Guild Wars 2

Domey.9804:

Yeah…this vincent can Dodge everything.
I wish i will be pro like he is….someday.

Exactly. Since you are having a hard time dodging attacks and being one-shotted, Marauder is perfect for you. There is no shame on it.

I’m simply comparing what you are going to lose if you swap Berserker for Marauder. In most cases, the 6k more HP is not a benefit seeing that you lose power and ferocity.

As I said, if being one-shotted is the issue, then you’re better off with more Toughness.

- and only lowers direct dmg not conditions.

You said your issue is being one-shotted not conditions for which I replied that if that is the issue then get more Toughness.

But vitality, while not as good vs sustained dmg but still helpfull , gives you the chance to survive a couple conditions AND physical dmg bursts)

I don’t disagree with your reasoning if that is what works for you. If you’re willing to sacrifice damage over survivability then that’s your choice. As a Thief, it is better to get rid of the threat as soon as possible than trying to outlast them. Yes you survived, but the threat still exists.

It’s totally understandable if someone would choose to take Marauder because if they’re having a hard time dodging attacks and being one-shotted in PvE, then 6k more HP will definitely be a big benefit to them. However if being one-shotted is an issue, having more HP will not help since what they would need is Toughness, not Vitality.

In PvP, 6k more HP is definitely helpful when running away from a fight — it can guarantee your escape.

Jana.6831:

Cynz.9437:

There is 0 thieves in tourney so far lol. I mean devs put so much thought and effort into thief cvlass that no team is interested in bringing thief to tournament.

Yeah – I just hope they realize that the dmg/tankiness calculations and passive skills are completely off.
And well, I do hope they miss thieves.

Sadly, I really doubt that since Revenant is taking over the Thief’s one and only job.

Devs are the true Thieves
- Stealth – long duration and revealed only happens once in a blue moon
- Dodge – never gonna get a straight answer
- Steal – Acro nerfed to create Daredevil
- Initiative – never full
- Trickery – when they said a nerf is a “masssssssive BUFFF”

I wish that the Thief has some of those qualities

3xVault + 2xBound = squished raptors

The real tricky part is getting them close enough together for the AoE and for that you’ll need a lamb to sacrifice for the wolves, meaning Ambush (trap).

IMO, Marauder is not worth it even in PvP. Even though ArenaNet is trying to kill ‘zerker, it is still the best, only because the Thief’s damage is so pathetic. You sacrifice a lot by going Marauder from ‘zerker…and for a Thief it is a bad trade-off. You’re losing 150 power and 20% crit damage traded for 6k more HP and 8% more crit chance. It’s a bad trade. Crit change means little if you lose power and ferocity. And of course, what is damage if you are dead. However, losing damage output means that you cannot take out your target fast enough and the additional 6k HP will do nothing if your target gains momentum. And during a team fight when survivability really means a little because your team have your back, lacking damage output will mean your team’s defeat. I fully understand why Marauder is picked only because of the 1v1 mentality, however going into a 1v1 fight with a Marauder means you’ve already lost and you need the extra 6k HP, not to last a fight, but so that you won’t die while running away.

swinsk.6410:

Trolls will be trolls!

How is this a troll when the title is very clear that it’s “Dev balance request” and not “Thief balance request”?

That’s nothing. I found a legendary unicorn.

I got 3 Anets in my list, which includes Gaile. I saw her while playing in the Silverwastes on the way to the Labyrinth.

I guess some explanation is in order.

The last time quickness and swiftness were used was on the initial release of GW2. The changes to the game were quick and the information was delivered swiftly. Then both buff goes to a 3yr CD and the next time we’ve seen both buffs used again is prior to the release of HoT — that CD is just way too long.

When issues come up, stealth and dodge are used. Stealth needs to be nerfed since it can be extended for a very long time and dodges are simply happening too often. The Dev needs to improve this to enhance the Dev-to-Player relation. Shorter stealth and less dodging.

That is all.

Daredevil Scarf
Council Watch Shoulderguards
Glorious Brigandine
Sneakthief Gloves
Carapace Leggings
Magitech Boots

Initiates Pack (Back)
Royal Ascalonian Staff

I hope someone figure this out soon because it’s going in a whole different direction.

arenta.2953:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

arenta.2953:

all buffs/nerfs/changes since april (not including bug fixes)

overall. i see a TON of buffs in addition to a few nerfs.

but overall. there is ALOT more buffs than nerfs.

so are they nerfign theif? nope. REBALANCE. for every nerf, there is a buff.
~snip~

. And because Thief is already OP, the Devs are really careful not to give Thief a meaningful buff else they’ll go super saiyan.
.

which is why they gave theif more stealth
more dmg(and condition dmg)
and more survivability.

how could any of that possibly be counted as a buff.
oh w8, poison now stacks stacks instead of duration. and theres a potency buff for 33% to make that buff even better as the opponent takes more dmg, faster, with less of a chance to get rid of it.

You just keep fooling yourself with that kind of belief — don’t do that to yourself.

You need to open your eyes that while you believe that poison got buffed, it is not the case when you look at the meta seeing MediGuardians and the like running around. In fact, this is very bad for the Thief if that stacks of poison are transferred back to them since Thief has little way of dealing with conditions.

