for the short time when you are downed, so unhindered healing pays off. If you see a downed ally on the side lines and ignore them either that person is aweful and you know it hence why you ignored them, or you’re terrible and don’t know what group play is.

Minor traits shouldn’t influence your major trait choices, its why they’re called minor. They’re little bonuses, none of which in tactics have a draw back. Want a bad minor trait? Ill gladly give you Last Refuge.

Razor.9872:

Would make more sense for the trait to make arrow have a chance to be unblockable :\

That would certainly be worth 30 points. Better yet add some skill play to it and make them 100% unblockable after 900 range or something, knock them guardians out of their heal.

Julie Yann.5379:

Tim.6450:

Seriously a trait in a build that can give your allies potentially 25 stacks of might permanently and you are complaining?!

The thing is that you have to invest 30 points into our most awful trait line in order to get it and you get no personal benefit out of it. Although I could see it work well with empower allies if your party does not have a Guardian or Ele.

Really? Tactics is your worst trait line? You must play pve dungeons all day cuz it most certainly is not the worst, ever hear of shout builds? Or wh condi conversion?

@OP you dont deserve massive buffs, warrior already has so many viable build options its not necessary to give them more. Easy mode professions dont need anymore passive toys to play with.

They should just rework the acrobatics GM trait, it isn’t fitting in that trait line and it isn’t even effective especially as a GM trait. Like reduce damage while stunned with reduced stun duration would be fitting, something stealthless thieves need since they can just stealth and reposition as freely. 1s stability on an effect that acrobatic thieves don’t generally use, I just don’t get it. Thieves have asked for reliable stability in the past, but this doesn’t even come close to answering that request.

DA trait is kinda meh, unless you’re running full glass no thief is going 30 into DA, CS gives soo much more damage. SA has potential but it’s hard to compete with Shadow’s Rejuvenation. Trickery GM trait is neat tbh, looking forward to swapping sleight of hand despite how much I love it. CS conversion rate is awful and will likely not be used if it remains at 5%.

I wish it was a healing value that scaled off healing power, not 5%. 5% is not much even if you cleaved 5 players with PW with every single hit. It is off crits only, and rather low in effect. Should be 15% with single target skills and 10% with cleaving skills, that way aoe doesn’t get called op. Remember, this trait has to stand up against executioner and hidden killer, if its going to remove a chunk of dps it should add a chunk of healing.

icechai.2079:

Chicago Jack.5647:

icechai.2079:

No other class can claim that in the game.

Yep No other class can make that claim. Not a single class. Yep. Thieves are just tooooo stronk

Congrats, you found a Mesmer that can stealth half the amount a thief can and maybe juke people away. Oh yeah but if a thief wants to leave a fight there’s nothing the Mesmer can do. I’ve also never seen roaming mesmer teams get away from thief teams on jq/tc/bg

Except with LoS and terrain, you don’t need “perma stealth” to escape a fight. Also Mesmer can deal DIRECT DAMAGE while in stealth due to clones, and shattering clones costs almost nothing at the rate they can produce them. Mesmers hands down beat thief in any 1v1 at the same skill level, they have an answer to anything thief tries. People rage at thief over Mesmer because thief can perma or near perma stealth (depends on build) which makes fighting them rather annoying but not impossible (clearly shown in video).

Give thieves better out of stealth sustain for both stealth and non-stealth builds and there will be no reason to cower in stealth for 10+ seconds unless they are outnumbered. All of them outnumbered videos are of a stealth thief, you won’t see a non-stealth thief 1v3+and win. Point is stealth is a culprit not thief.

You can’t honestly call condi guardian a buff, lol. However the new GM traits on thief don’t seem all that appealing but its not all bad.

