Guild Wars 2

AndrewMcLeod.3857:

[snip]…
As for ascended gear, to reiterate what Chris has said (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside), it’s not intended as a treadmill, but rather as a tier of rewards that can help bridge the gap between Exotics (a few hours of effort to acquire a piece) and Legendaries (hundreds of hours of effort to acquire one). They’re currently only available in the Fractals of the Mist Dungeon, but we’re going to be adding new ways to acquire them, both inside of WvW as well as elsewhere in PvE.

The way that Legendaries were introduced there was no gap between them and Exotics. They followed the manifesto. There is, however, a huge gap between Exotics and Ascended gear. So, rather than fixing a gap, you’ve introduced one. So, this is my first hurdle to climb in understanding your logic. And, suppose I give you the stated fact that a gear-based, vertical progression treadmill was not intended with the introduction of the new tier of gear. Do you now understand that you have introduced what you didn’t intend? It’s a serious question. I would really like to know because it’s so obvious to so many people. How did you miss it?

DegoLocc.5976:

GW1 was not an MMO, it was a co op RPG, with some multiplayer tacked on.

GW2 is an MMO.

My point is, I fail to see why ppl get upset about a game being what it is supposed to be, an MMO. You obviously said it yourself, you like the “idea” of MMO’s, but to me it seems like you are more into RPG’s.

I believe you have already been answered on this one in another thread if I recall. The link between GW1 and GW2 was established by Anet. GW2 was not supposed to be another MMO. It would be a very different MMO and it would stand on the shoulders of GW1.

No I don’t agree at all. I believe the people who take the time to post concerns about a game are actually those most invested in a game. What you derogatorily call whining, of course, must be evaluated. Do they represent valid concerns about game direction or not? If so, they are not whining; they are rather the best (most invested) customers of a game company coming to the forums to voice their concerns because the forums are the official medium for this kind of communication. It actually seems pretty straightforward to me.

TSLlol.4879:

This has been the breaking point for me too.

I can tolerate most of the things OP posted but the breaking point for me is this:

-Luck gets rewarded, not effort

I’ve spent most of my play time (800 hours from headstart to today. also played betas.) on trying to make a profit so I can afford to forge the Dreamer. I just wanna shoot rainbows that’s all. I’ve made 100g during that time with a lot of effort. (I still don’t have the precursor) Now random people who spent even less than half of my playtime get rewarded double the money that I’ve worked up from headstart ’till today just for participating in a 2 hour long event, while I got 2.5g for the same event. Yeh. Thanks but no thanks.

And this isn’t just about todays event. That was just the breaking point for me. It’s been like this all along, I just was able to tolerate it up till now. How could you make a fortune? Get lucky with a precursor drop or get it reforged from the MF, or find an exploit and abuse it. (side note: I’ve reforged 216 exotic shortbows. nothing.) … or be a mastermind on economy I guess.

One thing an engaging game will always have is reward for playing it. I’ve never had an omg, wow moment with anything in the game so far and I have over 500 hours. With that much time played I realize only how much is placed out of the players reach. The addition of vertical gear progression just makes it worse as it is a grind that dwarfs WoW’s grind. Heck, I can’t even grind out the common stuff now. If it weren’t for the gem store I wouldn’t have anything for my time in-game. A game has to reward a player for playing it. If that doesn’t happen, players will simply leave.

ProphetSword.5427:

Here’s what I mean:

I generate a character and I level them to 80. Along the way, I don’t do much of the personal story and I don’t bother with dungeons. The game for me is all about PvE exploration, fighting enemies, engaging in dynamic events and doing my own thing. I’m not a PvP player.

For people like me, it’s about the sense of accomplishment of learning a new character, doing fun things, meeting people and not worrying about my gear or whatever. I played other games like this (even WoW), and despite people trying to tell me I should be pursuing gear and doing raids, I had fun anyway doing my own thing.

