Guild Wars 2

I hoped his were right but fear that yours are Ken.

I dream of T1 having a 50% chance of facing each other and can live with T2 having a 20% (which is what his results showed) but yours seem to have much more volatility.

timidobserver.7925:

I think Anet needs to be shown that matching up T4,T5,and T6 servers with T2 servers is not okay, so I guess that TC has decided to go for the utter destruction of CD and SoS to the point of spawn camping in order make sure Anet gets the message.

That implies some kind of deliberate, coordinated action on TC’s part which frankly isn’t there at all.

What we are seeing is just the usual combination of casuals, fairweathers, and addicts bored out of their minds and rushing to flip anything that is a different color.

I do hope ANet gets the message though because it is an even worse situation than a deliberate effort on TC’s part – because most of TC’s “regulars” aren’t playing at all.

Best to just ignore Venton and Marrett…

They mean well…
I think…
Most of the time…

Maybe?

ykyk.2740:

covenn.7165:

We really need to stop using tiers to describe things as they no longer exist. For example “T1” last week didn’t even have the servers ranked #2 and #3 in it.

The new match up system is fine, but they need to greatly reduce the variance because it is causing serious blowouts. I really don’t think a server should play anyone more than 3 ranks above or below them. #1 vs #4 is fine… but #1 vs #9 is not even remotely close.

Rank #1 vs #4 isn’t even fine, no matter who you take to be #4 (it’s either DB or TC, and SoR would beat either to the ground. BG can probably do the same). It’s not a coincidence that the mixing has led to relatively even matches in the middle (3-7) tiers but not for the top 2 brackets – stacking has led to such a disparity in numbers at the top that we will never escape terrible matchups near the top until de-stacking happens.

I agree more with Covenn – we honestly don’t know how a TC-SoR-BG match would play out. TC would likely still come in third but would it do better or worse than JQ is doing this week and would changes in coverage balances allow BG to top SoR? Who knows? We also don’t know how a BG-JQ-TC match would play out, nor a JQ-TC-FA match, but the reason all those matches are interesting is because all those Servers are fairly close in Rank. SoS did great in EBG last week but that was the only place they could be competitive and it skewed the whole match.

Having said that I’d still love to see ANet lower the Server Map Cap to 50 or 60 and allow Free Transfers for a week or two just because WvW is more fun when the game can actually handle Zergs colliding without major lag and it would be easier for more Servers to be competitive if people did de-stack off of the top Servers a bit.

meep.2601:

well I’ll say…saying “it won’t happen overnight” in a thread that is 8 months old = bold

Devon took over WvW 2 months ago. In that time we’ve seen more updates and changes in WvW than in the previous 6 combined.

I don’t agree with all of the changes and there are plenty of things I’d like to see improved but I’m not going to slam a person who is obviously working hard to improve WvW as well as communicate more with the players.

DevonCarver.5370:

Centrix.4065:

DevonCarver.5370:

Pyroatheist.9031:

Lots of potential opportunities for griefing with fireworks unfortunately. Makes sense to not have them in there.

This is the ultimate reason for it. If we could do it in a way that wouldn’t adversely impact the gameplay of others, we would, but it’s not possible at the current time. Hopefully we can find a way to do it in the future, but for now you can’t use them in WvW for that very reason.

I don’t quite get it… They are the exact same fireworks as the original ones. Why allow one and not the other? The only reason I can imagine is that the dragon bash ones are “easier” to obtain.

And to be honest, anything can be used to grief. Might as well ban siege weapons, or transformation tonics. Or what about the most obvious, the emotes? I’m pretty sure people would grief with emotes a lot more than with fireworks.

We did some internal testing with these and you can definitely detect lowered framerates the more of these you see in an area. If you follow the pretty obvious logical train there, people will use them to adversely affect the experience of other players, intentionally. I’d love to allow all this stuff to work in WvW, but sometimes we have to take a heavy hand to stop people from being jerks to each other.

Well Zergs also cause noticeably lowered framerates and unbalanced matches adversely affect the experience of other players so can we get those fixed too?

(Suggestions: Map Caps at 60/Server along with Free Transfers for a week, and a complete overhaul of the Scoring System so it encourages the weaker two Servers to fight the strongest Server together, especially in lopsided matches )

Jayne.9251:

Somewhere, Theon is screaming at his monitor .. :P

Sorry Jayne, but it seems Theon agrees with the rest of us

Sovereign.1093:

Le Rooster.8715:

But TC beats DB especially when TC just recieved RE which are impressive.

Yes, we did win against them but not before RE transferred to us.

Umm… that’s just incorrect. I love [RE] but we beat DB 2 weeks in a row before they chose to transfer over.

