Guild Wars 2

Simple. Remove this pointless feature, it does no good and only interferes with posting. I don’t know any other site that does this except for when you completely exit the window.

Asomal.6453:

Asomal.6453:

Cloak and Dagger: Descrease casting time to 0.25s
Dancing Dagger: Projectile travels faster and it’s more accurate

There you go.

Just to compliment my post, since the discussion was prolonged. I honestly think those 2 changes would sufficient to solve some of D/D’s problems. However, if is there one thing holding it back, it’s Death Blossom. It’s a condition based skill, in a mostly power type weapon, it just doesn’t fit.

Now, how do we fix it? I think it needs a completly overhaul. This is my proposition:

Death Blossom
- Evades into the enemy’s back (just like Ranger’s sword 3), applying 1 second of immobilize and 7 stacks of vunerability. Deals 0 damage. Has a 0.5 seconds aftercast time.

Yes, 0 damage. People have always complained about evade spam. It’s not fun do play against and it’s way too easy cheesy. The new hotness is PW, but Disabling Shot is also a target for the complaints. But don’t get me wrong, 0 is good for the set! It means you won’t get revealed while performing it. So it’s basically a skill for setting up Backstabs, hence 1 second immobilize, or just getting into your enemy’s back, putting in use all those traits/runes that benefits from flanking your foe!

What? Idk about that. D/D doesn’t need more skills applying vulnerability, it just becomes redundant. Death blossom has a nice spot in the d/d kit it’s just the results and numbers aren’t anywhere near suitable. It’d be like adding another high spike damage for the #3 for d/d when we already have HS and CnD. A full evade with a short aftercast to avoid rewarding spamming it, and d/d would have a nice meaningful kit. Fix dancing dagger and all 4 skills for d/d will be of use and easily compete with d/p. Quite frankly I want to use d/d but I just hate not having the #3 and #4 from d/p (I rarely ever use bps unless im stomping or combo it with blinding powder to escape a fight).

Flumek.9043:

1)Just saying that same reveal should go for summing phantasms in stealth…. back to teef

2) shortbow #3 spam could use some adjustments, maybe making evade skils disables during imobilize?

3) The autoatack bounce is just bad luck sry. There are many profesions, builds, weapon sets so 1 will always be preffered in some scenarios. Ele has similiar bounce while necro has no actual cleave. + any zerker vs zerker is gonna hurt, I think if the evasivnes was adressed it would be enough to prevent a thief kiting you to death with 1-3-1-3-1-3

1). Don’t disagree.

2). That’s kind of the point of SB #3 spam, because you can’t dodge roll while immobilized. A stationary thief is a dead thief.

3) Common issue that is fair to say about thief. Repeated use of the same skill is rather frustrating and doesn’t lead to an interesting duel of any kind.

1. Dancing Dagger: On d/d, it does just about no good. Why? It has low damage, and serves the same purpose as HS as a gap closer but HS is far more reliable. As a projectile finisher, you don’t get fields to work off of as a thief, so it essentially does no good on any front. They should remove the bounce and cripple and add poison to it with a much faster projectile. Even on a bounce the dps is aweful. Not only would this give more control to a D/D in a fight to hinder their healing, it would help p/d to be more viable in pvp. In wvw it may need tweaking since p/d can hurt fairly bad due to pve specific buffs but in pvp, relying on bleeds as the only real DoT is underwhelming. Swap to sb you lose the bleed pressure, and torment, serpent’s touch is only every 21-35 seconds lasting 10.5 seconds. The poison can last say 4 seconds in wvw and 5 seconds in pvp.

1. Cloak And Dagger: Easily spotted, and heavy investment for a maybe. Either decrease cast time to 1/4 seconds or reduce initiative cost to 5. Damage is fine imo, and it isn’t spammable so I don’t see the point in bumping its damage anyways, point for it is to lead into a stealth attack. As a combo (CnD precast, mug, BS) doesn’t need more burst in there. Issue is the defense it offers is easily missed. For P/d you’re kinda forced into using it for sneak attack but for D/X burst, you’re better off using d/p because you have a guarantee stealth, along with an on-demand daze and blind unblockable teleport.

1. for D/D, death blossom: Just needs to be a full evade. If you have to shave off some damage or the bleed duration fine, but a power d/d build has no use in this because it is far too unreliable. Leave a short aftercast so it can’t be a perma evade (1/4 aftercast?) but make the evade last the duration of the animation (1/2 second).

gartz.7013:

so thief can’t have a what, maybe 4 second evade spam? leavening them useless after they’ve burnt their inti? a warrior( i know i know going for the easy target) can trait him or herselves to have, and correct me if I’m wrong, 6- 8 seconds of endure pain and then their shield block to run back into a tower and /laugh at me? i see your point lets nerf the thief more

Shield block is still susceptible to some field skills that are unblockable (naturally), like static field, marks (if traited), etc. Sadly most warriors I see blow every single cooldown in a fight, ultimately making them useless after the 10 or w/e seconds expire. Even when you put a wall skills up they just continue to button smash with LB. Basically, it isn’t hard to stop a warrior from entering a tower, ele on the other hand….(mist form, teleport, success. If for w/e reason they don’t succeed, vapor form, success.)

