(edited by Sigmoid.7082)
Why would anyone take foot in the grave? The build already has two stun breaks and two sources of stability its a waste of potential damage. Signets of Suffering i more important for clutch situations corrupting stability or resistance. The trait you spoke of shouldn’t even be a grand master trait, its weak.
I just want to point out a few things:
with foot in the grave:
- foot in the grave lets you take more ccs and allows you to act when using shroud as a panic button instead of just having to sit there while its beat down and you do nothing till its gone and be no better off
spiteful spirit is actually more useful than thought, especially if you use axe:
- it makes you a little harder to kite in shroud and retaliation is good for multi hitting attacks like death-spiral or blurred frenzy. The trait by itself can provide 100% up-time on it. easier when combined with axe. It also has, over time, better boon corrupt.
- You can potentially heal yourself for just under 1k for entering shroud alone
- This one is interesting as it has an interesting interaction between chilling victory, blighters boon and sigil of hydromancy. The following are all up to. The combination nets you up to 15s of retaliation, 10 stacks of might, 15% lf and 10 procs of blighters boon on shroud swap—————————-This is because of the following reason. The hydromancy sigil and its own chill proc before shroud is entered hence 5 might, 5% from CV and 5% from BB since the game considers this all one attack for the purpose of CVs 1s ICD. You then get another 5% from SS because its all one attack from SS. SS happens AFTER shroud is entered hence you gain 5 procs of BB from retaliation and 5 from the might gained from SS interacting with CV totalling 10 procs of BB
- Its technically an axe skill and will do 10% more damage if axe is traited, which will always happen if you have hydromancy and bitter chill but..
- Its damage is still tied to the weapon you’re using, this means you can get some high crits with this with a staff /GS due to higher base weapon damage. It can lead to some very good shroud burst from SS+SH+CN+CoD ( depending on what you have traited, can lead to some nasty damage)
Blind. Negating the next attack of the enemy who gets inflicted with it. Available for necromancers/reapers.
So basically, saying that necromancer doesn’t have any mechanic to negate attacks is false.
And how much blind can a Reaper get? Let’s see. There’s GS 4, Dagger 4, SoS, WoD, Plague 2, Fury boon corruption… Guess how many of those are used in the current meta?
The only thing used in the meta is signet corruptions. And it’s a bit RNG because you might not corrupt Fury. The only reliable way to blind as a Reaper right now is to make sure your target actually always has fury (which is bad because it increases their damage) and no more than 2-3 boons.
Nobody runs GS, SoS, WoD, Dagger 4. And the Corruptions line doesn’t allow the use of Plague Signet, and you don’t provide enough utility to make up for the lack of tankiness.
passive mitigation = f3, f2, heal trap, mace 3, focus 5, shield 4, aegis trap, renewed focus, medis
i guess passive mitigation means whatever we want it to mean now a days
What about Aegis passively every 10 seconds from unused F3?
What about the 808-1250 heal (depending on amulet) every 3 seconds from the elite signet?
What about the 400-550 heal (depending on amulet) every 3 seconds from unused F2?
What about the block integral to sword 3, the DH’s primary burst?
You demonstrate your knowledge of the class very poorly..also what the word passive meant. Besides the very nature of virtues is that they are passive and they have been since the start so complaining about them…anyways:
unused f3 isn’t every 10s…its every 40 or 30 when traited
the heal on the elite signet’s interval isnt every 3s…its every 10..besides its being terrible..
the resolve passive isn’t that strong..( 84 + 6% of healing power )
sword #3 isnt passive by nature because you have to use sword number 3 to gain the block…
last season everyone said dh sucks and traps were only for stomping noobs.
this season, after traps received no buff what so ever, they are now the biggest problem in the game. “guard wars 2” " worst meta ever" " guard ruined my game"
guard really only got three new things and a bunch of QOL/cooldown changes.
Power damage doesn’t tick for a few thousand when you’re evading or blocking. I don’t mean to act like a smart kitten , it’s just how I feel about the whole thing.
Yeah but did you get hit though? Thats the point!
If you evaded or blocked the hit you wouldn’t be taking any ticking damage…
If you start blocking after being hit by a 5k eviscerate you don’t expect to suddenly not to take any damage from the hit by the 5k eviscerate do you?
You have taken the hit, you are taking the damage be it instant or taking the next 4s to do its damage…
The way I, personally feel about the whole thing is that condition damage itself is manageable, the problem appears when you end up in a match against 3 reapers and 2 condi warriors on the other team. That scenario isn’t that uncommon nowadays, just because playing those builds is so easy.
So its a problem fighting two condi users cause you cant mitigate all the damage and die but its not a problem fighting two power users and ….again not being able to mitigate the damage and die.
3. …I said 10-15% overall nerf. learn to do basic math: 5-7.5% nerf on both S/F and Sc/Sh = 10-15%.
Before you insult someones math be sure you do it right yourself. A 5% nerf on one set and a 5% nerf on another is still a 5% nerf overall not 10%..
e.g
100 → 95 for set one
100 → 95 for set two
200 → 190 overall
Its done the way it is so specs have individuality, identity as well as do you know in gw1 with every expansion they had skills that were so similar or just better versions of existing things.
the skill count may have been high but so was the amount of skills that were totally redundant.
it also makes balance much MUCH easier. you only need to balance x/y/z/a/b/c elite spec vs core trait lines instead of against all the others. it keeps everything core relevant instead of making it totally redundant over time and keep the class identity and individuality that x/y/z/a/b/c elite spec is supposed to bring.
