Guild Wars 2

At least we didn’t get the visual noise nerf.

DeceiverX.8361:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Silverbolt.2301:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Silverbolt.2301:

If you want to make D/D better though, what you should fix is C&D.

Backstab has nothing to do with CnD since CnD is just one of many ways to go in stealth. Fixing CnD will not fix backstab if you’re not using D/D.

That’s because there’s nothing to fix on BS.

If you give a kitten about your class, you should be asking for and suggesting meaningful changes. Not nonsense like buffs to BS.

It’s not nonsense at all. BS has been the same since release while other parts of the game received power creeps.

BS should ignore armor and should be unblockable.

LOL

You do realize this would cause the skill to deal an upwards of 40 million damage at times, right?

Yea, no. Maug has it right in that stab is fine. The rest of the skills surrounding it need work, though, primarily OH dagger. It’s more of a trait issue than anything and the rest of the game getting a lot of power creep that’s hopefully balanced out tomorrow or in the near future.

When I said ignore armor it doesn’t necessarily mean ignore 100% armor. The actual amount can be tweaked based on the current meta. With too many bunkers everywhere, who can also deal insane amount of damage, Thief needs this.

Silverbolt.2301:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Silverbolt.2301:

If you want to make D/D better though, what you should fix is C&D.

Backstab has nothing to do with CnD since CnD is just one of many ways to go in stealth. Fixing CnD will not fix backstab if you’re not using D/D.

That’s because there’s nothing to fix on BS.

If you give a kitten about your class, you should be asking for and suggesting meaningful changes. Not nonsense like buffs to BS.

It’s not nonsense at all. BS has been the same since release while other parts of the game received power creeps.

BS should ignore armor and should be unblockable.

Silverbolt.2301:

If you want to make D/D better though, what you should fix is C&D.

Backstab has nothing to do with CnD since CnD is just one of many ways to go in stealth. Fixing CnD will not fix backstab if you’re not using D/D.

You suppose to hold the spear in your hand.

Doggie.3184:

Soooo… anyone notice that when you use bounding dodge underwater it becomes a powerful pelvic thrust attack? May possibly be one of our most amazing techniques. ;o

Nice screenshot but wrong weapon. The appropriate weapon is a spear.

EvilSardine.9635:

Vault needs a nerf and backstab might need a buff.

Vault is not “hard to land” and being able to spam 10k AOE damage back to back is a bit much especially since it requires ZERO setup compared to backstab.

Don’t propose a nerf to a skill when comparing it to another skill that has been nerfed to uselessness. That’s simply irresponsible.

Rather buff the other skills back to usefulness.

There’s one factor that affects the DDs DPS that should be considered when talking about PvE, that is survivability.

While a Revenant can literally tank-and-spank, DD has to dodge-and-spank and every time a DD dodges, its DPS drops considerably — except when traited with Bound and used offensively. Dash results in worst DPS due to longer dodge animation.

The main issue with Bound is when the DD used it as an offensive skill — they’ll lose it as a defensive skill. Assuming that the DD used Bound as an offensive, the likelihood of the DD popping up a heal gets higher — meaning more DPS drops.

In order for the DD to do less dodging and less healing is to have a dedicated healer on the DD so that they can focus on pure DPS.

So in a pre-made group setting where buffs are abundant and there’s a dedicated healer, theoretically it is more beneficial to only have one Herald (for the party buff) and the rest of DPS to be DD rather than having multiple Heralds. Again, the squishiness of the DD is a major factor even though there is a dedicated healer.

Hikigaya.9621:

Hey guys, I found a way to use tripwire in pvp , cast tripwire and then immedietly cast steal or infiltraitors for a knock down. Basically same combo as s/d ele lightning flash and earthquake combo. pretty neat

The novelty of this combo wears off after a while seeing that you can only do this every 24s-30s. Eventually, you’ll opt-in for a more versatile utility skill.

Moises.2196:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Moises.2196:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Moises.2196:

Flanking Strike- deal more damage and be unblockable. (s/d should be the “unblockable” set)

larcenous Strike- should be accessible whether you landed flanking strike or not. (give us more access to dps if you’re going to take feline grace away.)

Completely disagree. It’s fine as is, except for the cost.

What needs to happen with FS/LS is for their cost to be swapped. FS should cost 1-init and LS should cost 4-init. The current cost for each skill is mind-bogglingly stupid.

I thought about that but noticed that all thief weapon skill 3 are 4 initiative or more.

You can’t really base the value of this skill on other skills in other weapon sets, otherwise you won’t even consider buffing this skill when compared to Unload.

Instead, you need to look at the entire set and decide what is appropriate. Having a cost of 4-init to an evade skill with low damage is stupid. Either they buff the skill or reduce the cost — I vote on reduced cost. Reducing the cost will make this weapon set to go up to almost the same level as the Staff currently. Allocating the high cost to the skill that deals more damage and is unblockable makes more sense.