AikijinX.6258:

You can no longer permanent stealth. The “infusion of shadows” trait has been fixed. You gain 2 ini when ENTERING stealth. You don’t keep regaining ini when you’re in stealth doing stealth stacking.

You can actually, you just look like a fool doing it.

X/X/20/20/15 (w/e + patience; then w/e with quick recovery) + infiltrator’s signet and blinding powder using d/p. You can toss SR if you feel comfortable but I didn’t have to. Needless to say I didn’t use the build for anything more than seeing if perma stealth still existed, and it most certainly does. Problem is it does you no good.

Jelzouki.4128:

You need to understand that every class has its advantages, if theif didn’t have some of the skills people complain about, the class would be way too underpowered.

It would be the scum of a warrior’s boot. Anet needs to add DR to spamming weapon skills before the Q.Q piles rack up so high that they start nerfing more weapon skills.

Just kite them for 8 seconds, its not that difficult. Yes the skill is a bit ridiciulous to have full immunity but it also is hilarious to watch a war blow every single cd to gain “invulnerability” only to sit there for 40+ seconds with 0 utility outside of 1-5 spam and weapon swap.

They haven’t released all of their patch notes. So far none of the bug fixes were mentioned so I imagine some of the other changes were left out to.

They dont need to nerf condi dmg, it already has restriction in play and can be removed by condi clear which prioritizes DoT conditions. What they need is more suitable condi clear, as it is quite clear which professions have little issues with them and which almost lose it passively on top of short cd condi cleanses/conversions.

One of the reasons I’d say not flat nerf condi dmg is some condi builds are already weak, and also conditions are pathetic in pve since people hit the 25 cap in seconds. No need to nerf other peoples’ fun just because its an issue in pvp. Also I think skills like combustive shot (war lb burst) need rework. There should not be such a high up time for condition effects. I like the war oh sword change, because it doesnt nerf to the dps the skill puts out, but it does open up counterplay without being perma tormented.

CnD is highly telegraphed and therefore, easy to dodge or negate with blind/block. P/d is acceptable in wvw dueling but is aweful in pvp, where there is no food, or dire stats, or perplexity runes, etc. Not saying you necessarily run all of those, but those things make p/d much more viable to where their conditions actually last a while and you don’t have to give up as much defenses.

evilapprentice.6379:

Bazzoong.7145:

So since I got my 1st infraction point here and my post got deleted, I respectfully and totally without insults to your cognitive capacities and your knowledge about the mechanics of this game, ask you to take a look at this:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Video-New-meta-no-OffHand-for-poor-people/first#post3837475
I consider this free educational advice about this game’s mechanics and do in no way want to be disrespectful.

Please forgive me if my inadequte english may create any bad emotional experiences for anyone reading this.

I totally respect you all I also do not wish to humor you in any way this game and anything about it is to be taken 100% serious…

I am not saying this to be rude, but I am genuinely confused as to what your point is.

If you’re trying to point out how cheesy the SA trait-line is for WvW, I agree with you. The point of my suggestion was to remove all trait related value from sitting in stealth – instead, SA’s most common traits will instead be tied to being revealed, which will make sure thieves have to be in active combat to receive the lines biggest benefits (healing, condition removal, etc). It would have the added benefit of also fixing SA for PvP, since now thieves don’t need to sit in stealth to reap the rewards of their spec.

My suggestions would make the build/playstyle in the video you linked much weaker – no more sitting in Shadow Refuge stealth to regen, most importantly.
Let’s also note that, of the fights I watched (the first 3), the posters opponents were laughably bad. That last Rage-inducingly-bad fight with just a dagger OH vs that awful mesmer would be impossible with my suggested changes, because you wouldn’t be rewarded with HP and condition cleanses for just sitting in stealth – you’d only earn them by using an attack from stealth and getting the revealed debuff.

I think his point is that most people are pretty bad. I watched the video, and the Mesmer died to 1 skill. Clearly there is some barrier to entry when it comes to camera turning with A D vs your mouse (not saying you, saying your as in a general statement).

Killface.1896:

This immune to crit is kinda crazy op,everyone that are going as crit dps get 66% of there stats removed when fighting a ele Oo

Earth isn’t a dps attunement, and its a GM trait for a defensive trait line. If an ele sits all day in earth you do no harm by spamming aa.