You see, ArenaNet is trying to make you believe on these are “buffs” but when looked at relative to the meta, these are major nerfs to the Thief — why? — because Thief is OP.

They even refuse to make Escapist’s Absolution baseline so that Thief can counter play condition because, according to them, it’s already too strong. So you see, Thief is still OP.

RedSpectrum.1975:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

I wonder how long it will take for someone to realize the purpose of this thread…hmm.

You think you’re so kittening clever don’t you? I had you figured from the start:
Merging stealth and evades would render the thief class useless officially, no amount of good play would save us. Simultaneously giving us access to quickness and swiftness would give a facade of a buff making players bring their thieves into PvP. They’d be lambs to the slaughter. After the copious amounts of threads complaining about it Anet would eventually delete the class entirely and remove all traces of it. With your main obstacle out of the way since DD condi is making a return, you’d get in your Revenant you have stashed away since they’d no doubt give them someone good in place of a pulsing reveal since the one class they did have that could abuse it is gone. Upon receiving these buffs you’d then go into copious amounts of pvp to finally get that Champion Ritualist title you’ve so coveted, expect Dragonhunters would be a main threat. But by so cleverly deleting the thief, people would direct most attention to the broken nature of the DH, causing them to be nerfed to oblivion. As people abscond to other classes that aren’t thief and guardian, the Revenant will naturally have a good shot at them making them rage and quit the game. As more and more people leave you’ll gather their belongings to hoard as much gold as possible using it to raise the prices of everything on the trading post. With the price of gems now at an all time high Anet will lose out on supporters causing them to have to pull the plug. In the desolate wasteland that is now GW2 you’ll then be free to reshape the world in your image.

Oh man, lol, this is getting good.

arenta.2953:

all buffs/nerfs/changes since april (not including bug fixes)

overall. i see a TON of buffs in addition to a few nerfs.

but overall. there is ALOT more buffs than nerfs.

so are they nerfign theif? nope. REBALANCE. for every nerf, there is a buff.
~snip~

An increase in numbers is not necessarily a buff. It is universally understood the an increase in numbers is only a buff relative to what other professions get from the same patch.

An increase is an increase, in the same way a decrease is a decrease. In order to judge whether that increase/decrease is a buff or a nerf, you need to compare it to other professions.

Also each change has its weight. Just because you counted “a lot” of buffs, it doesn’t necessarily means that those “buffs” has weight — a lot of them are negligible or an increase to a long underpowered skill or trait. And because Thief is already OP, the Devs are really careful not to give Thief a meaningful buff else they’ll go super saiyan.

In other words, you failed at reading the patch notes because counting “buffs” is nothing but a red herring to misdirect everyone from the nerfs.

I wonder how long it will take for someone to realize the purpose of this thread…hmm.

Are you a Dev? Else who is “we”?

- Nerf stealth and dodge
- Add access to quickness and swiftness with low cooldown (current CD is set to 3yrs, too long)

arenta.2953:

merrykitten .9423:

This is the most obvious reason that shows thieves are extremely OP. If you read the forums you will see a bunch of thief buff suggestions and complaints about how underpowered thieves are. These threads are completely ignored by the developer, if thieves were not op why would they ignore the threads?

because devs ignore 99.9% of threads for all classes

rangers demanded buffs since launch.
as did necros
and engineers

none of them got a buff until 3 years later…..well except engineer, but they still didn’t get the weapon switching they demanded.

if Anet listened to all threads, they would have given engineers the option to AIM their rifle and not shotgun it

plus they would have given rangers this pet buff ages ago. (or made pet removable)

but. devs don’t balance classes based on what people cry about on forums.

they balance classes based on average performance in game. which have theives as balanced (every nerf has a buff)

Correction: Dev only ignore buff requests not nerf requests. Thief has been on the receiving end of the nerfs for many many patches — yet here we are, Thief is still OP thus God Mode — you cant nerf a god.

You just have to outplay them as usual.

The crosshair indicator definitely needs improvement. Instead of going from “cross” to “x” I rather see a color coded approach where red is out of range and green is in range.

However, the main issue with this feature is that many skills have different range requirements, thus relying on the crosshair to tell players that their target is in-range are often misleading. I find this troublesome when using my Ranger since the crosshair is the same even for the Point Blank shot where it requires 1200 range while the rest of the skills require 1500.

It also became more annoying if you have the fast-cast targetting enabled which removes all range indicators that makes any skills with ground targetting very annoying to execute.

I watched this movie called War of Arrows and the main guy does a lot of tactical kitten with his bow that makes Legolas looks like an amateur.

Zero Day.2594:

Basically, I dont think there’s a way to pull out a nearly 30 inch stick from the back like that

It really depends on the type of quiver.

Adding more weapon skill sets will make a Thief go bonkers.

Poor Warrior has to deal with 20+ weapon sets making the profession extremely difficult.

Thief only have 8 weapon sets = easy mode.

Add more weapon sets to Thief to make it more difficult.

If they are to implement a toggled stealth, all other methods to gain stealth will need to be obsoleted since we don’t really need two different stealth mechanics. Then this toggled stealth needs to be streamlined, meaning it won’t be as costly as you have posted otherwise no one will be using it.

A toggled stealth that cost nothing for the first 3s then 3s CD per 1s in stealth is added to this skill beyond that.

