Guild Wars 2

Engineers only have 2 Elite skills, and have a unique class feature granting them the ability to wipe some hot wet dog !@$# off their boot and into that Elite slot.

icewyrm.5038:

I think the rifle would make an excellent melee weapon – change 1# to a short range aoe cone, change overcharged shot to an aoe, swap cooldowns on #2 and #3 skills (and therefore skill position).

Problem is engineer would then be without a decent ranged power based non ground targeted attack. If the pistol or a kit was buffed (better damage or refire rate on pistol AA, better accuracy on volley, or better base power ratio on elixer gun AA) then I think this would be an amazing change for the engineer as a class.

I’m not sure I’d like a short range skill for the auto-attack specifically due to the point you mention; a difficulty in getting at ranged targets. This is actually one of the rifle’s strong points as it can not only engage a target at range 1000 but also excels at doing so up close. Sure it can get ranges up to 1200 when traited though I don’t use Rifled Barrels anymore now that Mod Ammo, Rifle Mod, and Sitting Duck are more permanently etched in my rifle build than what I did with that girl is etched into my memory of prom night in 2003.

I’ve begun to think that Rifled Barrels is actually counter-intuitive in that it encourages the build choice of fighting at range, but relatively speaking 1200 range is a less effective distance for a rifle Engi. Toss scope in on top of it and it all begins to seem like it wants to allow for the Engineer to be a strong contender at 600-1200, yet the hardest hitting skills are reserved for when you’re a couple centimeters shy of their tonsils. Notably scope isn’t exclusively tied to the rifle, and may be more suited to a Pistol/Shield based condition build that wants to get those extra proced conditions. I say Pistol/Shield and not Pistol/Pistol as the offhand pistol skills also utilize the closer ranges.

Personally I think there should be some method, much like the Thief and it’s dual wielding skill mechanic, to shake things up a bit on your rifle skill bar. I.E. if you use Rifle, and also use the Scope trait, it changes “Blunderbuss” to “High Velocity Shot” a range 1200 (or range 1500 if traited with Rifled Barrels) single target skill with the same damage and bleed stacks on an inverted damage scale to Blunderbuss (I.E. longer the range the more damage and bleeds). This single skill malleability would change the rifle from 3 skills best suited for use when that thing is inside your enemy’s chest cavity, to 3 skills best used for when you just have that strong need to reach out to someone…and eliminate them with extreme prejudice.

Engineers snatched the rifle out of the Warriors hands, chopped down the barrel, bored it out to a 12 gauge, and proceeded to see what manner of random household appliances they could stuff in it and shoot at people. Solid Slugs that punch through targets? Sure (#1)! Nets that deploy in flight? Totally (#2)! A handful of glass and scrap metal? Sounds delightfully painful (#3)! Fifty times the normal amount of gun powder? That’ll chap some booties (#4)! How about a highly accurate solid rocket booster with a large ejection of propellant capable of launching ya across a ravine!? …Uhh…do you have a permit for that (#5)?

The point is if you think of the Engineers rifle as a pump action shot gun with an assorted array of shells, you may very well change your tune about it. It’s build to get in your enemy’s face…and then remove it…through their rectum.

Technically its only possible to have an all Elixir build as we have both a healing and elite skill that are Elixirs.

Barring the Elite option, an all kit build would likely make use of Elixir Gun, Flame Thrower, and either Tool Kit or Bomb kit, with Med Kit being the obvious healing skill choice.

Personally I’d go Pistol + Shield (sigil of corruption and sigil of purity) with a 0/20/20/20/10 for this kind of build and use Rabid gear with Runes of the Undead, and all Valk accessories (back piece being Zerker). Use Fire Forged Trigger, Juggernaut, Protective Shield, Reinforced Shield, Invigorating Speed, Deadly Admixture, and Speedy Kits. For less focus on Pistol + Shield you could put 20 in explosives instead of inventions to get Enhance Performance, or pull 10 from inventions and toss 10 into Tools to get Power Wrench. Traiting out of inventions I’d recommend different Runes though, like Runes of the Forge or Runes of the Thief.

Phineas Poe.3018:

My Warrior gives Fury, Might, and Vigor on top of buffing allies with an additional 150 Power, 170 Precision, and 10% Critical Damage. I’d say he buffs people just fine.

I also hate to break it to you, but Warriors do have access to plenty of Protection and Aegis. Quick Breathing gives me Protection every time I cleanse Vulnerability and Aegis any time I cleanse Burning. From either Call to Arms or Charge.

And it gives them to allies, too.

Also: Warriors have access to blocks too, and can reflect projectiles with Missile Deflection.

Warrior is the ultimate PvE Hero. Crazy you’d even brag about what Engineer can do.

You’re absolutely right. You give up X to gain Y.

That build would never use Frenzy, nor would my Support Engineer build ever use Elixir U.

I think you see the point. When built for, skills are equally viable for each class and not contingent on native armor or hp, but upon build choice. Your Warrior support build, against an Engineer support build is not relevant to Frenzy as both give up offense for defense. Sure I can grant Fury, Might (ALOT of might), and Vigor, cleanse conditions, grant boons, and reflect missiles with my Warrior, but my Engineer can provide a 7 fold knock-back chain that’re blast finishers in a water field, a fire field, or a smoke field however the mood may strike me.

How many Frenzy builds are there in which you take Quick Breathing, Missile Deflection, and Vigorous Shouts? Conversely how many Accelerant Packed, Deployable turret builds (like the one I described) have we seen use Elixir U?

Answer: a number equal to the number of bad Frenzy and Elixir U builds.

Manuhell.2759:

Any combination of thief weapons has either got blinds, shadowsteps or evades. And if those go wrong, they will still have means to stealth. They have alternate means of defending themselves even with their endurance drained, and that’s by design.
Warriors have got better base hp and armor than engineers. So even if they take more damage with frenzy, they are still relatively sturdy to begin with.
Both of them have got drawbacks pertinent to the class itself, and that’s without counting skills or traits, despite what you can say about that. Heh, frenzy was also a GW1 skill of the warrior, even if the drawback was more severe.
And beside that they still know the drawback beforehand, while we must act on the moment.

You apply the concept of gestalt class design to other classes yet preclude the Engineer without a basis. The Engineer class, as a whole, provides the player the ability to tailor its build to the skills they so choose to use just as other classes provide options to do so. Having a native higher armor rating and health pool for Warriors does not make them any more tailored for Frenzy than an Engineer. Not accounting for the variation of how classes function, or vary in how they are optimal, can ever be the basis for a valid argument in this regard. Engineers can compensate and successfully build for using Frenzy and Haste passively, or accept it as a weakness and compensate for it actively with their play-style.