Good luck with that. So what you are saying is that if someone wants to tool around Tyria this won’t have much of an impact. You are right. But, if you want to craft, run dungeons, or do WvW this has a huge impact. In fact if you want to do any of those aspects of the game meaningfully/profitably, you will have to hop on the gear treadmill. What you are describing doing in WoW was pretty much not doing anything in WoW. So, I agree. If you don’t want to do much in Tyria, the changes should have little impact on you so don’t worry about a thing.

That would be warrior. If you are looking for ezmode, initially go with a Greatsword/Rifle, signet build. Most people suggest changing the build at level 40 or so, but I kept it till 80 before changing over to shouts so I would be a little more useful in groups. I’ve got all the professions and Warrior is definitely the easiest to level.

Astralporing.1957:

There were two main problems of mass deaths in this last event…[snip]

I was actually using the weekend’s event as illustrative of a aha! moment. It is no different than what I see in most dynamic events with a Champion involved. Melee often go down in short order. In fact that is the more common scenario than seeing them survive. It seems that players don’t have the survivability to play in melee range for very long. The distinction is that is very uncommon in a game with the trinity in place. I’ve done a lot of 25-man’s in another game and if you see even one person down it mean’s someone did something very wrong, even in a pug situation (yes, you can pug 25-man in that game). Sure, it does happen, but it’s not the norm. I don’t want to believe that the quality of player is just way lower in GW2 than other games. Is it possible that the profession’s dynamics are contributing?

I vote for Norn T3 medium as sexiest. Somewhat subtle in it’s exposure but very sexy.

TheUndefined.1720:

What I am saying is:

• ArenaNet’s mechanics of getting rid of the trinity system didn’t translate well into Guild Wars 2.

That’s not to say we should have a trinity system. That is saying maybe the developers should take a look at their system, and find ways to improve upon it so the game doesn’t feel like a ‘zergfest’ at times.

I think this is clearly one area that can be discussed. It was illustrated graphically for me in this weekend’s event. I was playing it ranged and my visual was the boss and a sea of downed players that were in melee range. You know, it looked like a cemetery with neatly aligned tombstones. There is something jarring about a plate class that can’t go toe-to-toe with a boss if they are properly built. It takes me back to early D3 where barbarians, the consummate berserker, had to kite white mobs like a sissy. We know in our gut that there is something wrong with the picture. I don’t know the answer to this, but the trinity at least had an answer to the problem. I remember a dungeon in WoW where a tank almost soloed a boss from 25% hp after the rest of us wiped. It was a thing of beauty really, someone fulfilling their role (and more) exquisitely. I’m leaning more towards trinity, if zergfest with tombstones is the alternative.

TheUndefined.1720:

Thanks Raine for your post! I’m really happy you enjoyed the video as well.

I completely understand your stance on this issue. At the very least the point you brought up with not even knowing where to begin in a discussion like this. However, that’s really a great thing!

I feel when we, as consumers, are left a little speechless when being presented with a problem, it’s really an opportunity for us to think. When I first watched that video, the entire time I was thinking Guild Wars 2. Even when I posted this thread I often paused not really knowing where to start.

I don’t believe this points towards the game having too many problems to fix, but instead I felt I was being put in a position of developer not player. Perhaps this stance on Guild Wars 2 can really help players provide great feedback that will resonate in the developers of Arenanet.

Another thing that has my creativity blocked is I don’t know where they want to take GW2. What kind of game do they want to create? We know the genre, but what differentiates it from other games in the genre? I think, firstly, we need to know the contents of Manifesto 2.0 that reflects the current vision for GW2.

I watched the video and it was very helpful to get some insights on the lower levels of game design. Thanks for the link btw. I usually am at a higher level in thinking about game genre, i.e., arpg=smash monsters/find awesome loot. But that definition really incorporates a collection of underlying elements that combine to create my experience. I’m sure there are aspects of GW2 that could use some polishing to better integrate and produce the intended effect. Sadly, because of the Ascended gear uproar I’ve been side-tracked into thinking about the consequences of deviation from the manifesto. It might have been better for Anet to work on refinement and evolution rather than scraping the manifesto and heading in another direction. They now have so many dynamics and countervailing forces at work it’s going to take a miracle to get things sorted out. It feels like a game that was guided by a great vision go to one where they are making it up as they go along. Given the situation, I don’t even know where to begin in a discussion like this.

