The problem is not the bots; they are not gone. My evidence would be a bustling 3rd party gold market, unless you are saying they’ve found a new method of farming gold.
The problem is how a company chooses to respond to the presence of bots and gold sellers. There was an interesting object lesson in the major ARPG released earlier this year. There were bots and complaints about the bots in the community. What did they do? They removed gold from destructibles and weapons form weapon racks. These elements were a defining feature of that ARPG franchise. They left them in the game because they realized they were one of the defining game elements, but then there was the absurdity of breaking vases and having nothing spill out and having your repair bill go up. The community went nuts.
It is never right to harm legitimate players or make their game less rewarding because of the presence of botters. There are a variety of methods to detect bots, from software like Warden, to data mining techniques that detect bot-like behavior like running around in circles 24/7.
Truth is, in a successful game, you will always have botters. The only response that is unacceptable is to make the game less fun or rewarding for legitimate players because of it. We play because games are fun and rewarding. Game companies seem to learn lessons slower that most and also seem to have greater difficulty reality-testing potential solutions to problems.
You will only be able to congratulate them on getting rid of bots when 3rd party sites no longer exist because they no longer have gold to sell. So, it’s a bit premature to congratulate them as the sites are still bustling and there will be no positive impact on the economy though anything they have done to date.
The problem with a poll initiated like this is that it will have no value in determining what people think about Ascended gear. Google terms like poll, polling, “sample size”, “random sample”, n=30, etc. There’s a wealth of information to demonstrate that there is no reason to initiate a poll that seeks to understand how players feel about a new gear tier and grind via a post on a forum.
This is a very important point because using that argument is actually nothing more than an ad hom attack.
Actually no, you’re mixing up your fallacies, technically it’s argumentum ad populum. Ad hom would be saying you’re stupid and thus your argument is wrong. An appeal to the majority is when you argue that 1 million people can’t be wrong, or that the minority must be wrong because they do not agree with the majority. Although I guess you could twist argumentum ad verecundiam in order to support the opinions of the minority while negating the opinions of the majority.
But point taken none-the-less.
Yeah, “Vocal Minority/Silent Majority” is basically a variation on argumentum ad populum. “I’m right because I have more people on my side.”
It’s also a False Dichotomy, because it takes complex controversies with a complex range of responses and divides them into neat little “For” or “Against” piles.
It also misses the point. Minorities matter in this community, vocal or otherwise. Pretend you have some reliable means of polling, and you discover that 75% of players are in favor of or neutral toward a design decision, while 25% of players are against it.
25% is a pretty obvious minority, but what if those 25% play less and spend less and participate less? Suddenly the minority matters. And it doesn’t even have to be 25%. If even 1 in 25 players stop playing for a few months because of a certain design decision, that’s a pretty massive loss.
This happened in Cryptic-era City of Heroes too. They implemented the massively unpopular Enhancement Diversification system. The forums exploded with outrage. A lot of players critics as a “vocal minority,” but they left. Not nearly enough for a majority, but easily enough to cause a very visible dent in subscribers, which Cryptic didn’t recover for a while. Paragon developer BackAlleyBrawler talked about the phenomenon a few years ago.
Minorities matter more than we think.
Eveningstar, I must say I enjoy your posts. They are holistic in a way I can’t seem to pull off. Whereas mine deal merely with the rightness or wrongness of issues, yours deal with rightness and wrongness on more levels and everyone tends to get included. Just an appreciation.
I think that the more logical take-away from a consideration of the issues is that there is no such thing as a vocal minority on the forums or in the game as a whole. What we have on the forums are voices of players and they are either in the majority or the minority; again there is no vocal minority. As far as the game as a whole, we here, have absolutely no way of knowing one way or the other what the majority or minority thinks. We do know that the forums are the official channel for 2-way communication so the population here would be significant for the purposes intended by the forums. Be very careful about people who suggest that majority opinions in any given population actually represent minority opinions, vocal or otherwise. It is simply a weak device that is employed to say I don’t really have a rational argument to put forward but whatever you do don’t believe the majority of people giving you the other argument because they are actually the minority. It’s the ultimate non sequitur, it simply does not follow. I think this should be clear on the face of it, but still we have people talking about a vocal minority when they have absolutely no way of knowing, whatsoever, whether they are minority or majority of the total population, only that they are vocal. It’s sad that the discussion proceeds on these irrational grounds.
