Guild Wars 2

If someone told me to stop playing my main (a thief) I would tell them to go F themselves. Simple as that. I have no time for idiots.

Karl McLain.5604:

To the question regarding dash being able to remove immobilize:
Yes, the dodge ability will continue to remove immobilize. It was originally in the design to behave this way, but didn’t have a way to enable it being that you couldn’t actually initiate a dodge while you were immobilized. We now have the tech to make it work cleanly and would like to test it all out in the next beta.

-Karl

Thanks Karl, that’s great news! Looking forward to trying this out next BWE.

I know what you’re saying, Sorin, but I think that is an issue with how the game teaches new players, not necessarily the combo system itself. If the combo field system had more emphasis put on it, maybe add a few hearts in the starter zones that teach players to use them in some way, I think more players would start making use of the system.

I think the combo fields system is a great idea, and it can be extremely useful when used correctly. I do not think improvements to that system should be hindered because of a lack of knowledge about it, when a good tutorial could remedy that lack of knowledge. But it is a valid point you make.

I think my suggestion would be too complicated for new players to get to grips with straight away, but it was more aimed at the veteran players, to give them something else to master.

Hi all,

I am not sure if this has been mentioned before, but I had an idea today for a way to add extra functionality to the combo field system, without having to add more field/finisher types, so I thought I would post it here to see what others thought of it.

The basic idea is, when you have two fields on top of each other, they will create a new effect when hit by a finisher. Here are some examples to show what I mean:

Ice Field + Water Field + Blast Finisher = Creates a 3 second duration sheet of ice, in an area centered where the blast hits the ground, which causes any moving enemies to slip on the ice and fall down for 1 second.

Ethereal Field + Light Field + Leap Finisher = Creates an illusion of the leaping player and stealths them for 4 seconds. The illusion lasts for 4 seconds and when it disappears or is destroyed it inflicts a random condition on foes around it.

Smoke Field + Water Field + Whirl Finisher = The whirl sprays darkened water around them, revealing any stealthed foes in range for 6 seconds.

Ethereal Field + Dark Field + Projectile Finisher = Charges the projectile with a mix of dark and chaotic energy allowing it to bounce two times after the initial target, blinding each foe hit for 3 seconds.

These are just some quick ideas thrown together, but the basic idea behind field mixing is to add more functionality to professions without needing to give them new skills. It would add a very complex system for veteran teams to utilize, and it would give new ways to play old builds.

I know it would require a hell of a lot of work, in order to create an effect for every double field and finisher combination, but I think it could make things more interesting for skilled teams, and would be a good way of adding extra functionality to professions who may lack certain mechanics. For example, a thief and elementalist duo could gain access to a reveal.

Anyway, what do you guys think? Good idea or too complicated and problematic? I’m not expecting this to be implemented, but I thought I would just throw the idea out there just for fun.

Karl McLain.5604:

Re: Dash update!
The original reason we had removed the extra distance on Dash was that we lacked the tech. Since that post, it’s been resolved. Thus, the distance of Dash is back, with a fervor. Now you’ll travel a full 450, up from the 360 previous (~300 base dodge), while moving at a faster-than-running speed. Swiftness duration increased to 10 seconds, up from the 8 we talked about originally.
This thing’s about solid movement, so we’re going to push it in that direction for this BWE. Please check it out and let us know how you feel about it. The animation’s going to remain as your character’s run for now.
We are aware that this new distance will cause some de-sync in synergy with Shadow Refuge, but feel that the open-field movement capability for daredevil needs to take precedence over this abliity. note: You can still dodge from edge-to-edge and remain inside the field, but it’s pretty tricky.

Thanks for the update Karl. If possible, please can you clarify about the immobilize removal. Is this still part of the dodge, or has this been removed now the extra distance has been restored? The immob removal would be great, but I would understand if it was removed again, as the extra distance is going to make this a superb addition to a mobility setup as it is.

Karl McLain.5604:

A short update:
We’ve been working heavily on the dodge abilities, making them react the same way that your normal dodge occurs. There have been a lot of long hours, but we managed to get this functionality in for the next beta.

• The ‘Bound’ dodge animation is shorter and more appropriate for a dodge.
• Dash – The extra distance has been removed for now as well. Dash now breaks immobilize in addition to its other effects. For now, the animation is just going to run you in the direction you’re dodging.
• Impaling Lotus – The jump has been removed, as it caused issues that couldn’t be remedied. I’ll update if other things happen.

Other things:

• re: Shalien. I haven’t got this in the next beta, but the plan is to drastically reduce the cast time of Channeled Vigor. (3/4 to 1 second or so)
• Idle/running animations while wielding a staff are not planned to change at this time. There are, however, a couple of animations being worked on as development continues.

-Karl

Can I just say a big thank you to you Karl, for keeping us up to date with your progress. We really appreciate it.

And I am glad to see the dodge anims are coming along. Looking forward to seeing what the final version of Dash will be like. And I cannot wait to try the improved bound.

Dawntree.7246:

Rin.1046:

Things I would like to see in WvW:
[…]
– More strategic importance to towers and keeps (beyond point scoring).

All structures are vital for mobility, as owning a keep or a tower significantly change the way you move around. Upgraded towers will be able to spot enemies

Rin.1046:

- More impact from scouts (enemy spotting on the map for example).

The stress test already had this and the final release will have it.

That’s good to hear, and I must admit I have high hopes for the new map.

