Jugglemonkey.8741:

Zero Day.2594:

CuteLilKittenHugz.2064:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Let’s see if Karl is the prophesied savior of P/P.

Pretty sure since he effectively murdered p/p he’s the prophesied antichrist of p/p.

There was a prophecy…?

If it was in Equilibrium then it probably has something to do with exploding at street level.

Anyways, it’s still trig if the opponent is standing on a pebble, it’s just in a different axis. An axis with a logarithmic scale so 1 pebble = 10k range, which is why Vincent missed.

That would explain it if the hitbox is smaller than the pebble, so when scaled proportionately (or zoomed in closer) we’ll see that relative to the size of the hitbox, the pebble is 10k range high. This seems to be the case here.

Nike.2631:

…along with whipping a staff around wukong-style I really want to be yelling “your martial-arts are pig-dung!” at the screen…

SUPERIOR RUNES OF THE DAREDEVIL

(1) +25 Condition Damage
(2) +10% weakness duration
(3) +50 Condition Damage
(4) 25% chance when struck to inflict weakness for 5 seconds. (Cooldown: 20 seconds)
(5) +100 Condition Damage
(6) 7% of Condition Damage is converted to Toughness.

SUPERIOR RUNES OF THE MEDI-GUARD is more fitting. :P

BobbyT.7192:

Now they just need the monkey king’s idle stance

…and the Lotus Training Jellyfish animation (fix).

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Ok I usually use Withdraw, was thinking of using HiS to see if I like it, after work I will post my build.

Just keep in mind that by using HiS that you are going to spec for SA and that you will have high toughness, otherwise it’s a mediocre heal skill.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Ok, normally my havoc group is me and 2 Mesmers one is Power and the other condi PU, sometimes I roam on my own taking camps, but just for info what’s better for a normal S/D across build? Valks or Knights ?

IMO, it depends on what heal skill you choose. If you’re taking Withdraw, more HP is better, thus Valk is your best pick. If you’re taking Hide in Shadows, or traiting for Shadow Rejuv., more toughness is better — it just works well with SA, thus your best pick is Knight.

I personally like Withdraw and hated stealth build, so I have a combination of Soldier and Valk for armor; and Berserkers for weapons and trinkets.

Rozbuska.5263:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

To be honest, Sneak Gyro is not worth the loss of DPS from Mortar Kit and support from Supply Crate where both Elite does more than one thing.

Although, if the Engineer chooses to be less of a support and pure DPS using hammer, this Elite is stupidly broken. Getting Thunderclapped from Stealth is worst than Backstab. I wish Backstab stuns in addition to dealing damage.

FYI gyro after summonig have another overcharge skill there you can summon it and if you are out of combat you can swap to some other elite and dont get cd on it. Supply crate works now the same you plonk down turrets and swap to mortar.

Well yeah, out of combat of course. Maybe useful when defending an area, but not when you choose to be mobile.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

So while on this subject, I an getting back into WvW on my S/D Teef mostly doing Havoc and running with zergs every so often, I have berserker ascend for chest legs and feet should I keep those and do Valk or Knights for the rest?

If you’re going to stay with a group, going all Berserker will be fine. If you’re going solo-roaming, you need to think about survival stats.

mompen.7952:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

mompen.7952:

Gray.9041:

daredevil staff’s the best thing I’ve seen so far, but I’m hoping at least some of the new weapon skins will be melee staff skins – especially now that Nevermore’s clearly a caster staff.

Hey yo, does anyone have a picture of this new DD staff? Tried to Google it with no luck. Maybe someone else is a true ninja-googler and can help me out

Look here: https://d3b4yo2b5lbfy.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/c6757Glamour-590x331.jpg

Source: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/meet-the-daredevil-thiefs-elite-specialization/

Oh wow, it was that easy Blush thanks tho! I read that article earlier, but didn’t think of the staff as a new one.

I don’t blame you…it’s just a plain boring staff.

In PvP, if you stop roaming and decapping and instead stay on a node as a DPS with an Engie and a Druid, Thief is where it belongs. But the current meta-mentality right now forces Thief to be a de-capper and +1, which IMO is a stupid strategy that rarely worked — to much wasted potential.

