I guess it depends on if ~8 seconds of dagger auto +Feast of Corruption/20 seconds will be enough to sustain life force in longer fights.
8s of dagger auto under full quickness is about 45~53% LF with Soul Reaping.
The build has 0 vit so will have 79.35% of 21012 as LF meaning 16673.
Considering that with alacrity:
F2 is ~8.3% of your LF every 3s
F3 is ~15% of your LF every 4.8s
F4 is ~28% of your LF every 9s
and more importantly
F5 is ~22% of your LF every 12s
You should end up running out of LF fairly quickly. if you use your abilities too much. There is also less room for error if things move and you have wasted your shade placement/miss a shade skill.
Power Scourge is sweet because of its ability to upkeep boons for free with Feed From Corruption and some Concentration. It also has some nice burst between Desert Shroud and Spiteful Spirit. It’s just another way to play the class, and I’m excited for the possibilities.
Please tell me why a purely Condition focused Elite would go a power route?
So we can complain about the terrible damage, obviously.
I wish I put Condition Builds only now in the title. I don’t understand why anyone would think to go Power with Scourge other than to run a special snowflake build.
I edited it now.
You can do quite the amount of power damage providing things are standing in your shades. MSS auto isnt weak.
There is no cap on how much power damage you can take at any given time nor for how many sources can deal it to you. No reason it should be any different for condition damage.
The biggest issue with condi is how it is applied. In a power build, the majority of the skills you have to physical hit your opponent. Your opponent can block, dodge, stack armor, reflect, etc. With condi, the majority of it is applied by aoes. Its a brain-dead meta.
Both damage types need to hit. Both suffer from your list of stuff, block etc. Both have a bunch of single target and aoe attacks. Trying to say one has more of one is a bad argument. because it isnt true.
Why? And they still are doing their damage over time.
If someone lands 3-4 strong abilities on your be it power or condi you should take significant damage in a timely manner. i.e eating a 10~15K spike from power or eating a spike from condi and ticking down 2~3k for the next 6 seconds.
There has to be a universal armor against condition damage. One type of damage shouldn’t have a means of mitigation while another doesn’t. Imagine if the armor stat didn’t exist and all direct damage inflicted their full amounts. That’s what conditions do unless you’re on of the few classes who have traits that reduce condi damage.
You mitigate power damage and their are a few sources of negation. You negate condi damage and there are a few sources of mitigation. The last 2 sentences are an awful analogy that completely disregards duration and cleanses.
and scourge is all about barrier and barrier sharing, so some sort of healing power is going to be there
It really isn’t.
Back on topic. Half the problem with people disliking conditions is at no point does the game actually teach you what they do correctly. There aren’t sufficient mobs early enough that attack you with conditions that people learn. It fosters certain mentalities.
Also the mentality that one damage type has to be X and cant do Y is baffling. They both do the same thing albeit over slightly differently. Both can burst, sustain, poke etc.
Lastly people complain about the wrong things. If a power skill/build is over-preforming people tend to say well this skill is too strong. When a condi build/ skill is over-preforming the entire mechanic is obviously broken, not just that particular build/skill.
Well then, that’s not really scaling by vit is it. I think it would be better if it did, unless they’ve planned around some behind the curtain situations.
Its strength scales from healing power. It’s maximum value scales from health. Since health scales from vit max barrier scales from vit as well.
Assumimg you mean on scourge. Any trait that affected shroud 1-4 works on F1-4 respectively. Traits that works on entering or exiting shroud work on F5.
You arnt supposed to be able to clear them all all the time.
You arent supposed to be able to stack burning to 3k with only auto attacks, but here we are
Not even sure about this one because if you ate enough auto attacks to get 8 stacks of burning that way you would have taken significant damage from either damage type.
The name and sand theme all come from stuff around Palawa Joko
So everything is new things they have come up with for GW2 path of fire? Cus i don´t remember Palawa Joko ever using anything related to sand in GW1. Except him being a mummy and form Elona.
I´m sure Palawa Joko is more known for blood magic and undead summoning in GW1 then sand stuff.
They stated that the necromancer is rejecting Jokos method of necromancy in the desert and finding an alternate approach to the magic type given the surroundings.
Also one of the names Joko goes by is “Scourge of Vabbi”. So the naming and the theme is not a coincidence. Pretty much all the specs have something either desert related or tired to the region. Be in sand or Elonian lore.
I’m of the mindset that if I hit you with my strongest abilities/eat a full combo you should die in a reasonable time frame. Be in near instant with power or over the next few seconds with conditions.
