I pretty much used it once to see what it did and then never equipped it on my utility slots again.
this fits alot of the engi skills imo.
I agree, utility goggles, rocketboots, battering ram, flame turret…
Rocket boots: Remove immobilize. Break stun. Blast finisher. Remove cripple/freeze, etc. 30s cooldown (24s if traited). Good toolbelt. It only does everything on a 24 second cooldown.
Yeah, someone’s going to mention that rocket boots knocks you down on landing, but the difference between being down/immobilized exactly where your opponent wants you down and being immobilized 900 units away is huge. Doubly so if you use the blast finisher to be invisible for 4 seconds, which gives you more time as your opponent looks for you and/or rendering fails in your favor.
Not useful on all builds to be sure, but useful on a great many.
Hardly! HA! try that in Orr. And as someone who plays a thief let me explain to you just how hard it is to kill some of these mobs when they run away at breakneck speeds to leash back to where they came from instead of walking while you are trying to backstab, now apply that to your engineer flying away landing on your back invisible while the mob has already reset like nothing happened. Not a good combo.
Who the hell cares about orr? In pve, especially in non-dungeon pve you can run any dam build you want and it will be reasonably effective. I could run flamethrower, rifle turret, flame turret and farm orr. Any build from any class can run orr as long as the person at the controls isn’t completely daft.
So basically, it is a small part of the functionality that GvG had in GW1 except we have to pay for it?
Is there a demand for this sort of thing atm? You can get into the “top 100” in terms of Qualifying points by winning a single tournament (at least as of yesterday). Tbh, this doesn’t seem to be a healthy competitive scene. Likewise, paid tourneys are deserted compared to free tourneys. There doesn’t seem to be a healthy competitive scene, nor does there seem to be much interest in one.
It seems to me that they’re pushing eSport features hard while tpvp isn’t anywhere near that level of competition atm. Look at GW1, which btw wasn’t the ideal model for an esport. Huge swathes of the player base begged for an observer mode for GvG, and there was much rejoicing when they got it. GW1 had a competitive scene before the esport infrastructure was in place. Gw2 is putting the esport infrastructure in place before it has anything remotely close to the interest expressed in gw1 to say nothing of real esport scenes like SC2 or dota.
I guess my point is this: wouldn’t it be better to fix your core gameplay for all users rather than push a feature that no one except maybe 5 or so dedicated teams would use? That’s the way it was done in gw1 and in dota and it worked pretty well (both set up solid gameplay before adding esport features).
I don’t know all of the ways you could configure your GvG experience, and I don’t know all of the ways you will be able to configure a custom arena. Until they release official details, I’ll wait to judge features.
Those details include the payment plan, which already seems to be some outrageous sum of money by the way people make mention of it. Most MMOs make you pay $15/month to play the game at all. Let’s also remember that most transactions in-game cost Gems, which you can obtain via in-game gold or out-game dollars. If you establish a fun group that likes to jump in and play with other people they know (think FPS servers), accepting donations for the maintenance of that server is not unheard of. For those people who play the game, the fact that it can be in-game currency is extra goodness.
To say only 5 or so dedicated teams would use custom arenas is non-contributive hyperbole at best. It sounds like you’re exaggerating to justify your own wants, and that doesn’t help the conversation move forward. “Huge swathes” of GW1 players demanded a spectator mode, but 25 people in GW2 would use custom arenas. These forums are absolutely atrocious at exaggerating numbers for dramatic effect, and it never helps anyone get anywhere with anything.
I wish it was hyperbole.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Leaderboards-for-Qualifying-Points/first#post665723
In order to be in the top 32 players (not teams or guilds) as of Nov 8, you only need 2 tourney wins. That’s not a healthy competitive scene.
Think about it for a moment. You need 2 measly tourney wins to be in the top 32 players for your entire REGION. That is not active competitive pvp. Period.
I’ll be totally honest. From where I’m standing it looks like there are fewer then 5 or so dedicated teams. Gw1 had hundreds. And dota, sc2, and other esports? Yeah….the audience for custom arenas, especially PAID custom arenas just isn’t there.
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Gotta agree with Plague. You can really tell that Anet’s heart was set on pve and WvW this time around. And, at least in terms of WvW, it’s the best game out there atm (RIP daoc and WAR).