In WvW, it’s the same deal. Stay with a group with some good support professions and you can DPS until your fingers bleed.

To be honest, Sneak Gyro is not worth the loss of DPS from Mortar Kit and support from Supply Crate where both Elite does more than one thing.

Although, if the Engineer chooses to be less of a support and pure DPS using hammer, this Elite is stupidly broken. Getting Thunderclapped from Stealth is worst than Backstab. I wish Backstab stuns in addition to dealing damage.

mompen.7952:

Gray.9041:

daredevil staff’s the best thing I’ve seen so far, but I’m hoping at least some of the new weapon skins will be melee staff skins – especially now that Nevermore’s clearly a caster staff.

Hey yo, does anyone have a picture of this new DD staff? Tried to Google it with no luck. Maybe someone else is a true ninja-googler and can help me out

Look here: https://d3b4yo2b5lbfy.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/c6757Glamour-590x331.jpg

Source: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/meet-the-daredevil-thiefs-elite-specialization/

Goldenrevolver.4371:

~snip~… i think its reasonable to lower CnD initiative cost from 6 to 4. what are your thoughts? too much? the wrong solution? i think its a good start

There are two scenarios;
1) If they removed self-inflicting Revealed from Thief’s skills, then no, it should stay at 6.
2) If they refuse to remove self-inflicting Revealed from Thief’s skills, then yes, I agree that CnD should have lower cost.

However, neither will happen because we’re talking about Thief here, not Warrior.

Showbiz.9725:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Showbiz.9725:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Showbiz.9725:

I cannot get Exotic Berserker or Valkyrie accessories. I don’t think they exist…cannot find any.

I have these on me but I made them myself from Jewelcrafting, so that’s one way to get them.

If you have Laurels lying around, you can also purchase the Ascended versions from the Laurel vendor.

I have 400 Jewelcrafting…what are they called?

The Berserker is a Ruby Orichalcum and the Valk is Beryl Orichalcum.

Oh, actually these are on the TP for about 5g right now. Not that bad. I must have been searching the wrong thing.

Side note, I just got a Grizzlemouth’s Weapons Chest (Ascended chest) randomly from ranking up in WvW. How rare is that? And how much gold/time would it have cost me to craft, lol. So random. Rabid doesn’t seem too good for Thief though

Ugh, why Rabid…Carrion would have been perfect.

Showbiz.9725:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Showbiz.9725:

I cannot get Exotic Berserker or Valkyrie accessories. I don’t think they exist…cannot find any.

I have these on me but I made them myself from Jewelcrafting, so that’s one way to get them.

If you have Laurels lying around, you can also purchase the Ascended versions from the Laurel vendor.

I have 400 Jewelcrafting…what are they called?

The Berserker is a Ruby Orichalcum and the Valk is Beryl Orichalcum.

Showbiz.9725:

I cannot get Exotic Berserker or Valkyrie accessories. I don’t think they exist…cannot find any.

I have these on me but I made them myself from Jewelcrafting, so that’s one way to get them.

If you have Laurels lying around, you can also purchase the Ascended versions from the Laurel vendor.

Full Berserker Armor/Weapons/Trinks – only if you are going with a group/zerg and stick with your group/zerg.

High Vitality Armor – if you are using Trickster (trait) and Withdraw as your heal.

High Toughness Armor – if you are using regen based heal or Shadow Arts.

Soldier Chest/Pants, Valk the rest, Berserk weapons and trinkets – Solo Roaming – Power based

Dire Armor – Condition based

That’s my 2 cents.

Zero Day.2594:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zero Day.2594:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zero Day.2594:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zero Day.2594:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zero Day.2594:

So… If one thief stands 900 units infront of the other… and uses their pistols to shoot something that’s 900 units away… Does that mean that we effectively have 1800 range on 4 pistols?

If it’s on a straight line, yes. If not, we need to use the Pythagorean Theorem to calculate the effective range since it can be anywhere between 0 and 1800 range.

Sweet mother of god… variable distance. Too RNG, what if it’s angled and hit’s a walking by moa? This should be removed/nerfed from the game promptly.

Trigonometry doesn’t work on P/P.

It’s just last night, I can’t hit my target standing on a pebble in front of me — wasted like 2x Unload without the target taking damage. I have to reposition all the time or find an even surface so I can hit it — it’s really frustrating.

