Guild Wars 2

Kalarchis.8635:

Opening up the Dominion during the destruction of the city and introducing Tengu as playable shortly after would be a wonderful move. This is absolutely the perfect opportunity to bring them into the fold and I think Anet would be making a huge mistake not to.

An event like this reinforces the value of the wall, it certainly doesn’t give them an incentive to open up. The wall is supposed to protect them, a war like this (most of the factions involved are the same race as the playable ones) will reinforce to the tengu why they keep out of things. It’s only when the tengu are threatened from inside the wall that they will need to leave (and Primordius is already doing that).

DarksunG.9537:

Because Anet loves her so much she’s a lore vortex. Bending everything to fit her.

This is the real reason. You can actually apply it to the Living Story cast (the ones that were replaced with Priory members two weeks after a massive weapon was built a short walk from their HQ, the ones that figure out the attack on Lion’s Arch two weeks in advance while the Captain’s Council are playing “pass the idiot ball”).

Here’s the thing, Scarlet has a goal, but it’s not the goal that forged these alliances. Why didn’t these alliances say “sure we have power, but we aren’t doing our own thing – we are doing Scarlet’s thing”. The Nightmare Court are like a norn, doing evil is like chasing a legend – you can do it anywhere and it makes sense. The krait aren’t getting closer to their prophets in Lion’s Arch, the Flame Legion aren’t subduing the Black Citadel in Lion’s Arch, the Aetherblades are apparently made up of pirates with Inquest technology, so they are ironically going backwards if you assume they were welcome in Lion’s Arch in the past (they still won’t control it).

Ruin.1927:

They’re also more powerful now than they ever were. They’re part of an army that has far greater capability than they ever had as their own individual factions. They can’t ignore that fact.

If my goal is to trek across Antarctica and I join the Navy I become part of an organisation that has far more power than I do individually. That doesn’t mean I’m any closer to accomplishing my goal – the Navy isn’t going to let me do what I want, I work for them, I do what they want. The individual factions working for Scarlet aren’t achieving much out of all this.

Becka Williams.4978:

To be fair, Trahearne’s wyld hunt was to cleanse Orr. He did that, after studying it for 25 years. He deserves a bit of a break, yeah?

No-one gets a break in Tyria. Not until the dragons are dead. Even if Trahearne is on holiday in Southsun, someone needs to lead the Pact.

But yeah, Scarlet and the cast are taking too much of the spotlight at the expense of the world building that would tell us other heroes and factions should be involved on a more prominent level.

It’d be hilarious to see Trahearne turn up in Lion’s Arch, point to the serial code on his stolen ship and cut the “bike chain” on his ship. That’ll teach Magnus and Kiel for accepting stolen goods (funny Kiel will take a stolen ship but she won’t use the loot from the crashed merchant ship and give it to the players like Evon did – I guess she only likes stolen things when she gets to keep them for herself).

I’m still curious how Lion’s Arch is going to work out for people who need to meet an apple seller. Some personal story stuff I could ignore (like the death of the Queen), but an entire city occupied, meeting an apple seller isn’t going to make sense at all. The Battle for Claw Island won’t make sense at all (let’s reclaim an island because the city might fall, you know, again).

I hope they at least have technology to show two separate instances. I did a personal story instance in Bloodtide Coast yesterday and there was the glaring inclusion of one of Scarlet’s thumpers in the middle of it. Escorting that political refugee out of the city won’t make a lot of sense if half of the landmarks are destroyed or burning while the NPCs wander around like it’s a normal day.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Darkbattlemage.9612:

Like Lady Demmi Beetlestone who now a member of the Order of Whispers?

That’s an option I had not considered yet. I wish there was some way to link the letter E to her though, but the whole “Mister E / Mystery” thing makes it just as likely that it’s a play on words. So the letter need not be related to the name of the sender at all.

Mister E is Kasmeer’s creation, it’s not a name that E used himself/herself.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Demmi is however a character prominent in the human personal storyline (that’s assuming the player has made it this far in the PS.) In fact, that may be a point against her, that she is heavily involved with part of the PS, as this would kind of derail the timeline if she were Mister E.

As is Lord Faren. Several other characters also cross over.

I honestly don’t understand how this thread gets two pages long. I didn’t think we know enough about E to fuel a two page discussion (then again, many posts are wild speculation that don’t take into account most of what we do know).

Honestly I’m not prepared to rule anyone out (aside from maybe Marjory). I think there are a large number of unlikely characters (as was mentioned before, certain races seem less likely due to the nature of Marjory’s encounter but I wouldn’t say it’s impossible). If Logan was E (I don’t believe he is) he’s already acting as if he’s not. He would keep up that act if questioned about him (again I don’t think it’s him, but I believe it’s still possible however unlikely).

Honestly if I had to guess, E is a virtuous thief with an interest in protecting Kryta/Tyria and he/she is very well connected. It would be bizarre if E wasn’t a member of the Order of Whispers (why write that organisation in Tyria if the story’s most order-like character isn’t one of them – then again, wouldn’t E reveal his/her identity to other OoW members?). My guess is E is someone we haven’t met yet. I’d be surprised if E was Evon, Kiel, Kasmeer, Logan, Anise, Canach, Taimi, Noll or any of the other major characters so far (I personally wouldn’t eliminate them as possibilities). The only suggestion I’ve seen so far that holds any weight to me is Marcello, but even that seems unlikely to me (he seems more comical than anything, but it would be a good cover). I don’t know who Prince Edair is (haven’t finished SoS yet, I got bored early on and put it down). My guess is E is yet to make an appearance in person, or if he/she did, it was as a background character (given how poorly Mai’s identity was hidden, I doubt this is the case).

What do we know?

