The nerf was definitely needed, but the fact that this went live to begin with evidences a problem internally that doesn’t bode well for Rangers.
It didn’t even take a super experienced Ranger to notice the ability to stack perma quickness within a few hours of the patch being live.
The fact that NOBODY noticed it internally tells you very few of them know the Ranger class that well and they must do almost no testing of changes prior to these patches going live.
In one respect, you have to give Anet kudos because overall the patch was pretty good…especially if they did limited testing…but it’s boneheaded mistakes like this that make you scratch your head and wonder how on earth it got live.
I can’t say I’m an expert on this map…although nobody probably is yet.
However, I think the Treb self-repair is probably an overall good thing.
The matches I’ve played seem to be more balanced anecdotally and not simple rush jobs.
The treb self repairing adds more defensive strategy options for more time in the game. Overall, this is probably a good thing even though you can always point out scenarios where it’s not.
Watch how many whining PU Mesmers stop running PU because of this “nerf”…NONE
It’s not even that big a nerf if you work out the math and it’s FAR better than many other profession’s grandmaster traits.
This kind of thread just shows that some people will whine about ANYTHING.
900 range on the axe is a big deal, so that’s the LAST thing you should be complaining about.
Record a few matches playing with dagger and watch the replays. There are numerous times you get ZERO dps because the target is out of range.
The new, larger increase in range with axe versus dagger/GS range will help offset the lower DPS of the axe. You can hit targets with it more often and with less positioning risk.
It’s a good option to now have based on your playstyle.
In fact, I can see some people trying GS/Axe power builds because you now have a weapon for range and one for up close. It’s too early to say if this will work, but it definitely wouldn’t be viable without these changes.
That being said…the 20% increase in dmg they are giving Thief pistol is insane. 20% on an entire range weapon is HUGE!
Thus, I can see why people might be jealous of a range weapon doing that much damage from afar…considering how much damage they can also do up close.
However, I suspect this is something that will get nerfed pretty fast versus something Necros should be asking for on the axe.
Necros are actually one of the most overall balanced classes in the game with certain strengths and clear weaknesses. It’s just a few other classes that are over-budget and sometimes get ridiculous buffs.
I don’t understand why any profession should be able to press a single button and completely delete an entire build’s setup, putting it on full CD without any traits taking effect. How is this even a discussion? If Moa morph put every utility for every build not only on full CD but also erasing their effects from the game the instant it lands the skill would be completely broken and no one would debate this change, yet against AI builds this is worth a discussion? Furthermore, this was a known function that was then added onto Engineer in AoE form.
It makes absolutely no sense, and I guarantee if this wasn’t AI builds we wouldn’t even have to talk about it.
I have to agree. It was too oppressive BEFORE they added yet another class recently with the ability to MOA and ruin all your related utilities/traits with ONE BUTTON.
It was absurd at DAY 1 of the game, but for 3+years, MM Necros had to deal with this ridiculousness and also deal with pathetic AI for minions too.
Now, they finally see the obvious problem with transformations wiping out an entire build, but they only fix elites which aren’t even used by a MM…smh
The excuse given for the change not affecting other transforms doesn’t make sense. Even the presenters on the Twitch thought the change would obviously impact MOA. Who makes this change and ONLY applies it to elites not used by a MM???
Didn’t the original comments from Evan have all these stats about PvP population being better than ever/growing/etc?
If so, I can see why it was edited out because you can’t justify matchmaking issues and various decisions made for PvP by looking strictly at population statistics in PvP.
Right now…PvP is flooded with a bunch of new players trying the game which indicates ZERO justification for anything other than marketing/free-to-play/hype.
Right after every major patch you see tons of people log on and try it out….Does this “population increase” prove anything? Of course not. Who would use such a statistic to justify mathmaking and other decisions made in PvP over the last few years?
The stats they should look at is…how many long time players are playing more now than a year ago…two years ago…etc. How many of these “new players” are sticking around more than a month/2 months/etc.?
More sophisticated statistics are required to justify the matchmaking and other decisions made in PvP over the last few years…so I’m glad this primitive and anecdotal response was edited.
All I can say from my perspective is that the game is missing a ton of long-time and high level players. You can see this in tournaments where the same few players win all the time because so many other good players left.
In my case, I tried Ranked que a couple weeks ago and saw the exact same thing as the OP…but even worse.
I was matched up in a RANKED que against a premade that included 2 Abjured and NONE of my team was even in a group. Think about that for a second…The ONLY way that total mismatch is possible is if there are literally no players playing the game (or none with high enough MMR to match with a premade AND Abured).
That kind of matchup should NEVER happen during primetime if the game ACTUALLY had a healthy PvP population as alluded to by Anet.
