Guild Wars 2

You know the “balancing” that this game is largely driven by on sPvP more than anything else (with some WvW changes and bug fixes here and there) right? Though the state of sPvP right now is rather sad… could use some new modes, ranking systems, connects to pve/wvw, etcetc.

Well, what I usually try to do against a warrior is conditions, which they cannit clear as easily- things like frost and cripple and weakness really hurt the warrior, and add a little bleed too.That usually gets them off my tail while I heal and go back on the offensive

Yw! While guardians are typically the class that specs retal (which when combined with immense defense and healing is very powerful), Mesmers may have it too. For an ele should you choose to engage a Mesmer, keep immobilize, cripple, and knockdowns on him. Mesmers are not the most defensive class, and immobilizing a Mesmer hurts them a lot(can’t avoid damage, cannot dodge to summon clones, decoy does not remove condition BUT blink moves the Mesmer away.). Dodge or mist form his illusion summons to prevent summons and waste his cd, and you got this in the bag though all this is not easy by any means.

Note Mesmers cannot summon clones when there is no target, which is why thieves are so important to the anti Mesmer meta

When a Mesmer has a staff or decoy even If you go for the right one there is a very good chance you end up killing the wrong one midway through because he switched. With his clone. Same with sword 3. With the immortal mes build a mes can just stand next to his phantasm and your aoes will be a burden when you hit the illusions as well as the mes, which procs retaliation. Or if traited, theyll proc a random condition pn you when they die. The time spent on killing clones also equals more time for the mesmer to attack uou and skills against you without damage. On the other hand the more clones,illusions the mesmer has on the field, the more he can heal, use them for daze, invincibility, shatter in your face, stack conditions on you, etc. It is really a lose lose situation, but your best bet is to burst the Mesmer down asap when you can see him, and clear his clones at a distance when you cannot (and move to a different position from where you fought). It is very tough to deal with a good Mesmer who conserves his clones wisely and disappears timely to heal/ save up a burst from a more advantageous position. Combine all those scary skills with a low cool down and you have the monstrosity that we call mesmer.

Because everything you do Against a Mesmer can be lose-lose, there is no set strategy against the mesmer unless you know his build well. But even against a staff bunker mesmer, everything that you do against him in a 1v1 can be bad for you (and a good bunker mesmer will make it so). It is because of that to this date, I have yet to lose in a 1v1 as a staff bunker Mesmer to anything other than other Mesmers/thieves that catch me off guard – not because of my skill but ranted by the opness of the class/build.

You have something quite scary on your hands when the best option in engagement is to run away (all classes/ builds for bunker Mesmer much like bunker eles prepatch buy even scarier, and gc classes for gc thieves)

Morian.2031:

Kellhus.8071:

If this was anyone but a self-proclaimed chick this thread would’ve already been laughed off the forums.

If you have an argument, bring the argument. Dismissing what a person says, or making inferences like you’ve done here based on a poster’s gender is inappropriate at best and sexist at worst.

ETA: Regarding the OP, one of the things I love about GW2 is that there are no dedicated babysitters, I mean healers, so that some people can focus on DPS contests and the healer have to keep them alive. I think this is how GW2 was purposefully designed – that there be no dedicated healer/tank/dps.

I’ve also found that a lot of these “best X in game!” things, including builds and skills, are heavily dependent on personal play style, so while it may be true that for the way that you personally play, the warrior works out best re: healing, that might not be the case for someone with a different style.

It’s not really about misogyny when the op is the one to use it to garner attention. Also wars cannot heal as well as eles, let alone guards. This is well established.

Welp, strife just updated. Hooray for return of gs/axe/mace!

It is le convergence to the 0/10/0/30/30

Wait he actually let you land a Hb? Sounds like he doesn’t have any cantrips lol. Impressive though, chasing a dd down-not exactly an easy task. I’ve never really detailed a kill like that before… Mounting him on your wall anytime soon? Haha

+1 to daphoenix.showed me the potential of dd ele in one thread

Imo it was also of how well they counter gc Mesmers (and unfortunately every other class and build as well so they got leverage) that the mesmer community pushed hard for a bunker d/d nerf. now to make things more balanced, they need to be nerfed as well.