Stick around. Once they implement the dungeon finder, the game will be just like WoW. Sure, it will take awhile to smooth out of the grind, but they’ll get there eventually. No need to go to another MMO.

Logun.2349:

Don’t blame the players the community is shaped by the game mechanics, and Arena Net abandon their own core values and went off the tracks with this one.

Any veteran MMO player could have saw this one coming.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/The-New-GW2-Flavor-Rocks/first#post783134

This is absolutely true. Design philosophy and game mechanics assist in creating an in-game culture. Features like DE’s and non-competitive resource nodes make you glad to see other players on the map. In other MMO’s your own faction often turns into your worst enemy as you are grinding content or resources. What you are seeing is less about human nature, that’s a given, than the certain effects of implemented philosophy and design.

I have to agree, but I would take it a step further. I think anything like monthly events harms long-term development. Development resources are limited and they should be spent first addressing core game issues around the basic systems and fixing the classes, then on future content. One-time events on anything near a monthly basis are a positive detriment to overall game quality. Don’t believe me? Play the game.

Sadly, we don’t have a reliable source for this kind of information, lol.

BlueprintLFE.2358:

Is it going to continue with this design philosophy?

I have never seen a game company make a reversal on an implemented system like this in time to avert disaster. This weekend they are hoping that people will forget about it and it will all blow over. Next week will be full-time crisis management. But, it is more likely that they will double down on the error and try to show us why they are right and the players are wrong. I have seen companies pull something out in the 6-month to 1-year time-frame but it’s always too late by then as the game has received a mortal blow. If Anet reversed their reversal of design philosophy with a mea culpa next week, I would probably feel better about them than ever. But, history (which they are free to learn from), says nothing will change in terms of direction.

Waffler.1257:

Haha, everytime I make a thread where the title doesn’t directly describe the contents, a moderator changes it.

How do you moderate The Titanic? It pretty much just happens.

Arysta.9530:

I haven’t visited most of the old dungeons. Sigh. I thought I had time. I’m so disappointed that this happened so quickly after launch. Without a LFG tool, I might as well give up on ever seeing them.

Never fear. WoW has one and that means GW2 will have one soon. In fact, I bet it’s in late development as we speak.

psirca.9452:

Raine.1394:

Traxous.2304:

Just curious as to where every1 is?

I witnessed the same phenomenon with Diablo 3. Once the player base realized that they had not gotten what they were promised in D3, the players poured out of the game and into the forums. I never spent time here on the forums till the patch.

For players who have invested themselves in a game in character development (and attachment), shared experience with friends, etc. over a number of years experience a loss at the hands of a game company, they go through a process of grieving. And that process takes place on the forums. You’ll see it all here: anger, denial…when it finally becomes quiet it means they’ve accepted it and moved on.

I think you are talking about this theory.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model

It does seem to be playing out.
There is no mention of the people that don’t talk though.
Every game I have been in, players left but didn’t post on the forum about it, they simply went.

The people that post on forums are usually the INTJ types that believe that they have most of the answers if someone would just listen. It’s part of the belief that if leadership is inadequate, someone must intercede on behalf of the followers that don’t have a voice or can’t articulate it into words. http://www.keirsey.com/4temps/mastermind.asp

That’s pretty perceptive there. In Myers-Briggs terms, I’m an INTJ, lol.

Traxous.2304:

Just curious as to where every1 is?

I witnessed the same phenomenon with Diablo 3. Once the player base realized that they had not gotten what they were promised in D3, the players poured out of the game and into the forums. I never spent time here on the forums till the patch.