The only real problem condition ability in the game is skill grinder solely because of the order it applies it’s conditions in and warriors lack of other sources of confusion.
People have a fair lack of understanding about how condition application and removal really works because nowhere in game does it actually explain clearly.
If you lose to guardians, you’re just getting outplayed, really. The class is 100% balanced. That’s why solo queuers are only queuing with guardian.
I know you tried to be sarcastic, but turth is class is not 100% balanced it still need some boosts to be competitive at esl levels.
And yes I prefer having dhs in team over newbie players that can’t do a kitten.
btw guardians don’t have reflects at least not using reflect wall.
I don’t know, I got my longbow shots reflected by a big bubble. Might have been something else. All I know is, it needs a nerf.
that would be the scrapper gyro…
at least know what you’re complaining about before you complain.
or perhaps actually knowing what skills do is too 420dorito for you?
Or how about you get off your high horse you pedantic neckbeard?
It was a giant blue bubble with him as the epicenter, moving around him. It reflected a shot. No scrapper present.
unless your opponent started mlg420dorito#360noscope hacking the game, it is literally impossible for a guardian “bubble” skill to reflect projectiles.
again, how about you learn about what you’re complaining about before you complain?
okay, let’s cherry pick my entire argument for the one flaw :^)
which is a minor one, but I still ate my own point blank shot from a guardian.
Thought the only guardian reflect skills is wall of reflection.
Also if it wasn’t that, just so you know, there are several ways to gain magnetic aura.
There is that glitch or issue what some use in arena.Every class has certain condition which does apply example mesmer.Mesmer has no chill no poison so some players take rune or sigil to apply those,when you do cleanse those poison or chill take priority so the torment or confusion are not cleansed and you busted.There was a discussion cant remember few months ago some guys where mentioning what you pointed out here and its being used the way i described.And still not taken under look by anet.
There is no glitch or issue with how conditions are removed and it has been the same way since the game started. Unless the skill converts conditions or specifically states it removes a certain type then the next condition to be removed will always be the stack of the last one that was applied be it 1 stack of vuln or adding another stack to that 15 bleeds you have.
It is not being overlook by Anet since it hasn’t changed. Its working as intended as has been since the start of the game.
Let me explain very clearly and it will help you understand exactly why skills like skull grinder is overtuned:
- A skill will apply conditions in the order that they read down a skill, traits included as long as they add to the skills description
- After this its any on hit effects since they are applied after the hit e.g certain traits or sigils. I believe sigils are left to right /top down
- Then its the traits that are stated such as deathly chill.
Using skull grinder as a specific example in the meta build with the appropriate sigils. assuming they all proc skull grinder applies bleed THEN confusion THEN cripple THEN vulnerability/torment THEN torment/vulnerability. You need to remove 3 conditions before you get to the ones that do damage.
continuing to use warrior as an example:
If they weapon swap with doom and geomancy these are applied in the order bleed THEN poison since geomancy casy earth ring and the doom get used off of that hit. By doing this the second condition to be removed will be ALL THE STACKS OF BLEED . This is why its usually covered by longbow burst since if you stand in the pulsing fire field and attempt to cleanse conditions the last condition in will always be burn.
Literally the skill would be less annoying if it read cripple > bleed/confusion > confusion/bleed since you would need to remove less conditions to remove the damage. Its also why condi mesmer is far more manageable since they only really apply torment and confusion is any sort of lethal dose.
(edited by Sigmoid.7082)
I use a skill that cleanses 3 conditions. Why on earth does it clean a few seconds of cripple, a bit bleeding and vuln, but not freaking 21 stacks of bleeding?
because condition removal is last in first out.
If it was split any other way you would run into the problem of either being able to negate too much of certain condition types or not being able to remove enough of certain condition types. It also just adds another headache for balance. How do you decide what skill removes how many of what type of condition.
@stale
Just so you know for power there is no such thing as base damage because of how the formula works. There is no base + scaling coefficient there is ONLY the coefficient.
The reason the wiki shoes those numbers is since that’s the tooltip with the lowest your power can go ( 1000 )
Example:5) Reaper’s Mark – increase it’s base damage from 92 (lols) to ~ 500, and boost that coefficient to .8 from it’s silly low .25
This would be impossible since with a scaling of 0.8 the “base damage” would be about 322. To have a “base damage” of 500ish you would need a scaling of around 1.2. You cannot untie the two because of how the formula,which you correctly stated,works.
(edited by Sigmoid.7082)
the diference is condition builds corrupt boons converting them into conditions
conditions apply debuffs, some of wich greatly negate power builds , (Weakness)(Daze)(slow)(Chill)
Just a note but every condition you mentioned here affects all builds because they reduce recharge, action time,…daze isnst even a condition and 50% of weaknesses effect affect everyone since it lowers endurance recharge. Though weakness may be a little too good since you can combine it with protection and all the other mitigations to take almost no damage for a while. So much introduced but thats a HoT problem.
condition builds have several unblockable abilities such as necro marks , arcane thievery
you may evade a condition or two but you still will get a ton slapped on you specially in team fights once you are focused you’re dead and all you can do is watch your hp wittle away
Both damage types have a whole load of unblockable attacks when traited or just naturally..i dont see this point specifically. Not only that but when focused in a team fight you will die anyways. You are specifically dying in a team fight just because someone is using conditions. Dont make it sounds like " i should never die to conditions"
More abilities that apply condis go through blocks/dodges/evades than power based attacks. Specifically necro, but there’s others as well.
