I have tried to stick it out in HoT, character after character, race after race, seriously trying to find the fun in the game, but in the end just doing what is needed, as I struggled with my inner feelings and combating the sensations that others will not easily abandon new content.. I was utterly disappointed to find, after only a few months play, the zones to be dead in my EU world server.. constantly receiving message to change maps to only find it popping up again after less than 5min in the ‘more populated’ map.. One has to critically wonder about the design idea, although true in nature and grand on paper, most people just wont play or look for pug groups.
Countless times I have heard good friends go completely crazy on TS, even helping them, outside of story-mode did not have the desired effect and those in the guild who already completed their Achievement points in the areas are not much interested to run through grinding content unless they are completely bored or have no other achi’s to hunt. Sadly I really feel ArenaNet will abnegate any major changes to accommodate the community at large and change the mechanics of current state of the game as it seems the original plan to back Guilds and community play is here to stay, although I try to believe myself wrong on this matter nothing seems clear if any PvE group based focused content will get any easier. Pity for solo/semi-solo players like myself but hey, there are many more things to do, until all achievements are done at least.
We can only hope.That’s what tends to happen when players rush through content or decide not to do certain aspects (e.g. collections) because they don’t enjoy them. Had they released 15+ maps like core Tyria, we’d still be in the same condition as we are now. Of course what you’re seeing here is nothing new and happens in every MMO.
Except if they released a larger number of maps like in core Tyria, it’s unlikely they would all be mostly-meta maps. This would mean there would likely be more things for solo or small group players to do in a not very full map.
Except they would have exhausted all content by this point in time or sooner which was the point I was making.
That’s not how it works for a subset of voracious alt players.
They play everything with one character. Then they play everything with the next character. Etc. Etc.
There’s a certain breakpoint for amount of content, different for every individual, where there’s enough content that starting the process anew, the content will feel fresh enough to keep the player interested. Obviously, if there were a million maps, no one would think the first map had become stale after playing all million of them and then starting on a new character. With just 4 maps, a great many players will feel the staleness set in very early in their replay cycles. Fifteen maps will be a decent number for far more players than just a measly 4 maps.
Hold on … so voracious alt players would be more likely to play multiple times through 15 maps of Core Tyria-like content than 4 maps of HoT-like content? If there is anything MORE stale than 4 maps of HoT-like content, it’s 15 maps of Core-like content. Of course, it depends on who’s behind the keyboard but quantity of maps is not relevant, unless of course the goal was to hide poor, easy content behind an expanse of shiny looking visuals akin to a MMO scenery museum… Oh, I sort of described what Core feels like right there.
About 2years ago i spend 600gold for ascended armor and now i wanna play another class cudnt anet have warned me earlier abou that?
You HONESTLY didn’t notice that the armor classification (Light, Medium, Heavy) of your armor that YOU crafted was limited by the crafting profession you used to make it?
Furthermore, you didn’t realize that classes were limited to a specific armor classification, therefore restricting them on what armor classification of said-crafted Ascended armor you made, especially considering you have managed to level 80 using a specific armor classification?
OK, I don’t believe you.
So leveling a character to 80 is not something significant to get access to endgame content? Earning gold to get gear is not significant to outfit your characters? Understanding how to play and learning how to do things isn’t significant? All those examples I provided fit EXACTLY your definition for gating. I did NOT mention anything about being ‘distance-gated’, so don’t pretend my examples are less valid because you came up with a completely ridiculous one.
I’m only applying your very vague and general description of gating to just a few other MMO examples where it’s applicable, but of course, it doesn’t dawn on you that you switch your meanings around at your leisure to suit whatever arguments you have about why HoT is a failure.
I get you don’t like Hot, but if you aren’t going to have a honest discussion about why, then you aren’t really too serious about it in the first place. Claiming that HoT is a failure for you because for one example, mushrooms are ‘gated’ by Masteries? That doesn’t make a whole lot of sense considering all of the countless OTHER content you have done that is MUCH worsely ‘gated’ than mushrooms are. One has to wonder how you even managed to get out of your first map if you really feel ‘gated’ by such a minor thing a mushrooms …
Simply put, complaining there are ‘things’ in the game that limit your progress (don’t CARE what you want to call those ‘things’) is rather dumb, consider that’s ALL an MMO is … ‘things’ you have to do (called PLAYING the GAME) to achieve ‘stuff’. (I’m vague here to avoid ridiculous arguments about definitions).
What separates GW2 from other MMOs is that relative to other MMO’s, fewer of those ‘things’ actually prevent you from doing much of the ‘stuff’ in the game. Yes, you are still limited in progression, but if you think it’s significant compared to industry standard, then you just aren’t being objective or you just have no clue about what the standard in the industry actually is.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
I’m surprised how little people consider the chance to proc a crit more often with a weapon like FT vs. something that hits much less often doesn’t actually change the face of the build they are using.
My big problem is that the people that are pumping out these ‘facts’ about highest ENGI DPS are showing comparisons to other things of interest.
