Guild Wars 2

AikijinX.6258:

~ A Thief is a Predator, we should have clear and calm thoughts while still maintaining swift and fast movements when stalking or attacking our prey.

A predator also pick their fights — the most important thing is not taking out the prey, but to not get yourself killed.

Norn turns into Snow Leopards for a reason.

lol, seems that OP is bored too.

Well, I was bored and been running PvP just for the dailies using this build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAqa6alYmiNXey5E+5Ex2DgmTeqzgmvs/AXB-TwAA1CoIsRZjzGjNSbs2MEZJymgJBA

May not be the best, but it sure is fun to use.

It really comes down to how well you read your opponent regardless of your profession. It seems that the Thief you’re fighting against can read your every move very well.

Rune of Noble is really good for P/P. It benefits both of your auto-attacks and Unload. You just have to find ways to stack Might on you.

Condition builds are limited due to the max condition stacks, therefore you’ll perform badly in a large group settings.

While Power builds just keep getting better and better the larger your group becomes.

Clumsy.6257:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Having to micromanage pets is solid enough evidence to prove that the pet AI is clunky.

If you didn’t have to micromanage pets then half their uses would no longer be possible. Micromanaging allows considerable amounts of control over the pet. It just requires effort. If you really think about it not being able manage the pet to the extent that we currently can would make it clunky.

Managing pet’s uses and managing the pet themselves are completely different. Commanding your pet to attack, guard, or heel are acceptable management control, but making bad decisions on when to use their innate skill (i.e. Brutal Charge (canine)) demerits the AI.

If the AI is going to be bad at making those decision, then sure, allow us to micromanage those also. Leaving that decision to a clunky AI makes the pets less and less attractive.

In GW1, we don’t need pet as a Ranger, not sure why they are forcing that in GW2.

Anyway, this is off topic and that’s that.

Clumsy.6257:

Contrary to popular belief, ranger pet AI is in a fairly good spot. Granted it takes a considerable amount of micromanagement, a ranger’s pet is actually useful. My normal group has been running with a ranger for the past week or so and its worked out great. The original issue of pets dying too fast has basically been solved in regular dungeons by the current meta.

Having to micromanage pets is solid enough evidence to prove that the pet AI is clunky.

The Ranger profession in this game seems like not very well thought out of.

The main problem is that, most of the skill that should be defaulted to Rangers are given to Warrior — simply compare the Longbow Skills. Pin Down, given to Warrior, seriously? Rifle skills that are well suited for Thieves, seriously? But I digress.

Another problem with Ranger is the pet AI. Whether you choose to be Beastmaster or Spiritmancer, you’ll end up frustrated on how clunky the pet AIs are.

So given the problems with Rangers, you are left with one choice; Thief.

Although, there are some players who simply deny the problems with Ranger and see them as a challenge. So if you are one of these guys, roll a Ranger.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mysterious_coin

D/D, IMO, is the most difficult and most rewarding. Landing CnD takes a lot of time of practicing using the skill to get the timing correctly. Also requires that you instinctively knows how long your stealth will last to get in a position for backstab.

I sure hope that Anet maintain their stance of stopping the pigeon holing of Thieves.

The argument in this thread will pigeon hole Thieves into using stealth more for defense because all other endurance based defense trait has all been hit by the nerf bat.

The last patch proves that Anet don’t listen to people even if your name is Jumper — now I see that was a good thing.

The discussion in this thread makes it sound like GW1 never existed where every profession can use any weapon.

Sword+Shield Assassin? Sure.
Staff Warrior? Sure.
Hammer Ranger? Sure.
Dual-daggers Warrior? Fun, fun.

Nobody ever consider that some or many of the things inside her lair are meant to throw us off?

It seems that she knows that we’ll find her lair so she might have created things inside the lair to misdirect us.

Why else would she put a trap at the entrance if she’s confident that nobody will find her lair?

With this in mind, we cannot confidently assume that all things in her lair are telling us the truth.

IMO that big red painting on the ceiling is serving its purpose in misdirecting us so that we won’t focus what is on the ground.

Viking Jorun.5413:

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

Meh.. according to Anet’s philosophy, “if it ain’t broke, break it.”

To be honest, mobs dies rather fast at level 60ish and start getting tougher around 70ish — probably because by level 70+ you can then wear Exotic pieces.

So, technically any build will work until you get to level 70.

Here’s my suggestion for what ever weapon set you choose;

10/10/0/15/15

DA – take Mug (III)
CS – take Furious Retal (I)
Acro – take Power of Inertia (II)
Trick – take Uncatchable (III)

This build is well rounded that can support any weapon set you choose.