• E used a deep voice when talking to Marjory. This is mentioned twice in the story (A deep voice whispered next to my ear, "Calm. and “Listen closely,” the deep voice said.). The wording is very deliberate. E could be masking his/her voice or be a woman with a deep voice. This tells us almost nothing other than E has a voice.
• E is stealthy. He/she was able to sneak up on Marjory and restrain her without her having time to react (I stood slowly, and as I reached my full height, a body came up gently behind me. Arms wrapped so intimately around me that my fight or flight instincts never kicked in.). Possibly ruling out charr, asura and norn.
• E uses at least one dagger (Then, a knife appeared at my throat. ). Again that makes me think thief class but anyone can use a knife, I think Canach used one at some point and he’s a warrior (I think?).
• E is interested in working with Marjory (“There are forces at work in this city, in this world, that will take us all down if we let them. Together, you and I can make a difference.” and Player: He contacts you often? Often enough. Usually with some tip about wrongdoings that need righted.). He/she also seems to be interested in doing good.
• E is probably not a necromancer (I sensed no necromantic power radiating from my captor. This was someone different.).
• E might be the black cloaked figure Marjory was chasing (There! A black-cloaked figure slid through the shadows on the far side of the street.).
• E knew the name of the necromancer that dispelled Mendel’s spirit (“The man you’re chasing is Kraig the Bleak. Magic for hire. You’ll probably never see him again.”). Maybe there is more to Kraig’s story and what happened to the woman Mendel witnessed? It’s still unsolved according Marjory (I hired myself to unravel the conspiracy behind the ghost boy’s murder. I haven’t succeeded yet, but I will.). The story also links to a Minister (coincidentally as does Kasmeer’s sob story). All of this implies E might have an interest in the politics of Divinity’s Reach.
• E is very careful when communicating, not giving away too many clues of his/her identity (preferring to be called “E”, never showing his/her face, approaching Marjory from behind).
• E is interested in Krytan politics. Theo Ashford was on the Captain’s Council and E helps out with that investigation, Mendel mentions a Minister For the first time, the ghost boy looked straight at me, and he said, “Minister—”). Both of E’s appearances are specific to human politicians (although in his letter he just says I’ve heard whispers about a threat to the Ship’s Council and, if left unchecked, to the city itself.). Note he/she mentions a threat to the city of Lion’s Arch? I wouldn’t be surprised if he/she popped up with the current threat to the city. Interesting that he/she calls it the Ship’s Council, I thought it was Captain’s Council? This all has a lot in common with an Order of Whispers agent
• E’s most recent appearance was around the time of Wintersday (Marjory: Our mystery man has been in touch. Kasmeer: You mean E? What’d he want? Marjory: To warn us, it seems. He says there’s a war coming to our doorsteps, a war for all of Tyria.). E says almost nothing of value (at least nothing Marjory would give us).
• E doesn’t rely on luck (I’d wish you luck, but luck is what fools and idiots require to stay alive. You, I believe, are neither.).
• E is interested in the player character (You may not know me, but I know you. I’m calling upon you because you’re capable in the face of danger.).
• E was unable to intervene at Dragonbash (I’ve heard whispers about a threat to the Ship’s Council and, if left unchecked, to the city itself. I’d intervene myself, but circumstances prevent it.).

Interesting to note:

• Kasmeer was the first to misleadingly give E a gender (Ah, the mysterious Mister E. I see. Well, your assistance will be more than welcome, I’m sure.). E never used Mister, it was Kasmeer. Marjory later corrects this (We call him a ‘he,’ but we don’t know if that’s true. All we know is that he knows a lot. So, he must be fairly well connected. He hasn’t been wrong yet.).
• Logan wanted his name kept out of Marjory’s actions (Marjory Delaqua: How can I say no to Captain Lo– Captain Logan Thackeray: No names. I was never here.). I suspect this is just keeping with the noir style and the story recognising Marjory was hired by a Seraph to work in Lionguard jurisdiction.

It’s a long list but I don’t think it leads to anyone.

The story just mentions a deep voice, not male (A deep voice whispered next to my ear). It was intentionally misleading so that people would think E is a male. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if for this reason, E will be female. That keeps with the Living Story trend of making the majority of protagonists female. It also explains why Marjory annoyingly insisted we don’t know what gender E is. Not only did she hear E, but E touched her. How good of a detective can she be if she can’t figure out more about E like his race, smell, height – anything really.

I kind of view the E mystery the same as the Scarlet’s motive and plan.We’ve been given almost nothing to go on and the things we were given were either misleadingly vague (deep voice) or argued to be puns not indicative of gender (Mr E = mystery – I would be annoyed if this was nothing more than a pun unless it’s part of E’s personality to make puns)? We could guess all night, but the truth is we don’t know enough to even make educated guesses. E could be Evon, Kiel, Logan, Anise, Bahltek, a character we haven’t met yet (like a sylvari protagonist – for a story that is centred around a sylvari and a possible link to the dream you’d think another sylvari would take an interest) or any number of other people.

Erukk.1408:

This is why we need those short stories back. Even now, we’re picking out little details to spin theories out of. What Scarlet Saw seems to be holding all sorts of little details and foreshadowing we’re only seeing now.

NEED MOER SHROT STOREIS!!!!

This is all reason why What Scarlet Saw needed to be in the game, not a short story. It’s the catalyst that starts the entire Living Story plot. The story shouldn’t be reserved for people who read the short stories, especially when it’s as important as What Scarlet Saw.

What Scarlet Saw could ideally be shown in game via a chain quest (talk to each of her mentors) and then finish up talking to the Pale Tree. She shows you a vision of What Scarlet Saw in a similar style to the sylvari creation scene up to the point where Scarlet severs the connection (the two cinematics from the Tower – Kasmeer removing the veil, and the tower toppling – neither of these moments are as crucial to the story as Scarlets experience in Omadd’s device). This roots Scarlet in the world, it allows players to learn about her from her masters (it also means her masters recognise that she existed early on and creates a familiarity within Tyria about her story by retracing her journey as Ceara – while in the area players can look at the hylek tribe and interact with the environment Scarlet came from – an advantage of an MMO that is wasted by having this story on the website) and it gets more of the players on the same page when it comes to Scarlet’s history and understanding .