BTW, I would post screenshots, but too lazy…Anet is welcome to prove me wrong though by looking at my recent ranked activity and specifically that matchup on 9-12.
Robert, the best solution to fixing the pathing issues with GS5 is to do away with the pull.
Change it to a root plus swiftness.
This would negate the programming difficulty of trying to fix pulls over terrain and the unintended functionality/failure of the skill so often. Right now, the failure % is so bad that the skill is worth very little on any budget for balance.
By making it a root/swiftness, it also allows the necro to use it defensively as well as offensively…which is a common hallmark of slot 4/5 of a weapon. It would also give Reaper ONE way to get some small level of mobility on a reasonably long cooldown that also requires tradeoffs (i.e. use GS5 for swiftness only and you put it on cooldown for it’s other uses).
With this change, you basically save yourself a lot of programming to fix pathing issues with the current version while also providing a more reliable option to balance for necros.
It’s not the algorithm…it’s the fact that the game is dead and nobody is playing…no algorithm can match things that aren’t available.
I tried RANKED today and was immediately put in a group with ALL solo players against a full premade that included Abjured.
Think about that one second…How is that even possible?
Not even Hotjoin could put you in a worse possible matchup.
No algorithm could be that bad unless there just aren’t players available to do a fair match.
Of course, it was a waste of time to even play the game. It was a miserable waste of time queing and playing.
There are repercussions for bad decisions (i.e. mixing premades with solo), ignoring PvP, and poor internal testing to identify things like d/d eles.
It snowballs, and we are seeing it now where very few people enjoy waiting for a match and then getting something so absurd for “matchmaking”.
That should never happen unless there are ONLY 10 players queing ranked. Pvp may well be dead but it still have more than 10 players playing I bet. What I suspect is happening is that solo que players are used to give the few premades fast que times. MMR is not even used in match making in 1/2 or more of the matches just so that they can give the premades less than 5 min que times. If they had shown everyone’s mmr this would be come clear and everyone who isn’t in the 10 wts teams would cry murder and quit. That’s why they don’t show mmr .
I agree it SHOULDN’T happen, but it did (I have screenshots).
If it was due to the algorithm and not too few players, then that is even worse. The game wasn’t even competitive, so it’s not like they matched up a ton of high mmr solo players to face a full premade.
The bottom line is that THEIR algorithm matched a team with all players in a group AND included Abjured players against a team of ALL solo players.
Any way you slice it…it’s a joke and further proof of the bad decision it was to mix solo and team que.
Whoever internally convinced Anet into thinking an algorithm could compensate for team/solo imbalances should get either fired or a Nobel prize for a successful Jedi Mind Trick.
It’s weird to see a game design company just throw up their hands and totally delete programming versus try to fix things.
It’s especially odd considering other decisions made my Anet.
They will allow gross imbalances to go on for ages in RANKED pvp (i.e. hambow, eles on 2 occasions, turret engies, etc.) yet totally delete something that had small imbalances underwater. BTW, underwater combat only constituted a portion of that map, and it’s a map they could have simply been excluded from RANKED if they didn’t feel like fixing it.
Why on earth were they worried about imbalances (that are fixable btw) on an unranked map…yet consistently do little to nothing for long periods about balance on RANKED maps???
Why even put underwater combat in the game if you are going to quasi admit it’s imbalanced, and you’re not interested in fixing it???
Why spend all this effort on expansion “new abilities” and leave something already fresh and innovative like underwater combat flawed???
This decision is even worse that forcing premades and solo players to play in one ranked que versus separate/voluntary ques. Poor logic and decisions by Anet has really hurt the popularity and fun of the game.
It’s not the algorithm…it’s the fact that the game is dead and nobody is playing…no algorithm can match things that aren’t available.
I tried RANKED today and was immediately put in a group with ALL solo players against a full premade that included Abjured.
Think about that one second…How is that even possible?
Not even Hotjoin could put you in a worse possible matchup.
No algorithm could be that bad unless there just aren’t players available to do a fair match.
Of course, it was a waste of time to even play the game. It was a miserable waste of time queing and playing.
There are repercussions for bad decisions (i.e. mixing premades with solo), ignoring PvP, and poor internal testing to identify things like d/d eles.
It snowballs, and we are seeing it now where very few people enjoy waiting for a match and then getting something so absurd for “matchmaking”.
Anet has let bad sports ruin the game.
In hotjoin, you have a core group of pseudo “heroes” who team stack, quit/spectate, team swap to steamroll new players to make themselves feel better than they really are.
In ranked/unranked, you just have fails who quit at the first sign of adversity.
That being said…neglecting to balance eles and ridiculousness of having to play against builds like PU Mesmers has made the game less fun for everyone…even the ones who stay and play the full game.