They do this to prevent over spamming a good skill that tends to deal a good amount of damage that evades or blinds.

I disagree. The damage is so minimal to make it worth spamming. Reducing the cost will make it a mistake-friendly-skill. Since you have to hit in order to trigger LS, FS shouldn’t be punishing — that’s just stupid in many ways.

I think that if you use 4 initiative for an evade you should be provided with a strong attack on your next move. If not this, then simply combine both skills into one and balance that out however appropriate.

Exactly! High cost should mean high damage, thus the cost needs to be swapped.

The 4 initiative is there because it has an evade. An evade at the cost of 1 initiative is ridiculous.

A cost of 1-init for evade is very appropriate for a profession in dire need for survivability. S/D has no defensive utility other than this skill.

Even so, you have no justification to keep FS at 4-init — 4-init for an evade is what’s ridiculous. Keep in mind that 4-init is 1/3 of our resources — no skill should cost that much for a lousy evade.

Let’s put it in perspective. Let’s use your method, let’s compare skills.

Pistol Whip costs 6 init that deals 1000 damage, that’s 166dmg per init. FS costs 4 init that deals 280dmg, which is 70dmg per init.

That’s one expensive evade.

Now let’s compare LS with PW if LS would costs 4. LS costs 4 init that deals 560dmg, which is 140 dmg per init — which is appropriate given that it is unblockable and strips boon. The damage is inline with PW’s damage per init.

If you think FS costing 1-init is ridiculous, LS costing 1-init is even more so.

If you think that FS should cost 4-init, LS should also cost 4-init making the skill as a whole costs 8 init. >.<’

The value of FS is worth 1-initiative and the value of LS is worth 4-initiative.

SB’s Disabling shot is weak but is still 4 initiatives because it has an evade. You have to compare it to the other weapon sets to make sure its balanced in comparison.

That’s your problem there, you’re using other weapon set as your basis instead of looking at the weaponset on its own.

If you look at unload that deals a massive amount of damage from range and that’s balanced out by the lack of an evade or blind. If you look at shadow shot that provides an unblockable blind and a shadowstep that deals a good amount of damage. This is okay too since it doesn’t provide an evade and you are vulnerable to aoe or other enemies attacks. The same logic is applied to all weapon sets.

This argument is irrelevant because each weapon set does its own thing which are completely different from other weapon set so trying to compare them to each other is like comparing an apple to a tomato.

Giving an evade skill 1 initiative is so broken and way too forgiving. You made the point that having them keep the current initiative cost would be too punishing since they have to land FS and that is why I suggested that you shouldn’t have to land the skill. This way, if you decide to use 4 initiative on an evade skill that does little damage to gain access to a strong skill, there is some fair game to it.

Removing the required hit will make it broken and we’ve already seen why — FS will not be used as intended. There’s no way it will go back to that and since that is more likely the case, swapping the cost is the only reasonable and smart solution.

Nobody will use a skill for the evade if it will cost 4-init. Lowering it to 1-init will encourage the use as both evade and granting access to LS.

This would reward good players that don’t waste an evade for a skill that isn’t the easiest to land.

Not requiring a hit will guarantee that FS will be wasted, because it will be precasted so that the next attack will be LS.

No way it’s going back to that.

As I said earlier, they should make it so that you don’t have to land FS to gain access to LC or combine the 2 skills into 1 and balance that out accordingly. Having an evade at the cost of 1 initiative is just too much. Also, if you looked at all the suggestions I made you would see that there is plenty of initiative replenishment to cover this.

I don’t agree sorry.

I have posted my opinion, so good luck with your endeavors.

DeceiverX.8361:

You’d be hitting harder using Vault. It’s got better damage than backstab.

As long as this remains true, no point on building around backstab.

Moises.2196:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Moises.2196:

Flanking Strike- deal more damage and be unblockable. (s/d should be the “unblockable” set)

larcenous Strike- should be accessible whether you landed flanking strike or not. (give us more access to dps if you’re going to take feline grace away.)

Completely disagree. It’s fine as is, except for the cost.

What needs to happen with FS/LS is for their cost to be swapped. FS should cost 1-init and LS should cost 4-init. The current cost for each skill is mind-bogglingly stupid.

I thought about that but noticed that all thief weapon skill 3 are 4 initiative or more.

You can’t really base the value of this skill on other skills in other weapon sets, otherwise you won’t even consider buffing this skill when compared to Unload.

Instead, you need to look at the entire set and decide what is appropriate. Having a cost of 4-init to an evade skill with low damage is stupid. Either they buff the skill or reduce the cost — I vote on reduced cost. Reducing the cost will make this weapon set to go up to almost the same level as the Staff currently. Allocating the high cost to the skill that deals more damage and is unblockable makes more sense.