FT doesn’t do as much DPS as grenades? OK, but HOW much less? Enough to convince me crit procing and quicknessing my way into a hybrid from power FT build isn’t worth that difference? Show me!
I have tried to stick it out in HoT, character after character, race after race, seriously trying to find the fun in the game, but in the end just doing what is needed, as I struggled with my inner feelings and combating the sensations that others will not easily abandon new content.. I was utterly disappointed to find, after only a few months play, the zones to be dead in my EU world server.. constantly receiving message to change maps to only find it popping up again after less than 5min in the ‘more populated’ map.. One has to critically wonder about the design idea, although true in nature and grand on paper, most people just wont play or look for pug groups.
Countless times I have heard good friends go completely crazy on TS, even helping them, outside of story-mode did not have the desired effect and those in the guild who already completed their Achievement points in the areas are not much interested to run through grinding content unless they are completely bored or have no other achi’s to hunt. Sadly I really feel ArenaNet will abnegate any major changes to accommodate the community at large and change the mechanics of current state of the game as it seems the original plan to back Guilds and community play is here to stay, although I try to believe myself wrong on this matter nothing seems clear if any PvE group based focused content will get any easier. Pity for solo/semi-solo players like myself but hey, there are many more things to do, until all achievements are done at least.
We can only hope.That’s what tends to happen when players rush through content or decide not to do certain aspects (e.g. collections) because they don’t enjoy them. Had they released 15+ maps like core Tyria, we’d still be in the same condition as we are now. Of course what you’re seeing here is nothing new and happens in every MMO.
Except if they released a larger number of maps like in core Tyria, it’s unlikely they would all be mostly-meta maps. This would mean there would likely be more things for solo or small group players to do in a not very full map.
Except they would have exhausted all content by this point in time or sooner which was the point I was making.
Yes, … if they were large maps like core Tyria, then HoT would just be more of the same of what core Tyria is … a place to earn daily’s and farm mats. WHOOPIE!! Let’s be honest here, HoT maps are what they are because Anet DIDN’T want them to be an extension of core Tyria, which is frankly a huge bore unless Scarlett is blowing it up somewhere.
So where is the mastery gating again? Where do you need to grind for masteries?
The moment you venture into VB you’re confronted with all kinds of mushroom. Speed, adrenaline, bouncing. And interacting with them gives you a pop-up telling you you can’t use that content. That’s mastery gating.
No it’s not. A gate limits your progress. Those aren’t gates.
That’s not the definition of a gate. A gate limits access to something, not necessarily progress.
Then having gates in MMO’s isn’t really a problem in the first place because you can define almost everything as a gate, including:
1. Levels
2. Not starting out with gold
3. Not knowing how to play
4. Not having instance access to all contentYou’re complaint is quite ridiculous in the context you define ‘gates’; ONLY complain about the gates you encounter in HoT, and not any of MANY MORE you had to overcome in Core? You’re arguments just aren’t logical.
The issue with gates like levels, is as you pass them, your character gets stronger, you get more abilities, it actually has a reward for completing the gate, and the gate can be completed in a reasonable amount of time.
Masteries, on the other hand… it’s a grind for a skill that you barely use. The grind takes a VERY long time, and the content is NOT engaging at all. In core tyria you had a BUNCH of maps to level on, in HOT you have…. 4. That’s the problem, it’s not the grind, it’s the fact you feel the grind.
Engaging or not, the definition the poster uses for a gate makes Masteries the same kind of gate as anything else that limits your progress, like levels, lacking gold, or basically ANYTHING you have to play to earn or learn about the game. If the poster had a more reasonable definition for a gate, he wouldn’t look so ridiculous using it as a premise to complain about GW2.
So where is the mastery gating again? Where do you need to grind for masteries?
The moment you venture into VB you’re confronted with all kinds of mushroom. Speed, adrenaline, bouncing. And interacting with them gives you a pop-up telling you you can’t use that content. That’s mastery gating.
No it’s not. A gate limits your progress. Those aren’t gates.
That’s not the definition of a gate. A gate limits access to something, not necessarily progress.
Then having gates in MMO’s isn’t really a problem in the first place because you can define almost everything as a gate, including:
1. Levels
2. Not starting out with gold
3. Not knowing how to play
4. Not having instance access to all content
You’re complaint is quite ridiculous in the context you define ‘gates’; ONLY complain about the gates you encounter in HoT, and not any of MANY MORE you had to overcome in Core? You’re arguments just aren’t logical.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
So where is the mastery gating again? Where do you need to grind for masteries?
The moment you venture into VB you’re confronted with all kinds of mushroom. Speed, adrenaline, bouncing. And interacting with them gives you a pop-up telling you you can’t use that content. That’s mastery gating.
No it’s not. A gate limits your progress. Those aren’t gates.
^^ or willing to look sensational to think it proves a point. Based on his definition, there isn’t a single MMO that isn’t grindy; every MMO that exists has an element in it that has repeatable content. So my conclusion based on that ridiculous definition; players QQing about grindy should simply stop playing MMO’s altogether.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
This game does not force you out of elite content. That’s a sensational statement. If you want to be SELECTIVE in the roles you take in a raid with the profession you want, then its YOUR responsibility to find the other 9 people that DON’T want to be selective with the roles they take in raids.
