Guild Wars 2

Hard to Catch suggestion:
Change Dodge to a non-stunbreaking Shadowstep back, instant and doable while CC’d.
Or change it so that you can press F2 or dodge or stomp/interact while CC’d to activate the backwards port, as Hype.8032 suggests.

The current state of HtC is not viable. I’d like the update to happen and move it back to Grandmaster. It’s worthy of that.

If you don’t establish a starting point of change you’ll never adapt though…
I bind my keys with influence from Taugrim, when I followed his posts back in beta.

WER to move,
D to dodge
Q to heal,
T to stomp/interact
ASF utilities
G elite
ZXCV and F1-4 Class Mechanic
1-5 skills

I found it incredibly awkward at first but now my hands need barely move to hit the desired ability.
I’d say you need a few weeks to develop the muscle memory, modestly.
If you game hardcore a few days is all you need.

Outside of the Shield of Wrath and JI combo Guardians don’t have major burst skills.
As Silven has suggested SoW -> CoL -> ZD + VoJ + JI + Smite Condi -> Torch 4 is pretty reliable. CoL into Torch is easily seen and people can push some evades.
You are pretty much reliant on Autoattacks on the Sword and your Scepter after the initial SoW opening burst, there’s not a lot you can do. They do hit pretty hard though and Sigil of Flame helps.

GS can be run with meditation, I’ve seen some builds like 10/25/30/5/0 with Flame Legion runes that sacrifice sustain for Burn duration and something like a 25% damage boost when your enemy is on fire, and WW can hit for something like 7k, Leap of Faith can do 4k in sPvP on glasscannons. The rotation is SoW -> RoJ -> CoL -> WW pre-cast + JI + Smite Condi + VoJ -> LoF -> BB -> Auto

First button press spawns turret, gives 2520 healing + regen.
Second button press activates Overcharge, giving 2520 healing + regen + 3 second Water field. Also removes 2 Conditions.
Press F1 when turret stowed spawns regen + 1 second Water field.
Press F1 when turret deployed for a Blast finisher. Water + Blast = Area 1320 healing.

Sustainability: Press heal quickly twice then F (Interact) to stow to reduce CD to 15 seconds.
Burst healing: Press heal quickly twice then press F1 and combine with multiple blast finishers to proc Area Healing (Water + Blast) repeatedly.

Yes, Water Field + Blast finish has longer CDs, but you can combine multiple instant blast finishers depending on what you are running with, to spike heal AoE reliably. The only thing in the combo with an interruptable cast is the F1 skill itself at 0.25 seconds. Turret heal is also not easily interruptible at 0.5 second cast.
Medkit does have more healing on its own, but you cannot utilise the 1-5 skills if immobilised, and it has to be cast over 1.5 seconds. The heal itself is a 1 second normal cast that can be interrupted well with skills like Doom or Headshot.
We can talk numeral, and also temporal. I believe the consideration has to be encompassing (which I have not done well).

I understand the improved quality-of-life with swiftness stacking + Rune synergy, but the removal of 2 conditions every 15-20 second (Turret) vs 1 every 15 (Medkit) is also a QoL thing. Healing Turret CD is also not that far from the Rune CD of 10 seconds. To be honest, I rather like offensive runes and I’m not so sure I want to build so defensive. I also like the blast finisher from detonation, but in the end, it is a preference what you want to run. I have no problem with kit-switching to get swiftness; I also kit switch for the vigour as well.

I’m happy that we are discussing with civility. This is only my opinion, and sometimes I can be stubborn and resistant to change. But, I’ve been reminded a few things about Medkit and traits I have forgotten about, and I’m appreciative.

I’d assume Speedy Kits is in every build, but I guess it isn’t. Thank you for the heads up. On the same note, Healing Turret gives AoE regen, which Medkit doesn’t.
You can also split up Healing Turret healing by using the toolbelt skill Healing Mist to blast finish off of, for 1320 AoE healing each. I think that was the amount Medkit skills 1-3 healed for before the reduction.

Indeed. I’ve missed out the Toolbelt reset trait altogether. Big mistake on my part. I was trying to be fair, but I was not as experienced with the Medkit as I thought I would be.
I have rarely run with 15 in Tools for the past few weeks. If you use that trait, you get good spike healing for sure, but you are limited to a trait internal CD (90 seconds is huge) and 25% hp, a risky predicament, and you won’t always have LoS or blocks/blinds to protect it with. Healing Turret blast finishes would be on relatively low CD, with a few 20-30 second skills. I remember back when Engineer Bunkers are viable, I used to stack bandages on the side of a point all the time. It does promote you to stay in the area though.
My experience with the Medkit was that I would use it primarily for the Fury, which means I will be using a squishy Power spec, and often I would die to bursts before the trait comes into play, and even then I would be a priority target due to my low health. There wasn’t a real choice between the 2 heals back then, when Healing Turret was extremely lackluster.
I am biased because I’ve been using the Healing Turret to great effect when fighting Condition classes, and I’ve had situations where Healing Turret area healing helped teammates survive.
However, I can see how it can be viable in a high survivability spec and used for healing sustain. 3k+ healing may just be the difference in the long run.

Healing Turret gives 2 condition removal instead of 1 from Medkit.
Healing Turret has 0.5 second cast time making it very hard to interrupt even with anticipation. Medkit Bandage Self is the standard 1s cast heal. Good players can interrupt very easily. Counter with LoS or blind.
Healing Turret can be combo’d with various abilities to Area Heal with Combo Blast Finisher. In an emergency Healing Turret + Detonate (water field stays) + Shield 4 Detonate + Rocket Boots should give you a high healing spike with CC and movement.
Medkit Healing on paper is higher with the 1-3 skills, however you cannot utilise them when immobilised and each bandage has a 0.5 second cast time, and although you can use them to the fullest out of LoS, that’s 1.5 seconds you are not outputting CC or damage.
Healing Turret gives regen that can stack with Backpack Regenerator that will sometimes save you from clutch situations, but I’m sure some will argue Medkit gives more healing.
Healing Turret has a 15 second CD if stowed and you can stow it even when you are kiting forward, you just have to be quick with Overcharge -> Stow turret. Harder with Super Speed on, but that’s a rare exception.

