Sorry for drawing false conclusions I guess… It just felt like you’d need a really good motive to not just drop a heated discussion about a game mode which you seem to have no interest in playing yourself. You say that we’re not thinking things through and that it wouldn’t work in practice, yet this is not what actually playing 2v2, 3v3 etc. in the Courtyard and elsewhere before its existence shows.
All I’m going to say is it’d be separated from Conquest, and if you haven’t already tried it, you have no room to argue against it and how “theoretically” it might not work when others have played it and can tell you those concerns need not apply, and any other issues can be fixed with basic arena rules.
He has probably played in the Courtyard quite a bit, otherwise it would indeed be very odd to make the argument that this absolutely doesn’t work.
It will never work in the same ranked system as Conquest, it wont. If you want ranked TDM you need to look at making a totally separate que system for TDM – I think this is the fourth time I’ve had to say it to you, so I really want you to absorb the information now.
So this is why you’re so sour about this? I’ll just quote my own, old answer here:
If you don’t like it don’t play it is precisely what we have now. I don’t like it and I don’t play it, there’s no reason given to put it into rated play forcing people who don’t like it to play it.
Missed this bit. No-one’s talking about forcing people to play this. It’s completely bonkers to put it in the same SoloQ or TeamQ as Conquest.
I don’t think anyone is arguing that it’s a good idea to not have this in a separated ranked queue. Might have misunderstood you as this might not be your issue with all this.
Hmm…so the argument is that TDM isn’t viable because it’s so obvious that it’s imbalanced.
…but no one can agree on how it’s imbalanced.
Something doesn’t add up, lol. But, I guess that’s what happens when you have people arguing about a “dominating meta” 2 days after a balance patch.
Capture point, and TDM is imba.. People want to complain.. Sucks because we finally have variety, now a bunch of kittens (censored myself) decide that NOTHING SHOULD EVER CHANGE! I’ve been waiting for variety since a month after game release. These people need to shut the kittens(did it again!) up.
Really there are only two people in this thread that actually seem to be against TDM, though it’s almost exclusively azuze that’s being… passionate about it.
If you don’t WANT to do it, then don’t? It’s a pretty simple concept…
That’s the issue going around, OP is asking for ranked play. People can TDM right now, that’s a pretty simple concept tbh and one you would have come across all on your own if you had, I don’t know…read?
You can put whatever rules into your tournies you want to balance it, they need it. But a TDM in ranked play – would you even suggest that Anet would put in enough barriers to stop cheese plays like you have suggested? Absolutely not.
What’s your actual problem with this game mode? You seem determine that it just won’t work at all. A lot of people on this thread argues against you and really seem to enjoy it and don’t really seem to be all that worried about the potential issues that you’ve pointed out.
Are you perhaps afraid that if this Game mode gets into ranked that it somehow will affect Conquest? What could actually affect you negatively here?
The leveling process might be a tad to long.
I think it would be a good idea to make sub-80s tougher in dungeons (and maybe 80s more fragile, hurrhurr perhaps-bring-something-in-addition-to-zerker)
That’s the big issues I find with the leveling system. Otherwise it’s really good and a big part/feature of the game.
After almost 2 years of the game being out, i think we all really expected new game modes. TDM should honestly be one they implement. After seeing the immense success of courtyard, it would be in Anet’s best interest to create a new mode along with several new maps for a TDM mode….
It is weird that it has been so long with only one Game mode. . . If they keep the new one it’ll be quite a refreshing contrast to Conquest.
What in your adequate view makes you believe that you know anything about this topic?
I’d like to know before I make judgments on who should be able to comment on pvp matters, particularly given the quality of people brought in since the patch
Really don’t want to be rude or anything, but I think we should stop trying to convince you of anything since it seems impossible and doesn’t takes the thread anywhere.
If you genuinely believe that insta-gib isn’t a thing in GW2, you haven’t played much organiised group pvp. …
Without the secondary objective of points to capture the way to win would be camping SR until someone makes a mistake. …
I didn’t say that; I’m an Elementalist, so I’ve seen my fair share of these kinds of builds. What I don’t think you’re considering is the fact that you’re 3 people against 3 people: You’ll be dead face down in the mud if you’re running such cheesy builds.