When you reach the point that you are more comfortable with a certain weapon set, you can then adjust your trait appropriately — but this build will support you while you’re trying to figure out your play style.

I’m currently running 25/0/0/15/30 only because I’m bored with the current content and to make things interesting with my Thief is to play P/P with this build. Interestingly enough, doing the Marrionette event with this build was fun.

The Molten Pick should have cost 1600 gems due to its unlimited use alone. Added the value of the spiffy animation and the account bound which would be roughly 400 gems, the pick has a total value of 2000 gems.

Why in the world would you trade that value for a 800 gems refund? Beats me.

Even if you don’t value the pick as much as I do, I’m sure it’s worth more than 800 gems — think about it.

Look at it this way. There’s only 2 builds that uses Infiltrator’s Strike compare to the number of builds uses Feline Grace. IMO, Feline Grace is a staple trait that most, if not all, builds must have.

P/D + SB Dire Condition Bunker <—- most annoying

I think the most stupid one is the one in Queensdale inside the bandit hideout…there’s nothing interesting to see there. :/

Iavra.8510:

Shatter mesmer. We are basically thieves with clones anyway ^^

+1

Unfortunately, you lose mobility compare to Thieves — but tanks are typically slow anyway, so Shatter Mez is the one you’re looking for.

Tweaking existing skills are no solution. Anet needs to create more skills. Compare to GW1, GW2 is really slow in creating new skills.

This is a nerf hidden under the pretense of a buff. This proposal will successfully become an Initiative drain given that condition builds are everywhere. 6 initiatives = 6s of down time = not acceptable.

If I have some negligible conditions on me, it will effectively lock my out of Infiltrator’s Return only because the cost of using it will leave me with no Initiatives left to do anything productive. If ever that Anet applied this, I will never use it — maybe even abandon Sword altogether.

Infiltrator’s Strike was meant to be a gap closer. The condition removal is just a bonus, thus this skill should not be used for that purpose.

What Anet needs to do is expand our skill library with more utilities and more weapon skills. There shouldn’t be one weapon set per weapon; we should be able to pick a default set from several weapon sets for D/D, for example.

Trying to tweak, nerf, buff, etc any of the existing skills will only bring this balancing act going around in circles.

Take a look at the new healing skills. They introduced new functionality by leaving the existing skills alone. This is the way to do this. More new skills.

AlecFair.1270:

I think the elite skill needs an animation for asura jumping inside their golems as well as a custom model golem or something to pilot for their elite skill as well.

You do realize that even a Norn can jump in there, right?

…or you can ask other people in game for information…they are part of the game too you know.

Simply smuggle the parts and built it on the other side.

Even with zero Might stack, this build looks great.

Just level another Guardian and let her pick whatever profession because you’re going to be her knight in shinning armor making sure she’s healed, protected, shielded, etc.

Just make sure you carry a shield at all times when playing with her. Also the Guardian Shout skills (“Hold the Line”, “Retreat!”) and Consecration skills (Purging Flames, Sanctuary) are awesome at carrying new players. Healing Breeze is a great group heal and you can also trait for Battle Presence to share your Virtue of Resolve (plus more healing due to 30pts in Honor).

The problem I have with the Charr leveling area is that mob’s level are scattered. So if you are following a path, you’ll suddenly die from a mob twice your level without even realizing it.

I guess this is your problem also. You might be fighting a mob that is higher level than you without knowing it.

Phadde.7362:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Yes.

But the Thief excel at all points.

Only the Ranger and Mesmer cannot cover all points, but all other professions can, most of the time even more effective than the Thief.

Thief wins it because of the “coolness” factor.

Totalkill.8014:

1. Deal heavy burst with ok constant damage.

Any profession has this capability.

2. Have decent survablty.

Any profession has this capability.

3. Have mobility (i.e. skills that help with getting around and not just dodging).

Any profession except Mesmer.

4. Be effective at both mid/long and melee (or have a good distance closer).

Any profession has this capability.

5. Be able to handle a surprise attack with ease (both single and aoe).

Any profession has this capability.

6. Be useful in a group.

Any profession has this capability.

7. Allow me time to pick battles.

Any profession except Ranger.

8. Look cool while doing the above.

Thief is the coolest profession — yes, I’m bias — they look cool even when dying.

Would it be fair to say that the steam creatures are specific and specialized for the sole purpose of her invasion plans?

The number of people going to be affected by this nerf is too miniscule for Anet to care. That’s the reality.