Healing Turret is 5040 heal + 8 second 130 regen = 6080 heal
on 0.5 second cast-time,
15 second CD OR

Healing Turret is 5040 heal + 8 second 130 regen + 1320 x max 4 times Blast finish = max 11360 heal
on 3-0.5 second cast-time,
20 second CD
(Combo: Big Ol’ Bomb -> Healing Turret -> Overcharge -> Detonate + Shield 4 + Big Ol’ Bomb Detonation + Rocket Boots)

Medkit is 4920 + 1000 × 3 = 7920 heal
on 1+1.5 = max 2.5 second cast-time,
20-15.5 second CD.

Medkit is better for Power burst as it can have minimum 10 seconds of fury for the Rifle-Grenade-Toolkit-Slickshoes CC spike combo to crit more.
Healing Turret is better for Condi removal, safer healing (harder to interrupt), and quick spike healing via usage of water + blast finish. Also more self-combos with Fire Bomb and Smoke Bomb for Might and Stealth, respectively.

Adamantium.3682:

Gah! Why do people keep suggesting certain fields take priority over others!? It does not happen, the oldest field is always used.

In the context that Smoke Field from Smoke Bomb is applied first; sorry I was unclear. But thanks for the clarification.
The healing combo and the stealth combo are still best used away, in the peripherals of a team fight, in my opinion, due to the many existing fields on a point/in the centre of the fight. It’s very rare, but there could be times when you want to stealth res/deny stomp with Smoke Bomb + Magnetic Shield/Healing Turret Detonate and you apply another combo instead. Smoke Bomb + Rocket Boots can be done from afar and is a bit more reliable in this aspect.

@ Chaith: Indeed. Either go Rabid Condi or Zerk Rifle + at least Protection Injection. Thank you for the idea, I was testing out Slick Shoes with Power specs since I ran it with Condi builds, and I’ve wanted to see if it’s viable in aggressive combos. I’ll keep protection built-in now, since I want to live past any CC-spikes. Even if I react correctly I feel as vulnerable as a Necro when a Thief decides to train me. We can quick gib Necros and Engi’s and most things under 50%, but I feel Magnet is easily dodged if not used from behind/in stealth. And I’m pretty sure we know about the unintended quirks of Magnet when you want to be clutch, but it doesn’t…
In WvW I don’t have much experience, but I’ve seen 100% crit damage and all-out Yolo Zerker builds one-shotting more fragile players, and some crazy 3k rifle crits.

@Alkaholic: You can Hotjoin while Solo Que’d if you want to warm up that way. I don’t know how I endured the wait, but it’s around 5-8mins for me and I’m in the percentiles as I recall. Join immediately after you come out of a match and you’ll be set up faster. Set aside a few hours a day and I’m sure you’ll have the title in a week or two.

I love the concept of this build. I’ve run variations before. Glasscannons usually can’t eat the full combo due to lack of stunbreaks before dropping and you can do some serious 2k Rifle autos. Being on the receiving end of the combo with a Necro or an Engi (personal experience here…) hurts real bad.
I went 30/0/0/10/30 (http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUl0pic38SiF17IyoHdGpJaiKkffewWtFEC-TkAg0CnIQShkDJDSSksINsA) for Fury + Static Discharge and quick Grenade Barrage gibs but I do feel naked without at least Protection Injection. That trait is very dependable.

@Alkaholic: For a title grind, if you have a free day I highly suggest setting a target of 5 wins → 10 wins then a break. Couple that with chatting to good teammates/enemy players you meet. Time will fly by so fast. I also suggest a condition-based spec like (http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIq6Z37SiF17IyoCdmoH5nl5YfewWyFEC-ToAAzCuIaS1krJTTymsNNWY+B) because it’s easier to play and require less concentration/allow more mistakes than a Power-based spec. Then again I haven’t come across too many warriors and the Control spec with protection and blocks and all that juggling might just be the answer to those. I would love to see some Warrior tears.

Alkaholic.3875:

Don’t water field and smoke field override each other?

When you access Healing Turret as a pure Blast Finisher, you can avoid activating Overcharge, as that will spawn the water field. As mentioned above the smoke field will usually take priority anyway, but usually I leave out Overcharge.
Proper max stealth sequence is Big Ol’ Bomb -> Smoke Bomb -> Healing Turret (no overload) -> Magnetic Shield + Healing Turret Detonate + Big Ol’ Bomb Explosion + Rocket Boots

Use hotjoin to finish your daily. Or play trol- cough fun specs and run circles around people.
Solo que is good if you don’t have a team (like me…) and you want a fair-ish matchup where you play to win. Queue times are acceptable (5-8mins) on the scale of a few hours. I wouldn’t say often, but a fair amount of matches could be competitive to the last point which makes it thrilling to win or lose.
Issues such as afk’ers, DC’ers and uninspiring players may crop up here and there but they shouldn’t be a big worry.

Exactly why, with my limited playtime and off-peak online schedule, I’m always hiding in Heart of the Mists. I don’t have the hours to grind for gear and I don’t have the money from running dungeons/fractals/WvW xp trains.
Mind you, I already find this game very easily accessible. There were no itemlevels to meet, and you get free exotics from dungeons. I just don’t have the time or a best liked class I wanted to commit to.
I know I can get to 80 eventually and I know how to get things if I wanted a piece of gear, but I also understand that if I don’t put effort into equipping myself, I don’t deserve to be at the same level of geared-ness as those who put in all their time to achieve the best they can.
GW2 gave the impression that it had no grind, but the truth is, a large proportion of the players came here for the grind as a competition mechanism. Gear stats progression happened over a year’s period and finally came ascended weapons, and to be honest I thought it was slow for an MMO. GW2 did have a lot of sidetracks, with the live events and all, giving a lot of skins and titles and loot, and I think they are trying very hard to make this as non-vertical as possible but also maintaining a competitive player-base that is satisfied with their achievement levels. Over other people. Specifically.
I am content with just guild chat streaming in the background while I do menial things. How I play MMOs… however, I understand for the majority that is not what they came for.

some builds in this thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/CC-Dps-spvp-Build-1/first#post2830910

this is Chaithh’s rifle glass cannon, not included there:
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUl0piYnpSyF17IyoHdGptZgKkXfewWtFEC-TkAg0CnIKSVkrITRyisFNsA

Static Discharge cannot 100-0 anyone and works best on enemy glasscannons. Your primary victims are Necro’s with DS on cool down, and other Engi’s due to their lack of good stunbreaks. You want to start with terrain and opening advantages, always.
It is very hard to kill a good thief playing what his class does best, ganking squishy and low health targets, when you fit the description exactly. You have to land all your CC and have your team finish him off, trying to kite him as well as is possible. It will be difficult if you are running Tool/Rifle Turret/Goggles. You lack defensive options.
Best bet is clear blind with Blunderbuss, Overcharged Shot his BP stealth, Net Shot him and see if he has steal/shadowstep up so you know where to Crate him and get out. You can also try to Rifle burst him when he gets close but you have to be quick with immobilise. Watch the blind/headshot.

