Guild Wars 2

This should simply be analogous to dungeons. Easy mode dungeons aren’t done for loot, so I don’t think easy mode raids should be either. It’s a story thing.

Some people enjoy the sound of their own voice .. or their fingers typing I guess.

None of the points the OP has presented can be absolutely attributed to the fact that Rev is OP. I’m more apt to think that it conscious strategy that these pro players played something that people aren’t as familiar with to throw off the other teams. #switchhitter

It’s always funny to see what little tidbits people will grasp onto to justify changing something they don’t like. Pros stacking a profession … that’s a new one. /puts in back pocket.

OK thread owner … Rev’s are OPed because they were stacked by pros in a tournament? Fine … what do you suggest get changed? Obviously you have many pages of ideas that are going to be easier to debate than arguing with you about some matter of opinion … WHAT YOU GOT?

maddoctor.2738:

I thought the point was so you can experience the story of the Raid, not get the rewards “easy mode”

I support this kind of easymode; Just like the first time you do a dungeon to experience the story, but the rewards were crap. THAT I can agree with.

We aren’t blind, we just understand that most of the game can be done wearing exotic gear, successfully and even competitively. Any grind impose on ourselves is because we want better, not because we need better.

You seemed to have missed all the threads were people already debunked everything you said. Grinding is a self-imposed, player-perception issue.

TexZero.7910:

Obtena.7952:

Personally, I think the argument isn’t to make an easy mode … it’s to have a nightmare mode; let’s acknowledge who these raids are targeted for.

That’s what the achievements are for. They add artificial difficulty and breed new strategies for the encounter.

Not looking for artificial difficulty just to get and achievement, no less than we are talking about making it artificially easier to get the same loot as the hard version. I’m talking about real difficulty to get tangible stuff, like loot. either more of it, higher chance or better.

Unlike Core, the events and meta in HoT DO prepare you for many of the mechanics in raids, so I think the easymode raid is rather pointless.

You might want to consider the difference in difficulty between HoT and Core GW2 if you plan to run in both zones. I won’t argue with people that tell you to run whatever you want because it’s openworld but there are most specialized and optimal builds for each of those areas, simply because the mobs like to do significantly more nasty things to you in HoT.

Core is easy enough and most of the things people have mentioned will work well; basically, all out DPS, however you can get it. HoT is a different consideration and if you like want a safe build that does reasonable damage that is fairly easy to manage, you may want to consider a full skill bar of minions and a condition-heavy build with Scepter/Dagger. One of the few builds I can solo champs at HP’s with.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRArY4djM0QTN2VDu1A7NOCGq5MsDrbMBCgIQeCpQJA-ThTAABVr+T0nAQ/QP7PMjGEoNDghSwX0QQxREgJlGKcwAew0gYKxA4BActyAA-e

Personally, I think the argument isn’t to make an easy mode … it’s to have a nightmare mode; let’s acknowledge who these raids are targeted for.

Keep seeing the ’dungeons rewardss nerfed argument" …

What is a reasonable amount of gold you can earn from doing a single fast path in a dungeon like CoF now, including selling the loot?

For comparison, just casual running around farming Malchor’s leap (no events, just killing trash and gathering), I can net average 3-4G per hour; more when lucky with rares.

Exactly .. it’s very disingenuous to claim that Anet didn’t ‘deliver’ on living world because there are events/content that repeats itself. If anything, Anet is more apt to change their open world more than any other game I’ve played; How many zones have been affected over the last three years because of LS? Quite a few actually. That qualifies to me as ‘living world’, at least to within is was reasonable with finite resources and definitely moreso than any other developer I’ve seen has done.

Yes they do, and if you’re lucky there tends to be an Ori or Orrian Tree nearby as well.

Jaymee.1560:

Miss Lana Too.5794:

Bottom line is if you’re enjoying it, keep doing it. It may not be good gold to someone else, but if it’s good gold to you – and you enjoy it – then do it. Don’t look for justification for your gameplay from other people.