Power thief ain’t going 30 into DA unless they enjoy being aa to death as a full glass cannon. Also they aren’t going to waste time with a mediocre heal over executioner or even hidden killer. The 50% dmg reduction might have some competition for stealth builds if they pair it with shadow protector but I doubt it works against conditions which is a major problem for thief (condi spam that is). Stability on reveal, seems pointless especially for 1 second. Not saying it should be perma, but just the thought of it is kitten. Make Hard to catch grant stability and ss away (or break stun atleast), you can’t work with 1s especially for a GM trait. Last one seems promising for p/d condi builds tbh, and its nice because its in a trait line that has condi dmg but sleight of hand is pretty tough to beat.

Maskah.1486:

Condition removal much? Unlike straight up damage conditions can be outright negated.

By some perhaps. But not every profession has the luxury of easy condi clearing.

Colt.9051:

Perma stealth thieves (both power and condi damage) are gonna be SOOOOO much more annoying to kill now, even if you can outplay them, a 50% damage reduction in stealth is way too much.

You realize they give up the infamous Shadow’s Rejuvenation for that right? I mean it had to compete with it.

BrunoBRS.5178:

logged in to voice my support as a thief main, because i think it’s silly that thieves get a free pass on a lot of stuff because of initiative. now i think initiative is a really interesting mechanic that allows thief skills to have a very different approach than everyone else in the game. however, to think that a shutdown mesmer (ironically, the bane of my assassin in GW1, since it would cut all my skills and energy regen while dealing DoT) can’t do anything to a thief beyond a quick scare is silly.

thieves do need to face the consequences of being interrupted and chilled just like everyone else. maybe the chill shouldn’t slow ini regen down 66%, but that’s a discussion for another thread. the point here is that it is quite honestly unfair that being skillfully countered means nothing to the thief. so i’m here, voicing my support that the skill should, yes, be shut down when interrupted, with the ini cost being unaffected. the simple solution is make it so initiative is only deducted from the skill after the cast is over.

I couldn’t call it a quick scare, they still hurt a lot unless your roaming in which case you can get insane dps with the luxury of defences (foods, wvw guard stacks, oils, different runes/stat sets). Initiative is fine, what I’d like is for a rework on the repeated use of skills aka spamming. I don’t think its skilled at all, and it makes us look bad. In pvp often I’ll mock my own teammate if I see them spamming hs or pw, because its pathetic.

Rework the initiative costs of the skills and make activation of the same skill cost 1 more initiative each time. Debuff lasts 1.5 seconds. So atm, spamming Hs 3 times would cost you roughly 12 initiative (1 back from natural initiative regen) assuming the cost of HS was to remain at 3. Or even add a 1 second cooldown on skill activation, so literal spamming isn’t allowed. I just hate seeing thieves do it, there are 3 other skills (unless you’re d/d, in which case I’m sorry for you..), use them. I doubt the intention of initiative was to permit this kind of behavior, the goal was to allow quick decisions and/or recovery if you are interrupted. As bizarre as balance is atm I still don’t think anyone at Anet is that kitten to want anyone to press the same button over, and over, and over, and over (excluding zhaitan ending).

Thief has some nice ones but I don’t see the CS trait being all that great at 5%. BS for 10,000, you only heal for 500 and you can’t repeat that instantly. HS for even 5k, you only heal for 250. The conversion should be a bit higher imho, like 7 or 10% considering its off crit hits only and not all crit hits are going to heal you for anything noticeable. If anything it should heal for 15% off single target skills, and 10% off cleaving skills, that way pw doesn’t somehow manage to get called op again….

Warrior has some broken ones, as usual.

Mesmer, same deal. Just give them more ways to be unbeatable in a duel.

Necromancer has some really nice ones, none of which seem all too powerful even as a GM trait. The healing life blast would be fun to play in wvw

Guardian as usual, gets buffs in the wrong places. Burn doesn’t need buffs, condi guardian needs conditions!

Engi, boons galore. Might as well give them consume ectoplasm as an auto attack.

Ele has some neat ones, but I know ele the least so meh. I’d say immunity to crits is pretty significant though.

Ranger has highs and lows. Love the thought of survival skills being that much better, but the projectile trait? LB already flies insanely fast, having a GM trait ONLY bump that speed seems pathetic.