Abilities cant go through dodge/evades unless something prevents the action making you vulnerable such a rolling into a ward. Also the game is full of unblockable attacks or traits/utility skills that make stuff unblockable. Its not specific to condition builds nor do they have more. The wikis unblockable page isnt even up to date. Also if this is more so directed at marks the good ones are not on short cooldowns. Necro staff is a utility weapon. You don’t see people complaining about mirrorblade which is the strongest unblockable attack in the game.
There are more AoE, specifically ground-targeted Aoe, condi abilities than there are power abilities. While they’re relatively easy to avoid in 1v1, dropping them in a team fight on a point is guaranteed to hit 2-3 people. Moreover, unlike pulsing power AoEs (lava font, ranger arrow-shower thing, guard traps) if you get hit, you’re hit for the full amount/duration instead of going “whoops, I’m standing in something I shouldn’t be, let me move 2 feet and I only took a tenth of the total damage”.
The first sentence is a straight lie. The second sentence applied to both power and conditions anyways. The third…do you take all 32 stacks of poison when you stand in CPC, 6~12 stacks of burn the instant you are hit by longbow burst? no you can go “whoops i shouldn’t be standing here” and take a fraction of the damage. If you are specifically salty about marks then compare them to similar weapon skills that are also non pulsing aoe. Dont compare pulsing aoe to non-pulsing.
They are just as powerful (damaging) as power attacks, but are far easier to apply.
It is no easier to apply condition damage than it is power damage in this game what so ever.
And that’s on top of the user also having power-based attacks on top of the condi based attacks. In sPVP, single target condi builds straight-up out-DPS power builds. Against multiple targets (specifically team fights on a point) the gap is enormous, condi does 400-500% more damage than even an unmolested ele sitting there dropping all their AoE’s on the point.
Some untrue some hyperbole. Though just so you know standing in overload air+lava font will kill you faster than most things if left unchecked.
The underlying message of “I don’t like dying to conditions”/“i should never die to conditions”/“I cant remove them all” is pretty prevalent. The only real true thing people have said is condi warrior and mesmer are a bit over tuned.
Oh and just so you know I only ever play power builds.
" Condition remove really should prioritize poison>burning>bleed."
few problems with this:
1) Conditions would become overly manageable and therefore you would need less cleanses or stronger conditions. No matter the whine conditions still have to be lethal.
2) Non-thieves would then complain about overly long lasting control conditions. You could constantly then cover long cripple, weakness, vulnerability,chill etc etc with single stacks of bleed which is so common in the game on so many weapon sets.
“With the power based damage from condition application skills, mathematically conditions are superior as long as they tick twice before removal”
Hit for hit its probably closer to 3~4 seconds because of how the different damage types work. Per time frame you will take more power damage than condi from respectively focused builds. i.e power burst lost 10k hp in 1s, condi burst lose 10khp in 3~4s.
“you can mitigate a warriors Eviscerate and dodge a whooping 7-10k”
Same with skull grinder/shatter burst so why is it any different? Why is avoiding the important and most damaging skills thought of so differently just because of the different damage types? same with the following:
“while ignoring 1.3k a.a though kiting.”
You compare this to necro scepter auto attack, you compare all autos to a very specific one. Not only this but the damage values you use are no different…You can kite melee autos and los ranged autos this applies to bother power and condi so again why is it though of so differently just because its a different damage type. In addition you compare a 1.3k auto to scepter auto yet even in the meta build each hit from the auto will total just over 1.1k damage but over the next 9 seconds? Because it adds up and the bleed number gets larger? but regardless from that single hit you will still take 1.1k over the next 9 seconds
“This is stupid because power is different than conditions. Conditions have a standardized set of damage all bleeds do the same amount regardless of armor class or anything. Power is class and skill specific.”
Why is this stupid when just like power skills condi skills apply varying amounts and durations of different conditions? How is that different and not class specific? Some classes have varying access to different conditions. All bleeds dont do the same damage unless applied to the target by the same/multiple sources with EXACTLY the same conditions damage. Same as how power skills will do the same range of damage on a target with the same armour as long as they are hit by skills with the same multiplicative power based on the damage formula.
I just see problems in your arguments. Calling that stupid is no way to conduct a discussion..
(edited by Sigmoid.7082)
But it is worse when there is condition class stacking. You can’t cleanse it all.
Can you mitigate all power damage forever from multiple sources?
The thing is if you remove class 1 condi class 2 then applies theirs
If i mitigate power damage from class 1 then class 2 then comes in and does more power damage to me.
Also, you can’t compare a 2k power skill to a 10k condi skill
The 2k is used was purely arbitrary.
I mean that a condi build can land one skill and watch as it does 10k damage over 3 secs (Im looking at you warrior mace burst)
That is an exaggerated number. The skill itself only does 4 stacks of bleed and 4 stacks of confusion, even at 2k+ condi damage you will only be taking just over 1k damage a second from the skill alone. What makes the mace so annoying is because of the order conditions are removed in. If you dont know conditions are removed last in first out. They are also applied in the order that they read down a skill, traits included, then sigils after that. This means that for the meta build which takes frailty and torment sigil you need to remove 3 conditions before you get to the confusion and bleed UNLESS more conditions are applied that move those two up the list. If they swap to bow to and proc geomancy+doom you will remove the bleeds sooner rather than later since they are now second.
The closest thing to compare condi to that is power is unrelenting assault, which guess what, can be blocked mid way through.