This is a Rifle Burst variant by Chaithh:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUl0piY38SyF17IyoHdGpJaiKkffewWtFEC-TkAg0CnIQShkDJDSSksINsA
Be sure to have fury on you before you Net Shot/Magnet -> point blank Grenade Barrage for 8k+. The CC from Magnet + Rifle 4 is usually enough to keep glasscannons on the floor long enough to finish off with your 2k rifle autos.

Here is also a post I made previously listing builds that some good players use:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/CC-Dps-spvp-Build-1/first#post2830910
You might want to try those out for yourself.

To be honest, there will not be a significant revamp of all skills and utilities happening in a short period. The fact is that it is a design issue, with 1 utility granting 5 unique skills and a class with only 1 primary weapon set in compensation, resulting in a perpetual need to use kits to retain average control/damage capabilities.
Realistically I will not wait for a huge fix, and just be content with 1 spec that is viable in a unique way and fits us in the meta, as in “We definitely need an Engi in our team”. Sadly it’s come down to kits, and I’m sorry for you.
To quote Blinx who said something somewhere, Viable > Variety, and he would rather have a single competitive spec than multiple not-so-good ones.

I think the perception came from observing the general handling of Bomb and Grenade kits. You need to apply a lot of skills with similar animations to put conditions on your enemies. However in a tight fight you don’t want to press the wrong skill and waste your immobilise, blind and poison.
With any spec carrying the Grenade kit you will try to apply in an order and finish with a few autos (Chill → Frag → Poison → Autos etc.) when opening a large team fight.
With the Bomb kit you will usually try to Fire Bomb → Concussion Bomb inside of Slick Shoes, Supply Crate, or after kiting someone into Glue Bomb/Stun with Static Shield. There really isn’t a lot of time to button mash at all if you want to apply the key conditions when there is an opening.

In general, you will liberally apply several bomb/nade skills and save interrupts and defensive cooldowns when someone goes ham on you. There are certainly more skills to press than most classes but definitely not in any random order. Button mashing doesn’t really get you anywhere unless your opponent shares similar ideals.

As a side note, I found the Water/Smoke blast combos amazing. You can spike heal very well, and perform stealth stomps and resses. Those require a bit of sequencing and combination to get off 4 blast finishers (e.g. Big Ol’ Bomb → Smoke Bomb → Healing Turret Detonate + Shield 4 Detonate + Rocket Boots) for healing/stealth/might. Adds a lot of depth to the class.

Bomb Auto and Fire Bomb will have radius increase from 120 → 180 and with Forceful Explosives Trait, from 180 → 240. Glue Bomb will have range increase from the same trait reduced from 360 → 300 I believe.

Details read from this post here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Alleged-leaked-patch-notes-10-15/first

On 4v5s:
It’s hard to change people’s habits and the AFK/disconnect issue is not going to be solved by enlightening players.
Besides making the notification easier to see/hear, the “queue pop” mechanic has to be modified so that failing to acknowledge the pop-up will grant the place to another willing and able player. It shouldn’t have been auto-join once submitted.
Doesn’t have to be a waste of anyone’s time if you set a limit of for example, 30 seconds to confirm. Even if you load late by 15 seconds into the game, it’s infinitely better than 4v5.
On SoloQ in general:
I still see games with stacked r40-50s+ on one side and r10-20s+ on the other. It will be almost always a waste of 10-15 minutes for the inexperienced team, due to factors such as class knowledge, player skill, map rotations, etc. It has occurred on a frequency enough to be noticed. Matching up games solely by leader board rank, I feel, is not perfect design and should be looked into.

S: Warrior, Necro, Thief
A: Guardian, Mesmer, Ranger, Engineer
B: Elementalist

Like VOIP’s where you can customise notification voices…?
I really don’t think it’s a huge issue, you’d be focussing on the game and trying to win rather than enjoying the uh, ambience.
But I see your point. Every time I read the title of this thread his voice booms in my head…

evilapprentice.6379:

Stop with this.

Honestly.

The game was built and balanced around down state. It’s not changing.

There are traits and utilities based around the downed system. Although it can be unbalanced, it is a valid mechanic and makes the game more team-dependent. Clutch stomps and resses are a game feature.

The Guardian with Stability through SYG! shout or Indomitable Courage will usually have Clerics on and sacrifice all damage for team support. If he can’t even res a teammate under fire what use would he be? To counter you can spec Shattered Concentration and remove Stability for your CC to work. You can also just stomp with F4 as a mesmer to prevent CC, or you can force his Down 2 and blinkstomp him.

Tbh, any competent offensive Guard + a Thief should get you in a 2v1 and you’d have no chance but to get away.

Hi, I’m relatively new to Engi PvP as well (~400 games) and I can recommend some “pro” builds that are tried and true for effectiveness.

Nade/Bomb Point Assault (Teldo):
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIqiY38ynF1LJyoCdGoC5lIF5nl95hcxWQIA-ToAAzCuIaS1krJTTymsNNWY+B
Condi-based build with great offensive setups using chill, stun and knockdown to deliver bomb condis, as well as great control with shield to interrupt heals. Nades offer a safe and effective teamfight option although you have very little escape.

Mightstack Teamfighter (Chaithh):
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqalIqiYnvSyF1LJyoCdGoC5lIF5n+95Bb9gQIA-ToAAzCuI0RFkLIjOycs5MWYKC
You have blocks and protection and you can also switch out Elixir R for more personal safety. This build has more burst and less control with ~12+ might stacks constantly.

HGH (Ostrich Eggs):
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqalspiYH5SdF17ICoC5loHPGlNZfewWPIEC-ToAAzCuI0RFkLIjOycs5MWYKC
This is not the precise build (I forgot…). You have the maximum amount of might stacking with this build and you blow people up incredibly fast, although you also get blown up just as quick.