I could easily list the great many things an Engineer can do that a Warrior cannot, but that would be unnecessary as the disparity between the classes is broad and obvious. The same could also be said of the Thief. Ultimately one cannot formulate a comparison without factoring in the trade-offs each class makes for something like a native high armor and hit point total, such as the inability to provide volumes of boons which include aegis and protection, have as many as 8 blast finishers back-to-back on a single bar, make water-fields to do all that blasting in, have a 3 second block, have a 2 second block that stuns, drop projectile blocking wall spells…oops! there I go listing the great many things Engineers can do that Warriors can’t as compensation for a disparity in native armor and hit points. Guess I couldn’t resist in the end.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Obscure One.4357:

If you’re thoughts are in removing a stun break from Elixir U, it’s the removal of the stun break from both Frenzy and Haste.

You say that like Elixir U was always a stunbreaker.

It wasn’t. It was made a stunbreaker, and then ArenaNet felt like elixirs had too many—so they took one off Elixir R. You don’t find that aggravating?

Elixir U was made a stun-breaker due to exact reason I’m defending it being a stun breaker. It was imbalanced compared to the skills it provided, then became balanced, and I do not want a backslide in that regard. Arena Net noted a design flaw and fixed it. Notably the Elixir R nerf came LONG after.

As for Elixir R, I find it absolutely absurd that they removed the stun-breaker and basically made two Elixirs I’ll never use instead of just Elixir C. To not derail the thread into a conversation about how !@#$ing stupid that move was, I’ll just say I think both Elixir C and Elixir R, if not stun breaks, need some other incentive to slot them on the skill bar. Now more than ever with the recent buff to Rocket Boots demanding that it’s replacement be equally epic in a way neither the underwhelming Elixir C or R currently are.

Not sure if anyone else is noticing this, but since the 6/25 update, the magnet pull physics occasionally launch my enemies into the air during the pull if I drag them over some types of uneven terrain. It’s pretty comical…wish they took fall damage from the drop…

Anyways! I just figured I’d toss my 2 cents in since I’ve been making a habit of doing that lately. But when it comes to Magnet, I wouldn’t touch it. The range is great, the unblock-ability is phenomenal, and the wind up time can be well predicted/timed for coming around a corner on someone or just plain showing up when they don’t expect it…like after you Rocket Boots off a smoke field! (you have no idea how satisfied I am with Rocket Boots). All in all a pretty solid skill with some environmentally related bugs that should be worked on for all pulls/knock-backs/blowouts.

Manuhell.2759:

So basically, while those other classes can deal with the drawbacks simply because they are tailored for them, you would say that the possibility of traiting specifically to reduce the random drawbacks given by that single skill makes it good and fine?

That’s a loaded question.

No class is tailored for any skill other than it’s class mechanic skills, I.E. Burst Skills, Tool Belt Skills, Steal, Shatter Skills, Pet Commands, Death Shroud, etc., and Elite Skills. Frenzy is not tailored for any and all Warrior builds, nor is Haste tailored for any and all Thief builds. You cannot judge every build of a class equally, and as such no skill within the class is tailored for it. The class instead offers skills as options that you, the player, may tailor for; not vise versa.

Zindrix.1750:

The only time I generally get rolled by them is when I’m in a small group and we’re capping a tower or depot and another group comes in to defend then I get FFed by the thief. Don’t usually see them beforehand, and then the backstab, etc, I’m dead. I don’t really have a problem with that, especially as I’m rolling around at lvl 79(now) in mid 60s greens and I don’t have a the fullest grasp on the class yet. My only problem is really with stealth itself and how it takes any so much vulnerability away from the class. I don’t know why anybody wouldn’t play a GC build on a thief when you have stealth as a defense(and offense). On my other characters, I don’t even bother chasing thieves anymore.

Don’t even bother!? Don’t you dare give up on me!

Practice, Practice, Practice, Practice. Every time you fight a thief make adjustments to counter them, nothing major, just maybe a Master tier trait in Vitality instead of Toughness, or swapping out Elixir S for Utility Goggles. Really get into the meta of the class and play around with what you think is going to work. I would even suggest, if you have an empty character slot, roll a thief and take it into sPvP if only to look at the skills, the animations, and the general flow of the class to make yourself more familiar with it’s weakness’ and limitations.

You can only get out what you put in. The risks are worth the reward…the reward being ROFLSTOMPING a thief when he thought he had you pegged. Engineers can be uniquely unpredictable that way.

Zindrix.1750:

Dan.2940:

Zindrix.1750:

Xom.9264:

dovrak.4376:

Helcor.9527:

Pavel.8531:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Fighting-thieves-in-WvW

Helping you out. Btw I am a thief and engis(good ones) are even worse than guards to 1v1.

Thief damage is high. Too high.

Didn’t you face fresh air S/D eles? or actually shatter mesmers? They’ll take you down whitout even going stealth. And necros can burst equally high these days. To say that thieves burst is op isn’t only false, it’s outdated.

Thieves burst is OP because they can do it over and over with no danger of dying due to stealth abuse. Other classes need to commit if their combo is countered they are in the fight win or lose. Stealth mesmers can get away also but their reset time to abuse stealth is much longer then thieves they also do not have the movement skills.

This is exactly the issue. Thieves don’t have the vulnerability other classes have by being seen before they launch into their combo. And(as I’ve noticed), if they feel like they aren’t going to win the fight after 5 seconds, they will just stealth and run away.

The stealth traps in WvW aren’t the answer to this problem. They’re not used at all and stealth for WvW should really be reviewed.

Uhm, ever heard of AoE’s? If not, problem solved. Thieves are still vulnerable in stealth, but you just can’t see them. Its like trying to burn an invisible piece of paper. Any AoE spam around you or whoever they are attacking will discourage them to keep doing so, or they will die. Assuming the thief is running backstab, they are glass and need to get close to you, which means standing in your AoEs will rub them the wrong way.

Thieves running away shouldn’t be a problem for you, they gave up and accepted their defeat… Sure it’s annoying, but who really won the battle? So many people seem to have a problem with thieves, but how many of you actually tried the class? You’re asking Arenanet to nerf a class that you havn’t even tried. If someone whos never tried Engineer before started saying they were OP and need a nerf, broken class, etc. How would you react?

You can’t AoE every area after they stealth. The only way to know for sure is if they had stealthed in a small enclosed area, at that point, it was kind of dumb to stealth anyways. I’m not calling for a nerf to thieves, I could give a crap about them, however I think the stealth mechanics could be modified. Obivously Anet is aware of this problem because they took the time to implement those lame traps in WvW.