Again this is a bad example and you are ignoring the fact that you can prevent damage at the point of application. The skill itself attacks X times. A better comparison to this skill in particular would be flurry for warrior, sword burst. It attacks 8 times each applying bleed but you can prevent more bleeds being applied have way through by blocking the rest of the attack.
Sounds like you enjoy condition builds. But they do need to be toned down. Take a poll and most players would suggest a slight shave to condition damage.
The notion that condi players dont have to care about attacks being blocked or that condis go through block is untrue. Unless the attack is unblockable you can block any hit that would have applied a condition to you since almost all condition attacks use a physical hit to apply it. The same with evades. saying it goes through the two of them is wrong. You have already had the damage dealt to you…why should it suddently stop because a block skill or evade has been used AFTER the damage has been applied. Would be like asking to be hit for 2k but since you blocked 1s after you have 1.5k hp returned to you.
Everyone has to play around heals and its available to anyone via a sigil and only some condi builds can regularly apply it enough for it to become a proper hindrance to healing output.
The thing about amulets was a fact. There is no way to take toughness and vit because such an amulet doesnt exist for condi builds since it was removed.
BTW I only play power builds. I have never said condi builds dont need to be toned down its just some people use bad arguments.
power builds have to play around blocks (which condis go through)
no they dont unless unblockable but power has unblockable attacks too.
evades (which condis go through)
no they dont.
heals (since most power builds don’t have poison like condi builds do)
Untrue and irrelevant, condi builds have to play around heals.
and counter pressure (since they cant stack toughness and vitality like condi builds can)
condition amulets only come with 1 defensive stat bar sage which had vit and healing. The only amulet that has toughness and vit is paladins.
-snip-
Just want to throw this out there, but all of a Necro’s condition transfer skills prioritize Blind on the transfer. I can’t speak to Arcane Theivery (the only non-Necro transfer skill), but no Necro transfer can miss due to Blind. It does, however, potentially stop something more dangerous from being transferred.
I was wrong on two but deathly swarm will still miss if it doesn’t transfer blind.
Its already FILO no need to change it.
Priority like you mentioned would do nothing to prevent that. suffering from 10 stcks of bleed..remove 1sec immo and 1 stack of burn, still die.
It would also make removing movement impairing conditions near impossible unless the skill specifically removes them e.g withdraw. 30s of cripple/ 20s weakness / 10s chill….shame those constant 1 stacks of bleed and poison get in the way…
The only reason Bountiful Theft has priority and in the order it is is because without it the skill would either constantly be blocked and thieves would be locked out of their main class mechanic or the slight of hand trait, daze on steal, would be useless.
Again, my point stands. Condi builds have more options than power builds. Go and visit wvw and see what I mean.
Why this is spvp.
Blocks shield against direct damage. The conditions that were blocked were only because they were part of the direct damage.
So with your first line you admit you can block conditions because almost all condition attacks register a physical hit. Only a very few dont but they are either unblockable anyways or are a field, which cant be blocked but you can run out of it.
Conditions can still be inflicted in many other ways WITH THE BLOCK IN PLACE using on-swap sigils, transferrence, unblockable attacks and boon corruption. Blind doesn’t do much. Aegis can be corrupted and stripped.
On swap sigils, namely geo and hydromancy, register a physical hit and can be blocked. They register in the combat log as either frozen burst or earth ring.
Transferance…the sigil is on hit thus can be blocked unless used with an unblockable attack via traits or utility. Deathly swarm needs a hit to transfer and will miss/fail if it doesnt cause blind to be transferred. It also stops tracking if it misses and will disappear if blocked. so no bounces. Asking the other transfers not to work is like saying others classes removal skills should have a chance at failing since if you check necro don’t have a bunch of condition removal it’s mostly transfers.
Blind does a lot to both damage types, this is undisputable. Blinding a skill that applies 1 stack of something is like blinding an auto attack, same as blinding a skill that applied multiple conditions is like blinding a harder hitting ability. Ive also explained how it can cause condi transfers to fail above.
Aegis can be corrupted sure but corruption is truly random, unlike removal. If you have any more than the [insert skill limit here] of boons on you, boons are so common now you likely will, then there is a chance it wont be. In the case of necro scepter 3 and traited signets if the corruption fails to corrupt aegis the hit is blocked.
Power damage has unblockable attacks as well so this is a moot point and thus CAN BE APPLIED WITH BLOCK IN PLACE.
Your arguments just looks like you are blindly hating on conditions.
(edited by Sigmoid.7082)
With cleanses, you have to build and trait for them to get benefits, and unless you’re a tempest/druid it’s STILL not enough. Cleanses can’t keep up with condis getting pumped out like clockwork.
With cleanses and resistance, there are costs and sacrifices to your build to get use out of them JUST to survive.
This is the same with mitigation to power damage. You have to build for it and most times it ends up not being enough either. The way you phrase this saying you both dont have enough cleanses sounds like a) condi should never do damage and b) you should never die to condi. Physical damage gets dropped everywhere and more often than not you wont have enough heals/dodges/other mitigation to avoid it all, especially fighting two people. So why should condi be any different? Its not extra …its an alternative damage type.
Also, conditions CANNOT be blocked. Blocks only block direct damage. Blinds can be a nuisance to condi builds, but they totally shut down power builds.
I also forgot to mention, to add to my post above for what you can do against power builds. You can add freakin’ AEGIS to that list as well lol.
but conditions STILL go through them.