Omega Ragnarok Dragonfist (Lady Steamhawke):
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUl0piYnpSyF17IyoHdGptZgKkXfewWtFEC-TkAg0CnIKSVkrITRyisFNsA
Again not the precise build but what I use… It is a Static Discharge variant using Grenade Barrage for a quick burst after Magnet/Net Shot. It is easy to dodge but you can setup in a teamfight. Rifle Turret Detonate + Surprise Shot procs 2 SDs.

Standard (somewhat) SD:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUl0pqdnpSyF1LJxoHdm0iGki86XRFy/nCsF-TkAg0CnIQShkDJDSSksINsA
Maximum SD burst with a stun break. Always make sure to have fury on you (Medkit great) so that everything crits for a huge spike.

A few ways:
1. Shroudstomping (it’s not exactly hard, practice a quick 1-2 on Shroud -> F or whatever you have for interact) [I’ve seen quick Shatters with Shattered Concentration trait + CC counter it properly, or a quick Necro Axe 3 + fear/Mesmer GS 3 + 5, or you can just be very surgical and wait for last moment of stomp to interrupt]
2. Lichstomping (wait till very last moment of cast and spam/press F)
3. Plaguestomping (at any point after stomp initiation, Plague is instant)
4. Well of Darkness stomp (just like Black Powder, yes there’s a long CD)
5. Guardian blind stomp with Dagger 4 (if you stomp immediately after down he will have no way to clear blind. Wait out invuln, blind then stomp safely)
6. Dodge stomping (dodge the Down 2 when you see the hand come up. Still faster than eating CC)
7. Corner Golem stomp (if you launch target while downed, he will not be able to use skills in the knocked down animation. Launch him in a corner/wall and your stomp will still reach him)

Necro do have long CDs on stomp options besides shroudstomping which can only be used in certain specs and seem like a bug, but it’s still very nice to have.
If we are talking strictly 1v1 downed state battle it could be tricky if you’re not power specc’d, since 50% downed damage helps a lot. If you are really low remember DS. If you have no DS spam all your condis on him to give yourself a headstart. Remember dodge stomping is still quicker than getting CC’d.

Normally Necro’s role in teamfights won’t be to stomp anyway unless absolutely called for. You do much more by AoE cleaving the downed target with conditions (poison slows rezzes) and spreading Epidemic to wipe everybody in a teamfight. Or at least weaken the Guardian doing his thing by blowing all his shouts and VoR.
With a Power Necro in extreme cases, use Lich + wells to take both the downed body and the rezzer out of the fight. In that case, you don’t even need to stomp… just Lich everything dead. Keep in mind reflects can ruin it.
Plague is well known to be used for stomp assist with blindspam.

2 1h-weapon sets. Seem very Danto to me. You’re putting on many blocks for burn on block but don’t use Shelter? Have you thought about Shaman amulet for extra burn damage?
Soldiers is a tanky setup but without Healing Power it’s difficult to sustain. With Soldiers you have a larger HP pool but it’s also difficult to restore to full, which means you will try to use the heal signet to compensate. Signet has 40 sec CD but same healing as Warrior Healing Surge (max Adrenaline) 30s and Troll Unguent 25s. That is… not a lot of sustain. Mind traits like Close to Death, Bolt to the Heart, Executioner that deal 20% more damage under 50%.
You mentioned Bunker > Support > Damage.
Soldiers is Power > Vitality = Toughness. Keep in mind power damage is lackluster and is only good with Precision and Critical Damage. You won’t hit that much harder than someone in Clerics. Shamans can also do damage through burns and you can still wear someone down (burn-block synergy here).
Healing power is around 1k for standard setup as it adds that extra bit to your healing (selfless daring, regen, VoR etc) and the condi cleanse keep poison off them. Granted you are a good player and can block and blind everything in 1v1, you will face ohcrap moments when you are focussed 3v3 and need to get HP spikehealed to some safe number; Clerics will do a better job.

From what I’ve seen you either go full
Support Control Bunker 0/0/10/30/30
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQNAreSlUgyDXFSLEf4ES2jRCBTQsHYEH1RXFcIA-TsAgzCoIySllLLTWyssZNIY9x8DA
Or a Variant with Extra Toughness but less Stability 0/0/20/30/20
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQNAseWlUgyDXFSLEf4ESmiRCBxegRcUHdpwhkIA-TsAgzCoIySllLLTWyssZNIY9x8DA
Or Symbol DPS + Extra Healing Support 0/5/30/30/5 where you can actually use Soldiers (Zerker is better)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQNApdWlUg67WFSLEfIFRuAbBYPw4H741DH+QGC-TsAg0CnISSlkLJTSyksJNsYZxkAA
Back in the days you will earn wtfs from zerker roamers using Triple Meditation Side Point Bunker 0/30/30/5/5 with 32 + 15 = 47% crit chance and Smite Condi + Scepter Bind + Sword ZD spikes. Some 1.2k Scepter Autos and 3k Sword autos.Don’t think it’s viable anymore however.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQRAsd7elYgaDHHSNEfIFRuArHE0g+DXw1DHSxGC-TwAA1CnIQShkDJDSSksINsYVymgJBA

But whatever works for you. Critiques may be made because of bias in favour of select “top” builds but run something fitting your playstyle. Try to see if you like the builds posted by Silven in the Guardian stickies.

Corian.4068:

I thought I’d update after the weekend. Changed builds again, rather than a control build that requires other players to maximize its effectiveness, I’ve switched to a tanky condition build that can win 1v1s, and that’s when I started meeting regular success. I’m not any better as a player than I was four days ago. I’m not more useful to the team. I’m just more able to win 1v1s. Apparently that’s the difference between a 10% win rate and a 70% win rate that I’ve had since changing the build.

It’s a bit of a disappointing realization, understanding that 1v1 builds are what gets success in solo queue, but I guess that’s what solo queue is. I hope more team-oriented builds and gameplay are occurring in team arenas. I’ll find out one of these days.

Yes, in solo queue condition or zerker roaming specs seem to be the most effective due to the lack of communication on the part of the 5 solo players. To be honest, I played for a long time as a Guardian bunker in solo queue (before the separation of group/solo) and although I am able to keep a point and hold out until someone comes to help, the match favours the side with good roamers.