@Xeno – Longer fights doesn’t necessarily have to mean tougher walls or gates. It ideally means players fighting each other for longer. If you funnel players together more, which it sounds like the new BL will do to a certain degree, you increase the uptime of conflict.

The exciting part of WvW (for me) is then you get two equally sized and skilled zergs clashing over an objective. Those moments (rare as they can be) are fun and can last a good while. Not hours, but not a couple of minutes either. If one group simply cannot defeat the other, they will know when to quit and regroup. The trick to the long siege, in my opinion, is finding ways to get players to clash against each other more.

I’ve not watched the vid yet as I’m at work, but will give it a watch later.

I tried an interrupt build in stronghold with great success. It is definitely a good build to run. I ran SP and staff, mostly using SP. Staff is ok, but would like the evade to be ground targeted (so you have more control over the direction) and would of liked an interrupt option on staff (out of stealth). Staff is a decent melee AoE damage weapon, but it doesn’t offer anything other sets can do better in my opinion.

Anyway, looking forward to watching the vid later, as I am keen to see how Daredevil plays in WvW.

I have not had the chance to try the new BL myself yet, unfortunately, but I agree with both Chaba’s and MRA’s views on the long siege.

For WvW to have that epic warfare feel, the long siege needs to be improved somehow. Which means fights over towers and keeps need to be drawn out not shortened. Most fights in the current BL are way too short in my opinion. By the time a group has rallied to defend a zerg can quickly steamroll a tower and cap it. Another problem I feel WvW has is that it currently feels like there is only ever one big group running around the map, with the rest being small groups and roamers, which makes the game mode feel too small and not very epic.

Things I would like to see in WvW:

- Longer fights over towers and keeps (the long siege).
– More strategic importance to towers and keeps (beyond point scoring).
– Reasons to have several large groups in different areas of the map at the same time.
– More reasons to keep supply chains intact.
– More impact from scouts (enemy spotting on the map for example).
– Situational conditions that effect battle (bad weather conditions for example).

WvW desperately needs to move on from the tower flipping meta and needs to start being an epic war for control and domination. It needs more RTS.

Leo G.4501:

…snip for size…

You have some valid points, and I do agree that the way Anet creates content to fit with their combat system needs work. I also agree that parts of the system need improvement, such as your example about regen. If protection was stronger when specced with defensive stats, then defensive stats would be able to offer stronger support then dps specs.

Now Anet has voiced that they are not frightened to use a harder trinity system (due to each profession being able to swap roles), I really think they need to improve the boons and conditions system to work better with stats, so that your gear makes more of a difference. I do not think this change would jeopardise the current soft trinity too much, because each prof can easily change from dps to tank. So long as content can be tackled with any team composition, which I think is the ultimate goal Anet has for their game, I think a stronger trinity could work, without it becoming a restricted trinity, that is often utilized in other games. If that makes sense?

In my mind, if a team is specced full dps they should be able to clear mobs faster but be at a higher risk of being wiped, and the opposite should be true of a full team of tanks. Both groups should be able to tackle the content, but in different ways. I really like the boons system, but there needs to be more reason to spec into defensive stats, which currently there isn’t. That’s not to say defesive or supportive stats are not effective, they can be, but like you say, when dps stats can do the job just as/more effectively than defensive stats what is the point in speccing into them?

I really like Anet’s combat system, I just hope they can improve their content to utilize it more.

Dagins.5163:

And maybe also add 25 might stack while we are at it?

The trait is absolutely fine and needs no changes. Devs simply linked Haste to this trait to make it simplier for them. Maybe a little bit lazy, but it works as expected.

Personally I am not bothered about the non-useful stun break part of the trait, as I prefer to have much more control over when I stun break, so I am ok with the trait as it is. But I think its just one of those ‘normal human behavour’ things, where people get frustrated when they see a skill’s capabilities but are not able to make full use of all of its components.

The trait is essential there only to give you quickness and fury, but people see the stun break in the discription and want to use that too.

Fade.5904:

Please make ‘Dash’ a shadowstep instead of the clunky run animation! or leave it as the old dodge animation but add 2 secs super speed or some such.

Interesting idea, and one I could get behind. The only issues I see with it are the potential for pathing issues and the thematics of it.

Currently there are some pathing restrictions to shadowstepping, and the last thing you want to happen is to try and dodge but fail because the spot you would have stepped to is not possible to shadowstep to. If it was like a normal dodge but looked like a shadow step, that might work, but I expect that would take a bit of work creating that effect.

Regarding the thematics of it, the Daredevil is not really a shadow magic kind of spec. They are more physical and about agility more then shadows and trickery, so I am not sure a shadow stepping dodge would fit the Daredevil theme.

It is a cool idea though, so maybe that is something they could add to another elite spec in the future.

Gabriell.4856:

Wtf is this? We roleplaying again? Fine. I will role play with you.

That is fine as long as DD don’t spec thief. Hope you enjoy specing into one trait line and if you trait into the other 5 then you’re a hypocrite or shall we say more thief than DD. lolz

Seriously? Are you really getting that upset over one skill? Do you rely on stealth that much?!

This has f all to do with role playing, it is about playstyles. The core thief playstyle is about using stealth and being effective at taking opponents by surprise. The DD playstyle is about getting in the thick of it, evading and interrupting their targets. Yes, you can make a hybrid, but don’t expect a full stealth build to work with a traitline that is about evasive play.

If you want to be strong at evades then take DD, if you want to be strong at stealth then take Thief. If you want to be strong at both, then you will be very disappointed.