I don’t think many people seriously accept Mesmers as balanced. It’s just that they’re there and that’s the product of ‘balancing’. Ive seen mesmers on the mesmer and spvp forums argue for them being balanced, but imo they do so out of ignorance of the other classed or are arguing to prevent them from being nerfed, since they roll mesmers and want to keep facerolling. After rolling a mesmer in spvp- and having tried both staff bunker and gc greatsword/ s/p – im even more thoroughly convinced that this is the case (they’re pretending to accept them as balanced for personal reasons, as cynical as the thought may be). People simply accept their existence – and since they are pretty powerful- a lot of people are rolling one or rolling their counterbuilds- gc thieves or bunkers. IMO the spvp meta revolves around Mesmers because of their abundance, and it is also because of that abundance of such an effective class/build that learning how to spot the real Mesmer Is one of the first things you learn as an spvper… Otherwise you might never be able to kill them even when they’re downed and they can and will take you down in seconds

Ort, your combo works in that it is a rotation. But you miss out of the might stacks that you get with fire field+ blast and fire aura by fire field+ leap. That’s why it is common to go fire before earth.

The thing is that out of gc classes, Mesmers and thieves reign (and gc guard if u can consider that gc as well). Theyre the standard spvp meta nowadays. You should always expect gc thieves and Mesmers to be on the other team and know how to deal with them should they come at you. This means not rolling a gc class that collapses under their pressure, or rolling a bunker.

Windwalker.2047:

Durzlla.6295:

Raptured.9307:

Lavadiel.6231:

there is simple rure in this game:
1v1:
tank cant kill tank – endless battle
gc cant kill tank, tank wins
gc vs gc – messmer wins

2v2 and 3v3. ..4v4…5v5
2/3/4/5 gc wins vs 2/3/4/5 tanks

that is because in this game GC complement each other while tanks and especially condi builds does not combine so well… and that is why chiftain ninjas (DPS oriented PT build) owns so hard any tank PT in pvp.

Very true. And gc d/d ele pretty much never wins unless against gc war.
Bunker d/d either wins or runs.
have yet to see any effective staff eles in spvp..

gc d/d eles are freaking destructive when they travel in packs xD one of my friends “new meta” builds (thats what he calls everything we run xD) was 5 eles, 4 d/d gc and a staff ele, the 4 d/d gc traveled in groups of 2 -most- of the time, because they are like freaking Slivers from Magic the Gathering…

Ever seen a pack of gc mezzmers?

^much scarier

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_Rage rage is bugged
But yeah overall build works, just don’t 1v1. Play like a bs thief with that 100b build lol
imo warrior truly shines in team spvp situations via defensive c/c builds, but that’s just me.

yeah, sword warhorn + gs + frenzy bullrush + signet of rage = unparalleled map exploring speed… pretty ridiculous. Not useful in actual fights/spvp though.
Can imagine thief with steal shadow step and shortbow 5 and cloaks w/ 150% speed when stealthed to be pretty darn fast too.

Lavadiel.6231:

there is simple rure in this game:
1v1:
tank cant kill tank – endless battle
gc cant kill tank, tank wins
gc vs gc – messmer wins

2v2 and 3v3. ..4v4…5v5
2/3/4/5 gc wins vs 2/3/4/5 tanks

that is because in this game GC complement each other while tanks and especially condi builds does not combine so well… and that is why chiftain ninjas (DPS oriented PT build) owns so hard any tank PT in pvp.

Very true. And gc d/d ele pretty much never wins unless against gc war.
Bunker d/d either wins or runs.
have yet to see any effective staff eles in spvp..

