Guild Wars 2

Sazed.6730:

Obscure One.4357:

LostBalloon.6423:

Obscure One.4357:

LostBalloon.6423:

Martin Kerstein.3071:

I would like to update you on the current issue with WvW.

We have identified what is causing the problem and are currently working to resolve it.

Once we will reactivate WvW, the matchups that started last Friday will continue with the correct score.

Please note that all objectives will be reset to their starting state, and all siege weapons that were deployed will be gone.

I currently do not have an ETA for when WvW will be reactivated, but we will let you know immediately once it is up and running again.

Once again – apologies for any inconvenience caused.

I dont understand how this can happen. Why the hell is there no backup of the state wvw was in before the patch!?
The fact that it all resets will probably make the difference in us loosing the matchup this week… great…

…wait…seriously? You don’t get why they don’t roll back all their servers on a whim? Roll backs are only ever the last resort bro. First step is find the problem, if that problem is integral to the patch, I.e. cannot be removed without destabilizing the program, then you roll back. Otherwise ya find the break in code and patch it closed…it’s why we call them “patches”.

Second of all, if a few hours of a Tuesday morning is going to make your server lose, you probably weren’t going to win anyhow.

Before calling ppl idiots you should try not being an idiot.
-snip-

I never called anyone an idiot. Perhaps you have a guilty conscious? If so by all means continue with the QQ.

Just get it all out buddy. It’s all going to be OK.

AND to the kittenin idiot, there is a HUGE difference between rolling back DATA vs rolling back the actual PROGRAM. Specially since in this case no changes have been apparently been made to the data structure of the objects i expect to be restored to their initial state.

Please enlighten us all on the difference between data and a program. I’m dying to know.

I am not the OP, but… rolling back a program requires a new build. So maybe they have a git repository with all of their code and they have patched and then built a new .exe from that source to get where they are now. Then they find the WvW bug, and they have to patch the source and create a new .exe (program). That program will contain all of the last patches changes, and the most recent fix.

Separate from that, they have data stored on their servers that the program accesses to fill in all of the information the GUI displays. Rolling this data back does not require the build to change.

These are separate entities, and changing the program does not HAVE to touch the data, hence why the siege and keeps/towers, etc., for each color didn’t change, but something the program did caused the realm associated with that color/matchup to change. That said, the way the program interacted with the data may require a manual rewrite, making it relatively easy to keep the points where they are while fixing the matchups, but at the expense of individual data for each keep/tower/siege.

I am clearly speculating about why, but what it does mean is that all of the T3 upgrades and defense a server has put into the matchup will be wiped and that gives every server that was unable to keep their towers/keeps new life to get back into it.

Presuming data is archived in real time by the program, modifications to this data, after the point of patching the program, are likely to become dependant to that build if this data set is dependent on any portion of the patch. If data is not archived in real time (likely case) there’s nothing to revert back to other than a default state set by the programming.

Though what I was getting at with my initial statement is that though all data isn’t a program, all programs are in fact data =P

LostBalloon.6423:

Martin Kerstein.3071:

I would like to update you on the current issue with WvW.

We have identified what is causing the problem and are currently working to resolve it.

Once we will reactivate WvW, the matchups that started last Friday will continue with the correct score.

Please note that all objectives will be reset to their starting state, and all siege weapons that were deployed will be gone.

I currently do not have an ETA for when WvW will be reactivated, but we will let you know immediately once it is up and running again.

Once again – apologies for any inconvenience caused.

I dont understand how this can happen. Why the hell is there no backup of the state wvw was in before the patch!?
The fact that it all resets will probably make the difference in us loosing the matchup this week… great…

…wait…seriously? You don’t get why they don’t roll back all their servers on a whim? Roll backs are only ever the last resort bro. First step is find the problem, if that problem is integral to the patch, I.e. cannot be removed without destabilizing the program, then you roll back. Otherwise ya find the break in code and patch it closed…it’s why we call them “patches”.

Second of all, if a few hours of a Tuesday morning is going to make your server lose, you probably weren’t going to win anyhow.

Meh. Chalk all this up to folks not paying enough attention. Me thinks a few files for the league patch didn’t get taken out with the rest of them when they changed their minds about when to go live with it.

We all screw up, it happens. But at least when I screw up there aren’t literally thousands of people seeing me do it…the pointing and laughing comes with the territory. Same reason I laugh at all those epic fails on YouTube =P

Manuhell.2759:

Albeit, to use speedy kits you need to invest points in the tools tree – something you can’t do at will, where the other classes’ signets are utilities and thus changeable in every moment.

Once your accustomed to it, you won’t want to change it at will.

I don’t think I run builds anymore that don’t start with a base of 0/0/10/10/10, so if I do have the odd desire to drop Speedy Kits it’s just as easy to change out as a utility skill.

With Rocket Boots + Jump Shot + Acid Bomb all under permanent swiftness, Engineers looking to be mobile can be incredibly so…I know I am lol.

VIVorcha.7853:

Please?

We can all unite to agree that our downed skills suck, right?

The 1 skill applies a random condition, making the DPS from it not reliable enough to achieve a rally.

The 2 skill only hits a single target and INVITES THEM INTO MELEE RANGE TO STOMP YOU. The 2 skill in the downed state is supposed to be defensive, and bringing an enemy closer does not fall into that category. The only thing going for it is that it interrupts, but all the other 2 skills do that better.

The 3 skill takes forever to warm up, and it’s just not worth it. It should have been our 2 skill. All of the other classes can either escape or heal with their 3 skill. Instead, we get an average AOE control with a huge warm-up and cooldown.

Can we switch the 3 skill to slot 2, and get a new 3 skill?

I think downed states will get an overhaul after this MLG attempt fails at putting GW2 on the e-sport radar. Due in large part to this “from zero to hero” Elementalist down state bull &$#@. I’d personally like to see #3 moved to #2 as you suggest and an RNG elixir on skill #3 that can proc Vengeance or Vapor Form. “Elixir V” perhaps?

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Obscure One.4357:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Obscure One.4357:

Why is this an OR question? I use both.

Pro Tip: Weapon swap as you use Acid Bomb if you want to cancel the leap. Allows for a triple leap finish with Jump Shot then Rocket Boots. Great for Healing Turret water fields and stacking Retaliation off of Super Elixir.

the main thing i dont like about Acid Bomb is the fact it sends you BACKWARDS – send me forwards, great i will use it. Send me backwards? No thanks.

Step One: hot key “About Face”
Step Two: release mouse “Camera Look” (normally right click)
Step Three: press “About Face”, press #4, then press “About Face” again.