But the spvp….they’re pushing esport features when the core gameplay is fubar in a number of ways. You need fun core gameplay, fun for your ENTIRE pvp player base before you push esport features. At least that’s the way every other successful eSport did it.
i like how they are adding custom servers when theres like 14 serious teams that play based on the QP post
This, this, and this again. There’s just not enough interest in the competitive scene, and that’s due to core gameplay issues in spvp.
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Can someone explain what exactly the benefit of custom arenas would be (for the players)?
A third-party cannot hold a tournament in GW2 right now because the only way to get at competitive, organized, controlled 5v5 is in a Tournament. In order to accommodate the ability for these outside groups to use the game in a competitive manner, they need a way to set up their own server that plays by their own rules with their own monitoring.
Additionally, when you have private servers, teams can perform much more controlled and organized practices against themselves and other professional teams for scrims.
So basically, it is a small part of the functionality that GvG had in GW1 except we have to pay for it?
Is there a demand for this sort of thing atm? You can get into the “top 100” in terms of Qualifying points by winning a single tournament (at least as of yesterday). Tbh, this doesn’t seem to be a healthy competitive scene. Likewise, paid tourneys are deserted compared to free tourneys. There doesn’t seem to be a healthy competitive scene, nor does there seem to be much interest in one.
It seems to me that they’re pushing eSport features hard while tpvp isn’t anywhere near that level of competition atm. Look at GW1, which btw wasn’t the ideal model for an esport. Huge swathes of the player base begged for an observer mode for GvG, and there was much rejoicing when they got it. GW1 had a competitive scene before the esport infrastructure was in place. Gw2 is putting the esport infrastructure in place before it has anything remotely close to the interest expressed in gw1 to say nothing of real esport scenes like SC2 or dota.
I guess my point is this: wouldn’t it be better to fix your core gameplay for all users rather than push a feature that no one except maybe 5 or so dedicated teams would use? That’s the way it was done in gw1 and in dota and it worked pretty well (both set up solid gameplay before adding esport features).
Honestly, I couldn’t care less about custom arenas, but at least they (the devs) are listening to the community. That’s something.
Can someone explain what exactly the benefit of custom arenas would be (for the players)?
The game as a whole is fine, for the most part, due to wvw and pve.
The structured pvp is severeley lacking.
Three simple points:
1) sPvP(8v8) and tPvP(5v5) are completely different formats. Just like in gw1 at launch, random arenas(4v4), hall of heroes(8v8), and GvG(8v8) were different formats.
2) tPvP is plagued with Pug v Premade problems. No, form a premade is not the answer. What does a player do when their friends/guildies are offline/doing something else and they want to tPvp? No, join a pug and get stomped by a premade is not the answer.
3) sPvP is pretty fubar. Many of the maps do not handle 16 players well. Even if you think they do handle 16 players well, they handle 10 players much, much better.
Honestly, #2 is mind boggling for me. The same devs in guildwars 1 recognized the same exact problem and headed it off by having 4v4 Random Arenas (Pug v Pug only) and 4v4 Team arenas (Premade or Pug).
Currently there is no 5v5 pug v pug format. Structured pvp is much more enjoyable with 10 players a map compared to 16 players a map (imo). The solution is simple. Create an spvp format capped at 5v5. Make it an exact copy and paste of 8v8 spvp in all other paramaters. How hard can this be?
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I pretty much used it once to see what it did and then never equipped it on my utility slots again.
this fits alot of the engi skills imo.
I agree, utility goggles, rocketboots, battering ram, flame turret…
Rocket boots: Remove immobilize. Break stun. Blast finisher. Remove cripple/freeze, etc. 30s cooldown (24s if traited). Good toolbelt. It only does everything on a 24 second cooldown.
Yeah, someone’s going to mention that rocket boots knocks you down on landing, but the difference between being down/immobilized exactly where your opponent wants you down and being immobilized 900 units away is huge. Doubly so if you use the blast finisher to be invisible for 4 seconds, which gives you more time as your opponent looks for you and/or rendering fails in your favor.
Not useful on all builds to be sure, but useful on a great many.
Utility Goggles: Breaks stun. Immune to blind. +20% chance to crit. Toolbelt applies instantly and gives +10% damage from all sources, great with static discharge. 40s cooldown (32 if traited).
