Guild Wars 2

zaragoz.6351:

I see neither links to these builds, nor footage of spectacular gameplay, that makes me want to rethink the conclusions I’ve drawn about the kits in question. More or less you “claim” that you use these weapons effectively in a team setting. As I’ve posted before extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence to be taken seriously.

Btw mortar is nothing more than a kittentier version of what grenades were pre-patch.

Since you’re so desperate for links, here, try them yourself.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFAUlcThqrYBWwWLw6FL3FVYNFQZG4CWABgYB9D5AA-TJRBABR8AAivMAN7PAwFAAA

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQJAqalcThqrYBWwdLQ7FLsFV4SdRvG4HWiBg4GVFPBA-TpAMgA2lBA2fAA

zaragoz.6351:

Lol it cracks me up that you are trying to tell vee wee how to play engineer, considering he/she has played since released and most likely has more games that everyone in this thread combined.

Slot elixir C? are you kidding me dude? An extraordinarily long cooldown condition removal that only momentarily fixes the issue, and then makes you susceptible to corrupt boon, or boon rip. Engineer is basically forced to take 2 kits and a stunbreak to even come close to matching the damage other classes have on their weapon sets. So taking elixir C really is not an option.

BTW post up some links to these awesome flamethrower and EG builds your spouting off about. Better yet post up a video of you owning anyone good with them, or contributing to a team better than you can with a power oriented explosives build,. I’ve tried flamethrower, and EG. EG is a utility weapon, that is decent in a 1 on 1 fight or for fast map travel, cleansing teammates, or putting out downed pressure on downed players assuming your a power build. As for flamethrower I’ve never seen it be used legitimately in team play. I’m sure there is an engi out there that can, but usually when I see an engineer running flamethrower I’m thinking I have a free kill on my hands.

I’ve had this account since BWE 1 as well, and mainly played Engineer. Doesn’t make MY opinion any more or less valid, does it? Anyways…

That “Extraordinarily long cooldown” is 32 seconds, and its enough to save you in a fight, especially considering Warriors and Rangers slot abilities that have 2x the cooldown and only nullify issues for about 4-6 seconds. Turning a bar full of conditions into a bar full of boons is important, even if said boons don’t last very long. And its used as a full clear for when things get bad, which in this meta, most people frontload a load of conditions. From necromancers to venomshare to mesmers, people are applying a silly amount of conditions in short amounts of time. You need cleansing to save your life. The two you get off healing turret is going to get you absolutely blasted by most classes, including burn guards. The minute you cleanse 5 burn stacks they will apply 4 more, and by that point a gear shield won’t save you.

As for the boon ripping/corruption, if you can show me one necromancer actually running corruptions i’d love to see it, because they’ve all been complaining about how gutted and unusable corruptions are. I’ve seen none over the past few days. Or Arcane Thievery for that matter, I haven’t seen that either.

As for the video, I don’t have any recording software. If you really want i’ll get a bunch of screenshots of like a consecutive 10 ranked game sample and post it, but i’ll need a day to do it.

As for the whole damage argument, Flame Blast are great for pressure and group fights. And I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but the grenade pattern has gotten really really unreliable after the core rebalance. Like, really unreliable. Before you could make do with the slow projectiles and just predict accordingly, but now your own grenades are working against you. Because they are 900 range, and the arc is lower, they can freak out, go way too low, and stop dead at 450. They can spread more than 180 distance apart and nullify a 3 hit entirely. In full marauder I tried tossing nades at two downed necromancers and an ele rezzing. I probably could have spit on them to greater effect.

As for the builds, just trait Inventions/Alchemy/Fire Arms. Mecha Legs, Backpack Regenerator, Bunker Down, HGH, and then the rest is up to you. Screws with conditions and lets you survive and heal WHILE actually doing things instead of hiding behind a gear shield like a puss puss while your friends die around you.

PierPiero.9142:

I tried to play pistol pistol with firearm , inventions and tool ( for power wrench , lock on and perma vigor) with nades toolkit and elixir S , mortar , rabid amulet and balth runes and it seems to me quite viable . Instead i try hgh with pistol pistol and rabid having no control , with full elixirs and mortar, it seems to me really weak .

4 elixirs and pistol is the opposite issue of 4 kits. You need to find the proper balance, don’t go all in one way or the other and be surprised when you get destroyed by the exact thing you didn’t prepare for.

ellesee.8297:

I suppose another solution would be to keep the explosives as the Engineer’s power oriented kits and beef up the firearm kits to be viable condition weapons, although this route would require some serious overhauls on Anet’s part which, sadly, will probably never happen! For example the Bomb Kit would need some adjustments as it’s just awful in a power build! Traited Elixir Gun could maybe burn with its Acid Bomb and apply Torment with Elixir F! The Flamethrower is completely power oriented (and a terrible one at that) aside from its gimmicky burn toolbelt! You could change it so it applies more burning on the auto attack and its other skills! Again this route would require a lot of overhauls to the kits and Anet isn’t one for overhauls in a reasonable time frame!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

While I agree Explosives is pretty lackluster at the moment, almost every other kit is strong as hell right now.

First off, you’re insane if you think flamethrower should be a condition weapon.