It’s actually much better to accept that here we have a population. It is the population of players using the official channel for 2-way communication. Does it represent the total population? No, it represents the whole population of those who use the official channel for 2-way communication. No one commenting knows what the majority thinks.
I have 11 characters and considering them all, strengths and weaknesses, it would never occur to me that a mesmer needs a nerf as it stands. I have only one profession that could, uh, use an adjustment—but I’ll will leave it unnamed, fearing a nerf. Professions need to be balanced with effective challenges/counters to other professions and the environment. Obvious peaks and valleys need to be addressed. But, I’m sorry, I just don’t see mesmers falling into either category at the moment. I’m pretty happy with where they are.
One thing I did that helped after the patch was transfer to a higher population server. The server I was on was fine before last weekend, but emptied out afterwards in terms of the open world. Now, just the sheer number of players on the server I’m on outweighs the loss of grinding or disgruntled players. Tbh, the new server feels a lot like the old one did (except in LA of course—there the fragmented community still stands out) and there are enough people to do group events again.
Having played many characters in power/crit or condition dmg builds it’s not hard to tell which has the highest sustained dps, and it’s not the condition builds. And, I am considering the dynamics of DOT vs direct damage. But, I’m talking about my perception of sustained damage. We don’t really have much in the way of metrics on this. There’s really no reason for this with a condition build; when I left WoW the Affliction Warlock had the highest sustained dps (there you do have metrics) and it’s damage was largely over time. There is no theoretical reason why condition damage should do less overall damage in a given times span than direct damage.
if you know how to maneuver around or an opponent and dodge or know how to build up your class to counter theirs then the gear really doesn’t matter as much.
What if the other player also knows how to play his class? People are always assuming you’re playing against weaker classes or clueless players when it comes to this. Losing against an opponent in WvW will always have that “was he actually better or was it only his gear” feeling in the future (assuming ascended gear won’t be as easy to get as exotics).
The gear is going to give them what… 45 extra points towards his overall stats? If the battle isn’t won by a landslide, then the loser should just assume there was a way to win and that they should find it for next time.
Wondering if it’s gear that made someone else win is an excuse for people to continue not being the best player of their class… one should always strive for better and if you think that’s not possible then there should be nothing to worry about.
Because if you did your best and can’t think of any improvement and still lost, the devs have yet to finish balancing this game and it’s more likely their fault than any gear difference.
if everyone starts out with a baseline of 100 or a 1000 total stat points 45 more is a huge difference maker whether its 50% or 10% matters not the difference is the same.
Heres an example simplified so even a laymen can understand. You take 2 players same class , same trait distribution, same everything cept gear put one in full exotic and put other in ascended now simultaneously hit each other using same attack the person with the higher power, crit and health pool will always last longer no if’s and or but’s.
That is why they have dodge rolls and you don’t sit still in one place the whole time. Also, what are the chances of two people having the EXACT same traits, abilities and strategies? Gear DOES have a noticeable difference, whether its big or small, but with how they made combat here skill is important. Also, based on one post under “announcements” here on the forums, pvp is NOT going to be affected by the Ascended gear at the present time (they said that it may be implemented into wvw, but with the number of players in WvW gear really doesn’t matter nearly as much there. Sounds like they are testing things out for the time being.
I think the assumption is that they are identical in every way. So, their skill in playing the game is equal; they both know how and when to dodge. The one with the better gear (even if only slightly better) will always prevail. That’s why they have metrics around gear scores in grindy games. Everyone knows that having better gear gives the player an edge.
I love the way you suggested that they ‘“bent” but [had] not “broken” the promises to a slight degree.’
It reminded me of the Monty Python sketch the ministry of silly walks. No matter how silly the walk or the reason for the ministry, everything was conducted with a very straight face.
Sometimes the way people attempt to justify something obviously wrong on the face of it, with a straight face, simply amuses me. But, anyway, thanks for the memory. I love Monty Python.
There is hope. It’s still largely a great game. There are predictable aspects of the patch that are already having negative effects but you can play for hours without noticing them too much. (Edit: I had to transfer to another higher population server to address the empty world problem. Mine, which was fine before the patch, became dead.)