As for why they are doing this? They are obviously discouraging crit-builds that started back in Dec. 10 by nerfing the amount of Initiatives you get from crit-hits. Next is crit-damage and if that is not enough, we can assume that Power nerf is next in line.

They already made changes in the past that punished crit-builds by nerfing a lot of our survivability so that if you build ‘zerker, it’s a guarantee that you’ll shatter into million pieces — that was the nerfs to stealth, the only protection that ’zerkers can rely on.

However, time and time again ’zerker Thieves thumbs their nose at Anet so Anet is now putting away the nerf bat and taking out the nerf blaster cannon — boom! They might finally kill the build.

But once the crit-build is killed and every Thief are running condition damage build…they’ll start all over again. It will never end until the Thieves becomes Beggars.

Shu.6981:

It’s the medium ascended chest piece.

Yup! +1

Link: http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/gw2-ascended-armor-medium-norn-female.jpg

Hmm..according to Steam, I don’t even play GW2 at all.

Now how did that 1.9k hours happen? Weird.

Hadrian Vega.5463:

Sadly work and some dying components have kept me from getting to experiment further with SS. Sometime next week I should have a nice new rebuild in which I can apply some of what I have read in the thread. Hoping it can renew my enjoyment of the class.

To sum things up.

If you care about party contribution even with 1 stack of vulnerability, then take your Thief with SS. Based on this thread, you can probably pull off 12 stacks with 3 PWs (if you have 100% crit chance) that would last 6s (base) duration, 3s (base) against Unshakable mob.

But if you care about high stacks of vulnerability — higher than possible 12 stacks — and with longer duration, you have to look at some other professions like your Engi or an Ele.

Dahkeus.8243:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Dahkeus.8243:

P.s. If you’re going to compare a thief to another class, compare it to a class using a min/maxed dps build, not some condi duration stacking build. =P

That’s the imbalance. Elementalist, for example, doesn’t need to be a “condi duration stacking build.” They can stack 4 stacks of vulnerability with 15s duration — no runes, traits, nor sigils — every 2 seconds. :/

Who cares, lol. If you wanna cry about grass being greener on the other side of the profession balance, go make a complaint on the balance forums.

Obviously the OP does…

Hadrian Vega.5463:

I would just like to get some high vulnerability in dungeons so I could justify taking my thief over my engy.

..somehow that topic has been lost due to some high level of arrogance.

This thread is about whether it’s a good idea to take Sundering Strikes. Another profession’s ability to stack vuln better or worse than thieves has no impact on whether SS is better than other alternative traits.

/facepalm

Scarlet sounds like someone who had a good intention (saving Tyria) using bad method (burning it? or watch it burn?).

All these alliances are her way to test the Pact if they can really handle the dragons, because if they fail on stopping her, then she’s the last hope of Tyria. However if the Pact beat her, then she has fulfilled her purpose on testing the conviction and strength of the Pact.

These whole thing bears resemblance to Laxos trying to make that Fairy Tail guild stronger. cliche.

Dahkeus.8243:

P.s. If you’re going to compare a thief to another class, compare it to a class using a min/maxed dps build, not some condi duration stacking build. =P

That’s the imbalance. Elementalist, for example, doesn’t need to be a “condi duration stacking build.” They can stack 4 stacks of vulnerability with 15s duration — no runes, traits, nor sigils — every 2 seconds. :/

Combine Berserker and Valkyries to get those stats. Or you can go with all Berserker (high prec) and trait for Practice Tolerance (CS 10 – VI) to get your vitality up.

You forgot one thing;

- Starting a group as a Thief is a lonely venture. No one wants to join your group.

Interceptor.2653:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

I used to be able to maintain 10 stacks on my own when it was 10s (base) duration, 33% proc chance with 1s ICD. Such a massive DPS loss.

There are no prizes for “maintaining” stacks. It’s not like balancing a spinning plate on your forehead; Vulnerability only increases damage, it does nothing else. No achievements at stake.

Your party is suffering the whole time that you’re ramming up against the limits of the ICD. After three seconds of combat, you’re still the Little Engine that Could under the old system, with a couple of applications of Vulnerability. Under the new hotness, you’ve already got a few by this point with more on the way.

Time is money when you are DPS’ing.

I see what you’re saying, that in a 3/4 of a second using PW, you can have 4-5 stacks of vulnerability, while in the old version, 1 PW = 1 stack due to the ICD.

I am glad that the ICD is gone also but it would have been nice if the 10s duration stayed.

Dahkeus.8243:

Duration doesn’t matter unless you stop attacking, lol.

