Guild Wars 2

It was the dawn of the third age of gaming – 10 years after the first MMO.

The Guild Wars 2 Project was a dream, given form. Its goal: to prevent another market loss, by creating a place where casuals and hardcores can work for their different goals, peacefully. It’s a port of call – home away from home – for completionists, explorers, pvp’ers, and wanderers.

Humans and locusts, wrapped in two million, five hundred thousand tons of spinning lines of code . . . all alone in the intertubes.

It can be a dangerous place, but it’s our last best hope for peace.

This is the story of the last of the Trusted Developers. The year is 2012. The name of the place, is Guild Wars 2.

Malefactor.2971:

Not much different than the “lf2 war or guard only” or “lfm full exotics only” I’ve seen for weeks now. There are people like that in every game, I’m just happy they advertise their douchiness so I never have the “privilege” of grouping with them.

The difference is that now, they’re the ones on the home turf. The game is going be designed for this mindset going forward, and they are going to become the mainstream player. The rest of us will be stuck with what was available at release, because all new content is going to be tuned to the higher level gear.

Like it says on the tin. For those of you who are disturbed with this new direction and are leaving the game, or even getting refunds, what would change your mind?

Please keep it specific, so it doesn’t get merged into the threadnaught.

My answer: Two options. The first, most preferable option is a complete reversion of this new strategy. Patch all ascended gear and transfusions down to the existing power level of exotics. Basically, admit the mistake, apologize, and move on.

Second, take one of the suggestions that’s been passed around both here and on the suggestions forums, and downscale Ascended gear in all content that it wasn’t designed for. At the moment, that would mean within the FotM dungeon only. Everywhere else, the Ascended gear would statistically equal to exotics. This allows you to keep the gear progression, but prevents it from impacting the rest of game and leaves it as just one more gameplay option.

Anyone else want to chip in?

Ferguson.2157:

Try going to your state atorney generals website and file a complaint for a bait and switch. Bait-and-switch frauds are illegal, Anet may get fined.

The US Justice Dept also goes after bait-and-switch fraudsters.

This doesn’t meet the definition of a bait and switch though. B+S (oh the poetry of that acronym) involves advertising a product without the intention of selling it, and offering a more expensive product once the customer is hooked.

For example, putting a bunch of hard drives on sale for dirt cheap, but only stocking 5 of them, and oh-so conveniently placing them on the shelf next to a full priced drive.

Anet’s actions could only go under misleading advertising, or not delivering the advertised product. How much weight that has considering it’s an ongoing service, I don’t know.

Waffler.1257:

LadenSwallow.1468:

To those saying they want to hit ANet in their wallets:

https://en.support.guildwars2.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/9053/kw/refund

I have already filed my ticket.

I tried, but I was stupid enough to pre-order the game, so they told me I was out of the 6 month window for refunds.

At the very least, the request for a refund will be logged and viewed by someone important. It shows a lot more dedication to what your saying when that stat hits them then just counting posts on a forum. Talk is cheap.

Ahdia.8761:

I’m so disgusted and disillusioned by game companies at this point that this move doesn’t surprise me but I wish it were otherwise.

My list of companies I will never patronize again keeps growing.

EA (because of business practices)
Bioware (because of ME2, DA2)
Blizzard (Because of how they handled D3)
and now, Arena Net

Now, I’m poor, so I havn’t been using cash on the gem store. However, I have participated in driving up the gold price of gems by a fair amount, encouraging others to spend cash. I would have been willing to spend money on them in the future, when new items were released, given that there’s no subscription and I wanted to support my game.

Yesterday, I asked for a refund.

_
On a lighter note:

NCSoft: ( waves hand) “This isn’t the game you’re looking for.”

Players: “This isn’t the game we’re looking for.”

NCSoft: “You can go about your business.”

Players: “We will go about our business. Without you.”

NCSoft: “Move along.”

Players: “Move along? We are SO moving along.”

Anet: “I can’t understand how we lost all those players! I think we’re dead!”

NCSoft: “The PR can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.”

Well, with any luck, this will be my last post for a while. I’ve just applied for a refund, based on the fact that the product I now have is not the product I paid for. I plan to use the money to re-up my EVE Online account for a couple months. My other thoughts have been documented here already; needless to say, I do not approve of Ascended gear.