Chris.4527:

Thats a shame, the best thieves ive ever fought are on mag. To bad you wont be able to fight them!

And also Brando, this is not about SPVP where the main build is 10-30-0-30, SPVP cant support shadow arts since the crit dmg lock, etc.

Who in the kitten runs 10/30/0/30/0? Also whoever said SA isn’t used in s/tpvp? I don’t think we play the same game. I wouldn’t call thieves who cry in stealth for 10+ seconds “the best thieves”. If you’re talking about thief squads, guess what, they are great at focus fire. They can all go power BS and melt a target in seconds, but that’s multiple people and something you can’t call op or they would nerf the party count from 5 to 1. #partyop.

Also, can’t spam CnD. Not sure what your definition of spam is, but CnD costs 6 initiative and is kitten easy to avoid. You don’t have anything to backup your claims other than an opinion.

You say sa heals too much? Pretty sure engi/ele/guardian/warrior can heal far more. A couple of those professions can even turn around and blow up roaming thieves if they’re spec’ed to do so which doesn’t require much other than a mind. SA is 1 of 2 defensive trait lines thieves get, and you can’t deal with it so you just want no build diversity? Whats your ideal enemy thief, 30/30/0/x/x full glass zerker? You can aa them to death before reveal wears off. You’re not experienced in this matter, and need to know that and start learning counters vs. throwing a fit and saying “I don’t wana”. People have given advice from another profession’s perspective, as well as general help and you just toss it aside thinking you’re to good for it.

Zenith.7301:

I love how thieves are comparing it to warrior healing without factoring in the part where most classes can’t hit you in stealth because stealth disables targeted attacks and ground placed aoe is not only weak but scarce and in some cases totally absent from other classes.

So while the warrior is broken and regens more, he is also not stealthed ever and is taking constant damage to counter some of the regen whereas the thief stops all damage dead on its tracks by stealthing and heals to boot.

And all of those thief perks also come with the bonus of 5-6k backstabs on medium high toughness builds.

Hell, I’m sure warriors would love being able to do eviscerates while invisible so nobody can dodge that kittened damage.

Necro- Wells, marks, DS
Engi- nades, bombs, non-target based kit attacks
Guardian- gs, staff, heck even torch
Warrior- lb, gs, axe, hammer #3 and burst, stomp, etc
Mesmer- counter to thief
Ranger- traps, torch, entangle
elementalist- king of aoe

Aoe attacks aren’t scarce, even my axe/focus d/d necro can locate thieves, and often I have knocked them out of sr and killed them moments later. SA is not op, its a defensive trait line that lets thieves run glassy builds. Even with 30 in SA, thief toughness/armor are not high, they still go down easy due to being the lowest health tier. If a thief is not glassy and they’re running SA, chances are they are running some t-word spec and are there more to just annoy you than kill you. Only reason you should die to such builds is if you’re new and/or easily fooled.

Invisible =/= Invincible. Sooner you understand that the sooner we can see balance vs. flat nerfs because people aren’t willing to L2P.

They shoot the ground and leap, they don’t jump through the air like some circus performer while shooting people.

Ghostwolf.9863:

Zero Day.2594:

See that skill needed some bug fixing… obstructed 80% of the time because a blade of grass is sticking out, 9.5% of the time misses, 0.25% lands but is blocked/mitigated and 0.25% of the time hit and does damage… Costs 3 init.

Might as well have a skill that just uses up 3 init and doesn’t do anything, at least in the toolip it can say “Does nothing.”

This doesn’t sound immersive, they should also fix some mechanisms.

Missing Dagger.
Throw a dagger that misses your opponents, and doesn’t return to you, so you will have to go and pick it up to throw it again.

better yet, “Throw dagger” Throw your dagger at your foe, which will undoubtly miss, and disable off-hand dagger skills until you pick it back up.

