Guild Wars 2

Meridya.9352:

This problem isn’t just limited to Verdant Brink: I completed Auric Basin a few days ago and haven’t received a map completion chest for it. I asked about the problem in map chat and someone told me that this is a known problem and is caused by already having 100% map completion in Core Tyria. I don’t know if that’s actually the case, but sounds plausible.

It’s all maps.

I have 100% in VB, AB, and TD. Nothing. Zilch. Nada.

New patch up and this still isn’t fixed.

Before I was mad, now i’m just bitter. Fix-r-Upper collection has been at 13/14 for the past week.

Thanks anet.

Curunen.8729:

Ricky Rouse.1583:

Curunen.8729:

Mesmers have one evade on one weapon – blurred frenzy, on a base 12s cooldown, which is usually left untraited because Blinding Dissipation is superior to take.

They have one evade on a utility, providing they trait Chrono – well of precognition (which if they take often means they don’t take decoy – a significant loss of stealth).

Distortion is on a long cooldown, and only reduced if a player takes the Illusions line – which few if no power builds take over any three from Dom/Duel/Chaos/Insp/Chrono, and condi builds have other problems.

There are a maximum of 4 stealth skills, most of the time the maximum used will be 3 – prestige, decoy and Mass invis. If a player uses torch, they are very likely not using shield which means no channeled block defence, or aoe stun/interrupt.

Personal alacrity generation through flow of time and if specifically taking improved alacrity requires frequent shattering to maintain decent up time – but spamming shatters is usually not a smart idea against any decent opponent, especially if playing a power build. For condi builds, even with shatter “spam”, the damage/application is still mediocre and easy to either avoid or counter.

The only way to generate significant alacrity is through traited wells and shield phantasms – but that means a player will sacrifice their utitlity skills (decoy, blink, portal, Condi cleanse, mantra of distraction, time warp, mass invis, superior heals, etc) in order to take sufficient wells – and the playstyle requires standing in a well when it ends to reap the benefit – easier to predict and counter.
As for shield phantasms – again most players running a build with shield don’t use Torch, so that’s at least one less source of stealth (max two others, decoy and mass invis).

Scepter block is single target, single block and pretty useless against multiple hits. Few people use offhand sword, and again if they do that means either no shield, no torch or no two handed weapon (most use at least one lf the two handed weapons in any build). Aegis on PU is random – and if a player is using PU it means one out of either no Chrono, no Deceptive Evasion/Blinding Dissipation, or no torment shatter/ineptitude – a significant tradeoff.
Aegis from chaos storm is also random and has a long cooldown.

There are significant holes in every Mesmer build once you realise the weapon set, utilities and traits they’re running and there are straightforward ways to figure this out quickly from watching what they do in a fight.

The only argument I can accept is CSplit back to back shatter spam – but this is a one trick pony which also requires destroying one or two illusions first to get any decent use from it. Bait it out and once it’s been used up it has a very long cooldown.

A 12s CD on sword #2 is hardly a factor. 4s of Alacrity will fully recharge it, and you cannot seriously imply Alacrity is something that is hard to come by. You also cannot boonstrip it, meaning even cele signet necros aren’t going to help you in this scenario.

And i’m not complaining about stealth. I didn’t even mention that, or Aegis. Stealth can be countered with a plethora of abilities and Aegis can be boonstripped. Straight up blocks require you running anti-block INTERRUPTING abilities, some classes have very easy access to this kind of stuff, like Necro. Other classes aren’t so lucky. Signet of Power, for example, is hardly ever used. Throw mine is hardly ever used. You can maybe make an argument for Spike Trap, but I can’t even remember the last time I saw it.

Once again, I never brought up Aegis or Stealth or whatnot. I’m talking about abilities that basically just read “Block for a long time or become invulnerable.” These abilities need to become less frequent, the more you give to a class the longer they can cycle them. Engineer is the best example of this with them cycling two 4s invulns with a 3s block so they can get off a free, riskless heal and essentially make you have to kill them twice. That isn’t fun. That isn’t esports.

I don’t want to play a game where every other character plays like Puck, and half their play-style revolves around becoming invulnerable long enough to wait for cooldowns or allies to show up. Like I said, defensive abilities need to be less reward, or more risk. There is no risk to just hitting “Blurred Frenzy” and living for two seconds, either you were dead anyways or you potentially turn the fight.

Blurred frenzy is a risk in itself. You root yourself meaning it’s easy for an enemy to wait out the evade and cc/burst as soon as it ends. The damage of blurred frenzy is pitiful and it is also susceptible to retal.

I don’t understand your criticism of blurred frenzy.

I brought up aegis because you talked about blocks in your OP – therefore aegis is relevant as a block. And as stealth is an often complained about mechanic when it comes to Mesmer defence I felt it relevant to discuss when also talking about blocks/invuln/evade.

The only relevant block in that case is Shield 4, which could do with a reduced channel duration.

Blurred frenzy has been nerfed enough over the years – there are plenty of other defensive weapon skills available to spam on a other classes and honestly blurred frenzy is the least worrying of the lot.

Now if we look at revenants UA on the other hand…

Uh? No? Aegis and Block are different things entirely.

Aegis can be countered. I hit them with some kitten-poor attack that hits a million times, IE Warrior Axe, Flamethrower #1, Revenant Staff, and I just burned the Aegis. Despite that it is STILL countered by anti-block abilities. It is also countered by boon stripping/boon corruption.

Block abilities that read “Block for x seconds” are not the same. I can hit a Guardian with Shelter up or an Engineer or Mesmer with his shield up 1000000 times in the span of the skills duration, it will NEVER expire unless I explicitly not only find an ability that bypasses block itself, but also INTERRUPTS him.

It is much easier to counter aegis than it is to counter gear shield or deja vu.

As for Blurred Frenzy, like I said, its no risk with a huge potential reward. “Lmao rooted in place” is just as stupid a counter argument as people who say “Elixir S removes the ability to do anything”

Yeah, but guess what? You’re still invulnerable. Chances are if Elixir S or Blurred Frenzy won’t save you, nothing will, and you were dead anyways.

So that means nothing to lose —-—> everything to gain

Curunen.8729:

Mesmers have one evade on one weapon – blurred frenzy, on a base 12s cooldown, which is usually left untraited because Blinding Dissipation is superior to take.

They have one evade on a utility, providing they trait Chrono – well of precognition (which if they take often means they don’t take decoy – a significant loss of stealth).

Distortion is on a long cooldown, and only reduced if a player takes the Illusions line – which few if no power builds take over any three from Dom/Duel/Chaos/Insp/Chrono, and condi builds have other problems.

There are a maximum of 4 stealth skills, most of the time the maximum used will be 3 – prestige, decoy and Mass invis. If a player uses torch, they are very likely not using shield which means no channeled block defence, or aoe stun/interrupt.

Personal alacrity generation through flow of time and if specifically taking improved alacrity requires frequent shattering to maintain decent up time – but spamming shatters is usually not a smart idea against any decent opponent, especially if playing a power build. For condi builds, even with shatter “spam”, the damage/application is still mediocre and easy to either avoid or counter.

The only way to generate significant alacrity is through traited wells and shield phantasms – but that means a player will sacrifice their utitlity skills (decoy, blink, portal, Condi cleanse, mantra of distraction, time warp, mass invis, superior heals, etc) in order to take sufficient wells – and the playstyle requires standing in a well when it ends to reap the benefit – easier to predict and counter.
As for shield phantasms – again most players running a build with shield don’t use Torch, so that’s at least one less source of stealth (max two others, decoy and mass invis).

