Except at least 40% of the hype is already ruined by the leaks.
It’s all good and well knowing what wepaon and general idea a new species has but until the actual details of each trait, skill and new class mechanic are there there will still be plenty of room for hype.
I wouldn’t say that GS has higher survivability than dagger as it’s very subjective to the activity you are doing. For instance there are some things you can solo with a dagger that you wouldn’t be able to with a GS.
the reason condi are too strong, is that differently from power build, you cant outkite them. Lets say you eat a power burst, even if you survive at 15% of hp, you can still recover by kiting, block, use your evade frames skills ecc…, cuz to kill you power build will have to hit you again after their burst. Instead, against condi builds, if you eat the burst AND you have not enough condi cleanses, you are gonna die, since condi will tick when you are kiting, and since every farth condi players do, will still apply others little condis!
Problem with this biased hypothetical scenario is that the power build doesn’t do enough damage to kill you yet the condi build does. If you eat a sufficient amount of attacks from either damage type you will die. If you get hit by enough attacks that cause you to tick out and die you would have already been downed by a power player.
Being hit by strong attack(s) and taking an instant 6k damage and then kiting to survive is no different by being hit by strong condi attack(s) then taking 1~2k damage over the next 3~6k. Kiting or not the damage has technically already been dealt.
That said, Hammer Bolt does need a nerf of some kind to its damage. This shouldn’t happen against an ascended/maxed medium player with an AA from 1500 away. As you can see the rest of the damage I was taking was totally normal so it’s not like I was missing armor or anything to be deceptive on the screen. I’m a ridiculously durable thief as well with +8k health; That AA would have likely one-shotted an exotic-wearing thief in non-toughness/vit gear.
I think hammer bolt is a straight flying projectile and is 1200 range unless that has been changed.
Secondly hammer Bolt itself isn’t inherently strong since it’s damage coefficient is only 0.95. it in itself is fine as a skill. What makes it strong is all the self sufficient damage modifiers revs have access to via traits that will almost triple the next attacks damage under the right circutnaces then also having one of the highest ferocity and crit chance in the game due to aura and GM trait.
I’m lost on some of you saying “it would need to be tweaked”
Umm no it wouldn’t and this wouldn’t make it op
Depending on game mode and build you are looking at anywhere from 19.2k~37kHP and anywhere from 13k~29.6k shroud, equating to 26k~ 59k due shroud inate -50% damage reduction to everything including falling damage. You would functionally be immortal.
Right before you drop to 50% HP pop SA.
Proceed to not die for 9s.
Enter Shroud until its gone, under pressure anywhere from 1~10s+.
Apply counter pressure or heal/kite if reaper. Exit shroud, drop below 50% hp..trigger Last Gasp.
Proceed to not die for 9s.
Heal with heal skill/incoming healing from others.
Enter Shroud until its gone, under pressure anywhere from 1~10s+.
Apply counter pressure or heal/kite if reaper.
Exit shroud…do normal things for X amount of seconds because SA is not off cooldown.
Get pressured enough, use SA. Proceed to not die for 9s..
Enter Shroud until its gone, under pressure anywhere from 1~10s+.
Apply counter pressure or heal/kite if reaper.
Survive for 10~20s.
If you drop below 50% HP trigger Last Gasp. Proceed to not die for 9s.
…You get the idea.
Make it end when ds is full and activates it problem solved
Looking at what i quoted that counts as a tweak. Point is showing how that if its not tweaked in ANY way this change would be dumb.
I’m lost on some of you saying “it would need to be tweaked”
Umm no it wouldn’t and this wouldn’t make it op
Depending on game mode and build you are looking at anywhere from 19.2k~37kHP and anywhere from 13k~29.6k shroud, equating to 26k~ 59k due shroud inate -50% damage reduction to everything including falling damage. You would functionally be immortal.
Right before you drop to 50% HP pop SA.
Proceed to not die for 9s.
Enter Shroud until its gone, under pressure anywhere from 1~10s+.
Apply counter pressure or heal/kite if reaper. Exit shroud, drop below 50% hp..trigger Last Gasp.
Proceed to not die for 9s.