The build in question is P/P/P/P, which enables trigonometry.

But you’re talking about “one thief stands 900 units infront of the other” and I’m telling you, if that “other” is standing on a pebble, the difference in elevation negates the range — in my case, my range was reduced to zero just because my target was slightly on a higher ground.

Ah I see now, it’s very undependable. Gotta remove P/P/P/P.

or the pebbles…

If you nerf the pebbles that can have potential unwanted effects on other classes. Like for instance: hiding behind a pebble while fighting a thief would no longer grant LoS against the thief.

Better keep it limited to thief only and balance it properly.

Well if instead, what if a thief is standing perpendicular to the other so that they can triangulate their target, thus effectively reducing their range but eliminating LoS altogether. I think that is better than having 4 pistols or 1200/1800 range.

Besides, what is the use of range if they are hiding behind a pebble?

Zero Day.2594:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zero Day.2594:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zero Day.2594:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zero Day.2594:

So… If one thief stands 900 units infront of the other… and uses their pistols to shoot something that’s 900 units away… Does that mean that we effectively have 1800 range on 4 pistols?

If it’s on a straight line, yes. If not, we need to use the Pythagorean Theorem to calculate the effective range since it can be anywhere between 0 and 1800 range.

Sweet mother of god… variable distance. Too RNG, what if it’s angled and hit’s a walking by moa? This should be removed/nerfed from the game promptly.

Trigonometry doesn’t work on P/P.

It’s just last night, I can’t hit my target standing on a pebble in front of me — wasted like 2x Unload without the target taking damage. I have to reposition all the time or find an even surface so I can hit it — it’s really frustrating.

The build in question is P/P/P/P, which enables trigonometry.

But you’re talking about “one thief stands 900 units infront of the other” and I’m telling you, if that “other” is standing on a pebble, the difference in elevation negates the range — in my case, my range was reduced to zero just because my target was slightly on a higher ground.

Ah I see now, it’s very undependable. Gotta remove P/P/P/P.

or the pebbles…

You should always carry EVERY possible weapon combination in your backpack. It’s in the “WvWvW Survival Guide: First Edition”, page 135, under the heading “Equipment”.

Zero Day.2594:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zero Day.2594:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zero Day.2594:

So… If one thief stands 900 units infront of the other… and uses their pistols to shoot something that’s 900 units away… Does that mean that we effectively have 1800 range on 4 pistols?

If it’s on a straight line, yes. If not, we need to use the Pythagorean Theorem to calculate the effective range since it can be anywhere between 0 and 1800 range.

Sweet mother of god… variable distance. Too RNG, what if it’s angled and hit’s a walking by moa? This should be removed/nerfed from the game promptly.

Trigonometry doesn’t work on P/P.

It’s just last night, I can’t hit my target standing on a pebble in front of me — wasted like 2x Unload without the target taking damage. I have to reposition all the time or find an even surface so I can hit it — it’s really frustrating.

The build in question is P/P/P/P, which enables trigonometry.

But you’re talking about “one thief stands 900 units infront of the other” and I’m telling you, if that “other” is standing on a pebble, the difference in elevation negates the range — in my case, my range was reduced to zero just because my target was slightly on a higher ground.

This is not even hard…it has to be Kasmeer.

Rain.9213:

AlCojester.4316:

‘Bout time someone posted a S/D vid! Cheers for the video! Always nice to see another S/D teef in WvW. There were some occasions where you didn’t need to activate signet of agility as the extra crit chance is helpful for dps.

Glad you enjoyed it and glad to hear from a fellow S/D! And yes, I do pop Agility quite often as I like having the endurance back ahead of time and because Improvisation allows me to use my utilities aggressively and more often since I have a chance to recover them every time I steal. The tip’s still appreciated though as I sometimes forget that thing does contribute to my overall damage. Gotta use it a bit more intelligently!

If you can maintain Fury, the crit chance you get from the signet becomes obsolete, so IMHO, use it whenever you want to.

Zero Day.2594:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zero Day.2594:

So… If one thief stands 900 units infront of the other… and uses their pistols to shoot something that’s 900 units away… Does that mean that we effectively have 1800 range on 4 pistols?

