Yes PVE – why I wasn’t running Scrapper already? Inventions makes this build easy mode in HoT.
I ran this for a bit (Imagine Applied Force traited)
It feels quite satisfying running around with permanent 25 Might stacks and Stability, with frequent proc’ing of Swiftness, Quickness, Fury and Vigor
I had to drop Inventions, so I lose some serious sustain. Ultimately, it’s a quick swap between full offense and tanky. I know people crap on camping FT. Don’t care.
That’s quite a bit of sensational nonsense to be frank. We get you don’t like the changes. Just say so and be done with it. In fact you are right. Guardian isn’t great at anything; ever think that’s Anet’s intention?
In addition, nothing has changed with relation to power vs. condi Guardian. Power is still better in MOST circumstances. If you want to QQ, at least use some truth to do it.
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This trait is a problem … can’t decide what current traitline I should lose in my FT build.
‘casual’ friendly means casuals are not excluded because of scheduling, not that it takes longer to do things – that’s obvious.
This is /thread. It might be obvious but even what’s obvious eludes many people.
Don’t confuse ‘dull’ with ‘ineffective’. No, the changes aren’t sexy but most are buffs and are to some skills that were underused. Not sure what you call that but I call it balancing.
One extra second of retaliation on Wrathful Spirit is ineffective unless they fundamentally change the way retal works. 60 extra toughness on Stalwart Defender is ineffective unless they fundamentally change the way toughness works. Most of these changes ineffective, especially the ones that were on less-used options. It is an attempt at balancing, but not a very good one.
You can debate the specific details if you like since we all know Anet is conservative with their balancing efforts. These ARE improvements to underused skills, whether you deem them ineffective or not. Sure glad I’m not maining a class on the other end of the spectrum … effective nerfs.
And I thought I saw some top-notch apologists on Blizzard forums.
I should send them here to get lessons from you on how to try and spin ridiculous changes into something good.
Wwe have seen Anet make these conservative balance changes for 3 years now … why would anyone think this would be any different? It’s not about making apologies, it’s about being realistic.
None of those changes make me rethink my builds. Almost no change ever does make me rethink my builds because I find Anet is too conservative with their changes to make me consider it and also, the way traits are integrated into the game don’t help either.
Don’t confuse ‘dull’ with ‘ineffective’. No, the changes aren’t sexy but most are buffs and are to some skills that were underused. Not sure what you call that but I call it balancing.
One extra second of retaliation on Wrathful Spirit is ineffective unless they fundamentally change the way retal works. 60 extra toughness on Stalwart Defender is ineffective unless they fundamentally change the way toughness works. Most of these changes ineffective, especially the ones that were on less-used options. It is an attempt at balancing, but not a very good one.
You can debate the specific details if you like since we all know Anet is conservative with their balancing efforts. These ARE improvements to underused skills, whether you deem them ineffective or not. Sure glad I’m not maining a class on the other end of the spectrum … effective nerfs.
In fact, some of the changes have IMPROVED some aspects of builds I use on a regular basis. Yes, go ahead and chastise me because I don’t worship the meta for all PVE now.
Seems to me if a person wants to compare two classes (as useless an exercise as that may be), then they should have some exceptional knowledge of each one.
I can show you even lower damage on Guardian … by just standing there doing nothing. That doesn’t prove Guardians are a low-damage class.
? Viper warrior is broken, so Guardians are going to rush out and equip viper armor?
Maybe people should keep the warrior QQ in the warrior forum?
Don’t confuse ‘dull’ with ‘ineffective’. No, the changes aren’t sexy but most are buffs and are to some skills that were underused. Not sure what you call that but I call it balancing.
Sounds like an amazing opportunity to make a guild that has the same interests you do OP
That I can agree with … they could have made the difficulty progressive as a player went through HoT, but that would have probably made it a much larger task to create it.
What is even the point of this thread? If you have convinced yourself that Guardian doesn’t do enough damage for your tastes, don’t play it. Have enough sense to stop at that.