So for the first 3s, the stealth is free with zero CD if you get out of stealth before the 3s mark. If you stayed for 4s in stealth, this F3 toggle will have a 3s CD. If you stayed for 5s in stealth, this will have a 6s CD. And so forth.

I think this is more reasonable without the ridiculous punishments.

All those who says that Thief is weak or balance has nothing to support those belief other than their own.

Thief is OP as shown with countless irrefutable, undeniable evidence.

Another evidence is this, the Devs believe that Thief is too OP in a PvP team fights so they’ve decided to give the Thief the role of +1 and decapper so that they won’t obliterate the opposition and end the match. That would be too boring.

Why else would they nerf the Thief from actually joining a team fight?

The only reason is that Thief is OP.

They already fixed this in HoT. Nothing to see here.

We got another live one.

ColdSlot.6928:

I just wanna stop you here… WHAT!? Are you brain damaged? Do even know how balancing works? The only way I see your logic making any sense is if the thief has some “holy god trait” that the Dev’s can’t touch or mess with because if they did the whole game would combust.

But Thief is in God Mode, thus no matter how much nerf it gets, it’s still OP. So it does makes sense.

Nerfs buffs and re-balancing in general is implemented when the skills/traits either:
A) are used in ways the Dev did not predict, could negative or positive

So stealth wasn’t predicted to be use to hide so they added Revealed? Is that what you’re saying?

Stealth was used as intended. However in the hand of the Thief, it makes the Thief beyond God Mode thus it needs to nerfed and was nerfed. Even so stealth is still OP.

B) do not do what they were intended to do, what we call bugs

Sword #2 wasn’t a bug nor buggy.

C) are not effective or too effective

That’s a relative term and relative to other professions, Thief was nerfed due to OPness. A lot of nerfs was due to Warrior’s QQs and yet, Thief is still OP.

Many things contribute to the reason something is re balanced like, damage, cool down, cast time, conditions applied, ect. This means its not as simple as saying “THAT CLASS IS OP BECAUSE OF THAT TRAIT OR THAT SKILL, NERF THE CLASS”! When maybe all that is needed is a longer cool down time.

I agree that there are many factors, which includes the QQs from the PvP forum. If the Devs didn’t agree with them, Thief would not have been nerfed. But the Devs agree that Thief is OP, thus the profession has been nerfed time and time again.

Also, IF (and thats a huge if) the thief was as OP as you say the Dev’s would focus on re-balancing that one thing that you say makes the class OP instead of working around it.

If you have been following the patch notes, Devs have expressed their belief that Thief is OP by nerfing the profession. We all thought that the Thief hit rock bottom on Dec 2013, but the Devs wasn’t done — Thief was still OP so they nerfed Acro to make Daredevil.

They’re not stupid, but they can’t predict every single change that happens from tweaking with just one skill.

So why make a massive change to many skills, traits and abilities if they can’t predict one?

Are you then saying that they are stupid for making so many changes? I think not!

In fact, they can track and predict all changes else they won’t even make the change in the first place. What’s the point of making changes if you have no idea what it’ll do?

The Devs knows what each changes do that’s why they make them, thus they know that the Thief is OP that’s why they nerf it.

Kageseigi.2150:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Maybe you should explain the goal of this mechanic first.

What is it trying to accomplish?

The objective is to give all Thieves access to Stealth on demand based on initiative regardless of weapon set and utilities in the same way that every Thief has access to Steal.

If this is the goal, then simply have Hidden Thief be part of Steal.

babazhook.6805:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

I’m currently playing around with DD/DA/TR using D/D+P/P on my alt.

The idea is to CC your target inside the Caltrops for massive 12+ stacks of bleeds followed by bleed stacks from DB.

I use Rune of Kraits only because it synergizes with Impact Strike really well.

When I drop Caltrops, I followed with Impact Strike->Uppercut (not using the last skill finisher) just to drop them on top of the Caltrops, then just Headshots after that and if I get to interrupt a skill, they suffer from Pulmonary.

I try to conserve my endurance so I wouldn’t need Acro. It’s hard to replace TR due to CDR on Caltrops also DA for Improv which synergizes well with Trickery’s Steal CDR. The extra initiatives from Preparedness allows for an extra DB.

I went back and forth between trickery and acro in my own build . there no doubt in my mind you get more endurance overall from the acro line as well as more sustain so while you do get an extra death blossom from the trickery acro gets that extra impaling with evade

I was weighing between the extra impaling or extra DB. Since DB adds more stack of bleeds, I went with Trick. A little risky yes, for more damage.

Caltrops works great against mobs but is not so useful against those with the wherithal to get out of the field.

I always have Scorp Wire and it works well to drag them back in. Also I CC them in Caltrops using Headshots.

Assassins reward while a relatively poor heal for a gm generates more healing than the caltrops and uncatchable

Yeah, it’s a tough choice. Survivability is my current issue.

Now in pve HoT side I have tried soloing two champions with both the trickery build as you use and the acro being used instead of trickery and have better sustain with the acro. I can quie easily solo cleanse rally point of enemy without ever having to stealth.

Definitely Acro > Trickery in PvE. Mobility is the key between life and death.

With shamans\apithecary in the build and rune of thorns I can have 1k healing along with 1600 + condi before that 300 from thorns kicks in.