The stunbreaker of choice for rifle-toolbelt builds. Decent on a few other builds as well.
I’ve seen battering ram used effectively, though it’s less popular these days compared to skills like slick shoes.
@Master Charles
@potato:
“TL;DR: Auto attack the dam body. Don’t be a lame pub who thinks he should be able to mash F and win.”
you called everyone raising this issue “lame.” No one should waste their time arguing with your perceived superiority.
I’m sorry but there are too many things for players to keep track of, and with so many ‘fans’ ready to provide valid counters, I’m sick of this community pointing out I’m bad.
-final post
FTFY “Master” Charles
No you didn’t, you just twisted my words. Here you omit the existence of “imbalance, exploit, or bugs” to insult me, further proving my point. Now please keep my name out of your posts so I don’t have to make another.
No, I called everyone who thinks ‘mashing F on a downed player should guarantee a win’ lame. I did not call you lame (unless you happen to think mashing F should guarante a win….in which case…yeah). Nor did I call everyone that disagrees with me lame, by the exact same token. So please, stop misrepresenting my position and putting words in my mouth.
For someone who complains of twisting words, you happen to do a lot of word twisting yourself.
And btw, Seether’s fix of your post was fairly accurate. Most everyone that disagreed with your posts provided an in-game counter to your problem. That’s called constructive criticism.
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There’s a 2 second uninterrupted window to use a half second auto-attack to counter an 85 second cooldown skill. If this gets nerfed…well…lol.
Tbh, if this was nerfed I wouldn’t be surprised. Engineers have been nerfed with almost every balance patch. We’ll adapt, we always have. And it doesn’t work against decent players because it is countered by auto-attack so…meh…. I guess?
It actually is very powerful 1v1, in that if you know you’ve already put the elixer down, you can use your harpoon rope move to knock them down for the 2 ticks you need for a full rez.
That said, I’ve been running it the last few hours and it still feels a little gimmicky. The endurance refill and stun-break are the main traits that make it worth carrying, and how it applies to your team-mates moreso. It’s ten times more useful to help out your team than yourself.
The bolded part is incorrect. When you go down, all of you’re “downed” skills start off on a short cooldown(aka Global Cooldown or GCD, which I mentioned in my first post). Seeing as auto-attack is available every half second, you are guaranteed to get in the one auto attack in the first 2 seconds. And then its over for the engineer as I mentioned in my first post….cause well…auto-attack lol.
Backstab is getting nerfed and this skill not?
Very nice logic, very nice.
Not that it’s very relevant in this thread, but I’m sure if backstab was blocked by auto attack, no one would ever have touched it.
Seriously, 19k in 7 hits and you complain about that?
You are seriously complaining about a skill that does 2715 damage per hit.Please tell me this is not true.
2715 damage per hit over 7 hits is HUGE for every other class. Not commenting on whether this specific issue is hugely imbalanced, just throwing this out there.
Personally, I think the issue with thieves is fundamentally poor class design. Vanilla WoW rogues had this issue. Gw1 Assasins had this issue when they were introduced.
Witchelves and Witchunters (essentially rogues) in WAR had issues at launch as well. Eventually all of these classes were ‘adjusted’ for less burst and more utility because the devs eventually recognized the fundamental design flaws.
Thankfully, as per dev posts in this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Backstab-time-to-nerf/page/2 , thieves are being re-tooled for more flexibility and less burst.
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Seriously, your counter argument is “It’s to hard to remember to auto-attack the body?”
I mean….if you let go of the keyboard and mouse after downing the engineer/ranger, your character will do it automatically.
Does…does l2p even apply if you’re computer will do it automatically for you?
I love it when people exaggerate after loosing a 1v1.
From the moment the engineer goes down, he needs 2 pulses of elixir R to go back up. Each pulse takes a second.
I’m gonna say it again. It is impossible to instantly self rez with elixir R.
Hit him with auto-attack once. Now it takes 3 pulses. Autoattack again —> 4 pulses.
Auto attack 2 more times and he wont rez at all.
Most classes have a half second auto attack. So 3 seconds of auto attacking and you break his self rez.