Scepter block is single target, single block and pretty useless against multiple hits. Few people use offhand sword, and again if they do that means either no shield, no torch or no two handed weapon (most use at least one lf the two handed weapons in any build). Aegis on PU is random – and if a player is using PU it means one out of either no Chrono, no Deceptive Evasion/Blinding Dissipation, or no torment shatter/ineptitude – a significant tradeoff.
Aegis from chaos storm is also random and has a long cooldown.

There are significant holes in every Mesmer build once you realise the weapon set, utilities and traits they’re running and there are straightforward ways to figure this out quickly from watching what they do in a fight.

The only argument I can accept is CSplit back to back shatter spam – but this is a one trick pony which also requires destroying one or two illusions first to get any decent use from it. Bait it out and once it’s been used up it has a very long cooldown.

A 12s CD on sword #2 is hardly a factor. 4s of Alacrity will fully recharge it, and you cannot seriously imply Alacrity is something that is hard to come by. You also cannot boonstrip it, meaning even cele signet necros aren’t going to help you in this scenario.

And i’m not complaining about stealth. I didn’t even mention that, or Aegis. Stealth can be countered with a plethora of abilities and Aegis can be boonstripped. Straight up blocks require you running anti-block INTERRUPTING abilities, some classes have very easy access to this kind of stuff, like Necro. Other classes aren’t so lucky. Signet of Power, for example, is hardly ever used. Throw mine is hardly ever used. You can maybe make an argument for Spike Trap, but I can’t even remember the last time I saw it.

Once again, I never brought up Aegis or Stealth or whatnot. I’m talking about abilities that basically just read “Block for a long time or become invulnerable.” These abilities need to become less frequent, the more you give to a class the longer they can cycle them. Engineer is the best example of this with them cycling two 4s invulns with a 3s block so they can get off a free, riskless heal and essentially make you have to kill them twice. That isn’t fun. That isn’t esports.

I don’t want to play a game where every other character plays like Puck, and half their play-style revolves around becoming invulnerable long enough to wait for cooldowns or allies to show up. Like I said, defensive abilities need to be less reward, or more risk. There is no risk to just hitting “Blurred Frenzy” and living for two seconds, either you were dead anyways or you potentially turn the fight.

Before I begin i’d like to say that I am NOT stating that defensive abilities are bad. That is far from what i’m saying. I am not advocating for the game to become zerk simulator 2015 where it’s all about who can be killed the fastest. I am all for bunker builds, and tankiness through healing and stats and boons.

But something has got to be done about invulnerability, block and evade cycling.

I tried out PvP after getting most of what I wanted to do in HoT done, and the problem I had before with Engineer’s cycling Healing Turret, Shield Block, Throw Elixir S, Traited Elixir S, and Elixir S itself would not have prepared myself for what awaited me here.

Mesmers went from burst assassins to having constant protection, blocks, evades on sword, and invulns on the shatter. Then they continuum shift and do it all over again. Then they hit Alacrity and get it up faster. By the time i’ve maybe had a chance to find a point where a majority of the defensive skills were on cooldown, i’ve wasted god knows how much time and there’s a chance a teammate will show up to clean up the fight.

Then I ran into a couple Revs. Even when I got the timing for their heal down where I would stop attacking, there were little, to no points where I could actually deal meaningful damage. The protection was insane, and once I got through the heal, there was the matter of the block, then the evade, then the assault, then more evades, more prot, block came back, more evades, block, evades, block, repeat.

All the while, Druids were healing these people back up while I can’t hit them.

This is getting absurd. The lines between “This person is vulnerable” and “This person has defensive abilities at the ready” is getting overwhelmingly blurred. I have no idea when to attack the mesmer. I have no idea when to attack the revenant. They are unable to be hit more often than they are not.

This type of gameplay needs to stop. Defensive abilities need to be about REDUCING damage, on top of good defensive stats, to attrition out your opponent without straight up telling them “Lololol you cant hit me lololol”

This wouldn’t be such an issue if this game was designed with every class having access to inherent evades, the dodge. All classes have a built in way to avoid damage, or stall out the fight. When we start piling invulnerability on top of that, it stops being a like a tech block, where you need to use it at a crucial moment, and becomes this twisted, warped type of gameplay where the only way to kill someone, or to ensure that they are indeed vulnerable, is to pile on so much CC that they won’t be able to hit any of their defensive “Buy me time” buttons, even with a stunbreak.

I agree entirely, superspeed needs to do something other then be “well its swiftness…but faster!”

It’s far, FAR too overvalued. Rewatching the PoI, Irenio seemed to believe that Superspeed is some secret totally OP thing that everyone just underestimates, just like lightning fields.

When the truth is that just because it’s rare doesn’t mean it’s good. Just because Lightning fields are hard to come by doesn’t change the fact that the kitten things are useful in all of 1 finisher: leaps. Everything else is outclassed by almost any other field, kitten you get AREA SWIFTNESS when you blast it. Running away or getting into the battle faster is nice, but ultimately it changes nothing about the actual outcome in real PvP scenarios. You aren’t going to get away on low health without instant blinks or teleports, going REALLY REALLY FAST isn’t going to change the fact that the Dragonhunter is bearing down on your bum. Quickness comes in a freaking abundance and it can turn the tide of a fight, superspeed is tiny iddy biddy applications and it will serve little to no purpose.

Superspeed is just as overrated in the eyes of Irenio/the developers as Lightning fields are. “Hey, look at FINAL SALVO! It gives you a lightning field AND Superspeed! Wow look at all that value!…Hey, wait, stop taking Adaptive Armor. Final salvo is useful. Take Final Salvo. I SAID TAKE FINAL SALVO, IT’S GOOD. FINE I’M NERFING ADAPTIVE ARMOR”

Superspeed needs to do something else. It needs to be something more than better swiftness, especially considering how low all sources of it are (2s lol)

I only use Sneak Gyro in PvE to avoid/skip mobs.

Other than that, Explosive Gyro is garbage, throw mine hilariously probably is better since it can actually crit and applies vuln, and actually has a good toolbelt. Purge Gyro has way too many problems keeping up, as does the heal gyro. Shredder gyro keeps getting knocked out of its field, function gyro will fail to do anything if the target is on anything but a perfect flat surface and bulwark gyro is useless when I have a million evades and blocks and recovery matrix regardless.

In SPvP, Sneak Gyro is the only contender. Everything else suffers from the same problems stated above, except they die much more easily because no 95% damage reduction.

So basically everything everyone has been saying since we played the BWE

10/10 awesome work everyone.

archmagus.7249:

santenal.1054:

Anet nerfing nice things I see. How likely is a sneak gyro nerf?

I think we’ve got a bigger worry about having detection pulse being Nerfed. Thieves have been complaining about that ever since it’s been revealed.

HA

Revealed.

The only thing holding me back from it is the 100% completion bug

that makes me a little upset

A couple things to note:

-Almost all the items are given on the first go at whatever is required to get them.

-Easiest place to find the Treasure Mushroom is in the Grub Pit, Tangled Depths. You NEED Stealth Training to participate in the event. It doesn’t work if you just hit him.

-Machined Hammer is by far the biggest hurdle next to the exp grind, and it’s only one part of it: The handle. I’m fairly certain the kitten thing is lying when it says “Found in Noxious Pods”, because I cracked open 50 of the things over 3 successful DS maps and get zilch, but I suddenly obtained it when opening the chest you get when you beat the mouth of mordremoth, which I think is where you ACTUALLY get it, and the noxious pod thing is just outdated/false

HGH Now grants only 15s of might instead of 20

Adaptive Armor grants 60 toughness per stack, instead of 100 (Now the exact same as Corruptor’s Fervor at max stacks)

This really came out of nowhere, is there any reason as to why?