I like the short stories, but I like the stories to make it into the game. Taimi doesn’t have a short story, yet we’ve already learned so much about her from the game. That’s the right way to do it imo.

Did the tengu always have such jarring idle animations? I was checking out the tengu near Titan’s Staircase today and there seems to be a problem with their animation loops. It seems they don’t have sheathe/unsheathe animations so they skip from one state to the next.

JackDaniels.1697:

in order for the conclusion of the Living Story to be a hit?

I think you can still have a climactic ending without the need of someone dying.

Plus, isn’t that what we all expect? For someone to die. I know Anet is all about being creative and surprising us, and that would not surprise me if it happened, because I am already expecting it to happen.

I expect none of the protagonists to die, certainly not Kasmeer. So much of that hype seems to be based on what I see as a misinterpretation of “noble woman trying to fit in with hardened adventurers”. People see the story respect that background and they think it’s foreshadowing her death as opposed to exploring her journey to becoming a valued member of the group. I think the writers like Marjory and Kasmeer too much to kill them.

Another reason the “death card” red light keeps going off for people is the writers are trying too hard to make these characters sympathetic. Kasmeer’s sob story, Taimi’s illness, those are cheap tricks writers use to make the audience bond with a character they want to kill. They don’t want the death to surprise you, they want the death to have an emotional impact so they position the audience to like them.

A surprising death for this story wouldn’t be to kill Marjory, Kasmeer or Taimi, it would be to kill Logan. Why? Because we aren’t positioned to like him, he’s bad at his job during the Queen’s Jubilee and in all of his scenes with Taimi the writers threw him under the bus so they could leverage the audience’s dislike of him into like for Taimi. Compare how his portrayal with Taimi is to the way Braham’s portrayal with Taimi. The goal was to make Braham and Taimi bond, Logan was used as a tool for that purpose. The Living Story doesn’t try to get us to like Logan, it uses him as a tool to get us to like the other characters. Killing Logan would be a surprise.

Another reason I believe people expect or want a death from the story is that would justify in their eyes all the prominence given to Kasmer and Marjory’s relationship. So far it’s been extraneous to the core story and hasn’t really led to anything. Imagine Lord of the Rings with two random characters – that’s what Marjory and Kasmeer are – and their love story plopped in the middle of it. You’re reading about the fight between the treants and Saruman then all of a sudden you get brought back to random love story. People think it might be a set up for a death, to justify all the time they spent focusing on it.

Finally, I think players want a real consequence from this story to justify the build up. We will probably get something physical – a new map, dramatic changes to existing maps, destruction of a well known environment or place, maybe the introduction of a new character, but will be get an emotional consequence? Something players can emotively connect to? Scarlet is supposed to be a personal nemesis but very little about the story feels personal. We are interested in these events because it’s new content and it’s a threat to Tyria but we aren’t emotionally invested. A character death makes it personal.

sephard.2470:

What if it wasn’t a seed but an egg?

Even if that’s the case, it’s an issue of semantics. The seed/egg grows into a tree.

You can actually visit the Pale Tree in GW1. It’s just a sapling at the time, but it’s there.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ventari%27s_sanctuary

Zaxares.5419:

Whatever happens, I’m certain that Canach will play a part in it. That whole off-hand remark about how somebody could buy his billet and allow him to work off his debt just screams to me that somebody (either Kiel or Marjory is my guess) will be doing that very shortly.

Wouldn’t it be nice if, for once, the player got to do it? Instead of it constantly being about the other characters, Canach has a direct relationship to us?

I think it’s obvious that his billet will be purchased in the future, whether or not it’s during Scarlet’s attack I don’t know (it would make sense given they want us to think the defence will be undermanned). I just hope his new Goody-Two-Shoes-Kiel impersonation is just an act and the Canach we see in the future is less obnoxiously white.

Nike.2631:

I think we can safely rule out Personal Story-disrupting levels of damage. If the storytellers of ArenaNet are having meetings to discuss how to work Hero Voice into the climax, then they haven’t had all the hero voice actors in the studio to record any tweaks or restructuring required to move the Lion’s Arch scenes to a new location – both types of recording would have been done at the same time.

My understanding is that they have trouble working the PC voice actors into the new Living World style of dialogue scenes. There should be no problem replicating the Personal Story scenes if they wanted to. I doubt they would retcon Personal Story, that would be a disaster.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Volstag.6371:

What do we really know about the Stone Warband? Even Rytlock seems to distance himself from it in the novel. Is it possible that its a Warband for gladium? Have we met anyone else that is even in that Warband?

At the moment, only what Logan told us last release: they’re all officers in the Legions, and don’t do much as a unit anymore.

Which, frankly, just makes Rytlock’s incessant hazing all the more ridiculous.

I just thought that was weak writing trying to force the conclusion that Rox decides not to join Rytlock’s warband, she instead chooses Braham and the team. They wrote Rytlock’s warband as clearly unappealing so that Rox makes the decision they want her to make (just like so much of the rest of the Living Story has people and factions holding the idiot ball, acting out of character or doing whatever it is they need to do to accommodate the direction Scarlet of the new cast are supposed to move in).

Why do people think Rox’s behaviour to be so unusual? That’s the military chain of command, not some weird fan girl. In addition to that, Rytlock is one of the most notable charr in Tyria. Working on his team would be very prestigious, I don’t view trials to get onto his team as unbelievable. I do think it’s stupid Rox was sent to fight Tequatl or Scarlet as a test, how the kitten was she supposed to do either of those things on her own? With the help of others, how is she supposed to demonstrate she did anything of worth?

Is that a weird way of saying killing/eating us is his birthday present?