They do this to prevent over spamming a good skill that tends to deal a good amount of damage that evades or blinds.

I disagree. The damage is so minimal to make it worth spamming. Reducing the cost will make it a mistake-friendly-skill. Since you have to hit in order to trigger LS, FS shouldn’t be punishing — that’s just stupid in many ways.

I think that if you use 4 initiative for an evade you should be provided with a strong attack on your next move. If not this, then simply combine both skills into one and balance that out however appropriate.

Exactly! High cost should mean high damage, thus the cost needs to be swapped.

Moises.2196:

Flanking Strike- deal more damage and be unblockable. (s/d should be the “unblockable” set)

larcenous Strike- should be accessible whether you landed flanking strike or not. (give us more access to dps if you’re going to take feline grace away.)

Completely disagree. It’s fine as is, except for the cost.

What needs to happen with FS/LS is for their cost to be swapped. FS should cost 1-init and LS should cost 4-init. The current cost for each skill is mind-bogglingly stupid.

darkaheart.4265:

So the only reason I’m using my thief in HoT is to rather enough hero points to unlock the whole elite spec since all the hero points of Tyria arent enough. I notice this weekend when i entered HoT i was having a hard time surviving due to NPC high damage and only healing with Withdraw. so i started using Signet of Malice and Invigorating Precision but now im relaying on it too much.

so my question is, what build are you guys use in HoT, if youre using a thief?

Im currently using my wvw build but do you guys think is enough.

Your build should be fine if you have not unlocked the Staff yet, but you should consider using S/P instead for cleave and AoE blind. I would personally use Withdraw because it’s an anti-CC, anti-condition, evade, and lots of heal. When you unlocked Channeled Vigor, switch to it as soon as possible. Eventually, CV and Dash will replace Withdraw.

Very nice. I can actually picture someone who falls victim to this. They get stacks of vulnerability while you get stacks of might.

I used to run Ambush + TG with my P/P build so long time ago and this just reminds me of how fun it was.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Funny how readers often mistaken the intention of the OP.

Just to be clear, the OP wants all these “Thief Counters” to be nerfed illustrating how unbalance these anti-Thief skills currently are.

I agree on most, but not all, especially about the 2 point strat — I’ve seen this too many times. When a team refused to rotate, thus 2 point strat, the Thief’s mobility becomes useless since there will be nothing to decap.

Hogwash

We all know thief counters will never be nerfed, ever

I never said it will. As I pointed out, the 2 point strat was developed to be an anti-rotation strategy where the main purpose is to eliminate the mobility advantage of the opposition – basically, anti-Thief — but more specifically, it’s the players’ way of telling to the Devs that making the Thief a mobility profession having a role of +1 and decapping is so foxing stupid.

Funny how readers often mistaken the intention of the OP.

Just to be clear, the OP wants all these “Thief Counters” to be nerfed illustrating how unbalance these anti-Thief skills currently are.

I agree on most, but not all, especially about the 2 point strat — I’ve seen this too many times. When a team refused to rotate, thus 2 point strat, the Thief’s mobility becomes useless since there will be nothing to decap.

Mahuyo.3079:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Mahuyo.3079:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Mahuyo.3079:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Mahuyo.3079:

Okay, so I’m thing about taking my Thief in to raids and maybe try a build that i used when i started. It is a Venom build kinda made to be more like a Vampire build.

First of all this needs to be updated. Whatever build you used to run with may no longer work. One particular change you may not be aware of is that venom now checks for your stats, so having no condition damage will result in sharing weak venoms.

Now the Question is that Venomous Aura give u life steal, now i have not done this i a while, does life steal still have a base on power or is it solely on Healing Power.

Damage is based on your power and healing is based on your healing power.

Thank you

I do know that the build would need to be updated, that is the basic plan of Theory Crafting. But, for me to some how put this thought into practice i would have to update it to today’s standards which is what is there, and that is what i’m looking at right now. I knew Healing Power was a part of the equation, the thing i was not sure about was whether or not Power was part of the equation still. I just made another build which is more of what I’m might play in the raids.

But I will note this is not a be-all-end-all for the build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsYVnMJCFNhNNBmOB8PhjniyHCpwLwPyBIA2DZj9dA-TRCBABXcCAeUJY07PwqyPAOEAoqPQV1f2/BAEwRAAA-e

Interesting take on Venom Share.

So you choose to have high Power so that your own DPS will remain high while providing party-wide DPS thru life steal via venom share.

To be honest, that’s very clever and I’m very interested in how this will work out. It looks very solid. You should try No Quarters instead of Invigorating Precision for more DPS. The life steal will be enough of sustain.

You’ve tickled my curiosity. good job.