We are currently waiting for an explanation for the change in direction. It’s only then that we can assess the situation as to the longer-term viability of the game. I still have hope.
Yeah, out of control RNG is salt on an open wound when coupled with a gear grind. RNG itself is not a bad mechanism to employ in a loot system. The key is the loot system needs to be tuned so that the player experiences anticipation around loot. He or she should always feel that that precursor or cosmetic skin or whatever they are after is possible, even if very rare. It’s a delicate balance. On the other hand, you can’t really have truly “rare” items with a gear grind, it’s not the way the grind-mind is wired, and it’s probably just inexperience with grindy games that produces the current problems with RNG.
I would be in qualified agreement with you on this. I have not lost faith entirely in the game. ArenaNet has made a misstep in trying to appease those who bought a baseball and want to play football with it. It has already had a negative effect on the quality of life in-game. It will only get worse if it continues. And they’ve introduced the very thing they said they were not about—a gear grind. The key will be in how they handle the crisis. They can come out of it integrity intact but we will have to wait and see. I love the game and would love to continue playing it for years to come. I have not yet lost all hope and have not quit the game.
Just because people are playing doesn’t mean they are happy with the changes. No metric will tell you the state of mind of a player. I find it rather foolish to even put forward as proof.
Right, they should just go by what a few thousand posters say on the forums over and over again on 3 dfferent sites. Good point.
You act as though a few thousand is a small amount. What a sorry state this industry has fallen into.
So if hundreds of thousands end up liking it, they don’t count? Asking people to keep it in perspective and consider the wider audience and lets see where this goes. They will give that gear out like candy at some point, I’m sure of it. Were exotics difficult to get?
Why would we even consider factoring in hundreds and thousands of opinions that we couldn’t possibly know. You seem to be making the logical error that your view is in the majority again.
Let’s have some perspective here, have you ever heard an exec say…
‘Yeah, we screwed up our last plan up big time. We alienated our costumer base, rendered most of our other models useless, and stood against everything we used to stand for.’
There is wisdom here. And, this is certainly a feature of either the rock or the hard place in the current PR event. One thing they can do is be honest and forthcoming about their future intentions and its implications for the Manifesto. They can make it sound good as long as they tell us what the “it” is.
How is it a boatload? Because you don’t like it, so it’s crap. Vocal minority again.
It’s a boatload, for one, because you are using the same device you decry in others. As you elsewhere cogently allude to, we really don’t know what the majority thinks. So, how do you know your opposition is a vocal minority? It’s best when you engage issues to actually engage with the issues rather than using weak devices like suggesting your opposition is simply the minority and therefore irrelevant. What we have in terms of the forums are simply the population of people who use the forums. It is the official medium for 2-way communication so it represents a significant population regardless of whether it is representative of the whole population or not. They are here for a reason and they are fulfilling their purpose.
My only advice… stay away from this forum. Stick the the ‘players helping players’ and the various class forums.
Don’t mean to be a troll, but he left WoW because of the gear grind. The new patch is “slowly” introducing that same system. Why hide the truth from him? Though I agree that a lot of thing said on this forum is incorrect, but some of them do have their merit.
As for twisted.4683 the game is great, just for most of us right now in its current state. 3 month ago I could see myself playing this game for years to come. Don’t let what I just said discourage you, just letting you know what has happen so far.
This game has nothing even close to WoW’s gear grind.
I played WoW for years and its grind is dwarfed by the one introduced by GW2. I liked battlegrounds and I could get a PvP set in a couple weeks at my rate of play. Same with PvE. Have you done any number-crunching around the current Ascended gear? And, what do you imagine a full set of Ascended will cost in terms of grind? You are correct that the two are not comparable, but you have them turned around in terms of the level of grind in the grind.
There could be two factors in play in terms of your empty world problem. There is definitely one problem and that is FotM. People are less likely to be leveling alts when there is a clear path to power. People don’t want to be left behind so they have hopped on the treadmill. I believe this will be a permanent problem as the cost of the grind really isn’t possible for someone like me with 11 characters.