If you’re auto attacking your target, you will always have at least a few stacks of vuln up.

I agree that there will be some stack of vulnerability. It’s sad to see that SS can only stack 4-5 stacks and even worst on Unshakable mobs. Duration do matter though, because the longer you can keep a large stack, the more DPS.

Gwalchgwn.1659:

Sir vincent:
“…disproving the notion that you can capitalise on sub-25 Vulnerability with Mug and somehow get more damage than using SS.”
“If the group gets 25 stacks without you, don’t take SS and use Mug to capitalise on the maximised stacks.”

The first sentence means that mug will never be stronger than SS when the monster does NOT has 25 stacks of vulnerability. This is because even 1 stack of vulnerability (+1% incoming damage) will outdamage mug.

Thank you for the clarification, that made more sense to me. In that case, yes, you are right and the previous comment is right. I never dismiss the damage output that Vulnerability can provide.

If 4-5 stacks is all we can do, then I’d simply be sad about it seeing that other professions can stack vulnerability rather easy without relying on crits and procs. I used to be able to maintain 10 stacks on my own when it was 10s (base) duration, 33% proc chance with 1s ICD. Such a massive DPS loss.

The second sentence says: If the monster DOES have 25 stacks, SS will be useless because it can’t add an extra stack. In this case mug is better.

Thanks.

And since only 1% extra damage already outdamages mug, just AA the enemy will be able to maintain one stack. Heck it’s even easy to maintain 4 stacks with my high evade build.

Thanks, you explain these points better. Since that is the case, even moreso that it is a massive nerf because having it at 6s reduces the number of stacks by at least 3 stacks in comparison to the previous state, which is a 3% damage loss.

I digress.

Auesis.7301:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

That’s blindly assuming that no one else in the group can stack vulnerability.

If all I can maintain is 1-stack, it’s still more reasonable to take Mug because someone in the party will be out stacking me and the extra damage I get for using mug with their vulnerability stack over shadows the need for SS.

That’s the point, someone else will be doing it better and you’re better off taking advantage of it by choosing damage.

Um, he just said that 1 stack of Vulnerability will result in the net damage gain for the group surpassing Mug, therefore disproving the notion that you can capitalise on sub-25 Vulnerability with Mug and somehow get more damage than using SS. That simply isn’t true.

What are you talking about? Of course you can capitalize with Mug and get more damage in a 25 stack because there’s no damage benefit in SS — your target is already has 25 stacks.

How exactly can you capitalize 25 stacks of vulnerability using SS?

You’re getting yourself confused.

I don’t know if you’re being stubborn just to be annoying, but I don’t even get your point anymore. If the group gets 25 stacks without you, don’t take SS and use Mug to capitalise on the maximised stacks.

You’ve just contradicted your last sentence;

“…disproving the notion that you can capitalise on sub-25 Vulnerability with Mug and somehow get more damage than using SS.”

“If the group gets 25 stacks without you, don’t take SS and use Mug to capitalise on the maximised stacks.”

Make up your mind.

If the group doesn’t, take SS and end up with more group DPS contribution than Mug. It doesn’t matter if others are better at applying Vulnerability. The more the merrier UNTIL the cap is reached.

Really, I don’t think this is a difficult concept.

I’ll say again. IT DOES NOT MATTER WHO IS APPLYING VULNERABILITY, AND IT DOESN’T MATTER IF OTHERS ARE BETTER AT IT THAN YOU, AS LONG AS THE CAP IS REACHED.

Of course it matters who apply the vulnerability, that’s the core point here. The duration of SS’s vulnerability is not long enough to benefit your group. The premise of his post is based on false assumption that a Thief with SS can maintain the vulnerability stack for 30s — that’s why the net damage gain looks amazing.

Even using PW — it cost 5 init, that you get back in 1init/s in 5s.

With the base 12 init bar, that’s only 2 PW that have a 50% chance to stack vulnerability at 100% crit chance — then you get the down time while you wait for your initiative to get back up. 3s later, you can do another PW — then a 5 second wait.

PW has roughly 1 – 1.25s casting time (3/4s for the pistol whip + some undetermined time for the actual sword flurry = roughly 1.25s), plus the pre-cast and after cast delays makes the idea of maintaining a 6s vulnerability at 50% chance for 30s not even close to reality. You need to be really lucky to proc SS on the pistol whip or the first swing of the flurry just so you don’t get any gap.

As I’ve mentioned before, against an Unshakable mob, that’s only 3s duration. >.<’

The issue here is not Vulnerability or the net damage gain, it’s the duration that can make the theoretical (potential) net damage gain possible.