It definitely needs a cooldown reduction. IMass Invis has a shorter cooldown than this elite, which speaks volumes. It’s FAR MORE helpful both in team and solo fights. Also, it can’t be dodged or wasted like CTB can.
The cast time is also ridiculous for an elite that doesn’t do a whole lot and has a long cooldown.
This is more than just embarrassing for Anet…it’s embarrassing for players that choose Ele.
Most players don’t mind being OP, but, when it’s this absurd, the tide turns to shame for even playing the profession.
How is it possible that Anet was able to do quick “balance” changes to Ranger and Necro 30pt traits soon after the recent patch…eventually got to Engineer and Mesmer exploits…but STILL has done NOTHING to Ele???
It’s too late anyway. You can’t even get a full hotjoin anymore, much less a reasonable que.
They had a perfect opportunity with this last patch. Problems were expected, but some things were so ridiculous that it evidenced almost ZERO internal testing.
The fact that some of these ridiculous things still aren’t fixed is why nobody plays anymore. The game is corrupted by rage quitting, no rewards, allowed bugs/OP things that never get fixed.
ele and guardian just “BURING” that kill someone, need no skills, just bur burn and burn ,
is this BBQ War 2? learn to play? you’re kidding right?
may be we should start a new thread on how much burn damage we managed to take before biting the dust xD
Gotta love the damage per total amount of hits…
26 Poison ticks? 3k damage.
30 Torment ticks? 4.5k damage.
43 Bleed ticks? 8.6k damage.
49 burn ticks? Pirceless… Oh, I mean 50.7k damage…
This pretty much says it all.
How on earth does something so overbudget compared to other conditions go unnoticed during internal testing…much less a month after the patch???
This type of behavior for a skill is beyond ridiculous, even if the person it happens to is not skilled.
In many cases, it’s not even due to a lack of skill…it’s a graphics thing.
What’s even more hilarious is that you get blinded ON TOP OF the 47 stacks of burning if you make a mistake…how on earth can someone say this is “intended” behavior???
Even better question…How on earth does something like this not get fixed during internal testing?
(edited by SPESHAL.9106)
Anet deserves credit for addressing Mesmers and Rampage, which were 2 of the 3 most obvious things to fix.
Not sure why they didn’t fix Eles given how many teams are running two of them versus other professions, but maybe the “fix” is more complicated.
IMO, the issue with Eles is that they have so many passive/powerful traits that synergize too well with things like Burning, Might building, etc. This turns a profession that otherwise would be balanced, into a juggernaut in far too many scenarios compared to others.
Even a niche trait like Diamond Skin will give a benefit to an Ele in almost ANY fight, whereas certain GM traits for other classes only give their benefit in much fewer or limited scenarios.
For example, if Unholy Sanctuary, Call of the Wild, Rampage, etc deserved a nerf for their niche benefit in certain scenarios, then things like DS, Evasive Arcana, Stone Heart, Fresh Air, and/or Blinding Ashes need to be looked at…because too many of them are an equal level benefit and proc their “benefit” far more often.
He (or whoever was responsible for the necro) did some good things for sure, but….
He totally went overboard with corruption skill self-condi affliction and has now made all those utilities practically wasted programming. He also did NOTHING to fix the Flesh Golem AI, which was the most broken and obvious thing that needed fixing since release.
As for Mesmer, the changes were a complete case of going WAY overboard. The risk/reward equation for Mesmers is FAR different for other dps classes. It’s not even close or debatable. In fact, not fixing it yet is even more indicting of the developer’s skills.
Everyone can understand making mistakes with the huge volume of changes made. However, still not fixing something so obvious to everyone else doesn’t evidence anything positive right now. Maybe a great fix will come, but it’s already cost the game lots of players.
Anet is only hurting themselves at this point.
They did a great job initially with the patch…seeing that they only messed up a few things despite making lots of changes.
Unfortunately, those few things are pretty obvious to anyone who plays the game (i.e. mesmers, burning, and rampage), and they are so ridiculous that they are making more and more people quit.
How many people have switched classes AWAY from Mesmer versus the opposite?… How many warriors DON’T run rampage?…Does anybody with a half a brain not see that burning is an overbudget condition compared to bleeding?
As I’ve said before….Anet is always so close, yet so far, with making PvP great in this game.
Seriously, there can’t be that much debate internally about what is wrong and what needs to be fixed. It doesn’t take a lot either to get these things in line…adjust cooldowns and a few multipliers/synergies and you’re done.
Somebody internally must not be seeing what everyone else sees with Mesmers.
They should at least look at the population stats because my friends list went from full near the patch to now even emptier than before.
Few people like getting insta-gibbed, stunned, from stealth and unable to do anything back even if you survive. Maybe others do or think it makes sense.