For players who have invested themselves in a game in character development (and attachment), shared experience with friends, etc. over a number of years experience a loss at the hands of a game company, they go through a process of grieving. And that process takes place on the forums. You’ll see it all here: anger, denial…when it finally becomes quiet it means they’ve accepted it and moved on.

Fiddlestyx.9714:

Traxous.2304:

Just curious as to where every1 is?

Azeroth. The gear grind is much better there.

Lol. I replied to a couple posts yesterday where the OP said that at least the grind AN was introducing was not steep like WoW’s. Right. Gearing up in WoW is a piece of cake compared to getting the Ascended gear both in terms of time and gold. Not only did AN introduce a gear grind, they dwarfed the competition.

Eveningstar.6940:

1. A Manifesto Is Not A Binding Contract

I don’t think you have a good idea of how contract law actually plays out IRL. Emails can be construed as part of the promise/contract in court. You are correct that it is a document that is not in the form of a contract, but it could easily be construed as part of a contract’s promise if a buyer was relying on the promises a company made in a manifesto concerning a product that was to be purchased. Once you have been in the business world you understand quickly that a contract is the starting point in a legal dispute, not where it ends.

Feedback: I endured the day one lagfest and swore that was it for the event weekend. But, I went back today and liked the island. My ranger got a shiny new reef drake pet and was pretty happy. It’s a drake so it dies instantly but it’s red and looks pretty cool in town.

My advice is to read the thread on Ascended gear as that’s where the most important feedback on the patch is to be found. I bought GW2 to get away from the treadmill and you just introduced one that dwarfs the competition. In WoW it was easy (and cheap) to gear up; Ascended will take ages and cost a fortune. But, it’s not the difficulty in acquisition that is the problem; it’s the violation of your word that is the problem. I don’t want easy gear upgrades, I want relief from having to consider gear stat upgrades and gated content and the creation of classes of players based on the gear they are willing to grind. There you go.

forrae.6708:

while i dont like the new changes, i think its an overreaction to immedietly jump to your feet and assume that they are intending on putting a gear treadmill as steep as the likes of WoW’s (or even worse, that of a korean grindfest mmo).

As one who spent years on the WoW treadmill I can tell you it doesn’t even compare to the steepness of the Ascended requirements. It was easy to gear up in WoW both in PvE and PvP—there was a known path to the gear you wanted and you may have needed to run an instance several times but you got it fairly rapidly at no cost beyond repairs (which the guild paid). The grind to gear up to Ascended will take forever (and cost a fortune) for anyone not playing the game HC. And herein lies the problem: AN is creating the very situation they marketed against with GW. And the problem is not so much with the difficulty of obtaining Ascended gear, the problem is the creation of a treadmill and gated content. They’ve violated the core principles they sold the game on. The issue seems pretty clear. I understand that some want a treadmill. But, if you had done the research you would know that GW was unique in being treadmill-less. It really doesn’t make any sense to buy a game opposed to treadmills and then lobby for one. I guess it made sense to AN though, so you got your treadmill.

It’s rare for a game company to reverse something that has been implemented in-game, at least in a time-frame that avoids the loss of players. What is more common is they will first double-down on it telling you all the reasons they are right and you are wrong, compounding the problem. It’s sad to entertain this fate for GW2—in a short time I’ve invested a lot in this game with 2 level 80 characters and 11 character slots with characters to fill them. I just don’t have a good feeling about how this will turn out and it has completely changed how I feel about the game. Nothing would please me more than to see a reversal of their reversal of design philosophy.

Ganzo.5079:

We’re not going to rest on our laurels now. We started this company to innovate and bring players new experiences. Guild Wars 2 is the perfect game for Guild Wars players, but it’s not just the same game repeated again. We took this opportunity to question everything, and we have some exciting answers for you today.
The first thing you should know about Guild Wars 2 is that, this time around, there’s no question that it’s an MMORPG. It’s an enormous, persistent, living, social world, filled with a wide variety of combat and non-combat activities. There’s so much depth here that you’re never going to run out of new things to discover.
So if you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; and of course, it doesn’t have a monthly fee.