Besides it adds counter play for being rather squishy (light armor, low health pool, etc). Thief enter stealth, swap to earth, avoid crit BS. Spot warrior kill shot inc, swap to earth. Spot guardian focus bomb inc, swap to earth, etc. In the mean time you’re just bunkering in there to avoid a burst, you won’t see any ele stay in earth for long.

Zacchary.6183:

We do have a blowgun. Its called p/x. Its a gun that blows.

HA! but true ; ;

I wish we had a boomerang OH. Ohh the possibilities, I’d love it.

Sword/B #3: [Blind spot] Throw your boomerang to return to you, blinding foes on its course (moves in an arc). 4 initiative. Range 900 units. Blind duration 5 seconds. 1 second less blind for each target hit before (target 1 gets 5 seconds, target 2 gets 4 seconds, etc).

Dagger/B #3: [Wind of the blade] Chuck your boomerang, destroying projectiles in its path. 4 initiative. Range 900 units. Radius of projectile destruction 130 units. Combo Finisher: Whirl.

Pistol/B #3: [Marked for Injury] Precisely throw your boomerang to cripple your foe and mark them. While marked, conditions applied to them last 15% longer. Cripple duration 3 seconds (not affected by mark). Marked duration 4 seconds. Range 900. 4 initiative. Combo Finisher: 100% projectile.

OH #4 [Round up] Chuck your boomerang to bounce between foes transferring 1 condition between foes each bounce (only transfers 1 condition from you at the initial throw if successfully hit). Max bounces 3. Combo finisher: 10% projectile. 5 Initiative

OH #5 [Poison infused handle] Throw your boomerang at your foe, exploding and causing poison. Poison duration 6 seconds. Combo finisher: Blast. 6 initiative.

Selver.1307:

yanoch.7051:

Karolis.4261:

Sithaco.4673:

Ah this thread :’)

OP, how is this any different to an Elementalist mist form stomping or a Warrior endure pain + stability stomping or any other class invulnerability stomping?

/thread

Actually its very different. Mist form and Endure pain+stability makes user invulnerable to everything. Stealth only makes thief invisible.
For OP… And what will you do if thief is stomping your friend without stealth? Well do the same when hes stealthed = same results.

Endure pain is not invulnerable. Conditions/CC goes through it.

Stealth is not invulnerable. Conditions/CC/DIRECT DAMAGE goes through it.

If only the Q.Q’ers knew that. They probably think we can pair the new SA GM trait with shadow’s rejuvenation

I find reading a Mesmer Q.Q about thief rather difficult without scratching my head. Mesmer can out-glass thief, because their clones can do a lot of the heavy lifting. It is like putting two betta fish in the same tank and one can destroy the other one at any given moment, but the Mesmer once mastered, is far stronger and thief has to really time their burst or it kills them.

Another thing to consider is the rune/sigil rework. Your build may or may not be affected by the full 10% if rune set X gives you better stats then what you were using before.

What are you talking about, last refuge is working as intended, as a crutch for thief.

In the eyes of those who “balance” thief, it is perfect.

Zerker will still be best in slot for dps. Its just a full zerker will lose roughly 10% dps. So if you crafted a bunch of asc zerker gear, it didn’t go to waste.

CrimsonNeonite.1048:

I think it could work out okay but depends which boons get’s priority.

It will likely follow the basic boon-condi conversion chart, meaning stability won’t be practical anymore. Protection vigor and aegis will be the best defenses for condi conversion basically.

Dakota.4591:

NinjaEd.3946:

A thief at 25% health with stability is meaningless. Also last refuge has a considerable cooldown, not something you can rely on in the midst of a duel.

Think you misunderstood me. Not a trait that grants stability using Last Refuge’s mechanics. Completely taking Last Refuge out and pretend it never happened, and just putting AE in its current form in its place.

If that’s the case its still pretty bad. Just like hard to catch, its too clunky to work with and not worth a GM trait (H2C used to be GM, still not worth it even as a master). Also many people have pointed out the incredibly obvious, why get stability and soak up CC when you can evade its effects and the damage that comes with it? I mean you’re already in acrobatics.

BTW I was replying to OP, sorry for misunderstanding. It would be suitable as a 5 point adept SA minor trait, but only reason I say that is because Last refuge is bad and anything beats it. In either case, both AE and LR are both highly unreliable and like you said, boil down to pure luck. Minor traits shouldn’t have drawbacks, and revealing yourself just to soak up cc is a drawback imo.

A thief at 25% health with stability is meaningless. Also last refuge has a considerable cooldown, not something you can rely on in the midst of a duel.

