Guild Wars 2

Laggo.8973:

It seems entirely selfish to me to ask developers to do double the work to create an encounter by first having to make a base fight that can be done by players spamming the 1 skill, and then develop new mechanics on top of that to challenge the players who the content was actually designed for – just so you can say your character was physically there instead of watching it on youtube. You can’t just increase the toughness and damage of the boss from one mode to the next and call it a day.

We didn’t ask them to do double the work. ¹ We’d prefer they just do right by the player base and not do this to begin with, but since they have here we are.

¹ – Assuming that is the case, which I have my doubts as no one has seen where the challenge lies. If the difficulty lies in the stats, damage, or timers; scaling these back would be trivial and succeed in diminishing that challenge.

BobbyStein.2315:

• I can’t talk about the “huge awesome mega reveals” other than to say that since the wings are essentially a multi-part story you will learn things along the way. Anything vital to the raid story will happen naturally and unobtrusively, but we’ll also have some optional stuff scattered around to discover. You’ll see elements of this in the beta that are carried through the entire first wing.

Thanks for the reply Bobby, but I think that it skirts the issue at hand. While you cannot comment on specifics for obvious reasons, I think the biggest concern is that the raid story isn’t going to be a disconnected side plot, but a vital story progression plot that provides information about the next big challenge the players of Tyria will face. Can you answer whether or not the story is one of progression and a prequel to the next big plot line, or if it is a side plot?

If it is the former I worry ¹ that I may not be able to experience the story as my character, or worse my character will be attributed to discovering things he really didn’t discover because he never made it through the raid (e.g., like it is now for characters who never did Season 1, but are presumed to have killed Scarlett). I don’t mind story being in story instances, dungeon instances, raid instances, or the open world (though I definitely prefer the latter). I do mind if it is gated though in a way that makes it so only a small fraction of the player base will witness it (even if I’m among that fraction). Raids don’t have to be difficult, it’s great that they can be and that option be available for those who want a challenge (myself included). But if they prove too challenging I’d like the option to get the lore and roleplaying experience without legendary loot.

¹ – I also worry it is is the latter as I absorb the lore wherever I can, but I can cope a little better in this situation ;-)

djsarcher.9263:

Fox.3469:

They already confirmed that raids would be side stories and that mordremoth is not in them.

When was this stated?

It wasn’t said that they’d be side stories, the opposite was said. Dulfy’s Twitch stream notes on raids say “huge awesome mega reveal[s]” will be found in the second wing released, so I’m not sure why people are so quick to think the story content will be minor. “Huge awesome mega reveal” doesn’t sound like something small. In the video itself the developers say that the story in the wings will bridge the gap by introducing the next challenge players will be facing. Bridging the gap to the next thing lurking in the shadows is not side stuff.

Lonami.2987:

However, that shouldn’t mean raids should be hardcore-only. Everyone should have the opportunity to experience them, specially if they’re part of the story.

Agreed. My biggest concern is experiencing the lore. After Dulfy’s notes said there would be big reveals in the raid wings I asked Bobby and he seemed surprised I thought there would be big story reveals. That’s promising, but I haven’t heard back.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I’m not happy necessarily, but definitely not surprised. I will reserve judgement until I can try the raids and see how much ‘side story’ is tied to them.

That’s my biggest concern after the Twitch panel on raiding said there would be a big story reveal in the second wing. It’s one thing to have challenging content. It’s another to put big story reveals into that content, preventing most of your player base from enjoying the story fully. Past MMOs have learned from this, and offer hard mode and normal modes as a result.

phys.7689:

Really seems like raids are at odds with gw2 design, and seems like gw2 is changing to accomodate raids rather than vice versa. Not looking forward to the effects on the game

They do, and I wouldn’t have minded them being so if they were just more rewarding for their challenge, but the fact that they are being used to bridge the gap between the end of heart of thorns and the next story arc is upsetting. If these raids are as elite as stated, as a casual player who enjoys the lore I’m afraid I’m going to miss out on story.

Most people are complaining about loot and rewards, but I could give a fig about that. I’d rather the events be fun, challenging, and have an effect on the world. Rewards should be there to supplement the MMO experience, never become the experience. I’ve posted similar thoughts years ago when you had a very similar event with Scarlet’s Invasion and much of that applies here. I will reformat it here with appropriate replacements.