However, for those who are as bothered by these changes as I am, here is a link to the refund page. https://en.support.guildwars2.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/9053

So long and thanks for all the quaggans.

*-pre-emptive note to moderators: Announcing that I have requested a refund is valid feedback. It shows the extend to which I dissaprove of this.

Kozmec.1280:

I gotta be honest. I came into the knowledge of this new gear freaking out and thinking it was the end of the world. But now that I have seen the stats and how easy they are to obtain, I’ve come to realize that my faith in ANet should have been stronger.

These new items are exactly what the game needed. Anyone that wasn’t happy with the missing stat grind before is WELCOME to spend 90 hours running the same dungeon paths 360 times to acquire them, AND THEY SHOULD… I mean LOOK AT THOSE STATS.

In before ANet patches in the inability to use Ascended gear in WvW and open world PvE. You wanted stat grind, we gotcha stat grind right here.

For those that couldn’t tell (and there will be some) this is sarcasm. I had to read it a couple times myself before I noticed.

I’m starting to think there should be a “Poe’s Law” for generic sarcasm as well.

AzureNightmare.3914:

That being said though, I still can’t help but feel this was always a game that required grinding if you wanted to advance in the story, something I felt GW1 never really required- not because it leveled with you, but for the most part you were always on the same level as the rest of the game even when they start going level 20+ when you’re just 20. To me, the whole anti-grinding thing… was never there for day one to me.

The thing is, most of the grinds that were there have been optional. 400 crafting, dungeon tokens, karma, etc- all for cosmetic rewards or minor tweaks to stat distribution. The grind for basic exotics was moderate, and only had to be done once per character, so it gave a nice sense of fulfillment and freedom when you finally finished. Everything after that is just for the sense of accomplishment, and optional in regards to gameplay.

The new items completely eliminate that paradigm. Optional, side-grade grinding is dead. Wandering aimlessly to see what happens, leveling alts without guilt or rush, sitting back and reading the dialogue and lore, is now a dead gameplay style.

Zero, because I quit when I read the patch notes today.

beren.6048:

Locusts are numerous and if he says they are 1% then that is not locusts.

It’s an apt description of their behavior though. They come, they consume everything they can, then they move on, leaving empty fields behind them.

kaffaljidhma.1496:

that’s broken since the thread doesn’t even have 197 pages yet but if it’s on the dev tracker I’ll try to find it.

Fixed.

And again, cause of how fast the thread moves:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/139a4j/official_post_ascended_items_on_german_forums/

kaffaljidhma.1496:

I’d like to see that other interview if you know where to find it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Thoughts-on-Ascended-Gear-Merged-threads/page/197#post742562

ok, the intraforum links don’t work. Here’s the direct one: (I was trying to leave it intact for original credit, but w/e)

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/139a4j/official_post_ascended_items_on_german_forums/

Agreed.

This will let the WoW locusts have their wheat fields, but won’t impact the rest of the game. As long as dungeons are still complete-able (ie: view all content) without the improved gear, this would be an acceptable solution. It’s the only idea I’ve seen so far that would get me to reinstall.

krookie.6378:

krookie.6378:

I get it ArenaNet, you want to achieve the impossible and appease both groups, those who want a gear treadmill and those who do not. This is how you do it.

The full stats bonuses of ascended gear only work in dungeons and reverts to exotic stats in the rest of the game (normal zones, WvW, etc). This way, the dungeon/gear grinders can get their “phat lewtz” progression and the rest of us don’t have to worry about it and can continue to enjoy the game how we want.

Took your advice and created a topic in suggestions. I doubt that it’ll do any good but maybe there is a slight chance.

Should post a link to it here as well. It may draw more of us irate players over there to bump it.

edit: here it is https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Ascended-stats-only-work-in-dungeons/first#post749900

BurnedToast.3781:

Info dump on ascended gear + forum riot happened on the 12/13th.

NCsoft stock price fell off a cliff on the 8th.

So yeah, you can’t blame it on this, as much as I wish you could.

There are 3 very distinct bumps on the 14th (down), 15th (up), and 15th-end of day(down). It may not be the driving force in the general trend downwards, but there has been a noticeable effect.

