Guild Wars 2

Fixed a bug in dungeon speed-clearing code. Players should no longer experience reward reductions without triggering the speed-clearing debuff.

Dungeons
Crucible of Eternity

Reduced the difficulty of creatures and bosses, particularly health and armor.

Citadel of Flame

Fixed exploits that allowing players to speed clear paths of this dungeon.
Reduced difficulty of the Searing Effigy.

Arah

Fixed map exploit that was allowing players to speed-clear paths of this dungeon.
Fixed a blocking bug in story mode.

As stated in other posts about the same subject, after today’s patch you should be able to.

we’re aware of this issue, and today’s patch should see improved reliability in the DR system.

The fix is simply to have Magg run back to the door.

In general, people will do whatever they can when they are backed into a corner. It’s just part of what humans do when faced with adversity – we use our intellect, creativity, and ingenuity to find solutions to problems. That event is incredibly difficult, and it’s not shocking that players will use whatever tools and techniques they can to get through it.

As a dev, there is a brief moment when I hear about an exploit and think to myself “Clever. Wish I’d have thought of that.” before I enter fix-it mode. I’m more upset at my failure to anticipate an exploit than I am about the person who finds it.

Thanks for the report!

We try to be as transparent as possible with our changes. Some things, like closing exploits, we aren’t always going to post about. You never want to directly put down someone’s idea though, or point out specific people since that can have unforeseen consequences (ahem).
But yes, there are good player suggestions that we outright implement without any tweaking whatsoever. “crystals are too hard to kill” being an example. Yup, they’re a bit on the tough side for how many there are at any given time – nerfing the toughness seems appropriate. That’s gonna happen on Monday though, but I felt it was a solid example

Red Falcon.8257:

If you lack communications players complain, but if you talk too much players will use your words against you.
There is no winning beside maybe letting out informations that are confirmed to be happening soon.

Indeed. I can say this though, we recognize failures not just in random occasions, but in total systems and dungeons in general. The great thing about an MMO/Live game, is that we can change it for the better. We have plans to change things based on feedback, and we are finalizing those plans right now. As soon as we are done and have a solid actionable plan, we’ll let you all know what that is, and what you can expect for the future of dungeons.

Hellkaiser.6025:

Would it be too much to ask of you currently for a general “no promises being made” update into what you guys are seemingly getting from the community in general so far? would be interesting to hear which way you guys are leaning towards currently as to future development changes to dungeons which have been the most controversial aspect of the game for many

We have plans, and we’ll be commenting on them very soon. I wish I could have a “no promises being made” thread where we talk about things, but the unfortunate aspect of a dev revealing plans and intentions is that in itself is a promise. And we may say something, build it, try it, and then iterate on it to the point it is not what we said, and that tarnishes credibility we had in claiming something, even though the system it became might be measurably better. The danger is in systems that change that aren’t easily measured as better or worse, that are different from our initial assertions and expectations.

Godchi.9072:

I wish your gw2 support email was as responsive and efficient as you!

I’m sitting at my computer working on things between posts (and sometimes spending too much time posting!), but it’s not my job. I’m actually building content and fixing issues right now.

Our support team is forced to appraise each ticket and find solutions. I pick and choose threads and occasionally post in them, so naturally I can communicate a lot quicker than them on issues I am knowledgeable of within this sub-forum.

Do not leave the dungeon without collecting your reward first. CoE is a bit odd apart from other dungeons in that it actually throws you out, and I’ll be looking into that as well. Maybe add a conversation about interacting with the teleporter in order to get out instead of just shooting you out when you’re on the platform, however the core issue is simply that the reward got hosed by leaving the dungeon.

As for the PTS, I am not going to comment on that at the moment until we have actionable information to give.

Threads like these have the potential to get a bit volatile. Please remember to provide constructive criticism with each other, and foster dialogue over name calling.

