It’s funny how fast people forget that not everyone min maxes.
Like that suddenly invalidates the fact that some weapons are kitten….
Not even suddenly but a change to some other weapon certainly isn’t RIP Axe. The whole premise of the thread assumes everyone cares about what is the currently flavour of the month. Going out on a limb here but if your minmaxing, you simply use whatever works best; if something becomes better, you just switch to it. If you’re not, you don’t care if it’s best or worst; you use it for other reasons. Either way, Axe certainly isn’t going to get used any more or less by either of those two types of players because of an AA change on Scepter.
Call me crazy but I’m going to say this reality has much to do with why Anet doesn’t focus their efforts on ‘the worst’ weapons/skills, etc… for balancing.
Am I against changing Axe? Certainly not, if Axe wasn’t so ‘in between’ Scepter and Daggers, I would use it. No reason to be sensational.
You see? The way Arenanet “solves” problems of balance isn’t trying to figure a way to keep some pairity between classes or ofering alternative viable builds for each class; but instead REMOVING things..
Funny you keep trying to make this sound like a bad thing. It doesn’t make sense to you that if they want less sustain, they remove items that give you lots of sustain?
The problem is not the stats in the amulet, but the balance in the skills and traits of each classes.
It’s interesting when players decide what problem Anet was trying to fix, then turn around and complain when they think Anet solved that player-defined problem wrong.
You see? The way Arenanet “solves” problems of balance isn’t trying to figure a way to keep some pairity between classes or ofering alternative viable builds for each class; but instead REMOVING things..
Funny you keep trying to make this sound like a bad thing. It doesn’t make sense to you that if they want less sustain, they remove items that give you lots of sustain?
It’s not as complicated as you make it seem. If you are bored and you think the game is time-consuming and don’t think there is anything left; the question isn’t what’s left, the question is why are you still here.
Good community attitude you have there. If the going gets boring, the bored should just leave? I for one am hoping they put the reins on adding “new” systems and try to get back to their roots myself.
I may actually start playing more often once I know what their road map entails.
This has nothing to do with community attitude … that’s nonsense. Why convince someone they should play if they don’t enjoy the game?
It’s not as complicated as you make it seem. If you are bored and you think the game is time-consuming and don’t think there is anything left; the question isn’t what’s left, the question is why are you still here.
My suggestion is let people trade in those extra gem store item for “something”.
Many of those are actually faithful customer that pay Anet money. And some bought many duplicate for their alts. I don’t understand why Anet would screw people like that.
THAT is a suggestion that makes more sense than the OP’s idea, though I still think that Anet would be leary of allowing it to happen because if you didn’t get a refund, it’s because Anet believes you got your value from the money you spent on those items. Still, I also have some items i’m ‘stuck’ with that I wouldn’t mind exchanging for something else.
I cant follow the logic in thread, if there is any.
They are refusing to refund players for needless extras after the Account Bound slots were allowed to be purchased.
So they should remove the Accound Bound tags, and allow the extra Harvesting Tools and Salvage kits to be sold to other players on the Trading Post. So they can sell them for in game gold to others and let allows buy them cheaper.
I don’t get the logic. You are saying if you didn’t get a refund, you want to sell your account bound tools. You don’t explain WHY this should happen.
Because the extras are now useless. They serve no purpose other than to be deleted at this point. Why not let us sell them to other players or give them away to others if we cannot receive a refund?
No they aren’t useless … they still do their intended function. They still work as infinite harvesting tools. The reasoning you provide that other players get use from them makes no sense. If other players want to get use from a similar tool, they also have the ability to buy it from the GS like everyone else. Futthermore, even if they were rendered useless, you actually think Anet would be stupid enough to allow players to undercut their GS sales by making those account bound tools sellable? Clearly, you haven’t thought your suggestion through very well. I think you stopped at “Oh, I want my money back because I think it’s unfair I didn’t get a refund”.
I cant follow the logic in thread, if there is any.
They are refusing to refund players for needless extras after the Account Bound slots were allowed to be purchased.