Rune of Thorns is interesting, I’ll give that a shot. Shaman/Apo seems nice too. I’m currently using all carrion.

Given poison ticks are 43 percent higher after a dodge this will tend to have poison ticking harder than bleed meaning I will usually get more damage off spider venom than caltrops.

Ah, I see what you mean. Now I get why you pick Acro over Trick.

Really it 6 of this and half dozen of the other . both da\dd\acro and da\dd\trickery work very well.

I’ll definitely give your build a shot. I’ve been beating myself up trying to figure out a nice condition damage build.

That all said dropping da for dd\trickery\ acro also works but I find overall damage does not quite cut it. It has great sustain

Yeah, I like to prioritize on damage output.

In Wvw I can do quite well against most builds. DH setup at range with traps are the biggest problem.

Yeah DH is a real problem.

Cynz.9437:

Weapon skills:

Backstab: damage is just too low for the requirements (melee, stealth, from behind). Problem is, other classes just have too much access to prot/invuls/blocks/passives/weakness that makes backstab absolutely useless.

Suggestion: damage increased by 30%, ignores protection and weakness if hit target from behind.

This needs to happen or something similar. Vault already out damage Backstab without the silly stealth and from behind requirements. Backstab needs a genuine buff ever since they nerfed it to the ground.

Heartseeker: dmg increased by 10%, applies cripple on target with more than 50% HP.

The nerf on this skill was unreasonable. Now it’s just a leap finisher because it’s actually a waste of initiative to use it otherwise. Buffing as suggested would make it useable again.

Headshot: additionally applies confusion and slow.

They need to also speed up the projectile travel time. It’s just too slow.

Black powder: grants protection while standing in it. Blinding powder nerf reverted, now ticks every sec.

Smokescale mob has a great Smoke Cloud ability. Black Powder should behave the same way.

Surprise shot (sb from stealth): dmg increased by 400%, applies cripple on top of immob.

It should be a stun to be honest since you need to be creative to even go in stealth using a short bow.

Cluster bomb: leaves fire field if not exploded.

That would be great.

Disabling shot: remove freaking backpeddaling animation that locks you down and gets you killed. Should also apply chill on top of cripple.

Daze would be nice too since the shot should be disabling.

Choking gas: revert to old functionality or nerf engi grenades. Because engis can throw grenades out of stealth w/o punishment.

Makes sense. I pick buffing Choking gas while punishing Engis.

All sword attacks: remove unnecessary aftercast.

Utilities:
Signet of shadows: should be stunbreak (see ele signet) and drop smoke field on activation.

Shadow refuge: should make immune to enemy applied reveal and grant stability/resistance if traited into SA. The amount of aoe flying around and dmg it does is so asburd that old counterplays (knockback, revealed) are simply not justified anymore.

Shadowstep should grant resistance on shadow return.

Signet of agility: increase radius.

Smoke screen applies 1 sec protection to allies running through it.

Scorpion wire: should get fixed just like magnet. Increase dmg :/

I agree on all these.

Heals:
Withdraw should remove slow.

+1

Hide in shadows removes revealed debuff applied by enemy.

Reduce casting time too.

Signet of malice: apply weakness to nearbly enemies upon activation.

And retain passive ability even on cooldown. Or buff Signet of Power to add this functionality.

Traits:

Last refuge removed, replaced by light step: you don’t activate enemy traps/marks etc. when in stealth.

Ah, nice one. I like it.

Bountiful theft: boons stolen up to 3, steals all stacks and gives all those stacks not just 1 to thief and teammates (e.g. if 25 might stacks are stolen from ele, then 25 might stacks are transfered to thief/teammates). Granting radius increased to capture point radius. Steal should priorizize might over regen/swiftness.

This is an old suggestion that is yet to be acknowledged.

Quick pockets: additionally reduces recharge on weapon swap.

Or more initiatives really, 3 is just too low. 50% initiative refill on swap is still reasonable.

Preparedness: removed from trickery trait line, made baseline. Replaced by trait: steal puts random enemy spell on CD (spells that don’t have CD, are put on 5 sec CD).

Agree on the baseline move and the random skill steal.

Dagger training: poison replaced with torment.

Makes sense.

Mug: can crit again.

Yeah removing the crit was a low blow.

Exposed weaknes: 20% instead of 10%; attacks from stealth are not affected by block/invul.

I like this.

Potent poison: increases condi dmg on poisoned targets.

Nice one.

Improvisation: healing seed shouldn’t have CD upon use. The recharge chance should be fixed and work only for equiped utilities.

F2 in general shouldn’t have any CD.

Executioner: apply extra weakness if target is above 50% (arguable under which condition)

Weakness and Slow.

Flawless strike: dmg increase 15%

I’d vote for a short duration Resistance on crits.

Practiced tolerance: revert plz :/

I actually like this, but it needs to be buffed. +10% from Precision is just too low. 15% would be better. The old functionality is redundant given on how Invigorating works.

Ankle shot: increases range of ranged weapons by 300 units.

Homing projectiles.

Invigorating precision: affects party members (healing for teammates 10%).

That would be nice.

Resilence of shadows: revert to 50% or change to 40% at least

Yes. I agree.

Shadows embrace: grants 1-2 sec resistance upon leaving stealth.

That would be nice.