Rampage wins out over lich form on everything.
Even a 1vs1.
Rampage can be blinded.
So can lich form.
Rampage cannot be reflected.
Lich form can.The only bonus going for Lich form is it’s ranged, that’s it. But rampage can easily close the gap with just about anything.
People also forget about the most important advantage, which is the lower cooldown by 30 seconds and 33% longer length.
The bigger question is…why does this surprise anyone?
Warriors have been far preferred over Necros in both PvE and PvP for years…even without Rampage playing a factor.
Why would they nerf Lich repeatedly and buff Rampage based on this indisputable record for both professions??? I’ll let others make claims of “preferential treatment”, “poor logic”, or “incompetent development”.
However, I would look at another Necro elite to probably justify all-of-the-above…the Flesh Golem. The AI on this Elite is so poor that any developer would be ashamed in 2001…much less 2015. The fact that NOTHING has been done to fix it despite all the other changes recently made in the game speaks volumes.
They are basically a high school basketball team playing pickup games at the YMCA.
In the grand scheme of things, there are much more talented esports players (i.e. college and pro basketball players to fit the analogy). However, none of them stuck with GW2.
We’re left with a small population fighting in virtually meaningless and rewardless tournaments. Hence, the team stacked with the most experienced and coordinated players wins all the time.
I’m not sure why great NA players didn’t stick with the game, but I assume it had to do with the lack of rewards in the game and the very long lag in addressing balance issues.
When you give a couple professions the ability to almost insta-kill you from stealth…plus give some professions the ability to escape…this rune is almost required for high level play.
The insta-burst people use it because they can still do their insane damage with the rune, plus they get to survive/escape almost any encounter.
The non-insta burst people need it just to survive the ridiculous damage they added unnecessarily to a few professions.
You identified the same exact things everyone else has identified as “problem areas”.
Rarely are things to fix so obvious, but, overall, Anet deserves credit for only having these few MAJOR issues to address.
The problem now is…how long is it going to take to fix?
If it’s several more weeks, then I doubt the game will have gained a net plus in players. I’m already seeing my friends list as low as it was pre-patch, and the rage quitting/bandwagon jumping due to burning, mesmers, and rampage is rather high.
It’s been the story of this game since release…they are oh so close to being as good as it gets, but always let 1 or 2 things linger way too long to corrupt things…such as eles, hambow, shoutbow, turrets, etc.
What’s wacky is that something so obscure and minor gets addressed before burning.
How does a completely obvious problem affecting multiple scenarios, multiple traits, and virtually all classes get no attention while something like this does.
Overbudget grandmaster traits and elites like Rampage/Diamond Skin may take time to balance after seeing just how things play out.
However, things like grenade barrage and the ridiculous damage without risk potential of Mesmers has to be addressed asap. These are things that make people quit playing and even leave to other games because nobody likes insta-gib specs in MMOs…especially when the opponent is doing it from stealth and then can’t be hit back.
I would at least give them this week to address the obvious stuff like grenades and Mesmers…a couple more to address burning…and maybe a few more to identify the individual traits like Rampage and Diamond Skin that COULD be overbudget in the new meta.
I dueled a slightly more skilled mesmer than me 8 times on my necro.
it ended 4 wins each.A DRAW.
I think it is pretty even at the moment. and he was even slightly more skilled than I am. I won the first 4, but he adjusted quickly to my build and playstyle and won the next 4 thanks to his superior skills and adaptability.
so really, mesmers are not as terrible as you guys make them out to be.
all their interrupts/stuns? just counter with stability/stun breaks.A traited necro which I am, has a 10sec shroud stunbreak with 1 3sec stability after, and I run 2 stun break utilities.
Really, if mesmers are so much pain, adapt and change your build/playstyle.
So pls stop with the nerf them threads.
Thank you.
You’re starting a thread based on your primitive skills and sample size of 8 duels???
It’s not that 2 random people can’t have duels and lose 50% of the time. The issue (and this goes for ALL MMOs I’ve seen/played) is that you can’t have insta-gib specs if you want people to play. This isn’t a FPS.
They could EASILY adjust the burst of Mesmers, and you will still lose 50% to your friend if not more.
When people can’t even be honest about cheese potential – mesmers, engie grenades, rampage, etc – then you really should play a FPS.
Good report.
The problem is that Diamond Skin is way over-budget for even a Grandmaster.
There are some grandmasters that can give you the feeling of “god mode” maybe 1-3 times a match (like unholy martyr for Necros). However, they are worthless most of the time.
With Diamond Skin, it’s way too effective in almost every battle. Some grandmasters don’t even proc at all in fights and even when they do, they don’t give you the bang for the buck that diamond skin does. Thus, you could either buff all the other grandmasters or nerf diamond skin.