What gives you a high chance of winning a game are:
1. They respond quickly to my calls (“2 mid,” “1 close,”, “I’m down close”);
2. Those with mobility play map objectives and not for points (like in hotjoin)
3. Those with mobility create outnumbered situations to quickly end teamfights on a node (e.g. Condi Engi comes into 2v2, downs Guardian and blind/small stomps). You need to understand how to rotate nodes as a team and this movement will allow outnumbering to occur. Forcing 2v1s and 3v2s ends fights quickly.
4. Personal skill does matter, but only up to a certain point when you are in your element with 1 class and 1 spec. You can put less attention on what skill to use and more on reading and properly reacting to enemy skills. Rotation will allow a lot of wins even if your enemy team has players outskilling you by a certain amount.
5. Lastly, 1v1 ability may come into play in clutch situations, but 1v1 specs will be able to 1v1 but not contribute as much to teamfights, generally speaking. You could snipe someone quickly but you will not be able to withstand massive AoE, either to stomp or res. (Although the playstyle in solo que is probably more roamy and therefore different)

Regarding Builds:
Also, make sure your spec has a purpose and does what it is supposed to. A lot of players want to be defensive yet give “balanced” damage output like in WvW but you don’t have a lot of stats to configure for it.
This may be counterintuitive, but try out the specs that top teams use. They have a role and purpose and they are good at it. Also play the different classes and specs and learn how they do their damage/control/support so that you know how to counter them.
Examples:
Condi Engi with Grenades and Elixir R: Great in teamfight for AoE conditions and fast res in clutch situations. Depending on loadout has some good CC and Crate gives good support.
D/P Thief: Drop target quickly with reliable blindstomps. A counter to Condi specs with little stunbreaks/stability (Necro/Engi)
S/D Thief: Brusier that forces offensive specs to defend themselves. Was a counter to the mobile Shatter Mesmer.
Condi Necro: Using Rabid Amulet, with low survivability if focussed. Very strong Condition pressure in teamfight and long fears can ensure down/stomp and res interrupt.
Bunker Guardian: Clerics, low damage with high healing sustain, blocks and condition removal. Known for AoE Stability “Stand Your Ground!” allowing many stomps. Strong in teamfights as an anchor and can hold out on a point (not as well as Engi/Ranger bunkers)
Spirit Ranger: Strong team support and instant resses via Spirit of Natural Renewal (Elite). Condition pressure via burning and great 1v1.
Stunlock Warrior: Counter-meta to Condi Necro. Low CD stuns and high damage tie them up and also with defensive specs able to bunker against conditions fairly well.

Many others… and I am not the most knowledgeable. Be sure to research, play with friends on Voice Communication software and learn a bunch.

I will suggest (http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQNAR8dlUgqCHHSNEfYFSmiVCBtFUVIewFc9AiooGC-jUyA4LBZySgICwpvhsmAjYhrIasKGM1JRUt7oIa1yAovAA-w) 10/5/30/5/20 because it is not mentioned. Nobody seems to like Triple Meditations (or Double with SYG!) but it offers frontloaded burst like no other and grants Guardians good stunbreaks, high instant heals and mobility.
This particular spec uses Knights + Valk mainly for 2953 Toughness and 14525 HP which will allow some mistakes. 2969 Attack with 75% Crit Damage. Using GS and Sword along with JI port utility, you have the best in-combat mobility a Guardian can strap on. You can get on top of P/D thieves.
If you want better condition removal, modifications as follows:
Retributive Armour -> Purity
Runes of the Eagle -> Runes of Lyssa
SYG! -> Contemplation of Purity (but you won’t get clutch stomps off/other clutch plays with Stability)

Tips (whether you need them or not…):
Don’t forget Focus 4 removes condi (if not blinded).
Focus 5 can be counted down (4 secs) and made to hit with JI or VoJ + Sword 2 port (to get 10% damage when burning).
You can blindstomp with VoJ and Focus and Sword (also assist a stomp). You can Aegis stomp with VoC and blockstomp with Focus 4. You can also AoE cleave the corpse by fighting over it with your GS out.
If you block a multi-hit attack with Shelter, you’ll get ridiculous stacks of might (like blocking through a WWrath, 100b + WWind, Unload etc.) which you should immediately capitalise on.
You can remove 6 conditions in an emergency with VoR -> RF -> VoR. You’re probably dead anyway.
Sword 3 is impossible to hit without some sort of knockdown/immobilise but you can make do with GS 5 pull. Better to use for things like Kill Shot or other projectiles. Tbh, with this much Prec/Crit your sword auto hits nearly 3k anyway and almost always procs sigil. Better than the channel. You can use Spirit Hammer/KD Signet to force people to eat Sword 3 though.

Other than that, 0/30/30/5/5 is pretty great all-round and you can use Scepter + Focus/ Sword + Torch for even better burst (and an Immob for Sword 3) but at the cost of mobility. Scepter 1k+ crits with Right-hand Strength is pretty painful already, not to mention the procs on Sword auto chain no.3.
The stickied Silven build thread has a Mace + Torch/ Scepter + Focus loadout for crazy AoE burst and you can look that up too.

My not-so-glamourous Guardian, Selne. I like short names.
Silver Lead/Starry Night on Orrian with Arcing Hammer for a solemn look.

I’m dirt poor in PvE/WvW, but I know this works…
Armour/Weapons:
Go Knights with Beryl Orbs. It’s a safe and effective option.
Accessories:
Full Knights with Beryl jewels or a mix of Knight/Valkyrie ring/earring/amulet.

When you are running in a PvE farm group, spec 0/5/30/30/5 and get Purity, Mace of Justice, Altruistic Healing for Valour line, then the Writ traits in Honour (Symbols larger, longer, heals). You can take larger symbols off for Superior Aria because you run shouts. Don’t forget you can take a shout off for Wall of Reflection for projectile heavy fights and other things according to needs (Save Yourselves usually).
Get Staff + Mace/Focus. Staff and Mace for symbols and Empower (heals for crazy amount with Altruistic Healing), Focus for the condition removal and block.

Don’t even need Pure of Voice in Honour trait line due to the amount of healing you get from spamming symbols in a group.

For WvW you should try a spec with 2-handed CD, Hammer + GS or Hammer + Staff…
0/5/30/30/5 or 0/0/30/30/10 or 0/0/10/30/30 are common.
If you play Zerk some run 10/30/30/0/0 or 0/30/30/5/5 with Triple Meditation and burst like a thief.
Ask around and find the spec you like.
Also, you cannot tank in this game. Guardians can take a few hits with blinds and blocks and invulnerables, but you will melt if focussed and especially in this condition heavy meta-game.