——-
Yet that isn’t happening to my knowledge in the Courtyard. Neither has it happened in any Team Deathmatch event that I’ve watched in the past.
In addition, (and I repeat) if this actually would be something of an issue, there are numerous ways of very easily dealing with it for ANet.
If you don’t like it don’t play it is precisely what we have now. I don’t like it and I don’t play it, there’s no reason given to put it into rated play forcing people who don’t like it to play it.
Missed this bit. No-one’s talking about forcing people to play this. It’s completely bonkers to put it in the same SoloQ or TeamQ as Conquest. The reasons for implementing this map for real are strong and it doesn’t have to affect you in any way; We have the base for this game mode and it appears like a ton of people are enjoying very much!
People where already making CAs for Dueling and actual “Team elimination” event long before this map.
I swear if you people ruin TDM for me, I’m going to be kittened. So many people have quit because of the lack of diversity in PvP (myself included) and now that they’re testing it, all of the people who have never played PvP in their life (and some that have) are saying that it doesn’t work because their side gets camped.
~
I’ve had far more fun times in the short lived (so far) TDM as I have in Point Cap. And the fact that All of the TDM maps are maxed out shows its popularity. It works, and people love it.
Great ideas! I especially agree with the last bit; This new map is the most fun I’ve had in GW2 – Just think of how amazing that is with a game mode that’s technically in a rough beta.
Guys, I agree that TDM is a really great game mode. But I think that anet shouldn’t build PvP around TDM now. I think TDM is just like RA/TA in GW1, which was lot of fun. But there should be a game mode with more depth.
Just build maps with additional objectives like guild lords and mobs for boosts. In the end, it is quite similar to TDM (since most of time you just fight XvsX) but it has a tactical component.
The thing that people seem to forget is that when you focus entirely on the actual
Player> vs <Player combat, the profession and combat mechanics gains a whole lot more weight. I don’t think that it’s all that baffling to argue that the interplay between ~17-29 skills (with additional important traits to consider) per player might actually be complex and with very much depth. And I think you have to consider all those things when playing in a game mode like this much more, and you play with perhaps 4 or 6 people total.
I don’t really see any good examples of how a TDM game mode wouldn’t work; If you don’t like it, don’t play it.
Examples;
Perma stealth
Spamming fight resets til you win
Insta-gib
Unkillable bunkerIf you don’t like it don’t play it is precisely what we have now. I don’t like it and I don’t play it, there’s no reason given to put it into rated play forcing people who don’t like it to play it.
What’s the actual over-powered part for building around permanent stealth? If it actually turns out to be something of a problem (which I have never seen in any 3v3s I’ve witnessed, and not either in the Courtyard), just balance it out; Perhaps make revealed a bit longer (perhaps after a certain amount of time), or go for Blizzards solution to the problems with the Crystals.
Insta-gib, really? Super glass when matched against several other people head-on? Good luck with that, don’t think it’s all that viable though.
This is a viable concern I think. Nothing that would make the entire game mode un-doable by any stretch of the imagination, definitely not.
It feels like you’re trying very hard to not make this sound like a really good idea.
Anet had a huge opportunity in Custom Arenas to allow the players to spend time making the game modes they want and testing them out.
If they would have given players tons of control (limiting abilities -like the 90 second limit above-, setting game conditions, spawn points, etc) they could have spent all the time making games and then proving what would have worked.
Instead, they charged people for hotjoin with almost no customization. I promise, TDM would have shown up almost immediately and had tons of players playing it.
All of the complaints listed about TDM are valid concerns, however, they ALL exist currently in conquest…so, there’s that.
That’s a lovely idea! You’d probably have to give up progression to unlock some of these features, but it could be a viable platform for the playerbase to create their own game modes! Would be awfully time consuming to implement that kind of freedom though. Perhaps you meant it to be a bit simpler though.