Maybe like every other game, direct damage could remove them from stealth? Maybe if they have conditions on them, you can see where the damage numbers are coming from without actually being able to target them, and you can still AoE the area?

In all seriousness it really comes down to build, experience, and knowledge of the enemy class. I was literally in your shoes banging my head against the wall over getting rolled everytime I met a Thief. What I didn’t realize is I was getting better at fighting them and beginning to predict them. A few build tweaks and a butt load of practice later and I rarely run into a thief that can down me, nor survive my hard CC SD spike, and with my shiny new rocket boots they find it hard to get away/gap close without burning down their initiative.

Long and short I turtled up my build until I got good enough to kite them, and when I got good enough to kite them I eventually got good enough to kill them. The rest is just a blur of Badges of Honor, WxP, and the occasional repair costs for run ins with players who are just plain better than me.

…now if I could only repeat that learning process on D/D Ele’s I’d be set…

Manuhell.2759:

We don’t have “the same option”, though. We have one of them at random, and that’s exactly the problem. One that isn’t solved by a 10s lower cooldown.
Also, we’re talking about skills tailored to different classes, forcibly transposed into an engineer skill.
A warrior has got heavy armour and hp. And he knows he will get hurt more in exchange for an higher dps. Still, he will be able to dodge if needed.
Thieves are more squishy, sure. But they can work around the endurance penalty via evades (inbuilt into some attacks) and eventually, if needed, stealth.
We haven’t got neither heavy armor, high hp or evades and the only reliable stealth we can get is via combo fields. And neither we can know the drawback in advance. And both of them can be quite situational. But whereas warriors and thieves know beforehand what they will get, thus being able to use them in the correct situation, we must pray to the rng to not get the wrong drawback.

TL;DR: drawbacks tailored for different situations and rng together don’t go well.

When accounted for properly in a build Elixir U’s detrimental effects can be dealt with just as any other person who intelligently uses Frenzy or Haste can compensate as I have previously mentioned. Warriors cannot gain protection when stunned, and Thieves cannot easily gain a permanent upkeep on vigor, Engineers do both, allowing passive reduction of Elixir U’s detrimental effects.

Just as you wouldn’t trait coated bullets in your rifle build, you also wouldn’t neglect traiting for what you are built for, Elixir U is no exception.

Forestnator.6298:

Engineers most die to immobilise imo. Anyway, this duelist build does not have much condition removes. Maybe u can do something with conditions.

You should go talk to Overcharged Shot and Rocket Boots, they miss you.

Velron.3729:

Obscure One.4357:

@OP: If this is the case, your not up against a class and It’s mechanics, your up against a superior player. Just learn your own class better as every class (except maybe Ranger) has the ability to compete with every class evenly.

Any class can be ridiculous if you know how to use it to its fullest extent.

Well “ridiculous” is subjective. One persons ridiculous could be another’s base expectation. Pretty much where I stand with most any enemy I encounter, I can tell in very little time whether or not they know their class well enough to compete with me. The issue is there are more bad players than good players so when I get in a good fight with anyone its a rare occasion that comes down to a few HP and having everything on CD.

Eh if it helps at all that is definitely a 100% dueling build tailored specifically to wreck thieves. Its not anything that would be useful in roaming WvW, tPVP, etc. Just a dueling setup that counters Thieves harder than anyone else.

Best way to kill any Engineer is CC. We have no stability and most builds have one or no stun breaker. Daze > evade vs Engi.

Elixir X disagrees.

Haha true, Elixir X is there. Most people would not be running that though and Elixir X leaves you vulnerable IMO. You don’t have access to your good skills or your heal in X form…making the stability a bit worthless in my personal opinion.

Also vs a S/D thief he can just steal the stability anyway. I’ve had something like 30+ seconds of stability on my Thief from boon stealing off multiple people and someone who popped their ult with stability attached.

Hint 1: Use Runes of Lyssa to cover Elixir X
Hint 2: They aren’t kiting you, they’re kiting FOR you.
Hint 3: You don’t have to use the entire duration. CC chains don’t normally last 15-20 seconds unless you’re outnumbered in which case you were screwed anyhow.

nakoda.4213:

Yes, Obscure One, but…

When we use elixir U we don’t pull the resulting skill from the database of warrior/thief skills

It is pulled from the engie table.

So Poe’s suggestion is to alter what happens when the engie calls the skill, not to alter warrior or thief skills.

This would require an overhaul of the skill to become Engineer specific and not grant the utility of another class as it does now. This would notably be an unnecessary overhaul of the skill might I add as what it does now it directly balanced against other Classes options…by literally having that same option.

Removing the stun break could therefore only be justified if the skills that form the base for Elixir U are equally reduced. Otherwise the skill no longer grants Frenzy nor Haste as designed and is therefore imbalanced in direct association to both Frenzy and Haste.

There is presently no mechanical substitute for a stun break, so essentially what were discussing is needlessly nerfing Elixir U (much in the way Elixir R was nerfed) just for the sake of having a stun breaker elsewhere. To that, I can’t comment to such ideas of attempting to create balance and equity by using imbalance and inequity, but retain my previous stance that Elixir U is Frenzy or Haste, and should behave as such.

@OP: If this is the case, your not up against a class and It’s mechanics, your up against a superior player. Just learn your own class better as every class (except maybe Ranger) has the ability to compete with every class evenly.

Any class can be ridiculous if you know how to use it to its fullest extent.

Well “ridiculous” is subjective. One persons ridiculous could be another’s base expectation. Pretty much where I stand with most any enemy I encounter, I can tell in very little time whether or not they know their class well enough to compete with me. The issue is there are more bad players than good players so when I get in a good fight with anyone its a rare occasion that comes down to a few HP and having everything on CD.

Eh if it helps at all that is definitely a 100% dueling build tailored specifically to wreck thieves. Its not anything that would be useful in roaming WvW, tPVP, etc. Just a dueling setup that counters Thieves harder than anyone else.

Best way to kill any Engineer is CC. We have no stability and most builds have one or no stun breaker. Daze > evade vs Engi.

Elixir X disagrees.

Helcor.9527:

22,215 in a second. Maybe less. Please explain how to counter this with no reaction time allowed?
Let me guess I didnt bring my anti thief build/traits/armor/skillzzz or I need to L2P ha

-Self-Regulating Defenses
-Acidic Coating
-Protective Shield
-Protection Injection
-Armor Mods
-Superior Runes of The Forge

Required Reaction Time: approx 0.0 seconds

Phineas Poe.3018:

Obscure One.4357:

Elixir U isn’t “similar” to other Quickness skills, it literally is other Quickness skills.