So they should remove the Accound Bound tags, and allow the extra Harvesting Tools and Salvage kits to be sold to other players on the Trading Post. So they can sell them for in game gold to others and let allows buy them cheaper.
I don’t get the logic. You are saying if you didn’t get a refund, you want to sell your account bound tools. You don’t explain WHY this should happen. Getting gold from players is not the equivalent to a refund from Anet.
There isn’t a problem here so there isn’t a solution needed. It’s not clever creating a problem to a solution you want to see.
^ Then accept that some traits/skills from the Guardian/DH are just there to became a fossil. Spiritual Weapons and signets are just a joke and never worked as intended so let Arenanet just pass page and nuke them all. I’m fine about the idea; also, let Druids and Tempest to replace the bunker/support role Guardians had in the past.
Instead of nerfing some useful assets (traps, longbow) that CLEARLY didn’t make a dent in the most demanding departments in the game (competitive PvP, raids) they should work in making the sword, hammer and shield into something remotely usable.
I do accept it. It’s worked for 3 years … You don’t know if Anet isn’t going to work on making other things ‘remotely usable’.
Actually, i think that’s a pretty reasonable way to handle some of those things. They have limited resources and if some of their ideas aren’t working, there is no rule saying they have to continually waste time on them. Of course, the author of that post has a biased way of expressing it, but a more objective expression, someone could actually see those are normal behaviours.
if you want mounts, go play WoW, in that game there is plenty of mounts
I will never understand this way of thinking. Guild Wars 2 has many features inherited from other popular MMOs. Is that a bad thing? Should we avoid features that would complement the game just for the sake of avoiding them? Perhaps we should start removing other popular features also found in WoW and focus on making the game the most hipster possible, rather than the most fun.
Edit: Remove gliding please. Aion had it first.
Mounts doesn’t compliment the game though. It’s just a layer that only adds to the visual aspect of the game. IMO, that’s a really poor reason to continue to ask for it, even now on the eve that we will be able to glide in Tyria. Clearly, that’s Anet’s answer to the ‘MOUNTS’ question.
That’s the point … it’s my belief that the DPS meter would force people with certain narrowminded ideas out to the open to justify their recommendations for builds and treatment of others.
Besides, a DPS meter could be implemented to show you your own damage, not anyone elses. Ultimately, a real min/maxer will want to optimizing their damage with real data and a tool to measure it. The current guys just play Excel RP.
Every weapon is condi when your condi application is primarily from traits and Virtue. IMO, that’s actually the strength of condi on Guardian; we AREN’T locked into a specific weapon to get it. This does come with drawbacks though.
Come to think of it, aren’t most other professions in a similar boat? I mean, if you want a condi build on Necro, you’re going Scepter, or should be. This isn’t a unique to Guardian characteristic.
I get the mistake but to elude to the fact that you couldn’t find a warning is a little shaky. I mean, if you think about ANY weapon that has effects, you already know you have to have the weapon equipped to get the effects and they don’t linger when you swap to another. You’re assumption was strange considering EVERY other weapon effect in the game works opposite to what you thought would be the case for a legendary.
IMO, you should sell your legendary if you haven’t bound it if it’s a big deal to you.
I don’t think the kind of damage matters does it? I don’t want to take either kind, though I can see some argument that if you are taking both kinds at the same time, there should be a priority perhaps? I think the real question is if the damage is reduced before or after damage reduction modifiers.
Scaling? Probably toughness as my first thought. Can’t pretend to have thought alot about the idea and how it would scale. I just think preventing a certain amount of damage is better than a single hit. I will let the excel gamers argue that one.
I would prefer if there was a ‘smart’ way to apply Aegis but i don’t think stacking it is the answer; it’s way too easily abused that way.
Personally, I would like to see changed to absorb a certain amount of damage instead of a single hit. That way it’s not so easily wiped away by clever players.
i probably spend way more on gems than most folk and the only person gets the benefit from it is me.