Heal with heal skill/incoming healing from others.
Enter Shroud until its gone, under pressure anywhere from 1~10s+.
Apply counter pressure or heal/kite if reaper.
Exit shroud…do normal things for X amount of seconds because SA is not off cooldown.
Get pressured enough, use SA. Proceed to not die for 9s..
Enter Shroud until its gone, under pressure anywhere from 1~10s+.
Apply counter pressure or heal/kite if reaper.
Survive for 10~20s.
If you drop below 50% HP trigger Last Gasp. Proceed to not die for 9s.
…You get the idea.
The bolts dolts do heal you but they don’t count as incoming or outgoing healing so do not show in the combat log. If you do whirl in a dark field you will see random 170’s pop up. They are almost impossible to see if you sue blood magic or a build heavily utilising blighters boon and spite might generation
what Flow meant is that spectral armor doesn’t give life force when conditions tick on you. Which is correct, because OP post is a total lie.
The way the OP reads I felt it was implied that you are still getting hit for it to work the way described. because everyone knows spectral armour doesn’t function against the ticking of conditions. Just worded badly in places.
I tried it with some conditions i got from npcs in PvE, and I tried it with self inflicted corruption condis in both PvE and HotM. Spectral Armor did nothing.
Conditions don’t appear out of nowhere. Spectral armour grants LF when in shroud when getting hit. Shroud lasts longer. Shroud has natural-50% condi damage. e.g you can soak up way more condi burst with SA than without
yeah but still extremely weak compared to other classes which can invuln or block entire end-of-the-world type of damage
Its reactionary since those two methods of defence do not work against conditions already applied to you. There are 5 things i believe in game that mitigate condition damage instead of negating it and necro have 3 of these, 2 of which are incredibly available and require almost no investment.
i just tried and you are correct, so its not only direct damage.
still, there are much more sources of direct dmg reduction that stack together so shroud protects better against it
True. Though damage mitigation has diminishing returns due to how it functions multiplicitivly.
Popping shroud and using infusing terror will reduce incoming damage and condition damage by 60% which is fairly big.
yes shroud reduces direct damage by 50% (baseline so it doesn’t count for active reductions)
thats why conditions melt death shroud very fast and direct damage just fast.
Last I tested it also halved condition damage. Easy to test in the mists with self inflicted conditions while in shroud and see how much you lose with Condi on Vs how much you lose naturally every second.
Off-hand weapons are generally interchangeable dependant on what you want to do/need where. I do make a bunch of small alterations dependant on a few things.
Been using dagger religiously since we heard new of expac 2 since I wont be able to use a GS always and its a very good weapon.
the only thing condi players sacrifice is power thats it unless your vipers amulet.
almost all of the PvP amulets only have 1/2 defensive stat and 2/3 offensive ones. I believe paladins and sage are the only two that don’t follow this with vit/toughness or healing power/vit respectively.
Your content wouldbe a lot better/less annoying if instead of your build videos you just used a link to the build in the gw2 build editor.
Would also help explain the build better since there are a lot of different small choices you can make with this set up dependant on enemy/team composition.
Boon and Condition Conversion
Boon to condition conversion and condition to boon conversion has been standardized and is functionality changed. Skills that convert boons and conditions now randomly select from all boons and conditions on the target.
I do not think this has been changed since June 23rd 2015.
I thought the same, though the wiki currently says conditions are first on, last off. That text may be old (having never reflected the June 2015 patch), or maybe it was reverted. May need to be tested.
Just to point out a mistake here though, stability is not always corrupted first. Like conditions they changed it to last in first out. So good warriors can cover stability or resistance with other boons. But the larger point that the pulsing stab nerf hit warriors hard in this matchup is correct.
Boon and Condition Conversion
Boon to condition conversion and condition to boon conversion has been standardized and is functionality changed. Skills that convert boons and conditions now randomly select from all boons and conditions on the target.
I do not think this has been changed since June 23rd 2015.
People complain that many classes have underperfoming skills and anet should fix it.
Anet starts giving underperforming skills some love.
People complain that the skills aren’t meta anyway and therefore may as well just not have been buffed.
