Guild Wars 2

Um, Bandit’s Defense is a stun break…not just a block + KD.

Bandit’s Defense is the best stun breaker out there, thus 15s is appropriate (even though I still think it has to be 20s).

8s stun break while Brawler’s Tenacity is traited is way broken — even now, it will only bring it to 12s with BT — still broken IMO.

Most stun breaker are on 60s coold down. I wouldn’t complain or bring too much attention to this skill else it will get nerfed hard.

Shinjiko.1352:

Like maybe a single shadowy effect? Or a different one for each of the different dodge styles.

Totally unnecessary and a waste of resources because you should know which type of dodge you traited for — no need for visual “fluff”.

What’s next…a visual “fluff” for which Trickery GM you traited for so you’ll know if your Steal will daze or apply confusion?

The visual effect has no value because it is expected the you at least know what your build does.

Revealed should only apply to non-Thief.

That was actually the idea behind my Arcane Thief Elite Spec suggestion — it would have been better for the Thief to arcane steal abilities using focus than to be a staff wielding monkey.

Whatever, too late for that — maybe the next Elite Spec (if any)?

Karl McLain.5604:

Hey all,
here’s some other changes that happened today.

note: There was a bit of feedback that the auto-attack wasn’t up to snuff. We took a look today and decided that it was quite the case, being that damage on this weapon set is more localized onto the auto-attack.
Staff Strike: Increased damage by 5%.
Staff Bash: Increased damage by 18%.
Punishing Strikes: Increased damage by 20% per attack. Added a missile reflect skill fact.
Hook Strike: Increased damage by ~250%. note: The damage is still on the lower side for the weapon, but now deals more than practically zero. This ability is intended to set up high damage combos through crowd control, thus we’re trying to keep the damage lower than other from-stealth abilities.

Weakening Charge: This ability is now targeted, with the animation being cleaned up a bit. Distance traveled is slightly less, to increase the ease of landing multiple hits on a target. Reduced aftercast slightly (120ms).

Debilitating Arc: Included an evade fact. This ability continues to evade from the start of the ability.

Impaling Lotus: Removed the hidden initiative cost.

EDIT FOR BOLD!!!!!!

Baby steps towards the right direction — Thanks Karl.

By the way, are you also going to add “This ability continues to evade from the start of the ability” to all the Thief’s skill #3 (i.e. Death Blossom)?

Amante.8109:

That’s kind of the problem… how do you support Vital Shot for both Power and Condition builds, when it’s currently terrible for both?

The first step is to improve the fire rate. Right now Vital Shot’s fire rate is pathetic and by simply increasing this rate, it would benefit both builds. An increase in fire rate is an increase in physical damage and bleeding stacks.

From that point on, they can tweak the numbers for Vital Shot — which I’m sure wouldn’t be necessary anymore.

Einlanzer.1627:

…they need to buff/realign Vital Shot (increase physical damage by about 50%, decrease bleed damage by about 25%, make it the opposite of the sneak attack)…

I don’t agree with this though because it will nerf P/D condition build. Let’s suggest something that will not nerf some build for the sake of the other. We should suggest changes that will benefit both builds.

Full glass cannon D/D build. You don’t need survivability as long as you stay in a group. You’ll receive plenty of healing and protection and might that all you have to do is focus on what you do best — deal damage.

You only die when you’re alone, so don’t do that.

Karl McLain.5604:

Ricochet in its previous implementation is not slated to return at this time.
When the trait system was condensed, the standard was set in that each weapon set could only have one trait. Being that a player might want to receive increased damage from pistols, but not necessarily inherit the RNG bounce attacks from the secondary trait, this secondary trait was cut.
I will say though that pistols are something we’ll be looking to improve, being as they feel under-tuned at the moment.

-Karl

Ricochet shouldn’t be a trait anyway, it should be part of Unload. P/P is the only weapon set that trait for Ricochet so it only makes sense to add it to Unload. It will greatly improve the weaponset also.

babazhook.6805:

I disagree on the point regarding proccing a sigil with a sword. There a cooldown anyways meaning in a 3 second or 5 second period you will get as many procs off a sword as off a dagger. The build has a 59 percent base crit rate meaning in a 5 or even 3 second period of time math suggest there will be a proc even with slower weapons.