Once they fix mesmers, the engie bugs, and burning…I think necros will be on par with everything else. They actually did a nice job with blood and death magic, such that you can choose a play style and actually feel helpful now.
The problem is that everyone is benchmarking themselves against broken mesmers and engies, and seeing way too much burning damage from eles and guardians.
Rangers have the same issues, if not worse. There’s nothing OP that they got, and they don’t even have signet of suffering to flip some of the OP stuff back.
The damage would be somewhat “livable” if they also were as squishy as Thieves when traited for similar damage.
Right now, Guardians and Mesmers have too much damage related to survivability.
You can’t have both for a healthy game. If you want super high damage, then you also need to accept super high risk too…just like thieves and rangers…who nobody is complaining about.
It’s particularly a problem with Mesmers right now because you can’t allow that much damage and CC to come from stealth without it being a SUPER HIGH RISK.
It’s a little concerning that nobody at Anet noticed this in their internal testing. Seems like you would at least go to a target dummy and test your programming.
Although as bad as this is, it’s even worse to do this type of damage from stealth like mesmers are doing.
Both of these MIGHT be acceptable if it were a super long cooldown (although even Lich doesn’t do near this damage in 1 shot). However, this damage is being done with ridiculously short cooldowns.
What’s even crazier is that this damage isn’t via some long cooldown elite.
Not sure how this got past internal testing, but you could tell things were rushed, so it’s not that unexpected.
Speaking of Dhuumfire, it’s probably the most embarrassing Grandmaster trait ever now.
Not only are better versions available to other professions as minors, but it’s actually WORSE than Death Perception (the 50% crit grandmaster in the same tree line) for CONDI necros!!!
Don’t believe me? Imagine how easy it is to miss with DS 1 versus DS 4. Now, consider Burning Precision and Target the Weak which are what 100% of condi necros will have because they are defaults in the Curses line. The extra crit from Death Perception will proc Burning Precison and Target the Weak creating MORE condi damage than 1 stack of burning. You can also proc it from DS 4 (and any other DS ability…not just DS 1).
PLUS!!!! You get the extra raw damage from 50% crit while in death shroud which will make 1 stack of burning look like a complete joke.
How can someone with ANY experience in the game seriously call Dhuumfire a grandmaster??? It’s baffling and very embarrassing.
The game is several years old and the playerbase is very knowledgeable now.
Almost everyone sees the problems upcoming with certain abilities and professions, but it’s just a case of timing now. I’m sure they had a deadline to meet, so that’s why these changes (warts and all) are getting rushed out.
You could even tell on the stream how rushed they were just getting the power point done. Not to mention, neither of the guys knew for sure how the new Ranger healing trap worked.
That pretty much tells you there has been little testing done because how would it be possible to not even know how a healing skill works if you’ve been playing with the profession or against the profession.
Expect chaos tomorrow and many of the predictions will be surprisingly accurate. In fact, they had beta streamers today and it’s pretty clear that there are tons of imbalances they are letting go live…despite it being impossible for them not to know about it.
Moreover, going back to the necro design concept of transferring conditions which Robert Gee has pointed out, necromancer can even intentionally interrupt or cancel (using dodge or even stow weapon function) consume condition skill in order to gain the 10 vulnerability stacks only to transfer it to foe.
If a developer actually acknowledged this is an allowable/intended mechanism, then it just shows how poorly the “balancing” aspect of CC has been designed.
They can’t have it both ways. They can’t say that the nerf is necessary due to the new traits and then say the “nerf” is intended to be a buff via just interrupting the cast and xferring the condition.
If this is true, I’d love to see the ridiculous formula they used to calculate how often it will be a nerf versus a buff, so as to give the heal a “value budget” on their balancing spreadsheets.
Considering in the videos that the developers didn’t even know how the new heal for Rangers was going to behave…less than a couple weeks before going live…I’m going to assume that they really haven’t tested any of this stuff thoroughly…which is amazing.
Imagine owning a business and making tons of changes that impact your clients without thoroughly testing them and just making them live with the hopes of fixing them later….Is that a recipe for success or failure?
One other problem with Anet is that they simply make things more complex than they need to be. Consume Conditions went over 2 years without being a corruption skill. Why on earth would you FORCE it to be a corruption skill and THEN force yourself to have to rebalance it in such a clunky way that it could be a buff or a nerf???
Okay, this whole post is kind of silly.
Elementalists get burning precision as an adept trait because burning is the only damaging condition they can stack in threatening quantities. Bleeds on kitten scepter builds don’t count, because if you try to run that, or any form of a dedicated condition elementalist spec, you’re going to be useless. The signet D/F conditon ele build was the best it ever got to be, and the trait that allowed it to function is getting removed. Blinding ashes is a strong trait to be fair, but its balanced by its ICD, which is thankfully being reduced from 5 to 3 seconds.