This
Also the pvp team and the balance team are different groups last i recall and the pvp team only has so much say. Since the tech change they can do more splits but there was a list of things they could do to a skill but i cant find the list. its very limited but if they continue to make small tweaks like this slightly more frequently then thats a good thing.
Heh I never will understand how not many necros use blood trait. It’s by far the most under used trait. I have my power based blood build that melts all classes.
Underused? Don’t you mean over used? And if you are melting people with blood magic, those people are bad.
i wouldn’t say blood magic is objectively that bad these days.
i actually did test it myself long before this thread was made. if you are getting these numbers it means you’re not using the same buff setup or you’re cheating with night sigil/writ of strength. so again, i am believable and you are not.
a) no need to be so hostile.
b) what recording software do you use? I never recorded my gameplay before.
Here are a few differences between my rotation and yours. Very very minor though.I can guarantee you it’s just standard stuff. I’ll prove it as soon as I know what’s good to record with.
feel free to drop a video confirming these claims, otherwise your credibility is low and i dont really believe you.
How about you test it for yourself. I didnt believe the video so i did just that. 24.3k all you do is camp GS, use 4 and your 2 wells off cooldown but always complete your auto attack chain before performing your next action. Its that simple. You should get 3 auto attack chains per grave digger above 50%. Also with grave digger you need to make sure you get the auto attack cancel so you can spam it faster and try and stand in your target to get the most from leeching bolts. Not only is the rotation easier compared but from results it equal to higher damage and isnt field dependant.
As a side note: I went and bought the soup and the sharpening stone and it rose to about 25k on average, still missing about 80 power from infusions so 25.5~26k should be possible. Also the difference between blood and SR for me is extremely minimal to the point of around 100 dps for me. In a party scenario blood would result in overall more damage.
Farbstoff likes to minmax, grind and theorycraft the necro rotations, this channel is the go-to for all top dps rotas as of today
Considering I’m using the same buffs but im missing about 100 power due to food and infusions, only 2/18 because I am lazy, and I match/slightly beat this dps with blood/SR simply by using auto attacks with GS and dropping wells and nightfall at the right time and then grave digger spam below 50% i wouldnt say its incredibly efficient for how comparatively complex this rotation is.
I suppose that video was more a “Hey axe can be used” rather than anything super serious.
There’s absolutely nothing about Death Shroud anymore that makes it worth.
You miss 6 whirl finishers on top of aoe poison.
You miss 20% dmg and condi dmg reduction.
You miss an aoe fear.
You miss a chill field.
You miss faster auto atks incase you thought burning is nice.
There’s not 1 build that works with Death Shroud, not for power and not for condi.
If power, you can’t use greatsword and if condi you miss your biggest condi dmg: bleed.
You can just as easily say you miss stuff when taking reaper. Goes both ways.
You miss whatever traitline you gave up
You miss 1200 range instant fear
You miss 600 radius 5s reveal
You miss aoe immobilise.
You miss a a strong ranged homing attack
You miss LoS ignoring 600 radius attack
etc etc
Reaper and its shroud is designed for melee combat. DS is more of a medium to long range shroud. You will have an easier time not being kited on DS than RS.
Also really depends on what game mode you are in since the OP didnt specify.
Even with speculation and little information there are some things we can guarantee since they are trends in every trait-line we have and every shroud so far.
Shroud
Shroud 1 is usually a strong auto attack with a fairly decent power coeff. It likely wont apply a condition or a boon.
Shroud 2 will be a gap closer/opener of some sort.
Shroud 3 will fear because of all the fear.
Shroud 4 will be a multi hit ability.
Shroud 5 will be some sort hard/soft CC.
At least 1 of the above will generate LF in some way.
Traits
At least 1 trait will do something when entering/exiting shroud
At least 1 trait will have a persistent effect while in shroud.
By design each line of a E-spec represents an aspect of it. Top/Mid/Bot all follow similar themes. Being able to play one of those off the bat then fleshing it out feels better to me. Plus it was probably changed because of the complaint that the specs didn’t feel useful when you were unlocking them.