I’d rather have them scrap last refuge, put Infusion of shadow (2 initiative upon entering stealth), and come up with a valid adept major trait for SA to replace it. Heck even put AE as that replacement and just come up with something good for a GM acrobatics trait like successful evasion of an attack removes 2 conditions with a 15 second ICD or something. Its a GM trait, it should fill some big shoes especially for a playstyle that focuses less on stealth and more on evasion/positioning.

caveman.5840:

now i really hope that make some serious changes with (assassins equilibrium).

don’t really want to retire my s/d

Haven’t seen any nerfs to S/d yet. Aside from piling on more kitty litter to your list of traits, it doesn’t look all that grey.

Rather than asking to reveal on attack rather than hit, why not make blocking skills like counterblow, illusionary counter, etc to not proc unless a target is out of stealth? Timed use therefore would be rewarded, and we wouldn’t have to ask for a ridiculous nerf to thief again.

As for the aegis thing, its fine as is. Aegis is a tell card in where the thief is. When it comes off, big letters scream “Block”. It’s pretty obvious the thief is on you for a backstab (the only melee stealth attack worth worrying about), so dodge or turn around or rain dps/aoe on you. BS won’t hit hard unless the thief pumps power/crit dmg, meaning they will be more squishy the harder it hits. Here’s a basic scenario I will paint.

Guardian: See’s thief enter stealth, has aegis up. Seconds later their aegis pops off. They can use gs #2 or #5, hammer #5 or 4, run forward and throw down staff #5, #5 on shield, #3 on mace, #5 on focus, etc. Basically you are to tire out the thief and exhaust their stealth. If they start blowing cooldowns (utility) to maintain the stealth you’re just making them that less threatening if they try to escape later on. Personally #2 on GS would do the best because it hits hard and is a short cooldown so it is most reliable in scaring the thief.

Why is thief always brought up?!?! Idgi, people get upset and run out of things to say so they just toss us into the mix of things so people will have a common enemy.

Thief is not op, its a class that requires experience to counter, just like every other pvp environment in every game ever. Also most thieves are terribad, even in tpvp.

Lyssa had 2 uses for the 6th bonus (the one that is getting nerfed) IMHO I think it served as a better condi clear than it did for gaining boons, although the boons were pretty awesome to have since thief generally lacks them. I’m saddened that we can’t get on demand stability on a moderate cooldown anymore but eh, maybe new runes will be a viable replacement for lyssa.

I think they could of done better by simply changing the boon access or having it leach nearby enemy boons when you cast an elite (up to 5 boons total, only affecting up to 5 targets), instead of flat out removing the boon access. Boon conversion is clunky anyways, because now thief can’t get stability from the rune’s 6th bonus without having stability prior to it’s application, which is next to impossible. Best benefit of this boon conversion would be with vulnerability (protection) and bleeding or chilled (vigor) or burning (aegis). Rest is just too low in duration or not that great at the current boon conversion durations. It will still help in dealing with condi dumps thankfully.

If so, I want finishing to remove invulnerable status as well as stability.

mango.9267:

NinjaEd.3946:

Also whirling axe does little to no good on a condi thief, so it turns from a dps skill to a highly circumstantial skill for a whirl+projectile reflect which you can never really work with. In the mean time, you can’t dodge out of it so for melee classes, your just a ballerina trying to get unstuck while it covers your 35 second gap closer.

Whirling axe is good even on condi thieves. Whirl in a poison or smoke field. Reflects warriors’ pin down/kill shot, engi pistols, thief pistols, mesmer wind of chaos/iduelists, ranger lb knockback, and more. And if you wanna cancel it, just autoattack… why would you want to use up a dodge for that anyway?

NinjaEd.3946:

Also none of the stolen skills are impossible to counter.

Isn’t that a good thing? Why do you want something that’s impossible to counter? Play and counterplay makes fights more interesting. And, for the record, most other profession mechanics have counterplay mechanics as well — dodge/blink to avoid shatters, take the flurry and return the bleeds to the warrior, and spam /laugh at ranger pets.

Most of the stolen abilities are really good. Just because there’s counterplay doesn’t change that fact.

Like i said though, circumstantial but also in the way of steal and can’t be canceled once used when activated.

I dint mean tht stolen skills should be impossible to counter, was stating that the stolen skills are not as op as people claim. I’m sure uve seen “stolen skills op” threads, when its really not if people are open minded. The fact that they are not broken means letting us have the stolen skill(s) fill up f2 or more would not lead to broken combinations if done carefully.

Gulesave.5073:

evilapprentice.6379:

I like the idea of each class stolen from offering a set item for each slot.

F2 – Direct damage oriented – works well for power/crit builds.
F3 – Condition damage oriented – works well for condition based builds.
F4 – Support – not tailored for either build, just offers some sort of support item.