If you were proccing an item with a 1 second cooldown than faster is better. as in a sigil of strength would not be a great fit.

You got double RNG on these sigils (Crit chance + chance to proc on crit) meaning that to reliably proc them, you need a faster weapon — frequency is the key.

Have you even tried to compare them yourself in the Mist?

But if you really believe that the proc rate of the sigil on a sword is the same as on the dagger, then I’ll leave just you to that belief.

Maugetarr.6823:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

What: New Trait – Assassin’s Aura
Description: Grant Assassin’s Aura to nearby foes. Attacks deal damage to foes with Assassin’s Aura as if their armor is equal to zero (doesn’t affect damage reductions from buffs).

Did you mean toughness and not armor ? I think with the damage formula we’d end up with a divide by zero problem with this.

Ok, I guess a bit of explanation is needed. Basically the damage from Thief to a foe with the aura will be considered as either Condition Damage or as Falling Damage — which both damage ignores armor — hmm I probably should have used “ignore armor” instead.

Zero Day.2594:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

What: New Trait – Assassin’s Aura
Description: Grant Assassin’s Aura to nearby foes. Attacks deal damage to foes with Assassin’s Aura as if their armor is equal to zero (doesn’t affect damage reductions from buffs).

That’s just a tad-bit too strong to be considered a real change…

Nah, if you think about it, once the enemy gets the aura, then they know that the Thief is nearby and can react appropriately.

What: New Trait – Assassin’s Aura
Description: Grant Assassin’s Aura to nearby foes. Attacks deal damage to foes with Assassin’s Aura as if their armor is equal to zero (doesn’t affect damage reductions from buffs).

Zero Day.2594:

1111/10,
Will read again.

Can we get this stickied please. (Or have this constantly bumped)

Also,
The GTFO rotation needs some dodges in there to get the speed buff so you can run faster.

If only Thief can dodge as often and as efficient as the Devs….if only.

Amante.8109:

These are fixable problems, but unfortunately they seem to have no intention of doing so.

The intent is there for sure, but they simply don’t know how. They believe that EA is powerful enough and it shouldn’t be baseline.

The root of all our problems are those who QQ about Stealth — they need to be silenced once and for all. No QQ = no problem.

The Mechanic.3567:

Youl find yourself more effective if you just spec for max damage, forget the healing in stealth and actually learn to play well. A good thief gets in does damage then gets out.

This mindset is so 2012, get in with the time.

This idea of “gets in does damage then gets out” no longer possible. The reality is, Thief gets in, does damage, then die.

This is the reason for builds that allows the Thief to get out alive and your suggestion to “just spec for max damage, forget the healing in stealth and actually learn to play well” is nothing but a wishful thinking or you’re fighting against a dummy or a training golem in the mist.

Even in a team settings, if you spec glass cannon, expect to shatter into million pieces. And every time you go down, you’re not doing any DPS and you’re obligating one of your team members to rez you. Your idea of a build for a Thief is selfish and it’s not team oriented.

Shadow Protector is a very good trait in either single or team settings.

So I have to strongly disagree with you on this.

Oh and btw the “saint” traits arnt a gimmick. Its what makes a thief useful to his team. Its not just about damage. A good thief can pick his team mates up everytime. If your not getting your teamates off the ground your not doing a good job.

If a Thief builds “for max damage, forget the healing in stealth and actually learn to play well” just as you suggested, then that Thief will not be the one bringing their team off the ground. You can only “play well” enough until someone sneezes and one-shot you.

D/P is not “good” by a longshot compared to other profession’s weapon skill set — however it’s the only one that works, not because it’s good, but everything else are bad, including the new weapon (staff) at its current state.

-Addendum-

How do you build a ‘zerker/valk’?

First buy HoT. Then roll a Warrior. Equip Warrior with Valkyrie Armor.

Trying to proc a sigil using a Sword is not ideal because of its attack speed. Either you change your sigil or you change your weapon because the combination as is, is not very effective.

CnD is a nice skill but compare to Heartseeker, damage per initiative, it’s not that great. The only real use of CnD is to put you in stealth but that can be accomplished some other ways. There is a very good reason why HS + BP from the D/P set is very effective.