See how you now just leapt FORWARDS?

It takes a bit of practice but you’ll get it. It ain’t easy being greasy bro.

OR i could press 1 button with Rocket Boots and boom all of that done.

Entirely up to you what you think is best for your build. I use both, and now that muscle memory has set in I don’t even notice the extra key strokes. All the arguments I hear against using the E. Gun are a matter of personal preference and a reluctance to learn it’s intricacies. The reason to use Rocket Boots over Elixir Gun comes down to build synergy. If you’re running Cloaking Device, Rocket Boots are a perfect choice. If you’re running Initial Converter (15 tools) having a stun break that automatically recharges at 25% hp is a superior option. If you run both those traits I suggest using both of these skills (Med Kit is also a favorite when it comes down to inertial converter).

Granted if you run Cloaking Device and don’t use Rocket Boots I recommend using rifle with auto target off. Overcharged shot cures the same mobility conditions and will reposition you under stealth if you don’t shoot anyone on accident.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Obscure One.4357:

Why is this an OR question? I use both.

Pro Tip: Weapon swap as you use Acid Bomb if you want to cancel the leap. Allows for a triple leap finish with Jump Shot then Rocket Boots. Great for Healing Turret water fields and stacking Retaliation off of Super Elixir.

the main thing i dont like about Acid Bomb is the fact it sends you BACKWARDS – send me forwards, great i will use it. Send me backwards? No thanks.

Step One: hot key “About Face”
Step Two: release mouse “Camera Look” (normally right click)
Step Three: press “About Face”, press #4, then press “About Face” again.

See how you now just leapt FORWARDS?

It takes a bit of practice but you’ll get it. It ain’t easy being greasy bro.

Player Character.9467:

Obscure One.4357:

Player Character.9467:

Sanduskel.1850:

Player Character.9467:

Sanduskel.1850:

Condition removal is op. where is the power removal?

It’s called toughness

Nope.
Try again.

http://i.imgur.com/Oq5dRt4.jpg
Check out what big ol bomb does with no toughness. Now tell me when the last time you heard of it doing that much was.

Been awhile since I tested it, but I would analyze a target for a quick 10 stack vulnerability, drop a glue bomb, drop B’o’B, use magnet pull, and use Elixir X. If it proc’d Rampager it would hit for an excess of 20k due to the power scaling of the elite form. If traited for it (and you get lucky on the proc) you can do this combo every 84 seconds.

Your welcome.

So… 37k->20-24k, oh look! Power removal!

Forgive me for not having damage numbers against naked level 2 up leveled’s.

37k against that is not all that crazy to me, nor is it relevant to something one may actually encounter. Full 25 vulnerability on the target, full 25 might on the engineer spec’d for zerker, it’s a believable number to see against any level 2 thief running around nude. Dare I say I may see if I can could get even higher numbers.

Why is this an OR question? I use both.

Pro Tip: Weapon swap as you use Acid Bomb if you want to cancel the leap. Allows for a triple leap finish with Jump Shot then Rocket Boots. Great for Healing Turret water fields and stacking Retaliation off of Super Elixir.

Nice guide!

I’ve only really used Rifle and Thumper, as with deployable turrets, both are nice. Dropping Thumper and immediately overcharging it on someone at range is good for obvious reasons, especially with a Supply Drop follow up, and an Overcharged shot once in range.

With the new patch going in on the 18th that’ll make turrets attack your target, I may be knocking the dust off of Net Turret.

selan.8354:

Sarlack.4096:

Certainly not the best but I have good fun on my LB/GS Bunker Ranger.

Details:

I run a Hybrid DD Bunker build, static Wolf Pet with Master Bond
Build is here: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMUQJARTjAVV2JWCWs2Bi2jJZpzzKoo3D0v+2nyPqwbPA-jUDBYMYoNBigAj+IQJQFRjtCqIasqZAqGY6SJV/KyWzB2gGylQZVKAmUGB-w

Benefits ( I am Rank 235 so I have +100 Power/Condi and +2500 hits, also bloodlust stacks not factored in link)

- 20K hits with stacks
- Barkskin Dam Reduc, kicks in at 5K hits
- 60% static condition reduction (Hoelbrak+Poultry lemongrass)
- Passive SoTW and Pet Regeneration
- Frequent dodges with Energy Sigils/Wilderness endo regen
- 2000 tough/3K armor without a signet
- Passive movement speed 25%
- Stun break (LR)
- 3500 attack with both 2H Weapons
- +550 to all pet stacks with 30BM/Masters Bond (Pet traited with +30 Movement rate)

Works real well in small man guild groups as well as solo play. LB is good fun at keep fights. Handling 1v2 quite well even vs tougher classes.

good to see a few rangers out there, but when we are talking about the meta its not about roaming and 1v1. mesmers do excellent in 1v1. i hate facing mesmers in a 1v1 and i main a mesmer…..the issue though is large group viability. i can take down a single warrior(on my roamin=spvp build) but the warrior trains are over the top atm. they are the new noob class and godmode in wvw.all u hear in ts is get on your warrior we are losing, cc on the right, cc there, veil, reroll warrior or get out, u are a rallly bot go warrior or guardian…..

I beat Mesmers all the time. The trick is to use W, S, A, D and ensure you’re moving in the direction opposite of the Mesmer, preferably under Swiftness, all whilst using your leap skills. Survive the predictable Phantasmal Berkerer by reserving condition removal for the cripple it inflicts and continue on with your day.

Player Character.9467:

Sanduskel.1850:

Player Character.9467:

Sanduskel.1850:

Condition removal is op. where is the power removal?

It’s called toughness

Nope.
Try again.

http://i.imgur.com/Oq5dRt4.jpg
Check out what big ol bomb does with no toughness. Now tell me when the last time you heard of it doing that much was.

Been awhile since I tested it, but I would analyze a target for a quick 10 stack vulnerability, drop a glue bomb, drop B’o’B, use magnet pull, and use Elixir X. If it proc’d Rampager it would hit for an excess of 20k due to the power scaling of the elite form. If traited for it (and you get lucky on the proc) you can do this combo every 84 seconds.

Your welcome.

PvE build? Yeah that’s easy, just run support.

Full clerics gear, runes of altruism, pistol (sigil of battle), shield (sigil of bloodlust), roll with Elixir Infused Bombs trait (30 Inventions) and at least 20 in explosives for Enhance Performance trait (use Med Kit). Throw the last 20 points wherever you feel like it, though I’d recommend Alchemy.