I made an Asura Guardian for a few reasons…
Role:
Always played tank/support classes in small groups (e.g. was a Blackguard in Warhammer, ran with healer + DPS gank groups) and I liked to feel helpful and needed. I loved the Guard’s CC, stability and condition removal. The group heals are a bonus.
Triple Meditation is also a guilty pleasure with Guardians, because few expect to fight one offensively oriented with surprising mobility. (Thieves beat us in ease of use and escapability, however)

Appearance:
1. Banish: 750 range blowout on a Norn with a hammer the size of a 500ml water bottle. Also hard to read (PvP reasons).
2. Zealot’s Defense: your Asura is airborne during the channel.
3. Heavy Weapons: on the move, Asurans make a tiny grunt as they prop the weapon on their shoulder and tilt their head forward to adjust the centre of mass with such a heavy weight. I find it endearing.
4. Stomp: nothing beats Asuran stability/blind stomp with the mid-air flip.
5. Heavy Armour: tiny little bugger that weighs a ton. Orrian set: Silver/Starry Night dyes + Arcing weapons are my current favourite.
6. Asuran Lore (somewhat): the two classes I feel legitly fitting the Asuran archtype are Mesmers and Guardians with their magical aspects.

Jax.5261:

Unfortunately, taking the variety of builds into account, the current bunker build is unlikely to change very much. Other builds just won’t bring enough toughness to the table to actually force a stomp or not enough utility, etc.
The only variation I’m thinking of at the moment is dropping one energy sigil, if you don’t miss any of your dodges you only need the one (except khylo). Having two will allow you to survive in futile situations a little longer but if your team does everything they should, it really won’t make a difference.
So something like a doom sigil (to use on the enemy bunker’s heal) or something like that may be the future for the bunker.

There is a way to make use of the symbols in bunkering but you do have to go 0530305 and you miss out on a lot of condition removal and control. I haven’t tested it with the new Shout bug which could mean it’s viable currently.

Soon after posting here, I looked around and found the 0/5/30/30/5 that you also mentioned. It is based on AH and Symbols and people seem to have been running around with it in PAX. A few choices for Valour 20 but other than that it’s really locked in. The build seemed to emphasize more on toughness and teamfight sustain but I’m not sure I want to run around with no AR/IC… there are a lot less failsafes and you rely on your team a lot more.

Jax.5261:

Sorry for the late reply, I’ve been in hospital.
I think you’re referring to the DPS build? I don’t use a Mace on a bunker, other people do due to Valor VII giving the bonus 250 heal power (which translates to 125 bonus dodge roll heals and the extra heals in regen) but I really don’t recommend it due to you missing out on snares completely by avoiding the Scepter.
If you were referring to the DPS build it’s designed to have much more sustain in team fights and 1v1’s but it doesn’t put out as much damage. It is very well spec’d for team fights.

Wishing you all the best in your recovery.

I do suppose what I’ve seen was the DPS build. I was assuming there would be use for a symbol build in bunkering, but I’m much more comfortable in the classic control bunker setup (I wonder if it would ever change… for the better, or if it even needs any change) and I don’t know what I was thinking… there was no way symbol passive healing could override the effectiveness of the standard loadout. Plus, I lose out on too much control (Resolute Healer, as well) to get the trait anyway.

Try playing with a lot of kits, they give you a lot of options, and also unpredictability and utility in PvP. Practice switching in and out of kits.
For leveling, always have 10 in Tools for Speedy Kits, you can get swiftness every 5 seconds if you keep switching kits. You will thus have permanent swiftness while leveling.
Engineer is a mid-range class, so melee is not a very viable option. You do have toolkit auto, but it doesn’t bring out the Engi’s specialty. You have Bombs and Grenades that can hit multiple enemies. When leveling I usually spec power. You can LoS pull 5 or more enemies around a corner and hit them with massive area AoE from Grenades, Bombs and your Rifle 3 and 5.
Experiment with Engi combo fields and finishers. You can self leap and blast plenty.
3 examples:
Smoke Bomb -> Big Ol’ Bomb -> Healing Turret (don’t double click) -> Healing Turret Detonate -> Shield 4 Detonate-> Rocket Boots; this is a Smoke field + 4x blast finish for AoE Stealth (up to 8~12 seconds, better than mass invis)
Smoke Bomb -> Rocket Boots (stealth somewhat distant teammates to prevent a stomp!)
Big Ol’ Bomb -> Healing Turret (spam click for water field) -> Healing Turret Detonate (water field will persist) -> Shield 4 Detonate -> Rocket Boots (Water field+ 4x blast finish AoE heal 1.4k+ each)

If you want to get the most out of Engi probably try fighting other players and try to counter them. There are a few tried-and-true solid builds that I suggest you look up:
Static Discharge PvP burst setup (Lady Steamhawke twitch)
Enhance Performance Condi PvP setup (Chaithh twitch)
Bomb Far-node Decap PvP setup (Teldo twitch)

Misc clutch skill usage:
Big Ol’ Bomb stomp (plant bomb on one side, walk to max stomp range on other and stomp; launch disables enemy)
Toolkit Magnet near an edge; Skyhammer: quick gib by walking over panel and pulling; Temple: stopping a far node rush by pulling into hole; setting up Prybar + Static Shot/Blowtorch + Glue Shot + Grenades/Supply Crate into quick condi gib.
Flamethrower: switch into before a stomp, FT 5 can be used mid stomp to blind.
Static Shot/Flash Grenade stomp assist: time it to a teammate’s stomp and blind the downed enemy.
Always keep Poison (Grenade/Pistol darts) on enemy if unable to instantly stomp; Condi Engi capable of devastating body AoE cleave.
Plant Big Ol’ Bomb if you know enemy Engi uses Elixir R and he about to go down. Knocks him out of self-res and blew his 120 second CD.

Hi Silven, many thanks for this post. Helped me keep interest in Guardian with the Meditation builds especially.
A quick question about the mace focus / staff setup for bunkers… What is the builds focus and would it need a specific team comp to run well. It seemed to be specced completely for teamfights.