I’ve seen no word on what happened, and this latest patch not only left us nothing to do for 2 weeks, it neglected the many problems pvx has (open world events, pvp balance, thief golem porting, etc)

Zero Day.2594:

You know, they could have “fixed” the toolip to properly say that it gives fury and vigor as opposed to what they did.
:P Eh, NOT COMPLAINING. Just giving another perspective .

dancing dagger cripple all over again

Shemsu.8721:

Lert.6287:

Black Teagan.9215:

Dean Calaway.9718:

Jelzouki.4128:

Why does everyone think we’re OP?

Because when you go on youtube and type Thief vs Zerg you see things no other profession can pull off.

Yes, if you search only after “thief vs zerg” then will you never find any other videos, especially these were the other classes do the same.

He didn’t say “you won’t see other proffessions” but “you will see things no other proffession is capable of” – please, read with understanding next time than trying to be wise-champ in here.

Which is a pointless statement as every profession is capable of things that no other profession can do……

Lert, please take your thief and run w/e power spec and try running front line with them. Then try it on warrior, or guardian, or even necro. Notice your thief can’t do what a guardian, or warrior, or necro can do? You really have no argument to be made, other than that you got jumped out in wvw and had no response. Sorry, L2P or reroll so you aren’t so glassy.

What’s up with people wanting rifles? Bad enough we have pew/pew with 0 mobility/evasion skills, you want to hulk a rifle around leap through the air sniping people? Not very thief themed…

I’d prefer off-hand sword, Mesmer’s get it for some odd reason and we don’t. The masters of dual wielding can’t dual wield swords. Idk if we need lb, what purpose would it serve other than a 1200 range weapon? We have ranged power and condi builds already granted the power ranged sucks kittens but it can always be turned around.

Simple issue, you’re using a group spec and you got jumped by a dueling assassin spec, someone who intends to 1v1. I’ve been jumped on my warrior running back to my group before, and tried fighting back (all I can do is poke at him before he vanished). Wouldn’t call it op, just that I’m not trying to duel out there and (s)he is so its no wonder they would perform better. There is no foul play here, thief roamer is not unbalanced.

Nerf passive heal(~300), increasing passive healing power scale, drastically bump the active heal base and healing power scaling.

Idm a regen warrior doing well at regenerating, what I do mind is 0 investment into healing power and they get near 400 hp/s. Makes it far to easy to spend stats elsewhere.

Op, if you want SA nerfed, give us something in return. You realize how dependent some builds are for SA right? Only reason thief CAN run full glass cannon, is because of SA. Not that its recommended, I find little to no trouble with glass thieves except in numbers but really, you can’t call imbalance when you are out numbered…

Give stealth thieves a reason not to stay in stealth for 10+ seconds and reset fights, and then we’ll talk. Oh btw, we have to be in stealth for that regen, and its still less than warrior’s Healing signet. Even if they nerfed it the 8% or w/e, and that’s a grandmaster trait in the healing trait line. 300+ hp/s looks like a lot because we have the lowest health pool tier, so its no wonder why it looks like we take a few seconds to get back to full but it ain’t hard to take us down to low. Just sayin, they don’t call it glass cannon for nothing.

so……. This isn’t gw1? Gotchya. Now that’s settled, where is this blade merchant?

Lert.6287:

Believe it or not – I don’t need advices.
Just posted my two coppers on why I think thieves are out of balance.
Pure ignorance is saying “thieves are fine, easy to counter, all you have to do is…”

Ignorance would be a few being blinded by the truth, what you have here is a bunch of people who say thief can be countered, and you closing your eyes saying “lalalallalalalalalalalalalalala I can’t hear you!”. It ain’t op if it can be countered by everyone, just not everyone has the will to L2P and ask questions. I highly doubt that thief had 0 power bonuses(might, bloodlust, signet, food) when he jumped you, or your posted defensive stats are just a terrible joke of copy/paste.

Black Teagan.9215:

frifox.5283:

That’s up to you. I’m not here to interpret the data, only to report it.

Ok.

Maybe it could be a great idea, if someone create a thread about the generally mechanics of this game.

He’s just showing how the major trait is not working properly.