In addition:
- remove Venom Aura
- reduce Venom’s CD to 15s
- I like the venom residue idea that leaves venomous field on the ground (i.e. Spider Venom will leave poison field on the ground when proc’ed)
- the same goes with triggered trap idea where it leaves a field (i.e. Needle trap will leave a caltrops-like field similar to Uncatchable.
- Ambush will call one thief for each enemy within the 300 range area.
- Shadow trap will function like a mesmer portal.
- Haste on 30s CD

I’m currently playing around with DD/DA/TR using D/D+P/P on my alt.

The idea is to CC your target inside the Caltrops for massive 12+ stacks of bleeds followed by bleed stacks from DB.

I use Rune of Kraits only because it synergizes with Impact Strike really well.

When I drop Caltrops, I followed with Impact Strike→Uppercut (not using the last skill finisher) just to drop them on top of the Caltrops, then just Headshots after that and if I get to interrupt a skill, they suffer from Pulmonary.

I try to conserve my endurance so I wouldn’t need Acro. It’s hard to replace TR due to CDR on Caltrops also DA for Improv which synergizes well with Trickery’s Steal CDR. The extra initiatives from Preparedness allows for an extra DB.

arenta.2953:

so your argument is theif is OP cause it will always be OP no matter what is nerfed

You only need to look at the proofs.

and that devs agree its OP so it needs a nerf?

Historically correct.

then tell me. why is theif still OP if devs agree its OP?

Because it is OP. What else?

No profession warrants excessive nerfs unless they are OP. Thief receives mutiple excessive nerfs, thus it is OP.

If the Dev doesn’t agree, they shouldn’t have nerfed the Thief — but they did and more than likely they will continue to do so.

why have devs not nerfed it out of OP?

True God Mode. No matter how much you nerf the Thief, it is still OP.

Pay attention.

your argument fails entirely because your view is anything with stealth is automatically OP no matter what u nerf on it.

Read what I’ve posted. It’s not about stealth.

and you ignore all the buffs thief has recieved.
as well as engineer and mesmer’s stealth

What buffs? Relative to what other professions have received, those aren’t buffs.

Revealed has nerfed Shadow Arts and Acro was nerfed to create Daredevil because they have to make those nerfs due to Thief’s OPness. No other reasons to do so.

your buthurt. get over it.

How so? Thief is OP and it’s God Mode. Nothing hurts here. Thief will continue to shrug it off and move on because it’s OP.

also. steal doesn’t stun. it DAZES.
MAJOR difference there.

What’s your point? It still counters the stun on Thief. You’re just being petty now.

The only difference is that one prevents movements, that’s it — nothing “MAJOR”.

keep crying.

Laughing so hard here since you’re running out of steam because you can’t counter the overwhelming evidence that Thief is OP.

arenta.2953:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Who’s crying? It is universally believed (expect you) that Thief is OP ever since from the beginning that’s why it received nerfed after nerfed. The only good thing that ever happen to Thief is Daredevil, which further proved its OPness, that’s why in the next major patch, DD will inevitably receive a bunch nerf.

your crying, hence you making this thread to vent your sadness

You got it all wrong. Thief’s OPness is being celebrated and not cried upon.

Because no matter how much nerf Thief gets, it’s still OP. This is the true god mode. No amount of nerf can bring down the OPness of Thief.

no its not universally, its actually a very small portion of the community. but most people don’t feel like goign into a troll thread like this.

We had a long thread of NERF WISH LIST to beg to differ. Even the Dev agreed on some of them and actually implemented the wished nerf — further proof that Thief is OP.

You, on the other hand, is clinging on your personal opinion because you lack proof.

unlike most people, i like poking the trolls to make them act more and more pathetic defending their weak beliefs.

Now that’s funny because while I’ve shown proof, you’re the one sticking to your belief.

in fact, go look at this theif subforum. for every 1 “thief OP” cry threa. theres 3-4 “theif is weak” threads.

Until you look at how long was the NERF WISH LIST thread…

so more of the community views theif as in need of a buff.

Regardless of what you think the community’s view is, in the eyes of the Dev, Thief is still OP which deserve further nerfs.

What’s important is that the Dev disagree with a lot of “Buff Wishes” and agree with a lot od “Nerf Wishes”. The nerf on S.D was a proof that the Dev listens more to nerfs than buffs — why? — because they believe that Thief is OP.

wanna take a bet on the next patch? if theif was as OP as you claim. it would have been fixed in the first 3 months of the game. not “let stay OP over 3 YEARS”

It’s futile to bet on the Dev’s action because they are the most inconsistent Dev ever. How long have we been waiting for the Withdraw’s +10% heal? Since June. It was not fixed because Thief is already OP as it is.

if you’ll notice. no real nerfs have happened to heartseeker or backstab or stealth in the past 2 years.

Wow, check again.

HS got nerfed hard. The HP threshold was changed to uselessness. HS is nothing but a leap finisher now. You can’t go 2-2-2-2-2-2-2-ftw anymore.That’s how OP it was and still is.

Backstab got a Revealed attached to it.

Stealth got nerfed by placing CiS in GM.

They even nerfed Resilience of Shadows from 50% to 25% damage reduction.

Where have you been?

the first 1 year all classes got drastically reworked over and over.