The other possible factor is your server. I had to transfer servers after last weekends event because mine became empty in the open world. My new one is a little better and I’ve found it more possible to have a group for group events. The transfers are still free so you might want to research servers and think about a transfer.
This is why Arena Nets direction will kill Guild Wars 2. It’s not the direction that, I believe, the game was originally designed to take. Horizontal progression has always been Guild Wars’ trademark. This is not horizontal progression.
Thanks for the link. Education is probably the best medicine for those who think “vertical progression” spells end-game or even goes anywhere. There is a reason why it’s called a treadmill. As people learn more about game design there will be less call for elements which are recognized as just feeding the hamsters. Hamsters like treadmills but they have a very short attention span and will never be satisfied on their journey to nowhere.
GW2 is a fantastic game. The misstep will only kill it if it keeps going in the same direction. You’re right that the negative effects of the departure from the vision are already felt throughout the game, but they could admit their misstep, turn around, and return to the vision. A vision/philosophy/manifesto is like the DNA of a game. The game should always evolve along the lines of its DNA. Radical change usually gets a cancer diagnosis.
Yes, one of the negative effects of introducing a massive gear grind is the effect on those of us with alts. I have 11 characters. It is a daunting task to do the grind for one character let alone 11. It pretty much takes the fun out of play. I just think about all the work involved if I want to keep up. You’re not alone in your concern.
There wasn’t a gap to bridge, actually. Exotics and Legendary shared the same stats—no gap. Legendary was in the game to provide a heroic feat that heroic heroes could accomplish to distinguish themselves. All the distinctions in the game in terms of gear were cosmetic they didn’t cause the problem of power creep which the Ascended gear does. The problem with the Ascended is that they actually. really create a gap between players, that wasn’t there, that affects how they will be able to play the game. Please don’t think this can be justified by reference to degree of power creep. Power creep creeps; that is its nature.
BTW, Elementalist is a fantastic class, I have one, but they are, in my opinion, the highest skill cap in the game. Whereas other classes have 2 weapon sets, Engineers are a little different, the Elementalist has, effectively, four weapon sets. Knowing what to use when takes more skill and effort than, say, a Mesmer or Necro, if you like the Scholar professions. Really depends on the kind of playstyle you like best. Elementalists are great and I always like to see one show up for a Dynamic event or whatever. They contribute a ton of damage. Asuras make for an excellent choice for the Scholar professions regardless. They are smarter after all.
The awesomeness of Asura animations make them more enjoyable to play than other races.
Also, if you’re not an Asura, you’re a bookah, and who wants to be a bookah?
I forgot about animations. Asura is definitely best. All of them. I have an Asura Warrior which is kinda against lore and type but their 100 blades animation is head and shoulders above the Norn and Charr, which I have. Asura just rocks across the board. The one area where the lack, in my opinion, is armor. Humans, with the possible exception of Norn female medium cultural T3 armor, is probably the best looking. I have a Norn female Ranger in T3 and she is the best looking of them all. Still recommending Asura though.
I have them all and like them all. Asura is my favorite overall as I like the cultural ethos and they navigate best, i.e., best for jumping puzzles and tough vistas. I have an 80 warrior, charr, and he is beast, but I love my Asura Mesmer best. If you like to kite, they do a lot of damage and stay out of trouble really well. My fav anyway.
2) They’re adding more of it, which implies that each new dungeon will gate content by requiring more of it.
That’s a big assumption. And a lot of this panic people are having seems to be based on making huge assumptions.
It really has nothing to do with assumptions. Google “power creep” +"game design", and be sure to watch the video that will pop up in the search. A lot of people have had a lot of experience in gaming and have done a lot of thinking about elements of game design. The “panic” you see from most is based upon experience and a critical thought process and lot’s of info from game design theory. Once you’ve acquired experience in a given area you tend to devalue making assumptions as there is no need to and it’s bad practice anyway.
I wanted to post this video to give people an idea of why power creep (aka gear treadmills) can be devastating to video games.
Now, I’m not trying to trudge up the argument, because in all honesty I feel those that felt strongly enough about this turn of events have either accepted it or left already.
EDIT: Reason: Poorly stated comment
This video gives a very well balanced argument towards combating power creep, how power creep can happen in video games, and what power creep can do to a game’s longevity.