Melandru’s rune is nice against condition, but you are sacrificing 200 power for a rune that deals with condition while spec’d with Trickster. That’s a little paranoid against conditions that is better off sacrificing the rune to get more DPS.

I understand that you want to do something different bu tin the end, it’ll come back to D/P SA power build because that’s the only build that makes sense in this meta.

Karl McLain.5604:

Dust Strike: Reduced cast time from 1/2 second to 1/4 second.

Vault: Reduced initiative cost from 6 to 5. Reduced cast time from 1 second to 3/4 second. note: We’ve discussed leaving the initiative high and giving this ability an evade component at the beginning or end. Feel free to let us know what you think.

With evade: Cost 6 init and cast time none — functions like Dodge.

There is no point at making a skill with evade only to be hindered by casting time. In my opinion, all skills with evade should not have casting times because it makes it clunky and unresponsive to use (i.e. network lag, etc.). The only skill that you can evade with a skill with casting time is another skill with casting time — it doesn’t reward players in perfectly timing an evade.

Without evade: Keep it as is.

Distracting Daggers: Reduced equip cast time to 1/2 second. This ability now lasts for 25 seconds. Thrown dagger velocity has been increased by 100%. Fixed an issue that wouldn’t allow this ability to increase interrupt cooldown.

I don’t know why you have to make this skill function like a Venom or Mantra when you can just have it reload a dagger over time up to 3 daggers — like every 5 seconds. Just remove the required activation step, it is unnecessary. This way, you can control the number of daggers by increasing/decreasing the reload time.

Traits:
This iteration was mostly bug fixes. I’ve seen a lot of feedback on how Escapist’s Absolution should be baseline. It is the case that we believe this trait is powerful enough that it should be a choice in the trait line between damage, survivability and utility, rather than just a given. Driven Fortitude’s healing allows for usefulness in all modes where you take damage, where EA’s condition removal is situationally useful in a combat scenario.

EA should be baseline because it requires the Thief to successfully evade an attack in addition to the internal cooldown. Driven Fortitude’s healing is never sufficient without equipping gears with Healing Power. Equipping gears with Healing Power means the Thief is not doing the damage it should be doing.

Now compare this to Warrior’s Adrenal Heal where they get a passive heal every 3s just by standing still — no evade requirement, no skill requirement, no fiery hoops to jump into. The adrenaline level is not an issue because they can fill it up by shouting “To the Limit”.

Now compare how much survivability Warriors get with simple skills and traits to what Thief has to do just to get a single condition removed plus a heal. It is utterly imbalance and unreasonable that you believe that EA is “powerful enough”.

Do you really believe that your stance is justified in the upcoming meta where Warriors are given tools to be effective while Thieves are severely being limited to a point of ineffectiveness?

EA needs to be baseline — the upcoming meta requires it.

1) Remove casting time from weapon skills
2) Remove pre-cast delay from weapon skills
3) Remove after-cast delay from weapon skills
4) Stealth Attacks becomes Flanking Attacks — requires position instead of stealth (i.e. Attacking from the back will change Skill #1 to Backstab)
5) Evade time lasts for the whole skill animation (i.e. Death Blossom’s evade frame will be roughly 1s long)
6) Restore Feline Grace to 1.0 then add regen for successfully evading a non-AoE attack.
7) Change Last Refuge to Shadow Form — when health drops to 25%, prevent all damage for 5s-10s.
8) Bring back Pistol Mastery into CS, then give +20% damage bonus if using P/P. Get Initiative back for each critical hit.
9) Unload gets baseline 1050 Range and Ricochet.
10) Steal’s cooldown is 20s. Remove Steal CD reduction from Trickery.

Kageseigi.2150:

Why not use a signet/trapper build to have enough damage potential to instantly down a capper if you choose to do so?

Because it doesn’t exist. The non-Thief meta is too tanky to even think that insta-gibbing anyone is a possibility. The only one that is guaranteed to die is the Thief.

Or, if you are only running around (de)capping points and +1ing, why not go for full sustainability instead of damage?

Again, you can’t +1 with full sustain. Without damage items, you might as well not exists.