So, to reiterate: You need to get a single auto attack on the body within 2 seconds. (Btw, during those 2 seconds all of his interrupts are on GCD). You then need to put in 2.5s of additional auto attack over 6 seconds. In total you have 8 seconds to put in 3 seconds of auto-attacks.
If you can’t auto-attack the engineers body once after he goes down, I’d say you deserve the loose in a 1v1.
TL;DR: Auto attack the dam body. Don’t be a lame pub who thinks he should be able to mash F and win.
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Very interesting, could you post some info on the sample size used to collect this data?
No one is saying that they should remove 8v8, just add the option to queue into 8v8 spvp or 5v5 spvp. Don’t say tpvp because i don’t want to pug v premade when my team is offline.
Since Tf2 is a popular analogy, I’ll use it as well. In Tf2, random players don’t HAVE to join a dustbowl map, they can join a 2fort map and get matched against other randoms that wanted to play in 2fort.
I’d be fine if all we got over the next 3 months was the option for hotjoin 5v5 spvp.
Having a 5v5 hotjoin option would make spvp much more enjoyable imo.
Spvp node control as in the engineer bunker build, bomb kit is second to none there.
Wvw, it’s great for kiting, cutting off retreats, fights on supply camps. It’s less damage oriented than a grenadier traited grenade kit (but better than untraited grenades) and more kiting/utility oriented.
I really mean toughness in general is bad. You shouldn’t run it wvw. spvp is a lot different and I don’t think it a good aspect of the game to base any character off.
The rifle thing is another myth about the warrior.
I find it funny, the “conditions!” people are the ones defending toughness.
toughness is very weak. much like +healing. You need a certain level to stay alive of course. if you trait down a toughness line, do not spend any on gear.
If, wvw, do not invest in any. Spvp. 200 is probably enough.
Survival comes from hard evasion. dodge, stealth, stability, protection, reflect, block, blind, stun, knockback/down. chill. cleansing of CC. All of these things negate taking any damage at all.
Some, when used offensively, allow application of damage without having to worry about getting hit back. when you can someone flatfooted, you need to focus fire and kill them.Mit wins duels, where there is only 1v1, and sustain counts. in anything larger, focus fire and damage avoidance will win. Reducing our damage by 3% won’t save you. In a teamwork situation offense will win over defense. Again, because there are no stat related damage avoidance. why do I need toughness with supply drop stun, elixir R dodge/stun break. rifle net, rifle kd? This is my wvw, where I don’t run alone, and still. only a burst theif can drop me 1v1, where I dont have enough reliable CC’s for solo. But even in an Spvp situation, why would I be solo? its not a free for all. I might drop B and take net turret for its toolbelt, and turret net, if I were to go pick up spvp.
I think I see the problem here. I think Casia and Mell should post videos of exactly how they play wvw as they obviously don’t spvp. I have the sneaking suspicion that these two spend 100% of their time with the zerg where they are carried by other players.
Lets be honest here. It doesn’t really matter what class or build you zerg with. If you’re in 20-50 man zerg it doesn’t matter what weapon you use, you’ll be fine until you
a) encounter a larger zerg
b) encounter a more organized zerg
c) encounter lots of well placed siege.
So much hyperbole.
Factually inaccurate “proof”.
How did this guy get 2 pages of replies?
I’ll just leave this here.
http://xkcd.com/386/
Using the 3 grenade build you attain 3x most other weapon dps.
Were you an accountant at Enron by any chance?
Warrior
Bow 282.6666667
Rifle 206.6666667
Eng
Pistol 236
Grenade 978Most melee is 2x
i never included bleed because grenades have about the same.How i work this out is by the tool tip. 163 this is the damage for each grenade times that by 3 to get 489. Now it says 0.5 seconds to cast but it’s about double that. But it’s hard to test this because how do i know the numbers above it head are correct and timing is to. So i just go with it. Everyone weapon is same.
so 489*2 = 978.
As far as i can tell this is also the fastest attack in the game in terms of per projectile.
Read post, did double take. See bolded parts. When someone tells me a Rifle Warrior does less damage than a Pistol engineer…well…….lol. Something definitely be wrong with them there numbers.
Also, on your ….let’s call them “views”… on toughness….yeah…they’re wrong. And I’ll even give you away to prove it to yourself in 5 easy steps.