You explicitly GIVE UP Napalm Specialist to spec into Juggernaut. And if you are using the FT without Juggeranut you’re not using it correctly as any other kit will fit your condition needs better. Elixir gun in combination with mortar is also very good if run a regeneration rabid build with focus on bleed/poison, it doesn’t need some unwarranted buffs to condition damage (Torment on elixir F? What?).

Also you need to run condition cleansing now. I know exactly the problem you are probably running into, and its that you are using too many kits for too many weapon abilities so you can output that sik sik damage and you completely forgot that as an engineer you can die without enough cleansing. You basically require elixir C or something similar until they nerf burning, and even then burning may still be enough of an annoyance to require heavy cleansing.

I know a lot of people like Engineer because you can slot OH MY GOD 3/4 MORE WEAPONS I CAN PLAY COOLDOWN WACK-A-MOLE AND HIDE BEHIND MY AWESOME GEAR SHIELD WHILE I WAIT FOR HT TO COME OFF COOLDOWN HARHARHAR but that isn’t viable anymore.

You’re going to rely on the traited elixir S and gear shield to keep you alive, both of which do not stop you from burning to death, and you are doing literally 0 nada zilch NOTHING during those two 3-4s durations. You are basically being a selfish prick and delaying a stomp by chickening out with I-Can’t-Believe-Its-Not-Shelter.

Try HGH Juggernaut if you want an FT build. Try Elixir Gun Mortar if you want a condition build that screws up other conditions. Its really good, my winrate with the two builds is amazing and I really couldn’t win games consistently before I started running them.

I am here to teach you about the new Flamethrower…if you haven’t heard of this build already. I don’t know about the Engineer underworld so I don’t know if this is already fotm OPOP.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFAUlcThqrYBWwWLw6FL3FVYNFQZG4CWABgYB9D5AA-TJRBABR8AAivMAN7PAwFAAA

Build is pretty straightforward. You abuse the juggernaut to be the juggernaut and knock people off points.

But there are a few tricks you can learn. First off, always, at the start of every match, as the gate opens, use Incendiary Ammo. The duration is 45 seconds. You want to get the most out of it, and that means expending your stacks when 20s is left on the cooldown timer, meaning you can use it again really soon. Even if full marauder, its 900-1000 damage burn stacks for using the whole thing, which is easy with Flame Jet.

Second, use Med Pack Drop as you are walking INTO a fight. Do not use it DURING THE FIGHT. You need to prepare yourself before the fight happens, not as it is happening.

Third, and most important, the stability stacks on the juggernaut? The intereval operates on its on clock. What does that mean? It means if are halfway through your stack of stability, swap to rifle, hit 4, and swap back, in 1.5 seconds you will receive the second stack. The clock operates independent of what kit you are actually using. Make sense?

So what do you do with this build? Simple. You throw around elixirs to grant might and chase people like the w+m1 pyro you are. If you notice the enemy has no stability, swap to rifle, use 4 and blunderbuss, Jump Shot swap back and use Flame Blast and keep using Flame Jet. If you need to reflect something or knock someone off a point, use Air Blast.

Use Throw Elixir H off cooldown. Use throw Elixir B not only for yourself, but if you see an ally with no stability attempting a stomp, or allies with no stability if a Rampaging warrior is running amok. Elixir C and Throw Elixir C are great, use the Throw if you only have 3 conditions on you (which is a more common number than you would think), Drink elixir C if you have a lot of conditions on you, usually courtesy of a necromancer.

Try it out and tell me what you think. I’ve had some pretty good success with it in the past few days.

I’ll be honest. When I booted up the game on patch day and saw “74 health per second” as the medblasters first skill I thought it was bugged.

Mortar kit dealing the same amount of damage as grenade auto attacks? Better gut it by 28% a day after patch release. don’t want the precious grenade kit not being #1.

Grenade Kit piercing and throwing 13 grenades at once? Better let that stew for a couple days, who knows what could happen!

Toolbox.9375:

Ricky Rouse.1583:

Whats that? Supply Crate can overcharge now? The overcharge includes a water field? It can then be detonated for a blast finisher?

A 3-second Water Field that activates on a delay, and a detonation Blast Finisher that then leaves you without the effects of your Elite Skill for the next 60-120 seconds. :P

Meanwhile, Mortar can be whipped out at any time, gives fairly-rapid guaranteed Projectile finishers (once it’s fixed, of course), provides a high uptime on Poison/area-denial and Weakness if you’re in a situation that calls for it, decent uptime on Chill/area-denial and Frost Aura if you’re in a situation that calls for it, 4-6 seconds of perpetual Blind in an area as well as condition removal or Retaliation if the situation calls for it, and some acceptable healing every once in a while with a pretty. Oh, as well as 1-2 Blast Finishers when needed.

Of course, Supply Crate gives 1-2 Blast Finishers, too, depending on whether you want to keep the turrets around or not. It also provides perpetual healing, damage, Burning, and Vulnerability in an area, as well as a small burst of healing, removal of two conditions, and a smokescreen when desired. All of that with a Stun upon its initial placement, as well as a very nice bunch of medkits via its toolbelt ability, with the overall tradeoff being that it all becomes unavailable for a relatively long period of time after it’s used.