That way whirling axe isn’t mostly useless for condition build, and throw gunk isn’t mostly useless for a power/crit build.

I was thinking of something like that, but using the existing soft trinity: damage, control, and support.

Also, keep in mind that enemies only have professions in PvP. Stolen items in PvE are semi-random—depending on creature—and pulled from a much longer list: 26 different items, as opposed to 8.

Maybe they could change what predetermined item you steal depending on your chosen stats.

If you have a bunch of healing power, the stolen skill is more support like (steal from ele get an on-demand frost aura for example).
If you have a bunch of condition damage, something along the lines of condition (example of ele, burning rock to apply burn)
If you have a bunch of precision, something more direct damage related (example of ele, the basic 10 sec chill).

Atleast the stolen skills would be more catered towards your build. Although a set of 3 and 1 to choose would certainly give a lot of tools for the thief to play with, like as a power build you may still want the frost aura, options are always nice.

A suggestion I’ve heard a while back, turn infiltrator’s signet into steal, as in while off cooldown gain 1 initiative every 10 seconds and remove the stun break part. This would simply require a change of the passive for infiltrator’s signet. Initiative is universal, so if said thief didn’t care to use steal as just a gap closer (say they don’t trait for steal), they can know it is benefiting them still. It may require a rework on initiative once more however which is wise to leave alone so things don’t start shifting all too quick.

Interceptor.2653:

NinjaEd.3946:

Now thief can never get stability outside of dagger storm and steal/LS. Yes, I left out assassin’s equilibrium for a reason.

It has been duly noted that you don’t value accuracy.

It is also duly noted you are the worst person to get in arguments with, and every time I see your post I soon find a lengthy reply between you and some other poor fella. So, keep your 1.3 second stability to yourself bud, I’ve no interest in talking shop with you. If you have an issue feel free to send personal messages so it doesn’t look so obvious that you are trying to derail the thread to your liking. Good Day to you.

Its like watching yishis, those people….. how does a Mesmer die to 1 skill?

Great positioning, interesting build. But man you must be in tier 1, so many baddies haha.

Had fun watching the video though, good work.

Now thief can never get stability outside of dagger storm and steal/LS. Yes, I left out assassin’s equilibrium for a reason.

Renny.6571:

NinjaEd.3946:

snip
Thief gets a gap closer and a pre determined stolen skill if steal makes contact and you aren’t blinded/blocked/evaded.

Untraited, a thief gets a gap closer that also grants one of the following:

• 10 second Chill. Good thing attunement recharge is also affected by chill, yay balance.
• Projectile reflect with massive pbaoe damage. It’s better than a Warrior’s own axe 5.
• Heal/Cleanse water field.
• Longest fear in the game, also pbaoe.
• Longest single target daze in the game.
• On demand stealth+blind.
• All boons.

Don’t try argue any of these aren’t useful in most scenarios lolol.

And need I remind you steal isn’t a Thief’s only mechanic? You have initiative too. That alone is insanely strong and, in my honest opinion, gamebreaking.

Except you don’t get those by choice, you steal from a warrior you get whirling axe, not a pamphlet of choices. Also whirling axe does little to no good on a condi thief, so it turns from a dps skill to a highly circumstantial skill for a whirl+projectile reflect which you can never really work with. In the mean time, you can’t dodge out of it so for melee classes, your just a ballerina trying to get unstuck while it covers your 35 second gap closer.

Only a few stolen skills are universal, yet still not 100% in your control. You can’t run into a 2v1 and assume 1 is a Mesmer and get all boons to deal with cc chains. Steal and initiative are part of the thief kit, make quick decisions. Waltz into a 2v1 vs necro and say engi, you can make the obvious decision to steal from necro and fear them both. Walz into a fight against a guardian and ele, basically neither one is all that good. The chill could be 100 seconds long, condi cleanse is soo easy on an ele, 4 second daze is good compared to most dazes, yet still not that much of an impact (4 seconds goes rather quick). Point is, steal should not be covered up by potentially meaningless skills.

Also none of the stolen skills are impossible to counter.
-Ranger water field: Rain AoE on the spot, don’t stand near it or they can spam hs in it and keep healing while hitting you or spam cluster bomb. Stand back and ranged if you don’t have a ton of AoE, they will just be wasting time standing in the field and won’t out-regen your dps with blast finishers.
-Elementalist chill: cleanse? You’re an ele…..
-Guardian Daze: Deal with it, its a melee daze unless you’re standing still rezzing someone it won’t do you much harm, and almost all run shelter so good luck interrupting the heal.
-Engineer gunk: For condi basically or a quick chaos armor but won’t last all that long anyways unless you mange to lock them on top of the field. Overall not that effective.
-Warrior whirling axe: Still vulnerable to melee, and cc. See a thief spinning axes? How about stop pressing 1-5 on your lb, #3 and burst are the only ones that can hit for that duration.
- Mesmer Ectoplasm: You have instant cast dazes, don’t just spam them just because. Also you’re a Mesmer, you basically eat thief for breakfast on the same skill level.
-Necormancer: You have a fear too, which has the same cd as a steal spec thief assuming they always targeted you with it. Save you fear for when they use it, considering it is the longest cc they have against you, BV lasts half the time (at melee range).

