@Hydeaut & Oxstar
They were too strong for Anet.
So you have the choice of :
10 points traits
20 second global cooldown + individual cooldown
SE and Grenade Barrage remove for something weaker.
Still lackluster 30 point tools trait.or
30 points traits
individual cooldown
All KR effect stay the same.
Having a good GM trait for once.I choice the second choice anytime. Sure you can keep it at 10 point and nerf it, but will your “options” still be viable?
Too strong? The only useful one was double super elixir – The rest were pretty much USELESS. The only thing ANet achieved is to make it harder for us to do the same.
I wouldn´t like kit refinement becoming a GM trait – fully traiting into a kit and putting 30 points into tools would limit my options to much.
I agree.
If someone miss you he was just clumsy and you were lucky. But to evade or block you need to be aware of the incoming threat, I.E you have spotted the thief, so it makes perfect sense.
If there were classes that could just debunk bunkers (hah!) what would be the point of having bunkers at all? So you’re telling me that thieves should do full damage even if I hold my gear shield up?
THERE IS NO MIDDLE FINGER BIG ENOUGH!
Nope. The post specifically said “some % of damage, assigned on an ability by ability basis not just some blanket number for all abilities, probably very low for most abilitites”
The point wasn’t to completely neutralize bunkers – it was about forcing bunkers to fight a thief different than they would fight a warrior – force them to choose strengths and weaknesses, adopt a different playstyle, etc…
That’s already what I have to do as an engineer… I can’t just stand and tank a glass thief, no bunkers can do that, I can however block, evade, and push away, and heal up rapidly. Does that make me a Healgineer and a Rollgineer rather than a bunker? Well, YOLO!
Yes, and let’s also be able to upgrade turrets by hitting them with our wrench.
No, I’m serious.
well, we may be able to do it more often, but we are also more vulnerable while we do it. it is simply less powerful than stability and invuln stomps. things like the guardian down ability for instance still work on us while doing a stealth stomp. also, we may be invisible but most thieves are burst thieves and therefore quite squishy. any attacks on where we obviously are when we try it can quite often end with a downed thief showing up 3-4 seconds later instead of a dead ally. also, in the next major patch they have claimed that they will make it so that exiting stealth in any way will give revealed, so we will be vulnerable after doing it. also, CnD is 6 initiative, which is half of our base resource pool. even if traited to refund 2 initiative on stealth it is still 1/3 of it. we are burning potential damage, utility, or mobility for the security to stomp without a near certain chance of death in a group fight.
In other words, you won’t be able to hit C&D, heal up, hit it right away again, repeat? Well, good thing that I had my fun with this while it lasted.
If this thread same person who starte the “Class ain’t bad, you’re just lazy?”
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Class-ain-t-bad-you-re-just-lazy/Are you bi-polar or something? In that thread you claim Eng is best class out there and in this one saying we are most broken. I am so confused.
I never ssaid Engineer is the best class, PROJECT MUCH? I merly said they can compare.
And yes, Engineer have a lot of bugs with their skills. Would they be OP if I could snap my fingers and fix all of them? That’s like my right hand on a sunday evening, beats the hell out of me! I guess it’s a balancing act like everything else, and I wouldn’t claim to know how to balance it out, which I don’t either by simply pointing out that there is more work to do here.
It’s 3s of stealth, 4 if traited, not 5. Anyways you might as well count it as a meager class-feature not that it is particularly impactful. As a result of how thief durability, you can just nuke your team-mates body and the thief will then have to pop a utility like everybody else or be downed trying to stomp.
Nukes that could have won another fight around the corner, nice…
Okay, simply put, isn’t it a BIT too hard to catch a thief running away? With “12 seconds stealth” they cover more distance unnoticed in a shorter time than any other class, and even warriors seem to struggle with getting them.
Then there is the blinding powder, it makes sense that it should blind melle attackers, but why are ranged attackers blinded? Does the projectile form some sort of dark-connecting blindness link or something?
Not sure how to balance this out, but I feel Thief is way too slippery atm.I play a thief, and I can get into way more trouble and get away with it pretty easily.
I wish my ele could do that. It’s unfair to complain about classes while choosing to ignore others that do the same but 200x better.
I have a thief as well, and I agree. This is about the elementalist however, and for some reason thieves don’t FEEL as slippery, maybe because most of them overestimate their stealth damage and try to win against impossible odds?
I know, this may be beating a dead horse, but I feel it deserves more scrutiny.