That’s not true. The fact you think this shows you’re lack of understanding for how the game works and why certain decisions are made related to the GS. Everytime anyone buys gems, it benefits EVERY player of this game; it keeps the lights on, the rent paid and the servers running.
I’m hoping the Gyros take the hit, if there is one.
You do know that gyros are barely even used in meta hammer specs?
Its the same as saying reaper shouts should be nerfed to the ground because of rise, yet the balance note make no mention on near immortal reapers.
I don’t think that matters. I broken down why I think Gyros would be the optimal target for a Scrapper survival nerf. You think that’s wrong? I’ would be interested to see where you think the nerf should fall and why.
The problem with designing content that only 1% -5% can do is that the other 95%-99% payed for it.And on this planet that just dont work.People just dont/wont pay for other peoples entertainment.
Um, I got news for you … people have been paying for other people’s entertainment in this game from day 1, every time someone purchases gems. Now you’re saying it shouldn’t happen? That’s funny.
You paid for ACCESS to content, not successful completion of it, so your argument makes no sense. Everyone that bought HoT has the same access to raids. Learn what you are paying for with your money before spouting this nonsense.
It’s not a scam. It may be overpriced for what you get but it’s far from being a scam.
For those who read the patch notes and instant-buy it on the tradepost without further notice, it is.
So basically, if you were foolish, you got scammed. That actually makes much sense. Even the most clear descriptions on an item in the TP can’t keep a fool and his money from parting.
The best part is that Anet even made the most clear item description to prevent that from happening. It still was not able to keep you from parting with your money.
You use a 3rd party DPS meter because you think it’s OK, it works for a while so you think you’re in the clear then BAM … you get banned out of nowhere 4 months later for breaking the ToS.
Apparently, not just that guy. I think it’s amusing we have this re occurring thread every time there is a balance patch. Guardians aren’t useless or ruined yet. Feels so good to differentiate from these doomsayers.
It’s simple why it doesn’t make sense; you can’t predict how the changes (that you don’t know what they are) will affect Guardian/DH in the meta. Even if you DID know the exact details of the changes, you couldn’t do that.
Just stating a class is useless based on your ancedotes doesn’t make it true.
I’m not predicting anything. I’m talking about the situation as it is right now. The things I stated aren’t anecdotes, they’re facts. It’s a fact that guardian got the unique defensive buff instead of an offensive one. It’s a fact FMW pales in comparison with chronomancer quickness even if we disregard the extremely broken chronomancer rune. It’s a fact that it doesn’t bring a lot of other offensive buffs like fury and might. Maybe you keep referring to the personal dmg, but compared to group buffing that’s not even that relevant.
None of those things prove Guardian/DH is currently useless in PVE. None of those things indicate it will be made worse after the balance patch either. Bye Bye Crystal Ball.
What’s your obsession with the crystal ball? I’m not even predicting anything. Nor am I trying to prove anything, it’s an opinion, like everything else on this forum. I find it useless because everything it does best is not needed in PvE and everything that’s needed is done better by other classes.
Yet when you complain they are going to nerf those ‘useless’ PVE elements, it’s a massive QQ about utter demise of the profession.
In addition, we already know that things ‘done better’ by other classes does not make Guardian a useless class.
It was actually not a massive QQ. It was 1 angry post you had to whiteknight about, came in with personal attacks and then kept asking for my reasoning. You wanted to stir it up, so there you have it.
And ‘we’ know nothing of the sort. It’s an opinion. One shared by a lot of people.
Whiteknighting is about being reasonable and logical now? Awesome. I will wear that label proudly. At least no one will accuse me of making irrelevant correlations and uninformed opinions between facts and events, including events that didn’t happen based on facts that aren’t available. /fistpump
The fact remains that the big step in OW PVE performance that DH has on Guardian is indicative of the massive bursty nature that it has received, reinforcing my point that I think it’s too much.
Balancing around open world pve is like trying to determine the max load of a freight elevator by putting a single feather on it and measuring the stress. It’s nonsense.