Contemplation of Purity and Elixir C are the exact same skill. They do the exact same thing. Except one breaks stuns and the other doesn’t.

The question is: Why should Elixir U be a stunbreaker like other Quickness skills when it makes just as much sense for Elixir C to be a stunbreaker like all condition converter skills? As a skill that is useful as a stunbreaker for ALL situations, and not just “Oh, I’m going to get back up and punch that guy in the teeth!”

The biggest problem with leaving Elixir U as-is, is that it doesn’t cover the bases as well as Elixir R did when it operated as a stunbreaker. The only response to this I’ve gotten was “Elixir R was too good as a stunbreaker.”

No, it really wasn’t. And now without it, many elixir-spec Engineers are at a loss for wielding a proper stunbreaker in PvP. Elixir U just makes you take more damage than you were already suffering, and Elixir C makes you de-cap a capture point.

If Elixir C gave the Engineer Contemplation of Purity, they would be literally the same.

Again, whether or not Elixir C is a stun break is not relevant to the point as it and Contemplation of Purity are two different, albeit extremely similar skills, that should both produce a stun break and one does not.

An example: Warriors have apples, and thieves have pears. The Engineer gets a coin. On heads he gets an apple, on tails he gets a pear.

Perhaps Rangers get Bananas, Mesmers get Watermelon, and Guardians get Kiwis, but the Engineer only ever gets Apples or Pears…not Oranges, or Grapefruit, or Strawberries, just Apples or Pears of which he takes at random from the Warriors or Thieves.

If you’re thoughts are in removing a stun break from Elixir U, it’s the removal of the stun break from both Frenzy and Haste.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Obscure One.4357:

Elixir U isn’t “similar” to other Quickness skills, it literally is other Quickness skills.

Contemplation of Purity and Elixir C are the exact same skill. They do the exact same thing. Except one breaks stuns and the other doesn’t.

The question is: Why should Elixir U be a stunbreaker like other Quickness skills when it makes just as much sense for Elixir C to be a stunbreaker like all condition converter skills? As a skill that is useful as a stunbreaker for ALL situations, and not just “Oh, I’m going to get back up and punch that guy in the teeth!”

The biggest problem with leaving Elixir U as-is, is that it doesn’t cover the bases as well as Elixir R did when it operated as a stunbreaker. The only response to this I’ve gotten was “Elixir R was too good as a stunbreaker.”

No, it really wasn’t. And now without it, many elixir-spec Engineers are at a loss for wielding a proper stunbreaker in PvP. Elixir U just makes you take more damage than you were already suffering, and Elixir C makes you de-cap a capture point.

If Elixir C gave the Engineer Contemplation of Purity, they would be literally the same.

Again, whether or not Elixir C is a stun break is not relevant to the point as it and Contemplation of Purity are two different, albeit extremely similar skills, that should both produce a stun break and one does not.

An example: Warriors have apples, and thieves have pears. The Engineer gets a coin. On heads he gets an apple, on tails he gets a pear.

Perhaps Rangers get Bananas, Mesmers get Watermelon, and Guardians get Kiwis, but the Engineer only ever gets Apples or Pears…not Oranges, or Grapefruit, or Strawberries, just Apples or Pears of which he takes at random from the Warriors or Thieves.

If you’re thoughts are in removing a stun break from Elixir U, it’s the removal of the stun break from both Frenzy and Haste.

Phineas Poe.3018:

I think you misunderstood my point.

Signet of Stamina is not the same as Contemplation of Purity/Well of Power/Elixir C.

You’re supporting the argument that Elixir U should be left alone because as a Quickness skill, it should break stuns similar to other Quickness skills.

But there’s just as much reason for Elixir C to be a stunbreaker similar to other condition converter skills like it. There are only two other skills in the game that operate like Elixir C does. They’re both stun breakers.

ArenaNet could really go either way on this decision, and I really think that Elixir C makes more sense as a stunbreaker than Elixir U. Personal opinion.

I think you don’t see my point.

I wont argue the that fact neither Elixir C nor Signet of Stamina are stun breaks as it is indefensible and nothing short of a design flaw. However this is not at all remotely similar to the present conversation on Elixir U.

Elixir U isn’t “similar” to other Quickness skills, it literally is other Quickness skills. It either gives the Engineer Haste, the Thief skill, or Frenzy, the Warrior skill…not something “similar” to them, literally the same exact skill. It’s flipping a coin and giving you Haste on heads and Frenzy on tails. The caveat, which was only recently added, is that Elixir U has a native shorter cool-down, which one can interpret was to compensate the Engineer for the unpredictability.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Obscure One.4357:

BoyLer.9732:

If you want a good stun breaker related to an elixir than its the elixir guns tool belt skill. with 30% TBRR it has 30 sec cd.
Elixir U is a bad joke. Its TB has some use but else i dont know why they exactly put the stun breaker onto it…..rtaher elxir c…..

Base Reason Why Elixir U is a Stunbreaker:

-Thief: Haste: -50% Endurance Regeneration, +50% activation speed, BREAKS STUN.

-Warrior: Frenzy: +25% incoming damage, +50% activation speed, BREAKS STUN.

-Ranger: Quickening Zephyr: -50% Endurance Regeneration, +50% activation speed, BREAKS STUN.

Well of Power: Converts conditions into boons. Breaks stuns.

Contemplation of Purity: Converts conditions into boons. Breaks stuns.

Elixir C: Converts conditions into boons. Does not break stuns.

I don’t disagree with the assumption that Elixir U was made a stunbreaker to behave similar to other Quickness abilities. I just disagree that such a basis should be set in stone or toss around the idea that all class skills operate similarly when they provide the same effects.

Firstly removal such as Ranger and Necromancer are not equivalent to boon conversion.

Secondly you left out Signet of Stamina which also is not a stun break.

Thirdly these skills, Frenzy, Quickening Zephyr, and Haste function identically. Rangers transfer conditions to their pet, Warriors remove conditions, and Engineers convert them into booms, these are not identical effects. The only disparity within Elixir U is which of two identical effects the Engineer receives.

Weirwynn.2390:

Obscure One.4357:

Well I know Guardians can produce Protection frequently (Hammer auto-attack #3 chain), and in every instance it’s the duration of the buff that provides the balance. The same could be said of Aegis. Perhaps them being rare boons will provide the incentive of obtaining this trait since as it stands I don’t care for the ability to ground target my med kit skills, and the bonus to health is overshadowed by just using Healing Turret to provide superior healing.