Where are the vendors for these items? Where are the vendors for the class-based inscriptions? It says plated weapons are sold at Nuhoch vendors, but i’ve been to two nuhoch vendors and they ONLY sold Chak weapons.

And people have said there are no vendors in a completed dragon’s stand map.

I got 100% map completion in Auric Basin, but got NO reward. Do I need to complete all masteries shown on the map as well?

Arantheal.7396:

so what is the ele one?
A cloud?
A droplet?
A flame?

To this day, I have no idea
…
..
.

._.

It’s fire/a flame.

lorddarkflare.9186:

Ricky Rouse.1583:

Engineer couldn’t be any farther then what you envisioned it to be.

Turrets do not scale with any power/weapon strength, meaning the numbers you see on them for raw damage is what you get. Even assuming they take 95% less damage, they still do diddly for damage.

In PvE, the meta is using as many kits as possible bar the med kit, so your setup will be something like FT Grenades and either bomb kit or EGun depending on your stat setup, finished off with Mortar Kit for orbital strike.

Then, you just hit all the buttons. For example, streamlined kits —--> Mortar gun for the throw gunk to synergize with modified ammo —->Egun —-> Acid bomb —-> FT —-> flameblast into napalm wall —-> Grenades #2, #4 and #5 back to rifle and Blunderbuss —-> jumpshot and repeat it over and over until the boss is dead. Didn’t even count the toolbelts in this rotation, which you have to use as well (Grenade Barrage, Orbital Strike and Incendiary Ammo)

You don’t even use auto attacks much, and if you do its the grenades.

You basically just mash every button that has a high number and do nothing else. That is the state of Engineer, and while it may change for Raids I doubt it will change for dungeons or fractals.

I don’t like it either. Turrets need to scale with Power or they will continue to be a joke.

That is just the optimal rotation for damage.

You are not required to play that way. Playing optimally is never really ‘fun’ it is functional.

This applies to all classes.

He said he wanted to go kitless and use turrets.

Going full turrets is so terrible in current content that you might as well kick the guy and run with a bearbow full soldiers ranger. It isn’t so much “not optimal” as it is “entirely useless”.

And the state of the Engineer is the exact opposite of kitless.

insanemaniac.2456:

Ricky Rouse.1583:

insanemaniac.2456:

Ricky Rouse.1583:

You basically just mash every button that has a high number and do nothing else. That is the state of Engineer, and while it may change for Raids I doubt it will change for dungeons or fractals.

and then after a while you realize you can thread in blinds, chills/cripples, and ccs at good times and double the survival rate of your group by just thinking while you play instead of mindlessly memorizing your cds and facerolling your piano.

u always so mad bro, take a chill pill

Oh no, I understand entirely how good blinds/chills are, the problem being all you have to do is unload the endothermic/phospho shells in the mortar kit, and it accomplishes that job anyways. Chill grenades are also a given, because they deal more damage then standard grenades so are a part of your regular rotation.

But CC? You aren’t taking Supply Crate, and most of your CC is knockbacks, which is a HUGE No-No. Where is the CC coming from, pray tell?

I can’t wait to hear another one of your fantastic arguments in the vein of “U MAD DOE” /s

rifle 4, bob, air blast, magnet, mine, healing turret

knowing when to use them and when not to will make you twice as useful. you can literally do map completion, dungeoneer, and be fractal level 50 without paying attention to ccs, but you wont be farming fractals as an engi without making them easier by using those skills properly.

You can make an argument for magnet on block bosses, but the rest, as I said, are DETRIMENTS

People complain all the time about how a Ranger messed everything up when he uses his longbow knockback. People are going to despise you just as well when you use BoB, Air Blast, and Rifle 4 to interrupt the boss instead of getting someone with an actual stun to do it.

Displacing a boss out of AoE is a terrible idea. Hard stuns will always be better as lifesaving CC then knockbacks. Never use knockbacks for hard CC unless its Mai Trin and you need to get her into the lightning circle.

insanemaniac.2456:

Ricky Rouse.1583:

You basically just mash every button that has a high number and do nothing else. That is the state of Engineer, and while it may change for Raids I doubt it will change for dungeons or fractals.

and then after a while you realize you can thread in blinds, chills/cripples, and ccs at good times and double the survival rate of your group by just thinking while you play instead of mindlessly memorizing your cds and facerolling your piano.

u always so mad bro, take a chill pill

Oh no, I understand entirely how good blinds/chills are, the problem being all you have to do is unload the endothermic/phospho shells in the mortar kit, and it accomplishes that job anyways. Chill grenades are also a given, because they deal more damage then standard grenades so are a part of your regular rotation.

But CC? You aren’t taking Supply Crate, and most of your CC is knockbacks, which is a HUGE No-No. Where is the CC coming from, pray tell?

I can’t wait to hear another one of your fantastic arguments in the vein of “U MAD DOE” /s

lorddarkflare.9186:

Manuhell.2759:

lorddarkflare.9186:

They do not want minions to be effective in PvP. That has been obvious for years.

Short of a complete re-work, I think turrets are mostly dead in PvP.

Truth be told, I can live with this.

Honestly, i don’t care a bit whether they want or not for them to be effective.
Those utilities are there, and they have to work. In any mode.
If they don’t want them to be effective on purpose, then remove them and give us something that is supposed to work. But just don’t leave them to waste.
And for the love of the six gods, especially don’t make new ai-based skill types if they are purposefully designed to be useless in two thirds of the game. Cause it makes no sense at all, and it ends up being a waste of time for both us and them. Yes, i’m talking about gyro.

Ehh, pretty much all classes have useless utility types or a gaggle of useless skills.

And I think it is pretty unreasonable to demand that all utilities be effective in every mode. That is just not going to happen and it already does not.

That said, I DO think the turrets should be updated and made useful. I just do not think that this will happen in the same way everyone expects them to. More likely than not, if turrets are useful gain, it will be in a completely different way than they are now.

Also, Gyros are not useless. And those that look to be, are thus not because they are A.I. (Blast Gyro, Shredder Gyro, Purge Gyro) but because they are poorly designed.

Kits are effective in every mode though. It’s possible, they just don’t even bother trying.

Turrets haven’t been touched since they were nerfed.

Star.8401:

its actually a bomb

It’s an elixir. The fuse wouldn’t be in the right place.

Also it should be a wrench.

Engineer couldn’t be any farther then what you envisioned it to be.

Turrets do not scale with any power/weapon strength, meaning the numbers you see on them for raw damage is what you get. Even assuming they take 95% less damage, they still do diddly for damage.

In PvE, the meta is using as many kits as possible bar the med kit, so your setup will be something like FT Grenades and either bomb kit or EGun depending on your stat setup, finished off with Mortar Kit for orbital strike.

Then, you just hit all the buttons. For example, streamlined kits —--> Mortar gun for the throw gunk to synergize with modified ammo —->Egun —-> Acid bomb —-> FT —-> flameblast into napalm wall —-> Grenades #2, #4 and #5 back to rifle and Blunderbuss —-> jumpshot and repeat it over and over until the boss is dead. Didn’t even count the toolbelts in this rotation, which you have to use as well (Grenade Barrage, Orbital Strike and Incendiary Ammo)

You don’t even use auto attacks much, and if you do its the grenades.