HoT is easily possible to “solo” – in the sense you can run around and progress. Even with a staff elementalist. But realize you will have to join in for the meta events. You don’t have to party up for them until you hit Dragon’s Stand — but then you will be invited to party to do the big runs. As for HoT personal story you can do that solo right up to the very end…where for most players you will need help.
Run around with zerg, mb? Or run from one personal instance to another?
Try to kill some veterans near 1st WP in Auric Basin solo.
I just tried with my GS\Hammer warrior. You know, “full ascended” kind of warrior. 1.5k of 8k hours played by this one, 20k AP, TA and Lupi solo and other pathos… And what do you think?
I can’t. Just can’t kill this toad on the beetle. Or two frogs on the bridge. I wonder what should I do. “Special build for veterans”? But why the hell I need it? I’ll better just glide down and join any zerg.
Hardcore is good and wonderful of course. But what I see is absolute nonsense.So I realy want to see how you will deal with some veterans with your staff ele, or 3 pocket raptors packs near maguuma shallows
So you don’t think it’s reasonable to change your build because of harder content, even though you can’t kill things? HoT is not nonsense because you don’t feel you should adapt to the difficulty. Appeals to your AP and hours played only go to show that you have gotten used to the mind numbly easy content Core GW2 has given over the last 3 years.
Frankly, a staff ele has everything they need to kill pocket raptors and veterans. Don’t believe for a second that the thousands of hours you have and AP points has shown you anything you need to know how to play your class because it hasn’t.
Yes, I think so. I believe that solo Lupi – a hard content worthy of special build. Not some veteran mob. Do you know why? Because from Lupi or TA I’ll get a decent reward. From veteran I do not get anything.
May be you can explain me why would anyone do a special build to solo veteran, when it’s much better, easier and more profitable just to join the zerg?
Therefore, no one beats these veterans. That’s why I do not consider this content “harder”. Solo players do not need it. Useless. Content that is so hart that it is impassable solo gives no reasons to solo it and adapt to it. And this is nonsense.And anyway: in the words everyone strong and skillful. So maybe you will show me how will you solo this http://puu.sh/mIW7z/e9072263df.jpg guy with ele or war? Or this http://puu.sh/mIWdc/73ed34ee42.jpg two?
I already told you how to 2 posts up. If i can do it with my warrior in exotics filled with ruby orbs and a GS that doesn’t even have force you can do it with your gear.
You don’t need any “special build”. But not changing skills or weapons depending on the situation is just gimping yourself. There are so many skills to choose from that were all but worthless in central Tyria that are actually useful now.
Edit: You know what, here you go vids of me soloing those mobs. Sorry for the potato quality.
Exactly … so is this a case of poster can’t or not willing to? We know the answer. The fact is that people have been tricked into thinking they are prepared for the challenges they face in HoT because of all the ‘hard things’ they did in core for the thousands of hours played. Those hours and content in Core mean nothing.
HoT is easily possible to “solo” – in the sense you can run around and progress. Even with a staff elementalist. But realize you will have to join in for the meta events. You don’t have to party up for them until you hit Dragon’s Stand — but then you will be invited to party to do the big runs. As for HoT personal story you can do that solo right up to the very end…where for most players you will need help.
Run around with zerg, mb? Or run from one personal instance to another?
Try to kill some veterans near 1st WP in Auric Basin solo.
I just tried with my GS\Hammer warrior. You know, “full ascended” kind of warrior. 1.5k of 8k hours played by this one, 20k AP, TA and Lupi solo and other pathos… And what do you think?
I can’t. Just can’t kill this toad on the beetle. Or two frogs on the bridge. I wonder what should I do. “Special build for veterans”? But why the hell I need it? I’ll better just glide down and join any zerg.