If it’s on a straight line, yes. If not, we need to use the Pythagorean Theorem to calculate the effective range since it can be anywhere between 0 and 1800 range.

Sweet mother of god… variable distance. Too RNG, what if it’s angled and hit’s a walking by moa? This should be removed/nerfed from the game promptly.

Trigonometry doesn’t work on P/P.

It’s just last night, I can’t hit my target standing on a pebble in front of me — wasted like 2x Unload without the target taking damage. I have to reposition all the time or find an even surface so I can hit it — it’s really frustrating.

babazhook.6805:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

babazhook.6805:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

babazhook.6805:

These are just examples of trigger procs we can use rather than all on evade or stealth.

Fleet shadow. On using shadowstep skill gain 3 seconds super Swiftness.

Ah, something that triggers off shadowstep is something I can support.

Vigorous recovery. Gain 7 seconds vigor and cleanse one condition on heal.

I like this one too.

Guarded initiation. Add on clearing one of indicated conditions gain 2 INI.

We don’t really need anymore Initiatives. I rather see improvements when we’re not using initiatives (i.e. Autoattack)

Assassins reward add if poisoned receive 20 percent more healing from assassins reward for ten seconds or

If receiving poisoned burned or torment gain 5 stacks might for ten seconds added

This effect doesn’t reflect the name of the trait.

I would rather see it as;

“Deals +1% damage depending on your endurance level” (i.e. 35% Endurance adds 35% damage)

A hundred percent more damge is a lot of damage

That’s why it’s a “reward”. Besides how often will we keep it at 100% when Bound rolls out? It’s a good trade-off situation when you can trade Bound for more damage.

Or for balance purposes, they can tweak that number so that it will only give a max of 50% damage…maybe “+0.5%” rate.

The point is, it’s better be rewarding enough, worth picking up over Don’t Stop.

Well even 50 percent a bit high. Can you imagine the damage from a p/p unload at range with a 200+ crit damage bonus?

I have imagined it and it’s still not as good as Ranger Longbow with the same crit damage doing AoE damage at 1500 range. We have to look at P/P relative to other professions.

In PvP, if someone can force you to use your endurance, your damage goes down, but the reward comes in when you successfully get a jump on someone.

In any case the point made is that we can use other triggers then evade and stealth and make for varied and fun builds. Premising everything good that can happen to us on doing a successful evade becomes very much like putting all of our most reliable defense in SA. It lessens diversity of builds.

It’s not like they will give us passive defenses any time soon. It seems like we’re stuck with either evade or stealth. What I want to see more of is utilizing more shadowstep mechanic or shadowform mechanic — I mean honestly, all the tools they need to expand the Thief profession is in front of them already, instead, they want to innovate and create new technology, which is a waste of time.

Zero Day.2594:

So… If one thief stands 900 units infront of the other… and uses their pistols to shoot something that’s 900 units away… Does that mean that we effectively have 1800 range on 4 pistols?

If it’s on a straight line, yes. If not, we need to use the Pythagorean Theorem to calculate the effective range since it can be anywhere between 0 and 1800 range.

Jana.6831:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Jana.6831:

Do you both have bronze ranks and was one of you a S/D and the other D/X? Then you’ve met me today

Not me. I don’t play before 6pm PST.

No, I meant the OP.
And yeah we met.

lol yeah, not yet today though.

vespers.1759:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Backstab costs zero Initiative, Unload x3 costs 15 initiatives. Basically you get what you paid for — it would suck even more if you didn’t kill anyone. However, S/P can do more damage with less setup and less Initiative.

Easier than standing at 900 range and pushing 3? BRB buying sword haha

Yes, because you daze them as part of the skill so they can’t dodge….they have to waste stun break first. Unloading at 900 can be obstructed or dodged — you’re relying on being lucky that your target aren’t paying attention — that say much about the weapon set…it requires additional help to be effective.

EDIT: In addition, if I’m using S/P and I saw you Unloading at me, you’d be dead without even finishing your first Unload.

Jana.6831:

Do you both have bronze ranks and was one of you a S/D and the other D/X? Then you’ve met me today

Not me. I don’t play before 6pm PST.

vespers.1759:

P/P may be weak for 1v1 duels but in larger fights it is very strong as seen in the video. From the playing I’ve done in wvw groups, nobody lives long when I pop in and unload 3 times in a row while they’re busy with someone else.