Guardian is the exception to the rule, yes. They have the lowest tier health and make up for it by having very good defensive skills. Meanwhile, some classes have no access at all to it, and most others only have it through random effects or traits. Mesmer, for instance, just lost its guaranteed protection on Chaos Armor (Staff 4).

Again, I’m not saying Med Kit doesn’t need a buff, but I don’t think protection or aegis are the right things for the job.

Your points are valid, but as a counterpoint Engineers can actually spec into high amounts of protection between Protective Shield, Protection Injection, and Runes of the Forge, making them very potent with that boon in specific at the exact time they need it (criticality hit, disabled, and @ 50% health). In that acknowledgement however I see there would be an extra source of protection for Engineers that could be exploited if the varied sources of the boon aren’t appropriately balanced. Being able to indefinitely sustain 33% direct damage reduction is clearly nothing I’d want to see happen.

Perhaps making each pack randomly provide regeneration or vigor (in durations to balance them against Elixir H) would be a superiorly balanced option.

Well there’s your problem, your playing sPvP/tPvP…both game modes are trash and not a reliable gauge of player or class ability. All you need to do to win matches is have strong CC and nigh unkillability. When the match says “Defend your points, Seize theirs” that’s literally all that matters. The game mode doesn’t care if you couldn’t kill an ambient mosquito with a critical hit, so long as you can CC enemies out of points and survive the nastiest of DPS long enough for your friends to get to you, You Win.

The problem isn’t the Engineer. The problem is the game mode is “Sofa King We Tar Did” (say it fast).

I run a 3k attack (+10% Rifle Mod, +2% per condi Mod Ammo, +5% vs bleeding, +5% Force Sigil) 50% crit rate (70% with fury, +10% vs < 50%), 70% crit damage, Static Discharge Rifle Build at the present. It sits pretty low in toughness and vitality at about 2.1k and 18k respectively, but uses a couple defensive traits to stay alive (0/30/10/10/20). If I roam I use Cloaking Device and Automated Defenses, and if I’m with my zerg I use Protective Shield and Protection Injection. Occasionally I’ll use invigorating speed but with the recent proliferation of boon ripping/corrupting necromancers I’ve used it less and less.

Hope that helps!

Weirwynn.2390:

I’m all for giving the med kit a little boost since I use it for triggering runes of altruism, but protection and aegis are comparatively ‘rare’ boons. I don’t think you’ll see them on 12-second timers.

Well I know Guardians can produce Protection frequently (Hammer auto-attack #3 chain), and in every instance it’s the duration of the buff that provides the balance. The same could be said of Aegis. Perhaps them being rare boons will provide the incentive of obtaining this trait since as it stands I don’t care for the ability to ground target my med kit skills, and the bonus to health is overshadowed by just using Healing Turret to provide superior healing.

I only speak for myself in this, but I know of no reason to use Packaged Stimulants, nor justify taking it over more significant Master tier trait options at the present.

Does anyone out there actually use it? If so, why?

There once was a time when I thought Med kit was the best option for nearly every Engineer build, however with the recent upgrades to the class Healing Turret stands as the flat out strongest healing skill the class has, primarily due to it’s water fields. Water Fields that the engineer alone can blast, leap, and projectile in for massive healing, regeneration, and condition removal, not to mention all of his friends.

But this thread isn’t about Healing Turret and it’s pure awesomeness, but rather Med Kit. Med Kit, and it’s associated trait, seems as though it attempts to do the job of providing support healing, but can’t contend with the Healing Turret in that regard. My point being, why have two competing allied healing options?

What I’m getting at is a tweak to Med Kit’s trait “Packaged Stimulants” that instead of +25% healing, med packs grant boons where skill 1 grants regeneration, skill 2 grants protection, skill 3 grants aegis, antidote cures 1 extra condition for a total of 2, and Drop Stimulant also grants retaliation. This would provide excellent synergy with elixir gun support builds and no longer be competing for the “Best Healing” award we all know its not going to get.

This is not really a necessary fix or problem with the class and I would much prefer other things be addressed and fixed before this would even be on the table. This is just an idea to provide more skill and build diversity among the Engineers healing skills.

JudgeD.5673:

Actually I don’t use kit swapping much as I feel it takes more skill than I have to use it properly. Having said that I primarily use rifle/FT in PvE and WvW. On the occasions I am in PvP, I use E-gun and/or Tool Kit/rifle/FT.
The other night, I dueled another eng using a similar setup. In such a case, it comes down to skill and/or whoever makes the first mistake. I failed to follow up on a chain CC atk and was subsequently beaten (still was close though).

Kit swapping rotations are as critical for an Engineer as attunement rotations are for an Elementalist. Outside of a few choice kitless builds, knowing your cool downs and comboing off of your skills can indeed be the difference between our survival and our defeat as it seems you’ve seen first hand.

Personally I run a strong CC SD Rifle build (0/30/10/10/20) that uses Rocket Boots, Tool Kit, Utility Goggles, and Elixir X. This has only been a recent build but it functions on principals from my old FT build with its kit rotation which used Speedy Lots, Invigorating Speed, and Enhance Performance with runes of Lyssa turning med kit into a boon factory while the flame jet was active. I haven’t gone back to it post patch but when I used it before, Flame Jets channeling time was just right to be able to swap to Med Kit and swap back to FT for the next flame jet. This tight rotation in kits required a split focus to pay attention to the flame jet, target behaviors, and boon durations/stacks to be optimal.

I may actually try this build again sometime since now it can include Deadly Admixture since Juggernaut is only a Master tier trait now. At any rate that was mostly just to serve as an example of the meta in the class.

digitalruse.9085:

Obscure One.4357:

digitalruse.9085:

Make turret recovery like Axton in BL2, maybe? If you detonate your turret or lose it, you suffer the full cool down. If you recover it, it gives you a buff that reduces the cool down time on that specific turret.

That’s already how it works..

Huh… must not be significant enough to notice.

(25%. Blech. On the 20s cooldowns that is a whole 5 seconds… weee… On the minute ones you can probably feel that difference, but I pretty much never recover my healing turret and just det for the water blast.)

There in lies the problem. It’s significantly more useful to ritualistically sacrifice your turrets on the altar of a combo field than to use them as actual turrets. I’ve been playing Engineer since launch and still have no idea how long a turret can stay placed before it self destructs…namely because either myself or an enemy never let’s it get to that point.