Hardcore is good and wonderful of course. But what I see is absolute nonsense.So I realy want to see how you will deal with some veterans with your staff ele, or 3 pocket raptors packs near maguuma shallows
So you don’t think it’s reasonable to change your build because of harder content, even though you can’t kill things? HoT is not nonsense because you don’t feel you should adapt to the difficulty. Appeals to your AP and hours played only go to show that you have gotten used to the mind numbly easy content Core GW2 has given over the last 3 years.
Frankly, a staff ele has everything they need to kill pocket raptors and veterans. Don’t believe for a second that the thousands of hours you have and AP points has shown you anything you need to know how to play your class because it hasn’t.
Just a simple question … if you are casual, why do you need Commander’s armor specifically?
Sure, it might not be casual friendly, I agree. But it’s not really a concern is it?
Jeez, you guys aren’t very funny, or overly sensitive, not sure which yet.
Oh noes … the Meta police are coming! There is a rumor no one should be able to finish the raid without 99% conformance rating to meta.
Seriusly anet, all the gold sellers have the same achievement points and you cannot block those guys???? There is someone work on it? because if it is, this “someone” is doing a bad job, relocate this “someone” to another job plz.
Att,
And you’re solution is? or you just think you have all this figured out and ?
Personally, I think your assumption that Anet does not take GREAT efforts to stop gold selling is extremely naive, considering a significant portion, if not ALL their revenues are made by selling gems.
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Prices from Forged Precursors has not equalized to the cost of crafting yet. It will be a while before that happens, if it does. It’s cheaper to buy off TP ATM.
It matters quite a bit more than people tend to give it credit for; the professions in this game are not different in name only. Sure they can all do similar things, but they do them in ways that make them feel different. Their might not be specific ‘roles’ in the traditional MMO sense, but lacking those roles doesn’t result in any profession feeling like any other.
That difference is way more important to a game than balance between classes; that’s why Developers balance TO the concept when they have to.
I wouldn’t mind titles given to people who achieve hard content. But unique skins or the only way to get a specific class of armor…that I do mind. Raids are too hard to lock stuff like that behind.
Dungeons were hard too. This wing is already pugable. By the time legendary armor will be out pugs will speedclear wing 1 and will be comfortable in wing 2.
Dungeons were too hard? lol Okay then.
Check old threads in dungeon forum if you were not playing around release.
That’s not really a fair comparison … EVERY can be hard around release, even OW events. The point being made there is alternative approaches to obtaining gear, not easier or harder ones.
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It’s funny how an invalid reason for balance is prevalent in every MMO I’ve ever experienced. The whole argument is about if it’s valid reason or not is moot really and doesn’t really accomplish anything … Anet doesn’t seem to have gotten that memo and do it anyways.
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Right, just like I made up the whole thing about Anet saying too bursty and disruptive too? Humbug or not, balancing to class concept is just as, if not more valid reason to balance than between-class equalization is. Repeat it all you like, it’s widespread and relevant in any MMO.
I certainly don’t consider my comment backhanded, I consider it fairly straightforward. All your talk of “class concept” and “Anet dev’s vision” is vaporous. It doesn’t contribute to predicting the state of the guardian post-patch.
That’s an interesting stance considering that ALL discussion about changes we don’t even have details about is even more vaporous and contributes even LESS to predicting the state of a Guardian post-patch than simply waiting to see what the result will be and keeping a level headed approach to the changes.
I’m also amused that you continue to equate the reason I suspect Anet making the changes as “because they want to”. Not sure how you get that from “because of the class concept”. That’s certainly not due to anything on my side of the discussion. Maybe you want to continue to diminish that argument because you have no way to dispute it or even believe it’s not true /shrug
Even if you exclude our little side bar here, I don’t see posts in this thread that are all that rational. These aren’t discussions and if they are, I didn’t see you contributing to them in any more of a significant way than you are accusing me of doing.
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I can actually, because they said it. It’s irrelevant if I think it is or is not too bursty; I don’t define the class concept, Anet does.
http://dulfy.net/2016/01/11/gw2-profession-balance-goals-for-winter-2016/
Then you are saying they just changed it because they felt like it, and you have no reasoning beyond that.