Some ults certainly would. Class mechanics just aren’t balanced around TDM tactics.
TDM would force out any class that doesn’t have a hard [read: un-counterable] defensive cooldown, otherwise you’d just be zerged down in a second from stealth burst, stability stomped and the match is over.
TDM works in games like WoW because they have healers who can cover people without defences of their own, stealth has clear counters and is prevented from being abused there is mana to stop it going on endlessly and they don’t have a downstate.
TDM would just be a playground for already cheesy specs
When I played TDM (Arena) in WoW, every single one of my friends and guildies always preferred to play without any healers whatsoever. Wouldn’t happen in 3v3 or 5v5 because of how the game was designed though, but in 2v2 it was entirely viable to play without healers and it was the most fun – And that’s with a game that’s designed around the holy trinity; GW2 has a big advantage here.
I don’t really see any good examples of how a TDM game mode wouldn’t work; If you don’t like it, don’t play it. I do believe that there’s a big number of players that would very much like this to be a thing (somewhat based on the wide support that ~this concept had in the thread started by ANet discussing possible game modes) .
I strongly believe that it should be played with very small teamsizes (2-4 i.e.) and that there should be a very finite amount of respawns available, if any.
By the way, I’m ridiculously happy about the new map, however loosely implemented it is.
Seems like people just forgot to take of their tin-foil hats, really.
Shouldn’t be happening, would be an enormous miss if it was. Thus very unlikely.
Hm, seems fine to me in practice.
I think only way to get items from pvp is from box. I am 80. U say boxes drop only your lvl items. I got 76 item-lvl from box. You say player can get lower lvl item only from mob.
They don’t though. I get a lot of items that are beneath my level in PvE. I.e. I was killing stuff in Queensdale yesterday with one of my 80s and got armor and weapons from level ~76-80
I really enjoy the new map as well. Actually I think it’s the best fun I’ve had in the game since the second beta test.
If it is to be implemented in a separate SoloQ and TeamQ (which I really, really hope it will) I think that it has to be done without respawns and with very small teamsizes.
~~~~
Anyway – I still want Skyhammer removed.
- Collero
Point 1- Doesn’t work if you are trying to cap the point
Point 2- You know they can stealth after you can see them right? Doesn’t work
Point 3- Gotta roll a necro? Doesn’t work
Point 4- So Ill use randomly stability (because you can’t actually see them) in hopes they waste their pull? Doesn’t Work. Yeah OE, phantaram etc, etc… are all bad players, you just happen to be the best, teach us master..
Point5- So I gotta have pets? Doesnt’ work
Point 6- Get off you high horse, people getting free kills on a map, isn’t in any way competitive since not everyone can do it, “muh positioning” lol…
In the end, fairly much everyone seem to be in agreement with the idea that Skyhammer shouldn’t be in SoloQ
Amulets shouldn’t cost anything!
I think the rest given examples are just fine, you don’t need them really. Progression in PvP is likely enjoyable for many, as long as they keep it fair. This is probably just the start though; More traits and stuff are to be released. I can definitely see the appeal of coming as a newbie to sPvP with this new progression system.
TDM is not a supported game mode, at least not yet. We are watching the how community responds to the format, and then we’ll go from there.
Turn off the respawn. “Farming” an already won game is pointless in spvp.
Why have you guys not explored annihilation mode?
Catch the drift?
Absolutely love the new map by the way. Best thing ever.
I haven’t been able to play the map yet. I think to test it out a bit better it should be put in the solo queue rotation.
That way, we will really know if people hate it.
Yeah, they should definitely have it as it is for a while to test it properly. And it must be in a separate Solo Queue; If someone doesn’t like the map, they should not be forced to play it. Same goes with the Conquest maps.
i have not really played this map much in public servers, but, are there any cases of spawn camping?
I have experienced this, but only on maps with a few more players. And they stop if you just tell them to in map chat.
I like skyhammer a lot, but I definitely don’t think the map does much but subtract a lot from SoloQ.
It’s really good in Custom arenas though! I can still enjoy it there without having other people to suffer for it, which clearly is not the case in SoloQ.