Isn’t it possible both to be the first and last of your kind? I don’t think they are mutually exclusive.

I’m copying a post from another thread and bringing it here because it was off topic and this is the relevant place for it.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Shiren.9532:

BrunoBRS.5178:

i mean, short of introducing text recognition into the game, clicking the right dialogue choice is what we have.

In the Personal Story there is no “wrong” or “right” choice. You choose and it’s what happens. I understand the Living World has to have only one option because we all share it, but when that’s the case, being told I’m wrong and then being thanked in the end for figuring it out (by the people telling me I’m wrong), that feels like token involvement to me, especially when very little of the instance recognises that my character was present for all of those events.

well first, the personal story’s only real choices branched the story into a thousand mini-nodes that harmed more than did good.

for the sake of concise storytelling and keeping all players on the same page, the living story is linear.

i understand that you want more choice, but that instance was not the right place for it. the alternative is what, you get it wrong and then game over? just think of it as skipping the game over screen and jumping back into the gameplay when you get something wrong. and of course she thanked you. you got it right eventually.

I don’t want more choice and in my post that you quote I state that " I understand the Living World has to have only one option because we all share it" so I don’t expect it to branch like the Personal Story. I simply disagree that the choices acted to convincingly make me feel like I was involved or that the NPCs were following me. The way they corrected me made me feel like a child being guided by its parent doing their homework. I recognise they made an effort here but I didn’t find it convincing.

There are a couple things I think could improve this:

• Have more of the discussion reflect that as a player I was participating in these events. Kiel was the face of the Thaumanova report – why wasn’t I? I was there, I didn’t need Kiel’s report – as far as I know I told her what to write in it. It would have been nice to have my character explain these things to the NPCs (in that room I was the only person that was involved in every one of those events but the NPCs did all the talking).
• Instead of having Kiel and Marjory talking to each other and deciding things, have my character doing it. When Marjory and Kiel are sorting things out and then later on informing me of their decision, it feels like I’m just tagging along with what they say and decide. Let me bring the information to the Captain’s Council and suggest that we need to defend Lion’s Arch together, then have the NPCs agree to support me.

There are certain challenges I’m sure this kind of thing would face. Not all players participated in everything. I can see why the player isn’t the face of some of these events simply because, for some players it’s not the case, maybe it’s a simply case of writing two variables – one dialogue option for players that were there, one for players that weren’t. Some people might also resent scripted dialogue for their character that doesn’t represent them (but honestly, any level of involvement is going to have this problem). We also know they haven’t yet solved the tech problems with involving the player character in voiced scenes, so any involvement will be textual only.

I recognise that they’ve made an effort and it’s an improvement on before, but I’d like to see it go further (and I’m really looking forward to the players getting their voices back).

Are you saying there were changes in Scarlet’s lair from when we first discovered it?

BrunoBRS.5178:

i mean, short of introducing text recognition into the game, clicking the right dialogue choice is what we have.

In the Personal Story there is no “wrong” or “right” choice. You choose and it’s what happens. I understand the Living World has to have only one option because we all share it, but when that’s the case, being told I’m wrong and then being thanked in the end for figuring it out (by the people telling me I’m wrong), that feels like token involvement to me, especially when very little of the instance recognises that my character was present for all of those events.

zamalek.2154:

I’m pretty pleased with how close my theorycrafting was.

Outright Conjecture

hide spoiler

• Dragons are definitely not the goal – they are a means to an end to free Dhuum (Dhuumstone finisher content mining).

Not enough will happen to LA to contradict the Personal Story instances which take place inside of it. Every order story is rooted in Lion’s Arch.

Miroe.2054:

Narcemus.1348:

MatthewMedina.5419:

I’m confident that our storytelling in this format will get better and better as a result!

I personally would say that this release and the last are proof that it already has gotten much better

It really did. Considering the uproar of the player base when they didn’t feel important enough, I had to laugh when reading Marjorys letter. “I can’t emphasize enough what of an important rule you played revealing Scarlets plans” well played, Anet

I felt so important being told I was wrong every time I selected the “incorrect” conclusion during the Scarlet instance. I knew what the “approved” answer would be before selecting (they were all leading answers) but I selected the other ones to see what would happen. The player involvement in the whole thing was just token involvement and after being corrected the whole way through the instance it was condescending to be told I was helpful.

Even the things we actually did were credited to NPCs. Ellen Kiel’s report on Thaumanova mentions discoveries about Scarlet’s involvement. I know I was in the Thaumanova fractal, I only saw Kiel interrogating Dessa. In that instance, why am I bothering to read Kiel’s report when my characters was the one actually in the instance?

The problem here is the difference being told something as opposed to showing it.

DanteZero.9736:

The investigation was meant to serve as a way for newer players to catch up with the storyline. As for the whole big reveal, I have this feeling that it’s more of a red herring, but that’s just me.

I think it’s that and some awkward way to wedge Marjory (and the gang) into the story. The story treats the rest of Tyria like idiots so that the cast can take the spotlight. I was really disappointed to hear the Captain’s Council dismiss the information. The idiot ball (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IdiotBall) is used in almost every update of the Living Story. The dredge and Flame Legion held it, the krait held it (I honestly don’t think the Nightmare Court were developed enough to hold it), the orders of Tyria are mostly absent from Tyria with token appearances and now the Captain’s Council are holding it.

I’m waiting for the Scarlet Briar cover version of “Wrecking Ball” where she rides on top of the marionette remains as it swings and destroys the asura gates in Lion’s Arch.

There are some really compelling plot points going on but the way that we get there is painful.