DB is very scary in SEA time (NNK o’clock) but I wouldn’t be surprised if either SoS or CD could push them during NA. Both FA and Mags can tick higher than DB during NA as a lot of their transfers (outside of [Agg]) appear to be pretty “fairweather” as far as showing up.

SoR can manage close to 24/7 Pressure without even trying too hard, and have a much more focused WvW population than TC.

The Strongest Server in a Tier will take whatever they can hold from the other two opponents. They might focus the Middle Server if the scores are close or the Middle Server has a Coverage Period where they are dominant.

The Middle Server will also take whatever they can hold from the other two Servers, which (since they aren’t as strong as the dominant Server) means mostly taking and holding objectives from the Weakest Server. They might focus the Strongest Server if the scores are close.

The Weakest Server will try to take and hold whatever it can which (outside of especially close matches) isn’t much. They might focus the Middle Server if the scores are close.

There is rarely ever a reason for the Weakest Server to target and draw the attention of the Strongest Server, meaning that the chances of the Strongest Server in a match ever truly facing a sustained 2v1 are very small.

It can happen in small, localized, isolated incidents but with the way Scores and Ratings are calculated it just doesn’t make sense for a sustained one to occur…

and that is a problem.

BEST RECRUITMENT POST EVER
(oh yeah, and even though we on TC are contractually-obligated to hate and despise them, FA is a solid Server and a tough competitor – you could do a lot worse than choosing to join them)

glittergirl.4162:

Fact of the matter is that both Tarnished Coast and Dragonbrand are far from perfect and for us to move to either we would have to be reassured they still have a passion for the game and are willing to change a few of their current bad behavious.

Pretty sure if those are your honest feelings neither TC nor DB are much interested in you without a “few behavior changes” on your part as well

[IRON] as a Guild I think only fields around 30 usually (though can easily pick up other unguilded people to form a 50-60 man Zerg) and as I said they completely changed the balance in T1 before BG got some of [HB] back this week and JQ has [RG] visiting.

Trust me, most servers receiving an average of 30 dedicated, skilled WvWers across 3-4 timezones will suddenly find themselves at T2 levels of coverage/performance.

Wen Jie.8920:

Find this more fun than the (terrible) previous matchup? why not.

Because there’s freakin’ nothing to do.

Sorry Wen Jie but those “numbers” you are seeing are Fairweathers, Alts, and Map Completionists for the most part.

As someone from TC this match bites.

Listen to Chris he has a much better grasp on the situation than you.
(except for thinking Hickeroar’s post was yours)

LilMcGinley.3890:

I would go to a t4/5 server, bring them up to T3 so we can have better match-ups in the long run.

If they are as large and strong as they claim, they will bring any NA Server they transfer to up to at least T2 if not “T1.5” strength (stronger than any T2 but not competitive with T1).

Think about it – a single strong EU Guild transferred to SoR ([IRON]) and completely changed the dynamics of T1. DB dominated T3 largely on the strength of the SEA without having any EU coverage to speak of and an NA force that currently drops below both Mags and FA during primetime.

If this group goes to JQ they will likely restore it to the #1 Ranking with the SoR and BG possibly still competitive with their coverage. Anywhere else and they will only face competition when facing JQ/SOR/BG.

Chris.3290:

Don’t get me wrong, it’d be dreadful for the T2 folks, but I wonder if DB and TC did a 2v1, would JQ win and by how much?

Without any in-game incentives or mechanics to encourage the 2v1 I seriously doubt TC and DB would ally.

That match might end up even worse for DB than the BG-JQ-DB match did because TC would be under a lot more pressure to farm DB for points whenever possible to combat JQ’s strength, causing what would look like a JQ-TC 2v1 against DB (even though no such thing actually existed).

That to me is the single greatest failing of the current Rating/Scoring system – it does everything it can to encourage 2v1s against the weakest Server.

If you don’t like 30v30 avoid JQ – that’s the size of their small skirmishes during NA.

SoS is a great, tenacious opponent that hopefully will be spared from fighting T1/T2 Servers soon.

I would also recommend SBI, CD, or Yak’s Bend for their willingness to keep fighting while outnumbered.

Kreen.3925:

Been away for a week, come back read a chunk of posts in this thread and its clear some folks have no class.

Yeah you guys definitely don’t seem to like each other. Attempts at civility are always nice to see!

Kreen.3925:

So many new posters on the BG side as well, did the blackhole eat a few more guilds?

Oh… I see now you were happy to see “no class” posters so you would fit in better.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Topix.6974:

I’m not sure why people need to pretend their kitten is big and sit there and bash this person, that server, that guild… It gets old. We all learn from each fight we have. Isn’t like 1 person or 1 guild that can say they have nothing else to learn from the battles.