They can add fractals to the reward tracks, to cover all ‘pve’ bases. But then they should focus on pvp exclusive skins.
^This! I think that Fractal skins should be a PvE thing and that they should make equally (or perhaps even more) awesome (weapon?) skins for PvP. =)
I’d absolutely love this! I’ve realized that this is actually the thing I desire the most for this game!
I personally think that a 1-3 player teamsize is good; Preferably they should implement dueling in the open world, in which case the sweetspot is definitely 2-3 for me =)
I actually just made a thread that was pretty much about this, just less detailed: /forum/pvp/pvp/New-map-Best-fun-in-the-game/first#post3920790
Your betting system is a really good idea I think! At first I though that it would perhaps not attract so many people, but since there’s good gold to be made I think that some people definitely would get emerged in it. Thus, it would probably bring more focus to sPvP and also learn people to become “good spectators” since, at least I find it hard to keep track of what everyone is/should/might be doing =)
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This is of course entirely subjective and just my own opinion.
I think the new map (however loosely implemented) is absolutely brilliant! It is actually the most fun I’ve had in this game since the first beta.
I don’t even bother joining any match with a teamsize greater than 5, as it becomes too much of a zergfest. . . But playing with small teams! Man, that’s just a haven for PvP combat! Though, I do absolutely think that this game mode should be played without the ability to respawn until one team is dead; I think this would add a lot of structure and tension.
The most enjoyable matches that I’ve played had been in a 1v1 or 2v2 dueling format; If the teams where uneven, people would actually just stand aside and let the even duels be played =)
I’ve always loved PvP in MMOs, but I really couldn’t get into the PvP in GW2 which surprised me an awful lot since I love the combat system and the game in general.
I though this was mostly because of the lack of multiple Game Modes – Or more specifically, a game mode that actually focuses a lot on straight-up PvP combat, rather than leaving it a secondary objective besides the primary.
Call it whatever you like; Dislike it or love it, but some are having an absolute blast on the new map. I really, really hope that they add a separate SoloQ and TeamQ for this new game mode but definitely without the respawning and with small team sizes. =)
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Rifle ele FTW
Shh much secret, very power
Waw, that would be great! Running around in Water Attunement with a Water-gun
Pew pew
I think ANet pushed ESport too much from the start; An MMO needs to come to that point naturally from a solid foundation, which we’re still very much lacking.
Just my 2 cents though.
Isn’t it possible to just have your guild purchase a Custom Arena and limit the team size to 3 while only playing on the new map?
By the way, even though I fully agree that we need more game mode, I’m practically not agreeing with anything else that you’re saying.
I really, really like the changes to PvP. . . Dragon Finisher need a lot of polish though.
Saw that there was a fair delay between the toolbelt skill (elixir) landing and the bolt being discharged. Gives enough time to aim the camera at your target.
Fiddly as hell, but it’s actually kinda fun & challenging =)
… Bolts always hits with the Rifle Turret toolbelt skill, as long as you don’t hold down the RMB, in which case it’s sent flying towards the cameras ‘focus’ (which mostly means into the ground)
However, If you throw an elixir you need to target exactly under the target, which makes it impossible to hit if the target is moving more than a centimeter or so.
Seems broken to bits.
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All but the new traits are unlocked on my low-level thief, probably since I used to PvP with him. I was really looking forward towards unlocking traits around Tyria =(
Perhaps I’m a minority. Though, I would really appreciate the option to be able to choose whether or not to get all these traits unlocked for free, or to have them locked + receiving gold equivalent to the cost of unlocking them at the Trainer =)
And to all those wining about losing critical damage: We all did, most of us play Zerker. We’re all dealing less damage. Hopefully the game gets less of a faceroll now.
I would really enjoy harder versions of the current dungeons, besides what we currently have.
I think PvE lacks a big bit of challenge for those longing for it, and we already have a metric ton of nice, but fairly easy dungeons.
Personally I would probably play these (if implemented) mostly with guildies, so perhaps it could be some sort of guild feature that you can activate?