If that’s not plain enough English for you, here is the rule you should be abiding by.
If YOU want to choose your role and profession in a raid, then it is YOU that must make and organize your own raids.
The insane thing here is that you should already know this by now because of the meta/PUG/dungeon debacles we used to have for 2 years prior. It’s the SAME debate and the result is STILL the same: Make your own teams.
Yeah, wish me good luck with that. It’s not the same to form 5-man party for semi-casual content and 10-man party for HC content when LFG doesn’t even work for 10 people and commanderless squads are annoyance – i’m not a comm so I can’t really be a leader
Right … so let’s make excuses why we don’t try to do something, turn that into “I CAN’T”, blame Anet and go for the field goal with “Refund PLZ”. It’s a good plan, but I don’t think it’s going to get you guys anywhere.
What I said was true because if you think it’s reasonable for you to be able to be selective in a raid, but the guy organizing the raid can’t, that’s just a nonsense position to have … yet here we are, people thinking their special snowflakes.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
Number of threads complaining is not an indicator of how many people are leaving or if they even left.
This game does not force you out of elite content. That’s a sensational statement. If you want to be SELECTIVE in the roles you take in a raid with the profession you want, then its YOUR responsibility to find the other 9 people that DON’T want to be selective with the roles they take in raids.
If that’s not plain enough English for you, here is the rule you should be abiding by.
If YOU want to choose your role and profession in a raid, then it is YOU that must make and organize your own raids.
The insane thing here is that you should already know this by now because of the meta/PUG/dungeon debacles we used to have for 2 years prior. It’s the SAME debate and the result is STILL the same: Make your own teams.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
In PvE I have been enjoying a (questionable) Flamethrower Viper build, with the Scrapper line equipped for the gyros. I particularly enjoy the synergy between the “gain might/stability with flamethrower” trait with both the “gain might when you have stability” and “gain 3 sec quickness when over 10 stacks of might” (both of those scrapper traits). So I have permanent stability and permanent ~12 stacks of Might (without strength runes!) When I have a flamethrower equipped.
By-the-numbers, grenade setups are probably stronger, but seeing 10k burn ticks and 6k damage per FT cycle doesn’t feel weak.
At the end of the day, especially in PvE, maximizing your DPS output should take a backseat to playing a class and style that you enjoy. I don’t know anyone who plays a build like I do, and I’m ok with that, because Viper Flamethrower with Gyros is just too freaking fun for me to give up.
It would be nice to see how a Viper-equipped, might-stacking, boon-duration, FT-camping, Scrapper build compares to nades … alas, we will never get those numbers. I hear what you’re saying: I easily get 25 might stacks, perma-stab, as well as procing swiftness, fury, vigor and now QUICKNESS while maintaining reasonable conditions on multiple foes.
I know it’s not ‘sexy’, but camping FT has so many possibilities but I doubt anyone is brave enough to try them.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
And your proof that complainers don’t have knowledge of overall class direction?
Well, unless any of you are Anet devs working on class conception and balance, I think I got that one nailed buddy. If all your assumptions about how the changes will impact the class are based on what you think will happen in other class changes and the game overall, you’re going to have a tough go at it.
Don’t get me wrong; I would LOVE to see a roadmap on how this class will develop over time to understand the WHY of these last changes, but Anet doesn’t work that way.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
So you want people to NOT complain about poor decisions on Anet’s part?
Their balancing history is no excuse to send out such bad changes. I will complain, people will complain. Does that mean I won’t adapt? Of course not. That still doesn’t excuse such bad practices and as a customer, I WILL complain.Like I said, which you ignored, you don’t know what the future holds, so you don’t know if these are poor decisions; lack of seeing the whole picture.
I’m not discouraging complaining, but your complaining about something we have seen as standard practice since day 1. GL.
Conversely, you don’t know the future and therefore don’t know if these are good decisions; lack of seeing the whole picture.
Of course, that line of thinking means that nothing ever gets discussed, criticized, or praised.
The difference is that I didn’t claim they were good, simply that those people complaining they were bad are doing so without knowledge of overall class direction. Therefore, you can’t accuse me of such a thing.
Frankly, I don’t think these were ‘class-destroying’ changes in any way and they were probably done on the premise of a mixture of being OPed elements of the class as well as class concept; some of these changes were in fact, completely obvious to a person with an objective view of the game, as well as experience with other classes. When I see threads about ‘destroyed classes’, YES, please be more sensational, the more the better because that’s what Anet pays attention to AMIRITE! Class is no less playable than it was for anyone that was as knowledgeable about it as you claim you are.
In fact, as we have seen, some people actually agree that these weren’t entirely unreasonable changes; I guess you’re going to call them clueless as well right? Seems like the in vogue thing to do when people disagree with you.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
So you want people to NOT complain about poor decisions on Anet’s part?