Sagat.3285:

Resilience is trash if the rest of the game didn’t get a damage boost and thief was made to facetank I would say otherwise

We’ll we differ in opinion.

it only applies while stealth I would take the 300 toughness and healing power instead.

Blind on CnD will only apply on stealth also — you’re not making any sense.

CnD advantage was quicker stealth that 1 attack that he missed is more significant then the healing of SRej with all the attacks since he doesn’t see you can reposition to avoid the rest.

You don’t need blind to do that. You can do that already with CnD even without spec-ing for CiS. Again, you’re not making sense.

SResilience is trash just lack SRej is trash if you have no means of safe healing thief facetanks terribly.

Take Withdraw? I mean, if you really want to heal yourself you don’t have to rely on SA. You can take Withdraw and spec Trickster.

Blind stacking just for thief is worth it??

Of course it is. It can efficiently prevent damage because it won’t come off easy by just spamming auto-attack.

How is giving CnD baseline blind or putting CiS back to master buffing anything that’s too strong?

It’s not about potency, it’s about availability. As I have explained already in my last post, giving CnD blind is short-sighted and doesn’t help other builds or opens up possible builds — it’s a selfish idea.

Did you use SResilience pre patch?

What’s “SResilience”? Do you mean Resilience of Shadows? That would be RoS or RS.

If that’s what you mean then no I did not, because it used to be a GM and I picked SR instead.

Sagat.3285:

A better one…putting CiS next to SRej is basically similar to removing blind from BP.

That is such a false statement.

CiS applies one stack of blind on stealth while BP applies blind for the duration — they have nothing in common, yet you make it sounds like they are one and the same.

Talk about apple and oranges.

If you want synergy and not forced traits like SE give CnD baseline blind and you can delete CiS.

There’s already a synergy in place. Resilience + SR — OR — Resilience + CiS

Sagat.3285:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

You didn’t understand my post.

If they are to keep CiS as is, then it doesn’t belong in GM, thus it has to move to a Master where your fear will be realized.

However, my position is to keep CiS in GM but make it way better than it is to rival SR — for instance, make it apply 5 stacks of Blind for 5s.

SR and CiS practically do the same thing. One regens health while the other prevents damage where the net result is the same, thus they shouldn’t be in the same build.

I’m disappointed in that judgement but glad someone made it this only applies when you play d/p because the blind portion is baseline on OH pistol(see where I am going?) without the blind to guarantee some of the healing SRej is adept level. Someone is going to call me stupid but think about coming up close with CnD and using SRej you will take more damage then if you were using CiS it’s trash without blind.

That’s not how you use CnD. Any Thief running in just to CnD are bad Thief.

Your argument is weak in part that even if CnD applies blind, you’re still running towards your target to CnD, thus by your own statement, you’re taking more damage.

Keep in mind that Blind only prevents the next attack, it’s not like it’s a duration debuff so even if you blind your target after CnD, they can remove blind just by spamming their Skill #1 — even if you’re in stealth.

So the two needs to be usable d/p doesn’t take it because again the blind is baseline that’s why the set works it’s called synergy which they broke when the two were put next to each other. You could delete CiS it’s fine as long CnD gets baseline blind.

The only reason why D/P works because Black Powder is a blind field that reapplies blind for the duration. Even if you give blind to CnD, that will only prevent the next attack which will still be inferior to Black Powder. So comparing the two is a bit silly because they don’t even do the same thing.

When they moved Resilience of Shadow to minor GM, that’s already better than applying blind because it reduces damage that synergized with SR. The synergy that you’re talking about doesn’t make any sense at all because CnD applying blind will not prevent as much damage as Resilence of Shadow in practice. This idea is a bit short-sighted.

Vincent I hope you get that as well.

What Thief need is not buffing only one skill, rather an overall improvement for stealth. A CiS that applies 5 stacks of Blind for 5s will not only improve CnD, but also other skills that put you in stealth (i.e. Hidden Thief).

I agree that CnD needs improvement, but I refuse to agree on a solution that only improves that specific skill instead of looking for a solution that will improve other builds as well.

Bunker turns your daggers to wet noodles and bullets to rice balls…I don’t bother wasting my time on them.

T raw.4658:

4. Vincent: Many are clamoring for blind to be added to CnD. That would give blind to non SA thieves right? As for moving being able to have CiS, SR, SE, and -25% damage….Yeah no. That’s a bit much.