You can run an effective stealth build with the DD traitline, all it means is that Shadow Refuge (again ONE SKILL) is more risky to use, but any other stealth related skill and trait will work just as it currently does. If Shadow Refuge really is that much of a crutch to you then you have bigger problems to deal I’m afraid.

Gabriell.4856:

Because each GM has a potential to reveal me so…please give me an option to turn it off when I don’t need it.

At the end of the day, if you want to spec for stealth, core thief is where you want to be. The DD is all about evades, so they are less inclined to think about stealth and how it fits into their build. Besides, this is only a risk for Shadow Refuge, which is ONE skill. I do not think they will/should change the dodge replacer’s functionality just to accomodate one skill, when you can easily spec for core thief and use it without an issue.

If you want Shadow Refuge to work on your bar, go thief.

Gabriell.4856:

Need a kitten F6 to turn that kitten off or /regular dodge so I can dodge in my SR… ; /

Anyways, as I said before, add those dodges to F3-5.

With my Unhindered Stance example you will essentially be doing a normal dodge but gain swiftness and remove cripple. Why would you want to turn that off?

@Bllade – I just feel it would offer you too many tools while in combat, but hey, if Anet wants to do that then I won’t complain. But I suspect other profs will.

Your crippled and chilled? No probs I’ll swap to dash and remove them. Smoke field? Excellent, I’ll swap to bound and stealth. I need to cripple them but have no initiative, no probs I’ll swap to lotus and cripple them. You cannot do all of these things in the DD’s current state, and I think that was a balancing decision they made.

With more evades, condition clears from evades and endurance gain from steal, not to mention endurance gain from core thief traits and skills, having access to so many tricks on your dodging could potentially be OP. Each dodge replacer can be very strong on its own. Bounding dodger for example can help pistol pistol and sword pistol users enter stealth more easily, and that is not something to be sniffed at. That is very strong. So they need to weigh up the pros and cons of allowing access to all 3 in combat, and in my opinion I think they will consider it too strong.

Bllade.1029:

Maybe an idea where instead of just giving you access to one the dodges, the GM traits greatly enhance a particular dodge you wish to focus on; making it much more powerful.

The way they are now (with some slight adjustments to the animation and mechanics) would be the base dodge you would get between your F3-F4-F5 dodge swap. However, one of those would be your focus and the traits would greatly enhance that particular dodge.

Example might be: “I’m going to need a lot more mobility and condition cleanse, i’m going to spec into dash.” Dash would do what it does now, but that GM trait might give it something like increased range, removal of more conditions on evade. Etc.

Another example: “I think Condi pressure is on the menu for this particular fight, im going to specialize into Lotus Training on this one.” So you’d spec into Lotus training which would enhance the dodge even more so.

At the end of the day you could use multiple dodges, but one of them is going to be your focus.

So what you want is to have all 3 dodges available while in combat, AND you want one of them to be stronger via a GM trait? Having access to all 3 in combat would be OP enough, without being able to augment one even more.

I would be ok with having a revenant legend type selection, so you can select any dodge, but only while out of combat, and free up the GMs for something else.

I think having access to all 3 dodges (as they currently are), in combat, would be too much. I like the idea of them being stances, but I think if that was to happen the dodge replacers would need to be toned down. So my suggestion is as follows:

F3-5 sets you into different stances, which augments your dodge, and the GM traits can augment those stances even more. Each stance and GM trait would work as follows:

Stances
Lotus Stance = When you dodge you throw two daggers out to apply bleeding and torment to your target.

Unhindered Stance = When you dodge you gain swiftness and remove cripple.

Bounding Stance = When you dodge you deal AoE damage where you land.

GM Traits
Lotus Master = Your Lotus Stance is improved, allowing you to throw out one more dagger when dodging, to cripple your foe, and your dodge becomes a whirl finisher. While you have the Lotus Stance active you gain increased condition duration (+10%).

Unstoppable Master = Your Unhindered Stance is improved, allowing your dodge to remove chill and you travel further. While you have the Unhindered Stance active immobilize effects on you have reduced duration (-30%)

Leaping Master = Your Bounding Stance is improved, adding a leap finisher to your dodge rolls. While Bounding Stance is active you gain 10 endurance when you successfully evade an attack.

The above might be OP, but its the general idea I am trying to convey. If we are going to have all 3 dodges available in combat, there effectiveness needs to be reduced in some way, in my opinion.

I like the stability idea, I think if there was going to be a change to the stun break portion of this trait, stability would be much more useful than a delayed stun break. Having the stun break trigger 10 seconds later would be just as ineffective as instantanious stun breaking IMO.

It seems wearing tanky stats is as effective as trying to express how ineffective they are.

The trait auto casts that particular skill without you having to slot it on your skillbar, it just happens to have the stun break component to it, which the trait is unlikely to use. I am not sure if a well targeted and timed steal+mug trait would trigger the stun break, not tested that myself, but that might be possible.

Really, the trait is more for the quickness and fury than the stun break. It also (currently) has a shorter cooldown than the utility skill, and I am wondering if that is intentional due to not being able to fully utilitise the stun break?

Bllade.1029:

Also the tooltip reads that heal as physical and I think thats a great idea, make the heal offensive and physical. Reward the player for landing strikes on the enemy doing damage while at the same time sustaining.

I would like this too. The heal should be more offensive. Maybe a kind of life steal skill, where you attack and heal for each hit you land. Then, like Fist Flurry, if you hit with all strikes you gain bonus endurance as well.