The only way this should ever happen is if you have to trait for it and its incredibly minor because dagger already has a role Anet is trying to carve out for it.
Its probably far more likely they will just add stat combos to the game that would allow the weapon to fit into a scourge condi build like the grevious stats they have shows.
There has to be an opportunity cost somewhere somehow.
In PvE, minions will also hold aggro giving a Scourge a fixed location to drop shades, which may be more beneficial than first appears.
In open-world group PvE, Bone Minion has projectile finishers and stays ranged so its dps is also good.
However, I suspect the new elites are being tweaked so the utilities may be improved. Wells may also be reasonable alternative utilities for Scourge, especially in WvW.
wait what !?! Bone minion have projectile finisher o.O do we play the same game
(sorry for not remembering the EXACT same number, at the exact digit, what a pityful human I am…)
Yes. It wasn’t exactly hard to look them up now was it? That’s something you do when you want to accurately prove a point instead of exaggerating. I played trailblazer scourge in WvW all weekend and i get some of your points but stuff like the exaggeration makes you hard for others to believe.
no condi removal with that scourge zerg..
cant even cast ur barriers.
a) they can trait to remove condi on barrier as well as clear/convert 2 conditions every 4~5s for them and 5~20 people. b) The two best barrier skills are instant.
They made good guides which are actually really helpful, so thanks to them for that. Seems the Fractal developer agrees.
They run a speedclearing guild, and Necromancer’s are not optimal for speedclearing so they don’t want any. Let them run a guild how they want to.
These two things are completely unrelated, and so your post is grasping at straws to justify whatever point you’re trying to make.
Click on the Necromancer class guide on their site and tell me what happens.
“Thanks for making these!”
If thats what you took from it you missed the point of the thanks.
You’re mixing a guilds personal feelings towards a class and what the devs are actually thanking them for. The two things, like Rising said, are completely unrelated. You’re trying to make it that the devs condoning how the guild personally look at necro and not how inherently useful videos detailing mechanics etc are for people who either find an encounter difficult etc.
You are literally trying to make it something its not.
We have been slowly moving over the last year to being purely condi meta.
Condi damage mostly come from ranged attacks or non avoidable projectiles/AOEs. Power damage requires much more precision to land damage.
Power damage is subject to much more damage reduction mechanics. Toughness. Protection, which is easily to obtain and maintain on most classes. Several classes has mechanics to limit or stop power damage. Condi? Not much. Resistance is only usable by Warriors and Rev, and is only reliable for Rev to stop condi. Then you have cleanse.. which is all or nothing mechanic..
Lastly, it seems condi damage is becoming more and more AOE based damage now between Necros, Thieves and Rev. Just spam the point with multiple conditions. Power builds on the other hand either lack the AOE capacity and do not benefit from stacking the way condi damage does.
In 1v1 or 2v2 condi damage vs power damage are fairly balance. More than that the condi AOE spamming + AOE CC render everything else obsolete. Why bother with accurately landing power attacks when you can spam an area continuously with tens of condis? It is not uncommon to get hit by 15-20 condi in under 5 sec. This is broken..
Cleanse….literally….just cleanse
the only professions that can dish out constant condi damage like that are guardians and necro and even then they cant keep up the stacks once you completely cleanse (which isn’t hard)
Thief has poison, guard has burn, and Mesmer has confusion
Just watch those specific stacks depending on class (necro has bleed btw), then cleanse once those specific stacks are high enough
OMG, if u have these conditions in the following order: chill, blind, 7 stack of torment, vul and 20 stack of bleeds. You use a skill that cleanse 3 conditions, i will cleanse chill, blind and 7 stacks of torment, not the 20 stack of bleeds. You can not cleanse a specific stack….
As conditions are applied exactly how they read vertically down a skill , if on tooltip, then traits/on-hit ;the only problem I see with your explanation of LIFO is there is no class that would apply conditions in that specific order. The likelihood is you will catch 1 or 2 damage conditions if you use a skill that cleanses 3.
Now how the heck does a skill with a base damage of 928 go to over 10K?
Wiki doesn’t use ascended equipment for any of its calculations. Also its based off of how the game calculates its tooltips meaning it uses 2600 armour. So saying “base damage of 928” isnt accurate at all.
Technically with an ascended rifle against 2000 armour it has a “base” damage of 1138~1392. This is with no power at all. Its not hard to see how it hit you so hard with an average power+ferocity investment for a power focused build.