You basically just mash every button that has a high number and do nothing else. That is the state of Engineer, and while it may change for Raids I doubt it will change for dungeons or fractals.

I don’t like it either. Turrets need to scale with Power or they will continue to be a joke.

Dahkeus.8243:

Ok, so you’re argument that we have “no profession mechanic” in PvE is flat out wrong and it’s pretty clear that it’s just a poor use of rhetoric to veil your real grudge, which is that you don’t like a mechanic that focuses on reviving players.

So don’t b.s. Just say that you don’t like the focus on reviving and skip the lies.

You didn’t play Scrapper much did you?

It has about 10k health, or close to it (for scale reference a bone minion on Necro has about 20-30k health)

I couldn’t revive people at the Wyvern boss fight.

I couldn’t revive people in any dungeons. I couldn’t revive them if the enemy had any meaningful AoE. I couldn’t revive anyone in PvP as people were already attacking the downed body or halfway through stomping it. Functionally it was useless. Even more useless in raids, where 99% of the enemies have VERY large AoE attacks and instantkill AoE abilities. Furthermore, people going down in raids isn’t something that is supposed to happen and just happens occasionally, usually people are downed en masse, at which point Function Gyro has its function completely outclassed by Elixir R.

Function Gyro is a joke. Don’t act like it’s some secret OP because you want to be a hipster.

They took the worst gyro which is essentially a heavier version of throw mine (that got hit the hardest by the CD increase as it is the only Gyro that dies near instantly), then took it’s toolbelt ability, which, mind you, shares the same cooldown and effect that Slick Shoes toolbelt does, except 2s shorter, and made that the stunbreak.

And NOT the reflect field on Bulwark, which would make much more sense as a defensive utility?

Deax.1572:

Thief uses Shadow step, shadow refuge, re-stealth over and over. It’s kay.
Mesmer spams condis while having reflects, block, blinds, Decoy and Blink and other stealth and invuln. It’s kay.
Warrior uses This invlun. granting stance then that invuln. granting stance. It’s kay.
BUT OHHH kitten ENGI USES GEAR SHIELD AND EXLEXIR S WITHOUT having ANY mobility skill other than jump shot or none at all if p/p & p/s and one stun break. So op, so broken. Laughable. Get out.

Distortion has a 50s cooldown, requires an active resource, and doesn’t also give you stealth on the same ability. Thief has blinks and stealth, but they don’t have the power of magnet, jump shot, blunderbuss, grenades, ect. They have Basilisk Venom and…yeah. You aren’t dying to him unless you’re also using zerk. Engineer doesn’t need mobility because catching up to him means nothing if you still are powerless to stop his invulnerability.

And if you think Stances are a problem I don’t know what to tell you. It’s the easiest skill category to play around in the entire game, and even traited it lasts, what, 5, 6 seconds? Elixir S + traited Elixir S is a greater duration, not counting Gear Shield, not counting the stealth.

Adamantium.3682:

I’ll ignore the part where you put things in quotes that never said, and try to change the point you were making that I initially responded to.

I must have missed the time when Engis were carrying teams and those with the most Engis always won. That’s because it’s never happened.

It honestly sounds to me like you enjoy Engi and you don’t like that other people you deem noobs can be good at what you’ve spent a lot of time being good at. Seems petty.

Maybe you should get some more experience on other professions because your view is not very objective. They all have something you can complain about, but in the end it’s pretty balanced overall.

Whoa whoa WHOA, talking about putting words into mouths you bloody hypocrite, when did I say it was overpowered? Or even “too good” or “too strong”? It isn’t. I said it was unhealthy and killing the class. But i’m sure your “lol didnt read” approach is excellent. Furthermore, the original point was “why do people get mad at Engineers” and I think even if you deny it you know full well why.

And I know about the strengths and weaknesses of other classes, I don’t need to play them for a decade to learn about them. Thief has a ton of mobility and ways to break the fight, but if you’re on the point before he is, what can he do without a buddy? Engineer, however, can actively fight you, and a 2 v 1 if he’s good enough. Guardians have ONE invuln, and the rest is block. Engineer has one block, and it’s on a low cooldown, then the rest is invuln. Block and invuln are two very different things. Magnet, for example, can completely ruin a Guardian just on the merit that it bypasses blocks. Mesmer has a lot of blinks and good mobility and burst, but it suffers from the same issue that SD Engineer does: The minute the burst is blown you have two options: Stay and die or run away and wait for cooldowns. They have no invulnerability to help them out, granted, neither does SD Engineer, but solly rifle is just as bursty with barrage, also being able to rely a million fallback plans and one of the best heals in the game.

Warrior has nothing to do when the stances are down aside from get kited, Burnguard has nothing to do if his burn gets cleansed, ect ect ect. These weaknesses are apparent. There are two culprits that are exempt from this: And they are Engineer and Elementalist. Engineer being weak only to damaging conditions once HT is down, and Elementalist being vulnerable to stuns once his stunbreak and armor is down.

When Engineer actually has to react to a situation in a way other than “Whoops i’m dying time to cycle invuln and book it”, we can start calling it a harder class to play. But convincing yourself that what Engineers do now is healthy is nothing but your sickening bias.

Adamantium.3682:

Ricky Rouse.1583:

…
Elixir S and Gear Shield need to be removed from the game.
…

I think I’ve seen it all…

You aren’t “outplaying” anyone. You aren’t even playing the game. You’re playing the waiting game.

If you exclusively play Engi why does this post sound so much like a case of “mad cuz bad”?

I would say regardless of profession most good PvP players play the waiting game. Wait for an opening. Wait for opponent to burn cleanses. Wait for them to use cooldowns. Wait to use dodges for dangerous attacks. Wait to cleanse the right conditions. And yes, stall and use defensive skills while you wait for your heal to come back up. This is pretty typical of high level PvP.

If you just run in Leeroy Jenkins style it might work in hot join or low tier games but I feel that to be really good in PvP you’re supposed to play a patient waiting game.

Except patience isn’t what the Engineer’s do. I’m convinced YOU’RE the hotjoin hero.

They toss grenades until you dodge once or twice, then proceed to attempt the magnet —-> Barrage combo. If by some method that fails, they will just continue to attack until you get angry enough to try and deal with the issue. They get to about 50% health and will pop HT. Get them back down to 50% and its gear shield. Then Elixir S. Then traited Elixir S. Then Throw Elixir S. Then Gear Shield. Then HT again and at this point his teammates probably killed you.

The fact that you think this is “deep, interactive skill based combat” is a joke. There is no way to actually burst an Engineer down, because unless you deal 10k+ damage in a single hit, he will just get one of his two invulnerability procs and then run away. Did you ever stop to wonder why Engineers are almost ALWAYS focused first in a big fight? It’s probably because everyone wants to proc their invulns first so they don’t have them later. It’s probably because the only way to even kill an Engineer using solly rifle w/traited S is to load him up with 5000 stacks of burn, proc his 25% invuln and then get him to die to the burn. And if “well just get him under circumstances that would kill almost everyone else” is the method of killing a class…well that’s stupid. That’s not even CONSIDERING the fact that Alchemical Tinctures exists and it might come down to the wonderful RNG cleansing the burning, letting him get off scot-free.

This may be a problem with other classes as well, but Engineers abuse this garbage the most. And yes, I have like 600-800 games on my Engineer and not even 100 combined total on the other classes. I play A LOT of Engineer. And I can safely say my own class is populated entirely by annoying little children who cycle invulnerability and think they’re good while doing it.