While other professions got the rework, Thief got nerfed because it’s OP. There was a lot of QQs from other professions.

but the past 2 years, they’ve all settled into a state of balance. (with the exception of minions like necro and ranger. but that was a hard problem which is fixed now with the direct/indirect dmg)

It’s that the reason why Thief got a big nerf on December 10, 2013?

And more nerfs followed all the way to this year’s June patch?

also, you need to go play Reaper. GS skill 2. does more than backstab.
and if you hit something under 50% hp. you have NO COOLDOWN. (also u hit 3 opponents instead of 1)

I have a Reaper and have beat the game with it and did some PvP. It’s not as OP as you think it is. Once everyone is aware of its weakness, it’s toast.

aka, you can spam backstab FROM THE FRONT. with NO COOLDOWN.

Have you played Thief/DD? Vault is an AoE Backstab. It’s more OP and Reaper’s GS2.

and if the enemy runs. you have GS 5 or shroud 2. to either lunge or pull them back.

And Thief have Steal. Instant teleport plus all other procs another proof of OPness.

in addition. GS 2 causes vulnerbility. buffign your dmg EVEN MORE.

Bound gives 10% damage buff, it’s like 10 stacks of vunerability.

your shouts can grant you 10 might, chill enemies,

Steal does more than that.

you break stun every 6 secounds.

Yet they can still be disabled by Headshots.

thief can break stun, if its fully set up for stun break. every 15 at best. a normal theif will have 1 stun break every 30-45 secounds.

That’s because stun is not a threat. Thief can still use Steal while stunned to counter the stun by stunning the stunner.

aka, each has its strength
thief is good at healing and curing conditions and hit and run

And more.

necro is good at tanking hits, causing conditions, alpha, and breakign stun.

Necro is weak. It needs more buffs. Thief is OP and needs more nerfs.

arenta.2953:

1 caltrop doesn’t remove reaper shroud. idk where u came up with that.

I kite them all the time and it was done to me when playing my Reaper. The stacks of bleed drains shroud really fast. Don’t you know that?

I literally forced them to stay in my Caltrops by chain stunning them with Headshots.

That’s how OP Thief is. One skill cancels one profession’s main mechanic.

and theif is weaker than reaper shroud. but not weak itself.

You have no proof to support that claim. Reaper shroud and necro shroud in general hasn’t been nerfed as hard as stealth. There’s no similar effect like Revealed that delays the next shroud. I’ve played my Necro all through HoT and I can tell you that I remain in shroud one after the other — something I can’t do with stealth due to Revealed. Yet stealth got nerfed and not shroud implying that shroud is fine and balance while Thief stealth is OP.

You have no evidence to support your claim.

its balanced.

It’s nerfed because it’s OP. You’re just in denial.

you can delude yourself if u want. but every nerf has a buff with it.

If ArenaNet increased the Backstab damage when they added Revealed, I would believe you. Instead, because Thief is OP, they nerfed Backstab while they added Revealed.

It’s not a delusion is a fact. It’s right there in the game. You’re the one deluding yourself by denying that Thief is OP.

the only reason your saying thief is OP is cause it can stealth. guess what, so can mesmer, and engineer, and ranger.

No. Stealth is but one aspect of the Thief’s OPness. Haven’t you been paying attention?

remove stealth from the class, and then its extremely weak. with dmg less than necro (necro’s d/d and reaper’s GS out dpm theif d/d)

Who are you kidding? Even without stealth, Thief/DD wrecks face. It’s OP that Vault deals as much damage as Backstab in an AoE without stealth that can be done 3 times in a row dealing a total damage of 15k-20k damage to every enemy around it. Adding Bound to the mix for an extra 9k damage (dodge 3x).

if you believe that’s not OP, then you’re really disconnected from in-game reality.

keep crying though. people like u have cried since game launched. and theif is still here. balanced.

Who’s crying? It is universally believed (expect you) that Thief is OP ever since from the beginning that’s why it received nerfed after nerfed. The only good thing that ever happen to Thief is Daredevil, which further proved its OPness, that’s why in the next major patch, DD will inevitably receive a bunch nerf.

arenta.2953:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

arenta.2953:

keeping in mind theif has gotten just as many buffs as its gotten nerfs.

its not OP. its balanced, but they rebalance it (aka buff part, nerf another part) to fit with the meta.

for example, they recently buffed p/p 3 skill
they fixed 3 bugs for Dagger main skills where backstab was missing when moving. and pathing issues for heartseeker so it lunges like it should.

Anet aren’t nerfing theives. they rebalancing.

Tell me then, what buff did the Thief receive in exchange for adding Revealed which nerfed the whole Shadow Arts trait line?

+200 power during reveal

That’s in DA not in SA.

also shadow arts? nerfed?

Merciful Ambush Stealth yourself and your target when reviving an ally. You revive allies faster.
Shadow’s Embrace Remove conditions periodically while in stealth.
Meld with Shadows Stealth skills last longer.
Hidden Thief Stealing grants you stealth.
Resilience of Shadows Stealth effects that you apply reduce incoming attack damage.
Shadow’s Rejuvenation Regenerate health and initiative while in stealth.

All you have no access to when Revealed.

the addition of the reveal “nerf” was compensated by giving us a trait that gives us +200 power while under reveal’s effect.