Need anything else to read?

Nice one. Anet really is the one that set the bar for “comparing the two together”. There are many who did not read the box before buying the product and now are making their presence known on the forums. Sadly, Anet seems to be listening to them.

There is no such thing as a “vocal minority” in reality. There are only voices and they are either in the minority or majority. The forums are only one medium for feedback on the state of the game, but it is a significant one as it functions as one of the official channels for communication. It would be silly for a company to ignore significant feedback. The feedback, ideally, will be evaluated and given it’s due weight in their decision-making processes.

Love the Manifesto—it’s why I bought GW2. However, it’s clear since patch that the game no longer evolves under the stated design philosophy. That is, the manifesto neither guides the development nor reflects the nature of Guild Wars the game. My preference would be for Anet to reverse their reversal of philosophy. The second best option would be to remove the manifesto from all sites over which they have control.

Ostra.3927:

Dogblaster.6713:

So you know guys … FoTM and Asceded gear was created for players (HC PvE) who wants to progress pve. So if players want to progress it you bet they will be picky, I am hc pve player myself with about 200+ explorable dungeon runs and you bet I am really not inviting just some randoms with bad gear and no skills.

So again, just repeating. FoTM was created mainly for level 80 level HC players who wants to progress. So I dont see any reason to complain about elitism .. cause thats how it is.

So you bet that random/pug groups are going to have problems in this dungeons, you bet that players that want to finish every difficulty possible will ask for best players only. If you dont like it, make your OWN group and just run difficultry one with whoever you want.

I will make mine group of elitist players and nothing you can do about it.

LMAO.

Yet those of us that first heard about the gear stat increase were told “it wont be that bad, stop exaggerating” when we said this would be exactly what would happen.

The only problem is we were wrong… we expected it to be a few days… low and behold its just a few HOURS. LOL

Reap what you sow grind heads… reap what you sow.

The most humorous thing about Dog’s posts is that he has no recognition how foreign he sounds to those who embrace the stated Guild Wars design philosophy which is centered around players playing with other players successfully. GW2 was a breath of fresh air after WoW and I have loved helping others out when they were in need and I’ve been helped many times by other players. It’s a shame to see Anet cater to those who want GW2 to become WoW. If you haven’t experienced WoW, it comes with a lot of baggage. Sadly, the recent changes have brought the players with the wowtude out of the woodwork. I’m just really sad to see GW2 go in this direction and for the first time since launch, I have no desire to play.

Namu.5712:

I think everyone got their money’s worth out of the game…. what else can you get entertainment wise for 60 bucks that keeps you occupied for 3 months…. I cant really think of anything.

If you read the D3 forums you will see this exact justification appear over and over when things went south. It’s a basic misconception of the nature of gaming when you are talking about a Diablo or a Guild Wars. The price is really of little significance. The true investment comes in time spent in-game in character development (and attachment), in friendships formed, etc. A Diablo or a Guild Wars is not designed to be over in 3 months and anyone offering this justification just does not understand the nature of gaming in these genre.

Docmandu.2914:

RhysSebastian.7651:

Name 1 fight in the entire game, that requires gear more so than good movement and utility selection.

Lol good movement and utility selection.. had a good laugh at this.. combat in GW2 is basically face rolling your skills that are not on cooldown. They failed miserably on the combat part… now the gear grind is following.

It certainly brought a smile to my face. I loved the idea of the dodging mechanic until I discovered that, in PvE at least, it’s pretty pointless in many encounters. You dodge out of the red circle only to land in another one (now chilled with no endurance and no chance to dodge or move again), or you dodge a ranged attack only to be hit by the ranged attack. There are too many encounters where effective use of game mechanics (i.e., skilled play) has too little effect on situational outcomes. It’s often just as effective to stand still (speaking heretically now as a ranged player) and have a dps showdown which gets kinda boring after awhile. But, to the topic, I was loving the idea of a grind-free game prior to this patch—a major letdown.