You didn’t understand my post.

If they are to keep CiS as is, then it doesn’t belong in GM, thus it has to move to a Master where your fear will be realized.

However, my position is to keep CiS in GM but make it way better than it is to rival SR — for instance, make it apply 5 stacks of Blind for 5s.

SR and CiS practically do the same thing. One regens health while the other prevents damage where the net result is the same, thus they shouldn’t be in the same build.

Lettuce.2945:

Rangers are a hard counter to thieves. Very wrong there. Just proved that you don’t pvp much.

lol @ “hard counter”.

Rangers are free loot bags. Just ask any WvW Thief.

They pose no threat at all. Their pet are their undoing.

Obviously, you haven’t played WvW much.

T raw.4658:

The blind on stealth was moved to GM prolly due to the fact of P/D being able to spec fully into 3 lines.

I highly doubt that is the reason. It seems that though they have no idea where to put it so they choose a slot where it doesn’t belong in its current state. The only way to justify CiS being a GM is to make it better in par with SR.

I’m sorry but before the patch looking a 3 GM trait P/D thief screamed OP.

OP based on what? It’s not like Thief is the only one who has access to 3 GMs. For each GM that other professions also take, the effectiveness of 3 GM P/D diminishes. This “OP” stance is not based on reality.

Also you remember that S/D the “evasion” weaponset would be getting access to blinds as well. You pair Blind on stealth, 25% damage reduction in stealth, AND Shadow Rejuv on those builds and we’d be facing the nerf bat.

You’re not making any sense. If you believe that S/D is the “evasion” weapon set, then they would invest in Acro — not SA. :/

I suggest reverting the nerfs to our defensive trait lines first, and while I agree that D/D power thief needs help YOU have to remember that buffing OH Dagger will inevitably buff Dire P/D. <—-Needs to become an unviable option for thieves.

I dislike suggestions that takes away viability from any build.

Kocoff.7582:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

1 – Necromancer — troublesome the most, but you cannot take them out alone
2 – Elementalist — you’ll die before you get close
3 – Mesmer — they out stealth you and you’ll die from either burst or affliction
4 – Engineer — good luck getting close to them, you won’t die right away
5 – Guardian — they are squishy but the window is so slim
6 – Warrior — OP as kitten, don’t even bother
7 – Ranger — none existence, even when they are standing in front of you, they tickle
8 – Thief — if you can find them…
9 – Revenant — stay far far away

That’s my list. Feel free to disagree.

that’s interesting, it’s somewhat in order of threat?

Not exactly. Necro and Ele are top priority because they have access to the most annoying AoEs. If you let a Necro live, it will spam AoE that heals their ally and debuff yours, thus they need to go down first. Ele makes sure that their Necro is safe. These two are the most troublesome in a zerg vs zerg fights, not to mention that Necro also have access to AoE fear.

This is not based on what I’ve seen from the opposition, it is from what I’ve seen we’re doing in our zerg group and it works every time. If you can protect your Necro and Ele, you can push back any zerg group — after HoT, I won’t be surprised seeing Reapers in the front line doing what they do now but with greater potency.

1 – Necromancer — troublesome the most, but you cannot take them out alone
2 – Elementalist — you’ll die before you get close
3 – Mesmer — they out stealth you and you’ll die from either burst or affliction
4 – Engineer — good luck getting close to them, you won’t die right away
5 – Guardian — they are squishy but the window is so slim
6 – Warrior — OP as kitten, don’t even bother
7 – Ranger — none existence, even when they are standing in front of you, they tickle
8 – Thief — if you can find them…
9 – Revenant — stay far far away

That’s my list. Feel free to disagree.

laquito.5269:

I’m not intending to nerf pistol offhand, I just want the SA D/P Spec to be nerfed, thats why SA has to be nerfed in one way or another.

Switching Hidden Thief and Cloak in Shadows will not meet your goal. In fact, it will instead empower the SA D/P build because they will simply abuse the “might on stealth” from CiS.

CiS is at the right position in GM. Instead of switching things around, CiS need to be at the same power level kitten. One way to do this is to buff, not nerf, CiS to apply stacking Blind condition — 5 stacks of Blind for 5s will make this trait appealing enough to rival SR for the GM spot.