[REV] Chris Dawnheart, Your one of the best guardians I have seen play. Watched pretty much every video you have made. From facing you guys on the field, you guys for being a “small” guild, have quality players. You guys are a $&#^@ to kill.

[RISE] On reset night, not sure how you guys did it, but dang you guys got a ton of your members into EB. Wasn’t much we could do against your zerg, since you had massive numbers and like 98% of them were guildies. Made some interesting fights.

Now this! This on the other hand is how it’s done!

The matchups themselves aren’t as big a problem as the underlying Scoring and Rating System itself.

This is a recreational game activity not a competitive tournament where the chances are very high that matches will be imbalanced. The scoring system needs to have in-game mechanics that reward the weaker 2 Servers teaming up on the strongest and that funnel people into fights rather than away from them.

The current Rating System forces dominant Servers to squash opponents to maintain Rating (not good), encourages 2nd Place Servers to target the weakest Server to farm/maintain points/rating rather than fight the top Server, and rewards wXP Trains/Flipping way too much.

I’m not sure of the best ways to solve all these issues, but I have two suggestions to help balance scoring:

1) The 3rd Place Server in a match (by current score) receives Double Points for Objectives held in their own BL and EB
2) If the 1st Place Server’s Current Score exceeds a percentage threshold of the other two Servers – for example if Server 1 Score > 1.5 x (Server 2 Score + Server 3 Score) both other Servers receive Double Points for all holdings.

I’m sure many more ideas are out there but something really needs to be done.

Chris now you know how we felt last week when fighting SoR!

Cosmic Sparklejunk.3514:

Hi TC! I am starting to become very fond of you between the dolyak parades and the good sportsmanship you show on the forums. I know you guys are a little beyond our grasp right now at least for NA prime but you don’t seem so far out of reach like SoR did.

So watch out.

Great attitude!

Hopefully we can find ways to keep it a fun match.

Coverage is what it is and I can promise you now there are plenty of people on TC who only seem to show up when all the Maps are our color and… well… they aren’t fully housebroken to put it politely

So SoS great respect for the fights you’ve put up the past two weeks and CD bring it as best you can and forget about the score as much as possible. From the times we were in your position even a single Tower capture can be a victory and fighting with the Outmanned Buff is FUN!

Yeah DB “automagically” gained 40 Rating as well I don’t know if it was an ANet bug or a MOS bug but everybody’s Ratings are different than they were at the end of last match.

Foghladha.2506:

I think it does suck that being honorable now and not blowing out your opponents obscenely hurt our score so much we dropped to #2. There’s nothing worse than a scoreboard ticking over 500. Means the foes have given up and likely you’ll spend the night watching doylaks trot across the countryside.

On the bright side you can “take out your revenge” on BG and if you are still stronger reclaim it

Good luck SoR and thanks for staying classy despite ANet’s scoring system!

SoS – I’m truly sorry that you have the worst RNG luck ever

Eviator.9746:

Rackhir Tanelorn.9123:

Zen.8497:

Also, as some would hope in a SoR v BG v TC matchup the chances are BG and TC would focus SoR more. I would love to see us taking a shot at being decimated in a SoR v BG v T8 server.

Did you just call TC a “T8 Server” or am I misunderstanding?

Hehe, yes you are misunderstanding. He really wants 1v1 with SoR v BG, and having a T8 server as the third is the closest to that.

Thanks for the clarification!

Zen.8497:

Also, as some would hope in a SoR v BG v TC matchup the chances are BG and TC would focus SoR more. I would love to see us taking a shot at being decimated in a SoR v BG v T8 server.

Did you just call TC a “T8 Server” or am I misunderstanding?

covenn.7165:

JaredKincade.9761:

The glicko system itself hasn’t changed.

You are right, the glicko system hasn’t changed. Therein lies the exact problem because it is no longer contextually relevant

Be nice Covenn you were both right…

Glicko as implemented was never contextually relevant.

WvW was based on DAoC RvR yet the scoring system here was inherently flawed (and still is) – in RvR there were in-game motivating factors that encouraged the weaker two realms to gang up on the strongest.

Nothing like that exists in WvW and in fact the exact opposite behavior is encouraged by the scoring system. The two strongest Servers have to focus down the weakest as much as possible for Rating before turning on each other if they want to maintain their Rating. Neither SoR nor TC wanted to do that in our matchup and both have bled Rating for it (TC for 2 weeks in a row).