Hi I’ve a bit of experience bunkering…
Before you heed any of my advice helpful or not, check out Silven’s build and guides which you can access by searching.
The classic control bunker runs 0/0/10/30/30 with following traits
Purity, Superior Aria, Twohanded Mastery/Resolute Healer/Writ of the Merciful, Pure of Voice, Consecrated Grounds/Master of Consecrations, Absolute Resolution, Indomitable Courage.
You use Cleric amulet with Knights jewel for the Vit and little Prec. Soldiers runes go well with Pure of Voice Trait.
You use Hammer and Scepter Shield. Scepter can be switched for Mace or Sword, and Hammer for Staff. Each weapon has unique control/defense aspects that you will build experience and feel for. We are all willing to give tips on combos and clutch skill use but not point of thread.
You want to fit traits around the weapons you use. Hammer and Staff benefit from 2h Mastery, Writ of the Merciful allows you to use Mace and Staff symbols to heal yourself. If you slot Resolute Healer, you can reliably secure a resurrection.
You may even opt to go 0/0/20/30/20 with Shield CD and forego Indomitable Courage. You get more toughness but lose a stability AoE. Your choice.

You will get 16.7k health and 2.8k armour. Guardians share the lowest health tier with Elementalists, Thief. They rely on dodge roll healing, VoR, And correctly timed CC to negate a lot of damage that would otherwise land. You also have Shelter block, and Renewed Focus that can nullify bursts but you must know your enemy. Your role is to stall, heal, buff, res, stability/aegis stomp, and pressure enemy best you can.
You will always run 2 shouts and the third utility can be switched according to opposite team’s setup. Wall of Reflection for Engineers, Sanctuary for teamfight res, Purging Flames for condi heavy teams, Judge’s Intervention for Kyhlo…. Etc.

Sadly there is no build for you to sit there and tank. To bunker is to actively and defensively counter your enemy. Mace Focus and Staff grant the most Passive healing, but also relies on using Block in a timely fashion.
Guard is also not the best 1v1 bunker. If you leave him alone, he will eventually die. As said in an above post, Guardians can bunk, but team support comes first and is also its greatest feature, stopping stomps, securing resses, giving boons and condi cleanses. They are the backbone and must actively be helpful.

Sword is great in PvE. Sword 1 does very high damage on last chain (with Zerker) and always procs VoJ passive, Sword 2 is a short port with a short CD (even without staff, if you get a GS as well you can jump around map very fast by targeting critters/far away mobs), and PvE mobs will stand there and eat the high damage Sword 3.

My friend is a RPG fanatic and since casual PvE means you can run around with any set, he always has Sword + Shield.

Christos de Soufre.3802:

The first build is trash, to be honest (that’s what happens when you play with build editors at 5 AM). I don’t think I actually intended to use it. I already have a shout build. Will probably just remove that.

The second build is trying to abuse the increase in MF scaling with healing power and somewhat emulate the enjoyment I get out of playing Soldier’s/Zerker triple med in sPvP. I can’t justify running full zerker in T1 WvW. My entire purpose in WvW is either group play or 1vX, and I don’t expect to catch groups of people well enough off-guard as a Guardian.

I’m also super lazy and don’t feel like farming up a millionth set of weapons, which is why the Cleric’s weapons are probably going to stay if I actually bother using meditations. I’m also spoiled to Selfless Daring really badly, which is why I sacrificed RHS for it in the medi build. I’m not super worried about doing tons of damage at once in WvW anyway.

Selfless Daring… sigh… I do miss that trait in offensive meditation builds. It adds a lot to Guardian sustain.

@ronpierce yeah, we don’t want the game to become a condi race…

I think something along the lines of condi cleanse causes damage would be great… sort of like a sister to Halting Strike. Or a buff to Smite Condition.

If only you could share % of damage of all condi on you… that would be great. Sort of like a reduced condi transfer.

What i said in another thread… here is the link to the 0/15/30/20/5 build.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/I-ve-just-started-playing-gaurdian-and/first#post2504299

If there’s a teamfight and 1 person is down and you try to stomp, you can pop VoC and you might block the fear/projectile/mesmer stealth/guard pushback/ranger stun, but there will be lag, and there will be AoE cleave from both teams. Your VoC will be stripped and you will be CC’d by coordinated teams.

As a Guard, the moment I see my teammate go down:
1. Already trying to get to him when low; immediately Resolute Healer res, depending on enemy team, pop SYG!. If you VoC that, I have Shield 5 (for multiple stomp attempts). If I don’t have Shield 5 and you are the only one stomping, I will swap to Hammer and Banish you. If you have me blinded I can VoR/Shout with Pure of Voice to ensure it lands.
2. Short distance, Sword port to nearest enemy to him, and double Shield bubble. Or run up to you and Zealot’s Embrace/Mighty Blow -> Banish.
3. Can’t reach in time due to immob -> Sanctuary (CC ticks once per second) on downed teammate followed by team res.
4. Has GS with Trip Med: JI (removes VoC) double tap Binding Blade.

The only time a Guard with his CCs off CD and not able to stop a stomp is because of stability. Good Necros can Corrupt Boon etc, Mesmers can shatter with Shattered Concentration trait to strip stability…

If I fail to CC you, at least I will remove your VoC so that the downed ability will land (without blind). If you don’t have stability, which is harder to get on other classes on longer CDs (including mesmer Distortion and Engi Elixir S of similar mechanic; necro Foot in the Grave is rare), you will get stopped one way or the other. Stealth is also not perfect and Guardian Sanc/Shield/GS can counter properly.

Blind is much better than Aegis in this regard. You can use your non-instant blinds like Sword 2 and Focus 4 to help stomp, and VoJ to do so yourself.

Just thinking you are in cleric/soldier hybrid which makes you durable… and not very bursty with low precision and critical damage. Then you have fairly offensive GS/Sword Focus weapon sets that benefit greatly from zerker stats.
Meditations are selfish and offensive utilities that offer good self-heal, condi removal and stun-breaks. With the new and bugged Merciful Intervention (6k heal) however, things could change.
You have 900 healing power, 16k hp and 3k armour, good enough not to get bursted, and tanky for a guardian (bunker stats actually). You only have GS 5 to prevent stomps. I suggest Hammer/GS, Hammer/Staff, Sword+Shield/Hammer or Sword+Shield Staff. All these offer more support not limited to MI (taking advantage of your ridiculous Guardian CC), and with your 2-handed CD, Empower will be a great asset to your team. Hammer allows a lot of your team’s burst to land (esp. with JI, and Zealot’s Embrace) and Mighty Blow is solid damage with a Blast Finisher (Ranger Healing Spring is a 15sec Water Field -> Area Healing every 4 seconds!).
Also, try and free up a slot for Wall of Reflection/other consecrations or “Stand Your Ground!” for stomps. Drop Aegis traits if you can as they are not reliable in a fight whatsoever (doesn’t affect Focus block). With your stats it’s more suited to draw fire (with RF/Tome of Courage/Wrath; Book form usually makes people freak out and try to attack you)

You can try the same setup with Zerker stats and the difference in damage will be huge when you have 45% crit chance and 80% crit damage.
Have a think. :0

Hi.
1st build: Points in Radiance (vuln, 5% sword damage) with Clerics and low Precision is probably going to be inefficient at adding damage. The only time you can ignore low Precision is when you have Inner Fire + “SY!” + RHS (15% crit) and fighting someone with burning in a Valkyrie/Soldier setup. Probably not the best idea anyway.