They could buff the kitten out of Critical Strikes and Acro and people would still rather play SA, because of its current design (passive kitten ftw) and its (exclusive) synergy with D/P. A simple buff to CS or Acro won’t change the D/P SA Meta.

I disagree. If they buffed Acro the right way, starting by rolling back Feline Grace to its former glory, then you’ll see other builds other than D/P. We’ve seen other builds before, it’s just that ArenaNet is a control freak that wants every Thief build on a leash.

I don’t get how you can possibly be against my suggestion, its certainly not the best, but it makes offhand dagger more viable for any spec and only slightly nerfs D/P by not being able to get Hiddenkiller and Shadow Rejuvenation.

Read above for my reasons for disagreeing. Nerfing was never, and should never be, a solution.

Daendur.2357:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Daendur.2357:

so your logic is: since every trait line sucks, except SA (which is pretty bad after patch) let’s nerf SA so thieves can choose the way they prefer to die, while being useless to a group.

What he meant was nerf SA that benefits only D/P then rebalance it to benefit other builds. Right now, D/P is the only one capitalizing the trait line.

I do not agree with his method, but that is what I think he’s saying.

I think that it will be better to not nerf anything and boost the trait lines that are UP. So thief can maybe become in par with other professions.

I agree completely because nerfing hurts a lot more builds than actually hurting the intended build. When they nerfed Black Powder because of D/P, P/P died.

It’s obvious that they are aiming to release this expansion on the 3rd anniversary, but now that they have pushed it to Oct, they have to make the investors happy this quarter that’s why they have these 3rd Anniversary Sales going on ever since then — to keep the cash flowing on a missed deadline.

So I really doubt that they can push the date even later. The original prediction was to release it at 4Q 2015, but releasing it in Oct makes it 1Q 2016.

That’s a lot of work for so little time.

Daendur.2357:

so your logic is: since every trait line sucks, except SA (which is pretty bad after patch) let’s nerf SA so thieves can choose the way they prefer to die, while being useless to a group.

What he meant was nerf SA that benefits only D/P then rebalance it to benefit other builds. Right now, D/P is the only one capitalizing the trait line.

I do not agree with his method, but that is what I think he’s saying.

No other builds should benefit from Ricochet so just give Ricochet and +150 range to Unload.

Case close.

All I can say is, DD Staff + S/P will see a lot of Raid runs. In as much as the Staff is under the scrutiny light right now, leap is sometimes better than shadowstep.

Amante.8109:

Well, there’s scales of changes they can make. For Thieves to truly be whole again, the profession needs some deep work for sure. That said, I’d rather they implement some smaller scale fixes in the meantime—like more core durability from higher base HP— rather than continuing to do absolutely nothing. They could stand to be more communicative, too.

The problem with that approach is that they will need to nerf it once they’ve finished the fixes. I rather see them make the fixes then see if they really need to adjust any of the numbers.

Besides, increasing the base HP means nothing if the damage from everything else increases too. What the Thief need is to be unshackled and to be allowed to use their active damage mitigation unhindered by casting time and pre-/post-cast delays.

Sometimes I think they’re afraid to buff or even talk to us in small ways, lest 1> we perceive it to not be enough

The fact is, they have no idea how the Thief works.

How can you talk about something you have no knowledge of?

The best thing they can do is listen and not do whatever they want even though what they are doing destroys the “fun” out of the profession.

…and 2> the rest of the community flips out with their usual “omg anet y u buff alredy op teef” nonsense. Still…

That’s why they need to stop tweaking numbers and start fixing the mechanic so that the profession plays properly and flows smoothly.

Endlos.4852:

evilapprentice.6379:

The more I think about it, the more I wonder…who designed DD? How did it get approved?

Pretty sure it’s the same guy that did Dragon Hunter and Tempest.