I don’t think it means sylvari have hidden programming. I think it means the sylvari connection to the Dream is intentionally restricted somehow. That the Dream as sylvari experience it is just one part of a much bigger whole (I’ll call it the Aether) that they don’t naturally connect to, their connection to it is through and limited by the Pale Tree. Think of the Aether as the internet. The Dream is Mrs Jones’ home computer with a very heavy parental filter restricting her children from leaving Nickelodeon’s website. All of Mrs Jones’ kids connect directly to that website, to them that’s what the internet is, they don’t know any better and they can’t go anywhere else despite the internet being limitless. Omadd’s device removed that restriction from Scarlet (essentially turning off the internet filter) and she was able to go beyond the Dream that the Pale Tree cares for (or leashes her too, depending on your perspective) and deeper into the “Aether” where she ran into the entity, possibly an Elder Dragon, that is also connected to the “Aether” but because Scarlet never left her filtered Dream before, she was vulnerable to malware.

moomooo.9357:

First and foremost, Malyck never had a Dream of Dreams. But as it stands, he hasn’t fallen to corruption like the theory would posit.

How was Malyck able to communicate and function two weeks after leaving his pod if he didn’t dream? I can understand walking to an extent (a new born calf can learn to walk fairly quickly) but he was as physically capable as any other sylvari (doesn’t he help fight off the Nightmare Court?). How does he learn speech so quickly? I’d have to replay the quests to remember clearly, but Malyck seemed to communicate fine and that’s not something you pick up in two weeks. We don’t know he hasn’t fallen to corruption, he could be a sentient dragon minion that is deceiving us. If sylvari as we know them aren’t inherently connected to the Dream by a Mother Tree (as Trahearne apparently thinks Malyck is not) what makes the Pale Tree so special?

moomooo.9357:

The other theory is that, so far, to date, no minion has broken the control and will of it’s dragon overlord through sheer will/circumstance. Glint’s control was broken due to a specific Forgotten ritual.

The idea doesn’t require that the Pale Tree breaks free from a dragon’s corruption on its own. All it requires is that the Pale Tree is somehow free from a dragon’s corruption. We don’t know about the origins of the seed, it could have been freed before Ronan planted it (thus freeing the other seeds as well). We don’t know what happened to the tree before the first sylvari were born – it could have been freed in that time. Maybe someone physically freed it. Maybe it was freed (such a weird looking word) by something within the Aether.

The “evidence” debunking the sylvari connection to elder dragon idea is pretty much entirely conjecture and assumptions (as is the idea that sylvari are dragon minions). I don’t think the most interesting question is “are the sylvari Elder Dragon minions”, we simply don’t know enough to go either way on that. I think the better question is, what do we really know about the Dream? I think Scarlet’s experience and Vorpp’s comments imply that there is more to the Dream as we know it. Previously I assumed what Scarlet saw was facilitated entirely by the machine. Now I think it’s possible that she only saw what she saw because it opened up her existing connection to the Dream. The Pale Tree seemed to know there was something dangerous where Scarlet’s mind was going, why would the Pale Tree think that?

I’d like for things like this to be more visible. I had no reason to look for Rytlock in this location. Some things are fine to leave to be found (like talking to the Pale Tree about Scarlet) but I feel like Rytlock’s mission should be more visible. Perhaps throw in a line at the end of the beach instance where Rytlock mentions he’s about to do field work in Bloodtide Coast. Have him first arrive at the meeting point for the three Vigil members taking on the wurm. If he starts his inspection there a lot of players would have noticed it. Make it a dynamic event that we initiate, add some gameplay to it.

It’s fair to expect interested players to talk to the Pale Tree about Scarlet – it seems like an obvious way to find out more about her. What reason do we have to expect Rytlock to be in Bloodtide Coast? You don’t find this content, you either luck into it or someone tells you about it (or you miss it all together). I think things like this should be more visible.

Who was writing the characters prior to now?

I don’t think that’s scraping the bottom of the barrel. That Personal Story detail is a huge part of a character’s background. Sharing that in common with a character it would make sense for it to be mentioned. The Living Story so far plays like it’s all about the other characters, the player is barely involved. You get all this character building between the NPCs and it’s like the player character is simply forgotten.

This isn’t scraping the bottom of the barrel, this is a missed opportunity to engage the player character in the story.

Wasn’t there a map in Scarlet’s layer with giant red arrows pointing in the direction of Lion’s Arch? And a big black cross on it (along with the order HQs)?

You’re not the leader when throughout the entire instance, Marjory, Kasmeer and Vorpp tell you what are the right and wrong answers.

It makes her vulnerable but at the same time she’s so capable because of her asuran craftiness, she not limited by it. I had just assumed she really loved golems and if a kid was going to fight, inside armour was more believable for a kid. I also liked Taimi pointing out Scarlet’s quest for freedom. It reminded me of the video game Cloud (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_%28video_game%29) about a boy in a hospital bed who dreams of flying. I think I’m reading into it a bit here, but Taimi probably spent some time feeling trapped by her weak legs, yearning for freedom (which she gained from her golem, it also explains why she’s so reckless – better than sitting inside). The idea that she can relate to Scarlet’s desire for freedom because of her own desire for freedom from her illness, that resonated with me. Everyone else views Scarlet as a monster but Taimi relates to her.

Honestly, there was so much information about Taimi in this recent patch and all of it was really enjoyable. I think she’s the first prominant asuran character in-game that I’ve actually liked.

Yeah, it’s one time which really sucks. It’s a huge exposition dump, comprehending everything that happened in there is no small task and wrapping your head around all of the details in one go through would require a powerful mind. I suggest you prepare to take screen shots. According to another thread, if you are a Priory member you get slightly altered dialogue, but I suspect the core of it is the same. I’m really starting to regret making my main a Vigil member. Priory and Order of Whispers especially get all the unique dialogue.

Stephen.6312:

I wonder if Ceara’s exposure to the chaos magic released at the Thaumanova reactor has anything to do with this? Was she exposed at that time to an entity like a “chaos beast”?

Alternatively, could be be ore to Omadd than we realize?