Not so much that I am looking for any justification, I was just wondering if the time it took me to do all that was… reasonable or… am I slowpoke, LOL

(P.S., I have 24 character, my hat off to you, my friend, I don’t think I could babysit 45 characters… not unless I can claim them as dependents on my taxes…)

I’m going to suggest that it doesn’t, at least not for all 24 characters. Running around is time lost making money for a farmer. My recommendation:

1. Camp the your preferred farming spot with all but X characters
2. Optimize those X characters for running around and gathering

X depends on how often your camping spot refreshes. For example, I have 8 characters camping elder wood right now, I have 2 reserved for running around and doing other things. 8 characters, farming minimum of 15 wood each every hour @ 2 silver .. takes about 5-8 minutes. Then whatever else you get from doing stuff on the 2 others.

Astralporing.1957:

Obtena.7952:

I don’t know what you’re talking now. They will what? Tell their shareholders? Not sure you have noticed but … HoT has been out for 6 months. The shareholders already know.

And Colin leaves now, and Mike promises to tone down the “hardcoreness” of HoT open world (and makes a lot of effort to persuade people that raids are just a sideshow, even when they clearly aren’t).
Accident? Perhaps…

Maybe, but that’s not what I was discussing with the poster. Accident or not, Anet DID tell people HoT was going to be a challenge and it was not a secret to anyone or some unexpected change like the poster was trying to imply; not to players and not to shareholders either.

eldrin.6471:

Obtena.7952:

eldrin.6471:

People are not happy because they did not get what they thought they paid for.The fact that anet did a switcheroonie makes no difference to the outcome.lets see them explain to the shareholders that they got rid of there long term profitable customers in exchange for skilled players.

They don’t have to … shareholders already know and approved Anet’s approach to HoT; anyone implying that shareholders weren’t aware simply doesn’t understand how that business relationship works. People got exactly what they were TOLD they were paying for in HoT and the same with Core. They aren’t the same thing but there wasn’t any switcheroo; we were told it was going to be different, and it was.

bullkitten. and lets see what happens when profits go down as they sure as hell will.
Anet have forgotten who there own player base is.Share holders dont get involved in business decisions,they want profit nothing less.And i think anets bad choices just cost them money.

I don’t know what you’re talking now. They will what? Tell their shareholders? Not sure you have noticed but … HoT has been out for 6 months. The shareholders already know. Like I said; anyone who questions if the shareholders are aware simply has no understanding of how that business relationship works.

eldrin.6471:

People are not happy because they did not get what they thought they paid for.The fact that anet did a switcheroonie makes no difference to the outcome.lets see them explain to the shareholders that they got rid of there long term profitable customers in exchange for skilled players.

They don’t have to … shareholders already know and approved Anet’s approach to HoT; anyone implying that shareholders weren’t aware simply doesn’t understand how that business relationship works. People got exactly what they were TOLD they were paying for in HoT and the same with Core. They aren’t the same thing but there wasn’t any switcheroo; we were told it was going to be different, and it was.

Farming flax is fun, but elder wood is high profit, especially if you can log in more than once a day.

It’s hard to say if you’re taking too long or not without knowing your route, if you gather and kill mobs on the way to the flax, etc…

Personally, the value of the farming is significantly diminished if you are running to your target farming location every day because there is no value add for a farmer if you are spending alot of time running. I have a army of farmers as well … I keep all but three of them at the location; I run around with the other three.

For flax, it’s very easy to camp the VB location with your army permanently, for elder wood, the location in Malchor’s Leap. There are other reasonable farms, but require a little more exploring.

eldrin.6471:

2 million people bought guild wars 2 because it wasn’t hard core.Then three years latter after they have taken our money and in some cases thousand of hours of time they decide to change the nature of the product.Does not take a genius to work out why a lot of people are not happy with a net at the moment.

People aren’t happy because people didn’t pay attention to Anet telling them that HoT was going to be different than Core. Let’s be responsible adults here and accept the fact that THEY screwed up for not setting their expectations based on what they were TOLD, not what they invented in their own head.

eldrin.6471:

At launch guild wars 2 sold two million copy and it had no raids and was advertised as
unique in the genre.not surprising that a lot of players are now disappointed that with the addition of raids they are locked out of content and gear.This is not what they paid for.

It is what they paid for when they got HoT. Don’t try to pretent HoT attempts to repeat the things that Core was delivering.