AlietteFaye.7316:

Are we talking about PvP or PvE here? Because honestly, Turrets are pretty okay in PvP at the moment. Some are used more than others because of how PvP emphasizes on holding points, of course. But for the most part, they aren’t instantly dead and they definitely help the Engineer out.

PvE and WvW. In sPvP the thumper, net, and rocket are useful for holding a point but with the Accelerant Packed Turrets trait, it encourages using them for the activated skill, and detonating them immediately after since they wear out their usefulness literally that quickly.

AlietteFaye.7316:

Obscure One.4357:

Turrets?

You mean those things that give me a toolbelt skill, and when I use the actual skill it gives me a blast finisher toolbelt skill?

Who knew they actually do other things if you don’t immediately blow them up!?

…oh but those things are crappy?

…so why don’t they turn off those things and make them do something else?

Seriously though, the AI in GW2 is so @#$%in’ bad it makes Jessica @#$%in’ Simpson look like Stephen @#$%in’ Hawking!

Fix:
1) make your AI at least take some night classes at a community college, cause its got less smarts than a soap dish…and saying that gives me the urge to apologize for insulting the soap dish.
2) Reduce the cool downs to place turrets to be the same as kit recharges but retain the cool downs for the activated skills and create a 15 second cool down for the Detonate toolbelt skill for each turret. That way you can spam the turrets but not always activate them. And who cares if you can spam the turret? They do mediocre damage unless you trait for when they explode on destroyed. Toss a global 10 second CD on that trait and call it a day.

Turrets without a CD would be ridiculous. Always having a turret that heals you? Always having access to passive attacks that proc traits and have burning, immobilize, and cripple? Come on, now.

Ok ok ok. I admit no CD may be a bit much. How about a buff for while they are on CD then?

…no that just puts in more emphasis to just explode them…

Umm, how about Turrets are invulnerable for 5 seconds when placed and a trait, maybe Power Wrench, allows you to increase the invulnerablity by 1 second as long as you hit them with your Wrench?

Turrets?

You mean those things that give me a toolbelt skill, and when I use the actual skill it gives me a blast finisher toolbelt skill?

Who knew they actually do other things if you don’t immediately blow them up!?

…oh but those things are crappy?

…so why don’t they turn off those things and make them do something else?

Seriously though, the AI in GW2 is so @#$%in’ bad it makes Jessica @#$%in’ Simpson look like Stephen @#$%in’ Hawking!

Fix:
1) make your AI at least take some night classes at a community college, cause its got less smarts than a soap dish…and saying that gives me the urge to apologize for insulting the soap dish.
2) Reduce the cool downs to place turrets to be the same as kit recharges but retain the cool downs for the activated skills and create a 15 second cool down for the Detonate toolbelt skill for each turret. That way you can spam the turrets but not always activate them. And who cares if you can spam the turret? They do mediocre damage unless you trait for when they explode on destroyed. Toss a global 10 second CD on that trait and call it a day.

Not that I don’t like the concept, but it ignores a pretty large problem, the Mortar. I’d be fine with a shoulder mounted weapon that fired rocket propelled grenades, but it’d take more mechanical alteration to make it change the grenade kit off of a trait, and the functional change between PvP and PvE would be far to drastic alienating the sPvP game mode even more than it is already. By making it a stand alone elite skill to replace the Mortar, we’d have a better ranged option without anything to messy in terms of trait shuffling and PvP/PvE mode discrimination.

Kimbald.2697:

Underwater my second skill slot is slick shoes. If I use it, it gets a cooldown, obviously.
When I go on land, my second slot is my grenade kit.
Last time i used my slick shoes just before going on land… I had a 40 second cooldown on MY GRENADE KIT!

I have other questions, and I do think the OP nailed it pretty good with his sum up.
So just throwing this little one out here: a cooldown on a kit, because of underwater sill usage? Seriously?

Takes time to dry them off of course!

…but seriously it’s a stupid indiscriminate mechanic, that was just as unbalanced for giving us multiple heals when transferring from water to land as it is in locking out our kits when we transfer from water to land. Problem is ANet in their infinite wisdom decided only to fix the healing bug since they’d rather just cater to Jon Peters and his 5 Signet Warrior. Since it takes a lot of time to make a bad build playable, there’s no time to discriminate kits from other skills in a water/land transfer. Sorry fellow Engineers, I guess we shoulda rolled Warriors?

Jigain.8231:

Obscure One.4357:

Adding in a “Sniper Kit” would give more of a build reason to use Rifled Barrels and Scope, especially of it were an elite that replaced Mortar, but benefited from Elite Supplies range increase to make for the longest viable ranged weapon option bar none.

Quick design suggestion:

Sniper Rifle
Cast time: 0.5s
Duration: forty-five seconds
Cooldown: 180s
Use: Assemble a sniper rifle at your location to be used by yourself or your allies.

Gives the following skills when used:

Fire
Cast time: 0.2s
Cooldown: 0.5s
Max Range: 2000
Min Range: 600
Use: Fire a shot at your selected target. Deals medium damage.

Spot
Cast time: 0.2s
Cooldown: 8s
Max Range: 2200
Min Range: 0
Use: Spot a target for your allies, inflicting 5 stacks of Vulnerability for 4 seconds.

Boom, Headshot
Cast time: 0.6s
Cooldown: 14s
Max Range: 1800
Min Range: 800
Use: Snipe your target’s head, dealing heavy damage and having an additional 10% chance to critically hit.

This Little Piggy…
Cast time: 0.2s
Cooldown: 10s
Max range: 1800
Min range: 600
Use: Target the legs, dealing low damage but inflicting Cripple for 4 seconds as well as 3 stacks of Bleed for 6 seconds.

Ballistic Hollowpoint
Cast time: 0.5s
Cooldown: 18s
Use: Load up three rounds of ballistic hollowpoint rounds, causing your next three attacks to pierce and apply their effects to all targets in their path.

Values are subject to discussion for balance purposes, but I think you see where I’m going with this. I want to make it a stationary weapon for long-to-medium range combat in open terrain, with a couple of nice conditions added in, to replace the nigh-useless mortar.

PS. Why is “forty-five s” in number form censored? Kitten is confused.

Firstly I’d be sure to add in a way to gain stealth or stability while using the “Sniper Kit”. It’d be neat if when you fired the rifle it broke stealth for the duration of the Detected debuff and stealth buffed you again when it ended.

Secondly, maybe we’re looking at the sniper model to heavily as a ranged option to remedy the disparity. Why not something like a fully automatic machine gun on a tripod? How sick would a range 1200 mini gun pumping out a stream of rounds doing equivalent damage to a pistol auto attack but at a 100% faster firing rate be!? Now that would be an elite!