She was Scarlet during Thaumanova wasn’t she?

moomooo.9357:

Show Spoiler

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There’s one quote by Vorp when reviewing the evidence of Omadd’s device. That is, the only things that go in are brought in, nothing exists inside that device. So the voices/the entity/presence was brought in by Scarlet herself. Vorp theorized that she encountered a dark side of her psyche. This works against the “Mordremoth is controlling her” theories to an extent, unless the argument is that Mordy was already a part of her psyche. However, it still doesn’t fully discount dragons being involved. Even if she’s gone insane and it’s an alter ego, her end goal still may very well have something to do with dragons. Particularly now that they’ve clarified that it’s the leylines under LA that she’s interested in.

EDIT: Also were those new diary entries? They seemed the same to me. I liked how they added dates so the forumers could squelch that argument hehe

I’d like to point out one of the recent revelations in the new story instance discussing Scarlet/Ceara. Spoilers if you haven’t finished the current Living Story.

Vorpp: This is Synergestic’s Headmaster Omadd’s isolation module. A sylvari named Ceara went in; Scarlet came out. I reverse-engineered an image of Ceara’s aura patterns before and after. The schism is pronounced and dramatic. Ceara encountered something that literally broke her mind, but the only things in there were things she brought. I surmise she was directly exposed to a part of her own psyche that had been carefully walled off. Perhaps for her own protection? We’d need to do far more extensive study of the sylvari Dream before I could draw any more-detailed conclusion. What I can conclude now is that she’s preparing to strike. Mark my words: Scarlet’s next attack is planned and ready.

Now I’ve personally demonstrated a lack of knowledge of how the sylvari Dream works but isn’t this new information that could support the idea that sylvari are servants of Mordremoth?

“The only things in there were things she brought.” Is that their way of saying, what happened in that machine was connected to a sylvari’s connection to the Dream? She wasn’t corrupted from something external, the machine made her vulnerable to something already inside of her, something she was already connected to.

“I surmise she was directly exposed to a part of her own psyche that had been carefully walled off. Perhaps for her own protection.” We don’t know where the sylvari come from. We know there was a cave with seeds, but we know nothing about the seeds. It it possible that sylvari have the potential to be dragon minions, but they have mental protection (possibly from the Pale Tree) preventing them from their true origins (I think Vorpp does say everyone’s mind has some protection)? Scarlet is becoming unravelled because using Omadd’s device, she broke through that protection and became vulnerable to what was on the other side. The Pale Tree knows about this and tries to protect Scarlet from what she doesn’t know. This could also be Caithe’s secret, Caithe knows that sylvari are on a knife’s edge from being the very thing they fight. That would also be a secret worth keeping. One, that if it ever got out, would change Tyria as we know it.

Now I’ve moulded this new information to fit the idea that sylvari are servants of Mordremoth (or another dragon) and there are countless other potential explanations. I just though this (as unlikely as it might be) would be worth discussing in this thread.

You can get a fair bit of her back story from Taimi herself in EotM. The golem makes a lot more sense now. Taimi is becoming one of the best written characters in the Living Story.

Mark Katzbach.9084:

Hey all. I know you’ve all seen the new build, but the team hasn’t opened up the map just yet. I will update here when it’s been opened up. Just a little more patience, please

Thanks for that. I was genuinely confused by this in my eagerness to see the new content.

Doesn’t the presence of probes in EotM discount a lot of possibilities for what Scarlet could be looking for? For example, Primordius is not in the mists – he’s in Tyria. Why would Scarlet look for Primordius using probes in the mists (on a floating island for that matter)? I’m making a few assumptions about the EotM here (I haven’t seen the live version yet) but if there are probes there, I think it discounts a lot of things.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Shiren.9532:

It makes me very happy to see that the big players in Tyria are involved in the story. It’s just not believable that everything revolves around the five lane NPCs. I wish this stuff was easier to see, I’ve sent a considerable amount of time in Bloodtide foraging between wurm runs and I’ve completed the Marionette several times and I haven’t seen either of these.

personally, i like that things happen whether you’re around or not. the story junkies will find out about these sooner or later, and they’re just extra fluff, not story critical things.

How will the story junkies find them out though? I suspect most people in this thread wouldn’t have seen them unless this thread existed. I like that these things exist, I don’t like that they are so easy to miss (there were similar issues with Southsun and Kiel but it was a little harder to miss that one).

I suspect it’s a bug.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

For people saying they should have a public testing server – no thanks, you just get everyone trying to play in the testing server so they can experience new content first which means nobody is actually playing the current content and the game sort of dies as a result.

We know this to be untrue because plenty of MMOs have a testing server that manages to avoid killing off their audience on the live content. I’m fine with the down time on EotM – we were warned about it prior to the launch and problems were unforeseen. I still think there is merit in the argument that more robust testing prior to today would have been beneficial. Perhaps they could have had an open beta weekend of EotM a week or two ago where EotM could temporarily be available for everyone to try out. Testing in a live environment before the official launch. It would lower expectations of players (the LFG tool is still in beta btw) and it would avoid patch day disappointments and awkward unresolved story progression.

I’d love to see the fractal redesigned but I can’t say I’m disappointed to see these exploits removed. I lose so much time when I pug these and one or two people know the exploit and try to force everyone else to do it. Things like this create division in party’s (skip the TA wolves and husks or fight them) and they usually result in someone doing something they didn’t sign up for. It’s worse when it’s an exploit and what could have been a “clean 5 minutes as it was intended attempt” turns into a 15 minute “failed exploit debacle”.

The “new” TA forward exploit is the latest in time wasting shortcuts that makes me wish people would stick to doing these things in organised and consenting groups instead of bringing it into the world of pugs.

Gillian.1859:

It shows that in the world of Tyria, nothing is weird about their relationship. They do not need to hide or risk getting beaten to death by an angry homophobic crazy person.