That being said, we are indeed careful about analyzing what the feedback really means. Everyone has legit feedback to give, no matter how it is constructed – part of our job as Developers is to look at feedback from any sort, and attempt to glean the essence of their feedback.
Sometimes it is simple: This boss hurts my face and can kill me in one shot with his Flameburst attack, and there’s no way to dodge or block it!
Sometimes it’s rather complex: Nerf FlameBurster boss in CoF he’s totally OP!

Both are just examples of what could be the same issue, and both have merit. The second example would usually only draw a cursory glance which can lead a reader to the assumption that a group just got rolled and couldn’t defeat a boss… but the first example is more indicative that there might be a problem with some numbers and balance.

It’s part of our job to read your feedback, investigate things, and make a decision on what we find. Some feedback is harder to glean actionable items from, but that’s part of what we do.

vicwolf.7862:

I think we have to assume at this point that getting 1 token for a 2 hour instance run is intended. The devs have adamantly refused to acknowledge that this is a bug.

I admitted it was a bug a few posts up.

The bug is that the reward was messed up when you left the dungeon, not that you left the dungeon by standing on the teleporter when it activated.

We have identified an issue with the DR system that is causing the bug of rewards being incorrectly diminished. We’re actively working on the situation in anticipation for Monday’s scheduled patch.

We have identified an issue with the DR system that is causing the bug of rewards being incorrectly diminished. We’re actively working on the situation in anticipation for Monday’s scheduled patch.

Good idea, Crovack, but currently there is no tech to support that. We’ll weigh this as one of the options when our resources are freed up to work on this subject. Thanks!

yeah, so, I just ran into QA and had them verify this. It is indeed facepalm worthy. We’ll have tech on this right away. It had previously worked the same way that story rewards worked – in that you could leave the story instance and collect your full reward afterwards.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. Sorry it happened

The reward screen shouldn’t have disappeared entirely, but the entire story of that path is that there is an experimental teleporter that you are choosing to escape the dungeon with. By standing on the platform, it behaves as though you are walking through a zone portal.
You also are only booted if you are standing directly on the teleporter part of the structure – did you experience your entire group being teleported out of the dungeon all at the same time, regardless of where you all were standing?

Not yet beyond memory. We’re looking into tech solutions for displaying the paths you have run, but our resources are pooled more heavily in fixing bugs, exploits, and other issues before features like this will be worked on.

As a note though, I have brought this very thing up many times. I’d like to see a way for it to work with our achievement system without making a massive slew of achievements that clutter up that UI with even more information.

Tenicord.9803:

How can this not be priority #1. Ask Blizzard how they do it, anything. Instead your adjusting tokens, nerfing dungeons for people who run it too fast and all kinds of things while the majority of people can’t even get a group into the same instance??

We have multiple teams working on different things. In the case of this issue, we have programmers working on this solution since it is purely based on background things.

Whereas tokens and exploit fixes/nerfing/buffing is largely a design thing with code support for things we currently aren’t capable of (see: DR system). We’re actively working on an assortment of issues, and I guarantee you that the party functionality is top priority for a team of very dedicated folks.

This has been addressed in the sticky threads at the top of the Dungeon forum, but I will address it here as well to save you time.

The Diminished Returns system is currently bugged. We are working on a fix.

We’re currently not anticipating a hotfix for this problem. It is more likely to be fixed during the normal Monday patch.

We’ve posted in several of these threads at this point.

To reiterate what we’ve said in other posts: we’re very aware of this problem and are actively working on the group system. I personally hate this issue with the fiery passion of a thousand suns, and can’t wait for it to be fixed.

we are aware of this and are actively working on a solution. Expect it in the very next patch!

ref.8196:

Well hold on here.

Nobody actually knows the amount of DR the system currently puts on the players. There is a bug at the moment which is screwing things up, so before you all start going in to a rant, lets just wait for the bug fix first?