The other thing to keep in mind… Barrier decays at a fixed rate, right (just thinking this seemed to be the case)? So, barrier scales with vitality both in size and duration?
Barrier scales with healing power not vitality
How much barrier you can have is dictated by vitality. How much barrier abilities grant is dictated by healing power.
3 shades should not work on a single target (mentioned by devs). more than one target, far away from each other, changes everything tho.
Last I remember the actual attack “Manifest Sand Shade” could hit multiple times on the same targets but any other effects were caused only once. i.e 2 boons converted not 4~8 or 1s of fear not 4s.
Anyways in large scale WvW Savant is much better than the smaller shades for several reasons.
Slight of Hand
“Stealing also dazes the target. Reduces the recharge of Steal.” “If this trait and Bountiful Theft are both used, Bountiful Theft’s boon steal will trigger before the daze.”
Bountiful Theft “Prioritizes aegis over other boons, followed by stability, protection, regeneration, retaliation, fury, swiftness, might, resistance, quickness and vigor.”
so 7 pulses and each one heals for about 200 health. So basically you get 1.4k health over 7 seconds.
If the healing is only 200 per tick, that means it’s significantly reduced for scourge. While the number of ticks differs between reaper and base necro, the heal value stays the same.
Not sure if you guys are intentionally not noticing that the ability is only healing him for 207 HP since that is a) exactly how much the bleed is doing to him and b) exactly the amount that returns him to max health.
It will scale and heal as transfusion does now. He seems to get about 7 pulses out of it if you watch closely so it ends up at 2044+(2.1*HP)
Given what we’ve seen from today’s stream, Scourge barriers need MASSIVE buffs if they are going to survive at all in PvP.
To be fair he did not have much healingpower at all. From the bleeding ticks he had around 1300ish condition damage. That means he had a Condition damage main stat amulet, and there currently is no such amulet in pvp that also provides healing power at all. But yeah, i agree, the rate the barrier seems to decay is rather harsh.
He has no healing power beyond last rights. So 150. Some of the barrier skills scale well with healing power.
Barrier scaling will probably see pvp scaling splits since in WvW hitting 1~3 skills and granting 20 people 5~12k barrier is fairly decent. Considering the 20 target cap and always being out of shroud parasitic Parasitic Contagion will see some decent use as well as transfusion and life from death.
Two things:
1. Sand Savant dumps the ammo mechanic for a proper cool down, so Vital Persistence may work.
We have never seen the trait being used so we don’t know this. I’m going to assume it still has charges but you can only have one shade up but still 3 charges. Again it’s weird that the base version wouldn’t work with a trait but a trained version would.
Why would it have charges when you can only have one up anyway? Especially when the cool down is so short compared to duration? Plus, I think in WP’s video where we first saw it, greater shade had a proper cool down.
Watch WPs video around 01:50:00 and you can see when he slots sand savant manifest sand shade still has a count and therefore charges.
Why have charges? Benefit from casting it with traits probably.
Two things:
1. Sand Savant dumps the ammo mechanic for a proper cool down, so Vital Persistence may work.
We have never seen the trait being used so we don’t know this. I’m going to assume it still has charges but you can only have one shade up but still 3 charges. Again it’s weird that the base version wouldn’t work with a trait but a trained version would.
This only applies to punishment utility skills for scourges. Everything else including unending corruption is generic.
There is no main mechanic as it should be played. If you refer to shades then again unending corruption is 1-3 boons corrupted and path of corruption is still the same just more accessible since you don’t need to enter shroud.
We also don’t know how the Greater Sand Shade interacts (or doesn’t) with Vital Persistence.
[&BpKvAAA=].Base shade doesnt seem to be affected by VP so doubt it will be. Unless its a change they made for the release build.
Using Dagger 3 into F2 provides you with 11.5 seconds of Vigor (assuming you have the Shade up).
Probably wont need to cast a shade to do this since the effects happen around you as well. Think mesmer shatters.; everything happens around you and the shade. Though bear in mind F2 is a conversion not a removal, meaning it is completely random as to what gets converted. Any more than 2 conditions and there is no guarantee you will hit what you need.
Yo zol
Tried not fully casting gs5 but interrupting after 1/3 of cast (:
If you stow weapon gravedigger finishes right as they are finished being pulled. No time to react. Seldom use GS though since dagger is better for my build.
Could you please just use the build editor. Even if its not completely up to date people still understand what trait does what and what run and amulet do what. People really get put off from watching a 1min video and having to fast forward and pause and etc etc