This triggered a thought for me. Tyria is supposed to be a place where people are welcomed and feel included. As players it’s supposed to be safe and enjoyable regardless of our personal characteristics (to a point). If their relationship faced discrimination (which is something many people would be able to relate to) it could subliminally send the message to players of that orientation “you are less welcome in Tyria” because those people see that view represented in the world. As much as I dislike how clean and politically correct Tyria can be, I can understand that sending the message to players that they are welcome in Tyria could potentially trump the desire to portray a more realistic or gritty world.

Shinoobi.1259:

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

There has been some foreshadowing of drama already.

Whether the relationship is same-sex or not is really not relevant to… well, anything.

Unfortunately, it is relevant when almost all same sex relationships in entertainment(books, tv, movies) end up terrible. They are commonly short lived and interrupted by death whether it’s murder, suicide, or an affair with someone of the opposite sex.

Is this kind of thinking restrictive? It seems to imply that this same sex couple shouldn’t be short lived or interrupted by death for fear of continuing an undesired trend. Having a special lens that you view a couple through because of its orientation (even if the intent is to avoid tropes and clichés) reinforces the idea that the couple is different and should have special rules in the first place. I’m on the fence on this one, on one hand it shouldn’t primarily define them or their relationship, on the other I think it’s good when a story recognises that while the differences between couples of any orientation aren’t as great as some people seem to think they are, it’s still OK to portray them differently (whether it be practical – the ability to reproduce as a pair, or cultural – the experience of prejudice).

It was weird seeing Rox refer to Marjory and Kasmeer as a mating pair. I would have expected a charr to have a more nature-channel approach to mates, as in, mating is a reproductive thing not a life partner thing (I probably don’t understand charr that well). If this theme keeps popping up on the forums (it’s made worse by the red posts), can you imagine what would happen if Marjory and Kasmeer adopted the orphaned Taimi?

MesmeForever.3612:

I do find it a bit off-putting that skins like this get released on a near-regular basis and can be sold on the TP for whatever price the community sets, yet again allowing players to gain a financial advantage in-game (which can, in turn, be used to gain a stat advantage through purchase of other items with that cash) if they’re richer in real life than other players are.
Sure, everyone has access to the same things — no one’s directly hobbled in the stat race — but some have wheels and an engine where others have to walk.

My concern is more along the lines that activities in the game feel less rewarding because the most desirable new content is in the gem store and very little of it gets added to the overall game. Those faction specific cyphers would be a lot more interesting if you could get faction specific weapons from them. The Living Story dungeons would have been a lot more rewarding if you could get the faction specific weapons from them (or armour sets). Instead the playable content feels poorly rewarded and the gem store is stacked. I wish they could find a different model or a better balance in the existing model that didn’t make gameplay rewards feel to starved.

I do think the new weapons are a little immersion breaking but in a world with the Dreamer it’s not the worst we’ve seen. I’m sure there are players that will absolutely love these and I’m glad they get to be happy.

The quality of the gem store weapon skins has consistently far surpassed what we’ve seen for the launch skins (especially compared to the majority of exotics). I can’t wait for an expansion where this quality of skins aren’t gem store privileges and this calibre of weapon design becomes a normal game reward more of us can enjoy without throwing out month’s of gold farming or a sizable chunk of your paycheck.

She’s where she usually is – the Crow’s Nest Tavern. She doesn’t update the story options though (at least not before you get into Edge of the Mists). Maybe they confused her with the Lionguard NPC next to Canach?

I think I recall reading that to get in with your friends you can all join at around the same time and that should place you together. I have no idea if there is a “join in overflow” option. I would be very surprised if it was difficult or uncommon to be placed in maps with other party members.

I do know that in the rest of the game if you enter any map with overflows, the game will put you in the same overflow as someone else in your party if there is space in that overflow (and no space on your home server). Whether or not it works this way for the new map we don’t know yet (the new map doesn’t work yet on the live servers).

Rhalas.4167:

https://twitter.com/GuildWars2/status/430796982249324544

Shouldn’t this be posted somewhere clearly visible on the official forums? Why is their community team more active on third party mediums for issues like this than they are on the official forums?

It makes me very happy to see that the big players in Tyria are involved in the story. It’s just not believable that everything revolves around the five lane NPCs. I wish this stuff was easier to see, I’ve sent a considerable amount of time in Bloodtide foraging between wurm runs and I’ve completed the Marionette several times and I haven’t seen either of these.

From what I understand, he is in the Edge of the Mists so you will have to wait until WvW goes back up to continue it. I suggest going about your normal activities.

I believe the instance updates as you complete the other Living World objectives (talk to the Lionguard, talk to Braham – which you can’t do until WvW updates). Once you complete the final parts of this update’s story outside of the bar (Taimi and Braham) I suspect they will join the others in the bar for more of an exposition dump. It was annoying that I couldn’t re-enter the bar after leaving it.

I think there is an intended order to do these things and if you break that order the instance becomes a little confusing. I went to Lion’s Arch first and the dialogue options I got in the bar afterwards felt like I missed the first few pages of the story. Everyone talked about this green light turning on despite me not previously establishing with any of these people that the green light was something to care about (or that the probe even existed – I knew that, but I didn’t talk to these people about it). It also appears as though it’s account based, so if you “mess up” the order on one character, it’s not possible to “correct” it on another (I’m assuming the order I did it in caused me to miss something, it’s possible everyone’s options are the same regardless of what they do).

I’m mostly confused about why I’m doing all of this with these people. After taking down an Elder Dragon I would have thought I was better connected in Tyria than this. I tried to do it again on my Priory character to see if Marjoy still has “Priory contacts” but I couldn’t get in. Does anyone know if we still rely on Marjory’s Priory contacts if you do the instance on a Priory character? I really wish the main characters were more prominent figures in Tyria, scenes like this would make more sense to me. I feel like I’m in a family movie where an ordinary suburban family foils a terrorist plot to take down the Whitehouse.