(This video in no way has an opinion towards Guild Wars 2 that I know of. This is just a phenomenal series on youtube that gives insight towards game development)
Thanks for the post and link. I, too, like this series. It would be great if more people took a deeper look into game design and the theory behind it. It would certainly improve the quality of posts. Too many people are addressing the issues raised by the patch tangentially. Notice that posts by supporters of a gear grind are talking about how insignificant the power creep is. (If it were not a significant change, why would they make it? I generally don’t focus on doing insignificant things.) The issue at hand is rather the change in direction and the introduction of power creep, not the degree of the power creep. It is the nature of power creep to creep. We already know this and don’t need to wonder where it’s going. I think that the company understood the issues well and evangelized strongly for a more modern take on game design. At this point, we can only guess what their motivation for regression is.
I tried the MF at one point and decided it was not for me. It would be much cheaper to play the slot machines in Vegas and use the $ won to buy gold in the gem store if you’re jonesing on the gambling aspect. Heck, I once went to a casino in Reno and came out 45 cents ahead. It would be much faster at that rate than using the MF.
It’s hard to come up with a game that bridges the age/ability/values spectrum you have going. Personally, I’m sticking with GW2 at least until they make clear what they were thinking with this patch. And it can not suggest they were bridging a gap (there was none until ascended) or adding a new plateau—just too many adults playing the game for those justifications. At any rate, I’m in till then. I still love GW2 and am completely ok with allowing them to iron out the wrinkles in a new product. I am not ok with their changing core design philosophies that they evangelized. Hey, I jumped on board. GW2, if it reverts to its vision, will be a ground-breaking game that just gets better with time. So, I suggest you give them a little time and at least hear them out on their gear-grind turnaround.
I haven’t done the FotM dungeons. Regardless of how well they are done, they are the Grinding Grounds to me. Doesn’t sound like to fun to me. I don’t like to prepare to have fun by grinding for a fun future reward. I like to have fun moment to moment.
Maybe they’ll release a version of LA without FotM that way it can be like the rest of the world and have barely anyone there?
I really liked the idea of a version of GW2 without the gear grind and fragmented community better. The only detriment would be maintaining two code bases. But, the classic servers could be viewed as an experiment in modern design theory where they would be free to implement their vision. They would also be able to make the standard servers as grindy and unfriendly as they want without hearing all the complaints from the player community who bought the game based on their vision.
They say they will continue to release new pieces.
This means a complete set with 20% more effectiveness WILL be part of this game if they are not convinced otherwise.
20% more effective stat is essentially a whole new 20 trait points invested in whatever line you choose.
that is HUGE. It is not at all insignificant.
Agreed, don’t listen to the pro-grind propaganda. The new gear, as shown by the posts here are 20-50% higher on the ascended gear. Don’t be fooled by the pro-grind crowd.
The gear is 20-50% higher, perhaps. The overall affect on the stat pool however.
My Ranger has 1846 power currently. He gains +30 upgrading to the Vine of the Pale Tree should he get it .The total stat increase is 1.625135428% when carried to 10 significant digits.
. . . please, explain more how the stats are 20% more effective, higher, or whatever.
What you are avoiding is the fact that there will be additional Ascended gear eventually. Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that the stats on a full set are 20% higher than exotics. The net effect will be an increase of 20%, not 1.625135428%. This should be obvious. And, the degree doesn’t even matter. That point is really moot. As I’ve said elsewhere, it’s the direction that’s the problem not the degree. What we are discussing is vertical progression. GW2 is a game about horizontal progression. My source on this is AreanaNet so take it up with them.
You seem to have largely missed the point. Grinding to stay competitive is only one detrimental effect of the introduction of vertical progression in the game. The issue is vertical progression itself as a concept. GW2 was represented as being a game about horizontal progression not vertical progression. To quote the manifesto: “It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.” Notice any logical problem there with the introduction of Ascended gear and vertical progression. Again, it has nothing to do with degree, rather it is about direction. The direction was clearly defined in the manifesto.
How the kitten is Anet responsible for auction house prices?
What is with you people its like you want some one to hold your hand or something.
You wanna fix the market buy it out.
UNDERCUTT everything.
Babies i swear.