Again this is wrong. almost all condi attacks register a physical hit so the conditions can be applied. You can block and blind, even aegis them. I dont see the point here. If you are reffering to how they tick once applied by a hit that could have been avoided then….the damage has already been applied. Blocks and blinds dont stop damage that has already been applied. Thats like saying you get hit by a power skill for 4k but since you started blocking after being hit HP is returned to you…You have already taken the hit/damage..its just being applied over the next X seconds giving you time to do something about it.
Conditions can also be appllied through sigils, passive and active traits and runes.
and power damage cant?
(edited by Sigmoid.7082)
" random order"
This is wrong because clear order is LIFO.
and before you say it was never changed and you can easily test it with a necro, shrouded removal and corruption skills. condi will apply as they read down a skill including those added by traits as long as its on the tooltip. If it isnt, i.e deathly chill, its applied after. Then its sigils left to right.
The ONLY thing that was changed was conversion/corrution. They are totally random. So if you use a skill that says “converts” conditions then yes thats random. If it says “remove” it will always be LIFO. It only appears random because the order doesn’t refresh on your bar to show which was the last in so its harder to see what you are about to remove.
i.e if you have a whole load of stacks on bleed already on you their position on the bar wont change, you then get hit by a skull grinder than procs sigil of frailty. You then have to remove 3 conditions before you get to the bleeds unless another stack of bleed is applied that moves it up the list.
(edited by Sigmoid.7082)
My suggestion:
Bring back the order in which conditions are removed, like before, instead of having it removed randomly like now.
Poison should be removed last.
It was never changed. Its still last in first out. Only conversion and corruption became random.
In addition a skill will apply conditions as it reads down the skill. I.e skull grinder applied cripple last and chilblains applied poison last. Also any traits that add to the skill and are displayed in the list follow this order. Those that do not, deathly chill, are applied after making that condition the last in. Sigils are applied after that since they require a hit/swap hence why some warrior builds use frailty since you then need to clear two condis before you get to the damaging ones.
(edited by Sigmoid.7082)
more than likely a melee condi weapon so sword or mace.
Condi damage in this game is not a method for slowly bleeding a player out with dots, it is an alternative to power damage. Stop with the bias against condi classes, and fix the real problems.
Condition damage needs to require 3 stats to actually hit hard then. I need power, precision and ferocity to hit hard while all condi build needs is condi damage and call it a day. Thats without mentioning how condi dmg ignored toughness/other -% reduction stuff. Condi in this game is an aids really. Go make a duel with full soldier anything vs full dire anything and tell me how it went. In any case dire user will destroy the soldier user to small pieces. Whats the difference between the two? Soldier has power which lack any sort of damage unlike dire which just doesnt care. Its a core problem that should have been addressed 3 years ago.
Condi damage need condi power, condi duration AND the time to stack condi OR to restack ir after a disepel. Power build don’t need a lot of time to develop insta burst kill.
So it’s 3 parameters for each way to deal damage. You just want to kill easily condi build dude.O, really? It needs time?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlQE9coHRco
3 hits and gg. Seems legit and totally working as intended.Waow this example is so representative. A thief that walk in all revenant zone, with 0 cleanse and i imagine 0 vitality. Same example with a zerk war 2hit and the thief dead.
You understand something as DoT, damage over time? Its not supposed to be as bursty as power damage yet it is what it is. Thats why it need require 3 stats to hit as hard as power builds otherwise the damage has to be nerfed hard.
His point still stand though..if this same thief was attacked by a power character his death would have been near instant instead of taking a whole 8 seconds.
L.I.F.O is easy to test with a necro, corruptions + master of corruption and shrouded removal.
A skill will also apply conditions in the oder then read down a skill, e.g skull grinder applies blind first and cripple last. On hit sigil apply after this since they need the hit to work.
If you get hit with skull grinder and sigil of frailty goes off you need to remove two conditions before you get to the damaging ones or hope you get hit with another source of bleeding or confusion to move them to the top of the list.
The only thing that is random is any form of conversion be that boon to condi or condi to boon. If a skill reads conditions removed : # then it will always take the last applied. If it reads conditions to boons: # it will pick at random.
Death Spiral – Add a 600 range leap and combo finisher: leap.
this wont ever happen because of thematics.
i’ve always found it immensely disappointing that anet would allow thematics to get in the way of something being efficient.
if the theme of something prevents it from being useful, then the theme is also useless.
To much mobility for thematically immobile and slow class. Necro have been slow from the go, reaper is actually a mobility increase over base necro.
Already have short CD leap on RS #2, if GS #3 had a leap on it similar to how guard GS does then ground speed would be too high.
It also couldn’t be a teleport because again mobility would be high and give access to z-axis movement.
Does GS need improvements? YES. Do i think it will get a leap on #3…highly unlikely.
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Its not random. You will always remove the stack of the condition that was last applied to you. The only random thing is corruption/conversaion of boon -> condi or condi -> boon.
Skills will also apply conditions in order as they read down the skill. Example the last condition applied by skull grinder is cripple.
It used to be last applied. They changed it to RNG some time ago
They didnt iirc. Nowhere in the patch notes did it say condition removal was random. All it stated that boon corruption and condition conversion were random but thats it. It is still last applied and is very easy to test yourself.
Right from June 23rd specialization patch:
“Boon and Condition Conversion
Boon to condition conversion and condition to boon conversion has been standardized and is functionality changed. Skills that convert boons and conditions now randomly select from all boons and conditions on the target.”
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Death Spiral – Add a 600 range leap and combo finisher: leap.
this wont ever happen because of thematics.