Is Mortar better than Supply Crate? Certainly not. Is Supply Crate better than Mortar? Again, certainly not. They each have their uses, and it’s up to the Engineer to determine which one better suits their needs, and to use each to their fullest potential. Just because they each share a few of their many functions with each other doesn’t mean one makes the other obsolete, even if a couple of those shared functions are better on one or the other. :P

I’m laughing at the fact you think the poison field is area denial. Its two seconds of poison, and its the ONLY damaging condition on the entire kit. It isn’t a condition weapon, its a power weapon, and without condition damage poison deals like 30 damage per second. The chill is decent, but is very short lived. The other thing you are wonderfully forgetting to mention is that when the duration of a condition is in the gutter, it also means that it will not benefit as well from condition duration, making it double useless for condition builds. You never mention “1 second chill field for 6 seconds” you just say “chill area denial!” because it sounds less terrible. And area retaliation? Blasting a light field is a joke for a whopping FOUR SECONDS of it, and the blind off phosphorous shell is worse than the ones off both Grenade Kit and Bomb Kit, in AoE and duration.

The healing field is the only one worth using, and it isn’t enough. I’m not going to slot Mortar Kit over God Crate for 6 seconds of heal when I could just use my medical crate or overcharge the healing turret in supply crate for similar results without gimping myself with a now useless elite.

But yes, IF the projectile finisher was actually working it would be okay for spamming a bit more chill on enemies. No, there is still no reason to take it over Supply Crate. And thats why i’m upset.

People defending this kind of nerf are supporting Arenanet killing build diversity. They want us all to go back to Supply Crate on every kitten build for the next 3 years.

“How many classes can sustain dps while having to dodge every 1/2 second due to mortar’s rate of fire”

All of them, because they aren’t dodging. They’re walking out of the kitten circle. Don’t try to convince me otherwise because you’re just blind if you think its hard to avoid the massive, slow projectile coming at you.

Toolbox.9375:

S’long as that Projectile Finisher attribute gets set up to actually trigger in its AoE, I really won’t mind. :P Mortar has tremendous utility with its assortment of Fields and the one Finisher, and that vast selection of tricks has always been my favorite part of Engineer. The loss of damage hurts, but we have plenty of crazy stuff to make up for it.

Crazy stuff? Ah, surely you mean the water field and combo finisher. Not like Supply Crate has that.

Whats that? Supply Crate can overcharge now? The overcharge includes a water field? It can then be detonated for a blast finisher?

Well at least we get 5s of frost armor on a 40s cooldown and a 2s poison field. That is obviously worth the elite slot.

Kodama.6453:

Ricky Rouse.1583:

Oh they did an EXCELLENT job conveying that by making it heal for a whopping 75 health per second and have throwables that will miss 99.99% of the time.

And about the toolbelt reduction: Bandage self doesn’t count as an toolbelt skill anymore for the new trait system. It counts as an heal skill like A.E.D., HT or Elixir H. It’s triggering AMR now. And I think that was the right decision, because it acts that way.

They could have swapped the places of the kit and bandage self, so bandage self is on the heal skill place and the kit swap on the toolbelt. That’s the situation we are having now. But they didn’t because they didn’t want to confuse us more as required, I guess.

Also love how bandage self isn’t affected by the toolbelt CD reduction of the Tools line. Really you can tell they wanted us to use this as a party heal over Healing Turret.

Even if it isn’t much a difference, but the AA is healing more than 75 per second, the tooltip is wrong because it ticks 3 times in one channel for the 75 heal. And it heals more for each boon on your mate.

The throwable bandages are hard to use, that’s right and there are many bugs out there to fix, but that doesn’t mean they are doing something wrong with the concept of Med-Kit. Give them time to improve it.

Even if that is the case, it has to compete with the instant 4k 2 condition cleanse AoE heal of the healing turret. If they wanted us to use this over it, they failed miserably.

Kodama.6453:

Yamsandjams.3267:

Rainmaker.7594:

•ground targeted without having to trait it

This is actually not a pro, it’s a con.

There’s a reason no one ever ran packaged stimulants, and it’s not because tossable bandages was so overpowered that engineers deliberately didn’t run it to give everyone else a fair chance.

It was because having them as ground targeted abilities made it very inconvenient to heal yourself with them, especially while you were on the move (although it was also because few people actually ran the med kit).

Anet is trying to tell you something doing this. Med-Kit was NEVER meant to be a healing machine for yourself, its whole concept is about supporting your team by healing (and now: removing the condition your mate is struggling the most). It is shown really clear by our new Med-Kit AA, it is just healing our team members, not us!

Oh they did an EXCELLENT job conveying that by making it heal for a whopping 75 health per second and have throwables that will miss 99.99% of the time.

Also love how bandage self isn’t affected by the toolbelt CD reduction of the Tools line. Really you can tell they wanted us to use this as a party heal over Healing Turret.

Susulemon.3204:

It’s a big deal because it already kills a bunch of builds, it does not matter what you think about burning.

It’s also a balancing move to save other kits because it was too easy to build around only using the mortar kit and still do decent damage, something they want to discourage.

Even using that as a justification, the damage off the first skill was the ONLY reason.

The combo finisher on the auto doesn’t work. The poison is weak. The chill is short lived. A blind that the grenade (didn’t see that coming) does better and an elixir field that is, admittedly, good, but not enough at a 30s cooldown.