You can do way better with S/P with that playstyle.

When ArenaNet nerfed Opportunist…P/P started dying…then Dual-wielding, Pistol Mastery, and Ricochet disappeared…P/P just died. Left rotting in the dumps with no Dev to care for it.

Let’s see if Karl is the prophesied savior of P/P.

it also requires a heck of a lot less setup to pull off compared to something like backstab.

Backstab costs zero Initiative, Unload x3 costs 15 initiatives. Basically you get what you paid for — it would suck even more if you didn’t kill anyone. However, S/P can do more damage with less setup and less Initiative.

SlayerSixx.5763:

P/P is actually one of the weakest builds at top tier when considering theif builds.

I can’t think of a weapon set weaker than or equal to P/P.

The only reason we’re putting up with it is because we have no other choice.

It’s best to start here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Guide-to-Thief-Guides/first

That list is also pinned on the top.

Good luck.

babazhook.6805:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

babazhook.6805:

These are just examples of trigger procs we can use rather than all on evade or stealth.

Fleet shadow. On using shadowstep skill gain 3 seconds super Swiftness.

Ah, something that triggers off shadowstep is something I can support.

Vigorous recovery. Gain 7 seconds vigor and cleanse one condition on heal.

I like this one too.

Guarded initiation. Add on clearing one of indicated conditions gain 2 INI.

We don’t really need anymore Initiatives. I rather see improvements when we’re not using initiatives (i.e. Autoattack)

Assassins reward add if poisoned receive 20 percent more healing from assassins reward for ten seconds or

If receiving poisoned burned or torment gain 5 stacks might for ten seconds added

This effect doesn’t reflect the name of the trait.

I would rather see it as;

“Deals +1% damage depending on your endurance level” (i.e. 35% Endurance adds 35% damage)

A hundred percent more damge is a lot of damage

That’s why it’s a “reward”. Besides how often will we keep it at 100% when Bound rolls out? It’s a good trade-off situation when you can trade Bound for more damage.

Or for balance purposes, they can tweak that number so that it will only give a max of 50% damage…maybe “+0.5%” rate.

The point is, it’s better be rewarding enough, worth picking up over Don’t Stop.

babazhook.6805:

These are just examples of trigger procs we can use rather than all on evade or stealth.

Fleet shadow. On using shadowstep skill gain 3 seconds super Swiftness.

Ah, something that triggers off shadowstep is something I can support.

Vigorous recovery. Gain 7 seconds vigor and cleanse one condition on heal.

I like this one too.

Guarded initiation. Add on clearing one of indicated conditions gain 2 INI.

We don’t really need anymore Initiatives. I rather see improvements when we’re not using initiatives (i.e. Autoattack)

Assassins reward add if poisoned receive 20 percent more healing from assassins reward for ten seconds or

If receiving poisoned burned or torment gain 5 stacks might for ten seconds added

This effect doesn’t reflect the name of the trait.

I would rather see it as;

“Deals +1% damage depending on your endurance level” (i.e. 35% Endurance adds 35% damage)

Doggie.3184:

BTW If a +1 class +1s off another +1 does it actually = only 1 Thief?

Thief is equals to 0, so if a Thief +1 a Warrior, it is +1 because Warrior is 1 and Thief is 0.

If a Thief +1 another Thief, that would either be 1 or 0.

Thus, it’s inconclusive.

This one is a bit bunker but has more power for better damage output.

Shadow Duelist

Woaden.9425:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

I would pick Cleric Armor and Monk Rune, plus Omnomberry Cookie for a well-rounded approach.

Hah I just did all these exact things after poking around with mompens build link! Still needs more HP tho imo. I feel like regen builds need to be sitting on a pretty fat HP pool.

The main problem of the build was that it has a low toughness, so it seems like the build needs more HP.

However, by adding more Toughness, your Healing can keep up with the damage you’re receiving because some of the damage were being mitigated by your toughness.