I’m with Spurious on this one. Compromise is the source of the current problem, i.e., the stated design philosophy has been compromised for unknown reasons. It is quite jarring to read or listen to Anet devs on the horrors of a gear treadmill and then see one introduced within less than 3 months of launch. I’d prefer they adhere to their stated design principles rather than offering differing paths on the same treadmill .

I actually don’t think a straight polling of users is a good idea. I think this should be driven by the game companies vision and design philosophy; that’s what people have bought into after all. And, it’s clear what this companies vision is (was) from their manifesto. I say let’s go with the manifesto; that’s what we all bought into and it’s really a great solution to the current problem. And, that’s what founding documents do best; guide the evolution of what follows. So, can we agree with the Anet’s stated goals? That is, no gear grind and gear that has the same stats for all at max level. Sounds simple enough. Player skill trumps a gear check—what do you think?

Genesis.5169:

The general consensus is casual which holds no ground to the game because they will eventually get bored and leave the game like they do with everything.

You heard it hear first.

Wrong. The entire classification scheme you use casual/hardcore is coming from other games, as you are. Guild Wars is (was) a different conception entirely. Your post describes you well, but not Guild Wars.

Namu.5712:

siepher.9408:

Namu.5712:

siepher.9408:

i said stuff, had to cut for post length

So that leaves us pve for some kind of leeway for progression of some sort. If you don’t like it well sorry, don’t know what to tell you. But you don’t know where its going to go nor do I know where its going to go. But AN has realized people aren’t playing much after hitting 80, because there is nothing to do, well grind for your legendary, but outside that. Not much.

i don’t know if you read through all of my post, but the last 2 paragraphs were about how i am OK with the new patch and I am trying to be optimistic, and more than willing to try it out.

as for WvW you are right there isn’t much incentive to play it right now, it does need more content. So why didn’t they add more to that instead? or to the rest of the games lacking areas? (as you said with balancing issue sPvP isn’t where it should be, though i believe class balance is a big part of hte update)

rankings and titles are an awesome idea, i would love to see commanders that actually have commander status from playing WvW rather than farming 100g.

I think we partially agree on things and compromises can be made. My original point was to support the OP in that people who don’t have time to play regularly to get new content shouldn’t be hindered by it.

I would have loved rankings and things that make individual play a goal towards something.

But on the same hand I am confused as to why they didn’t do that already. I don’t want this to become like “WoW” I dont think it will by any means come close to that level of progression and gear grind. But if it heads down that road well ill still play until I feel like it’s not worth playing.

We have all been there with the elitist stuff, and this game is not showing that…..yes people are being picky but they aren’t being downright mean and disrespectful if you are not on their level, thats what happens in WoW. And its disgusting, but its not the game that breeds this behavior. Its people in general, in any game be it a mmo or fps. People are downright mean and nasty and want to stand above others.

From my point of view about being hindered. If your not running it for the new gear there really is no reason to be running it except for money? maybe a new skin or something thats in there…. they made it as such so that players who don’t care can still run it but not run it repeatedly.

Heres a good example of how things could have gone. Say there was no stat increase just cosmetic… but say they added a time trial type game play that is ranked by server and by region.

Instead of people saying 80 and exotics they would be saying 80 full exotics, xxxx professions need not apply high dps only. There is no stats driving that behavior it is the need to be the best even when progression gear isn’t there.

If you want the best times to beat everyone you need the best dps and some professions are in poor shape. Thus the same gating and not including people would still happen regardless.

You might try reading the elitest wowhead posts above you. It is happening and it’s happening right here and right now. The battle lines are drawn. Do you want the stated design philosophy of the Anet manifesto or do you want a softer and friendlier WoW?

It isn’t really about a 2 hour time commitment, the issue is that GW2 has gone the way of WoW. It’s now a gear grind, something anathema to the stated anet design philosophy. That’s the issue. Let’s keep the discussion on track…lest it threatens to get derailed and therefore be deleted.