True, I agree and I’ve not suggested they do anything like that. I’m just indicated that DH burst is significantly higher than Guardian, based on it’s OW PVE performance. I’m sure if you want to test that in whatever content you think matters, you can see for yourself.
It’s simple why it doesn’t make sense; you can’t predict how the changes (that you don’t know what they are) will affect Guardian/DH in the meta. Even if you DID know the exact details of the changes, you couldn’t do that.
Just stating a class is useless based on your ancedotes doesn’t make it true.
I’m not predicting anything. I’m talking about the situation as it is right now. The things I stated aren’t anecdotes, they’re facts. It’s a fact that guardian got the unique defensive buff instead of an offensive one. It’s a fact FMW pales in comparison with chronomancer quickness even if we disregard the extremely broken chronomancer rune. It’s a fact that it doesn’t bring a lot of other offensive buffs like fury and might. Maybe you keep referring to the personal dmg, but compared to group buffing that’s not even that relevant.
None of those things prove Guardian/DH is currently useless in PVE. None of those things indicate it will be made worse after the balance patch either. Bye Bye Crystal Ball.
What’s your obsession with the crystal ball? I’m not even predicting anything. Nor am I trying to prove anything, it’s an opinion, like everything else on this forum. I find it useless because everything it does best is not needed in PvE and everything that’s needed is done better by other classes.
Yet when you complain they are going to nerf those ‘useless’ PVE elements, it’s a massive QQ that is given the level of utter demise of the profession.
In addition, we already know that things ‘done better’ by other classes does not make Guardian a useless class, yet this is one foundation of your complaint.
All this based on a few vague points in a snippet about class direction. Yeah, all clear now ><
The fact remains that the big step in OW PVE performance that DH has on Guardian is indicative of the massive bursty nature that it has received, reinforcing my point that I think it’s too much. It wasn’t an argument to made to demonstrate how hard OW PVE is in the game, nor does it take away from the fact that there are builds that excel in OW PVE.
So again, I guess we agree; ‘conspicuous in its absence’ doesn’t lead me to conclude anything more than what I know from what was said.
It’s simple why it doesn’t make sense; you can’t predict how the changes (that you don’t know what they are) will affect Guardian/DH in the meta. Even if you DID know the exact details of the changes, you couldn’t do that.
Just stating a class is useless based on your ancedotes doesn’t make it true.
I’m not predicting anything. I’m talking about the situation as it is right now. The things I stated aren’t anecdotes, they’re facts. It’s a fact that guardian got the unique defensive buff instead of an offensive one. It’s a fact FMW pales in comparison with chronomancer quickness even if we disregard the extremely broken chronomancer rune. It’s a fact that it doesn’t bring a lot of other offensive buffs like fury and might. Maybe you keep referring to the personal dmg, but compared to group buffing that’s not even that relevant.
None of those things prove Guardian/DH is currently useless in PVE. None of those things indicate it will be made worse after the balance patch either. Bye Bye Crystal Ball.
Running around naked would not qualify as an ‘excellent PVE openworld’ build, just because you can do it. Despite how little you think it matters, there is actually ways to play and build classes to excel at OW content, just like any other PVE content in any other game and DH does that in a significant way over Guardian right now. in fact, Guardian already ranked highly as an OW PVE class before HoT.
From my interpretation, Anet is not going to take away the trick. That’s not what balancing is about. They didn’t say alot of things … do we just jump to conclusions those things thy didn’t say aren’t going to happen? Are we Donald Rumsfeld? Frankly, they didn’t say enough for anyone to conclude anything other than changes to ‘stuff’ that are ‘bursty and disruptive’. People just reading into and concluding things to with the tactics that complaining loudly gets them things they want. It doesn’t work that way people.
^^ That’s true … I think the timers are unfriendly, PERIOD. I just think they hurt the guy that can’t schedule massive and specific chunks of his time more than the guy whole already planning a whole day of playing.
It’s simple why it doesn’t make sense; you can’t predict how the changes (that you don’t know what they are) will affect Guardian/DH in the meta. Even if you DID know the exact details of the changes, you still couldn’t do that.