I’m saying they changed it to align to what they want the class to do, though you shouldn’t make it sound like the reason I’ve provided isn’t good enough to consider, since it is the one that actually matters.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for people talking about how they dislike change, etc… but when I see people QQing because they assume Anet is making changes that are ‘stupid’ when the reality is that those people just don’t understand things, that’s not an unreasonable place to step in and challenge that thinking by saying “hey, did you ever think ….”
Frankly, since we have hardly any details, it’s pretty presumptuous for anyone to really predict how the next round of balancing changes will affect the class. I get your not liking my line of thinking all that much and you wish what I was saying wasn’t true. Accusing me of not adding to the conversation; that’s weak backhanded attack considering how much time you have decide to spend trying to break me down.
My position is pretty strong in this thread. On top of recognizing there are other reasons to make changes beyond ‘class comparison balance’, there isn’t even enough details released from Anet to have a reasonable discussion about what the change even is in the first place.
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but it’s not elitist if the squad leader of another group doesn’t want that build/class on their team.
Guess we disagree then, especially if we already know the ability to carry a team only goes up as more meta teammates are present.
It’s not that guardians are bad. It’s that better options exist. and why not take the best? If you doing through being a PUG then you should expect to bring your best because that’s what they want.
That’s how elitist’s think. Why not take the best? Because you don’t need to in order to succeed. Even WITH ragetimers, the whole idea of the ‘ideal meta team’ falls flat on it’s face. The reality that a select few don’t want to admit and an even larger number don’t understand, is that there are LOTS of combinations of profs and skills that can make a 10 man team to beat raids.
If you have your own raid team then run whatever you want, but it’s not elitist to point out you should bring the best classes to a pug. Pugs will struggle through the bosses in the first place, a sub-optimal class will just make the struggle even harder.
I’m not sure what you mean by “Ideal meta team falls flat on its face” because it is a fact that a good team comp will deal more damage and make it through raids far easier than 10 people choosing the class they like the most.
There are not contradictions in what I’ve said. Anytime I see someone doing ‘meta-only’ team compositions, I think ‘Oh, not good enough a group to win outside of meta gaming?’. To boot, meta doesn’t allow anyone to succeed more; that’s a fallacy; it simply allows a group to CARRY others more.
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No offense, but I’m going to say Anet controls the concept of the class and what it does, not players. Besides that, Anet didn’t say it shouldn’t be bursty or disruptive at all, they just said it was TOO bursty and disruptive for them.
You can’t just say the devs think it’s too bursty and that’s that. … What basis do they have for thinking it’s too bursty?
I can actually, because they said it. It’s irrelevant if I think it is or is not too bursty; I don’t define the class concept, Anet does.
http://dulfy.net/2016/01/11/gw2-profession-balance-goals-for-winter-2016/
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Change is being made because Anet thinks DH is too bursty and disruptive; so sounds to me like the reason is alignment to class concept. Unfortunately, when people see changes they think are bad, they immediately assume they are based on balances relative to other professions. This is a kittenumption.
Overall performance can be assessed simply by past experience ingame within the class itself, under the reasonable assumption that the class is based around a concept. No reference to other classes is required in that kind of assessment. That makes a massive amount of sense if you don’t assume that balance is always relative to other classes.
Alright, then you need to understand: the class concept of the Dragonhunter is supposed to be burst and disruption so of course it’s going to have high burst and disruption relative the base class with reportedly the 2nd worst dps in the game and limited CC. Elite specs are supposed to alter the playstyle of a class enough that it warrants a different symbol (the little arrowhead instead of a healing ahnk on a shield), so it’s effectively meant to behave like a different class (more damage less support). Balancing a single class based on feel without comparison to other classes is like allocating fuel for a plane by getting a pilot who’s flown a plane, but knows nothing about the one in question, to guess how much it needs without gauges. You can’t measure the distance between two objects (guard and DH) without a third object as reference (any other class in the game). Balancing without comparison to other classes makes no sense in any context. It isn’t balance.