Hit like a truck, support like a BOSS. PvE will be your kitten…or female dog.

Warriors are the heart of the meta. They hit hard, they can take a beating, they can be built to nearly ignore conditions, and just about everything they do can support allies.

There’s a good reason 16% of the population is Warriors, a full 2% over it’s closest competitor. Based on a 3 million units sold figure 2% is 60,000 more Warriors.

So come on, roll a Warrior. Everyone else is doing it. Don’t you want to be popular?

I think this thread is slowly making headway towards being productive. I’m genuinely impressed with the haunts of this sub-forum.

The core “meat and taters” of the Thief class is stealing, it’s what it can do that no one else can. The initiative system however is the most significant difference between it and every other class as far as bare bones mechanics are concerned. Notably, steal is, IMO, extremely underpowered while the initiative system is a simply superior mechanic to weapon skill cool downs. Now maybe if every class could put in an equal trait investment to allow a reduction of cool downs on any weapon they use in the same way a thief can regain initiative to the point that it’s near unlimited skill use, then it’d be on par. As it stands though, I like this mechanic but it suffers from a design flaw: skill cost to skill value inequity.

Stealth is infinitely more valuable to a thief than any other class so skills that can generate it are a much better expenditure of it’s initiative than skills that don’t. That being as it is the bulk of thieves rock the offhand pistol or offhand dagger for exactly this reason. The myriad of things that can trigger upon stealth for thieves make the buff even more attractive to not only be undetectable, but also cure conditions, heal, recover initiative, and gain swiftness + vigor. Essentially a #5 skill that grants stealth or provides the means to, cures conditions, heals, grants swiftness and vigor, and helps pay for it’s initiative cost, all whilst giving the Thief access to it’s most damaging skills.

So to balance this out, instead of looking at the core mechanics of the class and adding in versatility to add viability to other builds and toning down the stealth based mechanics of the Thief, ANet sails their nerfship to war on Stealth floating on a sea of scrub tears.

Face it. The thief is designed to do single target damage, be invisible, and be less than useful at anything else. It’s a failure in core class design and desperately needs work, ESPECIALLY on steal mechanics (Thief with no offhand needs to have a native 20% shorter steal CD and be able to store stolen skills in #4 and #5).

It really comes down to the mechanics of the existing mode. 2 faction systems are notoriously imbalanced as when the other side begins to gain a lead it snow balls; losing side quits or swaps sides and the winning side gets over populated. Simple as that.

3 faction systems only work when it’s in the middle or losing side’s best interest to attack the winning side. But as it stands it’s either a free-for-all or you just attack the side the winning side is also attacking.

Just need to redo the scoring system is all. Bring back the old orb mechanic but no stupid buff mechanic. You grab the orb, you put the orb on the altar, you accrue “war score” points (or what the &#$@ ever they’re called) for as long as you hold it. All other capture points (keeps, sentries, camps, towers, the castle) would only award points at the point of capture, and not for as long as you hold them. To counter the disincentive to defend each successful defend event competed would award points based on the point being defended, I.E. defending a camp might be worth 1 war score point but defending Stonemist might be worth 10.

This way winning the match means capturing the orbs that would grant like 150 points per tick for as long as you can hold them. You losing? Wanna win? Attack the side hoarding the orbs. Crappy meta problem solved.

This “oh the orb mechanic was to easy to hack” excuse is bull $&#@. ANet makes online massively multiplayer games for a living, it’s their job to develop necessary asset protection in their design to ensure the entertainment product provides the end user with the intended game experience. Stating they can’t do it is admission they suck at their job.

Ya know this could have been avoided if someone years ago sat down at a development meeting and said:

“I think players may expect to have Guild versus Guild in a game called Guild Wars. I mean, Dungeons and Dragons would be an odd name if there were no dungeons or dragons in their game. Besides, it’s the main event for pvp in our franchise.”

Come to think of it Guild Wars 2 makes more sense being called Dungeons and Dragons…pesky copyright laws.

…and no, it was not named by the handful of lines you’ll completely miss in every game in the series if you aren’t looking for them. I swear every time I mention the nonsense of calling the game something it has nothing to do with I get some lunatic acting like lore dev’s run the studio…stahppit.

Drys.4018:

For someone so well versed in “logic” you should really reconsider the validity of your premises.

The forums only repent a fraction of the people who play the game. The forums are also heavily biased towards people who have complaints about the game. I’m more inclined to believe the statement from someone who has access to the numbers for all subscribers than someone who based their judgment off of forms and a /say poll in LA…

Presuming the community at large is or not a reflection of forum discussions is not what I’m getting at.

I like to think I can trust my own experience for what it is. Then when that experience is seen to not be isolated to my experience, what does that say? That our experiences are isolated and non representative of the rest of the community whom share our servers? If we’re imagining this why is it just us?

The natural thing to do is to conclude these experiences are just as real as the metrics, and if they are non representative of each other the next logical step is to propose an idea why that is. Either I’m delusional, which if I am there’s no way for me to figure that out since I’d be delusional, or there’s some validity to my observations in the OP.

lordkrall.7241:

Obscure One.4357:

Basic deduction dictates when someone sees something and that something is corroborated by the majority then that something is likely the closest to reality. Devon has said multiple times the numbers he’s seeing aren’t declining yet the numbers everyone on the forums are seeing are. Logical deduction is he’s not making the a connection between metrics.

And yet not “everyone on the forums” see numbers declining either.
And technically the only real numbers are the numbers Devon have, since he does have exact numbers of the players in WvW and their increase and/or decline. Thus his number is much more likely to be unbiased than “random forum poster that lost his guild # 9001”, right?

Correct. Perhaps “everyone” was bit dramatic of a term to use. Myself and those like me are seeing a decline in numbers.

The fact that this is not being seen in the metrics begs to question why I am seeing it. If speaking only for myself it’s clear the metric is a better judge, but even still there are realities of game design that are manifesting that confirm my suspicions. Examples include the WxP system, fit to be grinded for an unknowable amount of time depending on how many alts a given player has. The restriction of ascended weapons, another grind element, to crafting. These are tell tale signs that the system, which was not initially designed to be a grind, is accommodating more and more grinding elements. Now I have a myraid of theories ranging from GW2 lacking end-game content, to just the common practice in the MMO market, but the one that makes the most sense is it’s a decision based purely on metrics.