Correct. People can speculate about the timing involved and how it works – we will not be divulging this information since it opens the system up to people finding ways around it. While we are confident in the system, we are doubly confident that people are amazing at finding holes in systems and breaking them.
The system is currently bugged, and is treating people unfairly. We’re actively working on it.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

He said that you can be fast, but only be fast in one dungeon within a certain period of time. If I want to do all 3 paths of a dungeon; assuming I’m good at them I’ll be punished if I do the other two paths too quickly after the first path?

If I interpreted that correctly; that is beyond pathetic.

You have concerns and questions, which is why I am answering them to the best of my ability without divulging the full mechanics of our DR system.
To answer your most recent question, No, you would not honestly get punished with our DR system for that. Hitting the same path 2-3 times in rapid succession would result in DR influence, but hitting different paths quickly won’t initially draw the influence of the DR system. That being said, there is a limit to the amount of paths you can run in a period of time before global DR kicks in.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

So basically what Robert is saying; is that we can only be good at one dungeon.

… No comment.

You can be good at all dungeons. Just don’t run them back to back in rapid succession.

A bit of misinformation I am seeing in the threads is that if you complete a single dungeon in ten minutes, we’re going to punish you for it, as though we are punishing you for being “too good” at it. This is not true.

Our DR system combats repeated runs, and has a global presence as well effecting other dungeons. So if you run multiple 10 minute dungeons, back to back then you are going to get hit with the DR system no matter which paths you choose.

However the notion that your group will be punished for clearing any single dungeon in any amount of time is incorrect. Running through multiple speed clears back to back will result in the DR system influencing your rewards.

I have updated the Patch update page to reflect this information.

A bit of misinformation I am seeing in the threads is that if you complete a single dungeon in ten minutes, we’re going to punish you for it, as though we are punishing you for being “too good” at it. This is not true.

Our DR system combats repeated runs, and has a global presence as well effecting other dungeons. So if you run multiple 10 minute dungeons, back to back then you are going to get hit with the DR system no matter which paths you choose.

However the notion that your group will be punished for clearing any single dungeon in any amount of time is incorrect. Running through multiple speed clears back to back will result in the DR system influencing your rewards.

A bit of misinformation I am seeing in the threads is that if you complete a single dungeon in ten minutes, we’re going to punish you for it, as though we are punishing you for being “too good” at it. This is not true.

Our DR system combats repeated runs, and has a global presence as well effecting other dungeons. So if you run multiple 10 minute dungeons, back to back then you are going to get hit with the DR system no matter which paths you choose.

However the notion that your group will be punished for clearing any single dungeon in any amount of time is incorrect. Running through multiple speed clears back to back will result in the DR system influencing your rewards.

Please visit the sticky threads for info on this topic: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-Patch-9-25-UPDATE-9-26/first#post262636

We are currently aware of a bug in the DR system not working properly on some players. We’re actively looking into it and trying to fix it.

Thanks to the community’s feedback and posting of their activities, we have uncovered an issue with the DR system. Please see this topic for more information:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-Patch-9-25-UPDATE-9-26/first#post262636

Thanks to the community’s feedback and posting of their activities, we have uncovered an issue with the DR system. Please see this topic for more information:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-Patch-9-25-UPDATE-9-26/first#post262636

Thanks to the community’s feedback and posting of their activities, we have uncovered an issue with the DR system. Please see this topic for more information:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-Patch-9-25-UPDATE-9-26/first#post262636

Thanks to the community’s feedback and posting of their activities, we have uncovered an issue with the DR system. Please see this topic for more information:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-Patch-9-25-UPDATE-9-26/first#post262636

JonPeters.5630:

I just wanted to update everyone on where we stand with this. So far we have found a single bug with the system that is causing certain players to get stuck in a state of reduced rewards without actually exploiting. A fix for this has already been made and is being tested locally now. We are going to do more significant testing on this new version but we also believe it is more bulletproof to begin with. Please keep posting data as these cases are somewhat rare and are hard for us to find with internal testing but seem to be exposed quickly when thousands of people are playing the dungeons. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-Patch-Discussion-9-25-1/page/6#post262602

All rewards are susceptible to our code that is dealing with people who are speed clearing dungeons. This means that if you are speed clearing and then play some new chain for the first time it may not reward the full 60 tokens. If you find yourself getting less rewards consider whether or not your rate of dungeon completion is extremely high.