Whenever I pick up Soldier Rifle with Elixir S Gear Shield HT and Vamp Runes I just feel disgusted. I spend less time playing the game and more time leading everyone on a goose chase while they die to my teammates, and if they chase me they lose the point. If they don’t I just come back and do it all over again. It’s why I prefer to just play an HGH Juggernaut build without Elixir S or tool kit, at least then I actually get to play the game

Whatever vision Anet had for Engineer, I don’t think it involved Elixir S and Tool Kit being in every meta build since the dawn of GW2 itself. I don’t think that vision involved being actively punished for focusing the Engineer

Also, you’ve seen it all? What? Do you really get exasperated when someone says that maybe invulnerability is a dumb mechanic? Get out.

Screwface.5296:

Ricky Rouse.1583:

As someone who has plenty of SPvP games on an Engineer, you are lying to yourself if you don’t know why people get mad at Engineers:

“Oh kitten I missed my combo, guess i’m in some trouble…

JUST KIDDING

ELIXIR S, HEALING TURRET, GEAR SHIELD, THROW ELIXIR S, TRAITED ELIXIR S, HEALING TURRET, GEAR SHIELD, ELIXIR S, THROW ELIXIR S, GEAR SHIELD, ELIXIR S, MIST FORM, GEAR SHIELD

XXXx2007epicengiexxxXXX: Outplayed"

Elixir S and Gear Shield need to be removed from the game. And before you say “ur just kitten” almost all my games in SPvP are on Engineer to the point where I can’t really play any other class. If you play Engineer only to cycle invulnerability while waiting for Healing Turret and hundred nades to cool down like a cheese salesman you should just go play Mesmer or Thief, I heard they have an opening on the “huge coward who think’s he’s good” position.

You aren’t “outplaying” anyone. You aren’t even playing the game. You’re playing the waiting game.

I’m not saying we don’t have some annoying abilities or even borderline OP ones, but so do other classes.

I mean, I log on with my necro and can jump right it the middle of the enemy team, activate death shroud, mix it up a bit, maybe even get a few kills and then disengage with plague corruption and my main hp is untouched…so that’s not OP?
The fact that you essentially have to beat Necros twice?

Or my Mesmer, stealth in, shatter, drop hp’s to half, 2 stealths and a teleport at my disposal to do it all over again.

All classes in this game have a little OP to them, some more than others.

I’m just saying when I play Mesmer or Necro I don’t get people wanting me to just quit the game and die of AIDs because I fail at life. All because I beat them on an engie lol.

Anyways, I thought maybe other engie’s have had similar experiences is all.

Well of course other classes have very good abilities. Guardian medi teleport into 10000 burn stacks.

It’s just that those abilities usually don’t involve becoming straight up invulnerable with a 16s cooldown block. It drives me crazy, and like I said, I play Engineer exclusively. It makes me ashamed when I want to try out HGH Flamethrower with elixir C and B and the first Engineer I run into is someone who colored their armor lime and is cycling invulnerability while he waits for his HT to come off cooldown.

I have to stop and say “Me and him are playing the same class”

As someone who has plenty of SPvP games on an Engineer, you are lying to yourself if you don’t know why people get mad at Engineers:

“Oh kitten I missed my combo, guess i’m in some trouble…

JUST KIDDING

ELIXIR S, HEALING TURRET, GEAR SHIELD, THROW ELIXIR S, TRAITED ELIXIR S, HEALING TURRET, GEAR SHIELD, ELIXIR S, THROW ELIXIR S, GEAR SHIELD, ELIXIR S, MIST FORM, GEAR SHIELD

XXXx2007epicengiexxxXXX: Outplayed"

Elixir S and Gear Shield need to be removed from the game. And before you say “ur just kitten” almost all my games in SPvP are on Engineer to the point where I can’t really play any other class. If you play Engineer only to cycle invulnerability while waiting for Healing Turret and hundred nades to cool down like a cheese salesman you should just go play Mesmer or Thief, I heard they have an opening on the “huge coward who think’s he’s good” position.

You aren’t “outplaying” anyone. You aren’t even playing the game. You’re playing the waiting game.

lorddarkflare.9186:

Daralii.8940:

Miltek.2104:

With recent changes to Dragon Hunter’s F1, Thief dodges and Ele’s Rebound, I regained faith in rework of function gyro.

10 days to launch, Anet HQ must be in fire right now ^^

I’m not getting my hopes up. Considering the levels of polish in BWE3 and the fact the only response to scrapper feedback was “Thanks, we’ll think about it” (just look at the druid response), it’s been made very clear where scrapper is on their priority list. Hell, I’d be surprised if hammer 1 gets particles before release.

One post does not a panic make.

Druid issues can be fixed with numbers. Function Gyro cannot.

Pessimism is warranted, but this board is getting downright cynical.

Problem being that instead of fixing the issues now, since they wasted time, effort, and resources on MORE AI (WAHOO) now we have to wait a year or two before they finally cave in and admit it was a horrible mistake and change/fix it (just like how they eventually came to admit Scarlet was a mistake.)

Or maybe they will just never fix it and leave it as another category of dead skills like Turrets. Or even better: Maybe instead of being bad it’s just going to be annoying, passive, bunker-type “SIT ON THIS POINT ALL GAME AND DONT MOVE” gameplay just like the good turrets were.

It’s almost like as if it’s just a series of poorly designed skills that will never be truly balanced and will have to rely on cheese because it’s AI.

But hey, apparently we were supposed to get drones at launch and that got delayed because someone wanted a flamethrower, so I guess their argument will be “Well you were going to get it sooner or later anyways so take your medicine”

Shaogin.2679:

No thanks, I actually like turrets and prefer Anet just fixes them. And I have no desire for Gyros to be invulnerable. Gyros just need some adjusting and they will be pretty great to use.

Except if we’ve learned ANYTHING from turrets its that the only time they are useful in PvP (they will never be useful in PvE until they actually scale with something other than condi damage) is when they are just balls of stats that can’t die and support sitting on the same point the entire game.

In other words, they’re only good when they’re cheesy.

CHS.5160:

mai trin is a good example of dungeon design because her encounter is pretty much the only one in gw2 which does not simply require hitting her until she falls over.

you need to understand her mechanic in order to have any chance at defeating her, and this is what this game needs more of, not a stun mechanic that’s aimed at making CC builds viable.
I understand that gw2 is not exactly ripe or WoW-like raid mechanics, but this game’s should-be most difficult encounters are outshined by the “raids” in godforsaken WARFRAME

and that’s a very sad statement to make.

Mai Trin is not good design.

“Her mechanics” my kitten , there are ways to make a boss hard without gating them behind “U CANT HIT ME U CANT HIT ME NA NA NA NA NA NAAAA”

They are for different things entirely.

Alchemy is going to be universally better for boons and whatnot, and has more consistent condition cleansing. (Cleansing Synergy is never going to be usable on a 10s ICD unless we are counting AMR which got gutted. At most you’re going to see it on the 15s CD of a picked-up Healing Turret.)

Inventions is a much more niche trait tree, with a focus on regeneration spam and passively inhibiting damage or control effects through means of automated bomb dispenser and mecha legs. Also has bunker down which is a really good trait if you can manage to fit it into a build.

Tor.1365:

Yep, its all in the coefficients as to whether healing power is worth it.

Take a look at various skills here : https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing

Notice that most engineer skills are only 0.2 coefficient, elixir gun super elixir being one of the highest at 0.4.