Their balancing history is no excuse to send out such bad changes. I will complain, people will complain. Does that mean I won’t adapt? Of course not. That still doesn’t excuse such bad practices and as a customer, I WILL complain.
Like I said, which you ignored, you don’t know what the future holds, so you don’t know if these are poor decisions; lack of seeing the whole picture.
I’m not discouraging complaining, but your complaining about something we have seen as standard practice since day 1. GL.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
You’re views don’t make sense; You object to MMO’s making content that you can’t experience 100% because you’re not willing to solve problems, adapt to the situations your presented, acknowledge general MMO operation and development.
That wouldn’t be so bad if you weren’t using your uninformed views to argue with people about how you think you deserve a refund, etc …
It doesn’t make sense that I can’t play the raid and I want a refund?
No it doesn’t, and I’ve already explained why.
You’re views don’t make sense; You object to MMO’s making content that you purposefully reject yourself from because you’re not willing to solve problems, adapt to the situations your presented, acknowledge general MMO operation and development, etc….
That wouldn’t be so bad if you weren’t using your uninformed and unreasonable views and understanding to argue with people about how you think you deserve a refund because it’s Anet’s fault for bad design. Ever consider that it’s you being the problem here? Of course not.
You don’t like our discussion and think I’m trolling you? That’s a senseless accusation; You posted on this forum, opening yourself up for a discussion, now you don’t like the direction it’s having and people disagreeing with you, so they are trolls? OK.
I still don’t get the complaint; you play MMO’s, this is how they work. If you don’t like it, I don’t see much choice for you other than to make better choices. You want to play a tank in a game where only a sliver of the content requires it and even than, have to compete with other classes for that single tank spot in a raid? Time to find another game if I was in your position.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
Developers give players content they need to adapt to all the time in MMOs, usually as problems they have to solve. I get it, you’re not a problem-solver .. you want all content to be the way you think it should be so you don’t have to do much thinking and when you don’t get it, you to think something went wrong.
That’s just not how MMO’s work. Better start looking into something else if you think MMO dev’s cater to every players desires.
I don’t see where the design prevents you from liking tanks, making a tank build or playing one;l it’s simply not optimal in most cases. You’re not explaining yourself very well here. If you’re serious about this, I suggest you have a little more of your thought process with people here, including Anet; otherwise it’s just a Rant.
If you’re suggesting a Guardian can’t tank because of the game design, I’m not going to argue with you about that because Guardians are very tanky. If you’re suggesting you can’t get a team to raid as a tank Guardian, that problem originates with you.
If you don’t like the way the game is designed, it’s funny that it’s taken you this long to recognize it. It’s not holy trinity and we were told that from launch; if that is such a barrier to you to like the game and play it, then I have little sympathy for you for subjecting yourself to it.
I would LOVE a refund for the content I cannot and will not get to see. Could you tell them to start passing out refunds?
I’m sure you would but that’s a ridiculous position to have; Anet didn’t release the content guaranteeing unreasonable players unwilling to adapt to the situations they were presented would experience all content. Oh well.
I don’t see where the design prevents you from liking tanks, making a tank build or playing one;l it’s simply not optimal in most cases. You’re not explaining yourself very well here. If you’re serious about this, I suggest you have a little more of your thought process with people here, including Anet; otherwise it’s just a Rant.
If you’re suggesting a Guardian can’t tank because of the game design, I’m not going to argue with you about that because Guardians are very tanky. If you’re suggesting you can’t get a team to raid as a tank Guardian, that problem originates with you.
If you don’t like the way the game is designed, it’s funny that it’s taken you this long to recognize it. It’s not holy trinity and we were told that from launch; if that is such a barrier to you to like the game and play it, then I have little sympathy for you for subjecting yourself to it.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
Yup, I get that. So play one.
The reluctance to accept change and adapt is strong with these ones. Funny that these people even subject themselves to MMO gaming in the first place.
I love my guardian, 5 thousand hours and I can’t play him in this raid.
Yeah, I read that. It doesn’t change the fact you don’t understand you are playing an MMO; MMO’s change all the time and how players interact with them must changes as well if they want to go along for the ride … so if that’s not something you’re willing to accept, why do you play them? If you don’t want to adapt, you shouldn’t be subjecting yourself to these kinds of game.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
The reluctance to accept change and adapt is strong with these ones. Funny that these people even subject themselves to MMO gaming in the first place.
That’s you just not recognizing their balancing cycles, understanding history, etc …
That’s OK, these threads make a huge impact on Anet’s decisions >< I hope people make more. In the meantime, if people are actually any good at playing the class, they will adapt.
They can’t ban you for Janx since it uses screenshots of combat log to get dps. And doesn’t access game files.
They can because technically it’s botting.
It’s not boring but ok, on this premise you can be banned for using twitch. It is a program that does not interact with anything with the game files, client or server. All it does is take screenshots and run a number recognition on the area for the chatlog, while noting programs interact with the game.