Jon

Pikafan.3792:

No, that was clearly the first dungeon I ran that day, after dailies(the chest daily quest is the benchmark I go by to tell if a new day has passed) were clearly reset.

The dungeon was done in 45 minutes, this is more or less accurate as I always set down a Peach Pie Tray for a 1 hour buff the moment the group enters the dungeon and there were 14 minutes left after picking up end credit.

Something is not right here.

I’d agree with that information, something isn’t right about you getting hit by the DR system if it was your very first run of the day from any dungeon path. We’ve seen reports of this happening to some players, and we’ll continue working on the system to find and resolve problems. Posting your issue about it helps us narrow the search fields down on what might actually be causing problems. I’ll PM you here in a bit asking for some more information that I can pass along to our programmers.

ChairGraveyard.2967:

I agree with you guys, I think we either need to be able to easily check if we’re going to be screwed out of dungeon rewards, or the DR system just needs to be removed completely.

We are working on a way to better communicate that you are being influenced by the DR system, so it doesn’t come as a surprise when you get it.

Pikafan.3792:

So, pray tell, how does a player get 45 tokens from a single dungeon clear?

Diminishing rewards on the first time of the day running that particular dungeon path?

You are being impacted by the DR system for your path as a result of having completed several other paths too quickly, before going to that specific path. Because you were being influenced by other the DR system, the 60 tokens you earned were diminished to 45.
Can I assume you did a few other paths and got 60 tokens for those?

In the event an exploit happens that allows players to clear different dungeon paths quicker than expected, the DR system also kicks in.

Jim Travakh.7495:

While I can agree with that sentiment in some ways, is it intended for the first run of any given explorable path on a day to yield anything other than 60 tokens? Because that was a bug many of my groups encountered with inconsistent rewards on completion.

What we’re seeing in a lot of these cases, is that players actually have beaten the path the day before, so they aren’t getting the first run bonus of the day, since it hasn’t rolled over yet to the next day (the rollover happens at 5pm pacific time).
For instance:

-It’s 10pm at night, you beat CoF Magg chain. You go to bed.
-Patch happens at Midnight.
-Wake up at 8am. Log in, get new patch.
-Run Magg’s chain, see diminished returns.

In that case, the new ‘day’ hasn’t rolled over yet because it’s not 5pm. So you get hit by the diminished returns.

Not saying this is the answer to ALL cases, but it has proven to be the answer of many of the cases. After 5pm today, when everything is rolled over, we’re hoping to see things settle out with the DR system.

My Opinion: the day should roll over at the same time we push patches. I’m going to talk to someone about this…

The system is not intended to punish players who manage to beat a chain very quickly through their skill. But if that group then decided to start speed clearing that path, it’s supposed to diminish their returns.
It’s use is as more of an insurance policy against future exploits or bugs.

It is currently not our plan to outline how the DR system works, because doing as such provides those intending on exploiting the system with bits of information they could use to circumvent it.

If you are seeing issues, please post the dungeon/path you chose, and how long it took you to do that path, and when the last time you ran a dungeon was. These will help uus determine what might be going wrong.

we’re aware of the problem with groups getting split up trying to get into a dungeon. We’re working on this issue and will hopefully have it resolved soon. We appreciate your patience.

Diminished Returns system.

SuperPringles.4321:

Got him to 25%, same walrusing thing. Seriously, otter Anet. If you want us to run all paths, don’t make them so whaleing hard. Penguin this.

Of course, it may be that there is a mechanic that we are missing, but we also tried every-sealing-thing like LoSing, burning crystals at the last phase, et cetera. That is bullkitten.