I may have come off as presumptive, but I hold myself to no different standard than I hold anyone else, and if I’m proven wrong I can accept that and apologize. Though as it stands I have made some predictions and though I could be entirely off base and wrong if they actually turn out to be true I’m not above quoting myself and talking @#$%. Seems only fitting with all the trash talk about “other MMO’s” GW2 built it’s hype engine on, that it come back around when they turn out to suffer the same fate due to their design failures.

Vindictive? Sure, I’ll take that.

lordkrall.7241:

I would love to know how you have the information about what the devs see and don’t see, because apparently you have much better insights than the rest of us on these forums.

I also love the fact that you talk about e-sports, when WvW have never in any way or form been talked about with e-sport.

Basic deduction dictates when someone sees something and that something is corroborated by the majority then that something is likely the closest to reality. Devon has said multiple times the numbers he’s seeing aren’t declining yet the numbers everyone on the forums are seeing are. Logical deduction is he’s not making the a connection between metrics.

And as for WvW not being an e-sport I never expected it to be, not made such a statement to insinuate it should be albeit have offered ideas in other threads in how it could be with GvG. If sPvP was e-sport quality many would be doing that instead of WvW, myself included.

Anything else you would like me to elaborate on?

It’s obvious by now that the development team has abandoned the core concept of a grind free, e-sport quality, fun driven content system we all had hoped for. Why? Simple. Metrics.

Metrics are a useful tool in determining many things but the draw back is they’re just numbers and it’s left to the human interpreting what those numbers mean to facilitate an informed decision to act on them.

For instance it’s a fact that a person is more likely to get in a car accident if they’re wearing a rain coat. True story. Metrics would present this as perhaps people should be prevented from wearing rain coats while driving. Once rain coat prevention measures are put in place results are seen, and the number of accidents in which drivers are wearing rain coats plummets. Crisis averted right?

It’s not what it looks like.

The reason people in rain coats were more likely to get in an accident wasn’t due to rain coats, but the reason why people wear rain coats to begin with: it’s raining. Inclement weather was the actual cause but the metrics don’t make these kinds of connections for you, you have to make them yourself.

This is exactly what Devon and his team of WvW dev’s are doing. They only see WvW metrics, only the rain coats, and they don’t see the metrics of the Gem Store, PvE or sPvP, I.E. they don’t see the rain. This is why they keep seeing numbers in WvW rise as all the regulars see them fall.

It’s nearly to late, the damage is nearly irreparable, but perhaps this post will appeal to their logic and they’ll finally see the rain before GW2 solidifies into just another boring MMO we all used to play.

Meh, not really. Charr racial utility skills give some interesting tool belts, and the Human elite Avatar of Grenth is neat to play with on a bomber build, but it’s not like it’s any kind of special.

Any race is fine I suppose.

aspirine.6852:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

aspirine.6852:

Why is that just this skill/profession is so much discussed. It cannot be because people like playing against it, there has been a major complaint against stealth afaik from the beginning. It does not fit the game it clearly outshines anything else in the game because you can see it from the topics. Everyone but thiefs hates their stealth.

is stealth spammable?,e how I see it is you are qqing because one you are lazy, or two want everything to be easy for you.

Is stealth spammable, ah yes when it matters it is. And I do not care if you call me lazy, fact is that this profession has the possibility to strike when noone is expecting it. And that is not the kind of fight I enjoy. Am I lazy that I enjoy fighting all other classes but the thief? Or perhaps it’s possible that there is something really wrong with stealth in this game.

You tell me what you think is wrong with stealth and I’ll show you it has nothing to do with Stealth and everything to do with Thieves.

Stealth is a predominantly balanced mechanic.

DevonCarver.5370:

The main reason to not make it overly beneficial is that it creates a disincentive to have a full map of players at that point, which is where the balance comes in.

#facepalm -.-’

Small incentive to play when outnumbered: Outnumbered buff
Reason: it creates a disincentive if it’s overly beneficial

Massive disincentive to play when outnumbered: Bloodlust buff
Reason: development of WvW is determined by a leprechaun that Devon can only consult with if he can manage to reach the end of a rainbow before it disappears.

You keep saying “balance”…but I don’t think it means what you think it means…

DevonCarver.5370:

I’d just like to make a note of one thing that I think people aren’t considering when they transfer to stacked worlds. You will not, repeat will not, be able to receive the reward based on overall world place in the league, unless you achieve the meta achievement for the season. If you aren’t able to get into WvW much, you won’t get the rewards. So it is absolutely taking a risk to transfer to a world that has a large WvW population.

A flawed perspective.

No Risk for little to no Reward vs Risk it all for the biggest Reward.

Sounds like someone has never been to Vegas.

Rewards aside, no one is going to enjoy being on the losing team. The point is for the game to be fun, which is the reason it’s an entertainment product. Not fun? Not entertaining.

Besides if we wanted shiny meaningless rewards we’d be in PvE. “Oh you got the Gold rewards from the leagues?! So what…so did literally everyone else on the server…and ya got it by bullying inferior servers…wanna cookie?”

Hate to bust your bubble, but I don’t think you get it bro…

Oh look, businesses as usual in the Thief sub-forum: QQ, Troll, QQ, Troll, QQ, Troll, and on and on.

Nothing is wrong with Stealth!

If a player perma stealth builds and gets results even if it’s 5, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, stealth, recover, repeat, it doesn’t make the player a scrub, it means the class is scrubby. Don’t hate the player, hate the game. The thief mechanics are designed to be spammed, it’s by it’s own nature a scrub system.

Stealth is fine, and actually I think it’s a little under powered with this bull$&!# Revealed debuff automatically triggering when you drop out of stealth. Countering your Stealth with your Stealth is a &$#!ing stupid mechanic that says “oh were to lazy to make stealth counters part of active skill based play so we’re going to cater to bad players”. Revealed debuffs should only occur when a thief in stealth is hit with a stun effect (fear, knockdown, blowout, etc.) which every class has. Don’t have one on your build? You’re just a loot bag with legs anyways.

The problem is the Thief has a small handful of viable builds, all of which are extremely similar, and all rely on stealth in at least small amounts (which is still more than any class other than Mesmer). That needs to change.

The only reason I learned to counter thieves is they all did the same handful of things at the exact times. I even mastered the distance and timing of steal to evade and CC them in the face. So they can stealth and get away? Good! They need to stealth and recover since plan B is get murdered by the Engineer they shouldn’t have #&@!ed with. That is a problem. The class shouldn’t be addicted to stealth like a junkie that’ll die without it’s drugs. It needs improvements in such a way that if your a skilled player the class is noticeably more effective than a scrub player. As it stands I have maybe 17 hours of experience with a thief and I can Black Powder + Heartseeker + Backstab my way to victory against folks who have played the class for thousands of hours. This is a problem.