Step 1: Take your best glass cannon build into the heart of the mists.
Step 2: Solo queue for a free tourney.
Step 3: Go to a point, meet a bunker guardian, bunker engineer, or bunker ele.
Step 4: Loose.
Step 5: Repeat steps 3 and 4 ad nauseum.
I honestly doubt we’re the least played profession.
1) Look at tournaments and spvp. Engineers are much more popular than say Rangers. Seriously, how often do you see a high end team bring rangers to a tourney? It just does not happen.
2) Judging from my pve and wvw experience, we’re easily more popular than necros.
Just saying, the statement that we’re the least played class is probably wrong. I would say we’re in the top half of classes in tpvp, but I have no evidence to back that up. Just like every other popularity claim in this thread.
First, grenades always spread. Drop Poison grenade anywhere and you can see the spread.
Second, bombs are not point blank. If I am kiting , bombs will detonate around 400 units behind me with a blast radius somewhere between 200-300 where they do full damage across the ENTIRE radius. That’s not point blank.
If you’re standing perfectly still, they’re point blank, but if you’re standing perfectly still you’re doing EVERYTHING wrong.
Edit: Please post a video of you in spvp hitting with all 3 grenades 100% of the time at or below 1000 range across an entire match. I’ll wait. Unless you play against ridiculously bad people, this won’t happen ever.
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Honestly, if you want solid advice/commentary on the status of engineers, go to the spvp subforum.
You’ll be laughed out of their in seconds for suggesting engineers are bad.
Grenades are not bad in spvp.
You can miss 2/3 of the time, and STILL do more damage then pretty much any other weapon.
They are bad, if you are bad, and if you didn’t put any effort into making a good team comp.
This post is full of crap. Assuming full glass cannon gear, max power, crit damage, and 70% crit due to perma-fury grenades do average of 1800dps. Loosing 2/3 of that puts you at 600dps which is simply pathetic for full glass cannon.
The moment a single grenade (of the 3 thrown) misses, bomb kit does more damage.
I’m going to reiterate. Grenades have 3 small-ish independent AoE’s. They overlap in a tiny area where you can do decent damage. Everywhere else in that green reticle (if you have it enabled)? You do 2/3 or 1/3 damage.
Bombs have a slightly larger total area. No matter where your target is in that area, they take FULL damage.
@Subhuman Filth
“You know you can throw grenades behind you, right? You can make it function exactly like the bomb kit, but for much higher damage. The only significant thing you lose is smoke bomb, which isn’t really relevant for kiting anyway.”
Unless your target is directly behind you, and consistently staying 300-400 units behind you, you’re going to be doing partial damage. In reality, there is no situation in any form of pvp (or even pve) where you can kite in a straight line for a long time. The moment you start moving in anything but a straight direction (e.g. kiting in a circle), grenades will start missing.
Bombs on the other hand, always do full damage, which with any power is more than what 2 grenades do. 2 grenades<Bombs<3 grenades for damage. And again, Bombs always do full damage across their entire AoE, unlike grenades which on their outer radius only do 1/3 damage.
Highest dps against an absolutely stationary target? maybe. Not really though, cause…you know…backstab thieves and all.
Josh, everything about the clocktower was right-on. It was a bit difficult at first, but overcoming those difficulties gave a sense of accomplishment. The fact that it was a spontaneous group event also added to the entertainment factor as it became a sort of community building event.
Tbh, it is one of the best parts of gw2 so far (for me at least), and that is saying something I think.
I sincerely hope to see more events like it in future in-game holidays.
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I have to agree, where have all the interrupts gone? And rangers, my favorite class in gw1, are absolutely neutered in gw2.
Guild wars 1. Honestly, it’s completely different from 2. I like em both, but gw1 definitely has the superior structured pvp.
The PvE side of the game is extremely well polished with few exceptions. WvW is a ton of fun.
sPvp is nice, but can’t hold a candle to what gw1 was at launch. I think plague nailed it on the head when he said:
The way I see it is, many of the builds in GW1 were invented by the players. Anet never anticipated them. They integrated these into the game with balance changes, fleshing out the meta in the process. In GW2, the only builds are ones Anet personally invented. These are mostly terrible.