Here’s the general public opinion on PVE “tiers” in dungeons:
Warrior/guard/mes
Ele

Necro
Ranger/engineer

PVP:
Mes/guard/ele
ranger/necro
engineer

…
warrior

WVW:
Mesmer
ele/war/necro/ranger/guardian

Engineer

Are rangers actually worth rolling? Seems better than the engineer…

winged/orr set with the final rest. dat final rest.

Several things

#1. Warriors are a joke in pvp. This is no joke. Mesmers are also not a joke in pvp. This is also not a joke.
#2. Glass necro and d/d ele dps cannot compare to warrior dps. Hence 4war1mes, and hence me rolling a warrior.
#3. Glass necro is noticeably more survivable than glass war with plague and ds, but glass war isn’t exactly not survivable either. Base 2.23k armor, 20k hp with full zerker.
#4. Wells are powerful
#5. #5

Here’s one question i always had. Does it decrease the density of your meteors in fire 5 or do they simply give you more metors that scale with the area and the density is the same?

So spoiled lol.
literally going from the most survivable to one of the least survivable world explore leveling classes

Oh if you’re fighting that many then you need a staff and kite them around lol.
It’s not as easy for ele as it is for warriors or guards to do because of your super low hp bar.
And yes, lightning hammer is very useful. The 3 and 5 skill on fiery greatsword are also pretty amazing

Dagger/dagger is probably your best bet. Learn to do rotations of attunements
Here’s something to get you started,
Air 3 4 (target) 2 5
fire 3 2 5 4
earth 4 3 3 2 (5 if mobs are weak as kitten)
if you need healing water (heal) 5 4 3 2
otherwise, air again
Do this until you get evasive arcana, but by then it gets more fun and you can use earth roll as a blast finisher for might stacking, in water for healing and condition removal, air is useless (blind), fire too (fire nova – not a blast)

Basic idea, fire + earth for damage/ might stacks
air for mobility/ closing gaps, running away, stuns/knockdowns
water for healing/ condition removal.

Ele is possibly one of the worst exploring classes (to level up) until you’re level 80. For now, trait everything into damage until 80 so you can clear mobs fast. Yeah, you’re gonna miss out on survivability, but it’s for the short term. Always get blues (or green if you’re more wealthy) at 5 under your level to your level. Try running dungeons at 35 -80 if you can (Run AC and get your soldier’s gear early)! At 50, you have the choice to spend about 10-12 gold to craft your char to 80 (jewel, cook, artifice)- that’s pretty wise IMO if you have the resources. I feel your pain – it’s like, been there, done that haha. Don’t worry, it’s worth it.

Hi dapheonix,
Glad to see that you’re paying attention to the comments as well!
Gotta say I really love this build – it got me started as an ele in gw2 and I’ve stuck with it since then, it’s very effective. What do you think the 2/26 update has done for eles with this build? Personally, I think we suffer a bit in spvp with these changes, but our supportive role has become even more grounded and damage output is slightly higher in pve (overall a buff in pve).

Also, I’ve tested this with an experienced trap ranger and glass mesmer friend before in spvp. Here’s my input (maybe it can help!)-
I run 2 superior water, 2 superior monk, and 2 superior runes of the flock (the birds are actually pretty substantial) or 2 superior runes of divinity as you suggested

For my daggers, i run battle and Hydromancy (since you change attunements so often, you can keep freezing your foes). For the amulet, i use cleric’s with celestial jewel (the tradeoff seems lower for the crit dmg %). Pre patch, this build used to make me pretty much invincible except to bursts, but if i survive the burst, i can always heal back to full health in any 1v1 no matter how many conditions/ dmg my opponent puts on me at 1.1-1.2k healing power in exchange for vitality. Maybe test this out and see if this is still effective? Would love to hear more about state of ele in spvp.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Guide-Mastering-the-D-D-ele-2-16-12/first
Uhm no he talks quite a bit about pve…

And also you completely ignored everything i just pointed out. Condition removal, survivability, healing, and boon duration are large parts of “support” that eles have the potential to bring out. Like boon duration, is that not important for pve? Also, condition removal is very essential in pve when you’re running in groups of dpsers, of which warriors are king (so just roll that if you wanna go full dps in dungeons). Please, try running something like ta and tell me condition removal anod survival isn’t that necessary.