Thx

I also do thing that thief might work as a sort of tank but more as a Agi Tank, which here is kind hard because of the constant dodging and Spamming skills you mostlikely will have to do. But if i did that i most-likely would have DD, but i’m not familiar with all of Thief’s evade skills, i know that S/D 3 has a evade, but i only know that because i used that for daily dodge.

If you have this build before HoT, it may not work. But ever since they made the extra venom tick baseline and reduced their CD, I can see your build as a party support. Since this kind of build is new to me, I can’t really comment on how well it will do, but I can see the potential.

The 1st build would be an update of the build to the new system, i was using when i first started, whether it’s is good or not i used it, the second build is what i can come up with with the armor and the traits, that i think might work the best for the build
I really just did this, with some of the knowledge that i have now with the game. But, I do think the real trick to raids is to support your allies, and not DPSing or high DMG (to me their is a difference).

Looking at your 2nd build, it seems like you can do both dps and support just fine.

One area of concern is the low toughness but if you know what you’re doing, I think you would be ok.

Mahuyo.3079:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Mahuyo.3079:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Mahuyo.3079:

Okay, so I’m thing about taking my Thief in to raids and maybe try a build that i used when i started. It is a Venom build kinda made to be more like a Vampire build.

First of all this needs to be updated. Whatever build you used to run with may no longer work. One particular change you may not be aware of is that venom now checks for your stats, so having no condition damage will result in sharing weak venoms.

Now the Question is that Venomous Aura give u life steal, now i have not done this i a while, does life steal still have a base on power or is it solely on Healing Power.

Damage is based on your power and healing is based on your healing power.

Thank you

I do know that the build would need to be updated, that is the basic plan of Theory Crafting. But, for me to some how put this thought into practice i would have to update it to today’s standards which is what is there, and that is what i’m looking at right now. I knew Healing Power was a part of the equation, the thing i was not sure about was whether or not Power was part of the equation still. I just made another build which is more of what I’m might play in the raids.

But I will note this is not a be-all-end-all for the build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsYVnMJCFNhNNBmOB8PhjniyHCpwLwPyBIA2DZj9dA-TRCBABXcCAeUJY07PwqyPAOEAoqPQV1f2/BAEwRAAA-e

Interesting take on Venom Share.

So you choose to have high Power so that your own DPS will remain high while providing party-wide DPS thru life steal via venom share.

To be honest, that’s very clever and I’m very interested in how this will work out. It looks very solid. You should try No Quarters instead of Invigorating Precision for more DPS. The life steal will be enough of sustain.

You’ve tickled my curiosity. good job.

Thx

I also do thing that thief might work as a sort of tank but more as a Agi Tank, which here is kind hard because of the constant dodging and Spamming skills you mostlikely will have to do. But if i did that i most-likely would have DD, but i’m not familiar with all of Thief’s evade skills, i know that S/D 3 has a evade, but i only know that because i used that for daily dodge.

If you have this build before HoT, it may not work. But ever since they made the extra venom tick baseline and reduced their CD, I can see your build as a party support. Since this kind of build is new to me, I can’t really comment on how well it will do, but I can see the potential.

infinityandbeyond.9652:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

How else did the Dev made Revenant if not by taking from both Warrior and Thief?

From here on i’ll refer to Revenants as ‘John Snow’ :P

Have we met on the battlefield ? I’m the condi-cheese berserker running sword/torch, mace/shield with perplexity runes.

I’m not sure if we have, but I do remember a couple of Berserker Warriors. One got a first jumped on me on my way to a node — almost took him down with me. The other downed me after they got up from that cheese Warrior skill called Vengeance — that Warrior died afterwards.

I don’t remember anyone running with mace/shield, both were using GS.

Mahuyo.3079:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Mahuyo.3079:

Okay, so I’m thing about taking my Thief in to raids and maybe try a build that i used when i started. It is a Venom build kinda made to be more like a Vampire build.

First of all this needs to be updated. Whatever build you used to run with may no longer work. One particular change you may not be aware of is that venom now checks for your stats, so having no condition damage will result in sharing weak venoms.

Now the Question is that Venomous Aura give u life steal, now i have not done this i a while, does life steal still have a base on power or is it solely on Healing Power.

Damage is based on your power and healing is based on your healing power.

Thank you

I do know that the build would need to be updated, that is the basic plan of Theory Crafting. But, for me to some how put this thought into practice i would have to update it to today’s standards which is what is there, and that is what i’m looking at right now. I knew Healing Power was a part of the equation, the thing i was not sure about was whether or not Power was part of the equation still. I just made another build which is more of what I’m might play in the raids.

But I will note this is not a be-all-end-all for the build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsYVnMJCFNhNNBmOB8PhjniyHCpwLwPyBIA2DZj9dA-TRCBABXcCAeUJY07PwqyPAOEAoqPQV1f2/BAEwRAAA-e

Interesting take on Venom Share.