I think before the last patch GW2 was doing OK. I certainly was having a blast and was highly invested in the game. With the current patch GW2 has gone the way of D3 and trouble will certainly be in the title of any reference to the game from now on. Anet has decided to take the game in a direction that the player base doesn’t want and will probably double-down on their error rather than reversing themselves on their reversal of design philosophy. That’s the way Blizzard does it and Anet seems to be taking their cues from them at the moment.

I would come back for the game anet said this would be.

Same feeling here. It’s actually a process of grieving that everyone is going through right now. Just wish anet felt as strongly about their stated design philosophy as I do.

Regardless of consensus, it’s clear anet is not living up to the promises made in their manifesto. And, having too much experience with MMO game companies, I know that they will never reverse their reversal of philosophy. So, regardless of consensus, GW2 is now just another MMO. The more important question is what will the player base do with that once they’ve gone through the phases of grieving. My guess is Guild Wars diehards will move on in significant numbers as a matter of principle. Players coming from WoW for a more friendly player playing with other players experience will be delighted and stay as GW2 becomes more and more WoW-like. While I would love to be wrong on this, I don’t believe anet will change it’s current morph into WoW with a friendlier face.

I had a similar response to OP. With me, I feel it in my gut. I’ve invested a lot into GW2, and felt I would be in it for the long haul. I loved the manifesto and general design philosophy. They seem to have decided to take the game in a new direction, so I think the title is apt. At any rate, I won’t be going in that direction myself. I want to find the game GW2 says it was going to be.

Yes it would. And it would have had the added benefit of being consistent with the stated design philosophy of the game. They would have got two birds with one stone.

Reidlos.5437:

you do realize this entire board RIGHT NOW is complaing about the chance this game IS DECAYING to this lvl and turning into WoW right? I hope to god you trolling.

I believe he is completely serious and completely oblivious to the current sensitivities of the player base. It is ironically humorous to have this popping up at this time.

Haha, just change a word or two here and there and this could be the D3 forums. GW2 is a great game; it’s too bad they reversed themselves on their manifesto promises. I think anet is in for a D3 experience as people move from the game to the forums.

Re-reading the manifesto, I still love what they said GW2 would be. But now, reading those words feels like salt in the wounds.

This actually goes one step beyond typical grindy MMO’s. At least they allow you some time to enjoy your accomplishments before you hop back on the treadmill again. I just got my first character to 80 and now it’s time to think about gearing up…again. I thought GW2 was going to be a different MMO.

A well-reasoned, thoughtful post. Just wanted to agree before the thread is locked for threatening to derail…whatever that is.

I didn’t come to GW2 from GW1 but I have to admit I was a bit shocked by the introduction of a new tier of gear so soon. I come from grindy games but even they gave you a period of rest before it was time to step back on the treadmill. Even if you are going to set out to make a grindy game, you really need to allow some time to savor your accomplishments before getting back to work.

My theory is a little different. I think they have their priorities a tad askew. Instead of working to get the fundamentals right, they are spending precious development resources on one-time events. It’s clear they’re spread thin there as well as the events have been a big disappointment. I do think that there is hope if they can focus on baking the cake before attempting to apply the icing.

Toward that end, I think they should put one-time events on hold until they have the basics covered. An example would be a combat mechanics where the players skill is really a small factor in determining combat outcomes. Once they get the basics covered, I think they should consider whether one-time events should outweigh on-going, long-term permanent content work. They’ve made a great start with GW2 but I think they could use a reality check around their conception of how to move the game forward.

Yeah, as suggested, try another zone if you don’t like the one you are in. I leveled my Charr warrior in the asura area as I like it and I have a horrible problem with lag around the Black Citadel—happens at odd moments whenever I’m there. I actually am just going back for my storyline and am having the same problems with lag but that’s the only place I experience it. There are many options all the way to 80. There’s nothing that can be done about the challenge; as you level up things will get more difficult—that’s the way of games, improving your skills and overcoming challenges.