No offense, but I’m going to say Anet controls the concept of the class and what it does, not players. Besides that, Anet didn’t say it shouldn’t be bursty or disruptive at all, they just said it was TOO bursty and disruptive for them.
I agree with that for sure, though subjective here is irrelevant since it’s Anet’s subjectivity and they hold the levers. I for one would love to see some things happen on Guardian, but I know it won’t because of the class concept. That’s OK too because there are 8 other classes than cover these cool things I would like to play.
We shouldn’t be in denial that changes happens because of class concept though and not for bad reasons either; staying true to a concept preserves the feel of the class, which matter as much as or more than interclass balancing.
Just another example of why you don’t understand why this change is being made…..You’re expectations don’t align with theirs.
…
Overall performance of a class, even relative to others, is not determined by changing a very small number of its skills…
Alright, let’s focus on some disagreements. If I don’t understand why this change is being made, explain to me why this change is being made, and what Anet’s expectations are relative to mine. And please elaborate the “even” there. What is the overall performance of a class without relativity to others, in a game where multiple classes exist to choose from?
Change is being made because Anet thinks DH is too bursty and disruptive; so sounds to me like the reason is alignment to class concept. Unfortunately, when people see changes they think are bad, they immediately assume they are based on balances relative to other professions. This is a kittenumption.
Overall performance can be assessed simply by past experience ingame within the class itself, under the reasonable assumption that the class is based around a concept. No reference to other classes is required in that kind of assessment. That makes a massive amount of sense if you don’t assume that balance is always relative to other classes.
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Just another example of why you don’t understand why this change is being made. You can cite all the examples of DH getting ROFLstomped you like; it doesn’t really matter because that’s not why Anet is changing stuff. Anet has no aspirations to see DH hit some specific level of PVP performance with respect to other professions. You’re expectations don’t align with theirs.
What do you mean by that? Balance doesn’t exist in a vacuum. The only way DH can be too strong in terms of burst/disruption is in comparison to the other builds/classes available. So any changes they make are by comparison, and are about making the classes hit a specific level of performance. And most of their performance balance is based around PvP.
Overall performance of a class, even relative to others, is not determined by changing a very small number of its skills so to say it’s being done to target a change in performance relative to other classes is hard for me to understand. I’m also not going to assume that performance balance is based around PVP either, especially since we have seen Anet split a small number of skills in PVP to maintain PVE balance; seems to me that if they think they can maintain balance in both areas with a single change, they prefer it.
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Depends what you call viable. I don’t think changing ‘bursty and disruptive’ aspects of DH makes it not viable.
It’s not that guardians are bad. It’s that better options exist. and why not take the best? If you doing through being a PUG then you should expect to bring your best because that’s what they want.
That’s how elitist’s think. Why not take the best? Because you don’t need to in order to succeed. Even WITH ragetimers, the whole idea of the ‘ideal meta team’ falls flat on it’s face. The reality that a select few don’t want to admit and an even larger number don’t understand, is that there are LOTS of combinations of profs and skills that can make a 10 man team to beat raids.
Just another example of why you don’t understand why this change is being made. You can cite all the examples of DH getting ROFLstomped you like; it doesn’t really matter because that’s not why Anet is changing stuff. Anet has no aspirations to see DH hit some specific level of PVP performance with respect to other professions. You’re expectations don’t align with theirs.
It didn’t work for GW2 ever and I can’t challenge you on GW1 other than to say I’m doubtful it was as done as well as you imply. Even if it was, it’s an exception and it wasn’t really an MMO in the strictest terms anyways.
Regardless, that challenge is still there in GW2 and just because something balanced existed in GW1 doesn’t make it easy to do in GW2. Most MMO’s miss that mark by quite a bit, so much so that I hardly ever see devs speak of changing things to ‘balance’ across professions. Just doesn’t happen.
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Anyone that thinks PVE balance over 9 classes with hundreds of different skills is achievable, especially when those same skills and classes are used in PVE and WvW, has clearly not enough experience playing MMO’s.