-Condition Removal:
Get rid of RNG remove. Either switch it back to how it was before June Patch last year(I believe it was then when it got
Its not random. You will always remove the stack of the condition that was last applied to you. The only random thing is corruption/conversaion of boon -> condi or condi -> boon.
Skills will also apply conditions in order as they read down the skill. Example the last condition applied by skull grinder is cripple.
(edited by Sigmoid.7082)
That’s because Anet decided that it would be smart to make condi cleanse completely random unless a condi is specified. If I recall correctly they said it made the game ’’flow’’ better.
So now I can enjoy blowing all my cleanses trying to hit that bleed, just like how I blow all my savings in slot machines.
The condi cleanse isn’t random. It’s the last condi applied that is cleansed first. So if you see your opponent applying tons of bleed even if it’s at 6 stacks, just cleanse it before he covers it with crap condis.
If the condi cleanse was random it would be easier to down Diamond skin eles.
Last i checked this is correct. It is only conversion from condi to boon and boon to condi that is random.
The game also reads down a skill to see which is the last condi applied. If skill 1 hit you with a bleed and skill 2 hits with confusion, poison and bleed listed in that order the next condi cleanse will remove ALL the stacks of bleed.
Easy enough to test on a necro with shrouded removal and toying around with master of corruption.
@silver
if you could mitigate more condition damage then the ways it can be completely removed would have to be reduced. else kill times for condition builds would become far to long and the entire playstyle would be unviable against running a power build.I absolutely agree. My ideal goal for conditions (and there actually is currently an active post about that) would be to split debuff (vuln, immob, fear, chill, cripple) and damaging condi (burning, bleeding, confusion etc…) and make cleanse only affect debuffs (and much less cleanse overall) while condi would be rebalanced and can only be mitigated and not negated.
This would then have the problem gw1 had at times where your class/build could easily deal with condi or hex but never both. You would then see people complaining about impairing/ debilitating conditions being annoying or not having enough removal for damaging condis.
Also some condi fall into both groups
Fear also just needs to be a control effect already..
You know that those actually exist:
- a block skill for condition application: any block skill prevents condi applications too
- Condition Reflect: a reflect skill will reflect any reflectable conditions (LB on warrior and SB on ranger and thief for example).
I know this is not what you had in mind, but I’m just trying to remind you that condis don’t just appear on you, they came with an attack that you can counter the same way you counter a physical attack AND you can on top of that cleanse or resistance. There is already more counter to condi than to physical damage. What condi lacks is mitigation (toughness/protection/many traits and runes benefits).
I don’t think it works like that on AOE conditions. And what i’m talking about would ONLY apply to the conditions so if you pop a condition block skill against a physical attack w/ conditions, you would still receive the direct damage.
No he is right, unless the attack is unblockable you wont take the hit and therefore the condition. You yourself have to be blocking though but there are some special cases since the attack holds other properties, such as being a projectile.
Warrior had a stance that did that but it was changed to resistance to give it better counterplay. Same with diamond skin and automated response.
@silver
if you could mitigate more condition damage then the ways it can be completely removed would have to be reduced. else kill times for condition builds would become far to long and the entire playstyle would be unviable against running a power build.
(edited by Sigmoid.7082)
These threads are getting more ridiculous by the day.
on gs thats why i and most people on the forums say to lower the damage by some % but still mantaining it viable ( also to have the slowest wep on the already slower class is bad mechnics). On the Lf it should stay the same, dagger is by 2 opponets and on a real fight you are not gonna spam gs 1 chain all the time or even land it.
on the chill uptime you have to land the 3rd chain also is an unrealistic %
but if it is too much it can be reduced from 2 (1/2 ) to 2
gs 3 and 5 i agree with youdagger is ok can use some tweak but is or best power wep a 5% damge increase on auto would be nice skill2 and 3 faster cast time and it would be perfect
See this is the problem its not straightforward.
First of all you are wrong, dagger will only generate life force for one target even if you are hitting 2. The full chain will only give you 8% lf no matter if you are hitting 1 or 2 targets. GS, all of its hits generate lf per target stuck therefore at max the chain can grant 15% lf. GS actually generates more lf per second that dagger as long as you are hitting 2+ targets. That does not also count the other two aoe skills on the weapon that generate lf. The faster the weapons the faster and more reliable the lf generation is and would have to be accounted for not only on the auto but the rest of the kit. Secondly our GS thematically HAS to be slower than every other one in the game so don’t expect to get near the 2.5s of other gs. Potentially all it would get is some after cast changes bringing it to around 2.75~2.9s.
Secondly is chill uptime you can change the duration and keep the theoretic uptime the same but because its faster=easier to land=more practical uptime it would potentially have to be further reduced.
Dagger doesn’t need a damage increase but merely faster attacks like their dagger got boosted to. No coefficient changes but resulted in a d[s increase of about 30%. Like i said skill 3 cant get any more of a cast time because the effect of being a ranger 3s immobilize that converts 2 boons is very strong. If it had a faster cast time it would become to punishing and something or all things on it would need to be shaved slightly. All dgager needs to be perfect is for skill 2 to have a slightly faster channel time and a faster auto potentially.
precisely
many people above does not seem to want any change, with no change power builds will stay the same unusable state.
-GS faster gs auto and casttimes is needed to be competitive, the weapon being so slow to the point that LF generation is unreliable
-The teleport proposed by OP has been mentioned before, i thing it would be a great change
-Dagger # 2 needs to channel much much faster at the moment it feel sad as if you are giving opponent time to recover for using the skill.