In summary, stop pointing at stealth like it’s the bad guy, it’s a powerful ability that uses balanced mechanics except for the Revealed nonsense. Thief mechanics are the bad guy we need to be talking about fixing them.

EX:
Heartseeker spam fix? Turn it into a three skill chain, the first is a leap, the second is an evade, the third is a chill.

Black Powder abuse? Turn it into a dark field and let P/P leach health like a boss with it, put the smoke field on Blinding Powder.

Low to no stealth builds? You can use your Stealth attack for 2 seconds after using a teleport.

Unused dual wield #3 skills since no one goes without an offhand weapon? Make a thief with no off hand store up to 2 stolen skills in the #4 and #5 slots.

That’s the kinda stuff we need to be talking about.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Obscure One.4357:

Shemsu.8721:

Obscure One.4357:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Dee Jay.2460:

Stealth does not make Thieves disappear.

Tell that to my ranger pet – thieves have this core mechanic that totally and fully puts the rangers’ core mechanic out of the game.

You see…this is what I’m talking about.

Stealth is not a core mechanic of thieves. You remove thieves from the game and stealth is still there. You remove rangers from the game and pets aren’t in the game. See the difference?

Fundamental difference between core mechanics of thief and core mechanics of stealth. Stealth is not a core class mechanic anymore than the Burning condition is a Guardians core class mechanic.

Just run “Sic Em!” after the up coming patch and your problems will be solved…well other than the fact ANet has yet to make Rangers as viable as literally any other class outside of sPvP because they’re seemingly obsessed with halfassing class mechanics.

Stealth attacks are a unique mechanic EXCLUSIVE to thieves. no other classes attacks change when in stealth, despite half the classes in game having stealth access. In addition we have an entire traitline dedicated to stealth. So yeah I’d say stealth is pretty built in to thief CORE design

Unique mechanics built into the class that’re exclusive to the class are exactly the thing we should be talking about. If you notice, we are in compete agreement on the subject. Stealth is not a mechanic of thieves, thieves use stealth more frequently than every other class, they have mechanics that rely on it, but it’s not their core mechanic. My Engineer can’t use Stealth Attacks, nor has the ability to trait to remove conditions or heal in stealth just as a thief can’t use tool belt skills or trait to be immune to conditions below 25% hp. Core mechanics of stealth are being targeted far too often when it’s not, has not, and likely will continue not to be the issue.

Thief core mechanics revolve around stealth, not vice versa. You fix the thief you fix the problem. Again, if thieves just magically disappear from the game Stealth mechanics will not magically disappear as well. The class needs major work and everyone is pointing at something that isn’t the problem.

Obscure is correct stealth is not broken, but I disagree on it not being a mechanic of the thief. Almost all thief builds rely on stealth to allow any form of damage mitigation and viability, excluding S/d, but people are qqing about that so it will be nerfed soon. The thief class is not broken. Should they look at the trait allocation and make it slightly more structured on how you spec to have the damage and stealth both being utilised without blindly nerfing the class to ground.

You just gave me a glimmer of hope that this may become a productive discussion. Your very nearly seeing my point of view.

My Ranger can gain stealth, my Engineer can gain stealth, and Mesmers can gain stealth. These are not core mechanics of the classes just as it’s not a core mechanic of the Thief. Hell a few blasts in an ally supplied smoke field and any one can stealth. Since the Thief class leans on stealth like a crutch it’s easy to fall into the trap of seeing it as a core mechanic since outside of it build viability drops dramatically. This is the problem. The class is being criticised and balanced around a mechanic that is not unique to it (I.E. core) and that is a failure in class design.

Adamantium.3682:

Didn’t turrets used to do that way back in beta but they fixed those? If you change the utility of a turret while it’s active, now it will explode but I’m pretty sure it used to just stay out.

Can’t say I recall that in beta, but then again I can’t remember where I put my keys half the time, so it’s likely they did.

Though in the spirit of staying on topic, I don’t feel Elixir X is any less useful than either of the forms available to the classes it draws it’s RNG from. I think that Elixir X is actually more powerful as it can be traited for both cd reduction and longer duration in contrast to Warrior and Elementalist that can do neither.

Disastro.4086:

Obscure One.4357:

Pro Tip: when it comes to Mine, use the tool belt and the utility, then swap it out. They stay placed for their duration. The FT tool belt is also something I’ll cycle that sticks around after you swap out the utility to something you actually want to use. Incendiary Ammo in a build that doesn’t use a flame thrower? Yep, I do that.

Shoosh we’re not suppose to talk about this. I thought this was an unbreakable rule since you know late beta. :P

13 months of bug reports and it’s still that way even after they fixed the underwater double heal trick which basically did the same thing? Either they don’t care (most likely) or it’s working as intended.

Disastro.4086:

Adamantium.3682:

You’re right it is no different. If people use Mine Kit in an interrupt build with Perplexity runes to great success, it doesn’t mean Mine Kit is good. It means the rune is good because without it you probably wouldn’t be using Mine Kit. Same with Altruism runes, if Med Kit was rarely used without them then yes I would also be saying Med Kit is not good because it’s only the runes making them useful. Clearly that isn’t the case with Med Kit, but I think it is with Throw Mine and Elixir X.

If the skill is only good because of a certain rune, I think that suggests the skill is probably not very good and needs to be looked at.

Just in defense of Mine it has it’s uses outside of perplexity in WvW / sPvP the damage it does in power heavy builds is quite acceptable as well the knockback use is fairly obvious and in WvW putting it at portals along with the thrown mines and with all the necro marks stacked up it helps keep people out and instagibs squishies. It’s also nice when scouting/defending camps/bloodlust node. All this assuming of course you have forceful explosives trait otherwise its garbage due to the small radius.

IIRC Mines are getting the same radius increases bombs are receiving next balance patch as well.

Pro Tip: when it comes to Mine, use the tool belt and the utility, then swap it out. They stay placed for their duration. The FT tool belt is also something I’ll cycle that sticks around after you swap out the utility to something you actually want to use. Incendiary Ammo in a build that doesn’t use a flame thrower? Yep, I do that.

Shemsu.8721:

Obscure One.4357:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Dee Jay.2460:

Stealth does not make Thieves disappear.

Tell that to my ranger pet – thieves have this core mechanic that totally and fully puts the rangers’ core mechanic out of the game.

You see…this is what I’m talking about.