“But the blast finisher toolbelt!” you say. Sure, but I could also grab Supply Crate and get a 2s stun AND a blast finisher that will actually hit things as it doesn’t have a massive laser telegraph. It will also give me some useful turrets that I can now overcharge and detonate.

The ludicrous damage of burning doesn’t excuse some fool at Anet gutting the first decent explosives weapon in 3 years that we’ve seen have at least ONE reason to use over grenades.

But yeah I see absolutely no issue with my mortar launcher essentially being a 10% stronger rifle that will miss competent players 80% of the time unless they are immobilized and chilled.

But yeah, lets just ignore the elephant in the room that is burning damage and give a swift kick in the balls to mortar. Because we can.

I honestly feel like refunding my HoT purchase because of this joke.

“JON”
“What is it, Izzy”
“PEOPLE AREN’T USING GRENADES 24/7, WE GOTTA DO SOMETHING”
“Mein Gott, nerf the mortar launcher asap, I want that garbage nerfed into the ground and don’t come back until Grenades are the only viable option again”
“RIGHT AWAY SIR”

With no real consistency, it seems like using the new Gadgeteer trait can actually cause you to use an ability twice. I’ve had two stacks of A.E.D., used Personal Battering Ram twice, and even Utility Goggles has been used twice. I still don’t know what causes it.

If you aren’t getting 3.5k damage minimum I don’t think you are building properly.

P.S: Superior Sigil of Battle is your greatest ally

FiftyTwoBears.5482:

I want a Mine Kit.

Make the auto attack the Toolbelt skill, where you can Stack about 10 layers of mines around you.

and other mines are like an Electrical Fence trap when people walk into them, or more blockbacks

possibly Boon removals, and stuns and junk. I think everything could be some kind of knockback or stuns, and it would be justified cause you literally need people to walk into them, so it’s not to overpowered really.

Mine did have its own kit back in the first Beta Weekend Event.

It was removed because it was literally the same ability 5 times, and it wasn’t like the current mine kit where it removed a boon and knocked back.

You could try a militant look instead.

Forestnator.6298:

Yes it’s true. Only way to play pistols on engineer is condition damage.

With a two second bleed on your bread and butter skill that you can stack to about 4-5 before it expires?

I’d rather not.

Immortal.3647:

i found it ! the theme from lornars battle inside the norn fractal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWISBwm9WPA&feature=share&list=PLD78AC8B21CEA93EF

its not on the official ost though, i wonder where that youtube person has all the tracks from.

Awesome, thank you very much for finding these.

The ones i’m referring to are

1. The one which plays during the Legendary Dredge Powersuit fight in the underground fractal.

2. The one which plays during the Son of Svanir Shaman/Lornar fight at the end of the ice fractal.

Does anyone know the name of these songs, or where I can find them?

Oxstar.7643:

Wow this made me rofl
Engineesr are insanely useful and is anything but worthless in a fight, and I have a lot of rearend-kicking behind me in both PvE and PvP to prove it.
I’m sorry, but whoever called Engineer “Worthless” is a blockhead with no intelligence whatsoever. I don’t even know where to being.
Outstanding aoe healing.
Creates free retaliation combo fields.
Aoe slows and bleeds.
15-20 secs of immobilize.
Can aoe might a team.
Smoke screens and aoe confusion.
The list goes on. And anybody who says that dps is the most important factor in endgame is HOPELESSLY stuck in WoW mentality and should uninstall this game.
I don’t care if it takes 5 or 10 mins to down a boss so long as it dies.
And with no heals and just squishy players you will most likely die.

“Outstanding AoE healing”

that was pathetic and got nerfed.

“Creates free retaliation combo fields”

Elemenatlist has more blast finishers.

“AoE slows and bleeds”

like what? Box of Nails? That terrible ability that the Thief gets to use on dodge instead of wasting a second to cast?

“15-20 secs of immobilize”

With what? Net turret’s toolbelt, Net turret, net shot? and why should a class have to hold another class in place for 15-20 seconds just to be able to attack without getting kittensmacked?

“Can AoE might a team”

Elementalist would REALLY like a word with you about AoE Might. Shout warriors too.

“Smoke Screens and AoE confusion”

You mean the nerfed Smoke bomb? You mean Concussion bomb? You mean the skills that actually require you to go into MELEE RANGE (when the bomb kit only really works with a glass cannon build?)

You seem to be stuck on the assumption Engineers want DPS when in fact they just want to do something that another class can do 4x as good. I dont want to do everything but have to do it at 10% the efficiency. Thats just kittening stupid

Coltz.5617:

I agree that we pay enough for versatility but I also agree on the 30% grenade reduction. I rather engineers to be a lot more reliable and useable for having to pay the price of 30% dmg reduction to grenades ( one of our main skills to use ).

I dont mind the damage reduction.

I do mind that they nerfed the only viable kit we had without making the others good first.

I never used Grenades. I used Med Kit/Bomb Kit/Tool kit.

Its still ridiculous that they would nerf it. Because that would imply they think Engineer was in a position to be nerfed in a way shape or form. Which is absolutely 110% kittening STUPID.