No further comment should be necessary, but I’ll highlight the disparity:

Look at some of the specs that Robert Gee has worked on. Chronomancer came out of the gate amazing. Reaper hit BWE#1 with a decent foundation, some under-tuned math, and a few really bad mechanics. Both professions got extremely lengthy, detailed feedback responses from Gee that highlighted player concerns and adjustments in attempt to address them. BWE#2 comes and Chronomancer is still awesome, Reaper saw massive improvements not just in its numbers tuning but some of its mechanics and skill function were changed. Berserker felt unimpressive to me so far, because the new Zerk class skill seemed to be way too gimmicky just for the sake of being gimmicky with little-to-no tangible payoff, but I have full faith that Gee will take player concerns to heart and Zerk will improve for BWE#3 the same way Reaper improved for BWE#2.

Now look at DH and Tempest. The first responses after BWE#1 came later than Gee’s comments on his babies, were brief, and entirely missed the mark in many cases (“People seemed to like ______” when the overwhelming feedback was that ______ had no purpose and was actually detrimental to use) and proposed nothing more than some math adjustments even to skills that were obviously mechanically broken and almost no mention of trait fixes. Later responses conceded that other stuff needed work, too, but little of it would be done in time for BWE#2.

I like the concept of Daredevil, but, frankly and sadly, I don’t think nor expect we’ll see that concept fully realized within the game.

Great analysis. I am following the development of Reaper too and you’re spot on.

Lettuce.2945:

I had no issues fighting a reaper as an acro/dd/trickery s/d + sb thief with no dodge trait. Sounds like an adjustment issue to me. The hard counter that I see to thieves atm is revenants with the sword 3. Even on acro/dd, can’t dodge the entire burst. That skill is so unskillful, it procs even if it misses on the first hit which rewards bad gameplay.

What exactly “no issues” mean? Did you mean you have no issue running away from a node using SB#5 when they show up to retake it?

I felt that s/d acro was a lot more viable with the new traits especially in tpvp compared to d/p SA.

Any build is viable in PvP as long as you know how to use SB#5.

Amante.8109:

It’s easier to make shallow number buffs/nerfs than it is deep mechanical changes… and Thief needs some deep mechanical changes. Unfortunately, we’ll probably be stuck in this state for a while.

Exactly! They take the easy lazy route when it comes to Thieves yet they are willing to make drastic mechanical change for the Warriors (see the Elite Adrenaline bar).

The imbalance in terms of attention is as plain as day.

If they do want to just throw out some numbers, though, I’ll take a few thousand more base HP so I don’t instantly explode the moment dodges and Shadowstep are down. Thanks ANet

Don’t be complacent to their lazy solutions else we’ll never see genuine and honest change.

Like the saying goes; “If you’re satisfied when someone throw you a bone, that’s all you’re going to get.”

Amante.8109:

Acrobatics has mediocre, underbudgeted trait in it; water is wet. More at 11.

You forgot;

“This is Amante reporting from GW2 Thief Forum. Back to you Karl.”

Amante.8109:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

They should really start by fixing our current skills (i.e. animation, pre-cast delay, after-cast delay, rooting, non-intteruptable skills, etc.) before tweaking anymore traits.

The two are so interrelated, though. Certain potentially useful skills are hindered by poor trait choices or vice versa.

I didn’t say “instead of” so I’m not sure what you’re implying.

Really, we need a thorough look-see overall, but I’d take a revamp of traits OR skills at this point.

We don’t need a “revamp”, what we need is a genuinely and honest profession fix. The timing has to play smoothly and they need to flow properly. If they can do that, Thief players will know how to protect themselves without the needs for buffs.

The way I see it is, they want to buff other sections of the profession because they either don’t know how to fix it or didn’t really care on fixing it or for some other reason not known to us. Whatever the reasons are, the fact remains that the reason why D/P is popular it’s not really about the numbers that they can tweak, but rather that the weapon set really flows properly and plays smoothly.

So if they focus on fixing the flow and play of the Thief, they may not even need to tweak any of the numbers nor do they need to give Thief buffs.

babazhook.6805:

Go back to the Revenant posts when first released or the first trials of the Necromancer.

Read them today. They all went from Gloom and doom to this profession is useless to wow…Give it some time. Thief was released for tests 5 days ago and no neither Revenant or Necromancer was fixed 5 days later.

It’s been 3 years and Thief is not yet fixed. How much longer do we have to wait?

godmoney.6025:

Revealed training is good for PVE, it is however out-shined by Panic Strike in PVP/WvW.