Also, here is the definition of “literally”. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/literally

Still didn’t answer my question of your bitterness towards “the fotm build”

Yes, if you would, can you put up a build? Your setup sounds great.

I run the bunker build for the same reason that everyone else runs it. Alright, so you’re saying the only reason people run dapheonix’s build is that they can’t dodge. Otherwise if they were better they can do all that dps while being just as survivable AND support if they were just good. Keep thinking that, but did you know you can’t dodge when you help a downed group member getting chewed up by mobs? Or do your groups never down and everyone is perfect? This is what part of taking a supportive role means, it isn’t about just giving boons (which you also can’t give as much of a duration for if you run full gc and spec for most damage) and healing (which you can’t do as well as a full dpser). You also realize that the recent patch hit gcs harder than bunkers and that auras are still far from useless right? Frost aura is hit much harder in spvp than in pve (in pve, it now grants 10% damage reduction in exchange, and can even be considered a buff), shock aura is only fixed in that it procs the correct amount now, and that fire aura is actually better now? If anything, daphoenix’s build has become even better for supporting, with the only exception that zephyr boon double proc is fixed. The build is hit, yes, but much, much more so in pvp/wvw than in pve, where frost aura used to shut down thieves and multihitters, where mobility of rtl is really essential to survival/chasing, and where healing in fire attribute/fire aura is really not done/used often (so related buffs are nearly useless).

It really makes me wonder why you two are so bitter towards the “fotm build” though. If it’s a bad build, why would you want it to be nerfed so badly? If it’s a good build, why are you so against the idea of it and using it? Do you truly believe anet did a good job balancing this time? This really boggles me. The only thing i can think of is: hipsters.

Ostricheggs.3742:

Minion of Vey.4398:

If this is insisted on, my suggestion is adding one second of additional base swiftness to what is gained from elemental attunement trait by switching to air.

I completely disagree. Eles are still the fastest roamers in the game even without perma swiftness and the RTL nerf in TPvP.

I still think it’s a tossup between eles, warriors, and thieves.

Necros should not be able to do that. They’re not a burst class. The only thing I can think of when that happens for you is corrupt boon, when they change all your boons into conditions. If that’s the case and you had a number of boons on you before, change to water, roll, skill 5, 4, heal (you can choose to do all of this or just first two depending on whether or not you manage to get rid of immobilize/cripple and other deadly conditions), and rtl the hell out of there until you recuperate and get back into the fight. If it’s a sequential addition of conditions that happen pretty quickly and you see a “blast” animation, they’re probably using their staff on you. in that case, just change into water and keep dodging for now, and find some way to knock down the necro asap (air 5, earth 4). Proceed to do whatever you want to the necro. If in the last case, you are actually being hit by epidemic from a corrupt boon on a guardian’s save yourselves (sigh that bad guardian), then you’re probably in for some trouble. Do the same that you did for case one and get your kitten out of there… for now… and find a way to sneak up and once again knock down that necro when you are ready to. The reason you don’t want to engage as much in cases 1 and 3 is that they probably still have all their staff skills (and a lot of conditions) that they can use on you. If it’s case two and you knock them down, they probably can’t track you fast enough or find a good enough opportunity to use corrupt boon on you if you get very close to them, or that they’ve already exhausted their utilties.

Note: this is very situational and based on how fast you react and how many skills/ hp you have left.