Therefore, Anet doesn’t specifically balance for PVE because it’s not possible with how the game is designed. Easy.
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It’s funny because I made a thread offering to show people how to get around HoT and not a single complaining person took me up on my offer.
As I’ve said many times, and will no doubt say again, it’s better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness.
People don’t like to be told they are wrong; it’s even worse for them when you show them they are wrong. That being said, there was an immense satisfaction for me to get Map completion done on VB without someone showing me so maybe people don’t want that spoiled for them.
I don’t think there is a dismissal of complaints but every reasonable person knows what the default thing to do is in an MMO when you can’t solo something. HINT: it’s an EM EM OH RPG. AH yes, one of THOSE RPG’s, where people are not only allowed, but encouraged to team up and play together, especially when content is hard, no matter where that content is.
That’s why, for me at least, arguments that HoT ruins the game and the experience for “can’t do stuff solo” type players … is nonsense. If this were MY MMO being developed, almost ALL the content would require some sort of teaming, or take a tremendously long time to complete solo. IMO, it’s one of the failures of GW2 … make OW content for scrubs, then make teaming content where they need to be carried.
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You have to admit though they did a nerf based on cries from noobs and idiots.
They barely care what hoots and snorting noises passes through these forums. They have tools that let them look at every match ever played through 171 filters and what they were seeing is what they addressed.
Yeah, exactly this …
When a crusty player decides it’s convenient to them, they say Anet listens to noobs on the forums. When a crusty player decides it’s convenient to them, they say Anet ignores people on the forums.
Um, it’s not BOTH. So no, I don’t admit that these changes are due to noobs and idiots complaining on the forums, no less than I admit that the things we ARE getting buffed are due to anyone on the forum complaining they need to be better.
I think the truth is what I’ve been saying all along … I don’t think forum talk factors very much, if at all, into any decision regarding class development, for ANY game that I have ever played at least. That’s the dev’s job, not the players.
I don’t need evidence. I just read words. The words I read regarding these upcoming changes make sense to me WITHOUT resorting to stories about being lied to or imposing my own ideas of what should be that isn’t.
You’re still stuck on this idea of ‘being OPed’. That’s not how many things are balanced. That’s why you don’t understand it. It’s EXACTLY as simply as Anet said; they want less bursty/disruption in DH; that’s going to get fixed. It’s not anything more than that; a reality that doesn’t match their concept.
Does that make sense? Do we like it? It seems to me that after playing MMO’s for a reasonable amount of time that it doesn’t seem to matter in the minds of a developer. Once you realize that, you can stop being angry about things you don’t understand.
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But from a pure outsider view it made it seem like all weapons were finally open to all classes.
:(
A pure outsider would have no set expectations for what weapons were open to what classes though. Furthermore, even the littlest amount of research on HoT would have resulted in you figuring this out on your own. HoT isn’t the let down here.
Not every skill needs to be good for PVE but you know … if you want to play a condi Guard in PVE, you can … it’s even pretty good otherwise Obal wouldn’t have taken the time to outline it.
Single player MMO … THAT way >
^ Obviously traps weren’t a problem in any department of the game, but they will be nerfed due a vocal and large amount of players in the forums seems unable to counter them in PvP.
Yeah, no. It’s clear why you don’t understand how balancing works. Assuming the problem Anet wants to solve and why they are trying to solve it doesn’t get you very far.
And somehow you do?
Here is my secret; I read. Anet already told us why they are balancing these things. That and I don’t assume Anet is lying to me. I save my conspiracy theory powers for good, not evil.
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Anet should really rethink Alacrity because percent based effects are notoriously hard to balance.
^ Obviously traps weren’t a problem in any department of the game, but they will be nerfed due a vocal and large amount of players in the forums seems unable to counter them in PvP.
Yeah, no. It’s clear why you don’t understand how balancing works. Assuming the problem Anet wants to solve and why they are trying to solve it doesn’t get you very far.
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