Summary: I continue to be dismayed that the team that put together this promotional video is content releasing content that under utilizes the dynamic event system.

At request of Fabri the Suspicious, a suspected Order of Whispers member, Innkeeper Klement needs to retrieve dwarven artifacts from False Lake to prevent the local pirates from potentially unleashing trouble on the area. As players we dive into the lake to collect the artifacts guarded by skelk, sharks, and other dangers. Upon collecting them the Innkeeper thanks us and returns to the inn. Should you follow you’ll learn that one of the artifacts found is of Stone Summit make, an old summoning stone that should be dealt with. Unfortunately, the local pirates followed you and have other plans for the artifacts. Should they succeed, they use the artifact and get turned into incinerated husks and you as the players must defeat them to save the inn. Should the pirates fail, you are sent on an escort mission with the artifacts to Vanjir’s Stead. After successfully escorting the caravan the Asura from the priory who helped with the escort offers to aid is disposing of the summoning stone, as it is “risky business”. If you follow the asura you find out that to destroy the artifact we must kill the demon bound to it. The demon, Lord Ignis, is summoned and we as the players must defeat it to complete this chain of events successfully. Doing so spawns a new merchant.

This is an example of one of my favorite and memorable dynamic events in Guild Wars 2. It’s what I think dynamic events should be. Events that have a story, a chain of consequences that can lead an event to multiple outcomes, characters that exchange dialogue with each other to help provide exposition, characters that allow for players to interact with them to provide exposition should they have missed the story so far, changes that mean something to the world (different enemies appearing, new merchants, destroyed buildings… even a bear skin rug made me smile after helping a norn hunt a veteran arctodus). Other things I enjoy that this event doesn’t have are multiple branches that start in separate areas, but join for an epic conclusion (e.g., Ogre Wars, and now the Vinvewrath encounter). I also think events should be challenging, but that is not the point of this post.

I’d like to contrast these events with the events added in the latest release. The Mordrem Invasion does have story, but it’s largely disconnected from the invasion events, and when this event passes there will be nothing to indicate it ever happened. The invasion lacks purpose, as none is provided in zone during the event or prior to it for why the Mordrem are attacking. The only information provided is through the UI not the NPCs (except for one vendor). The Mordrem aren’t there to gather power or resources, to attack important objectives, or even to kill people (intentionally). In fact the zone acts as if they aren’t even there at all. In Dissea Plateau the charr still want you to help them shoot off fireworks for Meatoberfest despite the Mordrem appearing right outside their doorstep and the other outposts, mines, and farms carry on their day to day business despite all the horrible creatures attacking the local wildlife in their vicinity (accidentally of course). Without these elements the Mordrem Invasion comes off as meaningless… just evil for the sake of doing evil (while being highly inefficient about doing that evil). Without these elements the event lacks effect on the world both prior, during, and after the event is completed. Without these effects on the world the dynamic events in Guild Wars 2 lose what sets them above and beyond what other games offer in their versions of dynamic events, which are largely just portals opening with monsters coming through in random locations across the map. The portals must be sealed to stop the monsters. In this case the portals are plants, and the plants must be destroyed.

This is also not a problem with just this patch, but dynamic events in the prior living story releases as well. Flame and Frost had random portals appearing with dredge/flame legion that had to be sealed to stop their forces. Secret of Southsun had random champion instigators appearing without discernible reason connected to the event that had to be quelled to stop the uprisings. The Ancient Karka Queen attacks for no discernible reason, but at least summoning her is an involved, multi-step process. The Queen’s Pavillion had legendary bosses appearing with some story reason, but there was no interesting chain of events to spawn them and they are largely just loot pinatas. Dry Top continued this trend in Season 2, but thankfully many of the other events added in Season 2 had more thought and effort put into them. I’m particularly fond of The Silverwastes, though it isn’t without its problems. ¹

Having some dynamic events like these is fine as filler material, but I wouldn’t make it part of major releases or events that are supposed to introduce new players to what makes GW 2’s events great. Going forward before you introduce new dynamic events, whether it be huge invasion type content or small events like hunting an arctodus so Edmund can get a new rug; I think the content creators should ask themselves:

• Does this event and surrounding environment give enough story context for why the player is performing the activity?
• During the event, should a player arrive late; is there spoken or text dialogue that can catch a player up?
• Are the NPCs acting appropriate to the context of the tale you are telling with the dynamic event?
• Can the NPCs make meaningful impact on the world around them should players succeed/fail at the task at hand?
• Does the impact have lasting effects on the surrounding area or the zone at large so that the players feel like they did something meaningful?
• Can those effects be changed back to the previous state by player and NPC actions or are they on a timer? If the latter, try to go for the former.