The rule of thumb is;
- if you’re building regen, you need toughness
- if you’re building burst heal, you need large HP

El Psy Congroo.7965:

I don’t agree on Thrill of a Crime over Flanking Strikes on p/p tho,
using Basilisk Venom -> Unload -> Steal -> Unload you can Kill your foe before they can move because of Haste and Stun.
If build intended for long fights or more than 1v1 then yeah, pick Thrill of a Crime.

Any P/P fights are prolonged. Even with Haste, you cannot Unload fast enough to kill anyone…that’s just a theory that looks good on paper. Unload has a pre-cast and after-cast delay problem.

Besides, they can break and dodge at any time — what would you then?

I’m giving the OP alternatives rather than being a one-trick-pony.

Also Trickster is a must if using Flanking Strikes as Haste is a Trick, meaning it will have lower cooldown + condition removal.

Flanking Strikes is a horrible trait. You have a better chance of quickness by picking Haste as your utility and trait for Improvisation. You get 2 chances of resetting it before it goes off CD instead of waiting for the full CD.

mompen.7952:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

@OP: 2k toughness and 12k HP made me cringed. You’ll take so much damage that there’s no amount of healing power will keep you alive.

With a Berserker, you can afford to have those stats only because there’s a possibility that you can down your opponent — however with your build, that’s not a possibility — you’re basically just prolonging the inevitable.

If you can’t kill them, they’ll just keep pressing you until you run out of options and run away.

That’s so true.

I get like 16k with guard stacks tho.
Tried with S/P, SoM, IP, Assassins Reward (AR sucks btw) It heals up pretty fast, one pistol whip and 100% hp from under half.
But, I’m so squishy :-/

I would pick Cleric Armor and Monk Rune, plus Omnomberry Cookie for a well-rounded approach.

@OP: 2k toughness and 12k HP made me cringed. You’ll take so much damage that there’s no amount of healing power will keep you alive.

With a Berserker, you can afford to have those stats only because there’s a possibility that you can down your opponent — however with your build, that’s not a possibility — you’re basically just prolonging the inevitable.

If you can’t kill them, they’ll just keep pressing you until you run out of options and run away.

Utility
Pick Scorpion Wire – Condition removal, interrupt
Pick Roll for Initiave – Condition removal, stun break
Blinding Powder is good – stay

Traits
Pick Practice Tolerance – Ankle Shot is crap.
Pick Thrill of a Crime – Flanking Strikes is crap.
Pick Trickster – Bountiful Theft is good, but it’s not a condition removal.

I would go Deadly Arts instead of Shadow Arts only because Improvisation is a must for P/P in my opinion — and against a Guardian, 2x mace head crack is priceless.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

How about removing it entirely before they bury themselves in crap by designing around it?

It’s a stupid and lazy design placeholder that should have only existed in a tournament environment instead of across the board.

This is GW1 all over again. They should have learned this by now. Use environmental effect in PvP where they want Revealed to exists but remove it from PvE contents.

someone didn’t play the very first couple betas.

not having reveal was completely broken. you think PU mesmers are bad? you’ve seen nothing.

We’re talking within the context of Thief, a profession that should be immune to Revealed. PU Mesmer should keep their Reveal but remove it from Thief’s skills.

Besides, are you responding to my post where I said that this is for PvE? If so, then what’s OP in PvE?

dude, revealed is a mechanic that was created exclusively because of thieves. and “oh, just break PvE, it’s ok” isn’t a solution.

can you imagine a new thief playing PvE, enjoying the lol permastealth of spamming CnD on monsters without any punishment, then going to PvP and, lo and behold, there’s this whole other mechanic that completely changes the way the profession is played is just thrown at them without warning? that’s terrible game design. it’s one thing for skills to be weaker or stronger depending on game mode (PvE revealed is only 3 seconds, PvP is 4), it’s another to outright remove a whole mechanic because you don’t know how to play with it.

That’s no different from a martial artist who has the ability to kill or physically disable an opponent but cannot use those skills in a tournament setting.

This is why I mentioned that if they want to make things fair, keep it in PvP where it belongs.

A Thief who spams CnD and remain in stealth loses a lot of DPS and it’s a risk that Thief is willing to take — why deny it? What can a Thief possibly break if they perma-stealth in PvE? Besides, if perma-stealth becomes game breaking in certain part of PvE, then have the mobs in the area have a revealing skill — there’s really no valid or logical reason to make it across the board. It’s was simply a lazy solution.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Reading back, that’s certainly a possibility. My point still stands, you have to predict projectile travel time when running interrupts. This is the case for any projectile based interrupt, which means reaction based attempts are much harder than prediction based.