To be fair, treb blocking is pretty impressive, lol

Lert.6287:

Basicly I can agree with everything Raptured says, and to nothing what you two are saying.
‘’Experienced player’’ in my kitten Claiming you can do the highest damage and (from what and how you’re writing) kill everyone on 1vs1.
Even with armor over 2.5k, full zerker mesmer (zerker mesmer makes sense) can do around 15k damage to you in 1-2 sec if all of his hits crit. So with your builds (~13k hp, 1.9k deff) he probably wouldn’t need to bother you with destorying illusions to make you down in 10sec.

That’s what you see in spvp(11-15kish) and that’s done at a range of 1200, while long range dmg can be maintained simply by autoattack that hits about 1.3k on other players in spvp. I suspect the damage on pve to be even higher, without the crit dmg cap and with ascended equipment. Their burst is immense, and imo (like how many others in the spvp community think), the most broken spvp class right now.

Uhm yes i have tried the gc zerker build with dd. You can’t survive for jack in dungeons and warriors do your job better than you can, while you’re neglecting your own supportive potential. A zerker war already has crap survivability right now and it only works because they can kill everything before they get killed – as their means of survival. What you get with gc d/d ele is less dps (substantially less), and about half the hp.. just think about that.
What with renewing stamina nerfed, omnom pies nerfed, you are even less survivable than you were before, it just doens’t work.

And yeah, I do expect you to read all that because you have already spent this much effort to go on such an extended argument with me. You guys sound like the people who give eles the (wrong) stereotype of being completely fragile.

Also, please keep your cool. Almost seems like I’m arguing with children, lol.

Hah, sorry for being literate and having responded to your question on the other thread just now in my previous post. Take your time to read, there’s no rush.

“you disagree with me, and therefore you are wrong”.
Obviously, these guys are personally insulted at me saying that gc ele isn’t the way to go in pve/spvp (especially spvp).
Here’s the thing.
Eles aren’t god. they can’t do everything. Yeah, they’re a jack of all trades, but you do know the second part of the idiom called “master of none” right? Thankfully, eles are very good at one thing – support, much like the guardian, but in a slightly more offensive fashion. They can’t give full heal, but give considerable healing and condition removal, while giving protection, swiftness, and lots of might (and fury sometimes). This is where the ele stands out, and not dps.

I chose not to respond to your other thread not because I felt “I lost the argument and therefore you are better than me”, but because I simply didn’t feel like going back to that thread. It was boring and inane to try to convince you two. However, @ razor, note that:
#1. You did not show if you used food
#2. You did not show what sigils you were using – did you have bloodlust stacks?
#3. Status of mobs – any vulnerability on them?
#4. # of stacks of might on your char. I noticed you were doing some considerable might stacking combos there.
#5. The idea that churning earth, the staple skill which you circled, has a charging time of 3.25 seconds to charge and hit

This is about the same amount of time to do hundred blades (without frenzy) and as a “burst” skill, it takes a 30 seconds to recharge compared to the 8 seconds warriors need to recharge theirs (without the very common -20% cooldown trait). In cof runs without full stacks of might (I personally do not like 4war1mes groups, because of how much time they want you to dedicate to them and how abrasive people are), my war is able to 100b about 19k with 100b on slave driver (who may have even higher toughness) with <10 might stacks, while being downleveled to match cof. Let’s compare that to the 11k you hit with a skill of 40s cooldown, while being what 4 levels higher and god knows how many might/ bloodlust stacks. It is already apparent that war dps is higher. Even their axe autoattack (which is supposedly highest sustained dps) hits about 10-11k a second in cof runs (3.5k ish per crit, ~1/3s/hit). If you are to say, oh, but wars can’t aoe, that’s because they don’t need to. They can move when they attack (axe 1), and aggroed mobs go right in front of them (and they can hit multiple targets). Most sustained fights are single bosses too, so they need even less of that.