Compare this with elementalist or guardian: Geyser is 0.75, Cleansing Wave is 1.0, and the final Guard mace chain hit is 1.4. And these are just regular weapon skills, with no special utilities or traits required.

Unless we start seeing skills with coefficients above 0.5 its probably never going to be worth running main stat healing power on an engineer.

Super Elixir’s healing power scaling is .5 on the initial blast (it ticks instantly) and 1.3 over the entire duration with HGH. If you’re going to count total scaling on Geyser, you should count total scaling on all other healing abilities.

Also lol’d hard at the 1.4 on guardian’s mace. That’s its POWER scaling for the DAMAGE. It’s healing power scaling is .18

Furthermore, Cleansing Burst is .5, with an additional .2 on the blast. And Mortar Shell has a healing power scaling of .2, even completely untraited that’s .8 scaling on a 4s heal. And it goes up immensely if you get both HGH and siege rounds.

I think it would be amazing if the heals all operated like Med Pack Drop does. Each ability on the med kit lasts 15 or so seconds and has a cooldown of 20-30 seconds, but drops 3-4 in a crate drop.

According to Irenio the “counterplay” to druid crippling and dazing everything in an AoE is, in his own words, to “just get out of there”, so really counterplay means the exact same thing Riot Games uses it for: Whatever we want to be easily wrecked and made useless by even the tiniest amount of effort on your opponents part.

Sagramor.7395:

So sorta like the profession art for the Engineer? I’m for it. Dude looks like he has exactly what you’re describing.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/engineer/

We’ll probably get it sometime around when Warriors get 2-handed axes as pictured in their profession art.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/warrior/

That isn’t a shoulder cannon. His turrets are behind him so you don’t see the body of them, just the barrels.

Killyox.3950:

Whole spec seems like an alpha version of something else. It’s like they made hammer and totally didn’t think other skills through.

Why the hell do we have so many AI skills already?

WHOSE idea it was to give us Gyros when we already had turrets and these turrets are BAD. It’s like “guys I got an idea! Turrets are bad so lets make more AI skills so engies can have even more BAD things and problematic AI because they clearly don;t have enough of it.”

Everything about scrapper disappointed me except hammer. The worst designed elite spec out of all

Because that’s exactly what they thought. That’s exactly what Scrapper is:

Arenanet tried to make a second pass at balancing turrets, this time with a 50 dollar price tag.

Krysard.1364:

Arantheal.7396:

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

Add stealth gyro, elixir S , elixir B, wrench and you have one unkillable engi in any pvp setting.

I don’t know, but my l2p-sense starts tingling whenever someone uses the term “unkillable” on something he wants to nerf…

So it seems someone bunkered up against power dmg…
Good on him. Can you tell me why you haven’t tried to kill him with condis?

Adaptative Armor+Hoelbrak+Celestial gear+Alchemy are more than enough in order to tank conditions, while easily stacking 25 stacks of might in order to do awesome damage :p

Mind telling me how you are getting 25 stacks of might without HGH?

I’ll wait.

lorddarkflare.9186:

Ricky Rouse.1583:

lorddarkflare.9186:

Engie DPS rotations do not look like that. At all.

Have you ever seen “The Rotation” for burn Engineer that spans 45+ skills?

It is exactly that, down to what I said: Shrapnel, Barrage, Blowtorch, Poison Darts, Fire Bomb, Concussion bomb, ect ect ect with grenade auto attacks in between. It is using high damage skills off cooldown with no thought involved. Blowtorch shows up like 4 times in the rotation because it’s literally just using them as they come up off cooldown.

Also, i’m talking about PvE, not PvP.

Look at what you originally posted and what you just said now.

That rotation at most requires you use two skills from one kit back to back. It is pretty involved, requires good knowledge of cooldowns and most importantly: does significantly less damage if you cannot keep up with it. The power rotation is more forgiving in this regard.

Now, after you have mastered it, it is certainly ‘mindless’ but nowhere near as much as just auto attacking.

And by the way, unless Hammer AA somehow manages to severely outclass skills 2 – 5 on every kit, optimal DPS will STILL require long rotations that at most use hammer AA like like it does grenade AA.

The point is this: Kits would need a massive nerf or Hammer AA severely overpowered (to the point of outclassing all weapons and kits) for kitless builds to be optimal. At least in PvE.

I hate to break it to you, but cooldowns are not hard to keep up with. You’re making it sounds complicated when it isn’t even remotely complicated. In fact, it isn’t complicated at all, it’s as basic as you can get.

And yes, it is mindless. Pressing a button because it is off cooldown and ONLY because it is off cooldown is mindless no matter how far you delude yourself to think otherwise. If you still think “press button when cooldown = 0” and “hard to keep up with” is any more complicated then doing something out of muscle memory and requires “mastery” (Its absolutely laughable to call it mastery by the way) then the argument will really proceed no further then where it is now.

lorddarkflare.9186:

Engie DPS rotations do not look like that. At all.

Have you ever seen “The Rotation” for burn Engineer that spans 45+ skills?

It is exactly that, down to what I said: Shrapnel, Barrage, Blowtorch, Poison Darts, Fire Bomb, Concussion bomb, ect ect ect with grenade auto attacks in between. It is using high damage skills off cooldown with no thought involved. Blowtorch shows up like 4 times in the rotation because it’s literally just using them as they come up off cooldown.

Also, i’m talking about PvE, not PvP.

Rhomulos.2089:

The real question here is; Why would you need to just be auto-attacking with the hammer instead of doing other things? Are you really just asking for an option to be lazier but still get good results?

In PVE, hammer is fine. Doesn’t need AA damage. Really, there’s much better skills to be using than a slightly beefier weapon auto even if it’s more work.

In PVP, the hammer needs a downside. Right now it’s the weak auto and the slightly exploitable gaps in evades on hammer 3. If the auto was stronger, we’d have some issues with balance and lesser skilled played would have way too much reward for simply auto-attacking.

Adamantium.3682:

I’ll try to address something that doesn’t seem to have a lot of emotion wrapped up in it instead. Are you guys sure you’re not getting normal block functionality from Shock Shield? Every time I have used it it blocks like any other block even after the skill is over for a second or so. I even tried it again just to make sure and it is definitely working at any range in any direction for me. I pulled one of the profession NPCs in the HotM (Engineer specifically) and immediately turned around and ran ~400 range away then used the block skill. I blocked the next two attacks.

The block’s up-time doesn’t match it’s animation is the issue, the first half of the channel seems to leave you open, while you’re blocking for a bit after the channel ends.

Lazier?

Engineer players have this terrible complex going on right now: I like to call it Starcraft Envy.

For some reason we’ve come to the conclusion that if we press a lot of buttons really fast that we are suuuuper SUUUUUPER skilled! Mom get the camera! I just pressed Blowtorch, Shrapnel Grenades, Incendiary Ammo, Fire Bomb, Big Ol’ Bomb, Grenade Barrage, Rifle Jump, Blunderbuss, Shrapnel Grenades, Fire Bomb and and and-

Oh wait.

Let’s take a look at those skills again, johnny.

Would you look at that!

They all do the EXACT SAME THING : deal damage.

When you start just using cooldowns on this kit and that kit and this kit and that kit without even putting a second thought into it other than “Well golly gee I need more damage” then its not skilled. It’s just more keystrokes, which I guess can equate to skill if you’re a trying to teach a dog or a monkey to play video games.