“durr durr durr 30% chance to cause a small AoE flame burst better reduce damage by 30% durr durr”

In Public Relations speak:

The Engineer is a highly versatile class. While it doesn’t have the long range capabilities of the Ranger, or the melee capabilities of the Warrior or Guardian, they are comfortable at medium ranges in most fights. They have a lot of control, and use their boons to keep themselves (and allies) alive in a fight. They can use different kits based on the situation, but this extreme versatility comes at a cost in damage on their main hand weapons.

In non-public relations speak:

We want you to do what everyone else can at 10% the efficiency rate.

Bye.

DreamOfACure.4382:

Ricky Rouse.1583:

DreamOfACure.4382:

Too bad that ANet believes Grenades deserve more damage because of their projectile speed and ground-targeting. (How else do we explain why no more nerfs for hades / no solid damage buffs for other kits?)

I think the main problem is they can be thrown anywhere within their range.
Even conceptually, grenades aren’t something you throw near yourself. They should place a risk-factor to throw grenades within 500 distance of yourself, or put a minimum range.

That way, it would stop overshadowing Bomb and Flamethrower kit for melee-ranged damage. Instead, they would compliment each other.

The only reason the Grenade kit overshadows the Flamethrower kit is because the flamethrower deals pitiful damage.

Grenades DONT need a nerf, every other aspect of the engineer needs a buff. Although this is starting to stray from the topic.

Except that Flamethrower doesn’t deal pitiful damage. It’s 2-skill just has poor targeting and it’s built to be a closer-ranged front-line weapon.

The grenades overshadow them because they work as EITHER backline or frontline when their damage is solely scaled for long-ranged assaults.

You’re only comparing the direct damage numbers and not taking the conceptual designs into account.

While the FT and other kits may need a bit more damage:
What’s really needed is a few mechanical tune-ups and adjustment to grenades so they don’t monopolize viability.

Misery.9825:

Sorry but that’s not a very good idea. If we basically nuke ourselves for attacking melee (within melee range) with our grenades, it’s a death sentence to even go into battle. If a player runs two kits then he/she is susceptible to conditions (if no elixir C) or most melee (without elixir S). Moreover, if the player, for some ludicrous reason, decides to run full kits, there is absolutely no viable escape left. Grenades are fine as is; don’t touch them

Your claims are completely ignorant of Greande kits’ status among Engineers.

Nuking self? That’s the point, to stop grenades from being used in close range EVER.
- Your objection: Moot.
- AND you ignore my other suggestion – To limit the minimum range of grenades, so they can’t be used for melee without putting engineers at risk.

Susceptible to CC? There are PLENTY of Engineers who run multiple kits and have work-arounds to the lack of condition-removers from utilities.
- Your objection: Neglectful of other Engineers.

Grenades are not fine. Damage-wise, maybe. Mechanical, NO.
- ANet nerfed their projectile speed, but it didn’t change the fact that bomb and flamethrower kit are inferior to it when it comes to close-range damage.

- And they are not inferior because they’re below average. They are inferior because Grenades are scaled up to match standard weapons, despite also being a kit, because they have projectile travel-time, and yet are allowed to be used like a melee weapon.

Because of the above point, Grenades will always stand on top. Whether or not you use them does not stop that fact from looming over other players’ heads.

Excuse me? NOT pitiful damage? I can deal 2.3k assuming i get 7-8 crits out of the 10 attacks.

In the time it takes to do that, i can drop 2-3 bombs and deal 3k damage. 3k. Just by dropping a few bombs here and there, and hell, bombs even HIT the enemy instead of missing when the enemy moves two feet to the left. Or i could shoot my rifle a few times and get 1.9k crits as opposed to 2.3k without having to wait 2+ seconds. The problem is: Too much time to do the damage with too little of a payoff, especially when the kit is completely based on mid-range damage.

Also, Smoke vent is kitten but thats another story.

And grenades dont need a nerf for the love of god. Really. Do we really want Engineers to start getting kicked because every other class will be able to contribute to the party more than an Engineer can?

DreamOfACure.4382:

Ricky Rouse.1583:

NickDollahZ.5348:

sigil of strength + grenade kit. People are really never gonna leave grenade kit now if we get stats + sigil. I guess they could always fiddle with the weapon damage to keep it in line. Either way looking forward to that.

By “Fiddle with the damage” i really hope you mean buff all the other kits and weapons so that they are on the level of grenade kit.

Too bad that ANet believes Grenades deserve more damage because of their projectile speed and ground-targeting. (How else do we explain why no more nerfs for hades / no solid damage buffs for other kits?)

I think the main problem is they can be thrown anywhere within their range.
Even conceptually, grenades aren’t something you throw near yourself. They should place a risk-factor to throw grenades within 500 distance of yourself, or put a minimum range.

That way, it would stop overshadowing Bomb and Flamethrower kit for melee-ranged damage. Instead, they would compliment each other.

The only reason the Grenade kit overshadows the Flamethrower kit is because the flamethrower deals pitiful damage.

Grenades DONT need a nerf, every other aspect of the engineer needs a buff. Although this is starting to stray from the topic.

NickDollahZ.5348:

sigil of strength + grenade kit. People are really never gonna leave grenade kit now if we get stats + sigil. I guess they could always fiddle with the weapon damage to keep it in line. Either way looking forward to that.