These are assuming you have troubles in dealing with thief 1v1 who keeps stealing from you. Otherwise use your skills in shutting them down because thief is not tanky, they just evade or stealth a lot (or both).

10k spike = 500 heal with new CS GM trait. So, if you can pump out 10,000 every second you still won’t outregen a warrior. Not to mention the obvious, no one can pump 10k over and over, let alone 6k. 2-3k aa, 3-5k HS, mug can’t crit so forget that, CnD for what 6 or 7k, bs for say 10k. To pull those numbers off your defenses would be so low that you would take far more damage than you can heal for. This trait most certainly isn’t meant to replace healing skills but the short and long term heal from this would be horrible in its current state (5%). I guess they thought AoE skills would be healing you for 150 X 5 so it was op and they settled on a low value. Needless to say, no one will take the new CS trait for anything more than an experiment or gimmick.

Warrior tears taste gooooood.

The skill hit like a truck and required little investment into power. With power, it hit more like a train. Point is, warrior base values are far too high and they get well deserved hate towards it. They don’t have to invest heavily into anything to get significant results, same reason HS is getting nerfed. I don’t even need healing power to make HS more effective than mending or to some degree, healing surge.

All corresponding warrior skills have higher dmg coeficients than thief (example, eviscerate is higher than BS, war axe aa is higher than thief dagger and sword), warrior has highest health pool tier, highest armor rating tier, very long condition durations, top tier for stability access, etc. The term “easy mode” didn’t come from thin air, its class designs like this that prompted it.

It only goes on a 40 second cooldown if you use it to escape, and don’t target anything.

In wvw, you can target an ambient creature.

In pvp, certain maps have boxes you can hit.

Ever try catching an ele with per-nerf rtl? It was literally impossible, it moved way to quickly and over the moon and it was a joke. Maybe 40 seconds was too much but hey, your #5 is also a 40 second cd so it has synergy even for being the most predictable combo out of any profession.

Non-ele player: “Here comes an ele, with rtl, and updraft… dodge…”
Ele player: “aww man how did I miss?”

Scene.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Simonoly.4352:

Sounds like a far more balanced rune set now. Even with the 8 second ICD on the interrupt bonus, these runes have continued to be remarkably face-rollish in WvW. They would honestly be ridiculous in their current state in sPvP so this is definitely a positive change.

Its not the runes that made them faceroll easy. It was specific classes that already had good/insane access to Confusion. Warrior, Engineer and Mesmer were the worst ones with it. Thief thanks to being able to spam interrupts 3 or 4 times in a row with certain builds weren’t exactly easy to fight either.

They will continue to be strong because the root issue has been ignored – the classes that can abuse them have not been fixed so they can’t. Even with the nerf to it this is still a very strong Runeset for them, it just means for other classes that used them because they were a new condition its just a big nerf.

Why would they nerf the class, who was here to start with, and not nerf the runes? Can you explain that? So because Mesmer and engineer already have confusion and cc, and perplex adds more, you think they should just nerf the class? What if they don’t use perplex?

People are ridiculous in thinking these nerfs were unjustified. Runes were meant to fill the shoes of a build, not the meta (conditions).

Pavel.8531:

Travlane, Interceptor, chill the kitten out. Your posts take 1/2 of the thread (5 Trav and 11 Inter(gj man, really stupid impressive feat))

Now to go back to my opinion on the trait – it’s adept rank at most. Heck, even if it was adept, I doubt more than 1% would take it over the other options.

Interceptor is known for his crusades to change the minds of those on the forums. Believe me, I KNOW, and it isn’t worth the trouble.

Any who, 15 days remain for them to redo this GM trait or forever add it to the list of completely useless traits. It isn’t workable, even with boon duration. 100% boon duration would only make it 2 seconds, which is still shotty and not worth a 30 point investment.

If their goal was to open up build diversity they really havn’t accomplished that with AE, or the CS gm trait. Notice in the pvp preview they said it themselves, “if you crit for 10,000 you heal for 500”….. So 10k is repeatable? and it heals almost as little as just having regen on? Pretty sure regen alone would out heal this trait and given the source (pain response, shadow protector) would lead to further defenses. They say they don’t want traits to compete but they forget that you can only pick 1 GM trait from a tree at a time, and the severe loss in dps greatly outweighs the futile heal you get from Critical infusion or w/e they called it.