The problem herein lies that skills need to be less “PRESS THIS FOR EPIC DAMAGE DUDE” and more “If X situation, press Blowtorch”. That needs to be the case, we can’t just have a million abilities that all basically say “Well do some damage”, auto attacks and maybe an additional ability on a weapon should be used for damage, the others should all be situational or reactionary. That would make it a measure of skill. But until that happens (it won’t), Engineer will never be “complicated” because you’re pressing buttons, bud.

Take a look at Elixir Gun, for example. THAT is a healthy weapon kit design, if you deal condition damage. The #2 skill is a cripple that you can use off cooldown, but the #3 actually has some thought attached to it: I can use it to apply vuln and poison or cleanse some conditions. I can use Acid Bomb as a finisher, an escape, or to deal damage. I can use #5 to provide some constant healing, or cleanse a condition. THIS weapon is a prime example of what a kit should be. Grenades are a prime example of what they shouldn’t: “Press 1 to throw nades to deal damage, press 2 to throw nades to deal damage, press 3 to throw nades to deal damage, press 4 to throw nades to deal damage, press 5 to throw nades to deal damage.”

There is nothing wrong with requesting more damage on an auto attack. There is nothing wrong in using an auto attack to deal damage. I would argue that it is worse, MUCH worse, when auto attacks become irrelevant and suddenly skills just become auto attacks 2.0. Because then any hope for variety just goes out the window.

This is why I would rather have the hammer use the auto to stack some damage before using the whirl to reflect something (which it currently sucks at doing) the 3 to close the gap (which is currently unreliable) or the 4 to block some damage (which is also currently unreliable). I would much rather have this be the case than “PRESS ALL THE BUTTONS ONCE THEN SWAP TO A GRENADES LADDIE WOOHOO”

tl;dr
There is no difference, fundementally, thematically, mechanically, or otherwise between mashing 1 to deal damage, and mashing 2,3,4,5 —--> next kit, 2,3,4,5 to deal damage. It is the same thing, down to the function and playstyle.

The real problem with HT is the cooldown. 6.5k heal with regen and some cleansing isn’t bad until you see that it’s on a 20 second cooldown.

Just double turret cooldowns, and make Advanced Turrets reduce turret cooldowns by 50%. Healing Turret’s CD, untraited, would be 40s (30s on a pickup) but back to 20s with the trait.

Adamantium.3682:

Really? I feel like you’re just being argumentative.

I didn’t decide it was a defensive weapon. It’s not me trying to make it a defensive weapon. It is a defensive weapon. Irenio said as much on the stream and anyone who has had 30 seconds to use it can see that pretty easily.

Guardian hammer is not a good comparison. It does not have similar auto attack timing, in fact it might be as dissimilar as you can get. It takes nearly kitten to complete the Guardian AA chain 10 times compared to just about 32s for the Scrapper. I certainly hope it would do more damage because it takes almost 50% longer to complete even including the nasty aftercast hammer is currently suffering from.

Irenio may have intended it for it to be a defensive weapon but that isn’t the case.

Did you really, REALLY, believe, even for a second, that a 1s reflect and a 1.75 second short range front-only block makes this weapon “defensive”? Have you actually played with the hammer? It’s a beatdown offensive stun weapon that actually functions best in a burst build, not a defensive build.

Have you actually tried using the #4 as a block? It’s horrendously bad for that purpose. You might as well just look at the block as a caveat and just use it to apply vuln. The whirl is only marginally useful, it will never ever stop you from getting reamed in the bum by a ranger from 1,500 distance as you attempt to close the gap, you’ll just reflect maybe 3-4 arrows out of a rapid fire and then eat the rest.

I have no idea what Irenio thought would make the hammer, or the scrapper for that matter, defensive. Was it Adaptive Armor? Yeah, that’s great, but i’ve got expert examination and a stealth gyro that make me into a better burst killer than most thieves or mesmers.

I mean, take a look at the Inventions tree and compare it to Scrapper.

Every trait in Inventions is dedicated to being tanky.

The first two minor traits in Scrapper is dedicated to stomping in PvP

There is much more evidence to support the claim that Hammer is offensive than defensive. And spouting some opinions about how good your “tank” build that heals less than a medic engie, deals less damage than a soldier rifle, and has the same survivability as both is going to change that. So please, don’t talk about how everyone hates the hammer because they expected it to be something else. If anything, the hammer is the exact opposite as what it was advertised as.

The problem isn’t the damage. The problem is the aftercast. If the whole combo actually took 1.5 seconds to execute it would be a very good combo. The problem is it takes closer to about 2.1 or more to execute because of the godawful aftercast.

If you want to see it for yourself, go into PvP and start hitting a golem, then chug Elixir U and be amazed at how pronounced the kitten aftercast is.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASnUUBNehtdB2UBEqiFSjiupr6u+r0OtWbMAaunD-TJRBABxXGAgLAwDPAgm2fAA

Here’s how the build works:

Stealth, stick near this dumb little crapper because he was made with a few screws missing and needs help to catch up to you.

Close the distance between you and your target. They will know you are coming, but as long as they don’t know at what point exactly you start the beatdown, it makes no difference. If they can’t see the animation, they are dead.

Open with Thunderclap —-> F2 – F4 —--> Rocket Charge.

This combo gets them fully stacked on vuln, and very hard to live through. If they are a squishier class, they will die if they can’t hit an invuln in time. If they are a heavier class, they will be on the brink of death, if not dead. If they are still standing, try to make use of either your ram, whirl or block to finish them.

I find it hilarious how the most effective build I found that involves using the Scrapper traitline is not a tanky build, but basically an assassin. With a giant hammer.

Billionaire.5607:

radovan.8624:

Sneak gyro is terrible ;(

No it is not.

If anything actually hits it, it runs off to “attack” the assailant.

Barring that, it is so slow that you need to stop and wait every few seconds for it to catch up unless you want to be destealthed.

And then after that, you need to worry about its garbage health pool.

But yeah.

“Not it isn’t.”

Manuhell.2759:

Guess we could sum up most of the problems with “AI is dumb and unreliable”.
Coincidentally, that’s also one of the reasons why people didn’t want new AI-based utilities to start with.
Apart from that, gyros are far too fragile right now, at least in pve. And slow, painfully slow.

Hammer is mostly fine, i guess. Apart from the autoattack, that’s quite slow for the damage and effect it does. And sure, rocket charge may be clunky at times, as written by others.

Hammer really just needs the block to not be so short ranged on the offensive side and that GOD AWFUL aftercast removed

I mean, drink an Elixir U and then beat down a golem. See how slow it still is? That’s the aftercast at work.

ROFL

Alright, just figured it out.

You know how Impact Savant says “Outgoing/Incoming Stuns” and everyone thought “Stuns” encompassed Dazes as well?

It doesn’t.

Slot Battering Ram. Look at the toolbelt. Unaffected by Impact Savant.

It literally only affects stuns.

Engineer has 2 stuns. Supply Crate and Hammer 5.

This GM minor affects two skills total.

What. A. Joke.

EdwinLi.1284:

Ricky Rouse.1583:

The hammer also has problems. Like the block only blocking attacks directly in front of you, unlike gear shield.

It was explained in the demenstration of Scrapper skills.

4th Hammer skill only block front attacks is mostly due to the skill being a offensive/defensive ability compared to the Shield which is more defensive. It not only blocks attacks in front but any enemy near you in the front will take damage.

Have you actually used it? It’s incredibly ineffective. You have to stick on top of the enemy, and its a channel so its not like you can CC them before hand.

If they strafe, dead skill.

If they move a little to the side of you and keep rotating, dead skill.