2nd build: 5 more in Radiance and you get 1-h crit +15%. 5 in Virtues give you Might x3, Regen, and Protection. Looks pretty balanced though with 3k armour. probably want hp a bit higher, 14.7k is still easy to burst. The protection from 5 in Virtues will help.

Cough, I like meditations. Sorry Dom, if you’re reading this, I stole your build.
Build “Give it a Whirl (heh)”
1. Screw Survivability: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQNAR8dlUgqCHHSNEfYFSmiVCBtFUVIewFc9AiioGC-jEyAYLBZKCMZJQJvioxW1KiGruGT5SEVbwLiWNA-w
2. Lyssa + some Valk: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQNAR8dlUgqCHHSNEfYFSmiVCBtFUVIewFc9AiioGC-j0yAYrAjvgILBiIAn8Gya6LiVxioxqrxUupW7KEZwLiWNA-w
3. Even more defensive: Just slot some Soldiers. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQNAR8dlUgqCHHSNEfYFSmiVCBtFUVIewFc9AiioGC-jEyAYLBZySgICwZvioxWFLiGruGT5SEVbwLiWNA-w

Maximum AoE Damage + Mobility in this setup. Designed to catch glassy roamers unaware and deliver scintillating blue death. Has good condition removal but 2.4k armour and 13k hp. You also have blind on every weapon so abuse them and protect your focus block until it blows up. Also good at annoying everyone. Sword 2 can be used without target to blind thief Backstab.

Focus block (wait 2 seconds) -> Focus blind -> Binding Blade -> Pull -> VoJ (for 10% damage) + Whirling Wrath + JI + Smite Condition -> Leap of Faith -> Spam Auto to taste.

Note that Torch has a travel time and immobilises will set you up for a hit if target is unsuspecting. That is why you would usually have sceptre (also a good ranged option for Right-hand Strength).

Sword Auto really is no joke. The last chain is 3 hits and, hitting the Light Armour Golem in the sPvP Mists area with a 0/30/30/5/5 Zerker Trip Med Guardian setup, you can do around ~2600 damage (upwards of 800 if each crits). On squishy 1800 armour burst roamers, the sword goes up to 3k.
Not to mention you will almost always proc fire sigil and burning with sword auto. The sword is perfect for finishing off enemies with low health after a burst. Not to mention the blind can help your team stomp a target.

Torch with Focus and JI + Smite Condition, without considering mainhands, give you a highly telegraphed but condensed, hard-hitting burst. Torch is known to crit for ~6k or more on 1800 armour.
You rarely see burst Guardians though… they do exist in tournaments.

To seriously answer your question though, Torch has been lackluster for a long time. It offers almost no utility and unimpressive burning (unless you spec for it).

Hi, thank you for posting the build.
I’d just like to point out, without any intention other than stating a fact, that 0/0/10/30/30 has been the standard for tPvP Guardian bunkers since beta. Here is the standard setup (uses Clerics). No deviation from your build at all.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQNAS7elUgyDXFSLEf4ES2jRCBTQsHYEH1RXFcIA-TsAgzCoIySllLLTWyssZN+YRw+DA
The traits are reliable and flexible and able to accommodate a large variety of weapon choices… Staff/Hammer, Sword+Shield/Staff (personal solo que favourite), Sceptre+Shield/Hammer…
Vengeful and Resolute Healer were the customisation options. Purity was always taken.
Moving 10 from Virtues to Valour for Shield CD can be done, but you lose flexibility that way. You do gain extra toughness and Shield reliability.
Never forget crits grant vigour. Free up a slot for Knights gear to get better crit chance… ~8-12% is good enough.
Soldier runes are expensive but worth it. 2 condi per shout. Along with Absolute Resolution you should be able to endure condi burst. Engi and Necro condi will still force you to blow CDs so watch out for them.
Book form/RF is your choice… if Guard is down, your whole team goes…

Surbrus.6942:

I always just assumed that the purpose of Torch5 was only to clear conditions on allies, and look like a bad kitten while getting you Ambient Killer daily… as yes, the cast time and damage is terrible.

Good point on the cleanse, though if you are glass enough to run Torch you probably don’t want to hang around to breathe highly visible blue flame…

I see. I never run Shield without healing power and bunker traits so I haven’t checked on that. 20% scaling is poor-ish.

foofad.5162:

Just FYI: Mace autoattack is slower than sword, so even though the total damage is just about as good if not a bit higher than a sword autoattack chain, the overall DPS is worse. It also doesn’t cleave on the last hit. You can sort of make up for this with extremely careful use of Protector’s Strike. As long as you block a hit within a second of casting it you’re generally looking at a net DPS increase, but if you don’t, you’re boned.

Also, Torch 5 is abysmally bad in terms of damage. It only cleaves 3 targets and it does extremely poor damage for its cast duration.

You almost never get off the 3rd hit on mace as well in a PvP situation. It’s too slow.
Yeah… torch 5 is lackluster… it does have a good number of procs so i guess it has a place in burn builds? From my impression if it fully hits it does 4k damage on relatively squishy targets…

Jski.6180:

The 5 skill not the problem is the 4 skill on shield it missing a stun like effect. A shield that can push ppl back and block ranges attks fits the bill for a magic armor hero but the lack of a stun like effect on the “shield bash like” attk is something that missing from the magic armor hero type.

I’d think a shield bash is a pretty physical thing. Warrior shield already has it and I think it’s going to be improbable that Guards get it as well. Besides the Stun Signet we don’t get any sort of stun anyway. Compared with how brutal Warriors wield maces and hammers, giving you a concussion with each swing (stun), Guards use magic that defy physical laws (bubble pushback, walls, rings, aegis and the famous hammer launch)… that’s what i think.

Shield 4 is pretty defensive and also buffs your team… fits with Guard.