Yes it’s great with the 50% chance.
Yes it’s great without the ICD.
But why cut us off the knees by making it 6s from the previous 10s?

That’s blindly assuming that no one else in the group can stack vulnerability.

If all I can maintain is 1-stack, it’s still more reasonable to take Mug because someone in the party will be out stacking me and the extra damage I get for using mug with their vulnerability stack over shadows the need for SS.

That’s the point, someone else will be doing it better and you’re better off taking advantage of it by choosing damage.

Interceptor.2653:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

I guess it’s news to you that you don’t have to take a GM trait in the GM slot…oh wait, forgot the spoiler…

You guess wrong, then. But please continue this line of thought to its logical conclusion: what “party-friendly” trait are you slotting into GM Critical Strikes in place of Executioner or Hidden Killer?

I can’t wait to hear this.

Your logic and reason shuns the whole trait line — heck the whole Thief profession.

What you call a “party-friendly” trait is garbage compare to other profession’s (i.e Elementalist) ability to stack vulnerability — from their weapon skills. There’s no need for a Thief to build “party-friendly” because the best use of their skills and traits is to focus on dealing as much damage as possible while taking advantage of their party member’s stacking conditions.

But sure, ignore that fact and remain dishonest — Sundering Strike is good for the party after all, right? And to make it look even better is not to invite Ele or Eng to the party so that SS can shine.

Geiir.7603:

5. Black Powder - proposed by Maugetarr
Make black powder a dark combo field instead of smoke. Change the skill so that the projectile grants stealth if it connects (in the same manner of Rangers Longbow 3 skill).

This would help fix P/P which currently need a boost. It would also grant S/P stealth which would help that set a lot. Changing it to a dark combo field would give P/P access to life leech and whirl finishers would fire leeching bolts.

This is by far the best idea I’ve seen to fix the current issue with D/P and help fixing other weapon sets.

No thank you. I like how my Unload applies Blind through Black Powder. If I really want heal using P/P, I’d bring SoM.

-1

Interceptor.2653:

Which just goes to show that you don’t understand the logic at all. Sundering Strikes sits opposed to Mug in the Adept slot. What party-friendly Grandmaster trait in CS is a Thief missing out on if they take Executioner or HK?

THE SHOCKING ANSWER

hide spoiler

There isn’t one.

I guess it’s news to you that you don’t have to take a GM trait in the GM slot…oh wait, forgot the spoiler…

Ichishi.9613:

I keep more than enough stacks from CnD.
And trash dies too fast to bother.

And show me a place and people where you can dps boss for 30 secs straight with 6k dps.
Personal gain in this game weights much more unless you can specialize on party gain.

… while keeping 7 stacks of Vuln for 30s using PW considering that PW costs 5 init on use and the Thief only have 12 (base) init bar.

Elementalist can stack 4 stacks of AoE vulnerability every 3s that last for 15s (base) with 100% chance of application. They even have the potential of single-handedly maintain 25 stacks when traited for CD reduction and condition duration.

As a Thief, you’re better off traiting for Mug and capitalize with that large stack of vulnerability from your Ele friend.

It clearly shows that some Thief just lose sight on what the profession is all about.

And if you follow their logic, you shouldn’t take Executioner (or Hidden Killer) either because it’s such a “selfish” trait. Think of the party!

At this rate, SS will never get rebalanced.

Dahkeus.8243:

If you are in a situation where you are not prohibited by the stack cap, then this skill can potentially be a greater dps boost than taking Mug. If you want to argue this point, then please do so with some math. Otherwise, nit picking misinterpretations and fighting against obvious points that no one is making does nothing productive to this thread.

Like how you use “potentially be greater dps boost” instead of showing the math? You made that claim, you have to prove it.

What I stated that I’m against in this thread is the horrible duration, that your “potential” greater dps will never even happen because before you can even have the chance to capitalize on the stacks, it would be close to falling off, if not already.

This is the controversy here: Why bother making it 50% without ICD only to reduce the duration from 10s to 6s? — that the only weapon set being hailed to benefit from this is S/P?

You don’t like the trait and that’s fine. Feel free to grimace at it and give it ugly looks all you want, but if you’re going to argue against it, do so in a manner that acknowledges that traits can be swapped out at any time when out of combat. Treating it like some big investment that you can’t undo is just silly.

Sure you can swap the traits, but you have never given a good reason why? S/P without this trait (or leave it blank) can rip through trash mobs just fine.