I’m not completely sure how to change the system, but I’d very much like to see changes that 1) have tangible in-game/scoring motivations for the weaker 2 Servers to target the strongest (especially in unbalanced matches) and 2) encourage people to come out and participate in the fights in fun ways regardless of population imbalances.

Great props to SoR NA btw this week – I know a few on my Server posted differently but I personally have great respect for you guys trying to create an environment where everyone could have fun in a very lopsided match.

Jahn.7019:

Maybe now that HB is back in full force they will stop whining about Euro.

BG now has HB and RK, their server now has the most Euro of any NA server.

Not sure if serious…

Yeah the new Ratings need to be approached like Pro Golf or Tennis – just because a Server might move into the #1 Ranking because of the formula it doesn’t change who is the “best” Server and head-to-head matchups will straighten that out.

You are probably correct except for one important fact…

There is a built-in limiter on how much the RNG can modify a Server’s Rating before determining the new matchup and it is currently impossible for SoR and ET to be matched up.

The amount of RNG is still likely too large but I think the “maximum” comes out around 200 Rating which isn’t close to allowing the matchup you are talking about.

Moderator.1462:

Hi everyone,

We have had to clean the matchup thread because there were a number of inappropriate posts. Please refarin from this behaviour in the future. If you suspect someone is breaking the forum CoC, please report them using the flag icon so the community team can deal with it.

Thanks for your understanding.
Please keep the discussion civil and constructive.

Um…

To be polite…

I think you missed a few!

Smokee.1754:

JQ sobbing about BG numbers and coverage.. The game has changed in the last few months..

Was back for the first time in 4 months or so last night. Ran into some SF and Agg people, was good fun. Will be back a bit over the summer, hopefully with some more HBs. Looking forward to be fighting with and against you all again. Especially looking forward to some coordination with BT. It was nice to see they transfered to BG though Im gonna miss fighting them.

:O

Smokee!!!
HB needs moar techno-dance recruiting videos!!!!

Yay WB!

Skoo.6439:

if by won you mean he’s some PoS add with no rep…what?

Counter-Trolling a Troll is still in fact Trolling.

Please stop.

Shaojack.3871:

I personally hope I never see TC in a match up again. =(
This week was fun at first, and our stand down was well intentioned and not meant to be mocking. Now I don’t ever care to enter wvw. I just want to be in a different match up and I don’t even care if the feeling is mutual. Good luck to you guys, hopefully we won’t see each other next week.

Don’t know what we did to make you hate us. I feel SoR NA have been great sports and I thought everybody was enjoying fun fights during that time period

Sorry you feel that way and at least I still have great respect for [Choo] and hope the “Pain Train” keeps rolling

Valin.4527:

Please don’t let a few twits tarnish the view on a whole server…and this goes for any server just not SoR.

Some people like the stir up the pot, the Internet has created a whole new breed of parent basement dwelling wanna be tough guys.

Just ignore them.

No. Don’t ignore them.

REPORT them.

The only way to eliminate the worst Trolls on the forums is to report them over and over until they are perma-banned.

Regardless of Server – if you “just ignore them” you are part of the problem, not the solution

Don’t mind Shaojack and iCryptik – they have a long-distance bromance and this is the first time they’ve gotten to meet in a long time. You know how people get when they are all nervous and fluttery

Overall I think it’s been a pretty fun week all things considered. Lots of respect to (most of) SoR this week for trying to keep things fun and not just 24/7 roflstomp. I hope most people on SoR are still enjoying themselves and having fun with the fights when they can.

There’s the occasional troll (from all 3 Servers), the occasional “what are/were they thinking?!?” moment on the field (from all 3 Servers), but overall there have been plenty of good fights and good sportsmanship for the most part.

Let’s just enjoy what we can while it lasts

Floy.2056:

Karnage.6749:

If you call “running” standing at your garrison sentry and wiping you three times. Oh, and then there was the time we wiped you when you tried to go save your supply camp next to bay.. Shucks though we sure did “run.” :p

I’m not sure what group you wiped 3 times, but it wasn’t the same group that was /laughing at you.

No, he was with the SoR Group doing the laughing, and providing such a wonderful example for his community just like his posts here.

Offski.4897:

Also we are starting to get worried about our rating as BG are about to go above us (Ahh what are Anet thinking), which means we may well get another one sided match up next week.

Please note there is little-to-nothing you can do to influence that by PvDooring your Rating up. SoR entered the week with a roughly 70 point lead on BG and still ended up getting paired with the #4 and #7 Ranked Servers. BG finishing 5-10 Rating higher than you isn’t going to put them out of reach nor reduce the chances of you facing them.

If you want to “play for the Gold Medal” fine but stressing about Rating for future matchups doesn’t really make sense. The amount of RNG is just too high right now.