Here’s where we get to compare gc war and gc ele in other aspects than just dps. Warriors are terrible for defensive support when gcing, true, but their offensive support isn’t to be neglected. The banner of discipline, which gives near constant 90 prec and 10% crit damage is well worth the what, 12-15 stacks of might that eles can give to the team as a gc at most if they spec for might duration. Most wars run with this banner, and great justice which give fury and might as well. They can inflict ~ constant 10-18 stacks of vuln individually on the boss if they choose to with “on my mark” and axe/mace skills 2 & 4 at the same time. with a group of 4 wars, you can already maintain 25 stacks of vuln on boss and ~ 20 constant stacks of might on the whole group alone. In a group setting and in an individual setting, there is really nothing that comes close to war on sustained offensive strength (except thieves and mesmers, who come very close or even may do better in terms of burst – this is very arguable. But once again, that’s burst, not sustained). And this is done while maintaining about 20k hp and 2.2k armor with no vitality added in traits or gear compared to ele’s 11k hp and 1.85k armor.

The ele isn’t almighty. It is a jack of all trades and yes it can dps in an aoe fashion, but in the pve world of sustained dps for boss runs and minions that aggro toward you, warrior comes first. Where ele shines most in pve is bunker, because you can give those ridiculous might stacks while giving long durations of protection, auras, swiftness, regen, condition cleansing… etc that no other class can simultaneously do. You don’t sacrifice too much dps from what i remember as well as a bunker (dapheonix), i distinctly remember doing 7.5k crit churning earths on the last boss in cofp1e while surviving and helping my team survive (role of the support/bunker) and finish this fight faster with immense stacks of boons. It’s because of all that support eles can give that they made ele dps weaker for bossing. After all, a class can’t have everything and be better at everything than every other class, right? Otherwise everyone would simply be ele… which they are not.

The ele isn’t bad at all (possibly one of the best, most fun classes out there). It is a highly mobile class that can do many things together. It can dps, sure, but where the ele strength lies in pve is support. And to do that support, you have to survive.

If you’re insta kicked, it MIGHT have to do with the fact that you’re level 6.
Also, you cannot weapon switch from dd to staff in combat.

I worry for your sanity. Okay, the only way that works is if people always run in mini zergs of 5 people in radii of 180-360 in spvp and stand there for you to cast lava font meteor shower, and then sit there as meteors fall on them instead of going after you when you have what 10-11k hp? with little to no running/healing capabilities? You realize how absurd that is right? The first thing I and other experienced spvpers go after (bunker or glass cannon) are staff eles because their current state in spvp is terrible. They’re only viable in wvw because crit damage is not capped like in spvp and that they have a strong line of defense to save their kitten . If you really want to aoe glass cannon in spvp, run mesmer. The greatsword is an immensely powerful long ranged aoe weapon and when coupled with shatter zerker builds it is just plain scary. If the other team has a shatter glass mesmer, you are done for because their range is just as great as yours and they can burst so much better than you while being more survivable and mobile, and we all know how many mesmers there are in spvp. The only place where glass cannon staff does better than greatsword shatter mesmer (in some but not all respects) is wvw, where your illusions may get wiped very quickly while Meteor shower holds a steady curtain of 5k fire on your enemies, especially on choke points like bridges and such, and boy is it powerful there as an anti-zerg mechanic. Even then, its effectiveness is limited by the max 5 enemies cap

oh uh, if you’re using gc d/d in spvp.. you’re gonna rtl in and drop dead.

timecookie.8570:

CookMETEnder.7582:

Agreed, that’s what I do.
The question is… Axe/Axe for perma fury or Axe/Mace for vulnerability?
I find that I can stack 8+ with normal attacks and 4 more with axe #2.
So axe/axe for perma fury?

Axe offhand main utility was to bring the whirlwind attack which combines 5 targets simultaneously and great regen using Omnomberry Pie/Ghost which is now out of date. About the fury you should have enough with For Great Justice and Signet of Rage, possibly Disc. Banner and maybe some boon duration, not to mention that you’re not alone in dungeons.
This is why I think Axe offhand is now obsolete so my personnal way to go is either Mace or Shield for specific fights.

You should not only consider the vulnerability coming from the Mace, Tremor is insane.