My overall tone was negative but I do like the increased weight of story in the content we are getting (even if I don’t like all the story or were the weight is distributed). I am beginning to feel like the cast are being forced onto me with all these exposition scenes being front and centre these last two releases. It’s nice to have character development but it’s so heavily weighted at the end of the story.

Yeah I’d love to have this. They mention they want to make the home instance more important and they also have all these random NPC conversations that are easy to miss. It would be great if the NPCs hung out at our home instance and every day when we log in, we use the portal stone to teleport right there, do our gathering and see if the NPCs have anything to say. Ambient dialogue would be much easier to see on a daily basis and it would be a good way to give meaning to the home instance and add some more exposition to the story. It’s not very conveneient waypointing to Craigstead, the Hatchery, Dead End Bar and our home instance every time you want to gather or see if the NPCs are saying anything. Add the conveneince of it acting like the HoM – teleport there from where ever you are for free and then you’re done, you teleport right out. I currently have to camp a character outside their home instance for the gathering nodes to be worthwhile.

Lasica.5068:

The Living Story seems better because while it has a group of NPCs involved in it they don’t take a lead role. It is your character taking the lead still.

I didn’t get that impression, can you tell me why you think we are taking the lead? It always seems to me like we are following the cast around, not the other way round. When we do accomplish something, the cast gets praise and the player seems to be forgotten. Look at Kiels recognition for Southsun (both in capturing Canache and solving the contract issue) and then her recognition for Sky Pirates. Now we have Rox getting praise for killing Tequatl but no recognition that we did that. When Marjory and Kasmeer were poking fun at Rox and Braham for letting Scarlet slip through their fingers, I wondered why they didn’t include the player.

The Personal Story usually had a debrief every 10 levels where you finished up that chapter of it and discussed what you did with the big wigs. I feel like that’s missing from Living Story – I want Logan and Rytlock to talk to me, not Rox and Braham.

I did notice subtle things like Braham saying mid fight with the marionette “I won’t give up if you don’t give up!” and Kasmeer says something similar. If nothing else, it was nice to be recognized by them, but when the post fight scene doesn’t include me and the story instance in LA doesn’t include me, it doesn’t feel like I’m part of the story. It feels like I’m watching their story (I get this is the Living Story and not the Personal Story). There are just trickles of recognition in the text chat from Braham and Rox, but I’d like to see more, especially if Scarlet is supposed to be viewed as a personal nemesis (it doesn’t feel personal to me).

Getting the player character voice actors back is something I look forward to a great deal. I really enjoyed side characters in GW1 (the heroes of Nightfall and EotN had some really engaging stories imo) and I was always happy to see the core henchmen pop up, even if they had almost nothing to do with the story, but I still like to have my character engaged. One of the neat things about GW1 side characters is that the cast was so large yet it never felt like the story became about them. Their stories mattered, but there was always a bigger picture.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Jeff Grubb explicitly stated that Abaddon (Not Abbadon) is dead and that his story is closed. John Stumme also stated that his story is closed, elaborating that they don’t want to dig the lore “deeper” by making everything tie into one point, but making it “wider” by having even more, and separate, stories in the same world.

We aren’t returning to Abaddon.

It’s funny they would say that and then do almost a year’s worth of stories all tied to Scarlet.

But yeah, I think Abaddon is unlikely. For all we know there is no mysterious figure behind it all, it’s still possible that Scarlet’s mind fractured and she imagined a big bad (I admit that would be really disappointing).

I don’t beleive authorities aren’t concerned. I’ve read in the game several times where their concern exists (for the record, telling Rox to take her down is weak, Scarlet is a huge threat, Rox is a low ranking charr on her own). I’ve seen Scarlet directly engage them in their back yard. What I don’t see is anyone of these organisations are the marionette. I agree it’s unfeasible to have everyone involved at the same time, which is why I believe it’s such a waste to have such a poorly positioned core cast. If you have limited numbers for the story, why blow them on small time characters? Why not pick the roles that best tell the story?

As far as defending their home territories – Marjory and Kasmeer were given the key roles in Tower of Nightmare, not Seraph despite it being their territory. Some soldiers were presence, but the story was firmly about Marjory and Kasmeer.

In the Personal Story the player gives Tyria every reason to look to them when it comes to Scarlet. By the end of the story you are one of the highest ranking Pact members and a slayer of an Elder Dragon. If I was taking on Scarlet, that’s a person I’d like to talk to.

As far as mass mobilization goes, it’s not exactly a long walk from Priory HQ. Even if you concede that Vigil or OoW couldn’t make it, why couldn’t the priory? Honestly, the location has enough infrastructure that someone should have noticed it long ago.

Are we even sure the Aetherblades are recruited from existing pirate groups? I was under the impression the air ships aren’t Inquest tech but rather they were stolen from the Pact.

I’ve never written Scarlet off as mad or not having a reason for doing what she does. I can’t really criticize her motivation yet because it hasn’t been revealed. I seriously doubt she has noble intentions (repeating Canach’s warped logic on a grander scale would be kind of lame) and as others have pointed out, she’s more destructive than she is constructive. I do dislike this false idea that she is freeing the sylvari from the chains of he Pale Tree. There is this false dichotomy that people seem to think the sylvari live by. The Dreamers an the Nightmare Court. The sylvari aren’t that simple, there are the Soundless and the countless other sylvari that become pirates or other less than noble professions counter to Venari’s teachings. If that’s hwe motivation she can stop now – the sylari are already free.

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

Yes. kitten story-stealer

I find it strange people hold Trahearne accountable for this yet people don’t raise the same point as often when it comes to Marjory, Kasmeer, Braham, Rox and Kiel. At least Trahearne constantly engaged the player and we held important positions in the Personal Story (and made all the big calls). In the Living Story the core cast are constantly taking center stage and taking all the credit while the player character is barely engaged at all.