Every class has some form of stomper skill. Thieves however need only hit cloack & dagger ONCE and BOOM, 5 secs of stealth – Well enough to stomp. What sits a bit wrong with me, and I suspect others as well, is that they can do it so frequently while the other classes have to fall back on lengthy cooldowns. Engineers have elixir S, Elementalists have mist form, Rangers have Fight together as one, etc. Thief though? One skills that has no CD whatsoever. They don’t even need to use a utility slot for it, unlike the rest of us.
So how does one interpret this? Should it just be considered a class feature? Does the thief really need class specific features like that, considering they are pretty strong already? I’m not so sure. What do you guys think?
If there were classes that could just debunk bunkers (hah!) what would be the point of having bunkers at all? So you’re telling me that thieves should do full damage even if I hold my gear shield up?
THERE IS NO MIDDLE FINGER BIG ENOUGH!
Engineer forums, more so than other Profession forums seem to have larger number of hostility towards the designers.
Not entierly without reason.
But I feel that working with the designers would increase the effectiveness of communication with whatever developer may be perusing the forums at the time.
True, but they have to give a little for this relationship to work.
Okay, simply put, isn’t it a BIT too hard to catch an elementalist running away? With “Ride the lightning” they cover more distance in a shorter time than any other class, and even thieves seem to struggle with getting them.
Then there is the chill aura, it makes sense that it should slow melle attackers, but why are ranged attackers slowed? Does the projectile form some sort of cold-connecting invisible link or something?
Not sure how to balance this out, but I feel Ele is way too slippery atm.
I think you should look up the word “objective” since I don’t think it means what you think it means. But I’ll say it, it means from my point of view.
No, “objective” means the exact opposite from what you think, smart-kitten.
Fine. Do you see me being rude to YOU about this?
Leave please.
Racial skills are generally worthless because the devs wanted to make all races equal, and therefore made racial skills generally either useless or many times inferior to general skills.
From my experience – a character that looks good, has good lines and looks good in armour is a character I’m likely to play and put time in. Which is why I have 3 level 80 asuras. I know other people pick races based on their lore or looks or whatever, I have never met anyone picking a race for it’s vastly kitten racial skills.
Sorry, Engineers everywhere of every race can’t hear you over the sound of all their GADGETS! Being a charr gives you an unload on your toolbelt, being a norn gives you an egg that you can eat for buffs, etc
Ease off jerks, he just asked the question, he didn’t say he’d actually do it. Don’t be so bloody stupid.
>implying you all wouldn’t take 200+ gold from the guild you barely know
His response later in thread would imply otherwise.
Really? I don’t doubt a lot of people would be scummy enough to do it, but I sure wouldn’t.
Also to the mod who moved this thread, Engineer was just an EXAMPLE, not the main topic of the thread – It really has no business being in the Engineer board – And changing my thread title was uncalled for as well. What’s wrong with you man?
PS: If they indeed are fixing bugs in the shadows while also promoting item shop then whoppety freaking do, it would just be nice if they accounced it as much as they accounce their “come buy this and that for 20% off for 3 days”.
I don’t get what you want. You want them to make big advertisements saying “Come buy the game as now we have fixed all the bugs!”
They don’t need to advertise themselves if they have good development.
Also I meant to say “announced” but typo’d.
(edited by Oxstar.7643)
Wholly objective? More like wholly subjective
“It all smells of a blatant moneygrab, and while I understand that you need money, trying to promote the item shop will not make the game BETTER”
You lost me there. So you’re telling me that you want a game to be 100% free of bugs before they start promoting items that generate revenue for them.
How exactly is that going to work?
Simple. They won’t have the money for proper development if they don’t try to go for increasing profit in the long run. A game that is smooth and where bugs are being stomped out shows they care about the little details as well, and that’s something people very much appriciate. Ignoring them and instead trying to cashcow the item shop will maybe make them some money in the SHORT term, but it won’t be long until people catch on and players start dropping out – Like they seem to be doing already.
Also, I think you should look up the word “objective” since I don’t think it means what you think it means. But I’ll say it, it means from my point of view.
PS: If they indeed are fixing bugs in the shadows while also promoting item shop then whoppety freaking do, it would just be noce if they accounced it as much as they accounce their “come buy this and that for 20% off for 3 days”.
You must be new to games and mmos because there is NO game out there with all bugs stomped out. MMOs are the most complicated gaming genre out there. There will always be bugs simply due to time and effficiency constraints.
Reasonable, veteran gamers understand this. As long as there are no gamebreaking bugs that prevent you from starting and playing the game, it’s fine.