What’s really interesting is that there are two traits designed specifically to enhance the ability for an Engineer to engage targets at range (Rifled Barrels, Scope) yet very little to actually use at those ranges. Blunderbuss, Overcharged Shot, and even Jump Shot are all vastly more effective in close range than they are any where else. It’s actually very counter intuitive to the class design.

Scope would actually serve a better purpose in a Grenade build spec than a rifle build spec simply due to it’s overall effectiveness. This actually reinforces the need for a “Sniper Kit” as there’s no real reason to use Rifled Barrels for a rifle since it’s practically useful for only the Auto-Attack and Net Shot. Then with Hair Trigger, Coated Bullets, and Modified Ammunition being the optimal pistol choices, Rifled Barrels is just hard to justify for that spec as well.

Adding in a “Sniper Kit” would give more of a build reason to use Rifled Barrels and Scope, especially of it were an elite that replaced Mortar, but benefited from Elite Supplies range increase to make for the longest viable ranged weapon option bar none.

Fatal mistake made by Engineer player after Engineer player, QQing about Kits and Weapons having slightly lower damage coefficients than other classes without any mind put into where the developers placed the balance to it.

-In PvE you have Turrets to make up (and actually overcome) the difference.
-In sPvP you have Static Discharge to make up the difference.
-In WvW you have access to permanent Swiftness, Vigor, and 3 Might stacks (speedy kits, invigorating speed, enhance performance on Med Kit equip. Use Lyssa runes for a fourth random boon, and Bowl of Saffron-Scented Poultry Soup for a free condition remover.) making you more survivable than the average invader in those ever so common Zerg fights; a fair trade for less damage.

Also it’s worth noting there’s almost no weapon/kit swap cool-down so basically you’re always ready to use a kit skill whenever it’s ready. Much as a Thief can no-talent-skill-spam Engineers can no-talent-kit-spam…course once they nerfed kit refinement it made doing so much less attractive.

Moving forward I would say this becomes a disparity for varied builds as it is limiting when a spec designed for DPS can’t be optimal because the trait it needs is way to deep in a different trait line. Want Rifle Mod to make up that slightly off damage coefficient? Sorry HGH Grenadier, your just gonna have to go without.

Divus.3175:

I have one problem with engineer, trying to bunker now. After nerf to elixir S and mist form, related trait became pretty useless (it can kill you if you’ve met condi spec). Elixir S is cool, but could be a little redesigned.

Is there a reason, why you can’t get out of transformation? 3 seconds with conditions can kill you, and you can’t do anything, but if you could just transform back, it could be really cool, and not OP (as it was before nerf).

That’s just a random thought, but could work.

I agree it can very well get you killed, and one should be careful if they have it traited.

Personally I think the trait should trigger when you are downed, and the Elixir itself should recharge at 25% health.

Another fix would be to make Elixir S (and mistform) also clear damaging conditions (burn, bleed, poison, torment, confusion). With Cleansing Formula 409 you can shed one of those conditions off of the Trait but for the rest you’re on your own.

The other option would be to give these forms unique skills like literally every other form in the game. Moa Morph doesn’t nerf skill usage as much as Elixir S and its an OFFENSIVE skill. As a matter of fact, the way to really wreck a Engineer is to wait until they come out of Elixir S, and Moa them. Talk about screwed!

On the flip side Endure Pain gets not a stitch of scrutiny for its ability to produce identical invulnerability with no negative side effects like skill blackouts. My Warrior can chain Endure pain at 25% HP and still use Signet of Stamina, and his full compliment of other skills for that matter, Healing included. No Direct Damage, Full Condition Clear, and a huge heal off of Healing Surge? Totally balanced! Those Engineers and Elementalists are clearly evenly matched!

Zindrix.1750:

Sepahbod.4653:

HGH is terribly overrated and viewed as powerful, when in fact it’s strength lies in how brain dead easy it is to execute and win. Once I left HGH I tried to go back a few times, but I couldn’t, I felt handicapped.

Care to elaborate?

Enhance Performance > HGH

And its at a lesser trait investment. Both is preferable, but a 10 second Med Kit rotation is optimal over Elixir H. For best results use 20/20/0/30/0 for HGH, Enhance Performance, and Juggernaut. Maintaining 17 stacks of might should be fairly easy once you’ve established a rotation.

Nilanil.4721:

Now, a Predator Drone kit is something I could support!
72864000 range (actual range of an MQ-1 Predator, in inches, for you realism freaks)
60000 damage
Unblockable

Check it out @3:00
http://youtu.be/KR2Esy83MQ0

Downed state is a very important aspect of the overall combat system, and in this state many classes are at a disadvantage, Engineer included. As possibly the worst idea imaginable, Engineers can provide the enemy a more convenient means of getting in close to stomp them with Grappling Wire. This can oftentimes even occur accidentally if the player happens to press the #2 skill as they go down, nullifying the Immobilize/cripple a few kits and Rifle have on that skill slot.

Q: When can we expect the Engineer Downed State skills to be changed? Are you planning to change them at all? Do you like Engineer’s facing a certain death when downed?

Nilanil.4721:

Obscure One.4357:

Dustfinger.9510:

Obscure One.4357:

I reject your reality and suppliment my own in which guns can accurately fire from the hip

Funfact: More commonly referred to as “point shooting”, it is and has been taught by various militaries throughout the world. It provides benefits in conditions and situations that aimed shooting would be hindered.

Well that explains ALOT! No wonder my United States Military has been kicking the crap outta these other countries for so long! They still haven’t figured out what those prong looking things on there guns are for!

“Run away! Run away! The Americans hold their weapons in some freakish alien manner allowing their bullets to hit us!”

Not to rain on your parade, but this method has been employed by the US military.

You know that because they want you to know that because they wanted their enemies to know that so that our enemies would miss while we high five each other, eat BBQ Hamburgers, and watch the live feed from the Predator drone lining up a volley of Hellfire missiles…counter intelligence is one thing but it’d be rude not to include them in the BBQ.

Dustfinger.9510:

Obscure One.4357:

I reject your reality and suppliment my own in which guns can accurately fire from the hip

Funfact: More commonly referred to as “point shooting”, it is and has been taught by various militaries throughout the world. It provides benefits in conditions and situations that aimed shooting would be hindered.

Well that explains ALOT! No wonder my United States Military has been kicking the crap outta these other countries for so long! They still haven’t figured out what those prong looking things on there guns are for!