OEXTRA.1780:

On the surface it seems “vastly different” but honestly it’s not that different. Back when I 1st played and went from full materwork to full rare, I didn’t feel/see much of a difference. The only thing that was really different was the color of the armor name. What truly made a difference for me was my build, everything else was minor in comparison.

It made a pretty noticeable difference to me. I play an Ele, and as the super-squishy class, every stat point counts and is very noticeable.

Here’s my patch feedback:

I havn’t logged in. I havn’t downloaded it. I don’t plan to. I give any dev/gm permission to check my login history and full account details if you doubt me.

Stat inflation in GW2 is unacceptable; it is not what was promised on purchased, and not why I purchased it. The rest of the patch is really irrelevant.

GOSU.9574:

For over all world, wvw, etc. Everything above Exotic is scaled down to Exotic. Period. When you enter an environment where your “enhancements” were meant to be needed/desired, they kick in and take effect.

This would be an acceptable fix.

OEXTRA.1780:

but until then at least wait till you try out the new content to complain.

If you give a mouse a cookie….

My PVE guild has had 15-30 members online every night since release. The guild is made up of a majority of players 25+, with relationships and jobs, and we focus on just hanging out and doing random stuff out in the game. For us, there never WAS a drop in people.

Until now.

Take that as you will.

Siebenstein.1376:

That’s it.

Bye Arenanet.

Same here.

I havn’t logged in since I read the blog. Now it hurts just to come read. All hope that my beloved game will not be murdered is gone. I don’t see how anythign less then a full reversion will bring me back.

nvmvoidrays.2158:

runes and sigils. people don’t realize how much benefit runes and sigils give. if you people want to run around with a couple dozen more stat points, go ahead. i’ll keep using my runes and sigils.

As has been pointed out countless times, the new gear has an 8% boost over exotics WITH RUNES. All it has lost is customizability.

So they went through with the increased stats, in spite of the massive outcry.

I havn’t been this mad at a game since Diablo 3. They took my favorite MMO ever, a bright spot of uniqueness and creativity in a sea of WoW clones, and they turned it into a WoW clone.

the chat filter will not let me adequately express my feelings. I’ll give them a week to fix it, or at least release plans to fix it, then I’m uninstalling and never coming back.

Holy kitten.

I may just delete my ele over this. Combined with the Ascended gear BS, I may even quit. Why should I log in to a game I didn’t buy, when my favorite gameplay style has been eliminated?

Note, not nerfed. Eliminated. The mobile field/dodge style was unique and very fun. Now it doesn’t exist.

cherrie.8907:

Every time any conversation about ANet clarity back in GW1 days ends with bringing up the Polar Bear.

Soooo… the worst example they can come up with from GW1 days is about a cosmetic mini-pet. And this is supposed to undermine the argument that Anet has always been trustworthy until now?

I totally get that. Really, I do.

Flynch.6034:

Inept is definitely the term i’d use for how they handled it. But they can try to recoup this ineptitude with ongoing transparency if they so wish, and there may be room for compromise. Personally i’m excited about the content, i’m looking forwards to new lands etc but the idea of a treadmill is not something I want. I’m just hoping that they gone and dun goof’d with their PR.

That’s what I’m hoping as well. They have a really solid track record so far, and there’s a very real possibility that this is all the result of stupidity. If it’s not, and this is stat inflation, I don’t expect I’ll play anymore except to drag alts around to see the world and play with my wife when she’s in the mood. I certainly won’t pay for any more content. Even if it’s just an innocent mistake, I intend to never participate in the new dungeon. It stinks of a monotonous gear grind, and I’d rather be out in the world. They should focus their dev time on revamping Dynamic events- make the chains longer, more impactful, and longer lasting. A long escalating chain like that, which gets harder as you go and the longer it’s been active- would make for much better progression content then a repetitive dungeon.

Grab-bag of comments here.

From the German translated response:

Q: Ascended items fill the time gap, but why does that mean they have to have better stats?
A: They know there are different ways to fill the time gap, and were expecting different opinions on whether stat rises were the right choice—so they aren’t surprised by all the anger right now.

Does this mean they may change their mind, and release the new gear with the same stat level?

As a side note, they are counting on the slow release of Ascended gear to contribute to the feeling of it being a longer-term goal than exotics.

This will fail. Every time it’s released, it’s an IMMEDIATE goal. Just because the whole set will take longer does not change the psychology of desire and reward behind needing to have the best.