By “Fiddle with the damage” i really hope you mean buff all the other kits and weapons so that they are on the level of grenade kit.

dundle.2937:

I’ve been playing an Engineer since launch and I never had problems with killing mobs. Ever. Our DPS is amazing, and not to be a kitten or anything, but you’re probably just doing it wrong, or you suck. Try finding a new build, or actually tinkering with your skills.

I swear to god if i get one more person saying “ur doin it wrong” ill throw a kitten fit.

Here, let me do it anyways.

I had someone tell me “You are doing your flamethrower build wrong” in a thread, because of that guy i said, hey, what the hell, and went out, bought 20g worth of Rampager’s exotics, runes, sigils, and tested out my FT.

Damage was still abysmal at just 1.8k damage over the whole 2 1/4 seconds it took to Flame Jet. My guardian crits for that in a 1/2 second auto attack. Same with Warrior. Same with every other class that Arenanet actually pays attention to.

It was then i realized that you people will just tell everyone everything about the engineer is “just fine, where it needs to be, ect.” and will PARROT it until we get nerfed to the point of uselessness.

What happened to our 4 second bleed on pistol shot? Hey, guess we didn’t need it. Backdraft on flamethrower? pffft, have a terrible smoke vent instead. Smoke bomb applying blind too rapidly? Here, let us make it 110% worthless and then try to cover it up by saying that “It’s just worse against faster attackers, and better against slower attackers.” And hey, who needs a good array of Elite skills to choose from, one is all you need. Who needs decent turret AI? Who needs decent DPS? Get in line with Rangers.

This isn’t someone who just logged onto Engie on day and said, “This sucks”, this is someone who has 300 Hours on an engineer, this is someone who wants, TRIES, to love this class to death but just cant because of this god awful balancing. This is someone who has tried every unorthodox build, every obvious build, every weapon set and kit, everything. This is someone who has tried EVERYTHING.

This? This is stupid. I’m being endlessly frustrated with the balance of a class in a video game of all things but im still just sad.

So you know what OP? Do whatever you want. Whatever floats your boat. Make anything you want, if Engineer feels weak? Roll a warrior. Grab a greatsword. Cant beat em, join em.

I’ll go down with my ship.

Ahlen.7591:

Ricky Rouse.1583:

Toolkit really needs to replace Box of Nails with something. Its just…ew. Cripple and bleed is great, but 1 second cast time, and they can just run away from the pitiful area it covers? And smack, whack, and thwack? Really need to be replaced by Throw wrench, or something better then “bad damage and vuln, bad damage and vuln, good damage on a 1 second cast time”. Prybar, Gear shield and magnet are great though.

Ah ha! but if you have kit refinement (I never leave home without it) it spawns a Box of nails instantly when you switch to toolkit, which gives you time/space to cast another box of nails ontop of it!

I would rather run Swift on Kit use and Vigor on Swiftness.

Im not one for taking a trait to make an ability useful when i can get better benefits.

Ahlen.7591:

Elixir gun exists for Kit Refinment and Super Elixir. 4 is super situationally good.

I would prefer if it had some additional effect to it, maybe poison or vuln if they remain on the area, or an increased area. The damage is okay, but the enemy needs to stand on the tiny, tiny spot for the whole duration for it to be worthwhile.

The jump part of it is amazing though

Toolkit really needs to replace Box of Nails with something. Its just…ew. Cripple and bleed is great, but 1 second cast time, and they can just run away from the pitiful area it covers? And smack, whack, and thwack? Really need to be replaced by Throw wrench, or something better then “bad damage and vuln, bad damage and vuln, good damage on a 1 second cast time”. Prybar, Gear shield and magnet are great though.

DreamOfACure.4382:

It’s really good in my opinion. Especially if you’re focused on PvE.

Against bunched up mobs, you’ll get multiple explosions hitting multiple targets for tons of AoE damage. It also maximizes the effectiveness of your Poison Dart Volley.
(Those are the only two skills to really benefit anyway)

unless its been changed recently, you can only hit each target once UNLESS

-Target is up against a wall
-Target is a really hard to get max-range sweetspot

Even then, its just the damage. You cannot bleed twice, even if you hit them with the bullet and the explosion.

I wasn’t impressed with Tankcat either. It’s a basic bunker build with lots of invuln. It really doesn’t have much else going for it besides the fact that…its a bunker build. You can keep a couple idiots on your tail while they blow cooldowns on you. Too bad at any moment they can decide to not be stupid and walk away from you, since you really aren’t worth chasing. I mean, the build has one good big damage ability: The prybar.

Someone please tell me why you would ever get Rocket Boots over Elixir S.

And dont say “Distance.” If they enemy has a ranged weapon and half a brain they can get free hits on you while you are on your butt, stunned, when the whole point of a stun breaker is getting away so they CANT GET FREE HITS ON YOU.

I would gladly trade 1/2 the range of the self-knockback of the boots in exchange for not being stunned.

Flamethrower and Bombs/Elixir Gun would probably imply that Carrion would be best. I use full carrion exotics for my Flamethrower or Bomb/Toolkit builds since those weapons focus on big damage and big condition damage (Concussion Bomb + Prybar can deal some heavy damage both in Direct Damage and Condition Damage).