Now lets look at necromancer. With rabid, and lingering curses, you are able to stack lots of bleeds fairly quickly, and you can even spread them around with epidemic or just use staff marks and whatnot. You have access to enough damaging conditions to run a dedicated condition build, and if you still decide to take terror, you will have arguably the most burst, or the fastest kill potential of any condition build, which is the only way that terrormancer can even stake a niche in this game’s pvp.
Its almost absurd to run a dedicated condition ele after the changes go live, simply because there aren’t enough conditions, damaging or cover or otherwise, nor is there the burst application to justify using it over anything else. It also lacks sustain to an extent compared to celestial elementalist builds. Its called balance. And you can’t have the exact same traits have equal power amongst the different classes, because each class has different strenghts and weaknesses. If necromancers had burning precision as an adept trait in curses, it would be broken as kitten, since they could take terror and LC on top of it, while being able to take something like foot in the grave to be much harder to kill.
So, hopefully by now, its apparent to you why dhuumfire has to be an awkward to use GM, while ele can safely have an on-crit proc.
Some of your post is valid, but you’re leaving out something that you may not be aware of….
There is actual video of Anet explaining WHY they nerfed Dhumfire. They SPECIFICALLY claimed it’s because they didn’t like the passive nature of it…even for a GRANDMASTER trait.
They also claimed that they don’t do “whack-a-mole” nerfs, yet the post nerf Dhumfire requires Life Force and a slow moving projectile to hit. Stats showed it reduced the value of the trait by as much as 60-80%. This is “whack-a-mole” by any objective measure.
Yet…they did NOTHING to change/nerf/buff…OTHER profession traits that are virtually IDENTICAL and aren’t even grandmaster level.
The fact that eles don’t play condi despite having almost perma burning/blind potential speaks to EVEN MORE embarrassment for Anet in other areas…not less.
It’s also important to note that most Necros were AGAINST Dhumfire when it was released. It was the complete opposite of what the community recommended, yet Anet decided in its wisdom to do it anyway.
Their decision proved to be sheer folly because they subsequently had to nerf other things to avoid being proven wrong about Dhumfire, and they STILL eventually had to whack-a-mole it.
If you don’t see the problem with the fact pattern I outlined and think Anet was right, then it’s clear you have no clue what you’re talking about. Please log in to the game…play an hour…and tell me how many condi necros you see playing anymore.
Anet’s logic only makes sense if the goal was to make condi necros virtually extinct and not viable….GRATZ!
Who wants to bet money that with all these “fixes” and hundreds profession changes that they STILL haven’t fixed the Flesh Golem AI???
It’s the most embarrassing piece of programming I’ve ever seen in an MMO. Even WoW 1.0 over a decade ago had pets with better AI and pathing than the Flesh Golem…yet I’m betting money they did NOTHING.
When you factor in the nerf to spectral walk, huge buffs to other professions, nerf to chill/cripple, ZERO added ways to generate life force (especially at the beginning of a match when half your traits and defenses are worthless), zero improvements to AI, and Dhumfire worse than a minor trait for eles (who also can add blind to an identical pre-nerf Dhumfire trait if they decide to go GM)…then you essentially have what someone else mentioned earlier…
A punch to the gut…slap in the face…kick in the groin…and after you recover from that…a bucket of mud dumped on you (a-la this consume conditions TEN stacks of vulnerability nonsense).
With 4 useless healing traits baseline, it’s almost impossible to “juggle around” and still keep up with all the buffs other professions received.
At best, you’re going to be staying static and wondering…WTF…why do I have so few new toys and options compared to others?
It’s almost beyond comprehension how they justified a super tiny nerf to Warrior’s healing signet, yet did this to Consume Conditions. Remember what they said? They claimed they didn’t want to over-nerf Warrior healing signet (despite multiple warriors being in meta PvP teams) because they didn’t “want the other heals to become a much better option”.
In reality, the tiny nerf to warrior’s healing signet changed NOTHING in the decision making and virtually all the other options are still extinct….despite the other options being quite viable and on par with other professions.
YET…with necros…they have 3 terrible healing options and decide to whack-a-mole the only option of value….without doing anything tangible to improve the other 3 options.
You think that is absurd? Look at this…
Elementalist
Fire:
Minor:
Burning Precision: Critical hits have a 33% chance to cause 2 seconds of burning. Burning duration is increased by 20%.
Necromancer
Grandmaster:
Dhuumfire: Shroud skill 1 inflicts 1 stack of burning for 3 seconds when it hits.