Stealth is not a core mechanic of thieves. You remove thieves from the game and stealth is still there. You remove rangers from the game and pets aren’t in the game. See the difference?

Fundamental difference between core mechanics of thief and core mechanics of stealth. Stealth is not a core class mechanic anymore than the Burning condition is a Guardians core class mechanic.

Just run “Sic Em!” after the up coming patch and your problems will be solved…well other than the fact ANet has yet to make Rangers as viable as literally any other class outside of sPvP because they’re seemingly obsessed with halfassing class mechanics.

Stealth attacks are a unique mechanic EXCLUSIVE to thieves. no other classes attacks change when in stealth, despite half the classes in game having stealth access. In addition we have an entire traitline dedicated to stealth. So yeah I’d say stealth is pretty built in to thief CORE design

Unique mechanics built into the class that’re exclusive to the class are exactly the thing we should be talking about. If you notice, we are in compete agreement on the subject. Stealth is not a mechanic of thieves, thieves use stealth more frequently than every other class, they have mechanics that rely on it, but it’s not their core mechanic. My Engineer can’t use Stealth Attacks, nor has the ability to trait to remove conditions or heal in stealth just as a thief can’t use tool belt skills or trait to be immune to conditions below 25% hp. Core mechanics of stealth are being targeted far too often when it’s not, has not, and likely will continue not to be the issue.

Thief core mechanics revolve around stealth, not vice versa. You fix the thief you fix the problem. Again, if thieves just magically disappear from the game Stealth mechanics will not magically disappear as well. The class needs major work and everyone is pointing at something that isn’t the problem.

Adamantium.3682:

Obscure One.4357:

QFT

I don’t have the desire to keep repeating myself, but at least I know the combo to get access to a nearly 30 second stability in a form I can activate every 84 seconds coupled with a condition clear and every boon that will last 50% longer and grant 9% more damage will never get nerfed since it’s so under utilized.

I don’t think it’s fair to use Rune of Lyssa to explain why Elixir X is good. Sure they’re a good combo, but just because Rune of Lyssa works well with Elixir X doesn’t make Elixir X a good skill. It makes Lyssa a good rune.

I just don’t like the RNG. There is a place where both forms work great, though I mostly prefer the Rampage, I just usually get the one I don’t want. This is why I just don’t slot Elixir X that often, I don’t like needing one thing and getting another. Even in builds where it would work well, I’d rather just have the AOE stun and some extra immobilize/heals from Supply Crate than have to blow my elite for something that isn’t helpful.

I hope at some point we can just get 5 unique skills so it’s an actual Engineer transformation. I don’t think that would be overly hard to implement.

It’s no different than using a rune set like perplexity to justify a build with a lot of interrupts, or altruism for a build that uses a med kit rotation for permanent swiftness, might, fury, and vigor. Engineer builds are not critters you can isolate from their gear choices and expect them to perform. It is and remains only as good as the person using it. If only more skills and classes could be that transparent…

OGDeadHead.8326:

Dee Jay.2460:

Stealth does not make Thieves disappear.

Tell that to my ranger pet – thieves have this core mechanic that totally and fully puts the rangers’ core mechanic out of the game.

You see…this is what I’m talking about.

Stealth is not a core mechanic of thieves. You remove thieves from the game and stealth is still there. You remove rangers from the game and pets aren’t in the game. See the difference?

Fundamental difference between core mechanics of thief and core mechanics of stealth. Stealth is not a core class mechanic anymore than the Burning condition is a Guardians core class mechanic.

Just run “Sic Em!” after the up coming patch and your problems will be solved…well other than the fact ANet has yet to make Rangers as viable as literally any other class outside of sPvP because they’re seemingly obsessed with halfassing class mechanics.

TheGuy.3568:

This topic comes up a few times a month. Most of the time the person complaining does not use the skill heavily, plays a condi build, or both.

The main issue is that most people do not understand elixir X has 3 primary uses. The first 2 uses are applicable in both forms. It is simply AoE CC (both forms). That is what you use it for. Many builds without stability or heavy evades can be countered by using this skill appropriately. It is your best access to stability. Want to make a hammer or mace warrior cry? Pop this skill. The other skill applies to rampage. It can be used as a Catch up skill or a running skill. It really is that simple. If you have bomb kit you can use it to enhance BoB.

The skill has a shorter cd when traited than the 2 elites that go into it. The fact is those who tend to complain about this skill really do not use it. Many who do use it know how good it is. I does not need to be rehashed 6 times month because some payer thought they had a good idea. The skill is fine exactly as it is. This topic does not need to be repeated.

QFT

I don’t have the desire to keep repeating myself, but at least I know the combo to get access to a nearly 30 second stability in a form I can activate every 84 seconds coupled with a condition clear and every boon that will last 50% longer and grant 9% more damage will never get nerfed since it’s so under utilized.

Asudementio.8526:

Obscure One.4357:

mrmadhaze.8706:

Obscure One.4357:

I suggest you folks discountinue steamtrolling every recommended balancing suggestion with the aforementioned common counter arguments.

Which balancing suggestions are you talking about?
The classic it’s broken nerf it, no more bs damage, every single aoe/cc/skill must break stealth and put revealed 20 seconds, -50% speed, 1 stealth per day etc etc?
Or the classic stealth is broken use another build, but the other build is broken aswell QQ?
And from who these suggestions? The classic rageguy who run with a random build who open tons of junky threads?
Becouse till now i didnt read suggestions here or in other threads, only complaints.

And all ANet sees when they skim this sub forum to get a feel for the community consensus is exactly that. A bunch of scrubs QQing and a bunch of trolls never suggesting anything other than “learn to play”. But you know what complaints on this forums contain? Ideas to fix the class, no matter how shortsighted and soaking wet with scrub tears they are. The replies to them offer nothing, and thus ANet will just make up their own mind on persisting to have a class that only has one specialty and almost non-existent versatility.

Seems to me that you are ignoring the fact that all of these suggestions to fix the class are usually A) short-sighted and biased in that they intend to break the class or poorly thought out

Seems to me that you are ignoring the fact that I said all of these suggestions are short sighted. Thanks for helping me prove my point there can be no productive discussion in this sub forum.

And for clarification something shortsighted is by default poorly thought out, no A nor B about it.

Straegen.2938:

Obscure One.4357:

They’re going to get nerfed. With as much confusion, bleeding, burning, poison, and might I can stack up on my Engineer, the build is flat out uncounterable. Condition clears? Yawn. Just a slower death. Multiple targets? All the interrupts I use are multi target (Supply Crate, both shield skills, Air Blast) and Static Shot, pistol #3 that inflicts confusion and blind, bounces.