The only possible way I can see is to permanently put poison on the boss, but Anet has also stated that you don’t need a particular class makeup to complete a dungeon. So what the dolphin is this bullshrimp then?!

5/5 would read again.

When people started posting about him, I looked into his skills and found he does need a few updates to certain things that weren’t working properly or displaying properly. Those will be in next week.
Our QA group, Alphas, and even groups on Live are able to defeat this boss, and I’ve seen those groups have vastly different class makeup.

He’s hard, but not impossible. Explorable dungeons were billed as being hard. Some things are unfairly difficult though, and we are actively trying to balance these things. Bringing them to our attention always helps with speeding that up

We will be locking this thread soon to divert posting of the new patch notes to this location:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-Patch-Discussion-9-25-1/first#post248216

Thank you.

Discuss the new patch for 9/25 here.

Thanks for reporting this.

1. on the Reward section is a bit lacking in hard numbers and facts that you all no doubt have. We won’t be posting the way this system works due to it being an anti-exploit system, so that people won’t easily find ways to circumvent it.

If you are experiencing Diminished Returns, it is due to clearing dungeons too quickly. If you feel you are unfairly being punished by our DR system, please post about it and we will review it when possible to see if the system is working as intended. The more info you give us the better.

Hey Folks,

here’s an outline of the patch notes for dungeons this week. The full patch notes can be found here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Update-Notes-September-25th-2012/

Dungeons
General
• Updated vendors in the Ascalonian Catacombs and Caudecus’s Manor to sell level 80 versions of their unique skins rather than level 60 and 70. Players who purchased the level 60 and 70 versions will soon be given the opportunity to upgrade those to level 80 without having to use transmutation stones.
Citadel of Flame
• Fixed an exploit in Magg’s chain that was allowing players to skip the entire dungeon and still be rewarded.
• In Magg’s chain, if Magg happens to die in the lava field, he’ll teleport himself to the start of the area just outside it.
• In Magg’s chain, Magg must be much closer to things to draw their initial aggro. This only affects the escort to the magmacyte rock.
Caudecus’s Manor
• Fixed an exploit that was allowing players to skip content.
Honor of the Waves
• Fixed a bug in the Butcher’s chain that prevented a boss from spawning.
Arah
• Fixed a blocking issue.
Ascalonian Catacombs
• Fixed blocking bugs in Detha’s chain.

Dungeon Rewards
We’ve made some significant updates to dungeon rewards. I wanted to try and clarify them here. All of these changes have been the result of an original exploit which was letting players receive upwards of 20 levels by completing a single dungeon run. We initially closed this exploit, which caused some new problems. The result is this new system which should increase dungeon rewards for players who play though them normally but help curb inflation of rewards for those who are using exploitative methods to farm them.

1) Dungeon tokens are now rewarded at the end of an explorable chain. This was done to stop players from repeatedly entering a chain and farming the first boss that dropped tokens rather than playing the entire chain. At some point in the near future, we will make up for this by making dungeon tokens a rare drop so that even players who are not completing a chain can make partial progress toward the rewards.
2) Dungeons reward 20 tokens for completion and now reward an additional 40 tokens for the first time they are completed each day. This means that if players can complete all 3 chains of a dungeon in a day, they’ll receive a total of 180 tokens, which is enough to purchase some of the smaller rewards.
3) Dungeon tokens should be account bound. This will allow players to have a single character farm tokens for their other characters.
4) Last week, to limit the most extreme cases of dungeon speed-clearing, we introduced a system to limit rewards for rapidly repeating dungeon clears. However, a bug in that system caused it to impact more players than intended. This week, we’re updating the system to not impact clearing different chains of the same dungeon. We’ll continue to evaluate this system in coming weeks.

Zale.9645:

Please fix the magmacyte and bomb planting parts of route 2, Robert. We can’t kill that many silver mobs that fast and Magg has no regard for his own life.

Tonight’s patch will see some better behavior from him, and some changes to make that event a bit more manageable. Magg dying in the lava, for instance, will get fixed.