-Dagger # 3 needs to
-Axe need to deal more damage, its sad how a condition weapon out performs the axe in terms of power damage
reaper shroud needs hit harder power wise, its worse than dagger auto
Its not that they dont want change more so that they dont agree with the changes op proposed/some being unrealistic. Just on the things OP mentioned.
1 skill
Our greatsword is 20% slower than others on average yet does about 20% more damage on average. The faster you make it the weaker it has to be to keep the relationship the same.
Thing is when this is all good and well you then have to think about how long the chill it applies. Currently it has a chill uptime of 66% with the innate +20% chill duration reaper has. This will also have to change to hold true. Then again the weapon is easier to land so does the duration need to be reduced even further?
Then you need to look at how much lf the strike generate as well since if its faster it will naturally generate more since unlike dagger its lf generation isnt capped to 1 target. Would the #3 skill then have to generate less lf?
Then you need to look at it compared to dagger. Would dagger then have to undergo the same speed increase thief dagger got? (2.1 ->1.68 for a complete chain )
Point being its easy to say make it faster but there is a lot that would need to be looked at when doing so. Nothing is ever simple. Also the devs have a huge things for thematics.
3 skill
This will never get the teleport since it would provide what is thematically a slow class with a lot of extra mobility, especially z-axis and through wall mobility. Yes it could use improvements but this one be one.
5 skill.
All pulls in the game need work besides magnet so its a wider issue. The skill is also new tech for them so changing it is difficult because they clearly stated so and stated they had a low of issues increasing its range just a little. Personally feel it should send out a “slow” conical frontal wave that when it hits targets teleports them to you and knocks them down.
On your points on dagger
2 skill
Fair enough i agree with this one
3 skill
This skill doesnt need anything, especially a faster cast time. It is a 600 range 3s immobilize that converts 2 boons to conditions with a 0.75 power scaling ( can hit fairly hard ). Its a very overloaded skill as is now. Before it converted boons it was very good anyways.
and on this
“reaper shroud needs hit harder power wise, its worse than dagger auto”
There are clear reasons why it doesnt.
What bugs me the most is the “double” nerfing that seems to be happening.
Nerf Moa… and remove Mercenary amulets
Nerf Alacrity.. then make quickness/slow no longer affect rez/stomping.
Meanwhile, other Elite’s are barely touched.
The POWERCREEP in this game has got be put in check! And it needs to happen fast and it needs to happen on EVERY PROFESSION. Not just one at a time.
Just want to comment on this post in particular since I have seen it brought up in a lot of arguments.
a) Mesmer wasn’t the only class using the mercenary amulet and the amulet was overloaded and provided to much as it is. It wasn’t removed solely because of and to nerf Mesmers. It was removed since the amulet itself was OP. It really cant be used as an " OMG THEY ARE NERFING US AGAIN" argument.
b) Mesmer isn’t the only class with access to slow and quickness. These changes were class wide and not targeted as Mesmers in particular. It was really to make stomping more meaningful and pave way for the introduction of more execution skills like the DD elite. It was no fun to down someone and they be back in in half a second nor was it fun to be stomped without a real chance to react. Thats just quickness. The opposite holds true for slow since its no fun downing someone but you cant finish them. Essentially to speed up game since those caused they to drag out very long.
Only the stuff in bold holds true at being mesmer specific.
“Necromancer has a giant health pool, and for no obvious reason, sure it lacks mobility and toughness…”
You are wrong that it’s for no reason. They have no skills that count as an evade or a block and they have no abilities that grant invulnerability. They have go soak all form of damage all the time hence the large healthpool.
This is the point I made that OP underestimates the work you need to do. If you change the healthpool not only do you need to rework the classes damage, survivability , traits and abilities accordingly you then need to look at how they function vs other classes and change them too. Over all its unfeasible to even consider.
It’s more realistic to work with what you have than start from the ground up again.
1: Dusk strike: Reduce the damage by 10-15% and reduce the cast time to ½ .
2: Fading Twilight: Reduce the damage by 10-15% and reduce the cast time to ½.
3: Chilling scythe: Reduce damage scaling from 1.4 to 1.0 reduce the cast time to ¾.
Our GS is specifically designed to be slower than every other GS int he game but by comparison each hit is stronger. I doubt this change will ever come in, maybe some after cast changes but thats it..
4: Death spiral: The skill is nice but can be improve like add a teleport to target like on guardian sword this has been already suggested can’t remember the name sorry.
Mobility, especially through walls and on the z-axis is why this one happen. Besides the skill is fairly string for what it does anyways.
5: grasping darkness: The skill is a bit clunky but it can be improved if you add the target system like on warrior gs 3.
They had way to much trouble designing the skill and getting it to work because of the tech required, unless they have made advancements i doubt the skill will change much besides auto turning your character like most other skills.
2: Blighter’s Boon: Increase the healing per boon and lf gain by boon (reason necromancer can’t spam many boons like the rest of the classes) or gain x2 boon and keep the lf and healing the same.
When you build for it necromancer generates one of the highst amounts of self might in the game. This trait doesnt need changing at all.
3: Deathly chill: make this skill apply 2 bleed per chill (or torment) or rename to frost burn and add 1 second of burning per chill
more bleed or torment, torment would be better, makes sense but never burn. Burn would do fair to much damage for the skill.
1: Soul Eater: make the trait affect all skills like vampiric aura but just for you instead of just grave digger
This is the only one i can agree with since this is how it was before.