Anywho, I think it would be a very good addition to the current PvE content.
Custom servers should try lowering the score count necessary to win dramatically.
It should definitely be possible to make a match end after just a handfull of kills; What tension is there if not?
you can’t have a TDM w/o trinity
this doesn’t even make sense.
Yup.
We need a new mode, but deathmatch doesn’t work in a game without dedicated healers.
I seem to strongly recall that people playing Arena in WoW very much preferred to get a match-up without any healers.
. . . And our game is designed without healers, so it should give us a big edge in a game mode like that.
I really love the idea of a TDM game mode, but I expect nothing but a messy cluster**** out of the new, seemingly temporary one since you can continually respawn.
Think there is one or two Dps-builds that almost never leaves fire.
Lightning-hammer is an alternative.
Feels like a vapor would be spread out into oblivion if it falls for even a small distance. . .
Immobilize is silly though. Perhaps Chill should be more effective? =)
Some time in the afternoon; It feels like that’s the usual time to me.
Hopefully there will be ways to gain Transm. Charges while leveling (preferably besides Map Completion.)
. . . Then it will be absolutely fine with me. Especially since they’re adding so many amazing stuff in this pack.
When I get sick of playing piano player on ele I like to play my warrior for a break from that. With warrior you just run around thinking Hulk Smash!
Haha, yeah that’s how I do it! =)
I’ve actually managed to build my Warrior in such a way that I actually have to think between the bashing; Sometimes it’s even harder than playing an Elementalist (though, the Ele is fairly easy when you’ve played it for a long time)
Anywho, if you want an alt, try each profession out on the Golems in the HotM, with the most suitable build you can find.
The “against duels” arguments are weak at best:
1 ….
Yes! They are! And the arguments for it are really good!
In addition, most of the few negative concerns can be quite easily fixed. It’s easy to understand why one wouldn’t take a good look at the big benefits from a dueling-system, if he/she doesn’t like dueling.
Congrats Dulfy! You’ve been a huge help with many aspects of this game. Looks like you’ll be very busy. No idea where you find any time to play.
By far one of the best MMO blog sites I’ve ever used…Feldon’s EQ2wire was pretty amazing as well. Thank you for all your hard work!
Haha, yeah Dulfy is great.
Although, it’s an April Fools, if anyone’s confused. Not only is it hinted in Morrigan’s link; The Featured Article on the Wiki Main page is a glorified praise for Siegemaster Dulfy from the Ascalon-Fractal. If you press “Read more” in that article, you are redirected to the April’s Fool -page.
What’s going on? I login today and my character has bobblehead.
April’s Fools!
You are correct and I reach out to all an apology for getting into a BAITED argument about the way I use the LITERARY ARTS. Sorry all, back on-topic.
+1
there a was a 10% dps loss according to anet. DPS loss, not 10% crit dmg.
Berserker is still top damage set but it wont be as effective…
the new sigils and maybe other tweaks may compensate for the dps loss though.
This is my though precisely.
It’s still the best around, and for what it’s worth I’d like an even bigger drop in efficiency to further smooth out the Zerker-meta
It’s odd that this isn’t solved yet. Hopefully it’ll be coming up in the next 3 parts of the Feature Pack
This is amazing!!
(edited by Moderator)
Is there a reason you can’t afford such a small fee to travel…?
It’s like a few silver at most >.>
This. But more importantly, the fee encourages you to run and view the landscape and perhaps explore something new.
If there where no fee it would take some enjoyment out of the game for me. The fee is also very small, so why bother complaining about it.
Thank you! This brings some hope.
I’m kinda surprised that more people haven’t posted on this thread; It’s kind of a big and core issue, if it is as real as I’d imagine.
Really, really like this profession.
Really, really dislike Grenades and Bombs.
I’m mostly doing fractals above 20 in PvE. Is there any fun, but yet viable build that might suit me? I used to play FT/EG, which was really good fun and worked great when I played in Dungeons where people tend to play a bit worse, but that doesn’t feels necessary anymore.
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