Ragnarox.9601:

Malediktus.9250:

Ragnarox.9601:

He’s right, we need to get legendary armor by other means than raids, like wvw or pvp. Gated behind raids is just bad, what would you think if Twilight was gated behind 100 lv fractals 2000 world bosses and 100,000 events done.

Doing raids is not unrealistic. They are easier than the average raid I saw in other games. People beat them in the first days after release.

Organized groups beat them easily, what about lfg sistem?

What are you saying? It’s unreasonable to be organized with people to get BiS gear? Getting it should be easy enough for random unorganized people to get it?

This isn’t any different than dungeons, yet for some reason, people didn’t QQ that tokens were locked behind dungeons and that only organized groups beat those easily.

Let’s cut the nonsense … people just want awesome loot as easy as they can get it. Well, since raids are just more complex dungeon content, I would say that’s about as easy as you’re going to get.

Buran.3796:

Obtena.7952:

Well, for my perspective, dominating as a bunker holder does not make the class a top tier PVP class.

So being the best bunker in game and one of the best team support classes for two years in a game in which the outcome of the matches are determined by the team which controls the points is not being top tier pvp, uh?

Well, that’s a good starting point for people to value how relevant your opinion about PvP in general and Guardians in particular are.

I was thinking the same thing about your opinion when you said how a class is top tier in PVP because it does exactly ONE thing really good.

That didn’t mean this class was ever top tier; it means it was pigeonholed to a single role because it’s the only thing it could do well. It also meant that it was reliant on a very specific way to win PVP games and had no flexibility to adapt to other strategies. Yeah, top tier indeed. GG.

“Hey guys, they are beating our brains out”
“Oh don’t worry, I will just stand here and guard point … oh and if you want amazing support goodness, just come camp point with me”

Awesome.

In fact, I think that what you see happening in game is exactly why Guardians were never top tier in PVP … the meta shifts a bit and now that one thing we did well, we don’t do so well anymore. Further to that, since we don’t do anything else really well, now you see people generally thinking Guardians are that great.

So no, it was never top tier … it simply fit the meta really well that allowed it to do one thing really well.

Furajir.3815:

Now I’m just kittened that I’m denied access because I can’t go full neckbeard status for pve in a game I was told I wouldn’t have to raid in to get the best gear.

Bleh

Oh there we go, made up stuff … you aren’t denied access to anything and I don’t recall Anet EVER saying you won’t have to raid to get BiS gear. Maybe educate yourself before ranting on the forums.

DGraves.3720:

Obtena.7952:

DGraves.3720:

How is this at all useful?

This would change the way I think about playing Guardian … so I would say that’s pretty useful.

What exactly would you change? Just curious.

Not using Runes of the Traveller … always.

Well, for my perspective, dominating as a bunker holder does not make the class a top tier PVP class. Try to do anything else with it and it was quite the opposite case for most of the last 3 years.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think Guardians have benefited from many changes in PVP over the history of GW2 but I think the OP is exaggerating a little; Guardians haven’t fallen as far from whatever level they have been as the OP would like to think.

DGraves.3720:

How is this at all useful?

This would change the way I think about playing Guardian … so I would say that’s pretty useful.

Even with the bad formatting, I still can’t understand why the OP thinks it’s completely unreasonable to step part way into a running story and not know what’s happening.

Phy.2913:

Throw spells and hit stuff while running from dead person to dead person. Getting participation credit takes minimal effort, you would need to actively ignore the event to not get credit.

Not only that, but actively ignore it for quite a few minutes as well.

Sorry OP, it’s not that HoT discourages you from helping others, it’s that HoT encourages you to be active with the event.

One of the better sets IMO. As soon as I seen it, I wanted them.

Maybe my glasses have never been rose coloured but I don’t really recall a time when Guardians were ever considered top tier in PVP. To me, OP is simply describing instances (in a biased way) that I would call balanced, which is what Guardian has always been.

Meh, you want Necros to play a certain way and they don’t. Not much to say here; I do know it’s not likely to change to the way you want after 3.5 years since release. There are some really cool mechanics from other games I’ve played that I miss as well. No reason to pine for them in GW2 though.