I think many are missing the point of Anet’s trinity, and yes there is a trinity in GW2, its called damage, control & support.

Anet do not want you to be locked into one role all the time, or throughout an entire dungeon for instance. They want there to be tanky builds, but tanking is not the only thing you will be able to do. Even if you stat heavily into high vitality and toughness, you can still bring along tons of control and support to help your team in other ways beyond staying alive for longer. And the beauty of the GW2 system is that you can change to a DPS build at any time (out of combat). You are not, for example, locked into a healing role as a guardian profession.

Anet are not removing the features and mechanics of the trinity, they are merely removing the confines and restrictions of it, by allowing you to mix and match or chop and change. And they are also giving you the ability to tackle any situation with any build. Raids may change this of course, and that will hopefully be in a good way, but because you can change your build you will not be stuck in one role throughout the entire raid.

I personally really like Anet’s approach to the trinity system. Their flexible soft trinity is much more engaging and adaptable than any other I have tried, and I am really looking forward to seeing how they make more use of it in raids.

Anything that makes an altoholic’s life easier is a good thing in my book, and I would pay real money for it.

So many haven’t understood what the OP is trying to say in this thread!

He is saying that defensive stats (from your gear and passives from traits and skills) are not enough to stop big hitting attacks from bosses, in large events that have been scaled up by lots of players, rendering those stats pointless. In other words, why bother choosing defensive stats, or including them in the game, if you cannot make use of them when you need them the most? You can dodge or block in every encounter, why can you not make use of high toughness in every encounter? Especially as you are sacrificing so much for it (i.e. all or most of your damage output).

I personally rarely run with defensive stats, so I cannot confirm or deny the OP’s claim of getting one shot in toughness gear, but I do at least understand the point being made.

Here’s the thing. Colin, not that long ago, confirmed that they are not shying away from the trinity as such, they just do not want professions to get stuck in one role at all times. They want us to be able to switch roles to meet the needs of any given situations. To play the way we want and have the option to change.

That could easily mean having a very strong tanking/healing build, so long as you can easily change to a DPS build at any time. There is no forced/fixed trinity because every profession can change their build to fit any role. That’s not what a lot of players (myself included) thought they meant, but hey thats for a different thread altogether. Anyway, the point is this idea of a flexible trinity means that they really could start redesigning content to make tanking and healing builds much more useful, as well as making tanking and healing builds themselves more powerful. If they want players to have the option of building for tanking or healing, why not make those roles more effective and make content utilize those builds better?

So how do they fix large scale events, to make use of things like high toughness? Well why not, instead of raising the damage, raise the number of players a big attack can hit? So for example, give the boss an attack that would hit 2,000 armour characters in range for say 15,000 health, but it would only hit 3,000 armour characters for 7,000 health, then as more players join the event the attack can hit more and more targets at once, increasing the risk to the group as a whole rather than only for a small group. That way high toughness would still be useful and events could scale up in difficulty to match the number of participating players. Imagine how much harder that would be for zergs? No more mindless armies running around following the dorito, feeling safe in the knowledge that the odds are stacked in their favour. If a larger number of players could potentially get downed in one go, everyone would need to pay attention or have the right gear.

I don’t know if this would be technically possible, or easily achieved, but its a thought. I guess the only balancing problem would be how well toughness and healing would work in WvW and PvP. But at least the number of targets scaling above would only effect PvE, without having to change how effecting toughness and healing power is.

Please try to keep the feedback in one place.

That way the devs don’t have to waste precious time hunting the entire forum for different threads containing feedback. If you want to increase your chances of your feedback being read, go to where the most people have posted, or (as is the case here) where a dev has already posted.

Kydar Schattendolch.6879:

…PLEASE MAKE PULMONARY IMPACT DOES NOT BREAK STEALTH…

I actually feel the opposite to you on this. I think Pulmonary Impact should reveal you. I understand it is kind of like a condition, but to me the Daredevil is all about evades and nothing about stealth. So with that in mind I do not think the Daredevil’s techniques should work around or be considerate of stealth in any way. Hell, I would even be ok if the staff had no stealth skill.

You are effectively performing a strike on your target that has a delayed damage portion. Therefore, in my opinion, I think inflicting Pulmonary Impact should reveal you the moment you plant it on your victim, not when the damage triggers. Either way, hitting your target with such a high damage attack should reveal you IMO.

Things I really like about the Daredevil:

Bandit’s Defense – Great skill, I hope they do not change this skill. I know they will increase the cooldown to 15 seconds, but I hope it doesn’t get longer than that. Its a great skill to use as a stun breaker or an interrupt, or both. One of my favourite skills so far.

Impact Strike (Elite) – Another favourite. A great skill as a mid fight interrupt or a rapid finisher. This skill will be replaing Basilisk Venom on my skillbar.

Distracting Daggers – A very useful interrupt skill with the added benefit of increasing the cooldown of the interrupted skill. When used right this is a very good skill. It needs a bit of pre-emptive casting, but when you know your target is likely to use a heal or something, you can usually precast it ready for when you need to stop it.

Fist Furry – Good damage and a hard hitting interrupt. Combined with the Impacting Disruption trait it can deal a lot of damage. It can be hard to hit with all 5 strikes at times, but I like the high risk high reward nature of it.

Impacting Disruption – I have really been enjoying this trait. I created a high interrupt build that was dishing out a lot of damage when I timed things right. Very fun and rewarding trait and seems to do a decent enough amount of damage even though it doesn’t crit.