Just stating a class is currently useless based on your ancedotes and unsubstantiated correlations doesn’t make it true.
The problem here is that you don’t get that Anet have concepts they want the classes to follow and some of those changes they are talking about are because of straying from the concepts, not because of OP or MEH. If you actually look at the history of balance patches, many of the changes actually occur because of class concept vs. relative strength of effects. GW2 is no different.
I’m glad you want to talk concepts, concepts are my specialty. The concept of DH is a selfish backline damage dealer with limited support (relative regular guard), and traps to improve damage and survivability at close-range. It does its job decently, mainly by concentrated bursts, a large part of which is due to the daze on traps and dragon’s maw’s ward. So when they say “DH is too good at burst and disruption”, it’s very concerning since those are the two pillars the spec appears to be built on, and the spec seems mediocre overall. Unless they give a big buff to sustained damage and mobility, I don’t see this ending well.
That’s a fair CONCERN. In fact, it’s a concern of anyone that ANY balance patch is going to screw something up. The problem with this thread, as any other pre-balance QQ is that it hasn’t happened yet.
I for one think that the DH is TOO focused on burst and disruption; proven by it’s significant increase in PVE openworld capability over Guardian and it’s vastly different performance between noobs and pros in PVP.
Unfortunately, this results in not all that useful in the actual challenging encounters in PVE and much too predictable in PVP. Ironically, some narrowminded people who want more use from their Guardians in PVE are complaining about changing the very thing that can fix that problem because burst and disruption have no place in challenging PVE in this game. >< Good thing Anet is going to ignore them.
I’m not crying wolf, I’m expressing my dissatisfaction about the current situation and after reading the whole thing (not just the guardian part), the perceived lack of interest to do anything about it.
So, if I understand you correctly, Anet releasing information about the direction they want classes to take for the next balancing patch is, in your opinion, a perceived lack of interest on their part to address the current situation in PVE? I’m just going to attribute that to the fact that your interpretation of the current situation is narrow and biased and not based on very much (if any) data. #sensationalanecdotes
So how am I wrong? You keep nitpicking, taking out the least important sentences. How exactly am I wrong about my interpretation of what guardian brings to a PvE environment? Or have you nothing constructive to say?
You haven’t shown you are right to begin with … and your arguments don’t make sense. These aren’t ‘nitpicks’. You’re making absolute statements about the effectis the balance on Gaurdian PVE state on basically … nothing. Put away the crystal balls people.
Even though they were vague, there are only so many ways to reduce the survivability of SCRAPPER.
1. Nerf to Medic, Bulwark and Purge Gyro
2. Nerf to Adaptive Armor and Rapid Regeneration
While there are other traits that are defensive, they require more stringent conditions or active play, so I doubt Anet will reduce the effectiveness on those.
I’m going to reduce that list further; I would like to think they don’t nerf the traits because making a super tanky Scrapper with them does come at notably reduced offensive capability. I’m hoping the Gyros take the hit, if there is one. They are way to versatile and gain many positive benefits with tool, their basic function and even blowing them up.
Is scrapper to defensive? I guess that has more to do with what Anet wants the class concept to be as opposed to how it currently performs.
The problem that most elite specs were OP as kitten, some get nerfed. DH was ‘meh’, but is also looking at nerfs.
The problem here is that you don’t get that Anet have concepts they want the classes to follow and some of those changes they are talking about are because of straying from the concepts, not because of OP or MEH. If you actually look at the history of balance patches, many of the changes actually occur because of class concept vs. relative strength of effects. GW2 is no different.
I’m not crying wolf, I’m expressing my dissatisfaction about the current situation and after reading the whole thing (not just the guardian part), the perceived lack of interest to do anything about it.