You are also completing ignoring that there are different departments that handle different things. They have the QA team, the dev team, the team responsible for handling art, economy, customer service, gem shop.
And no, you are not objective, you just like to think what you are saying is true when instead it’s all subjective.
You must be new to games and mmos because there is NO game out there with all bugs stomped out. MMOs are the most complicated gaming genre out there. There will always be bugs simply due to time and effficiency constraints.
Of course, but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try to fix as many as you can.
Reasonable, veteran gamers understand this. As long as there are no gamebreaking bugs that prevent you from starting and playing the game, it’s fine.
That’s not the case however, there’s bugs preventing some skills from working as intended. And when I say intended I base it on the tooltip descriptions.
You are also completing ignoring that there are different departments that handle different things. They have the QA team, the dev team, the team responsible for handling art, economy, customer service, gem shop.
So just because I don’t mention it means I don’t acknowledge it? What a weird reality you live in. Item shops does nothing to improve the game itself, and that should always come first, which is the entierty of my point.
And no, you are not objective, you just like to think what you are saying is true when instead it’s all subjective.
It’s true to ME, duh. I’ve never said I’m right and everyonr who disagree are wrong, don’t be so dense.
Now that we got you out of the way, make room for the sort of feedback that leads somewhere positive thank you.
Ease off jerks, he just asked the question, he didn’t say he’d actually do it. Don’t be so bloody stupid.
Wholly objective? More like wholly subjective
“It all smells of a blatant moneygrab, and while I understand that you need money, trying to promote the item shop will not make the game BETTER”
You lost me there. So you’re telling me that you want a game to be 100% free of bugs before they start promoting items that generate revenue for them.
How exactly is that going to work?
Simple. They won’t have the money for proper development if they don’t try to go for increasing profit in the long run. A game that is smooth and where bugs are being stomped out shows they care about the little details as well, and that’s something people very much appriciate. Ignoring them and instead trying to cashcow the item shop will maybe make them some money in the SHORT term, but it won’t be long until people catch on and players start dropping out – Like they seem to be doing already.
Also, I think you should look up the word “objective” since I don’t think it means what you think it means. But I’ll say it, it means from my point of view.
PS: If they indeed are fixing bugs in the shadows while also promoting item shop then whoppety freaking do, it would just be nice if they accounced it as much as they accounce their “come buy this and that for 20% off for 3 days”.
(edited by Oxstar.7643)
Glad to have you around!
Lemme tell you something, don’s listen to anyone who says this class is underpowered – It’s not, it just requires a mindset and playstyle that breaks away from the streamlines of the other classes.
I think it makes perfect sense to have one class dev playing every class, if we have two thief devs one of them should switch to engineer – Not having at least one for every class is something I can only view as blatant slacking from the developers and deliberate slighting of the class that needs the most work.
ENGINEERS UNITE! I wish there were an engineer only guild.
Seeing NCsoft who, may I remind you, are Asian developers choosing to not put something Asian in GW2 is quite the self realisation from their side, because let’s face it, asians are a sicking stereotype in todays games – I’ve had it down my throat with all the japanese/chinese/korean ripoff fantasy races in games everywhere. It’s too much too many times. Isn’t there some other GW country, continent, whatever, around other than Tyria and Cantha?
When you make a game. a certain order is required. It’s worth remembering that every aspect is equally important because all of them are important in someones eyes, and I really hope you agree when I say we’re all equally important. A good example would be the Engineer – It’s the class you developed last, and, in most peoples opinion, the class that you have spent the least time trying to perfect. It makes perfect sense to put more class focus on Engineer than the other classes because that’s the one that needs most work – That’s not what’s happening though. Instead you focus on classes much closer to being 100% functional while also ignoring a lot of bugs for the sake of catering to the most represented classes – That’s the impression I get anyways. It all smells of a blatant moneygrab, and while I understand that you need money, trying to promote the item shop will not make the game BETTER. A game that is steadily improving attracts more customers and results in more income.
You see, people actually look at your performance and development as a whole, and if you start slighting parts of it instead of trying to divide your efforts according to where there is more need to do so, you lose favor in the eyes of the consumers. I’m going to assume you’re smart enough, ArenaNet, to understand that a gleaming gem of a game is the product of working together with the customers, we paid and we still pay your bills – Remember that. But that gem is full of nicks and cuts in the edges, and we could chisel all those out together – Start looking into bugs when we tell you we find them, let us test your products, I.E patches before you release them, simply put, include US into the process. It’s worth remembering that taking a brisk step forward is pointless if you don’t have the footing to avoid falling over when you set your foot down. Sure, your step was impressive and brave, but you still fell over and people don’t want to see that.