Good video, I like the choice of adventure runes as opposed to the usual earth or divinity runes.
I have 2 comments though.
1) To my knowledge, the bug where adrenal implant does not stack with vigor still exists. Since you have multiple kits with invigorating speed and speedy kits, you have 100% uptime on vigor which makes adrenal implant useless.
2) No stunbreaker. What do you do if a thief stuns you and then proceeds to back stab you four times? Do you just accept death in the situations where you miss the dodge against enemy CC? I get that the build relies heavily on dodging, but it seems to be a somewhat significant oversight.
Well, since mf is only useful for farming orr, time to mothball that armor/jewelry set.
No, it had it absolutely dead wrong. Everyone knows grenades suck for damage in sPvP, it’s not a response that’s going to impress or inform anyone, and it wasn’t even what he was asking.
Right now in pve there is absolutely nothing an engineer can do that even approaches the damage and utility that the grenade kit puts out. Please dont start with the “LOL ELIXIR GUN” because grenade specs can just as easily (and should) carry an elixir gun to throw down light fields and fumigates as an elixir specced build, while simultaneously putting out tons of offensive control and damage that elixir builds can’t hope to match.
Compounding this problem is the fact that grenade spam is an exhausting (physically and mentally) and unfun experience. It being our only effectively viable pve build really puts a damper on my enthusiasm for my engineer in dungeons and the overworld, and I’ve just started playing other classes because they’re simply more fun.
Using bombkit as an example, you can easily pull multiple groups and kite/kill them all where you would normally kill 1 group at a time with grenades.
In other words, say you’re in cursed shore. My pvp bomb bunker build can easily pull 3-5 groups, often including veterans, and because of my speed buffs, traits, and bomb’s defensive abilities, I can kite all of them and kill them.
With a grenade kit build, I can kill 1-2 groups much faster than a bomb kit build, but you really don’t have the traits (30 point investment in explosives limits you a bit) and the lack of the utility of bombs 3-5 and big ol’ bomb makes it much harder to take on more than 2 groups at a time.
Now, for dungeons, I would say both are equally viable. Here’s my reasoning. Yes, grenades will do much more damage. But a proper bomb build will have much higher defensive and kiting ability. What this means in practice is that where a group might wipe (and wipe you will in dungeons), especially in boss fights as an example, you have a very good chance of surviving and thus preventing a boss from resetting .
Combine this added survivability with your various support skills (e.g. elixir gun, toss elixir r’s aoe rez) and you have a very useful build. In fact, preventing wipes, especially against bosses, directly leads to clearing the dungeon faster which can lead to more rewards/hour which is what everyone wants.
Honestly, the first response had it dead on. Go into tPvP or failing that sPvP.
Bombs scale well with everything. Bomb #3, concussion bomb, gives something like 5 stacks of confusion in an AoE which ends up doing massive damage, more so than most of our other skills in certain situations. Bomb #2 gives a very solid aoe burn. Bomb #1 and Big Ol’ bomb scale very, very well with power and crit.
Grenades tend to favor power/crit over condition, but you still have some decent condition damage from incendiary explosives since you have 3 chances to crit with each grenade toss. Likewise Grenade 2 gives you a strong bleed on a 6s cooldown.
Most of the thief apologists in this thread point out that glass cannon thief vs. bunker x is balanced. And they’re right. As someone who plays a lot of bunker engineer in spvp, I can tell you I have absolutely no problem with thieves whatsoever.
The problem is with glass cannon thief vs. glass cannon x. Take for example a glass cannon thief vs. a glass cannon ranger? My money’s on the thief, seeing as we’ve already established that glass cannons die a horrible death to thieves.
Now the thief apologists might say: well rangers aren’t meant to glass cannon! Fine. What about glass cannon elementalists, whose class description directly implies glass cannon? A glass cannon elementalist (you know, 13k base hp, virtually no base armor)
will get completely destroyed by almost all thief setups.
At this point the thief apologists will say: Take multiple defensive skills and traits, get some toughness gear! Well then, we aren’t talking about a glass cannon anymore, are we?
And that’s the problem. A thief has more damage and survivability than any glass cannon build from any other class. I don’t think that’s balanced.
So you’re saying mesmers need a buff? Sounds legit.