I’ve played both interrupt Mesmer and Ranger in GW1 and the reason why Mesmer dominates is because I can react to a skill I want to interrupt only because there’s no projectiles involved — just like Steal with SoH.

Ranger interrupt in GW1 relies on projectile and often times travels longer the farther I am from my target — thus I rely on prediction — this is not a reliable kind of interrupt. However it’s important to note that even though Rangers in GW1 uses projectile, their interrupt skills ignores their pre-cast animation to make it more reliable — in GW2, Thief’s interrupt skills is still restricted with pre-cast animation even though the skill (headshot) has no casting time.

In the case of Thief, it’s a waste of initiatives if we have to predict in order to interrupt. And if my prediction is wrong, I lost the initiative (risk) with no reward (proc-ing Impacting Disruption). It’s not a good concept to build on.

Christonya.3856:

Better idea: Make “Reveal” Skills SHOW the player, but not prevent him from gaining stealth. So, for example…. I use shadow refuge, and an engineer uses their new stealth gyro AOE reveal ability…. He can now see me, watch me move, keep tabs on me BUT I am still in stealth and can still backstab him.

Or just a simple icon floating on the Thief’s head would suffice. No need to change the status of the Thief, just an indicator to show where the Thief is. They can even use the Eye of Janthir, all-seeing eye, as the icon. that follows the Thief around.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:Eye_of_Janthir.jpg

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The DPS of that build is not something that you expect. Besides, without either DA or CS, your DPS will take an even bigger toll. Stealthing is alway counter to DPS since you deal no damage while in stealth.

I understand this, but in this instance the stealth is useful for maintaining 900r between you and your target.

You can accomplish this without stealth. I do it all the time.

Also, the problem with p/p is it has no mobility. we just got a 20% dps increase on it, so I don’t see why “but dps” would be a problem when the build is pretty much stationary as is.

There was a time when Body Shot applies a longer lasting Vulnerability where Unload can use as damage boost — for whatever reason, they made Body Shot to shoot bolas and nerf the Vulnerability. Then it just went downhill from there. One bad design after another.

Boosting the damage of Unload from last patch is ok, it’s like bringing back that nerfed Vulnerability with something even better.

However, even with this damage increase, it’s not a boost relative to what other professions did get. So yes, damage is one of the problems besides animation.

Adding stealth to the weapon set will only hurt its damage, not improve it.

Adding stealth to P/P is the simplest fix that can be implemented without reworking all the weapon sets with pistol mainhand, all the sets with pistol offhand, or unload.

That’s not a fix, that’s a band-aid. If they intend to fix it then they should fix it entirely and not create more problem. Stealth is the root of many problems, I rather not see them build around this problem.

The problem being created is indeed mobility/stealth does no dps, but isnt that precisely what p/p needs? Without it it’s just facetank and die.

You can be mobile and maintain DPS. You can’t, however, be in stealth and maintain DPS. Your suggested mobility relies on stealth, which is counter to DPS.

The issue I have with Revealed is that it’s a self-inflicted Nerf.

I can understand other professions applying Revealed on Thieves, but the Thief themselves self-inflicting Revealed is stupid and illogical.

Strategist.6132:

Maybe we can ask for an improvement of Headshot? Maybe either make the cast time instant, or increase the bullet speed? Or maybe decrease the initiative cost by one, so that we can try more often?

Headshot has no cast time — that’s why it’s mind boggling why it is so slow.

SlayerSixx.5763:

I don’t choose vigorous recovery at all on my build, I honestly prefer pain response because of the horrendous amounts of condi flying around nowadays.

Ever since Withdraw became a Trick, I switched from Pain Response to Vig. Recovery.

I can’t justify the use of vigorous recovery because I don’t even pop my heal skill most of the time.

You have to have taken damage else Pain Response won’t even proc. And even if PR procs, assuming that you have 15k HP, you’re down by 3k health already. Removing the condition sooner every 15 seconds is better in my opinion.