So you choose to have high Power so that your own DPS will remain high while providing party-wide DPS thru life steal via venom share.

To be honest, that’s very clever and I’m very interested in how this will work out. It looks very solid. You should try No Quarters instead of Invigorating Precision for more DPS. The life steal will be enough of sustain.

You’ve tickled my curiosity. good job.

How else did the Dev made Revenant if not by taking from both Warrior and Thief?

Mahuyo.3079:

Okay, so I’m thing about taking my Thief in to raids and maybe try a build that i used when i started. It is a Venom build kinda made to be more like a Vampire build.

First of all this needs to be updated. Whatever build you used to run with may no longer work. One particular change you may not be aware of is that venom now checks for your stats, so having no condition damage will result in sharing weak venoms.

Now the Question is that Venomous Aura give u life steal, now i have not done this i a while, does life steal still have a base on power or is it solely on Healing Power.

Damage is based on your power and healing is based on your healing power.

When the Developer nerfed a profession to the ground without proper explanation of the reasons why, they lose esport credibility and their game is not something you take seriously. Any developer with serious power issue is not an entity to be trusted. They more than eager to nerf a profession they are having trouble with playing against, and buff the profession they are currently playing than staying objective and find an honest and proper balance.

They don’t want Thieves in the tournament so they nerfed the profession to the ground — mission accomplished.

Zodryn.4216:

Mahuyo.3079:

gee, nvr remember saying it was a good build, nvr said it should be run, nvr said anything about the utility, nvr said anything about it ability to tank, and nvr said anything about it dps, so why u are saying something like that totally confounds me.

If you have no utility, can’t tank, and have low dps, you will actually be a detriment to your group (miss enrage timer, die a lot requiring revive, and provide nothing to teammates). That’s why he responded that way. Take this build anywhere you like, but don’t take it to a raid.

That’s exactly how I picture an ArenaNet’s Thief raid build. No other use other than sharing venom.

yolo swaggins.2570:

What if they nerfed Withdraw 10% and then buffed it 10%? Like how Walmart raises their prices only to put them on “sale”.

It is called “rolled back” for that reason. It’s just a rolled back to the original price.

blarghhrrkblah.3412:

Zodryn.4216:

I feel like we could use a bit of a boost to give us more competitive condition DPS for raids. Here is what I’d like to see.

Note: we have other issues and things that need tweaking, but i’m only focusing on conditions for this topic.

Dagger Training:
Increase duration to 3s. All skills that involve daggers count as dagger attacks (Dagger Storm, Impairing Daggers, Distracting Daggers, Impaling Lotus).

Dancing Dagger:
Add 1 stack of torment for 3s.

Choking Gas:
Increase stack duration to 3s and field duration to 5s.

Venoms:
Decrease cooldown to 30s, remove cast time from Skelk and Basilisk Venom.

Thoughts?

I would agree with these if PvE and PvP balance weren’t tied together.

Edit: Main issue is with the venoms having too short of cooldowns.

I agree with blargrandomletters except for the venom; venom should be 30s CD without traiting Venom Aura. Remove Venom CDR from Venom Aura.

Weakening Charge is designed as a gap closer and gives access to your target’s back.

It is very useful against a stationary target like a boss mob.

Warriors don’t get bonuses from a flanking position, thus their skill animation differs.

However I do agree that it shouldn’t force a move and accessing the flank side of your target can be accomplished by using Vault. They can do exactly what you suggest with the Neo (Matrix reloaded) animation.

babazhook.6805:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

One possible buff is to increase the projectile radius to 600.

Then increased the condition damage bonus to 15%. Giving 10% is only balanced if we have a direct access to burning and since we don’t, 10% is just too low.

Lasty, it should apply Poison instead of Bleeding.

It should apply poison in addition to what currently in the skill OR should apply two stacks each bleed/torment along with the cripple.

Havoc mastery should be a 6/6 skill for both power/condi.

To be honest, anything as long as it is on par with Bound’s damage.

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Tbh I’d like it to affect those skills simply because they have dagger in the name and clearly use daggers. But this is ANet logic.

Yeah, wouldn’t that be nice. But given the we’re talking about ArenaNet, they would rather rename the skills to “Darts”.

IchigoHatake.5098:

I don’t know what kind of dh you have been facing, but the actual good ones don’t die to thieves.

That can’t be more wrong. I’m currently theorycrafting a D/D+P/P Poison Stacking build and I took it for a spin last night and downed 2 DH on a couple of unranked match.

It seems to me that you’re just building your Thief wrong.

The problem I’ve noticed on Thief’s power build is that there is no amulet that supports the build. Both Berserker and Marauder have stats that’s not the best fit for Thieves. The former has no vitality or toughness and the latter has too much precision. The stats distribution is out of whack.