This build is probably the scariest thing in solo/roamer WvW right now. A decent player commanding it is a REALLY hard fight since there are so few counters to it. It is heavily bunkered so direct damage is tough, has better range than just about any other build, no class has enough CC to keep the conditions off and while its damage isn’t epic when a player hits cooldown the fight is all but over since the conditions pile up. Maybe another condi-bunker can take one down but even that I am not so sure about.

Nerfing these runes shouldn’t be a matter of “if they do” but “when they do”. Condi HGH bunkers capable of such high damage output on a build that is purely defensive is flat out imbalanced.

mrmadhaze.8706:

Obscure One.4357:

I suggest you folks discountinue steamtrolling every recommended balancing suggestion with the aforementioned common counter arguments.

Which balancing suggestions are you talking about?
The classic it’s broken nerf it, no more bs damage, every single aoe/cc/skill must break stealth and put revealed 20 seconds, -50% speed, 1 stealth per day etc etc?
Or the classic stealth is broken use another build, but the other build is broken aswell QQ?
And from who these suggestions? The classic rageguy who run with a random build who open tons of junky threads?
Becouse till now i didnt read suggestions here or in other threads, only complaints.

And all ANet sees when they skim this sub forum to get a feel for the community consensus is exactly that. A bunch of scrubs QQing and a bunch of trolls never suggesting anything other than “learn to play”. But you know what complaints on this forums contain? Ideas to fix the class, no matter how shortsighted and soaking wet with scrub tears they are. The replies to them offer nothing, and thus ANet will just make up their own mind on persisting to have a class that only has one specialty and almost non-existent versatility.

Advent.6193:

One could argue that all Rune choices should be both:

1. Strong
   and
2. Build-defining.

The choice of your “final” Rune spread should feel like it means something. The problem is that – bar some certain sets (Perplex, Melandru, Hoelbrak, and others in that overall range) – it doesn’t. Now, as for the OP-ness of Perplex, plenty of fair suggestions have been made, and continue to be created. However, that does not address the comparative weakness of other Rune sets.

TL;DR
Sure, there’re ways to bring Perplexity down a notch … but plenty of other Runes need brought the heck up.

If by “a notch” you mean procs on a single interrupted target and then goes on a 5 – 8 second internal cool down then yes I agree.

Additionally I agree other runes (and sigils as well) need some moderate to major improvements.

Daendur.2357:

Obscure One.4357:

*

Sorry, I miss your argument.
Except the brilliant “stealth is broken”, what can you say?

Arguments of “broken” vs “not broken” are equally shortsighted. If there was no thief class, and stealth still worked exactly as it does now, no one would be making either argument.

The core mechanics of the Thief class are highly restricted, juvenile in simplicity, and severely limiting to build versatility of the class.

No thief? No more problem.

But since that’s not going to happen I suggest you folks discountinue steamtrolling every recommended balancing suggestion with the aforementioned common counter arguments. ANet will otherwise nerf the class without your opinions much in how they implemented that kittened “Revealed” debuff that no one wanted in this game except for the scrub gamers who are bad with or without it. Countering stealth should be an active ability of enemy players not a default condition of using it…

At any rate, look how many trolls I’ve already gotten who already assumed I’m here to QQ because they presume I’m just another scrub that needed to “l2p”. There can’t be any rational discussion of how thieves use stealth mechanics in this sub-forum. It’s just endless trolls and trollbait.

I dunno about it being a water field. I like the Retaliation from leaping and blasting in it to add insult to injury from all the confusion I stack on them with perplexity runes. It’s also about the only useful field for a turret build as if you can stand between a rifle turret and what ever it’s deciding to target at the time you can get a steady stream of condition removals. There’s also using it right before you use Elixir X as the leaps and blasts on Ramager will give you retaliation from it and since retaliation scales on power and the power scaling on Rampager is pretty epic, people hitting you will not enjoy taking an excess of 300 damage per hit back in their face. Even tornado proc is solid for the light field since it’ll spam condition removal as a whirl finisher.

I think I like having a predictable light field, if only for the sake of having that option.

@Yamsandjams

Mine and Mine Field would be excellent candidates for a stealth counter. Though the random scatter of the Mine Field tool belt needs some optimizing, the revealed debuffing caused would be balanced in delivery if perhaps just the utility Mine caused the debuff, and the Mine Field tool belt mines also caused cripple to provide synergy.

@Writetyper

This would hit Mesmers harder than thieves, as thieves can reenter stealth much more frequently. The only type of thief this would counter is the talentless stealth spammer. If that player decides to play a glass cannon thief, and then gets mad when he dies because his crutch of stealth got kicked out from under him, that’s his failure to not adapt nor have a plan B. I myself run pretty heavily into glass in my roaming Engineer, but I don’t have the privilege of relying on a spammable stealth mechanic to survive. I have to take defensive traits, and play intelligently when up against hard counter builds (Reflect Mesmers for one are brutal). I would like to see thief players required to play with at least some semblance of that skill requirement, and it’s perfectly suited that the most challenging class to play in GW2 be given the tools to increase the skill floor required to play the least challenging class in GW2. I’d say that’d be straight up poetic justice.

Oh no this got moved to the thief forum…that’ll really encourage a rational discussion on stealth mechanics…
Heads up thieves we already have:
- “your bad, learn to play”
- “thief is easy to counter.”
- “stealth isn’t broken”

And a few other equally shortsighted arguments you folks are apt to making. But I suppose you can’t tell a troll not to troll any more than you can tell an idiot not to be an idiot…

josephleahy.2943:

sorry to upset you guys, the gun the guy is using is a exotic that was added during the champ update. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Exterminator

Nope the gun in the video is 100% a flamethrower. The Exterminator has a gold tube on the underside, a much sleeker looking ornament at the end of the barrel, and no canister of napalm sticking out of the top of it…the FT does.

That thing on his back however is not the FT backpack…speculate all you want about what that the @#$% ever that means. Wouldn’t say it’s false advertising as much as it’s jaded engineers reading to far into something that should’ve never been a problem at launch…stupid hobosacks…

^ That look is straight clean! Really dig the green SAB gear and how it matches well with magitech.

Got the blue stuff for myself. I run a couple different set ups: Blue for condition HGH bunker and Red for my static discharge roamer. Still working up the desire to play enough to make a third full gear set in green for my pure zerker grenadier keep defender.