They actually gave the original Dhuumfire (plus a buff) to eles as a Minor.
Compare that to the Necro trait that they call a “Grandmaster” which also requires LF and slow projectile to hit.
That, my friend, is the epitome of “absurd”.
Why not just fix the nerf to Dhuumfire? It’s clear they went way overboard with the nerf and turned it into a virtually extinct trait.
I actually did some calculations via recording my play pre-Dhuumfire nerf and it probably procs 70% less than it did before. Not only do you need LF (which is tough to build as condi necro), but you also need to hit someone with a slow moving projectile.
They could have just nerfed the damage of dhuumfire instead of creating a massive nerf to kill it totally. Things like Warriors healing signet were far more passive and OP yet they took super baby steps to nerf it. Virtually all of the warriors other healing options are STILL extinct, so you have to wonder why they went so far to nerf a grandmaster trait for a profession that wasn’t even being selected in multiples for PvP like Warriors.
The recent blog post about cripple and chill not affecting movement skills makes their logic (or warrior bias) also suspect.
The problems are easy to identify because they are the same things that would corrupt ANY game…whether it’s a sport, board game, or video game.
1. You can’t have brand new players playing with experienced players. It’s miserable for both parties no matter what an “algorithm” says. It’s not something that’s fixable with data. It’s fixable with common sense.
2. You can’t have premade teams with voice communication matched with PuGs. It’s understandable that the game can’t detect whether a team has voice com…so that makes the solution even more obvious. You MUST have separate ques for teams versus solo players like in the past. Why change from something that is 100% logical and common sense to something that is again attempted to be fixed with an algorithm.
3. Create meaningful rewards that give people an incentive to play.
4. Create a meaningful leaderboard that reflects skill versus the biggest grinders.
It’s frankly shocking that things so obvious as the above 4 can’t be fixed by a game this old. However, they’ve actually made things worse and not better in these areas, so I can’t even give them the benefit of the doubt and say they haven’t had enough time or resources to fix these things.
The Reaper build looks like a strictly PvE playstyle.
It’s too early to say for sure, but, conceptually, the Reaper build would be too easy to counter in PvP…especially if you’re solo. You will have almost no gap closure and need to be within <600 range to do anything meaningful.
What’s also crazy is that many of the abilities and talents have multi-target aspects, but what cloth wearer with no escapes is going to get in close range of multiple PvPers. Remember that Life Force is the primary “defense” of Necros and it doesn’t scale with multiple people beating on you like immunities/stealth/invuln/etc.
We’ll see better in beta, but I think long cast times and close range abilities are more suited to fighting AI in PvE…than PvP.
If you can think of any cloth-wearing, long cast-time, melee build that is successful in any MMO for high-level PvP, I’m all ears.
This game already has a RANGED long cast time build (Kill Shot Warrior) which seems to do even MORE damage than the melee Reaper shown…yet it’s NEVER used in PvP and people actually laugh at you when you get hit with it.
I just want to take a second to appreciate Robert Gee. I main necro, and also play mesmer. I really like both of the specializations, and it seems like his team is invested in fixing the problems with the classes while keeping to the themes of the class. Props too him, hope all the other devs are equally invested. Keep it up.
Beware what you say prior to even 1 player testing out these changes via BETA.
IMO, this was close to the LAST thing Necros wanted in a specialization.
Yes…the animations will be “interesting and cool” for a week, but think about the concept overall.
You are creating a “specialization” to have a CLOTH wearing class fight in melee range with long cast times.
I guess it could work in PvE, but NOBODY can run this in PvP unless the modifiers are so ridiculously OP.
From the Point of Interest, it didn’t look like any ability even did as much damage as a Kill Shot (which can be done from range, and adrenaline is much easier to max than LF).
In order to make such a ludicrous combination of cloth melee with no mobility and long cast times work, it’s more likely to be either severely OP or underpowered. The middle ground is impossible to fine tune.
Think about a Kill Shot warrior. How many do you see in PvP? How many can hit their Kill Shot with a long cast time even from RANGE? Imagine having such long cast times for melee? Imagine relying on LF to even be able to execute some of these melee skills compare to how quickly you can build intiative/adrenaline/etc.
Furthermore, in the point of interest, I noted one of the AOE effects could hit up to 5 target in aradius of ONLY 180. That pretty much tells you the Great Sword is strictly for PVE and not PvP .
In PvP, what necro is going to choose to fight in melee range with cloth armor and long cast times. If they do select this option for PvP, then it means the modifiers are super out of whack and/or it’s done for gimmick purposes…much like a Kill Shot warrior.
I could be wrong and equipping a GS could be the new meta, but think about it….You can already build a Chillomancer for melee range without the ridiculously long cast times. Depending on the final numbers, the great sword will either make the dagger extinct…or vice versa.