That’s not a buff, nor balance. Revealed imprisons the whole trait line. Obviously because stealth is OP.

and buffs to “while under stealth” ’s duration, and giving us int while stealthed.

That’s useless if you’re Revealed.

this is still my FAVORITE trait line because it heals me.

Not when Revealed.

keep in mind thief is WEAK to stuns.

What are you talking about? I can Steal+Stun while stunned to counter their stun because Thief is OP.

compare thief to necro. necro’s shroud lets it break stun EVERY 6 SECOUNDS. and heal while shrouded, cure conditions while shrouded, move 33% faster while shrouded. attack 15% faster while shrouded

Necro’s shroud is balance because it doesn’t allow them access to their heal and utility skills. Thief, on the other hand, has access to every skill while in stealth because it’s OP.

reaper is literally god mode.

God mode? It melts like any other melee class to conditions. One Caltrops removes the Reaper Shroud…because why? Thief is OP.

theif is weaker. but compensates by being stealthed (coupled with theif having 10-20k less hp. and usually less armor as well)

If Thief is weak, why it is getting nerfed major patch after major patch?

Just look at Withdraw. They had a chance to actually balance it by increasing the CD but also increasing the heal. Yet, they chose to nerf it instead by increasing the CD without increasing the heal.

Kageseigi.2150:

4. Any direct damaging attack received will remove Stealth from you.

This ruins it. It cost too much and it’s inferior to other means to gain stealth.

If it cost 5 initiative to go in stealth, the stealth should at least last 5s before it start costing 1init/s. Otherwise, what’s the point of this mechanic if it only punishes the Thief?

It would be a waste of resources to implement this kind of, no offense, useless mechanic.

Maybe you should explain the goal of this mechanic first.

What is it trying to accomplish?

Scorp Wire is a fun skill when you understand its limitations.

skogkatt.7586:

I did. Ease your kitten.

You’ve just proven my point. Thanks.

arenta.2953:

keeping in mind theif has gotten just as many buffs as its gotten nerfs.

its not OP. its balanced, but they rebalance it (aka buff part, nerf another part) to fit with the meta.

for example, they recently buffed p/p 3 skill
they fixed 3 bugs for Dagger main skills where backstab was missing when moving. and pathing issues for heartseeker so it lunges like it should.

Anet aren’t nerfing theives. they rebalancing.

Tell me then, what buff did the Thief receive in exchange for adding Revealed which nerfed the whole Shadow Arts trait line?

skogkatt.7586:

Whatever. I’ll read that treatise when I Imagine it has f all to do with f all.

Try an alt.

Move on.

Done.

messiah.1908:

Impact.2780:

messiah.1908:

i will ask again why take DA over CS
you loss improvisation but get perma fury and about 30% – 41% more dmg
so with extra dmg you can take with DD weakening strike and escapist absolution

1) DA has great synergy with Trickery, while CS doesn’t.
2) DA has a damage modifier regardless of health thresholds, Improvisation is good utility, Panic Strikes can secure a kill, and Mug is of course more damage and survivability. CS only offers better damage than DA while a target is above 50%.
3) If you get fury from other sources, the effectiveness of CS is reduced since permanent fury is a large portion of the damage increase it offers.
4) If more damage is what you want, you’ll get it by taking Executioner in DA over Improvisation. Not only will your damage be better than had you taken CS, but your best damage will land on targets under 50% health as opposed to above, helping you down them.

who DA synergy with trickery?
CS does 10% more dmg when you target is above 50%, practice tolerance gives 12% more dmg when crit and no quater gives 17% more dmg when crit

DA executioner gives 20% when target is below 50% and you have 10% more dmg when target is with condition.
mug does okish dmg every 20 sec and healing

with the build above you dont have much fury only from other allies.

after testing the dmg is much higher with CS while i am losing immobilize which most classes got some way to reduced (dash thieves), necro 33-66% reduced duration, warrior immunity etc…

also the loss of swiftness how is it feel in the role of decap rotate the map faster?

It’s a toss-up between Improvisation and No Quarter. Which even works on your build is what trait line you pick. I’ve been using CS for quite a while and I love it, however I miss Improvisation a lot because it’s that good.

skogkatt.7586:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

skogkatt.7586:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Ever consider that the problem is not the Thief?

Perhaps you’re just bad at playing Thief that you die a lot, which will annoy anyone.

Ever consider that everyone with internet access and a search engine already wonders if they’re not one of the rare people good at Thief without need for this?

Yes, I’ve considered it, yet the OP wonders if the Thief is bad instead of wondering if the Thief is not a good match to his playstyle.

What’s your point?

Look, I just don’t think you need to be an kitten. The problem is Thief is a hard class, it isn’t balanced so there are easy ways to play it like every other class, even Engineer. I wasn’t critiquing whether you thought it was a “good match”, I was critiquing your bringing their skill into question as some sort of value judgement being germane to like kitten all since any sane person disagrees the Thief is balanced, and I doubt they’re all crumby players. Just suggest they try an alt, move on. Done.

Suggesting an Alt is more insulting IMO. There are two points in my post;

1) I ask perhaps he’s bad at playing Thief — it happens and his friends have suggested it — that the problem might not be the Thief, but his playstyle. If you die a lot, you’re probably doing something wrong. So no matter what profession he plays without adapting to a better playstyle, he’ll still die (i.e. Standing in fire).