I’m not really understanding the moan regarding removing this amulet or believeing ‘this is targetted directly at the class i play’ nonsense. They clearly said
a) they wont introduce dire to pvp since its imbalanced
b) when they added this amulet in they said they are keeping an eye on it since it may be too strong
How is it even a surprise its being removed?
Why not remove paladins too? Same exact stats as merc. but instead of condi damage it has precision.
Because of the difference between condi and power damage, how they scale, and their supporting stats with relevance to pvp.
@OP
I think you are grossly underestimating how much each class is balanced around its base hp. Changing it would require too much work, tim0,e and money for anet to actually consider it at all.
Please for the love of all that is holy, lets get rid of these…
Yeah, let’s nerf necro even more cause why not..it’s not like you can dodge and avoid taking damage from marks anyhow right? Because let’s face it marks do so much damage to begin with especially after the deathly chill nerf.
The latest changes wasn’t a nerf mate.
Explain how its not a nerf..
Reaper is a very easy class to play, so easy it’s almost like playing a trap guardian.
We got a huge buff on Scepter AA, it wasn’t needed if you already knew your builds and skills but what ever, we got it.
You will find comments like “no skill” due to the simple fact that all we need to do to win a fight now is AA them to death. A skilled Necro will obviously use everything and be a lot more efficient at it, but in general the “average” skill base will be too busy focusing the Rev while the “Skill-less Necro” is standing there spamming AA and most likely not even moving.
I’ve never seen a Necro spamming auto attack the whole game. Good luck doing that with a good Revenant on you. Or Druid. Or in-your-face scrapper. Speaking of spamming auto attacks – longbow ranger/druid? :^) sure seems like that’s all they do, but that’s cuz longbow is annoying and you always notice when it hits you, same as Necro scepter. I agree boon corrupt is…. a lot… for an auto attack but the amount of boons and cleanse in this game is crazy.
People are posting videos, this guy doesn’t even use offhand weapons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVO1okVpj2QThe video is misleading. Mostly revs, bad builds,some bad players or the times he may have lost and has to use reapers shroud.
Most, if not all, of these guys would have lost to the same tactic even if scepter auto didnt corrupt boons at all. It doesnt belong on the auto but this video is propaganda at best…
The video is misleading for people who don’t want to see reality.
There’s no other weapon in the game wich can win duels with just using autoattack and 3 utility, no matter the opponents build. About the skill, most of the players in the video are diamond+, so not particulary first noobs pvers found in the game.
Reaper shroud has been used against the druid, mainly because he was kiting all day letting the pet doing the dmg, against an already death revenant and thief, mainly for defence purpouse.
Arguing about how easy is reaper in the actual meta is kinda redundant in my opinion, but well as you said, is not only the autoattack alone winning those duels, is the build in general too strong (chill application, random fear procs from the rune, 15sec cd unblockable corrupt boon 1200 range, i don’t even start to arguing about reaper form, cuz in fact is the best defensive tool in the game, the equivalent of all revenant blocks/evades put togheters, while still beeing able to bring huge offensive skills)
Thing is though there were never any fights vs classes/builds that deal well with condi pressure and most were revs which by class design lack cleanse.
The ranger wasnt using druid and an odd build. But if he didnt use shroud he would have lost.
The mesmer was bad, being diamond this season doesnt mean all to much.
The first theif didnt use dash and the second played really strangely and honestly should have won. Literally no reason to swap weapons when he did and it caused him to lose.
Warrior….
The rune probably should be removed but corrupt boon is a direct product of boon creep. The corrupt on auto needs to leave and chill returned to pre nov 4th or its scaling changed. Oh and the mercs amulet as well.
“reaper form, cuz in fact is the best defensive tool in the game, the equivalent of all revenant blocks/evades put togheters”
This…this just isnt true.
My point is the premise of the video, cool, and its not completely wrong but it still doesn’t stop the video from being misleading.
Reaper is a very easy class to play, so easy it’s almost like playing a trap guardian.
We got a huge buff on Scepter AA, it wasn’t needed if you already knew your builds and skills but what ever, we got it.
You will find comments like “no skill” due to the simple fact that all we need to do to win a fight now is AA them to death. A skilled Necro will obviously use everything and be a lot more efficient at it, but in general the “average” skill base will be too busy focusing the Rev while the “Skill-less Necro” is standing there spamming AA and most likely not even moving.
I’ve never seen a Necro spamming auto attack the whole game. Good luck doing that with a good Revenant on you. Or Druid. Or in-your-face scrapper. Speaking of spamming auto attacks – longbow ranger/druid? :^) sure seems like that’s all they do, but that’s cuz longbow is annoying and you always notice when it hits you, same as Necro scepter. I agree boon corrupt is…. a lot… for an auto attack but the amount of boons and cleanse in this game is crazy.
People are posting videos, this guy doesn’t even use offhand weapons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVO1okVpj2Q
The video is misleading. Mostly revs, bad builds,some bad players or the times he may have lost and has to use reapers shroud.
Most, if not all, of these guys would have lost to the same tactic even if scepter auto didnt corrupt boons at all. It doesnt belong on the auto but this video is propaganda at best…
Because it is simply the most op class in the game, press 4 or 5 buttons and wins, has a 50k hp bar lasting about 20 seconds, you can play 10 conditions a couple of times, you can take enough damage and endure beating the reaper mode, you stability, chill and still turn boon in condition
Set hyperbole to SUPERMAX ~~~~~~!!!!
I keep seeing in OPs suggestions for classes " change base damage to this" or " x condition does y damage over z seconds"
Do you know that both of these things are impossible because of how they scale and the formula behind them.