I love it exactly the way it is.
Why do people feel compelled to get all of the new skins? They’re skins, that’s all.
There is no gameplay benefit whatsoever to having them. It’s a digital fashion show.
Let me break the news to you. If you dont care about the fashion show , GW2 will be boring for you quite soon , cause at end game , all you ever do is to get skins.
Stats? That is so easy to get you dont even sweat over.
Let me break the news to you. I play because it’s fun. I enjoy wvw, I enjoy spvp and tpvp. I enjoy the jumping puzzles, the clocktower, and the new mini-dungeon in dreadnaught cliffs. And the dynamic event can be quite entertaining as well (training charr war cows anyone?).
So no, I don’t really care for the fashion show. I play this videogame called GW2 for the game aspect of it.
I agree, bit frustrating at first, but once you get the hang of it, it was quite fun. Even after completing it, I ran it for a few more hours and still come back to it every now and then. Definitely one of the more memorable experiences in an mmo for me.
Why do people feel compelled to get all of the new skins? They’re skins, that’s all.
There is no gameplay benefit whatsoever to having them. It’s a digital fashion show.
Oh, i got your sarcasm. But as we’ve just established, it was misplaced, since no one in this thread said you must be a bunker to beat a thief. It was only implied that it made it much easier.
because, after those encounters, I’m never running anything but a bunker ever again.
^
:)And this is a major reason why the current meta is bunkerific.
Bunker Guard
Bunker Ele
Bunker Engi
Mesmer because it owns
dealers choice for 5thDo I really need to say anything?
Fine, I’ll paraphrase:
“The entire meta is bunkerific because of backstab thieves.”
Sure, but no one said you need to be a bunker to beat a thief. Your defending against a criticism no one leveled.The only think people implied was bunkers make dealing with thieves easier. And they do.
And the entire meta is bunkerific because of high burst, mostly from thieves. Look at videos from team paradigm, team curse, or any other high level team. Typically layout is 2 bunkers (dealers choice whether they’re guard,engi, or eli), 2 burst (usually thieves, sometimes mesmer), and one additional burst or bunker. That’s the layout (almost) everyone is running with minor variation.
And I’m not saying this is good or bad, I’m just saying that this is what the meta is right now.
Logical fallacy here. If they don’t need to be a bunker to beat them, they’d be focusing on other things for their builds that they do actually do need to focus their build on to beat.
Logical fallacy here. If something is annoying, like 2 skill combos potentially doing 18k damage, people may run builds that make dealing with that annoyance easier. Especially when this annoyance can cause you a match.
But we wouldn’t need to go full bunker to hold a point longer if there was less incoming damage. Your kinda proving my point here.
If thief damage (and excessive burst in general) was reduced, people would take more offensive skills for their node-control builds leading to more balanced builds resulting in fewer ‘bunkers’.
First off, best, and most reliable way to deal with backstab thieves is not to let them take the backstab, and tank it. This is useless in a fight with multiple opponents. It’s still easy enough that any player with a decent reaction time can do it consistently, so the difficulty point is moot. Pressing one key is harder than zero, but it still isn’t hard.
Second, less incoming damage doesn’t just refer to backstab thieves, it refers to everything. You nerf backstab thieves, and guess what? The metagame still revolves around standing on a point for as long as possible. Only difference is that there’s one less non-bunker build that’s viable.
I said excessive damage. 18k max on one skill is excessive compared to everything else out there. Hell, most classes start with less than 16k base health.
It’s cool though. Assassins when they were released were the same way in Gw1. And they got nerfed often and hard over the subsequent patches and expansions until they reached a balanced state. It looks like they’re following the same model here, more or less, so time will fix this “issue”.
Oh, i got your sarcasm. But as we’ve just established, it was misplaced, since no one in this thread said you must be a bunker to beat a thief. It was only implied that it made it much easier.
because, after those encounters, I’m never running anything but a bunker ever again.
^
:)And this is a major reason why the current meta is bunkerific.
Bunker Guard
Bunker Ele
Bunker Engi
Mesmer because it owns
dealers choice for 5thDo I really need to say anything?
Fine, I’ll paraphrase:
“The entire meta is bunkerific because of backstab thieves.”