The only solution is to build around condition damage. I theorycrafted a Bleed stacking build, but it’s not good enough. Then someone in this forum showed me the potential of poison damage, thus my current build.

But if you think an empty victory is worth abandoning the Thief profession, then I guess you picked the right profession to replace the Thief. In fact, any profession that has access to longbow and uses a longbow is a brain dead profession.

rennlc.7346:

They could make the daggers thrown by Lotus Training affected by Dagger Training.

Lotus training is not a dagger skill, unfortunately, so it won’t be affected. Because if that would be the case, I’d like to see Dagger Training to also affect Impairing Daggers, Distracting Daggers, and Dagger Storm.

This will never gonna happen. It is clear from the start that the intention was to nerf Withdraw with no compensation.

Besides, nobody uses it anymore ever since Channeled Vigor, right? They really have no reason to care. (sarc)

Just looking at the previous patch and comparing the amounts of bug fixes to all professions, you can really tell where they have their attention to. It’s really hard to believe that the Thief only had 2 lingering bugs since release.

I’m sure that making Disabling Shot to “always move you directly away from your target” requires more development time than simply fixing the healing numbers on Withdraw.

This is one of those sandwiches, making Withdraw look bad so that Channeled Vigor looks good. Which is happening to me and switched to CV because Withdraw is just a bad pick that when both are traited, there’s only 1s difference on CD but CV heals for way more. If they fix Withdraw, I’m definitely switching back to it.

I’m currently theory crafting using Trailblazers + Rune of Thorns and stacking Poisons using Impairing Daggers, Spider Venom, Needle Trap, plus Dagger Training and Potent Poison traits.

And yes, I’m actually looking into using Venom Aura (puke).

One possible buff is to increase the projectile radius to 600.

Then increased the condition damage bonus to 15%. Giving 10% is only balanced if we have a direct access to burning and since we don’t, 10% is just too low.

Lasty, it should apply Poison instead of Bleeding.

Sorry OP didn’t mean to hijack your thread.

Here’s a P/P build I used to run with.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQRAqa6an8lCdmiNOBeOBkmiFfCbLA8aOTd9gWQbauAmAjgA-TJBBwAAOJAbeCAlLDsc/BA

Impairing Daggers, Signet of Shadows, and Impact Strike are all used for defensive purposes. You can pop Assassin Signet for a burst damage.

The playstyle of this build is to always be mobile with 100% swiftness uptime and timing your dodges well. Also using your dodge to juke your targets.

I use blind as my cover before healing.

There is a major weakness to this build which is against weapons with at least 1200 range (longbow and rifles), so just watch out for those.

Hope that helps.

Maugetarr.6823:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Prior to Marauder, every PvP players using Berserker are dumb…lolz.

Well prior to marauder, zerker amulet was marauder stats.

Nah, the Prec stats on old Berserker was on spot at 600 (iirc). Marauder gives 1050 Prec which has too many wasted stats points. If they swap the values for Prec and Ferocity, making Prec 560 and Ferocity 1050, then that would be something worth taking.

It used to be that you don’t need a lot of points to get the right amount of crit damage, but ever since they added Ferocity…560 from amulet is too low. You need at least 900 to make it worth it.

It’s always been one hit per target for me regardless of how many targets are in the area (max 3 targets).

But you’re right, it’s not that great compared to Dash even with the +10% damage boost.

thunderfall.8095:

I never said she didn’t type words. I just said she was typing not speaking.

But you didn’t said anything. You have just pressed down on pieces of plastic to send electronic messages received throughout the world viewable to anyone with a computer, who then can “read” the message and transfer it to a coherent sentence.

Prior to Marauder, every PvP players using Berserker are dumb…lolz.

SlayerSixx.5763:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAoaVn8lCNPhdmCmOB8PhlWCzrMEpmDzlwW4LULAEiWAA-TpRAQBMc/BA8AA0XZADcCA4whAwDHBAA

Whenever I want to play condi, this is what I use. High mobility since thief’s primary role in CQ is to remain mobile and back cap. I suppose you could toss out a tree for SA for better sustain, but you don’t really see many condi specs in PvP. You play this similarly to the meta (or what used to be meta) D/P, with all of the usual burst power combos, but you supplement your damage with a ton of poison on auto, torment on interrupt (headshot, steal, basilisk venom), bleed on caltrops and dodge. You’ve got some sustain through nearly perma weakness.

I don’t use stealth nor venom so SA is out of the question. Other than the weapon of choice, our build’s goal is very similar.

I prefer the daredevil heal for more dodging and honestly think that replacing lotus training for any of the other two dodges would be far more optimal because lotus dodging in stealth actually unstealths you more often than I’d like :/.