Jordo.5913:

Deedrick.4372:

Were in for a stunning amount of QQ, can’t you just jump on one of the other 6 million threads that complain about raids instead of creating a new one. Seriously some people like raids others hate them and enough are indifferent. Just let it go and wait, more stuff is coming, this is not the last patch ever going to be released by anet.

I don’t hate raids. I actually like them being in the game.

I don’t like them affecting other content being released.

I can’t understand why you wouldn’t make content that 99% of your player base would enjoy, but instead make your priority what 1% of your player base enjoys, and make the 99% wait a year for more content.

LWS3 should be the priority, and then let raid wings have the delayed release.

You speak with quite a bit of authority about the statistics behind who likes what … considering you don’t have the slightest shred of data to support it. Well done.

In addition, we already know that the people working on the raids aren’t the same people working on the LS .. so if you have no reason to fear for raids affecting other content being released.

There is no ‘LS3 is a the priority over raids’ because they are being worked on simultaneously, each with their own resources. That statement shows you aren’t informed.

Astralporing.1957:

Obtena.7952:

Astralporing.1957:

Khisanth.2948:

Ever?

Does that include the period before blooming passion flowers were added?

Well, the original passion flower drop rates were about the same (and no, there was no gathering cap at the very beginning, that came later). Of course, that situation has been eventually recognized as a problem and blooming passiflora nodes were added.
We can only hope it will not take them as long in this case (though it’s already taking them too long)

Obtena.7952:

I guess Anet disagrees with you, which is fundamental here; they have created the game and the TP in a way that doesn’t allow them to control the price for specific mats.

On the contrary, they have been doing that since the beginning of the game. Things like changing droprates of specific materials, adjusting crafting recipes, or adding new ones are exactly that – attempts to influence prices of specific goods.

This discussion has been had many times before; Prices dictated by market. Anet will step in as needed changing material availability to impact runaway or slumping prices; that is not price control. Prices are not controlled in the sense that Anet steps in and says “The price for this mat is X”. That’s what I’m talking about in the quote you and others decided to argue with me about.

You mean, that they don’t set the prices directly, and this is true, but on the other hand it is also true that they are perfectly willing and capable of controlling them indirectly. And they have been doing this since beginning of the game.

Yup, and to be clear, that’s what is meant (and implied when knowledgeable people talk about these things) when I said Anet doesn’t control the prices … the FIRST time I said it.

Now, if I what I read recently is true, and there is only 5 pearls on the TP, the next question would be what are the consumption rates for these. I’m totally for Anet reviewing their sources on these kinds of mats … as long as it makes sense to do so. If they are moving at the rate of 10 per day for example, 5 on the TP isn’t enough to supply the market. If they were moving at a rate of 1 per week, 5 on the TP isn’t that big a deal.

Astralporing.1957:

Khisanth.2948:

Ever?

Does that include the period before blooming passion flowers were added?

Well, the original passion flower drop rates were about the same (and no, there was no gathering cap at the very beginning, that came later). Of course, that situation has been eventually recognized as a problem and blooming passiflora nodes were added.
We can only hope it will not take them as long in this case (though it’s already taking them too long)

Obtena.7952:

I guess Anet disagrees with you, which is fundamental here; they have created the game and the TP in a way that doesn’t allow them to control the price for specific mats.

On the contrary, they have been doing that since the beginning of the game. Things like changing droprates of specific materials, adjusting crafting recipes, or adding new ones are exactly that – attempts to influence prices of specific goods.

This discussion has been had many times before; Prices dictated by market. Anet will step in as needed changing material availability to impact runaway or slumping prices; that is not price control. Prices are not controlled in the sense that Anet steps in and says “The price for this mat is X”. That’s what I’m talking about in the quote you and others decided to argue with me about.

\Don’t confuse control of the FLOW of mats for the control of the PRICE of mats. Two different things.

IndigoSundown.5419:

HoT is the game going forward. Access to LS3 relies on HoT ownership. Rewards players had paid for access to were removed and put behind the HoT pay wall. That’s a pretty strong marketing push to get everyone to buy. I find it hard to believe ANet would not have liked to sell it to everyone who plays. But they didn’t make HoT content for everyone who plays. You’re free to think that’s not a flaw. I don’t think that those who are feeling disenfranchised would agree, though.