They just introduced new PvE Content and Minis…. almost all the Maps around LA just went into Overflow on TC

I agree SoS has some great Guilds and make tough and tenacious opponents.

I hope you guys are successful in gaining a few NA Guilds to help balance out your Coverage!

Ghedoriah.4290:

It’s incredibly rude and condescending to your opponent to deliberately play worse/not play at all, just because they’re weaker than you….
This is not even getting onto how much of a illogical move this is. You’re concerned about an imbalanced match-up so you decide to propagate it by allowing us to take rating off of you?

There are two ways you can look at the situation…

You can get all kittened-off that they aren’t ROFLstomping you and camping you 24/7.

Or…

You can take the attitude that at least for now this format is here to stay, and SoR (and TC) coming out to fight but maybe not going “kitten deep” on SoS allows EVERYONE to have a fun week.

It’s good for all of us to have “fun weeks” rather than always pushing as hard as possible. It reduces burnout. It reminds people it’s “just a game” and lets them have fun. SoS can definitely bring it during Oceanic Times while SoR and TC have been having some great fights during NA.

It’s not like SoR has stopped playing completely they are still out there with huge numbers some of the time so how about enjoying all the good fights out there to be had rather than getting worked up over an opponent showing some class and sportsmanship ok?

Come on people… we all know the secret to improving TC<→SoS relations is having the 2 Servers in a match together with DB

@Shaojack

You might have better luck later in the week.

The problem is neither TC nor SoS have any free bodies to spare with SoR’s numbers and constant pressure.

In this match it’s easy for [Choo] to pull 15-20 people out of the fight (hell you guys could take the whole week off) and it won’t much impact your effectiveness on the field but TC and SoS simply can’t afford to do that.

You can say “well everything’s decided” and “points don’t matter” but at least from TC’s perspective nobody likes to see our BL overrun while one of our guilds was circle-jerking (no offense) in a meaningless fight.

Hickeroar.9734:

Rackhir Tanelorn.9123:

Good Job TC and SoS!!!

We drove [TW] from SoR!!!

xD

Yeah, I’m sure that’s exactly what happened.

Yeah, so what if we prolly drove them away with boredom…

I’m happy in my delusions and take my victories where I can get them!

UnrepentantProcrastinator.7420:

Kryyg.8576:

You guys seem really upset they didn’t come to BG.

No one is. We’re only slowly finding out SoR’s obsession with BG borders on BG’s obsession with TC.

This love triangle can’t continue.

DON’T go there…
(You know FA is still sensitive about us leaving to see other Servers >.>)

Good Job TC and SoS!!!

We drove [TW] from SoR!!!

Kryyg.8576:

^^ With all the guilds that BG has gotten, you should be mopping the floor with everyone quite frankly.

BG is the most stacked and overpopulated server of all NA servers. You’ve basically merged 3 other servers into yours.

It’s a testament to JQ that we are staying competitive even though you’ve gained 15+ guilds and we’ve lost 3 in the same time.

Or it can show just how incredibly overstacked JQ has been since Free Transfers ended

Honestly I wish you guys would all get over the whole “Guild Transfer” thing – ALL Top 6 NA Servers got there through a combination of having a solid “Core” group of Guilds, strong Communities, dedicated Players (i.e. Coverage), and yes… Transfers.

Just let it go. I think it’s time don’t you?

kefro.9312:

Rackhir Tanelorn.9123:

If you’re really bored you can have [Choo] [Tsym] and [IRON] transfer over to us!

No?

Dont worry ill be upgrading a low level during this week to help the balance :P

I appreciate it!
(but I think I’d rather have those 3 Guilds no offense >.>)

If you’re really bored you can have [Choo] [Tsym] and [IRON] transfer over to us!

No?

Korbaal.6402:

Calvin.5380:

Can EMP and RE settle this over a GvG and get over the drama? Or are we going to keep behaving like this for an eternity?

RE will welcome EMP to a GvG… but I can assure you RE have absolutely no hard feelings to EMP or our former allies on JQ at all.

Oh that’s nice to hear

Korbaal.6402:

All the hate and misgivings are completely one way.

Hmm….

Korbaal.6402:

But that just shows the difference in class and attitudes between us and the people constantly bad mouthing.

Oh, nevermind… just another Troll after all!

@Cuddles
<3<3<3

Grithan Soulforge.5726:

At least we now know what server the person who kept DDoSing SoR’s TS was on eh?

Hint: Not JQ.

Actually someone was already whining in our matchup thread that SoR got DDoSed this week… maybe someday they’ll accept that they are likely doing it to themselves :P