Yeah, stealth has little value in PvP so I don’t take them. Lotus dodge is great due to the condition enhancement it comes with.

One major difference in our builds is that with P/P I have access to Bodyshot which not only applies Immob that can bait stun breaks, it also applies 5 stacks of vulnerability — meaning my condition damage is enhanced by 5% more damage per Bodyshot.

You could replace a imparting daggers for skale or spider venom for better condition bursting (BP>HS+steal+spider venom would equal around 5-6k power burst + all of the poison and torment ticking away for a few thousand as well).

Venom is bad a choice — very limited and too high CD.

Impairing daggers also applies Slow and a Immob every 20s.

My main issue with thieves running a build that isn’t x/SB is because of initiative restraints. You can’t do a burst with one set and then again on another set without waiting around 10 or so seconds to recover initiative.

That’s is my issue too, so I’ve decided that my build will focus on applying pressure and controling the fight instead. This way initiatives and cooldowns are easier to manage.

Besides, I’m not a big fan of SB.

SlayerSixx.5763:

How do you stack bleed efficiently :o? Also, wouldn’t P/D make more sense if you wanna run condi?

Very true, but the goal is not to overload with conditions but to control the fight and apply pressure by constantly applying conditions.

One thing I forgot to mention is that my off-set is D/D so stacking bleeds (and poison) is rather easy. With P/P, baiting stun breaks is easy — if Bodyshot fails, Headshot and Impairing dagger will force them to use it. I even saw them use it when they got hit by Lotus Training (dodge GM).

Since I’m using Rune of Kraits, Impact Strike is not just a finisher, but it also triggers the Rune applying more conditions. It works very well together since Impact Strike has a 300 dash range.

My bleed deals 100+ damage and Poison deals 160+ per second per stack, 5 stacks of each is enough to cause a panic. That a combined damage of 1300+ damage per second for 5 stacks each that lasts for 10+ seconds.

Impairing Daggers → Steal = 5 stacks of poison for 10+ seconds
then 2x DB for 6 stacks of Bleed for 10+ seconds → swap to P/P and control the fight.

I have a P/P condition build that never use Unload — ever. It simply uses Bodyshot and Headshot to control the fight while they are ticking away from stacks of bleed.

I used to believe that P/P is a power set, but no longer. Too much nerfs to the set that it not longer make sense as power based.

With the upcoming Thanksgiving holiday, the Devs are reserving any buffs to the Thief as presents for that day in the form of fixing tooltip bugs.

What more can we asked for when it’s something we always wanted?

RedSpectrum.1975:

Of course I’m embarrassed as to why I didn’t see the outcome before it happened. With the addition of Daredevil-of which I do have a lot of fun with- they are more and more pushing the thief from the type of fighter it was envisioned as, a stealthy high hitting duelist. It’s now an in-your-face duelist that relies on evasions to survive which, while useful, your opponent can still bait them and attack accordingly and due to power and defense creeps on other classes, they will hit you harder while you hit them softer, and we cannot normally trade hits. The original fighting style of the thief, the stealth fighter, has been secondarily nerfed since other styles from other classes have become stronger. Stealth was by far out best option for damage avoidance simply since we couldn’t be seen. Now that’s barely viable, DP thieves only stealth just to get out a backstab, not for its utility. Even when I DP in PvP, I use more Shadow Shots than Backstabs since I’ve seen it hit for 7k before. Might as well change the name from thief to martial artist at this point unless the next elite spec emphasizes, utilizes, and weaponizes stealth in ways only a thief can manage.

So many valid points. Backstab is no longer worth the cost even Vault beats it in damage potential since it’s also an AoE.

Domey.9804:

If you keep them zerk you end up with like 14k hp. Still not enough in my opinion ans you dont needs its precision because you already habe 50% chance.

For someone who have such an opinion is suggesting to take Marauder which has 1050 Prec vs Berserker which has 900 Prec.

And you still don’t know which stats you’re wasting?

Eisenwald.8562:

Woe is me! Where has my lady friend gone it’s okay slayer…I forgive you. We’ll get the next one.

It seems she prefer a different sandwich.

Tarkan.5609:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Not necessarily worth it. Marauder being a meta only means that there is no other worthy choice. IMO, Marauder is not for Thief simply because the distribution of stat points doesn’t benefit Thief at all.

What the Thief needs from an ammy is at least 1200 power, 560 Precision, and 900 Ferocity — if there are stat points left, they can go to either vitality or toughness.

Then I simply don’t agree with you.
I always try to hit 15k health, 12k just isn’t enough imo as any AoE will get your health down a lot.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

[zerker] it is still the best, only because the Thief’s damage is so pathetic.