Maybe, but that’s nothing to do with the HoT content being too hard from what I can see. For the record though, I think there isn’t anything wrong with that model. LS32 is part of HoT and I don’t think anyone can complain about not getting access to content that isn’t free if they didn’t pay. Again, it’s a departure from their old model? Not really. You paid for Core, you got LS1 and 2. You paid for HoT, you get LS3.

No, I really don’t see it … Anet didn’t ‘mismarket’ the game. In fact, they marketed HoT as challenging content compared to Core. I’m not sure what you are trying to imply here but that’s not lying and I don’t see how someone could misunderstand that at all. Core was a joke … if core convinced a person they were ‘really good’, they were just deluding themselves to think HoT was something they could handle. That’s not flawed marketing, that’s just bad players thinking they are good.

You might think that putting an expansion out at that difficulty level was a mistake given the players the core game appeals to you; if so, I’m inclined to agree with you. That’s not the discussion here and we are way past that. Bottomline is that Anet warned people; if they didn’t listen or convinced themselves otherwise, that’s the players at fault there.

Furthermore, I still don’t see where people get off denying themselves the option of roaming with a group, teaming, asking for help … in an MMO of all places. Yes, yes, we know … some people don’t feel it’s appropriate to have multi player content that is hard to solo or not at all soloable in MMO’s. That’s just unreasonable.

I don’t even understand how someone compares the two games; other than the lore itself, aren’t they completely different in terms of play? My understanding is that GW1 is just a single player game where you just happen to have other players in the same world. Can you even team up to do stuff?

Regardless, I find discussions that refer to value for money ridiculous … MMO’s are cheapest form of entertainment you can get, especially non-sub ones like GW2. Your investment is typically PENNIES an hour.

Good thing Anet never gave us the impression that HoT was easy to solo OW … they told us otherwise as a matter of fact. Maybe players should be aligning their expectations to what they have been told … and at this point can read on the forums from other players experiences with ‘hard’ HoT content instead of just making really kittenumptions, especially after 6 months HoT was released.

Daroon.1736:

Pifil.5193:

Blude.6812:

Ayrilana.1396:

Not this again. Nothing has been shown to prove that HoT was a failure.

Or to prove in anyway it was a success for that matter.

So it’s all pointless speculation? I agree.

No speculation, you just need to be bothered to look at the numbers and then posses some capacity to interpret them.

No one has enough information to use their ‘capacity’ to interpret those numbers as a HoT failure. There are many factors that contribute to the financials.

qbalrog.8017:

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Nobody cares…

If you like the game play it. If you do not, then go do something else.

I care. I don’t want to spend money on a game that is dying. I’d like it to have a horizon of at last 18 months.

I think their results were not catastrophic but were weaker than desired. Thus the AMA and staff changes. Reading between the lines: the CEO has been ordered to fix the problem. As everything he said is something I’d like to see fixed, I’m all for it. I have hopes they will sort this out soon enough.

Good think GW2 costs you nothing to play it then. We might have a crisis if that weren’t the case. People who do their armchair analysis forget this has a significant impact on how everything is done in GW2. Applying typical logic from sub-based games to a purchase-based game simply doesn’t work.

While I find that difficulty increases as you progress through the maps, I don’t find that’s an unreasonable approach because very little of the content is intended to be soloed in the first place. That wasn’t the intention, it’s reflected in the design and it is demonstrated by the interaction with players. Players have options to deal with this. Clearly, the OP has excluded himself from many of those options; that is not a game design problem. That’s a player created issue.

I don’t see people complaining you can’t solo raids … same thing. Raids weren’t designed that way and neither was OW HoT events and even some roaming mobs, unless you’re REALLY clever or willing to go to extremes to deal with those instances.

I hardly even use my mouse. I have movement on WASD and have my weapon skills and F keys assigned to my number pad. I even get lazier; I use the automatic ground target on current target. Almost any class can be used like this, though the fewer F keys, the better (I think I can’t assign F5 to the num pad)

Otherwise, pet classes are ideal, I think Necro being the best to avoid having to move and fight at the same time.