Flynch.6034:

If we want transparency from a company, they need to know that their news will be received intelligently and thoughtfully. Many have done so, but a majority have gone right off the deep-end.

To be fair, they did not release the news in a transparent manner. A few days before release, with few details, no requests for feedback from the community, and no meaningful response since the uproar started? This is at best clumsy and inept, and at worst an attempt to push changes through before the outcry becomes too bad (note: if so, it failed. It was always going to. It has failed in every game that tried it, ever. Google “Monoclegate” or read up on http://massively.joystiq.com/tag/monoclegate/ for a good case study on failure to communicate with fans and the results. also, a good study in how to repair the damage). The reason that so many have “gone off the deep end,” is that there’s no time to give feedback and no acknowledgement from the company that feedback is wanted or was ever considered. It’s a blindside strike, and the response is just as reflexive.

OP-

See, the point of the non-subscription sandbox model is that you can come here, do whatever you want, and then leave. A couple months later, when there is more content, you can pick it up again with no cost and no loss of progress, because there’s no treadmill.

Wait. Something’s odd about that last bit. If only I could put my finger on it. Oh well.

I havn’t even logged in since I read the blog. Well, I did for about a minute to see if LA chat had anything interesting to say, but it was suspiciously quiet. Then I went and downloaded the Path Of Exile beta that’s been sitting in my mailbox for the past week.

Of course it’s the last tier. It’s been very clearly stated that gear will cap out at the Exotic Ascended tier of power, and nothing else will be added.

Edit: I love how I respond to an OP, and then it gets merged and the context changed, so that the post doesn’t make sense anymore.

No.

In fact I havn’t even logged in since I read the announcement. The thought that everything I worked for, the world I explored, the skills I learned might all be obsoleted and replaced has stolen all enjoyment I get from playing. I’ve been there and played that game before, I don’t want it again.

Granted it might not happen that way, but the wording of the blog and Chris’s response both strongly suggest that it is. If that door is opened, my wallet is shut.

arcaneclarity.5283:

There was no gap between legendary and exotic.

There was a gap in preception between them, which I think is what the devs were getting at. Also, what I think they were getting at when they say “reward”. I’ll grant them that, since it’s been their design principle so far. I’ll also grant them a “gateway grind” for a particular content chain, since it’s optional doesn’t effect the rest of the game.

The screenshots posted show that Ascended gear has superior stats. If it releases that way, then it does effect the rest of the game. That’s the issue.

I think it’s because he sounds like that Xtranormal character.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN0W2j-XWR8

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill.
…
Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director

One question.

Just one.

Please respond with a yes or no.

Will Ascended level gear+Infusions be statistically superior to existing Exotics+Upgrade level gear?

edit: Mr. Whiteside’s post is on page 120 for those who don’t want to dig.

It takes months to develop new MMO content; there’s no way that this could have been done in response to a recent change in server traffic. It’s been planned for a long time.

Why not just make gear with two upgrade slots? One regular, one infusion? That way, there’s no power gap and no change in current gearing strategies. It’s so incredibly simple, it’s stunning.

They didn’t do that though. That’s what worries. If they didn’t go for the simple solution that makes the most minimal changes, there must be larger plans at work. And based on the wording of the blog, they appear to be treadmill type plans. That’s bad.

RoChan.1926:

But was there really no other better way that would have decreased that gap without the introduction of new gear with higher stats?

That’s the thing. There IS such a way, and one that they themselves have used. It’s the one that this change is based on in the first place- Infusion, from GW1 Prophecies campaign. The difference is, instead of getting new gear, you did a series of quests through multiple dungeons to get infusion added to the gear you already had, like an enchantment.

There’s no power gap there whatsoever; it’s just doing PVE content as a gateway to other PVE content. Outside of that content chain, there was no effect at all. The new gear has a new layer of power; that’s unacceptable.

Suddenflame.2601:

complete outrage from failing to understand what is going on. in my above post i stated why they are doing this and people are just calling it a gear trendmill when it isnt. Its 1 tier above exotic and 1 tier below legendary. Trendmill requires that the new gear be stronger then the previous to ensure people have to work for it for Future content.

It has tiers of power and rarity. That makes it a treadmill. Saying it doesn’t, and then defining it in terms of tiers is contradictory and undermines your point.