If they want it to be a viable source of non-stealth healing (not that we don’t have it, but more is necessary to avoid abuse from Q.Q mechanics), it should be 12, or 15% for single target skills, and 8, or even 10% from aoe skills so AoE doesn’t greatly overheal you but atleast make it viable. If someone wants to take a cut in dps, it should lead to some sustain/recovery that’s appropriate. Not saying the heal should = the dps loss, but the benefit of taking a heal on crit vs 20% more dps (or 100% crit for those few who use it) should be present.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Azukas.1426:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Azukas, D/P thieves are the only thieves I cannot counter easily, every other weaponset I have a counter prepared for.

Than you need to learn how to play instead of going on this nerf D/P crusade. Pick it up for a few weeks and I bet you’ll find out quickly how to counter one.

Though you’ll have to leave the blob to achieve this

This brought to mind something…you keep saying there’s counters, but I’ve never seen you give them. Please put a video here showing some of the Thief versus thief counters against D/P, that way I can see what I’m doing wrong. Of course, if you can’t…it COULD mean you’re just whiteknighting when you know there’s no counter to it. But that would be foolish.

For starters, don’t shoot out dazes just because. All daze skills are really quick to cast and have a better use than being on cooldown just because. If the thief is dazed they can’t HS in their field. If they back off and “perma stealth” that means the duration in which they are stealthed, they are not attacking you. So common sense, spend that time to recover and prepare for an ambush of sorts.

Another little tip, ground targeted traps like marks, traps, etc will tell you where the thief is once they trigger it. If you’re a guardian, aegis will show in big letters “BLOCK”, obviously the thief is behind you, so start throwing down dps on your spot or dodge out. Skills like binding blades, Necro DS #4, etc don’t need a target to seek out enemies. Invisible =/= invincible. You should know how your profession’s skills behave before calling someone else’s OP. Shortly after you will come across a lot of counters to the various stealth abusers and realize, not all counters say “Reveal” on them.

Renny.6571:

Gulesave.5073:

The Steal mechanic is underused by many players due to the lack of control over the results.

lol wut. Steal from any class and you know exactly what you’re gonna get. Besides, 30 trickery and you have aoe 10sec might/fury/swiftness, 2 boon strip which prioritizes stab+aegis and is aoe shared, a daze and +2 initiative all in a gap closer, no animation instant cast skill every 20 seconds. No decent PvPer would ever say it needs a buff.

So you’re saying, you either spec of steal or you’re a baddie? That’s a terrible mentality to have, class diversity should not force someone to make their profession mechanic useful for more than a gap closer. If we were given F2-F4 for us to rack up some stolen skills and use them on our terms rather than have it cover up steal it would open a ton of doors. Often I untarget and just toss stolen skills because so many of them have no place in a fight.

Necro doesn’t have to spec for DS, they get an instant cast fear, aoe immobilize, etc and a 2nd health bar to help them survive.

Warrior can choose their burst skills to a degree, and almost all of them are really good and entirely fit the role of the weapon (hammer stuns, axe hits hard, lb causes condi, rifle snipes)

Guardian gets 3 universal virtues. None of them are useless when not spec’ed, and also offer passive bonuses.

Ranger gets a pet which they can choose. Only problem is pets are soo clunky but the april patch may help a little (doubt it will fix them though). Atleast they have options to play with, and don’t need to go down BM to make use of them.

Mesmer gets 4 shatter skills, all of which have their use. Daze is universal, distortion for avoiding burst, flat dps for zerkers or confusion for condi.

Elementalist gets double the weapon skills, each having a role. There are some pretty good bonuses from each attunement providing many options to swap to during a fight.

Engineer can get some really strong tool belt skills, some even stun break. On top of that, they are chosen based off utility and healing skill choice, and go along the theme of those skills fairly well.

Thief gets a gap closer and a pre determined stolen skill if steal makes contact and you aren’t blinded/blocked/evaded.

You can’t look at traits that buff profession mechanics as a measure of balance, because everyone can spec for their profession mechanics. When a thief doesn’kittens not nearly as rewarding as the others.

This is only a nerf to those who spam pw. Those who press more than 1 button won’t see this as class breaking. Now we just need to weed out the kittens who still think spamming HS is rewarding.

Meglobob.8620:

Lyssa runes nerfed as well, should get a mention here as well. Since that hits a lot of Warriors/Thiefs really hard too. They now only remove 5 conditions to buffs.

15.4.14 is going to hit Warriors/Thiefs really hard with lots of nerfs and of course crit dam % nerfed on top of all that!