All Dodge Replacers – Apart from the feel of them (I know Karl is looking at that) I really like all 3 dodge replacers. I can see Bounding Dodger and Lotus Training being used much more then Dash, due to the finishers and other effects, but I think some will run with Dash when building for maximum mobility.

Extra Endurance Bar – What’s not to like about this? An extra dodge is great, and while it is not as much endurance gain as the old acrobatics trait would have given, over a longer fight, I think it is a good compromise.

Apart from the heal skill and the general functionality of the staff, all other traits and skills seem fine to me. The only trait that I think needs some attention is Evasive Empowerment. While I can see how this trait could be useful, I just don’t see it getting picked over the other two in that tier.

For the most part I think the Daredevil is in a pretty good state to be honest. If they can fix the staff and the heal skill it will be a very good elite spec, and one I can see myself happily running as my main. Hell, even if they don’t fix the staff and heal skill I will still be running as a Daredevil because of the above traits and skills. I’m happy so far, I hope Anet can make me even happier .

Please try to keep the feedback in one place.

That way the devs don’t have to waste precious time hunting the entire thief subforum for different threads containing feedback. If you want to increase your chances of your feedback being read, go to where the most people have posted, or (as is the case here) where a dev has already posted.

Rin.1046:

…I feel that the staff should offer you tools to keep you in the fight and control your enemies. Therefore I have the following two skill change suggestions:

Debilitating Arc = Remove the evade and replace it with a half second stun/daze/knock up effect. Keep the cripple and immobilize removal, but increase the initiative cost to 5.

Vault = Add an evade during the leap but reduce the damage by an appropriate amount.

I really think the staff needs at least one control skill and the evade needs to keep/get you in the fight, rather than take you out of it (which we already have on the shortbow)…

I just thought I would add a little more of an explanation as to why I feel the staff needs the above changes.

I wanted to run a high burst evade build, with strong control. So I ran with the Bounding Dodger and Impacting Disruption traits. These two traits allowed me to deal damage when evading and interrupting. In other words they rewarded me for playing skillfully, when I timed my interrupts or positioned my evades well I dealt more damage.

I was really hoping to be able to use the staff as my main weapon, and have either SB or PP for a ranged option when needed. However, because the staff’s evade takes you away from your target, and because there is no stun/daze/knockup on the weapon (outside of stealth), I found that sword+pistol was a far superior option for this build. With sword+pistol I was doing very well. When I timed Pistol Whip/Headshot/Steal right I was rewarded with a spike in damage. The staff unfortunately did not offer me this, certainly not anywhere near as reliably.

If the staff is not designed to keep you in a fight or to be strong at controlling foes, then that is fine. I will stick with sword+pistol for this role. But I got the impression from the blog post that the staff was supposed to be the daredevil’s weapon of choice when taking on a more offensive role. Unfortunately, while it does deal some very nice damage, it doesn’t do as well in any other respect compared to the thief’s existing weapons.

I really think the evade should keep you in, or take you into, the fight not take you out of it. I also think that, because we have the impacting disruption trait it would make sense to have some way of reliably making use of that trait with the staff, without having to rely on utility skills or stealth. We have no way to gain stealth on the weapon alone, so we cannot use Hook Strike without a stealth utility skill or traiting steal. I can live without a reliable source of Hook Strikes to be honest, but I would prefer it if the staff had a reliable way to interrupt enemies without stealth.

The staff to me feels like it would be an ideal stunning weapon and the daredevil feels like it shouldn’t need to use stealth to do well. Anyway, I hope the staff gets looked at, as I think that needs the most attention.

The thief is about stealth, the daredevil us about evasion. If you want to troll people while stealthed you play thief, the daredevil is not about staying in stealth, hence the damage part of lotus training. This is working as intended as far as I am concerned.

So, I’ve played the Daredevil for most of the BWE, doing some Stronghold and Verdant Brink. For the most part I really like it, but there are some things I would like to give my feedback on. The traits, all utility skills and the elite skill are great, and I personally do not think they need to change. However, in my opinion the heal skill and the staff need some improvements. So without further ado, here is my feedback:

Traits

As already mentioned by others, the dodge replacers feel delayed/clunky, however, I know Karl is already aware of and looking at that. The feel of the dodging aside, I think the traits are functionally good, with each replacer being useful for different builds. However, I think that Bounding Dodger and Lotus Training will be used in more situations than Dash, as the only real beneift of Dash is the mobility, which the thief can easily get elsewhere if needed. If a player wants to make a super mobile build, then Dash will be very useful, other than that I think most will choose the other two dodges.

Skills

All the utility skills seem to be in a good place to me. Fist Flurry was tricky to get all strikes to hit at times, but I see this skill as a high risk high reward kind of thing, so I am ok with how it is.

The elite skill is awesome, and if you time it right can be very effective at rapidly downing opponents or can be used as an effective control skill mid fight. This skill is one of my favourites, along with Bandit’s Defense.

The heal skill is where the first issue is for me. While it is very good at regaining endurance, I feel it is far too easily interrupted with an undefended cast time that is way too long. For an elite spec that it is all about getting in and staying in the thick of a fight, that 2.25 second cast time feels like an eternity. It doesn’t feel very agile and makes you feel more vulnerable than anything else and breaks your offensive flow too much.

Staff

The staff is where I have the second issue. From what I gather, the Daredevil is supposed to get into fights and stay there. They have high evasive and good control (hense skills like Fist Flurry, Distracting Daggers and the elite). However, the staff only offers one evade (that moves you out of the fight) and no control skills.