Eveningstar.6940:

…
The real casualty is credibility. GW2 was designed on the passions of a development team with a very specific design philosophy.
…
Gear should not be something you should keep up with.
That was the principle on which ArenaNet built its good will. That was the basis of the trust it cultivated between itself and its community.
…
ANet hasn’t lost my subscription because there wasn’t one to begin with. They haven’t lost my interest because I still love the game they’ve created. What they have lost is my good will, and that’s not something I give lightly, and it’s also not something anyone else values except me.

QFT

Except, I WILL be voting with my wallet. I will keep exploring; keep playing alts; keep having a good time. After all, the gameplay is fun, and there’s no subscription so it’s free to me. But I’ve lost all incentive to achieve anything. I’ve lost all desire to purchase any content with real $ ever again. This will no longer be my “home” MMO, and I won’t be investing in it.

Few?

The merged thread has 5k responses to it. That’s the biggest thread in the history of GW2. Almost all of it negative. That’s not whining; that’s complete outrage.

I hate you Anet.

Allow me to propose an alternative to power creep that keeps the same kind of progression. Inspired by GW1.

Step 1: Create a monster ability that is so powerful it must be countered in order to progress (done).
Step 2: Create a counter that players have to work for, but that DOES NOT CAUSE POWER CREEP. Example: Doing a series of quests and/or dungeons in order to “Infuse” your armor with magical protection against the Mursaat. This simultaneously introduces content chains, progression, and reward. And it doesn’t involve power creep. Yay!
Step 0.5: Realize this is a good idea, note that you have a 5000 response thread, the majority of which hates your new idea, and halt the release. Eat the short-term loss, suck it up, and go back to the drawing board. Release the content when you have a properly GW-ish system in place.

I will not buy any expansions of GW2, ever, if it includes Power Creep.

It runs 100% counter to the reasons I enjoy GW2 in the first place, and takes away my reason for playing here instead of another sandbox, like say, EVE Online.

Do something sort of like this.

Water
4 (snare), 2 (dmg they can’t outrun cause they are chilled)
Earth
5 (root), 4 (cripple), 2 (dmg they cant outrun cause they are crippled)
Fire
2 on top of your Eruption.
Dodge into fire field. Arcane wave.
Enjoy your 13 stacks of might (you runed/sigiled for might on swap, and bonus might duration right?).
Watch Fire Autoattack hit for 1.5k without crits.
After about 5 seconds in fire, do another dodge into your fire field, then repeat the sequence for epic damage now with 20+ stacks of might.

I don’t like not being in control. Therefore, I don’t like pvp. There’s not much more to it than that.

There’s 2 or 3 threads about this on the Norn forum already.

The real question should be, why did they increase movement speed out of combat? So people can travel faster? Who needs that?

No.

It’s more important to have a reliable hub for starting parties, trolling map chat, conducting auctions and trades, etc. Most of the time, with the exception of afternoon primetime, LA doesn’t even have overflow. If you took those people and spread them out 5 ways, there would hardly be anyone around.

Go to Rata Sum, Divinity’s Reach, etc for your crafting and personal business, and go to LA when you want/need other players. You’ve got both options, just use the right one at the right time.

Putting some racial/lore events into the other cities is still a good idea anyway, though. Good thinking, whoever that was.

I disagree. Permanently stowing pets has uses other then just hiding them- such as keeping them safe during dangerous AOE, and then letting them loose again. It would also be useful to unclutter the screen for jumping puzzles and such.

The death sentence for pets is if their unable-to-attack-while-moving bug is never fixed.

Thief, Mesmer, and Engineer all have reliable access to stealth, and every other class can get it by combo’ing in someone else smoke field. It’s not unique at all.

Camo (out of combat stealth while not moving) would be unique in how it’s used- it would be useful for scouting or ambushing, but little else, and it’s activated in a unique way. The differences in playstyle are significant, and it fits the hunter/woodsman theme of the ranger perfectly.

Add in the needed direct-hits revealing stealth, and it would be a fun addition to the game.

That’s the natural range of her voice, although usually at the low end of it. Here’s a good example of Claudia Christian acting Norn years before she was Norn:

http://www.thewb.com/shows/babylon-5/eyes/d8094242c2

Approximately 16:30. CC has been delivering great lines for years