Bear in mind that these opinions are wholly objective and intended to give helpful feedback.
As an Engineer I say YES, since we are quite flexible and competent underwater. I’d also expect an Engisub to have some naval fights with.
It is worth mentioning that if you decide to use bombs, tools actually has a grandmaster trait that heals you, which gives you little more survivability.
Now, I don’t know about you, but I’m a Kitgineer, so fast switching between kits is a neccessity to me. But really, the only effect I feel that I benefit from is the elixirgun. The rest are way too situational to be reliable. But if Engineer is a class that is all about quick swapping between kits, is not having this internal CD, forcing us to waste a kit refinment on a useless effect, just punishing the engineer for being flexible? It makes no sense.
I think we should either lose the cooldown or have the option to turn refinment effects off from weapons individually. Because hay, let’s make the Engineer a little bit more flexible, that’s our creed anyways, to be flexible.
Kits are superior to conjured weapons in every way. Engineer uses machines, and yes, they are not trained warriors, that’s the whole point. It’s flexibility vs training, the same scenario you’d get in a thief vs assassin scenario. It takes skill to have such a great seamless flexibility over so many different things, and that’s a very valuble skill in itself. A wrench can cave a skull in as well as any mace, for example.
As for you feeling Engineer fighting is awkward and subpar, I have three words for you: Learn to play. It’s jack of all trade vs specialist and the former will win if skilled since he has no real weaknesses to exploit.
Incidentally, does weapon stats apply to kits now?
I’ll give you a reason. There are people who wants it, and if they can have it without the developers having to give something up for it there is no reason why they shouldn’t. Bear in mind that it would exist as an alternative, not something mandatory.
Because a developer that can cater to as many as possibly by adding more flavors without making any of the older flavors less tastier is a professional developer.
And like I said, it’s about convenience, that’s why we should have an arena – There are also those of us, like me, who are tired of always being ganked and would like to have some control over the cirumstances sometimes. There really is no reason at all not to and can only lead to more people feeling satisfied, done right.
And it’s heads!!! I also agree with what O kitten aying if what he is saying is he doesn’t want gw2 to become a wow killer cause that means all the drama kittens and kids will swamp on gw2 and destroy our “overall” good community.
That, and they’d screw things over with their constant cries for nerfs since GW2 actually tries hard to kick you in the balls and rub it in your face that you failed – Unlike WoW where everything is coated in bubblewrap.
Danananananananana BATMAN!
Uhm, we… can? Weapon kits… Yes they take a skill slot up, but we get a lot more extra skills and thus more flexibility than the other classes. And the CD on kits is WAY lower than a regular weapon swap, plus sigils and runes procc both on swap to and swap from – I think it’s a fair tradeoff.
We have strengths? I thought the design principle for the Eng is that it doesn’t have any strengths but makes up for that with lots of flexibility.
Back on topic, it does sound ominously like Grenades could get nerfed. Hopefully the nerf won’t affect FT, given they’ve just buffed it and its still a little under-whelming.
It is? I used it to toast mesmers in wvwvw, and I didn’t have juggernaught or deadly mixture – Now if I had both, imagine.
Don’t forget the flamethrower. Though technically I don’t think it’s an aoe weapon. Area of Effect, indeed meaning an area, but is most commonly refers to skills hitting a 360 area – Flame jet hits in a cone.
I think the sad truth is that Engineer is a high difficulty high reward class. It’s hard to become good but when you become good you’ve mastered so many different tactics so your foe won’t be able to adapt. Thieves can be at the top of their game simply by doing a backstab followed by a steal and some heartseekers.
As an Engineer I can tell you this very seldom kills me in a legit one on one – Ganks kills us all.
So, when people can’t reach that sweet spot where you don’t do awesome but great with engineer with as little effort as with the other classes, they think the class is bad.
Funny thing is that I kick the holyness out of the said classes in wvwwv – That might not be saying much but surely there must be at least a few who are also lvl 80 and clad in all exotics?
I guess the Engineers are people who despise the majority and it’s mainstream selection and take pleasure in showing them that the unorthodox choice can be just as kick@ss and deadly as the more out-beaten classes.
That said, it’s refreshing with stuff like dagger wielding magicans and gun tooting warriors.
(edited by Oxstar.7643)
A game doesn’t even need to be a success to be considered successful: Diablo 3.