If they just back up, dead skill.

It has a range of 170 for gods sake. This isn’t some #2 skill that has a 5-10s cooldown either, its a TWENTY SECOND COOLDOWN

Also I don’t know if this is intentional or the tooltip just isn’t updating, but impact savant doesn’t actually affect gyro detonations

Edit: Just checked it on golems, gyro detonation is not in any way shape or form being affected by impact savant.

Gyros are spending more time running around rocks then actually attacking targets.

Function Gyro is slow, it has absolutely NO HEALTH (Its function as a rez is utterly worthless in PvP, it would die instantly to even simply a few auto attacks, I had far better results just using S and doing it myself, even in the case of a stomp, a player could attack it from downed state and nearly murder it, especially considering how LONG it takes for it to stomp (4-5s rather than 2). A ranger with his pet could destroy it even faster.

To put the cherry on top, it occasionally bugged out and just ran past its target, then turning around, and running back to stomp for the long duration.

The hammer also has problems. Like the block only blocking attacks directly in front of you, unlike gear shield. Or how the daze not stopping the enemies meant they could just move a little in a direction and dodge the leap. Or how the leap bugs out and sends you flying in the wrong direction. It also feels far too slow, the auto attacks are the clunkiest attacks i’ve ever seen, and they deal ever so slightly more damage than a hip shot for how unbelievably slow they are. The 5 skill, however, is very nice. The lightning field is useless, but the stun and damage is decent enough. (There is a VERY noticeable aftercast on every single attack in the AA chain, it must be like .2 or so seconds because my god does it kitten me off)

Why doesn’t the leap just go forward? Whats with this utterly annoying zig-zag pattern? Are you serious?

Furthermore, the only use I got out of ANY gyro was the Shredder on a burning field. The bulwark instantly died, as expected, even in PvE, let alone PvP. They didn’t even have to try, cleaving alone spelled its death.

Stealth Gyro would randomly stealth and unstealth me for no reason, like it just wasn’t targeting me.

Blast Gyro was ESPECIALLY weird. It either instantly blows up on a target that isn’t the marked one, or it decides to wait for a few seconds at its target before blowing up. It also deals no damage, I might as well slot throw mine.

Also there are WAY too few stuns available to the Engineer for Impact Savant and the benefits are too low. Most of our CC is knockbacks unless we take Final Salvo, which is a HORRENDOUSLY undertuned skill. Supply Crate is the best contender with Impact Savant, gaining a whopping .5s in its stun.

Rapid Regeneration doesn’t scale with healing power.

I’m already incredibly disappointed. All the builds i’ve come up with for Scrapper use either one or no gyros, and the hammer feels slower and clunkier than the Reaper GS.

I’ve been playing with it for 45 minutes and already I am bored with this spec.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Adamantium.3682:

That might be his point. There’s no inherent benefit to taking Scrapper because the unique mechanic is bland and rarely useful.

Every other elite spec grants you something useful even if you don’t take the weapon or utilities. An extra dodge, different virtues, new shroud, new boons, etc.

Gyros are going to give us a safe stomp on a 30 second cooldown if traited for it while simultaneously giving us either a reflect, a poison field, a stealth reveal, or a daze in the tool belt. These are all useful to prevent the other team from ressing. The blast gyro in particular is interesting, because you’ll be able to safe stomp with it while having it AoE knockback opponents 450 range. For perspective, Big Ol’ Bomb is only 400, and with a huge delay.

This is “rarely useful” to a PvE-only player, perhaps, but as a PvX player I think the gyros will be great. We no longer are forced into elixirs for safe stomps, but I think we’ll still find application for gyros in PvE. The blast gyro alone will probably shatter a defiance bar.

But let’s take your statement and imagine someone has zero interest in using them or the hammer. There’s still plenty the tree offers:

• Recovery Matrix gives 5 seconds of protection on heal.
• Mass Momentum gives might on stability (e.g., Juggernaut)
• Rapid Regeneration gives health on super speed/swiftness (e.g., Tool Kit + Streamlined Kits, or just SK in general)
• Impact Savant reduces stuns by 25%.
• Adaptive Armor reduces condition damage by 20% and stacks up to 500 additional toughness.
• Perfectly Weighted gives you stability when you evade even if you don’t use your hammer.

I think a lot of these things are very useful and fill a lot of gaps that Inventions and Alchemy fail to cover. Will Scrapper ultimately replace them? I doubt it, especially if you don’t utilize the best traits in the line. An elixir build will obviously favor Alchemy, and a gyro build will obviously favor Scrapper.

But there’s obviously nothing wrong with taking both, and if an engineer were to run the current HGH build with Adaptive Armor, they really wouldn’t find condition damage any longer to be much a threat.

Ricky Rouse.1583:

The problem is it’s only half true. If you take the Scrapper line you’re going to be using the hammer and at most 1 gyro.

Woodenpotatoes even said it in his video on the Scrapper:

“What a lot of Engineers are going to do is use the gyro toolbelt out of combat and swap to a more useful utility”

If that is the initial impression upon looking at an ability than we have a problem.

No disrespect to Wooden Potatoes, but I wouldn’t go to him for build advice. He’s great at lore videos and I loved a lot of his content during the living story seasons, but he is not a respected voice for engineer builds. I think there are better sources for that kind of information, several of whom have already provided their input in this thread.

morrolan.9608:

The traits do benefit other weapons and utilities. Chronomancer is similar in that shield won’t be required to use the spec effectively. This is why they are the elite specs with the 2 best set of traits.

I never said they didn’t.

The problem is that none of those traits help any build I can think of.

I mean think about it: We have Soldier Rifle and Cleric Engineer right now.

What do ANY of those traits do for either of those builds aside from a remote stomp? And don’t say “W-well boyo you can get even TANKIER with that one GM trait that is basically the only good trait in the entire line next to mass momentum” because Soldier Rifle and Cleric Medic are basically immortal as it stands, if you’re dying as either its probably because they coordinated a burst spike on you, at which point more toughness probably isn’t going to help because they were going to overkill you no matter what. It won’t help you in a 1 v 1, because you can’t die anyways, and it won’t help you in a 2 v 2, because you were immortal regardless.

I can see it helping in a 2 v 1 for soldier rifle (hammer) build, but I don’t know exactly how much. Even in full soldiers in gives you only about 200 more toughness than a warrior in soldiers.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Ardid.7203:

I believe most of us are worried because a Scrapper that choose to not use Hammer or Gyros still get good traits, but end stuck with a totally irrelevant spec mechanic.
Improving the utility Gyros is way less important than making a better “signature mechanic”, at least to me.

I don’t understand why someone would use the Scrapper trait line if they don’t intend to actually use the hammer or gyros. That’s like taking Explosives and not using grenades or bombs.

The problem is it’s only half true. If you take the Scrapper line you’re going to be using the hammer and at most 1 gyro.

Woodenpotatoes even said it in his video on the Scrapper:

“What a lot of Engineers are going to do is use the gyro toolbelt out of combat and swap to a more useful utility”

If that is the initial impression upon looking at an ability than we have a problem. Even someone who only had 40 minutes to throw together a build used only the whirling gyro and the stealth gyro, and I feel like he shoehorned the stealth gyro in over Supply Crate just to not make the elite spec seem entirely irrelevant

Also does anyone else feel that the stealth gyro is a complete thematic disconnect?

“You’re a rough and tumble melee basher who swings a hammer around”

“By the way here’s discount shadow refuge so you can be a sneaky not-thief”