“Run away! Run away! The Americans hold their weapons in some freakish alien manner allowing their bullets to hit us!”

Drakkon.4782:

Obscure One.4357:

I reject your reality and suppliment my own

FAILURE!

The quote is “I reject your reality and substitute my own!”

Oh nos!

Drakkon Uses Trivia Attack!

It’s Super Effective!

Critical Hit to the knee for over 9000!

Carzor Stelatis.9435:

Conan.8046:

A musket is not a rifle

Actually some of them are:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifle_musket

I reject your reality and suppliment my own in which guns can accurately fire from the hip, shoot glue, nets, and provide enough thrust and lift to launch me safely across a ravine…oh and people can get shot literally thousands of times with no long term health effects…well maybe carpal tunnel for the guy shooting…

Jigain.8231:

I like how people critique the lack of realism in a FICTIONAL FANTASY GAME.

Good work, people. Next, let’s protest outside the White House because no dragons are in the senate.

Hey you! Read the subsequent posts! We’re trying to derail this thread into something productive and you’re messing up our vibe.

Rifle roaming has become much more viable with the patch to Jump Shot, change in Sitting Duck trait, addition of Modified Ammunition, and Rocket Boots…dear lord Rocket boots.

Get yourself to around 3k power with at least 50% crit rate and 50% crit damage (not very difficult by the way) using Sitting Duck, Rifle Mod, and Modified Ammunition on a rifle with a Superior Rune of Force. Get in nice and close with net shot, do a point blank jump shot, use the Analyze toolbelt skill off of utility goggles, and hit them with Blunderbuss and Rocket Boots away.

Build a roamer around that (bomb kit is great to drop B’o’B and a Smoke Bomb to stealth away with Rocket Boots) and you’ll have some of the most fun you’ve ever had on an Engineer.

Found an image of that Sniper Rifle in action out there in the webernet:

Nilanil.4721:

Obscure One.4357:

Nilanil.4721:

kokocabana.8153:

Has anyone else ever come across those stationary environmental sniper rifles in Ascalon? There was a heart or event to snipe down bandits.

Forgot about those! I know one is by the Ogres in Plains of Ashford. Never got to use it though. Still…it’s very uncommon, I think.

Scroll up a tad and you’ll see a link to it in a post of mine :P

The link wasn’t working when I tried it. =)

Should be working now.

I think this concept may warrant a thread all its own. When I get a chance to I’ll get over to that sniper rifle, take some screens, and attempt to make a compelling argument in the Suggestion or General discussion thread.

Things that get posted in this sub-forum are about as likely to get a developer’s attention as they are to curing world hunger.

Nilanil.4721:

kokocabana.8153:

Has anyone else ever come across those stationary environmental sniper rifles in Ascalon? There was a heart or event to snipe down bandits.

Forgot about those! I know one is by the Ogres in Plains of Ashford. Never got to use it though. Still…it’s very uncommon, I think.

Scroll up a tad and you’ll see a link to it in a post of mine :P

Nilanil.4721:

Obscure One.4357:

Nilanil.4721

All grenade abilities are 1200, so that one is a long range specific weapon.

That sounds like a fun idea, but it seems to go completely against the general theme of mobility that the devs intended in all of the combat design. That, and I really don’t see it as something the class needs. Are you thinking in terms of PvP? I’m not a PvPer so I won’t comment on that aspect of the game at all.

Hitting anything other than stationary targets with a grenade at 1200 (1500 traited) in even a remotely viable manner is simply impractical for that long travel time of the projectile. They’re liable to see the grenade, take a sip of their drink, toggle walk, and leisurely stroll out of danger.

Now when it comes down to mobility focus in the game design I’d have to point you at every siege weapon in WvW aside from the (Siege Golem), a mirad of environmental PvE controllable turrets/cannons and even more specifically class based, the Mortar elite and both Tome elites for the Guardian. Sacrificing mobility for superior firepower is very much a combat element in Guild Wars 2.

Correct. That is an aspect of combat, but not the focus of combat mechanics. And we get mortar! How many of those environmental PvE controllable object’s ammunition travels anywhere near as fast and straight as what you’re looking for in a sniper rifle? I get that you’d like it, I just don’t see it as necessary or balanced given my experience so far.

Firstly you say we get Mortar like it’s a good thing. It’s literally the worst skill in the game even measured up against those branches that drop off of the Oak hearts. The rate of fire, slow projectiles, and less range than traited grenades, makes it unbearably unusable. I know of exactly 0 builds that effectively use it, and I can’t think of any reason at all to ever put it on my skill bar…unless I have some masochistic urge to give an enemy thief the ability to boon steal over 2 minutes of stability.

Secondly, the balance lies in either superior defense by being less mobile or superior offense while being immobile. Skills like Meteor Shower, Barrage, both guardian and engineer shield projectile blockers/knock backs all demonstrate a forfeit of mobility for a different advantage. A “Sniper Rifle” would cure multiple class woes in that regard, especially if it replaced the Mortar.

JobCreator.1956:

Such logic being thrown around in this thread, yet no response to the fact that grenades are thrown(with your arm) yet they have more range than a bullet from either pistol or rifle. This makes no sense. ANet needs to make grenade ranges more realistic, maybe exchange their current range with pistol’s. Then make pistols have current rifle range, and rifles current grenade(1500 upgraded) range. I think we can all agree that this would make things more realistic.

Realism sits secondary to game balance. Grenades need the range to DPS down distant stationary targets, like mortars, cannons, and other siege placements. Cutting their range puts them too close to danger and at a disadvantage to staff elementalists.

on a side note, adding a sniper rifle for engineers to replace the Mortar would be pretty simple since its already in the game: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sniper_Rifle

Nilanil.4721

All grenade abilities are 1200, so that one is a long range specific weapon.

That sounds like a fun idea, but it seems to go completely against the general theme of mobility that the devs intended in all of the combat design. That, and I really don’t see it as something the class needs. Are you thinking in terms of PvP? I’m not a PvPer so I won’t comment on that aspect of the game at all.

Hitting anything other than stationary targets with a grenade at 1200 (1500 traited) in even a remotely viable manner is simply impractical for that long travel time of the projectile. They’re liable to see the grenade, take a sip of their drink, toggle walk, and leisurely stroll out of danger.

Now when it comes down to mobility focus in the game design I’d have to point you at every siege weapon in WvW aside from the (Siege Golem), a mirad of environmental PvE controllable turrets/cannons and even more specifically class based, the Mortar elite and both Tome elites for the Guardian. Sacrificing mobility for superior firepower is very much a combat element in Guild Wars 2.