Worst part is that its a conversion change, which means we can’t use lyssa for reliable stability anymore…. sigh Atleast we got assassin’s equilibrium LOL

FeelsAlright.5860:

1 initiative increase on pistolwhip…. you’ll stilil be able to spam the kitten out of it. why can’t you just remove the stun… no one rooted skill in the game stuns like that. make it take some kitten skill

It takes skill to avoid pw, you can’t sit there and use A & D to turn in a fight. I’m sorry if your mobility is lacking but pw is about as telegraphed as CnD and should not give anyone issues, even if they use haste. For pw to do any decent damage, they have to give up a lot of defenses, hope you can put that puzzle together.

Meglobob.8620:

I agree, the 15.4.14, will be a BLACK DAY for all warriors, they are getting close to 10+, double digit nerfs inflicted on them in one go!

15.4.14 The day warriors everywhere die a little inside

You really want to compare your warrior nerfs against thief nerfs?

pops a bag of popcorn, I’m all ears.

Julie Yann.5379:

They should just remove the thief from the game. No more spammable cheese builds, everyone gets to fight on a level playing field and Anet doesn’t have to waste resources trying to balance an incredibly broken mechanic. It’s a win fro everyone.

While they’re at it, remove every class except warrior. That way the skill level will be minimal and those who spent months perfecting their builds even after constant nerfs can feel like it lead somewhere.

No worries, you got some cough epic cough condition traits now, and can melt targets with your OP burn!

Good riddens, these runes were way to strong with an engi. Well deserved nerf, and politely done to where it isn’t destroyed.

Qaelyn.7612:

I knew this would happen. They’ve removed one of the few ways engineers had to deal with conditions.. and gave us nothing to compensate.

Worse, it was due to incessant whining in PvP about decapping, but seems to apply everywhere, which means getting owned even worse to condition spam in WvW.

Disappointed… I haven’t played much recently and this doesn’t make me want to ramp up in the future.

Oh, no, you can’t be immune to conditions anymore? Poor thing, how will you run away now?

Straight up immunity is broken. Strict condi builds could never kill an ele with diamond skin because their power would never be enough to get past 90% without the ele burst healing or simply regenerating. Any strict condi build would never win against engi with that trait, because their direct damage wouldn’t be enough before the engi simply drops a healing turret and gets back up. None of the listed changes were off imo, in fact they could of done more with condi warrior but we’ll see what they decide.

Electra.9034:

First off, how do you make stealth last longer? I am level 21 ?
I see many ppl buffing so they run faster around the world(and it even sometimes buffs me) do we get a buff to do that?
So far I am playing with dagger pistol and then shortbow, is that good or should I be using different combo.
Last question, I joined what I think was called a zerg and we went around killing bosses in the open world. Do they have this in every zone as you level up?
and last, what are the Must have traits for thief, I play solo. There is so much information out there but I would like to hear a current answer,.
THanks So much

1) Stealth lasts longer from a trait, and from utility/weapon skills. Your 15 minor trait in Shadow Arts (aka SA) makes stealth skills last 1 second longer. Outside of that, it’s a combination of stealth utility skills like Blinding Powder, Shadow Refuge, Shadow trap and weapon skills like Cloak and Dagger (dagger off hand), or Black powder shot (pistol offhand) + Heart seeker (dagger main hand). If you create a smoke field and leap through it, you gain 3 seconds of stealth. If you blast a smoke field (sb, blinding powder) you get 3 seconds however you cannot enter stealth from blasting a smoke field IF you hit a target.

2) Most likely a mix of shadow stepping and leaps. For example, if you target an enemy far away with sword and press #2 it won’t teleport you on the target but it will teleport you the max distance the skill permits without a huge cost of initiative (your resource pool). Otherwise heartseeker with swiftness (a boon that grants 33% movement speed) or Short bow Infiltrator’s Arrow (900 range teleport). There is also a signet that when off cooldown, grants 25% movement speed.

3) Dagger pistol is fine, its very powerful if you ever decide to start dueling as a power thief. Just use all the weapons atleast once and see what you like most. Shortbow is almost standard for a thief’s alternate weapon but not required. Shortbow is a good utility weapon and great for tagging enemies (by tagging I mean hitting).

4) Zerging is not in every map but in quite a few. Primarily the maps whose champions (high ranked enemy) are on a quick rotation. Zerging in pve is more for loot than levels, I would focus on doing hearts and even a couple steps in your personal story line. Granted they’re not the most enjoyable experience, they yield good exp for little effort.

5). Depends on your build, there really are no “must have” traits for thief. As you level and unlock more skills test them, see what you like. Over time and not that long of time, you will realize which traits and skills are good or bad, as far as what you’re trying to do. Ill tell you there are dozens of terrible traits, but there are no traits that every thief needs.