I feel that the staff should offer you tools to keep you in the fight and control your enemies. Therefore I have the following two skill change suggestions:

Debilitating Arc = Remove the evade and replace it with a half second stun/daze/knock up effect. Keep the cripple and immobilize removal, but increase the initiative cost to 5.

Vault = Add an evade during the leap but reduce the damage by an appropriate amount.

I really think the staff needs at least one control skill and the evade needs to keep/get you in the fight, rather than take you out of it (which we already have on the shortbow).

Wel, that’s my view of the Daredevil. For the most part I think it is in a really good place, but the heal skill and staff needs some improvement. I’m really looking forward to the next BWE to see what changes are made.

I wouldn’t worry OP, I would be very surprised if they did not add more legendary armour precursors in other parts of the game at a later stage. We could very well get WvW, guild mission and PvP methods to get them at some point. But for now they are likely designed to be a big incentive to get people playing the raids.

So long as those specific legendary skins are unique to the raids they come from, I do not see there being an issue with adding more ways to aquire different legendary armour skins elsewhere. In fact I think having unique legendary skins from different parts of the game would be a good way for players to display their achievements in a clearly visible way, without it effecting how popular content is among different players.

Don’t forget, if raids remain the only way for players to get legendary armour, then pure PvP and WvW players will not be happy. They will eventualy need to add ways for those players to get something similar within their preferred game type.

I’ve never understood this logic. To me the times seem more suited to most Europeans (I’m in the UK and they suit me fine), because we get to start the beta at about 7-8pm, which is after work for me. For the poor americans, a lot of them will have to wait until after they finish work/school before they can jump in game. So in my opinion, the US players get more shafted than us EU players.

And like Gaile rightly said, it is a whole weekend, surely you can find some time in those many hours to try the beta?

Also consider that GW2 is global, so no matter what time they start it at, they will upset someone. So it is far easier for Anet to start the beta at a time that is better for them, so they can monitor and test things, and it should be safe to assume that most players have the brains to understand why.

Daendur.2357:

Tbh projectile would be nice… Thief Dash ad fast as a bullet

If you dashed that fast you would be a different super hero altogether

This trait definitely has more mobility in mind. Extra dodge distance, swiftness and cripple & chill removal means you have pretty much perma swiftness and very limited ways to stop you. I think this trait could be very strong on a roamer or decapper in pvp.

The other two dodge replacers are more offensive in nature, so it kind of makes sense that they can make use of combo fields. It means they can be of more benefit when in the thick of a fight. While undindered combatant could make use of a finisher, I think it may be a bit OP with the other things it provides. I also assume they would want to do a different finisher to the other two and that doesn’t really leave you with much choice.

A blast finisher would be way too OP for this replacer, and projectile would not be much use or thematically fitting for what the trait does.

We’ll just have to see how good or bad it is compared to the other two, and I am sure (with constructive feedback) Anet will look at ways to make sure they are all on par with each other. Just bear in mind that each dodge replacer may end up being very strong in different areas. While Bounding Dodger may be strong in an offensive sense, Unhindered Combatant may make the thief a much more slippery opponent, making them very hard to pin down.

Gabriell.4856:

Rin.1046:

So let me get this straight. Before we have even tried in the beta you are unhappy with it? I am going to through this out there now, because I think this kind of mentality is ridiculous. If you are unhappy about the elite spec, before even trying it, you are never going to like it, so you may as well move on to something else.

You totally missed the point. Suggest you go back and reread the thread before posting.

No point to miss. But thanks for the concern.

So let me get this straight. Before we have even tried in the beta you are unhappy with it? I am going to through this out there now, because I think this kind of mentality is ridiculous. If you are unhappy about the elite spec, before even trying it, you are never going to like it, so you may as well move on to something else.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Kidel.2057:

Well Roy just said on twitter that Glint is not about condi cleanse (no words about resistance yet, but I don’t think she’ll get it). Guess that Glint+Shiro will be high risk, while Glint+anything else will be viable.

Glint/shiro is really fun. My current favorite setup is sword/shield, hammer, glint, shiro. Seeing all the skills, traits, etc in game tomorrow will give you a much better idea of everything.

I’ve been theorizing Shiro & Glint with Staff & Sword+Shield/Hammer (depending on the sitch). I found Staff and Shiro really good fun last BWE, and can see these two being my main set up, with alternating secondary legend and weapon set. I think shiro’s quickness upkeep with glints nature facet is going to be really strong, and I’m really looking forward to trying this out next BWE.

Roguedemonhunter.9621:

…NOW is the time for Monty Python and the Holy Grail style coconut shells in the gem store!…

I would happily give Anet lots of money for this!

phys.7689:

part of the limitations of map design is unique resources. Essentially loading times, ram etc, which is why having one huge map with no loading screens usually involves some hidden loading areas.
basically the variation per map is limited.

then you have the fact that some types of level design require space to achieve their goal.

also based on what has been said in this thread, it doesnt sound like all the maps will be 3 zones, and some of the upper and lower areas have a fraction of the explorable area.

fact is that while 3 dense 3 level zones can have more content than 9 barren zones. 9 realized ones can have more content than 3 dense zones as well. And variation wise, 9 zones can mechanically have greater variation than 3 dense zones can have due to loading assets.

They have been working on a lot of new tech for HoT lately, such as new skill mechanics and effects, so for all we know there may be new asset loading tech or other such things to help increase the size of each zone.