Thus, what have you really achieved? Maybe a cooler way to animate a Necro in melee using Chill as the primary condition of choice?
At this point, it’s too early to give definitive accolades or rebuke for the specific changes. However, overall, it appears that they chose a general strategy that is opposite of what Necros really wanted/needed.
I’ve tested it pretty thoroughly in PvP. It’s bad compared to Consume Conditions in almost all scenarios, but you do get more total healing from it over the course of a match.
Other than the problems already highlighted, you also have to spec for signet mastery and use sigil slots for purity/generosity…so that you can lose conditions.
Assuming you do all those things and use a non-meta life leech build, I can see it being beneficial. You have to give up too much though to make it even viable.
Not even the most zealous fan of GW2 can stick with the current state of affairs.
It’s not even the slow as molasses PvP patches or lack of any notable rewards. Those are forgivable and can be fixed pretty easy.
It’s the fact that they INTENTIONALLY…
1. Place brand new players in RANKED matches with (and against) experienced players.
2. Have a “leaderboard” that is anything but a list of grinders.
3. Matchmake premades that could have voice com against solo quers.
4. Create heavy AI based professions/builds with AI programming worse than that created 10 years ago in WoW 1.0
I don’t care how good the combat system is. Name any game on the planet where people will flock to playing under such a ridiculous model.
At the moment many people farm for their beta key so PvP is even less populated. Lesser population means fewer matchmaking options.
I don’t think people are avoiding ranked PvP because of beta key farming. Check your friends list and see how many are actually farming.
If they ARE choosing to mindlessly farm versus PvP, then that is even more indicative of problems with this game.
IMO, most people aren’t doing ranked because the leaderboard is a joke and the matchmaking is equally bad.
It’s almost unfathomable that ANET…
1. CHANGED from an MMR based leaderboard to this grind based model
2. CHANGED from the totally logical and fair model of separating premade and solo quers to a system.
3. Match totally new players against (and with) very experienced players.
Think of ANY other game…not just MMOs…how popular do you think that game would be with players with all of the above ridiculousness.
Sorry, but I’ve got to shot yeh down, Boggs. Since we can’t detect voice coms, I can’t include it as a factor in matchmaking.
We do have some knobs that we can turn to increase competition for teams, but we have to be careful because a premade team does not always imply more skillful play.
If you “can’t detect voice coms”, that’s understandable. However, it’s one of the most influential traits in determining the outcome of a game.
I’m sure you can provide anecdotal stories of “this one time in band camp…” where a bunch of new/novice players suddenly had lots of friends in this game…they were all online at the same time…formed a premade…all of them had TS…and lost to a bunch of soloqers with no voice com.
A team with voice com CAN occasionally lose to a team without voice com. (However, it would ironically indicate MORE negative things about your matchmaking algorithm if/when it does occur.)
The fact that I’m having to explain the value of voice com to developers of an MMO makes me feel like I’m in the twilight zone…who would argue this?
Yet, you guys at Anet must disagree.
Otherwise you would NEVER go through all the trouble to change from a 100% logical system where you had a separate team que and solo que (plus the OPTION of a solo player joining team que).
You ALREADY HAD the best option for dealing with the limitation of not detecting voice com in a matchmaking algorithm.
Who on earth convinced you guys that the current model makes more sense than previous model? That person should be in sales…not game design.
I keep track and can GUARANTEE that I get matched up with bigger premade groups many more times than not. I suspect my MMR is high, so it’s probably an “intended” curse.
The real problem isn’t solos matching with premades. That’s bad enough (and pretty amazing that someone at Anet actually decided to CHANGE from the previous logical system to this system). However, if you want to know why this game has so few players, it’s because they force new players to play with experienced players.
Imagine just learning how to play basketball. Then, imagine getting matched with University of Kentucky basketball players. It doesn’t matter whether you’re against them or matched with them on your team…it’s going to be miserable for both the experienced and new player.
In the end, both groups stop playing because the experience people don’t want to play with new players, and the noobs don’t want to be constantly over their head.
I’m not a fan of conspiracy theories by Anet against Necros, but that Ready Up was a joke for Necros.
Just re-shuffling and combining a few traits…are you serious?
Moving Terror to GM?…Dhumfire doing the same damage a scepter 1?…Nothing for the axe…no mobility, escapes, increase in LF generation…absolutely nothing related to the constructive feedback given by the community.
It looked really haphazard and came across that way when you benchmark it against the presentation of other professions.
Did the guy really imply that a Necro wants to get hit (unlike a mesmer)? How on earth does that even get accidently uttered by anyone who has played a Necro? It’s virtually impossible to imagine and quite scary/telling at the same time.