2) Thief not matching his playstyle doesn’t necessarily mean that he drop the Thief. What I meant is that he needs to understand the profession deeper in order to play it better. Thief is not a hard class, it just takes time to understand it. Denying that you’re failing in playing the profession will only hinder progress.

After admitting his shortcomings, he has two choices; either pick another profession or gain a deeper understanding of the Thief profession.

Suggesting an Alt without understanding the core problem is something that comes from someone who could careless.

Now your problem is, you have jumped to a wrong conclusion.

Link.1049:

Honestly I’ve thought shared basilisk was bugged because I’ve never seen it work.

They nerfed the shared range because of its OPness. You need to be really close to the Thief to get it.

And most classes don’t need the other venoms… chill, stun, and poison are built in.

Chill is a really good condition against all non-Thief profession. Thief don’t get affected by Chill because its OP. And I’m sure Revenants will be happy with Chill. You can also share the healing venom to mitigate some of the pressure.

The new finisher is the only saving grace but it has to be timed perfectly or it fails… it actually takes as long as a regular finish.

You just need to practice it…it’s not that hard.

Staff won’t get needed it’s still the weakest weapon a thief has access to.

You’re kidding, right? Vault deals as much damage as Backstab without the need for stealth nor delayed by Revealed. It’s also an AoE.

3 dodges seems to be an improvement… however 2 out of 3 will force you out of stealth which is most thieves way of getting out of a fight

With these GM dodges, you don’t need stealth.

…and the third one has a pause where your evade has passed but you’re not able to use anything else yet.

Dash is meant to do that since it has the longest dodge range. And even if the evade is gone, you still get damage reduction.

A good hammer swing and game over.

Hammer is too slow with a lot of telegraphed animation that are easily interrupted.

I played as a dragon hunter for 30 minutes and it took 2 or 3 of any class to take me out with me having zero idea what I was doing.

Are you saying that DH is OP? No way! DH have received numerous buffs to get where it is now. Thief/DD have gotten nerfed because it’s OP.

skogkatt.7586:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Ever consider that the problem is not the Thief?

Perhaps you’re just bad at playing Thief that you die a lot, which will annoy anyone.

Ever consider that everyone with internet access and a search engine already wonders if they’re not one of the rare people good at Thief without need for this?

Yes, I’ve considered it, yet the OP wonders if the Thief is bad instead of wondering if the Thief is not a good match to his playstyle.

What’s your point?

Narcarsis.5739:

Scorpion wire is buggy, and if you want condition clear (assuming that’s partly why you took it with Trickster removing a condition with a 16s cool-down) you might as well take Shadowstep. The condition clear is about the same (3 every 48 seconds with Scorpion Wire vs 50 seconds with Shadowstep) and burst clear is always better than 1 condition clear as you can cover damaging conditions with trash conditions (vulnerability, cripple, weakness, etc).

Scorpion Wire is only buggy if used more than 600 range. Since I’m using a Staff, ScorpWire have not failed me when used in melee range. The ability to interrupt while cleansing is, to me, greater than burst cleanse. I personally do not like seeing my cleanse skill out in CD when I need it or do I like letting the conditions on me tick. Besides in a team fight, I can rely on my teammate to use an AoE cleanse and in that situation, Shadowstep is a dead skill in my bar while if I have ScorpWire, I can use it as an interrupt.

Link.1049:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

This thread has so much overwhelming evidence which proves that even though the value of Thief is less than 1, it is still OP.

No other profession can pull off the many stunts that a Thief can.

We get hat tricks…. and actually, every class can pull off our stunts. Rev for shadowsteps (twice as many in half the time we do), Mesmers and Engi’s outstealth us. We finally got a knockdown but if you see anyone running with a staff they are only hunting other thieves and the knockdown is a one trick pony as you have to be in stealth to do it to begin with. Guardians have better traps and burst damage now… and ALL of these classes get access to all the other boons which thieves don’t.

Ah, but they have no Venoms nor Venom Aura — and everyone knows how OP Venom is. Shared Basilisk anyone?

Also, they have no finisher in their Elite skill — only the Thief has access to a TRUE Elite skill that finishes the opponent off. This is more OP than Shared Basilisk.

Does other profession have a trait that resets all utilities of the same type? None other than the Thief’s Improvisation trait.

Any of the other profession can dodge more than twice? Thief can dodge 3 times with DD. All the damage in the world means nothing if you can’t hit your target due to evasion.

All the Thief’s weapons got nerfed — HARD — because of OPness (except for Staff, but it’s coming and I would bet Vault will take the hit).

But I’m just repeating myself from this point on.

Deny it all you want, Thief is OP and it needs to be nerfed.

It’s a chore when the story is gated behind it, but pass that, it’s not too bad.

Also having a few Alts helps since you get exp from exploration and hero points challenge.

What is the advantage of removing 13 conditions if you only have one on you with multiple stacks? Is it really worth using when you only have one condition? It’s a waste. I would rather choose Primal Echo for Staff CDR.

Besides, there’s really no point trying to compare Thief to other classes because Thief’s cleanse are not the same as the other professions.

1v1 against rabbits = deadly Thief
1v1 against up-level = deadly Thief
1v1 against equal = dead Thief

2 out of 3 the Thief is deadly.