Let’s be honest to ourselves here … if people understand the EULA, Anet can decide to ban you for using a third party anything, including Twitch. It would be stupid in some cases, yes, but it can be done and nothing would stop them from doing so.
Even these seemingly innocent programs are not exempt. If for some reason, Anet decided using any particular program provided some advantage to playing the game, no one would be spared if they decided to do something about it. It’s a dangerous game when people talk themselves into doing things they make assumptions about.
Frankly, I’m hoping the proliferation of Janx tool forces their hand to make the DPS information legally available, fearing that their would be just too many players to take action against if they felt they had to.
The overwhelming consensus last season was that revenant was overpowered. I thought nerfing overpowered classes lead to balance (you know, that thing all players want and devs actively work towards)?
People don’t see the whole picture. They see what they want to see, exclude the rest, ignore parts of the reality that prevent them from coming to logical conclusions. It’s easier to ragepost than it is to think how to adapt, though one is more effective than the other.
So you’re saying that I’m accusing you of being sensational about Revenant being a half-functional class is indicative that I’m in denial that Rev is a class ‘riddled with bugs and half-finished concepts’? Alrighty then. I guess I will stick with my opinion of how sensational you are being.
Frankly, I don’t even know where you’re going with this; fixing bugs is a different activity than balancing a class so complaining about fixing bugs in a thread about ‘destroying Revs because of a few changes’ seems illogical to me.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
I don’t get what that has to do with what I said … poster was QQing about lack of content in HoT compared to Core; he conveniently overlooked that Anet had more time to release that ‘more content’, to his advantage of course.
I find it hard to believe that you don’t think this class is riddled with bugs and half-finished concepts.
I find it hard to believe you got that idea from ANYTHING I have posted thus far.
Do I think it’s OK or not is irrelevant; I’ve been here 3 years+ and that’s long enough to know Anet has a process for fixing bugs, and they do. I also know Anet has balancing cycles and those don’t happen in a week or two. I also know ranting about it on the forums is a pretty useless activity; Anet has given guidelines on how to give good feedback; you should try reading that as well.
You’re just sensational and it doesn’t make your point any stronger; half functional class? You must be with the guy that finds Rev hard to play.
This expansion was a scam for costing the same amount as the vanilla Guild Wars 2 which brought SOOOOOO much more content and armor/weaponsets.
That’s a rather uninformed view considering it took 3 years to get all that Core GW2 content, armor/weaponsets and HoT isn’t even 6 months old.
Yes, there are lots of things lacking … and it would have been STUPID for Anet to pile on more of those lacking things while some other things were wildly OPed. If none of you have noticed, this is how the works, and not just in GW2. The OPed stuff gets the nerfs first, then whatever needed to boost the rest, IF needed. And I don’t fault Anet for letting the players gain some experiences with the current version before (if) they make those boosts, otherwise you’re going to get even MORE QQing clueless players on the forums.
Sorry, you must be new here.
How long did it take to fix simple Mesmer bugs? 3 years was it?
How long did it take for Necro to get a proper overhaul? 3 years was it?
How long will it take for Revenant to get a proper overhaul? 3 years too?
I’m not new and I did said it takes a long time for these things to be worked out. I’m not defending that; it’s just how it works. Deal with it.
The fact is that it’s NORMAL that some bugs take a long time to get fixed; in fact some NEVER get fixed in MMO’s; including GW2. And I’m the new one here?
(edited by Obtena.7952)
As someone who’s just made a revenant and is learning to play it, I have to ask….. can you shed some light on what exactly you don’t like about it? You don’t offer any details in your post.
Hopefully it was a serious question because I will provide an actual answer to it.
From a dedicated Revenant. And a truly honest response.
The concept behind Revenants was the focus around energy management and not on cool downs. It does require skill to play for this matter. The issue is they arived out the gate as OP….. and there begins the problem.
The bumpy road most traveled by….. ANET…. Overnerf.
Q: So why do revenants hate what anet is doing?
- Adding cooldowns to a class that already needs to micromanage their energy, their elites, their skill rotation and their surrounding. This also goes directly against what we were told about the revenant. That there would be very minimal cool downs.
- Nerfing boons/buffs that are directly related to a revenants elite. (Quickness, Energy)
- Nerfing the only elites the rev get use out of without looking into the most unused ones. And buffing those (Ventari & Jalace).
- This one is quite shocking: because this one alone has basically made the Rev Glint useless.
- Note: Revenants is one of the top classes to apply multiple boons both to themselves & teammates.
- Note: Revenants greatest weakness is the lack of condi removal. In fact they are the worst class to remove condis.
- Balance patch: Giving a condi heavy class (Necro) the ability to convert boons in to conditions
- Balance patch: Nerfing the strongest and only useful heal Revenants have.
Additional nerfs that actually hurt revenant without taking the class into account. (Quickness, Sigil of Energy, rune of durability)
Trying not make assumptions, but it was a overnerf based on stats alone.
I personally do not hate the Revenant, but I do hate having put my heart and soul into several classes just to watch them turn into mush based on a communities QQ level.