Sure, but no one said you need to be a bunker to beat a thief. Your defending against a criticism no one leveled.The only think people implied was bunkers make dealing with thieves easier. And they do.
And the entire meta is bunkerific because of high burst, mostly from thieves. Look at videos from team paradigm, team curse, or any other high level team. Typically layout is 2 bunkers (dealers choice whether they’re guard,engi, or eli), 2 burst (usually thieves, sometimes mesmer), and one additional burst or bunker. That’s the layout (almost) everyone is running with minor variation.
And I’m not saying this is good or bad, I’m just saying that this is what the meta is right now.
Logical fallacy here. If they don’t need to be a bunker to beat them, they’d be focusing on other things for their builds that they do actually do need to focus their build on to beat.
Logical fallacy here. If something is annoying, like 2 skill combos potentially doing 18k damage, people may run builds that make dealing with that annoyance easier. Especially when this annoyance can cause you a match.
The real reason why bunkers are so prevalent is because the game REVOLVES AROUND HOLDING POSITIONS FOR AS LONG AS POSSIBLE.
Someone who can hold a point for a long time is at a natural advantage to someone who can’t, because the longer you last:
A) The longer you hold the point for your team
B) The more time your teammates have to come and assist you
But we wouldn’t need to go full bunker to hold a point longer if there was less incoming damage. Your kinda proving my point here.
If thief damage (and excessive burst in general) was reduced, people would take more offensive skills for their node-control builds leading to more balanced builds resulting in fewer ‘bunkers’.
Oh, i got your sarcasm. But as we’ve just established, it was misplaced, since no one in this thread said you must be a bunker to beat a thief. It was only implied that it made it much easier.
because, after those encounters, I’m never running anything but a bunker ever again.
^
:)And this is a major reason why the current meta is bunkerific.
Bunker Guard
Bunker Ele
Bunker Engi
Mesmer because it owns
dealers choice for 5thDo I really need to say anything?
Fine, I’ll paraphrase:
“The entire meta is bunkerific because of backstab thieves.”
Sure, but no one said you need to be a bunker to beat a thief. Your defending against a criticism no one leveled.The only thing people implied was bunkers make dealing with thieves easier. And they do.
And the entire meta is bunkerific because of high burst, mostly from thieves. Look at videos from team paradigm, team curse, or any other high level team. Typically layout is 2 bunkers (dealers choice whether they’re guard,engi, or eli), 2 burst (usually thieves, sometimes mesmer), and one additional burst or bunker. That’s the layout (almost) everyone is running with minor variation.
And I’m not saying this is good or bad, I’m just saying that this is what the meta is right now.
5 thieves.
Team Never Die cause of stealth and Team Kill You Instantly cause of backstabs.
According to forum logic, you could never beat a team of 5 thieves. You would die before you’d get a chance to react.
Thieves weren’t mentioned in this thread any more than bunkers. Thieves may or may not necessitate bunkers, but no one mentioned going a team of 5 thieves any more than 5 bunkers.
I’m sorry that after 2 posts explaining this, you still can’t figure out that my post was heavy in sarcasm. A single defensive utility or trait to shut down the wide range of highdamagewhileyou’restunned combos that exist in this game isn’t something that alone turns you into a bunker.
Also, after re-reading, I guess the OP didn’t say that, but the replies afterwards certainly implied it.
Oh, i got your sarcasm. But as we’ve just established, it was misplaced, since no one in this thread said you must be a bunker to beat a thief. It was only implied that it made it much easier.
Anyone who has a defensive utility skill is a bunker.
True story.
Bolded the important part. Anyone can be any class. Scary, I know.
Edit: And the op didnt say you have to be a bunker to beat a thief. Just like you don’t have to chew your food before you swallow. But it does make it a lot easier.
Anyone who has a defensive utility skill is a bunker.
True story.
^That’s what I’m talking about.
Still waiting for that ranger bunker build video btw.
Anyone (of 3 classes) who has all defensive utility skills is a bunker.
True story.
Fixed that for ya.
Yep, only 3 classes have stunbreakers, evasion, immunity to damage, protection, aegis, or any other way to mitigate damage.
Thanks for clearing that up.
All classes you say? Find me a viable ranger bunker build used in high level tpvp and scrimms, and link a video.
I’ll wait.