As to having a variety across different maps, there is nothing to say a 2-3 tiered zone cannot have variety. If anything, I think each tier has to be differnt to each other. If you take the basic 3 tier example we have been given so far (canopy, jungle floor, roots), each tier could have a vastly different feel and playstyle to them.

For size, you only have to look at the Silverwastes to see what they are capable of putting in to a relatively small X & Z footprint.

If the total playable space we get in HoT is not that much and doesn’t keep us entertained for that long, then I too would be disappointed. But we will not know that until we get to play the full thing. But basing your disappointment on map count along is not a wise thing to do in my opinion, as it will no longer be a true representation of scale in this game.

Like others I actually like the Elder Dragon dynamic, and the way Anet has implemented it. It has room to change over time, and with the defeat of each dragon.

To start with, we had Zhaitan, and he was seen as an emotionless monster, a force of nature. And that was because, to him, we were merely insects. We were nothing to him, so he had no reason (until the end) to show us any emotion. We were just something to sweep aside or corrupt to help him attain the magical energy he needed. So throughout his story he did not show us much of his personality. And to me that was fine, because this is the first chapter of an epic story against all the Elder Dragons.

As the whole overarching story of Guild Wars 2 unfolds, the dragons will realize that the other races are not all that harmless after all. Now we have defeated Zhaitan, Mordremoth will likely play a more careful and strategic game. And chances are as we get closer to defeating him, he and the other remaining dragons will start to see us as more of a threat and will start looking at and treating us in a very different way compared to Zhaitan. And as we start to become more like equals to the elder dragons, and less like harmless insects, and as we learn more about them in general, more of each dragon’s personality will start to show.

I feel Mordremoth will behave very differently to Zhaitan, because he has now seen what we are capable of. However, he still believes he is a superior being, so his emotions will be more of anger and annoyance. But after his defeat, the other elder dragons will start to sit up and pay more attention to us.

I have a feeling that Primordus will be the last dragon we fight, and he will likely treat us as equals and it will be a very different fight to the previous dragons. Or maybe they will start to work together to get rid of the increasing threat? Who knows.

The dragons are obviously intelligent, they use champions and powerful magic to corrupt and gather more magic to feed on. They have been portrayed as forces of natures, creatures with basic behaviours. But I think there is more to them than that, and as the story progresses we will start to see what the dragons are truly about.

Silicato.4603:

…However i personally love exploring. And if i have 4 maps, there is no doubt that i will explore less that if i had 10.

4 maps are lacking on exploration entertainment, i will devoure that quick. Even the areas of the map blocked by masteries.
But lets wait, the 25% of the central lair of verdant brink (what we could test on BWE1) is really good imo, so maybe 4 maps is enough, time will tell.

I just preferred 10 rather than 4, thought.

I think the problem people are having with the whole 3-4 maps thing is that they are only thinking 2 dimensionally. Many (if not all) of the 3-4 maps will have more than one layer. This means that technically each map could be the equivalent space of 2-3 maps, just that they will be layered on top of each other rather than side by side. So it may end up being that we get 6-12 maps worth of exploration in the same X and Y footprint of 3-4 maps.

We will just have to wait and see how much exploration there is to do, but I am sure Anet will not disappoint in that regard.

I like the theory of there being a zone for each legendary weapon, maybe a 4th for the back item. Its a possibilty.

As to the zones being average size, that I do not agree with. With each zone having 3 levels, the X and Y dimensions of each zone will not be a true indication of the full size of each zone, as we will need to consider the Z dimension too. My personal opnion is, that while we may only get 3-4 zones, each zone will have a large playable space available, with each space containing a lot of activities to take part in. The physical size of a zone should not be the only factor we consider. The amount of play we get out of each zone should also be an important factor (for me this is the most important factor).

We will be getting 25% of one zone available to us in this BWE, so we will be able to get an idea of the rough size of at least one zone. But my focus will be on how much that 25% entertains me, how many things it gives me to do and how much there is to explore and discover. I really don’t care how long it takes my character to run from one side of the map to the other.

How will I react if it is only 3 zones? That all depends on how good those zones are, and how much they keep me entertained.

I really like the sounds of the masteries and I’m looking forward to seeing how it effects my progression through the zones and such. However, like others, if the auto-loot thing is what I think it is (an auto pick up, so no need to press a button), then I really think this needs to be added as an already unlocked option for everyone, regardless of whether you have HoT or not. A QoL feature should never be blocked behind a paywall or progression mechanic. That just sounds obsurd to me.

It’s like unlocking the ability to rebind your keys or unlocking the ability to turn with your mouse instead of using the keyboard. Its not content, its not an activity, its just a way to control your character’s ability to pick up rewards. It should not be a mastery unlock IMO.

My only hope for this particular mastery unlock is that there is more to it than a simple auto pick up upgrade. If that is all it is, then that would be a bit disappointing. It’s not enough to upset me or stop me playing the game of course, because that would be just as obsurd. But I would find it a bit daft to have to unlock such a thing.

I have wanted something like this for a while too. I can get behind the idea of having two new equipment slots, for the two buff types, plus with an accompanying F key button for each (maybe F6 & F7).

I’d also like to see a toy slot (with F8 button) for quick access to your most used musical instrument, costume brawl item, mini pet, kite, mount, SAB boombox, etc..

And lastly, I’d like to see a button that summons an emote panel (with buttons for all the emotes) that acts like a drop down/pop up menu (depending on where it appears from), that auto hides when you move or perform other actions.