As a result I quit GW2. I was curious what this patch would bring.
So obviously, you are wrong. Anet intends for CDs to be a ‘thing’ on Revs, even WITH energy management.
Edit: they had 3 years worth to learn from, 3 beta weekends, and then several more patches (of which we barely got any fixes).
Revenant shouldn’t be this non-functional at this stage.Didn’t you mean 2 bwes? After all “we are in a good spot”.
I won’t debate with you, but NO one with a reasonable expectation will think that 2 BWE’s will result in a balanced class at release.
Seems like you are new to rev then because that’s exactly what we were told when we asked as to why they didn’t buff ventari/jalis after bwe3.
I think whatever statement was made, you simply took it out of context to ‘prove’ whatever negative thinking you have about Anet, which of course ignores the history we have for their balancing cycles. Even if that statement was made, we know it’s not true.
Besides, the incessant ‘Revs are dead/destroyed’ … haven’t most of us been here long enough to know this is nonsense? It’s going to take a long time for Anet to make up for those changes … IF they think it needs to happen. We know their balance cycles. Time to get with the program people.
Yes, there are lots of things lacking … and it would have been STUPID for Anet to pile on more of those lacking things while some other things were wildly OPed. If none of you have noticed, this is how the works, and not just in GW2. The OPed stuff gets the nerfs first, then whatever needed to boost the rest, IF needed. And I don’t fault Anet for letting the players gain some experiences with the current version before (if) they make those boosts, otherwise you’re going to get even MORE QQing clueless players on the forums.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
Players were promised raids and legendary armor with HoT. None of these came with HoT. It was a blatant lie. A single wing was released, but as far as I know, the 50$ spent didn’t say “50$ season pass for all content we’ll be releasing over the period of a year”.
A single new arena was released. There were 45 pvp maps in the first Guild Wars.
Two new armor sets were introduced.No it isn’t worth $50, you’re not mistaken. The standards are just low.
Welcome to MMO’s where every expansion is the equivalent to a Seasons Pass.
Is that really a bad thing though?
MMOs are getting more complex, more detailed and that means they require more time to build. Just compare Gw1 with Gw2… old zones had a handful of models, new zones have 100s takes time and man power to build. Even the terrain itself, its one thing to have a game with plain terrain thats essentially automatically generated by a heatmap denoting elevation to zones we have in Heart of Thorns were everything needs to be created manually. We know for sure work on Heart of Thorns started at least 2 years prior to launch (source: Maclaine stated on Guild Chat he started working on HoT soundtrack 2 years ago and probably the sountrack wasnt the first thing they worked on just saying) All things being equal we’ll get another 2 years of free content before the next expansion hits.
Free content releases after an expansion hits does sound exactly like a season pass but whats the alternative? wait out those extra 2 years until Anet finish all the content and release it all at once? And whats the advantage? you’re still paying the same amount for the same exact amount of content, is getting it all at once really better then getting it in chunks?
People keep comparing Gw2 with Gw1. Only they just compare raw numbers and ignore all the details. Sure any Gw1 expansion had a ton more maps, does anyone really think it takes the same amount of time to build a Gw1 map as it must have taken to build one of the new maps? How about content wise? Gw1 campaigns/expansion didnt change the game that drastically. They didnt introduce things like Gliding, Add new mechanics to existent professions or even provide new game types like Adventures. Does anyone here thing these things come easy? Flip as switch or something? To implement something like gliding you’d need to do major changes to the engine and that also means major testing. This is a double edged sword of course, major changes to the engine means less time to develop content but at the same time its a one time cost and it allows for a great variety of content in the future.
Yes, its a bad thing. Developers don’t release things in small bundles like this because they have to, they do it to keep players around for longer. I’ve explained this in an earlier post— turning a player into a long term investment is now the business model for several developers, a trendy flaw that NCsoft failed to deviate from, like they did with most other MMO conventions (thankful for that). Content is withheld that otherwise 10 years ago would have come with the box. This keeps players looking ahead, because they want the legendary armor they’ve been lead to grind for months.
You can obfuscate their intentions all day long, but its not out of a lack of time or resources that we have a season pass instead of an expansion, it is solely the result of a greedy business model.
It may be the result of a business model, but it’s hardly the result of a greedy one.
Unless you seriously believe that a company can make content faster than people can beat content, there’s nothing about this system that’s greedy. It’s called being competitive.
If Anet gave everything up front. Everything they could. Every single thing they had ready at the moment it was ready, and then people burned through it, they’d leave and go to other games that were trickling out their content keeping people playing.
They did it with the original Guild Wars. Every console game did it. Every MMO did it at one point, until developers discovered how to coaxingly milk players. I’m not sure why you’re advocating this new behavior.
The MARKET advocates the new behaviour; companies just respond to trends in the market. If people didn’t like the business model that GW2 has, it would struggle or not exist at all. What you see as ‘bad, greedy practice’ is actually what a significant portion of the market WANTS.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
As someone who’s just made a revenant and is learning to play it, I have to ask….. can you shed some light on what exactly you don’t like about it? You don’t offer any details in your post.