Nuzt.7894:

Aside from that, we are not going to agree and your opinion is just as valid as mine so there really is no point to keep debating.

The validity of either of our opinions is irrelevant to the premise of the discussion. The fact is there’s obviously shoddy game design going on, neither of us is on opposite sides debating that. The reason folks want the system to be account bound is because that’s how the system was designed save for it actually being character bound. I’m all for character progression, I think it really boosts the longevity of a game, and is exactly as healthy for the game as you yourself have indicated you understand. However this thing they call a progression system mirrors the sPvP Glory system in nearly every way except for two things: it’s character bound, and liquid WxP mirrors Karma which is a currency system.

The Glory system is not a good model for a character bound system, and when it comes to Karma (which I have no idea why they went and made that account bound) when using in that same string of logic they used in making it account bound why oh why can my level 35 Elementalist reap all the Karma rewards of my four level 80’s, yet WxP gained is restricted? These are conflicting design strategies and I can’t make heads or tails of the development direction Arena Net is trying to take.

Suffice it to say, I don’t think we’re debating. We’re sharing non-conflicting thoughts on how stupid Arena Net’s WxP design is.

Well on the bright side we can all play State of Decay available on Steam in early access for about the cost of switching servers.

Fun Fact: the dev studio (Undead Labs) that produced it is headed up by Jeff Strain, one of the founders of Arena Net, executive producer of Guild Wars 1, and long lost lead programmer of World of Warcraft. The dude has major nerd cred.

Nuzt.7894:

There is a difference from missing the point and dissagreeing, you only want to do the grind once. I don’t agree with this, your entitled to want this, it does not mean I have to agree with what you want.

That’s kind of what he’s getting at Nuzt. It’d be one thing if it was a grind you even could do once, but as it stands it requires 1,315 points to max all trait lines. Which mean’s you need to hit rank 1,315 (roughly Silver Legend) before playing an alt is no longer time better spent on your main. And, that’s just with the current mastery lines. Note the ranking system goes all the way out to nearly 10,000, ultimately making it virtually impossible for many to actually “do the grind once”. This is just flat out not acceptable and a flagrant breach of Arena Net’s core vaules:

“We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun” – Colin Johanson, GW2: Manifesto

Which means even the development leadership know it’s not fun to do. If someone doesn’t know any better and does something wrong, that’s just ignorance, but if that someone does know better and does something wrong, that’s just stupid…ignorance is curable with knowledge, but stupidity is a terminal illness.

Latinkuro.9420:

yeah utility goggles seems like a great candidate for that

if they give engies stealth detection, I will play them just like i did powertech in swtor my only purpose was and will be to obliterate stealth classes

It’d be a good thing to trade out with the Fury which doesn’t really jive well on a stun break skill, though I’ve been apt to use it for just the fury on occasions where I’m not being focused, it always feels like a waste to use it when I’m not breaking a stun with it or negating some silly Dagger/Pistol scrub thief’s blind spam. Something as simple as “Break out of stun, gaining immunity to blindness, and revealing stealth enemies” , would function like a range 600 AoE “Revealed” debuff, but make it last for 5 and 6 seconds instead of the standard 3 and 4 in WvW and sPvP respectively.

Nuzt.7894:

Why does it matter then ? Are you asking for a title ? or am I missunderstanding your post ? If a title is all your looking for then sure, I could care less if that was account bound.

Here’s the reality:

Obscure One.4357:

The Official Answer: From Arena Net Themselves

“The goal for this system is to ensure that players always have something to constantly work towards. We want each character to have a unique experience in WvW, so World Ranks and WXP are all character-based values rather than account-based. We believe that in the long run, this will actually help incentivize players to experiment with various different ability builds for each character. It also creates a long term goal for players of multiple characters, as they can strive to rank up multiple characters to help show off their dedication to WvW.”

The reality is it removes any incentive to play a different character for a myriad of reasons but the two greatest are:

1: If I play my alt, I do not display the rank of my main, and it is a rank that only enemies can see. This negates the design goal of an ability to “show off” my “dedication to WvW.”

2: If I play my alt I must progress through the trait lines all over again. There is not a limitation to the number of trait lines I can have, so ultimately the goal is just to gain the best ones first and then, “in the long run” obtain them all. This negates the design goal of “experiment with various different ability builds for each character.” as every player is running on the notion that they will just have to get them all on a long enough time line.

The Actual Answer: Arena Net utterly failed to achieve even a remote fraction of their goals with the design of WxP, Traits, and Ranking, and persist to ignore the community on the subject, who have time and time again called for this system to be account bound.

And here’s what I want:

Obscure One.4357:

-snip-

Here’s your fix:

Item 1 Segregate Ranking from the leveling progression. You can still be a “General” at rank 1, because that has nothing to do with character progression and everything to do with being recognized for your dedication to the game mode.

Item 2 Rank badges relative to your rank are displayed next to your nameplate much in the same way World Completion badges are displayed.

Item 3 Create an archetype system in WxP traits that essentially mean you have a WvW specific class. You take groups of traits. You lump them together. You allow a character to have access to just one of these lumps and presto, you have a reason to level an alt. So now you can have a “Defender” archetype that specializes in repairing walls, cannons, burning oil, mortars, and trebs for that super slow Guardian build you have that can take a beating all day long, but couldn’t chase down a wounded one legged chicken. He’ll eventually hit a cap when he maxes out his available trait lines…trait lines that the development team can add if they’d like to give this “Defender” archetype something more to do. But ultimately his time can still be spent playing how he wants with this “Defender” archetype, continuing to rank up for prestige, or he can boot up his Elementalist and it’s “Assaulter” archetype with trait lines for arrow carts, catapults, ballistas, and Siege Golems (we all know this line is coming) , and level his way through that without neglecting his progression in his prestige rank.

I know this will work, because it’s the exact model being used by extremely successful multi-player competitive “PvP” games, that lack the advantage of the persistent environments of MMO’s, yet keep people happily playing the same content over, and over, and over, and over, and over.

Should about cover it.

World Rank should be account bound. WxP should remain character based. The trait system needs serious reworking to encourage the multi-build concept they were going for.

When you log into sPvP with an Elementalist you just made you don’t start back at rank 1 and have to unlock everything you already unlocked with your rank 50 Guardian, because that would be stupid, tedious, and largely not fun. That is however exactly how the WxP system functions, and this is a very poor design choice.

As it stands, the system is flat out stupid as a character based system. Don’t get me wrong, I want it to be character based, but I also want it to not be &$#@ing stupid and actually create a sense of character progression.