Even if we did not have keys bound to use the above, it would be good to have access to a quick button we could click to use these things, without having to open our inventory or typing in chat. I can continue living without them, but they would be nice QoL features.

I have a few things planned:

First, try out Shiro in the mists pvp lobby to find a good weapon and legend combo to go with it. I’ll then test run it in some stronghold matches.

Second, try out the dragonhunter and reaper elite specs, again in the mists and pvp matches.

Third, have a quick play about in the mists with the Tempest and Chronomancer, to see how they feel. I am more keen on the draginhunter and reaper, so they will likely get more playtime, but I want to try them all out.

Fourth, after I have decided which of the above I find the most fun, I will take it to the new HoT PvE zone and muck about there for a while.

Lastly, after the BWE, I will jump on the forums to give some feedback on what I tried.

A yoyo

/15chars

sebradle.7034:

I think a lot of people miss that point about elite specs. Also it’s so interesting to see that we have so many ninja historians on these forums.

The elite specs are supposed to fill capability/playstyle/role gaps in the profession, not change them completely. They will have their own theme, which could be different to the base prof, but I doubt they will be so different you will not associate them with the base prof. It seems likely the elite prof for the thief will still be acrobatic and still utilitize the shadows in some way, but we won’t know for sure until it is revealed.

As to the comment about there being ‘so many’ ninja historians, that sounds like a dig to me. If so, what are you trying to achieve with it and is it really necessary?

I am not so keen on this idea. To get max direct damage output you need to invest in 3 stat types (pow, pre & fer). To get max condi damage output you also need to invest in 3 stat types (condi dam, pre & pow/tough (depending on your set up)).

The same should be similar for defensive and supportive builds. If you lump healing power into vitality, players only need to invest in 1 stat to get a massive boost to their survival, and on some professions that would be too strong.

A better way to improve healing power would be to adjust all healing related skills, and regen, to scale better with healing power.

So, I have been thinking recently about how certain content (such as dungeons and WvW) feels like it is lacking something. For a while I thought maybe it is lacking tougher mobs/mechanics in dungeons or lacking more objectives in WvW. And while these things would likely improve those areas of the game, I cannot help feel that even with those things there would still be something missing. And that lacking something, in my opinion, is solid characters.

What I mean by this is players, and NPC’s, not being able to stand inside each other. In other words not being able to occupy the same space. If players and NPCs were made solid, I believe it would improve the game in the following ways:

- It will provide a more natural limit to how many players can be effected by aoe fields, without needing an arbitrary number to limit things.
– It means you cannot get a silly amounts of players all standing on one spot (a totally ludicrous sight in my opinion), which in turn would force other tactics to be developed in WvW and dungeons. Currently the ‘all stack on one spot for might’ tactic beats most content. If players were forced to spread out, this stacking tactic would be reduced in potency and players would have to learn new ways to tackle content. More coordination would be required between groups and it would reduce the effectiveness of blobbing.
– It makes player characters feel more solid, instead of feeling like ghosts. This is only really an aesthetics thing, but I think this change would improve the overall immersion for some, myself included.
– It would naturally limit how many melee attackers can reach and attack a target, as they would have to move around other attackers to get to a free spot that is in range. It would also remove the need to program AI to space out around the player, as they would naturally do this because of the need to path around other mobs. Not only that, but tanky players can use tactics such as body blocking to protect the back line and control the movement of foes.

To me the biggest advantage from this change would be an increase in tactical options, in all game modes. Things like body blocking (which we used to have in GW1) and natural stacking limits (forcing seperate stacking groups, and encouraging parties to form up for different roles and to coordinate more with each other) would increase the challenge and provide more ways to battle each other, and the mobs.

Now I know this suggestion comes with its own problems, such as high resource costs to implement and players griefing others, by blocking them into one spot. However, I feel the pay off would be more than worth it. And regarding the potential griefing, I have seen games resolve this by implementing a kind of squeeze past mechanic, preventing players from blocking each other in.

So, how I think this should work is as follows:

- You can move past other players (visibly), by performing a kind of squeeze past animation. Or perhaps a mutual squeeze past animation both players perform, making it appear like you are both moving out of each others way. In reality the player model moves through the other player, much like it does now but with the below additions. This will prevent players from blocking you in place. Of course, you will not be able to move past enemies, this will only allow you to pass allied characters.
- If the player stops in a spot where there is no room (it is already occupied by another player/NPC), after a very brief pause the player will be moved to the nearest free spot. They can still move past other players, even squeezing into a crowd, but cannot force someone out of their spot. You would still, for example, be able to squeeze past players to get to, and talk to, an NPC, but once you stop you will be moved back to a free spot.
– All talk and ‘keep menu open’ ranges, for all vendors, would need to be increased to prevent crowded locations making it difficult to speak to surrounded vendors. To be honest though, I have not yet seen an NPC surround by so many players that this would be a problem, but it wouldn’t hurt to add this to ensure this doesn’t become a problem.

I understand it would likely take a lot of effort and resources to implement this, especially the animations and the squeeze past mechanic. But I feel the game as a whole would improve because of it, and for that reason I feel it would be worth doing.

Anyway, that’s my suggestion. Let me know what you think. Do you think it would improve the game, or cause too many problems? Do you have a better or simpler suggestion for implementing this? I’d be interested to see what other people think about this.

stof.9341:

Or ANet could just let you keep the weapon equipped but dummy out all the skills it gives.

I think this is likely what will happen. You will keep the weapon equipped but will not be able to use any of the skills.