Hopefully it was a serious question because I will provide an actual answer to it.
From a dedicated Revenant. And a truly honest response.
The concept behind Revenants was the focus around energy management and not on cool downs. It does require skill to play for this matter. The issue is they arived out the gate as OP….. and there begins the problem.
The bumpy road most traveled by….. ANET…. Overnerf.
Q: So why do revenants hate what anet is doing?
- Adding cooldowns to a class that already needs to micromanage their energy, their elites, their skill rotation and their surrounding. This also goes directly against what we were told about the revenant. That there would be very minimal cool downs.
- Nerfing boons/buffs that are directly related to a revenants elite. (Quickness, Energy)
- Nerfing the only elites the rev get use out of without looking into the most unused ones. And buffing those (Ventari & Jalace).
- This one is quite shocking: because this one alone has basically made the Rev Glint useless.
- Note: Revenants is one of the top classes to apply multiple boons both to themselves & teammates.
- Note: Revenants greatest weakness is the lack of condi removal. In fact they are the worst class to remove condis.
- Balance patch: Giving a condi heavy class (Necro) the ability to convert boons in to conditions
- Balance patch: Nerfing the strongest and only useful heal Revenants have.
Additional nerfs that actually hurt revenant without taking the class into account. (Quickness, Sigil of Energy, rune of durability)
Trying not make assumptions, but it was a overnerf based on stats alone.
I personally do not hate the Revenant, but I do hate having put my heart and soul into several classes just to watch them turn into mush based on a communities QQ level.
As a result I quit GW2. I was curious what this patch would bring.
So obviously, you are wrong. Anet intends for CDs to be a ‘thing’ on Revs, even WITH energy management.
Edit: they had 3 years worth to learn from, 3 beta weekends, and then several more patches (of which we barely got any fixes).
Revenant shouldn’t be this non-functional at this stage.Didn’t you mean 2 bwes? After all “we are in a good spot”.
I won’t debate with you, but NO one with a reasonable expectation will think that 2 BWE’s will result in a balanced class at release.
Like I said, if that was the whole point, Revs would have become more like a Theif initiative management system. If that was the case, I suspect they would be even HARDER to balance than the energy management system, based on how much Anet struggles with Thieves. Minimal CD’s are in a practical sense, non-existent CD’s. When I can set my Auto on Hammer to #2, THAT is a problem.
So recognize this; the smaller the CD’s, the more like Thieves Reves look. I get it, everything is a nerf until you can see three years down the road that nerf NEEDED to happen to get there.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
As someone who’s just made a revenant and is learning to play it, I have to ask….. can you shed some light on what exactly you don’t like about it? You don’t offer any details in your post.
Hopefully it was a serious question because I will provide an actual answer to it.
From a dedicated Revenant. And a truly honest response.
The concept behind Revenants was the focus around energy management and not on cool downs. It does require skill to play for this matter. The issue is they arived out the gate as OP….. and there begins the problem.
The bumpy road most traveled by….. ANET…. Overnerf.
Q: So why do revenants hate what anet is doing?
- Adding cooldowns to a class that already needs to micromanage their energy, their elites, their skill rotation and their surrounding. This also goes directly against what we were told about the revenant. That there would be very minimal cool downs.
- Nerfing boons/buffs that are directly related to a revenants elite. (Quickness, Energy)
- Nerfing the only elites the rev get use out of without looking into the most unused ones. And buffing those (Ventari & Jalace).
Just because Rev’s focus on Energy Management does not ‘free’ them of the burden of CD’s … In fact, if the premise of your argument was correct, they would be more like an initiative mechanic like thieves
So obviously, you are wrong. Anet intends for CDs to be a ‘thing’ on Revs, even WITH energy management.
Problem with Rev is that it’s new … it hasn’t been around for 3 years to get the polish. Hell, even after three years some classes are still getting polished. Now people expect Revs, after ONE round of balancing, to come out like there is nothing wrong with the class? These threads just confirm one thing; MMO players have MUCH to learn about class development, need a good dose of humility and a sprinkle of reason.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
You must be new to MMOs. I think you should go look at WoW’s forums. Or Archeage. Or anyone for that matter.
Active MMOs all have forums that read just like this one.
Point 1. That doesn’t mean most people are unsatisfied. It means a lot of people who are unsatisfied complain.
Let’s say we see 10,000 people complaining and there are half a million players (clue we haevn’t seen close to 10,000 people complaining). Also some who complain are just trolls, I know because they’ve admitted to me that the only reason they complain is to rile up fan boys.
When you have a million people together a bunch of them are going to be dissatisfied and they’ll complain. It means very little unless a majority are complaining about something. But it’s only really bad press if it’s a) reasonable and b) not happening the MMO forum for every successful MMO.
Point 2. A lot of the things people complain about are handled quickly. However some things people complain about are simply not going to change, no matter how many complaints. For example, when someone nerfs a profession, someone is going to complain that it’s not fair, whether it’s fair or not. Most people are actually reasonable. Most people know that certain professions needed a nerf.