You might want to read the piece on the site by the economist hired to control the economy. But, the short answer around prices would be drop rates. If an item drops more commonly it will assume a lower price in the TP. This isn’t a free-market. Anet controls the mechanisms for manipulating and controlling the economy and employs them to create a stable (the goal, not always the reality) economy. There are free market forces in play but this is anything but a free market. BTW, I don’t believe this is a negative, rather it is a good thing in a game.
Nope. I think it’s great when players experience reward for playing a game. (BTW, I didn’t get one.) And, more supply should mean lower prices. I think it was great to drop precursors as part of the event and am glad Anet is refining their concept of reward for play.
Definitely Rock Shark. It certainly earns the name over, say, the Rock Dog. I saw a Burrowing Dolphin yesterday. He was stuck as a botter trying to burrow into the sea floor.
You were perhaps being kind in not dissembling the concept of vertical a bit further. Vertical progression is a common place in MMO’s and many really don’t question it at all. Game design theorists do and they are not usually kind about it. There is no progression in vertical progression. They call it a treadmill for a reason. Every one starts the grind at power X. When they get off the treadmill they are all at power Y. The mobs have also assumed power Y. No one has gone anywhere relative to each other or the environment. There has been no progression, just tedious grinding of content. The only real progression in the current discussion would be to move on from the concept of vertical progression.
A permanent stat cap is a necessary feature to avoid the pitfalls and senselessness of vertical progression. ArenaNet had it right; it’s an idea whose time has come.
You are witnessing a PR event in action. The negativity almost all addresses a misstep Anet made in introducing a gear grind in thinly veiled disingenuous words. If they reverse themselves and stay true to their vision the event you are witnessing will subside within hours. Then the only negativity you will see will be from those who bought a basketball and want to play football with it, and probably insignificant in comparison. The game is great and if Anet succeeds in navigating the waters of their first major PR event in GW2, the game should only get better in the coming years.
well in my opinion, a fun lvl 80 maps doesn’t exist yet. I usually play in lower lvl area’s or dungeons just because they are far more exciting.
is there anyone not tired of undead things yet?
I’m tired of undead and any mob that can spam CC.
I haven’t been back since the event. Any DE that has a vet and adds is going to be difficult (tedious when possible) to solo. Even on the day of the event the place thinned out pretty fast. If you want people to play with it’s the fractals. But, you better have the right key to the gate.
Hey, glad to hear you are having a good time in the game. Me too. There are still moments (3 months in) where I just smile because they’ve done something so cool. If they stay true to their vision, this game should get only better over the years.
This has absolutely nothing to do with personal opinions. The issue, rather, is with the vision Anet communicated to customers. It has nothing to do with my opinion or your opinion; rather it has to do with the words of Anet when they introduced the game. Personal preference was an issue when people bought the game. It makes no sense to buy a product that aligns with your personal preferences and then find that they’ve decided to make the game conform to someone else’s personal preferences. If I buy a product that says it’s going to dye my hair blond, I’m not going to be happy with a product that dyes my hair brown. Was the decision made on personal opinion? Yes, I think my hair looks better blond. Am I justified in being upset? Yes, the product said it was going to dye my hair blond. This is straightforward, there are no questions of personal preference or opinion in the matter at hand.
I bought a product that promised to make my hair blonde. I could get more of this product whenever I wanted. The producers realize that some people aren’t happy with the shade of blonde that was received. They start seeing the numbers and mindset representative of people being ‘finished’ with their product, not buying any more of the bonus features where they were making their real money. They make a educated decision to make the product a little more brown, trying to find a place where both people can be happy.
I think if you want to be mad, be mad at the lack of transparency about the causes of this adjustment (which, fingers crossed, will be talked about in the AMA). The people who think this decision was made solely, or mostly, based of the forums are being naive.
I knew what shade of blond I wanted and bought; I bought the shade I wanted. The company made it clear what shade they were selling. I didn’t buy brown. It was made clear by the manufacturer what shade of blond they were selling. There’s no spin that will work with this, just a straight telling of the truth. Again, it has nothing to do with the preferences of people. The people who are upset know why they bought what the bought.
Why did you make this statement? Who was it directed at? What are you referring to?