Anyway, even though GW2 will never be a “WoW killer” the game did bring a lot of fresh ideas to the MMO table. Credit where credit’s due…
It’s unfortunate that they alienated so many of their loyal following early on, firstly, by not sticking to their initial design philosophy and, secondly, by not seeming sure of the direction they actually want to take.
I suspect that it will take a company with more resources and experience (like Blizzard, for example) to take these ideas from GW2 and other recent titles and incorporate it into something that will become the “next WoW”.
Not Blizzard please, I don’t trust them anymore. There’s other people out there with money, like Activision, or NCsoft, or Valve.
Actually, let’s just give GW2 to Valve and let them remake it, ANet still get copyright money and Valve is awesome at making games, slow, but that’s because they take time to perfect it.
GW2 is a great game. That said, there are a few things that I think were overlooked in the name of breaking with the old. Some things have been around for a long time for good reasons. So I’d like to give my take on what we should have had from day one and that there is every reason to add.
The first is, not entierly unexpected, duels. Now, while randomly dueling strangers might go too much against the “We want player encounters to be nothing but positive” policy, there is no reason to not have an arena for one on one or two on two etc. This could be given modes such as free for all or team fights or team fights with objectives, using an NPC to pair up people with the best level and gear rarity.
I mean, as it is now, to duel someone you need to go to heart of the mist, find a server, tell whoever you wanna duel to get there, while running the risk of people joining and interfering.
Let’s face it, it’s just not convenient. And convenience is what the world of today is all about.
The second is the lack of world pvp. And I don’t mean wvwvw, I mean actual possibility to go pk in the open world. To avoid drama and hate, there could be a function whiskering you to one of the du jour enemy realms, where you are given a limted time to raise hell. Add on an award system – You get points for each foe but if your actual level is too different to your foes actualy level (the real level, not whatever you downgrade to) then you get nothing. With the time limit you will be pressured into not trolling. You could also restrict this to pvp servers only so people will have a choice.
You would of course be able to go as a team, or bring npc’s to assist you – This seems like a golden chance to bring back heroes & henchmen.
There’s more that can be added, but these are the things that comes to mind. I think GW2 has a ton of world pvp potential – Just gotta work on it.
Wait, why would you want to be squishy in pvp but not in pve?
all this crit proc discussion while ignoring grenades.
its like.. idk… not having something to drink with your dinner.
why bother with pistol or rifle when grenades proc 3x as many crits?
Because rifle shots are mroe reliable, grenades are too easy to dodge and a closeup blunderbuss or jumpshot does more damage than a grenade throw anyways, not counting the toolbelt skill. Grenades are more about bleeds anyways.
lol that’s funny, and names might as well be funny instead of heavy and mighty, because I’m sure not the serious type.
The game was never going to become a WoW killer anyway. Not straight out of launch, at least.
What the people who were screaming ‘WoW-killer’ and the people saying ‘WoW has 9mil subs’ seemed to forget was that WoW didn’t start out with them numbers. They built up to them.
That being said, this game doesn’t need to be a WoW-killer to be a huge success.
EXACTLY!
In my eyes it stands out from the crowd in a good way.
Critical hit Engineer is amazing. I saw a video once of some guy doing 5k then 9k with one jumpshot and 3k’s with static discharges.
Yeah, warrior be doing 28k, but that’s with how many hits (with luck they’ll all connect) vs 2. I don’t know the build though =(
Bloodburns and Venomwuff?
GASP!
I think it’s safe by now to say that this game didn’t become a WoW killer.
But if you ask me, that’s better. WoW ultimately devolved into a drama infested place where everything fun and challenging got nerfed due to all the kids crying about how hard it is. I for one like the casual community and the fact that this game focuses skills and builds over gear. Yeah, raid to get gear then raid to get more gear. Un-fun-fun! Same thing with PvP, it’s just a gear race.
To quote Yahtzee Croshaw… “You don’t honestly care if your new crystal nethersword is going to clash with your elite boss clogs. It’s about the numbers. You want the items with the best numbers so you can use your numbers to decrease the enemy numbers until your numbers are the best in the land and all the other guilds flock to regard your numbers with jealous awe.”
If a bigwig game eventually becomes that sort of gear race then I’m glad that we’re not the majority because if we were that’s what it would become. Embrace this underdog of a game, it may have flaws but what game doesn’t, we’re slowly getting there.
And ofc there’s many more games where I can apply the same wisdom, the bottom line is, to heck with the majority.
(edited by Oxstar.7643)
As someone who have played Engineer since headstart…
You are worthy to be titled “Megagineer”.