Its all about preference, though.

NevirSayDie.6235:

All professions have trash traits that not a single one of the million plus players will ever, ever use more than once or twice for laughs. It’s part of a time-honored RPG tradition of having some tempting, but underpowered choices, so that you feel like you’ve accomplished something by discovering the better ones.

…Dude.

What?

Did you really just try to tell me Arenanet intentionally made Acidic Elixirs useless just so someone else can feel good when they discover that Grenadier is a good trait? And you think this is TRADITION?

That just

I dont even

Flamethrower REALLY needs more damage.

If you think this is some random dingus speaking without knowing at all what hes talking about: I have full Carrion Exotic gear with 3 Superior Runes of the Hoelbrak and 3 Superior Runes of the Fire. This with Juggernaut gives me 9 stacks of might through that alone, and i throw in Elixir Traits into the mix with Might on elixir use and whatnot. I’m nearly fully kitten geared and built specifically for the Flamethrower.

And you really want to know how much damage flame jet deals, WITH the full carrion exotics (Power, +Condition damage), WITH the 10 stacks of might, and even counting the burn it does at the end of the attack?

About 1.7-1.8k damage. Over the course of 2+ seconds, about 3 with the burn damage. All this assuming the target stays in FT range and i dont get that stupid MISS MISS MISS.

That.

Is.

PATHETIC.

For a weapon that is MEANT to be dangerous at close range. A Guardian deals more damage smacking someone around with a Hammer than i can deal covering them in liquid fire.

Replace Box of Nails with ANYTHING (Maybe a robot that will activate, follow a target and explode when the target comes within a certain distance.)

Replace Smack, Whack, and Thwack with Throw Wrench, and replace Throw Wrench with some other toolbelt ability.

Or something like this.

Rottaran Owain.6789:

I’d love it if I didn’t have pointless/redundant traps as a thief.
I’d love it if ranger wasn’t so underpowered.
I’d love it if Warrior wasn’t so boring, and simple.
I’d love it if Necro didn’t have so many bugs.
I’d love it if my Mesmer had decent AoE for PvE.
I’d love it if my Guardian had a weapon that was decent at range.
I’d love it if my Elementalist wasn’t forced into extremely specific trait lines, and builds.

A couple things with this post. Warrior is boring because its a kitten warrior. I pick up weapon, i hit you, you die. Thats what a warrior is. Thats what a Warrior does. Unless we want realistic warriors which would use SPESHUL TAKTICS and revolve around group/army warfare which would be interesting but in MMO’s where 90% of people want to go lone wolf aint gonna happen.

And Mesmer not having decent AoE for PvP? Are you out of your mind? The AoE Quickness is already a boss-melter and Shatter kittening hurts bro.

And guardians needing range? For WHAT? To beatdown on the other ranged users they already give the middle finger to with reflection bubbles? To dance around the Sumo Ring and throw pretty balls of light at them? Not only that, you arent going to be doing much GUARDING at a range.

And dont you kittening bring up Thieves. Last thing they need is more attention/love when they already eviscerate battlegrounds by mashing the heartseeker button.

Cheapy.8657:

Please go to every other profession’s forum and look for a thread about why that profession has been forgotten by the devs and/or why the devs hate the profession. When a realization dawns upon you, come back.

The difference here is Engineers aren’t just plagued by small balance issues. This isn’t a matter of “lmao pls buff cus i want 2 1shot everfing”. This is a matter of “We’ve had these bugs since BETA please fix” and then getting complete silence, and a couple useless buffs. (Oh goody, 10% speed and -10% pvp damage to the only kit that wasn’t complete kitten Now i can get pigeonholed into a single spec even harder)

The buffs to Turret A.I, lack of any legit burst damage without giving up condition/stun removal, and overall Engineer damage output being kitten can come later, for now, i just want these stupid, huge bugs and trait issues to get fixed up.

Lyuben.2613:

EpicFace.8096:

Lyuben.2613:

XelNigma.6315:

bombs should out damage grenades.
from a blanace stand point bombs have such major down sides they should probably be the hardest hitting weapon kit we have.
You can only place them at your feet, there timed, and give plenty of warning to player to get out of harms way before the blast.

They do though.

Bombs do more damage, if grenades don’t have grenadier.

And grenadier pushing grenades above bombs isn’t a problem, because there is a huge opportunity cost in taking 30 trait points and a grandmaster trait.

Bombs don’t need many traits to be effective, grenades without grenadier do not share that luxury.

Basically grenades are good to use if you just want to go fast and do things a tad easier, but in the long run bombs are better. Seems right, because bombs are much more risky (though i am usually close range with my grenades anyway lololol)

I wouldn’t say bombs are better, I’d say they have a different niché.

But basically for damage:

Grenades with Grenadier>Bombs>Grenades Normally

Aside from damage, bombs have other uses of course. The smoke bomb is extremely useful for melee fights and when traited, it and fire bomb are HUGE combo fields. Big ole bomb is technically also, the biggest damage skill the engineer has. Techincally as it is the biggest single hit, while grenade barrage does more damage if all grenades hit, each individual grenade is weak. And… it does great CC.