OP is weighing his personal opinions vs what Anet did. We have access to none of the information they have. It seems dumb to ask them to change something because you don’t like the precedent when we’re not going to talk about all the positive and negative effects on the game.
This has absolutely nothing to do with personal opinions. The issue, rather, is with the vision Anet communicated to customers. It has nothing to do with my opinion or your opinion; rather it has to do with the words of Anet when they introduced the game. Personal preference was an issue when people bought the game. It makes no sense to buy a product that aligns with your personal preferences and then find that they’ve decided to make the game conform to someone else’s personal preferences. If I buy a product that says it’s going to dye my hair blond, I’m not going to be happy with a product that dyes my hair brown. Was the decision made on personal opinion? Yes, I think my hair looks better blond. Am I justified in being upset? Yes, the product said it was going to dye my hair blond. This is straightforward, there are no questions of personal preference or opinion in the matter at hand.
Yes, I am very disappointed with the direction. I just traveled through Lion’s Arch on a character I’m leveling and map chat is a fragmented mess. Sad to see as the basic game is just so good. I love the incentives for people to play together and help each other. Really don’t understand what they were thinking with this—hope the convo with Chris clears up their lack of thought process with the introduction of ascended gear and gated content.
Yes, not even addressing the wrongness of grinding gear in a non-grindy MMO, Anet has added the mother of all gear grinds by any measure. Really grindy MMO’s are easy by comparison. I assume it has to do with the inexperience of Anet with gear grinds as they have been vocally opposed to them in the past.
I agree that if you are absolutely resigned to creating an elite raider sub-culture in the game, gating content in such a way that no other aspect of the game is affected is preferable to gear-based stat inflation. But I don’t even like the idea of gated content. One of the things that GW2 did really right was to give incentives for people to play cooperatively and well together rather than behave like rats in a cage. It was brilliant and I’d hate to see any fragmentation based on classes of players.
I like where Azjenco was going with a traits or skills/abilities based approach. And sets of skills that both offer effective challenges and counters among the professions and npc’s would provide an incentive to build your quality of play rather than feed the false sense of progression that attends a gear grind. I am not thinking about a skill grind but more in terms of overall game design. I almost think it would be worth the time to educate players on current thinking in game design rather than appeasing them through making bad design choices which negatively affect all players.
I think a compromise that will satisfy all camps will be hard to come by on this. It’s probably better to have a vision, evangelize it, and focus on satisfying those who have come on board. If it’s an idea whose time has come there should be a good number joining up. And it could be blazing a trail that one day leads to a more satisfying experience for all gamers.
Edit: Btw, thanks OP for creating a well-reasoned post that is constructive. This is exactly what was is needed right now. Thanks for making the effort to do it.
Many of us have said our pieces for or against the recent changes. Repetition does not make something more true.
The repetition is not to make anything more true. What you are witnessing is a PR event. The repetition exists because a meaningful response hasn’t been made. When this occurs, people feel they have not been heard, so they keep bringing up the issue as they believe that silence will equal acceptance, which it actually would. It’s pretty much a textbook business crisis. The steps to manage it are in the same book.
We had our experience ruined, we use the forum as its meant to (see give feedback in quality and quantity)
But hey someone who have his particular visionof the game don t like negative feedback so lets all stop posting….
Try to do what you are asking us, pretend negative comments are all positive as you ask us to pretend all is like 1 week ago….
No they where not positive a week ago or a month ago its been non stop ppl jump from one thing to another and its not like they are making one post about it they go on and on if any thing its the ones who keep making the same thread over and over saying the same thing over and over who are the selfish ones because they seem to want the game to be bad as they think it is for them self and EVERYONE should feel the same way they do. So what they are doing IS making these forms a bad places to go to for any info or any reasonable talk about the game.
Your experience of the game forums is completely different from mine. I admit up front, I did not visit the forums often, but when I did they were generally positive. Sure, you had occasional angry posts; what game doesn’t pull in a few angry people? What I’m saying is the overall tone was generally positive and constructive, supporting what the game was, noting things that needed to be fixed, but nothing even close to what it’s become since the patch. The difference is pretty dramatic; I doubt the moderators are missing it.
as you ask us to pretend all is like 1 week ago….