So, if I understand you correctly, Anet releasing information about the direction they want classes to take for the next balancing patch is, in your opinion, a perceived lack of interest on their part to address the current situation in PVE (which is just a trumped up way of saying “I want to be OPed like the other OPed classes because of raids”)? I’m just going to attribute that to the fact that your interpretation of the current situation is narrow and biased and not based on very much (if any) data. #sensationalanecdotes
Guardian hasn’t become useless because of a patch that hasn’t happened yet, guardian became useless with the introduction of HoT. Or more accurately, because the elite specs of other classes are just insanely more powerful.
Right, and that in your opinion is a Guardian class problem? So, as one example, Chronomancer Alacrity abilities … is a Guardian class problem? There are others but that’s an interesting perspective you got there. Maybe I’m just old school but that doesn’t make sense because nothing you can give Guardians addresses ANY of those OPed Elite spec’s … unless you’re unrealistically suggesting Guardians get OP’ed elite spec’s, but you’re not one of THOSE people are you? Furthermore, if you look beyond your ‘Guardian bubble thinking’, you will see that other classes are getting balanced as well, so making claims of any sort that Guardians will be useless, because of OTHER classes OPed elite specs starts sounding more and more comical.
The problem with the way you think is that it’s not unique or new; we have all seen this behaviour before, yet when balance is patched, the anticipated Armageddon never comes. You’re just Crying Wolf to confirm your own dissatisfaction for the class and it’s perceived lack of whatever. That’s not real.
History doesn’t lie … we had multiple balance patches in the past with Dungeons, and Guardians were not rendered useless in PVE or excluded from rosters because of those patches. Raids will be no different..
I’m not saying it’s not valid, but it’s not different than when Dungeons were in the nascent stages either; now you can PUG a dungeon with your eyes closed … AND we have had multiple balance patches in that time.
No, I just can’t see how the fate of the class PVE balance will be affected by raids, no more so than it was because of dungeons in the past. Doomsaying is not a compelling argument.
Other classes having more DPS than Guardian in PVE does not make Guardians useless in PVE. That is all.
To 90% of the unwashed masses it does. So unless they’re in a decent guild guardians will always be shunned, which isn’t fun. Even if its based on ignorance, its still a handicap for those who aren’t in raiding guilds and pugging things is their only choice. Still decent in dungeons, but no one really does dungeons now.
Oh now HERE lies the real issue you have … you’re focused on RAIDING performance. Here is a bad bit of reality for you … no class will be balanced about their capabilities in raids because of:
1. The relative insignificance that raiding has on overall PVE gameplay.
2. The idea that there is something wrong with PUGing, which their isn’t. It’s just going to take PUG’s longer to get up to speed with raids, just like Dungeons.
No, actually, I don’t get your point because Guardians haven’t been useless in PVE for 3 years now considering:
1. We have had numerous balance patches in the past that haven’t made Guardians useless in PVE.
2. It’s going to take more than one patch to do such a thing.
3. The conditions you claim that will make Guardians useless has existed for a very long time, and currently exists. So it’s unlikely any patch will change that for the worse, since you decided to speak in absolutes.
I mean, if you have some sort of reasonable explanation to why Guardians will be rendered useless in PVE because of THIS patch, please elaborate, though I’m doubtful you can even do that, since you have little idea about the current state, much less a state where you don’t know what changes are going to happen. Until then, your posts are just sensational anecdotes.
That being said, guardian is completely useless in PvE.
If this is true, then it proves that the Guardian is much more dependent on the person sitting behind the keyboard than other classes then. That’s a L2P problem. If you can’t deliver what is needed in PVE on a Guardian, time to reconsider the classes you play or even your own skills as an MMO player.
Nice, blame it on the player that guardian has no proper DPS and unneeded utilities. Sure, play it that way. You know absolutely nothing about me but it’s a great argument.
It’s not hard to do … DPS and knowledge of class skills and choice is most significantly influenced by the person playing that character. I don’t need to know much about someone that associates problems with raid design to problems with specific classes.
Furthermore, if you look beyond your ‘Guardian bubble thinking’, you will see that other classes are getting balanced as well, so making claims of any sort that Guardians will be useless, because of OTHER classes OPed elite specs starts sounding more and more comical.