For me, my mainhand is always going to be axe/mace. Question is, what should i replace axe/axe with?

According to my party members. I used endure pain +balanced stance instead and it worked.

Alright I’m out Sorry for ruining your dps d/d ele circlejerk. obv you two just don’t like the idea of me telling you that warriors do better in pve with dps than eles (probably your builds) and will argue against me to your deaths for that. You know exotics aren’t really hard to get, and you can always reroll right, if you wanted that dps so badly? I’m simply letting you know there’s a reason why eles are fit for support, and that you can maximize your potential by building for support and survivability instead of dps as d/d especially with recent changes to the class. It’s not bad by any means, if you’re just doing it for fun. If you’re running dungeons though, i’m just letting you know what’s working behind people’s heads when they want dps wars more than dps d/d eles, every time. The more arguable point right now is who has a better support role, the d/d ele/ staff ele/ or the support guardian.

Edit: when i say more significant point, i meant the more significant point i was making in my previous post.

The more significant point is that dps eles don’t win out against dps wars. and obviously you choose to ignore that because it’s convenient to you to win an argument for the sake of it, even though you did not give any constructive ideas or points, going straight for the personal attacks.

What you’re saying: oh, you didn’t know necro dagger hits only one target? kitten you don’t know anything else about eles or warriors. Great argument. The fact that you waited to call me out on it when you are obviously so belligerent also shows that you didn’t know this fact until now, and you’re using it as the only leverage you have. Since I’m arguing against you, I must also be wrong and am also a terrible person. Your argument is just pathetic.

haha okay, glad you understand.

Also, this may be why the recent patch screwed glass cannons over more than bunkers if u decompose the patch down to its components.

They upped might stacking, decreased survivability. Survivability took a bigger hit than might stacking got buffed. Survivability though has more utility value to gcs because they have less of it to begin with than to bunkers (who have more of it) so gced suffered more, and additional power was more useful to builds with less power (bunkers) than gcs (who have a lot of it) so bunkers gained more.

What they should do to allow for variety of builds – make the utility of builds about the same for gc, condition dmg, and bunker across builds across all classes. Naturally this isn’t the case, so we see more of some classes actively playing and builds for some classes than others.

in spvp, running with 1100-1200 healing power prepatch used to bring me up to full health from any fight in matter of seconds.

dreztina.4820:

Raptured.9307:

Razor.6392:

I do all of that while inflicting 4x more damage. And I will keep doing that.

Enjoy your 700 damage lava fonts

If that’s the case that you can do what every bunker can do WHILE doing 4x more dps, why doesn’t every one roll it? And that it does more dmg than a warrior? are you saying that others are simply being ignorant (everyone else who thinks that eles can’t do more dmg than a warrior/ rolls a bunker ele) are simply worse at the game or are ignorant of this almighty build?… cmon man you know better than that.

Wasn’t long ago everyone in the game knew ele was one of the weakest classes and d/d was a terrible build and staff was the only viable way to play.

Some people figure out successful builds ourselves without worrying about what ‘everyone’ else thinks, and some of us don’t.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Guide-Mastering-the-D-D-ele-2-16-12/first

Was released nov. 16. People embraced the d/d build back then too, no backlash for it being terrible.

tldr for post above; Not saying power d/d is absolutely bad dps, but warriors can deal higher maintained dps to one target and targets in front of the warrior. And, mobs/ bosses aggro toward the war so they pretty much stack / get hit by the auto so the dps goes to them too. target limit of pbaoes and aoes is 5, so not much there. The only way dps ele wins out in terms of overall dps to every target is if every mob is located just sparsely enough to be able to get hit by all of the eles attacks but not by the warrior’s auto, and that they are either immobile or don’t aggro towards the war/ele. That’s pretty much the only condition. For bosses and traditional mobs warriors are going to do a lot more dps, while having 1.8x ish times more hp and lot more armor and comparable offensive support. If you take all these factors together and make a general “utility value” for these traits, utility (dps war)> utility (dps ele) in most dungeons (i’d say all, but i have not yet done ALL dungeons and paths, so there might be a dungeon with loosely spaced tars/ jellies that can’t move, who knows).