Ehm I’m sorry but no matter how underpowered thief is, the damage of it isn’t bad. It’s (along with mobility and initiative = “CD freedom” kind of) probably the main reason for a lot of thief mains.

So an underpowered damage isn’t bad? What? That’s the very definition of bad.

Read again. I said even if Thief is underpowered, it’s damage isn’t.

Yeah, we’ll just have to disagree in here. Thief’s base damage is one of the reasons why it is underpowered and purposefully sacrificing Power and Ferocity for some Vitality – which is wasted in a team fight is a really bad trade.

[…] berserker’s will be one-shotted way easier or just get downed due to AoE.

Being one-shotted nor downed due to AoE never happened prior to Marauder. So I don’t know what you’re talking about here.

oh sorry, I didn’t know I talked to a Thief God here who can always dodge stealth bursts and avoid team fight AoE’s due to his superior overview of the battefield.

If you got burst from stealth, no amount of HP will save you.What have saved me from burst is something that is often overlooked – AoE blind.

The Thief can deal massive AoE damage that can put a lot of pressure to the opposition which is only possible if the Thief uses Berserker. A couple of well-timed Vaults will put the opposition into defensive.

In order to do that you first need to survive.

Um, no. Survival is not about absorbing damage rather avoiding them. Meaning don’t get lured, don’t overextend, and don’t get impatient.

If a lot of HP is what you’re aiming for, might as well forget about ’zerker and Marauder and go full condition damage where you can have 20k HP.

Domey.9804:

@Sir Vincent: Could you please show me where is said that i have “problems with being one shot”? I said I can survive one hit, zerker mostly can’t.

Not exactly what you said. You said;

I went full asc marauder. Now i Can survive 1 Hit…sometimes.

Implying that you used to have ‘zerker and being one shotted is a problem that’s why you went with Marauder.

What other things are you implying here?

Well I give up. Op was asking if its worth, my opinion is yes (and mathematically it is worth it).

Maybe, but it’s not worth it practically. Thief is not a tank nor a healer. Thief is a source of damage. Purposely gimping your damage to gain 6k of HP is never worth it.

Yours is the opposite, no problem with it.

I never discounted the usefulness of Marauder. It’s an ammy with wasted stats when used by a Thief. It’s that simple.

I was actually anticipating that the meat from the Thief burger was cut in half making it thinner instead of taken away and used one of the halfs to make the Daredevil burger — and the expansion introduces lettuces wraps. Then they take the original Thief burger recipe and added some legendary addon, like bacon, and sell it as the Revenant burger.

Ah, but oh well, still a good read.

Tarkan.5609:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

IMO, Marauder is not worth it even in PvP.

Marauder is the PvP Meta, not berserker.

Not necessarily worth it. Marauder being a meta only means that there is no other worthy choice. IMO, Marauder is not for Thief simply because the distribution of stat points doesn’t benefit Thief at all.

What the Thief needs from an ammy is at least 1200 power, 560 Precision, and 900 Ferocity — if there are stat points left, they can go to either vitality or toughness.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

[zerker] it is still the best, only because the Thief’s damage is so pathetic.

Ehm I’m sorry but no matter how underpowered thief is, the damage of it isn’t bad. It’s (along with mobility and initiative = “CD freedom” kind of) probably the main reason for a lot of thief mains.

So an underpowered damage isn’t bad? What? That’s the very definition of bad.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

You sacrifice a lot by going Marauder from ‘zerker…and for a Thief it is a bad trade-off. You’re losing 150 power and 20% crit damage traded for 6k more HP and 8% more crit chance. It’s a bad trade. […]

losing 150 power and 20% crit damage while gaining 600 vitality and 120 precision isn’t bad at all. Of course the lost stats make me sad but in the end, but marauder simply gives you more stats (that also are valuable) than berserker. berserker’s will be one-shotted way easier or just get downed due to AoE.

Being one-shotted nor downed due to AoE never happened prior to Marauder. So I don’t know what you’re talking about here.

also, due to our heals (channeled vigor / withdraw) having good hps, having a higher health pool isn’t wasted.

I don’t disagree with that and I see the value of Marauder. However, the stat points distribution is not tailored for Thief.

With the Rune of Daredevil, the extra Precision is wasted and the crits are weaker due to Marauder’s lower Power and Ferocity. Using Berserker + Rune of Daredevil, the damage potential of this combination is way greater than using Marauder.

As I’ve already mentioned, the appeal of Marauder is driven by the desire that Thief should dominate in 1v1. If you are a Thief using a Staff, fighting 1v1 is a wasted opportunity because a Staff Thief is more productive staying with a group fighting more opponents. The Thief can deal massive AoE damage that can put a lot of pressure to the opposition which is only possible if the Thief uses Berserker. A couple of well-timed Vaults will put the opposition into defensive.

Having higher health pool simply doesn’t get the job done — higher damage does.