Fleet shadow, on the other hand, gives P/P some much needed bursts of mobility if you change black powder to a straight up stealth skill (not that I’d still consider it over pain response).

Dodge into Swiftness is not a burst in mobility? If you really really need to create that gap, you can always spec fo Uncatchable.

With the Elite DD, you can even go overkill by spec-ing for both Uncatchable AND Lotus Training.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Former: I’d pick it over vigorous recovery because instant cast stealth + 3 seconds of swiftness is better than having to waste a dodge for swiftness. Saving the dodge takes care of the lack of vigor. Also, Fleet shadow and instant cast stealth would resolve the mobility issues of P/P, because that’s 50% msi ,45% when in combat on demand, untargetable for 6 ini.

The problem is, you do no damage while in stealth. It doesn’t help P/P at all.

Latter: Daredevil is coming. Slotting DD would take priority over SA.

It’s a sad truth.

Running Zerker would be feasible with SA/ Acro if P/P gave stealth

The DPS of that build is not something that you expect. Besides, without either DA or CS, your DPS will take an even bigger toll. Stealthing is alway counter to DPS since you deal no damage while in stealth.

Let’s say for instance you do 2k DPS — while in stealth for 3s, you lose 6k of damage output — sure you run faster because of Fleet Shadow, but it doesn’t solve the problem instead it creates another.

Giving stealth to P/P is not the solution to any of the P/P’s problems.

What do you intend to accomplish giving P/P stealth?

Why would any P/P Thief pick Fleet Shadow over Vigorous Recovery? Dodge already gives them Swiftness which makes Vigorous Recovery a better choice. 50% movement for 3s is meh.

In addition, you can’t spec for both SA and Acro at the same time without hurting your DPS. Another reason why stealth is not the solution.

Besides, giving P/P its own #5 other than Black Powder mean that they have to implement what I’ve been suggesting for a long time now — Dual-wielding replaces all 5 skills instead of just #3 skill. This way both P/P and D/D will have their own viable skill set without affecting the other weapon set variant.

Ghotistyx.6942:

You can’t interrupt everything on reaction. Most of the interrupting in GW1 was prediction based.

You can’t interrupt everything based on prediction either. I can also make the argument that most of the interrupting in GW1 are reaction based.

No point on discussing which is which. The heart of the problem is the skill animation. The skill should allow you to predict or react to a skill you want to interrupt.

Play some mindgames with your opponent and make them use a skull which you can interrupt. See it coming and have the bullet/dagger/whatever be there when it casts.

Easier said than done. In GW1 when the interrupt have 1/4s casting time, it animates within 1/4s , it’s instant, not 1s later because of aiming animation delay and bullet travel time.

Just test it yourself. Try to interrupt someone using Steal(SoH) vs using Headshot. The difference is significant because Steal has no casting time, nor delay, nor projectile travel time — it a reliable interrupt skill — others? Not so much.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

How about removing it entirely before they bury themselves in crap by designing around it?

It’s a stupid and lazy design placeholder that should have only existed in a tournament environment instead of across the board.

This is GW1 all over again. They should have learned this by now. Use environmental effect in PvP where they want Revealed to exists but remove it from PvE contents.

someone didn’t play the very first couple betas.

not having reveal was completely broken. you think PU mesmers are bad? you’ve seen nothing.

We’re talking within the context of Thief, a profession that should be immune to Revealed. PU Mesmer should keep their Reveal but remove it from Thief’s skills.

Besides, are you responding to my post where I said that this is for PvE? If so, then what’s OP in PvE?

babazhook.6805:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

babazhook.6805:

Nike.2631:

Arrow.4619:

Nike.2631:

All true. Believe me, the prospect of my Thief being a first-round draft pick for raid-tank has me salivating.

Nothing against you as player . . . but I think you’re going to be sorely disappointed.

I’m not offended. What’s your concern? Best capacity to dodge in game, 10% mitigation after dodge, dishes weakness, self-heals left, right, and center (on hit and on spend initiative), evade on #3.

Bunker thieves (all 8 of us in the entire game…) are already incredibly tanky. The last round of changes builds on that like I could only dream of.

There more then 8

He probably didn’t see those who are in stealth.

What’s stealth?

I’m under the impression that Shadow/Ninja Nurses build tanky too. I’m probably mistaken.