Innovation is good. It’s just that the changes anet made is taking this class away from variety and forcing more and more people towards the d/d bunker build, and for a good reason. It’s all based on the multidimensional idea/value of utility. Survivability is taken away for all builds recently, and this hurts dps oriented eles more than bunkers because at an already low value for survivability, that loss of survivability is a much more significant impact on the utility of glass builds than on bunker builds (marginal utility in respect to survivability is greater in magnitude when survivability is low).

Of course, there are other things to consider for this abstract concept of utility, or whatever you can choose to name it. This is just a simple way to demonstrate it, and it is in no way a linear curve. I just picked out the 3 most important attributes to me and decided to model it off of that.

Let’s imagine a 3 dimensional plot of potential of dps, support, and survivability. x axis – dps, y axis – support, z axis – survivability. For every class there it is a bounded curve in that the curve does not meet any of the axes – meaning you cannot have zero support, survivability, or dps at any time. at the point of max x (dps) – for warriors it is higher than it is for eles already xmax(war)>>xmax(ele). At that point, they have more vitality and toughness/armor too, so survivabilitymax(war)>>survivabilitymax(ele). Support at that point is comparable, because ele has lost much support capabilities to reach that point to match the war’s pretty decent offensive support of vulnerability amd might/fury stacks to team and max crit damage boost support(war)~= support(ele). At this point, war is much more wanted because of the utility considering all three stats. There is a utility function in our heads (different for everyone perhaps and different for every situation, but not too much off for say the same dungeon) that changes depending on the situation, but it exists as utility (dps, support, survivability) for each dungeon. per se: cof may weigh dps more, while ac may weigh support/survivability more. Plug in numbers for ele with max dps (in dps, support, and survivability) into that function and plug in numbers for war with max dps and you’ll find the utility for wars to be much greater, which is why people want dps wars for cof runs. The difference is so great, such that dps wars are wanted all across the board more than d/d dps elementalists within every utility function for most situations/dungeons. However, the utility for eles geared towards max support is comparable to that of the dps war in any dungeon other than cof pie, if not higher – but it does so in that it makes the most out of the other variables (survivability, support) at the dps, survivability, and support toward the utility function. Thus this is why ppl want support eles, not dps eles – because of ele’s max potential at support (z axis) is higher than the warrior’s by quite a bit.

you realize necros auto attack and warriors auto attack and other skills can hit more than one target and that most mobs aggro and walk towards you so that you can hit a lot of them at a time after the initial aggro? And that most drawn out fights are single bosses or ones with mobs that go towards you and stack?

Razor.6392:

I do all of that while inflicting 4x more damage. And I will keep doing that.

Enjoy your 700 damage lava fonts

If that’s the case that you can do what every bunker can do WHILE doing 4x more dps, why doesn’t every one roll it? And that it does more dmg than a warrior? are you saying that others are simply being ignorant (everyone else who thinks that eles can’t do more dmg than a warrior/ rolls a bunker ele) are simply worse at the game or are ignorant of this almighty build?… cmon man you know better than that

There are no perfect builds like that. you’ll lose out on survivability and utility. and in any case, if you try hard to make up for the support, you’ll lose out on dps. it’s not something that you can have most of both out of, you can only have all of one, all of other, or a bit of both.

Maybe i should make it a point that i roll an aurashare d/d ele for pve …

Okay. Please roll a warrior to 80. The only dps you know about is necro and ele… lol
Or even go to spvp and fight a gc thief.
Or you know what, here’s one that hits closer to home for you.
Get dagger warhorn on your necro, spec double wells, blood is power. Get all power and prec traits and other traits that go with glass cannon necro
BIP, throw down some wells, press 5 (warhorn) get close to something, autoattack. HF