Daroon.1736:

Obtena.7952:

There is only damage because players assume something, not because Anet doesn’t act.

Not communicating an awareness of the issue early on, is the problem.

This leads to frustration, anger and gives the (ever growing) impression that the dev’s either don’t care or are incompetent.

I don’t think communicating an awareness of this issue early on would have prevented ANY of those things. If anything, there would still be those things AND some other assumed expectation for a fix in some likely highly unreasonable timeline.

I suspect we didn’t hear about it until now because they didn’t have any fixes to deal with it until now, so I would say this communication from Anet dev team on this issue is quite timely.

There is only damage because players assume something, not because Anet doesn’t act.

SproutJr.4802:

Great, I’m forced to play something I don’t want to because I don’t have an alternative for sustained dps. I don’t mind playing for the group, but it is silly that the best sustained dps just consists of pressing 1.

No one is forcing you to do anything … just do what you like. Just don’t join any meta only PUGs for dungeons … like those even exist anymore.

Frankly, a ‘1’ rotation is quite nice from my perspective; let’s you focus on what you need to do.

General Health.9678:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

The Trading Post is so dynamic, that it’s been proven next to impossible for any one person or group of people to effectively manipulate anything.

I’ve seen this said in every game I’ve ever played and then someone reveals that actually they were part of a cartel doing just this thing and that they’ve accumulated enough money to be able to buy the whole auction house.

Next to impossible is meaningless.
Proving something to be next to impossible is therefore even less meaningful.

That has yet to happen in GW2. In addition, we know Anet adjusts to ensure for a balanced economy. You guys want change for change’s sake.

This might not be where your thinking is now but …

Ascended armor can be transferred so you might want to think about alts you might have that could benefit from whatever stat set you decide to make. Personally, I would go with zerkers because you just can’t go wrong with a zerk build on any profession.

Burtnik.5218:

Burtnik.5218:

QQ in 3…2….1… bc teams runs 2 revs /shrug

I love to be right ;D

Theres only 1 thing that has to be toned down and its herald. They also played old comp (shield revs lmao) and eles carried them like a princess.

But its okay, lets base balance around “pro league” played by kids <cough>

My thoughts exactly when people QQ about Guardians on the opposite of the spectrum, but that’s a different can of worms. Some is always best, someone is always worst. Crys like the OP has doesn’t seem to recognize this.

Not sure I understand the problem, nor the solution. Power builds benefit from weapons, everything else only from the base stats? OK, that’s not really fair, but it’s a problem? I wouldn’t go that far.

Even if it is, adding heal and condition increases only benefits heals and condition builds. So what about tank builds or evades or … I mean, the list doesn’t end. You can’t cater to EVERY kind of build so no solution is fair. Even if you go back and load Ascended with more base stats and remove the weapon damage increase, it’s still not fair if I want to run a COND, power, heal because that combo doesn’t exist.

There is more of an issue with infusions than there is with Ascended gear. A huge opportunity is lost there to allow meaningful fine tuning to a build.

They have to patch sometime. With the staggered metas, it’s unlikely they can find a time to patch when they don’t interrupt one.

Milkshake.4038:

Jaxom.7310:

thats not price manipulation, its just like any market investment.

someone saw that there was about 50k or 500k i don’t remember leathers at like 1.55s. thats the last “price wall” next closest is like 5k selling at 5s, then the supply really drops and prices go up quick.

so someone saw this opportunity, spent the up front golds, and is preparing for the prices to go up to 5s and beyond. then they’ll start putting them back on the market at the prices that are more appropriate for how much leather everyone is buying these days.

they will likely be rewarded for their investment.

It is a really risky investment, putting 50k gold into 1 item. My biggest problem with this speculation is that people have stacks of thick leather in their banks, and it is really easy to farm them. But who knows?

I had many stacks and I blew through them. I’m not sure what your comparison is but they are not easy to farm at all since there is no node for them.

Unless I’m reading the chart wrong, the ‘manipulation’ failed spectacularly.

I don’t know about cheap, but it’s definitely SLOW. I guess if poison is cheap, I will be glad to have the luxury editions of ‘player killing’ effects.