If you’re only talking about D/P, sure that’s true, but if you’re talking about all Thief builds in general, then you’re wrong.

a.) Rework the +200 power bonus to rather give 7 stacks of Might (210 Power).This does two things. It synergizes better with certain runes like Runes of Strength and boon duration foods, etc. Also adds some counter play (susceptible to boon stealing/corrupting).

I don’t think so. This will only give the opposition ammunitions to take out the Thief. Necro is already a PITA and you want to give them more ammunition?

We don’t need any more counter play, that’s what Reveal is there for. You’re basically saying that attacking from stealth gives the opposition 2 counter plays: Revealed debuff + boon strip. Why not just insta-kill the Thief?

Might stacking is something thieves have been missing since the removal of the might on stealth minor trait in the old SA line. I feel this change I propose would make it less passive, since you only gain might on exiting stealth instead of sitting in stealth.

If you really think that we need might stacks, then the Dev probably need to give us more baseline damage so that we don’t have to rely on traits to actually matter.

The Thief class should shoudn’t have to rely on buffs, that play style should be reserved for Guardians. The main issue here is that the Devs have lost track on what they want Thief to do, just look at the Thief’s Elite Spec if you want an example.

b.) Also give either Resistance boon or Protection boon ( I know Protection has been suggested a few times before). Giving ourselves some counter to all the reveal skills/traits other classes are getting.

I rather have the Dev allow stackable Blind so that I don’t have to rely on boons for survivability.

If Cloak in Shadow applies 5 stacks of Blind for 5s (each attack removes a stack), then we don’t need a lot of buffs for survivability.

Also they need to fix our skills animation especially the skills that allows us to evade starting by removing the pre-cast delays and casting time on all of them. This delay is very noticeable with Death Blossom.

They should really start by fixing our current skills (i.e. animation, pre-cast delay, after-cast delay, rooting, non-intteruptable skills, etc.) before tweaking anymore traits.

Reading up about DD really makes it look like a really good spec. Just like Bushy Brow from Naruto, the Dev just have to put a lot of dead weights on DD just to make it “fair” instead of taking the weights off and let the profession breath for once.

I hate to do this but this panda knows how to use a staff…

Arctarius.2649:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Thief uses Staff in a primitive fighting style no different than picking up a random stick and whipping it around. The OP’s illustration looks like an artistic fighting style that was developed for hundreds, if not thousands, of years.

Since the staff fighting is not something that was introduced in GW1 where it would have been developed for 250 years come GW2…it looks stupid.

That is my in-game lore assessment why Staff fighting looks ridiculous, awkward, and stupid.

Well frankly allot of us don’t give a kitten about lore when it comes to altering our main profession for the worst.. Aside from that apparently you never played a thief/ daredevil. Because no.. They don’t fight primitively. The 5 skill on staff sends them flying pulling off a corkscrew front flip then smashing the staff down. You go and pick up a stick outside for me and send us all a video of you doing this “primitive” move then ok? Meanwhile I’m going to continue petitioning these animations until hopefully Anet notices and makes all of them look fitting and not just one skill.. It was a bad move on their part and there’s no getting around it with lore as a poor excuse to reuse 3 year old animations.

(waving a hand over my head)

knyy.6427:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

These thread is making me convinced to stay away from this expansion. These are not good feedback.

well, we can just hope our feedback, suggestions and uproar is enough to get the daredevil changed.
i see the biggest offender in the dodges and animations, followed by staffskills, utilities and traits have the least complaints.

The problem is, those animations might be controlled by hard coded instructions that may not be easily fixed. I doubt that they will make the fixes that were suggested here in time for release.

If they did recycled some animation, like the Dash, then it is not very likely that they will change that to something we prefer. That pretty much is set in stone that after release that we have to deal with — as usual.

Karl’s team have not shown anything that makes me really hopeful on what they can do. It seems to that they are more focus on putting something out, whatever the quality is, rather than putting something out that they can be honestly be proud of.

No, putting effort into something is not something to be proud of. What they should be proud of is delivering a high quality something that makes their efforts worthwhile — and profitable.

So far, I rather spend my money somewhere else — or maybe buy HoT so I can play Reaper since it seems that there is no hope for Thieves.