Point 3. Anet is a company comprised of over 300 people. Those 300 people work a lot of hours to bring a program. But when you have that many people all working on different projects, sometimes things fall through the cracks. That’s because people aren’t perfect. They make mistakes. When I ran a store, I made thousands of decisions every week…a few dozen of them were bound to be wrong. It’s not reasonable to expect that mistakes won’t happen, and it’s even less reasonable to believe they can be fixed quickly, particularly if you’re talking about programming mistakes. These games are far more complex than most people think they are.
Point 4. None of us really know how many people by percentage are unhappy with the game, but of the unhappy people, they’re all complaining about disparate things. Which people do you listen to? I know for a fact Anet has made some changes to the game based on what people were saying. Are you suggesting they make a thousand changes to the game all at once? What would that do to their code.
Seriously. Go spend some time on the official forums of other MMORPGs. This is pretty much the norm. And the bigger the game gets, the more attention it gets, and the more people tend to complain.
The happy people? They’re playing the game. They have very little reason to be here.
I’m just looking for some concrete data. Almost everyone I talk to is dissapointed in things.
Maybe because not everything in an MMO as complex as this one satisfies every whim of each player you have talked to?
The assumptions you presented in your original post are bad.
Anet must be doing good enough to make GW2, serve it for 3 years and make an expansion …
I don’t get the complaint … almost every MMO you will play will have things you like and don’t so if you feel cheated because of the few you don’t, MMO’s are clearly not your bag. Furthermore, from how you describe it, it does sound to me like you got your value from HoT; a pay structure like this game is some of the cheapest entertainment you can have and many of the features do cross over to core game.
The main issue with HoT is the scheduled meta maps; it doesn’t kill GW2 for me, but in more extreme cases, I’ve left other games because of similar features. I don’t hate it, but I certainly have little success completing meta HoT maps on the weekdays as a casual player. Otherwise, HoT is win.
Sounds to me like you’re just not willing to use the tools you already have. There is actually quite a bit of strategy needed when dealing with OW HoT mobs because most of them have unique tricks they pull on you. Not sure what profession you are struggling with but very few I have run through VB lack the tools needed to progress.
I guess Guardian is your struggle? DH will solve that if you have it. If you don’t, you simply need to know what the mobs tricks are and what you have to deal with it. Frankly, the skills you are requesting would make HoT easy mode; an AOE stun? pulls and agro pulls? No thanks.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
Yup, retal is a weakness for FT but you can think of weaknesses for all kinds of other things as well but at least this weakness has a counter … just swap out of your FT until the retal is gone. The cool thing is that most of your traits still work without using FT.
Hello,
last time I played level 75+ mobs was dropping 35-55 copper, is this still same?
Only reason I stopped playing GW2 because there’s no any reliable income source in any map. I mean, of course there will be challenge to collect in game currency, but the way I played a year ago was too hard, and I ended up playing with Trading Post prices , as a result I almost lost all my gold. And obviously having around 15g will not help me at all. They also killed all the trains
Thanks in advance
If you just want gold to fall from mobs and think that’s going to make you wealthy, GW2 is not the game for you. Also, the game doesn’t require you to farm gold to equip yourself in a reasonable manner to play it, even in the endgame.
What is best is not the only factor in making teams for any content, nor does it say that Guardian/DH is bad either.
I get I’m intruding on your thread but what I’m talking about is true and Anet knows it as well. Sword and Hammer play were not the same quality or level of complexity/difficulty as what you can get from other more developed classes. That simply doesn’t bode well for a new class that Anet SHOULD have applied everything they learned from the other 8 classes in the last 3 years to develop.
There are always a bunch of things you can do for this and that to play smart. That doesn’t mean the old sword and hammer skills were reasonable options in the first place.
I mean, are you actually defending a 2 second cooldown on Hammer 2? I REALLY hope not. That was just ridiculous.
Camping auto on sword was crap and so was setting my auto to Hammer #2. Nerf welcomed … and anyone that wants interesting gameplay from what is supposed to be an exciting class would agree.
How does one decide the standard for interesting game-play?
I’m pretty sure Anet does that. I’m certainly not going to believe that anyone’s standard for interesting gameplay is limited to pressing 1 … OR 2. It’s the same problem with Guardian Hammer Auto … not interesting, and NEEDS to be rethought.
Ironically, these are exactly the things that people WANT nerfed when they don’t have variety in weapon options. Think about that.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
I’m not saying AA’s can’t be strong or that other changes aren’t questionable. I’m saying that as it was, the sword and hammer combo gave unimaginative, boring and stupid gameplay for a new class that’s intended to maintain player interest.
No one is going to admit it but in a year from now, when you actually have reasons to play other weapons, you MIGHT want to think back to this point to when this change happened and how it affected that.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
Camping auto on sword was crap and so was setting my auto to Hammer #2. Nerf welcomed … and anyone that wants interesting gameplay from what is supposed to be an exciting class would agree.