Looking at the wheel you will get all the minors and the top trait-line followed by the heal. Completes aspect number 1. Then things are worked in complete aspect batches surrounded by utility skills probably to introduce you do a different aspect of the spec in its full gradually.
Since you shared that image, I decided to look closer and something doesn’t quite make sense.
It appears as though you unlock your weapon, then your first minor trait, then a tier 1 major trait and then… another minor trait? To make things stranger, it appears as though you would unlock all 3 minor traits before you even get your first utility skill!
If this is how the final release will play out, it’s gonna suck for revenants.
It pretty much means you can play the spec more completely a little faster since you get all the minors pretty quick.
I ended up switching back from GS S/SR/Re to dagger S/Bl/Re for a few reasons in open world. The dagger trait means I dont need to run signet of the locust and can use another utility.
Also dagger adds a bunch of survivability. #2 when you + the life siphon can heal you for 4~5k+. Incase people didnt know the dagger trait procs at the end of the cast of a skill not before so as long as using this skill puts you over 75% hp when it ends it will have a 8s cool-down. Also has 600 range so can back off which still doing damage. Also has a coeff of 3.24 when things are bleeding which isnt too bad for what it does.
Its no GS for raw output but I can solo stuff I wouldn’t otherwise be able to and the extra utility freedom is pretty cool.
Just wish they would lower the lf gain per strike and reduce the aftercast like thief since you cant even stow weapon the almost half second after the chain ends. Necro originally had the stronger dagger auto as well as this would go a long ways to improving Necro dps, fluidity and D/F as a strong weapon set.
Just going to agree to disagree. Clearly have different views. Also if you cant get axe #2 to hit harder than 6k you are doing something wrong.
Between Protection, Weakness, or some random active defense/CC stopping part of the channel, it’s really not difficult to see how 6k is an incredibly typical cap at any play level other than the lowest.
Must be how I play because 6k is fairly mid range for me.
Close to death is arguably a good pick instead of spiteful spirit because of how broken spiteful spirit currently is.
Also necromancer generate more vulnerability than most classes by relatively doing nothing at all if you take the spite trait-line. There are the crit chance traits as well, they are huge modifiers. Also the amount of might necro passively tend to generate when traited for spite is again a huge modifier since it requires relatively no effort or investment.
Well see our might access and vulnerability access is precisely why our damage is so poor.
Power necro’s damage coefficients and modifiers are balanced around power necro generating 25 stacks of might and 25 stacks of vulnerability.
The problem with this is that in PvP you don’t get consistent target uptime which means you can’t get those 25 stacks of might and vuln. I run a power necro with Runes of Hoelbrak and Sigil of Courage. That’s pretty much the maximum might gain you can get and yet I find that I spend most of my time sub 15 stacks of might, the exception being while in shroud where I can get the stacks.
I would say what you are pointing out only has strong precedence in PvE. Because there those things are readily available and the lack of other mods ends up overall weaker. As long as you have that traitline, which is the classic power damage traitline you have to invest pretty much nothing more. No blast finishers, no elixirs nothing. Same with crit chance, relatively little investment to hit 100% one of 3 ways.
I wouldn’t say up time is a huge issue either because the application and generation is incredibly rapid.
Also the coefficients on necromancer skills arent that low. Some are actually incredibly high. Look at the new ghastly claws. This ability is the strongest single target ability necromancer has and is one of the strongest damaging abilities in game in the PvP game mode.
I just disagree with
You realize necro has no damage modifiers on our trees right?
Close to death is arguably a good pick instead of spiteful spirit because of how broken spiteful spirit currently is.
Also necromancer generate more vulnerability than most classes by relatively doing nothing at all if you take the spite trait-line. There are the crit chance traits as well, they are huge modifiers. Also the amount of might necro passively tend to generate when traited for spite is again a huge modifier since it requires relatively no effort or investment.
Vulnerability isn’t that uncommon even running on your own. It’s incredibly easy as necromancer to stack high and long lasting vulnerability with a majority of our weapons or traits.
Also why are you mentioning a staff skill when you are comparing axe and dagger? Do you mean blood bond?
near 6k heal on 2 is fun.