I’d say bombs are more utility/PvP based, and grenades are simply more damage and /PvE based.

You can have both though. Don’t let that stop you.

Wait, you mean to tell me there are people that DONT go 30 into Splosives and use both the Grenade kit AND the Bomb kit for amazing condition damage and combo fields?

Surely you jest.

I miss when Mini-mines were combo blasts

with bomb kit you could get 15+ seconds of invis with smoke bomb or 15 stacks of might with Fire bomb.

Ah the good old days (a couple weeks ago)

Dont even bother with GW2 Guru.

They were saying that engineer was overpowered and the flamethrower was in need of a nerf and that Elementalists were in great need of a buff last time i was there.

I needed to go boil my tongue to get the taste out of my mouth

I think the issue here is Warrior gets long range, high damage skills with a ton of health and heavy armor to boot.

Engineer is a medium armor mid-low health class that for some reason still requires you to step on someone’s toes to do good burst. Oh, and Rifle warrior deals 10k damage in a single crit on killshot with the right build. Look me in the eyes and tell me thats not stupid in comparison to a class that needs to get into melee range and blow all your cooldowns to do even close to that much damage.

Vashj.2149:

If the OP is still checking on his topic im more curious as to the Elixir gun heal build he was running if he could provide a link. Me personally im using dual pistols and with 30 in alchemy and sigils of agony, bleeds stay at about 5-6 stacks and if i run with elixir U i can stack it to -9 if only for a brief second.

I do agree that it seems they drop off way faster than you can apply them, atleast at the higher stacking numbers

Oh, uh, the Heal build, sure.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fcAQJAqalspSXnwyuF17IRIF4vwgUo36K6xjtcjB;TsAg2Cro6y0loLbXuukdN24QwUBA

Of course following it to the T might not work best for you, but the point of the build is to be as annoying as possible. You will hardly deal damage i assure you, but you shouldnt die very easily or at all. I once held a point for 4 minutes before they could actually get me off of it.

And the point of Elixir B is to get the retaliation. They hurt themselves more then they hurt you. And spam your Healing Vent off cooldown.

Tigger.8035:

Ricky Rouse.1583:

RapBreon.9836:

One of the differences is we get access to reliable amounts of daze, burning and poison. Warrior doesn’t really get it easily, so most of their condition damage will naturally come from bleeds.

Ultimately, Apples and Spaceships.

Daze?

Uh, IIRC the only daze we have is the Shield Throw. and thats on a rather high cooldown.

And the burning + poison Dual Pistol engineers get is pretty iffy considering the Burning + Darts is not at max effectiveness (Not entirely true for darts) unless you are in melee range or close to it.

You literally need to sacrifice range for damage on two of your abilities with ranged weapons on a ranged build.

I can really think of no other class that actually needs to do that. And quite frankly i find it a tad ridiculous.

doesn’t rifle 4 have a daze?

Thats a knockback.

And it also stuns YOU, by the way. Though its great for getting distance and IIRC you get up faster than the guy you shot does so its decent.

RapBreon.9836:

One of the differences is we get access to reliable amounts of daze, burning and poison. Warrior doesn’t really get it easily, so most of their condition damage will naturally come from bleeds.

Ultimately, Apples and Spaceships.

Daze?

Uh, IIRC the only daze we have is the Shield Throw. and thats on a rather high cooldown.

And the burning + poison Dual Pistol engineers get is pretty iffy considering the Burning + Darts is not at max effectiveness (Not entirely true for darts) unless you are in melee range or close to it.

You literally need to sacrifice range for damage on two of your abilities with ranged weapons on a ranged build.

I can really think of no other class that actually needs to do that. And quite frankly i find it a tad ridiculous.

Aristio.2784:

Ricky Rouse.1583:

CoraCora.2641:

and its attack speed seems really slow. it is just not viable in tournaments when a warrior can deal 40 times your damage while giving 4 times your condition damage with a better accuracy holding a rifle. Also poison dart usually misses 2-3 shots out of 5 shots even against non-moving target golems. Only viable condition build is with Elixir Gun but it is exhausting to assign auto atk 1 after some time.

Dont get me started on Rifle Warrior.

Build a crit build and you can get 10k+ Killshot crits. No joke. 10k+ damage. On a 10 second cooldown. And with the right traits, yes, you DO in fact get 10 seconds of bleed PER AUTO ATTACK.

TEN.

The Warrior Rifle is all about damage. Ours is on control/AoE. Also, how does one get 10k+ Critical Hits while simultaneously providing a 10 second bleed?

You can’t compare anything we have to the Warrior’s Burst Profession Skill. It’s not worth the trouble giving the pros and cons of their Burst Skills to our Tool Belt skills.

We have high burst on the Rifle too. With the Rifle, I usually go with Gadgets as well. So my burst rotation is Analyze>Personal Battering Ram>Jump Shot>Net Shot>Blunderbuss>Throw Wrench. EASILY breaks 10k, 15k on lighter targets.

But thats the thing. We need to use all four toolbelt skills in conjunction and in the most effective manner to deal 1/3 to 1/2 of the damage a warrior can deal by hitting F1, standing still for two seconds, then critting for half someone’s health. Even Rangers can have an easier time dealing more damage without having to use 4 additional utility slots.