The Mordrem invasion gets somethings right. It has multiple objectives that spread players out and also gets players to the old zones, but they still don’t do the activities there as the activities there are completely disconnected from the invasion. However, these successes were not made without removing much of what makes dynamic events above and beyond other game’s offerings. Basically, we traded getting new and interesting dynamic events like we had at release for the rifts from Rift.

¹ -The Vinewrath encounter is a bit unintuitive. It’s weird that the Pact so easily abandons their fortifications after you win it. It’d be nice if it had a bit more of a back and forth to it, like the Straights of Devastation meta event. It’s also jarring to be suddenly evicted from the vine wrath room after killing your champion.

lordkrall.7241:

Season 3 will start after HoT is released.

Where was season 3 announced?

I didn’t see them attacking wolves in Dissea. Meatoberfest was in full swing and the charr were still shooting fireworks, and the separatists trying to break them. Mordrem didn’t care about separatists, and separatists didn’t care about mordrem. This is operating like Scarlet’s Invasion… with disregard for the zone and what’s in it. The events don’t interact with each other, and if NPCs are attacking each other it is happenstance.

You’d think the charr would put a halt to Meatoberfest with a threat like the mordrem right outside their door, but alas we’ve been down this road before.

Sublimatio.6981:

it would be pretty stupid to not attack jormag next. he already is the biggest threat after mordremoth

Keep in mind that Mordremoth was not the biggest threat after Zhaitan was defeated. Events can happen that change the “obvious” choices of dragons to focus on. If ‘S’ is going to attack Lion’s Arch, as the artwork depicts, it could be the next story arc… and hopefully one that reworks underwater combat.

I have already unlocked my “specialization” as a guardian and core it is. I favor playing a melee, defense focused guardian so the trait line is the opposite of what I like. While the new changes to the virtues are tempting, and if I were to use a ranged weapon I would love the longbow ¹; I can’t justify going the trait line. It upsets my build too much and forces a trait that improves ranged damage. I’m hoping the next specialization is a “tanking” type spec meant for the challenging new content that would require making use of the soft-trinity (i.e., give guardians access to the revanant’s taunt mechanic).

¹ – This is merely visual preference. I like martial weapons over magical weapons.

lordkrall.7241:

No, I am talking about the fact that you don’t even need to own the episodes in order to actually do them.

Other players can taxi you in?

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Yeah, but didn’t they then remove WvW from map completion? It was part of one of the feature packs, I think.

I was not aware, been sometime since I’ve been active.

Erukk.1408:

It’s a nice idea, but I’m not sure how the devs would feel about their event possibly punishing players for the (in)actions of others.

I would say their response to the requests to remove WvW from world completion requirements suggests they don’t mind adding hurdles to world completion that require the successful performance of other players. You can’t (easily) get world completion in WvW unless you have a players on your server capable of capturing objectives and holding them.

Jaken.6801:

@Konig
Not essentialy.
Just don`t go serverbased, but region based.
While I doubt there will be many times the events fail, just think of multiple low population maps where the centaur run rampart.
These could effect the other generated maps in the same way, suddenly resulting in a difficulty spike.
However, it would happen less or maybe only at night and in the mornings.

I suppose they could keep a server region-based ratio of how the different fronts were performing in the events across the different instances of the zone created. That’s a bit of word salad, but the technology creating the world is a bit complex, let me expound…

For example, the North American region as a whole has had 25 copies of Hirathi Hinterlands created, of those created the centaurs have won 45 out of 60 events. Once the centaur victories over attempts reach some threshhold they could set flags to change the zone state across all copies created and that could be created (e.g., Harathi Hinterlands in invaded state, Gendarran Fields spawning elites, etc.). It would feel illogical to those people who have been doing really well in those regions in their own copies, only to see the centaurs suddenly get a huge chunk of Tyria under their control, but it could approximate the effect Konig and I are talking about.

A bit messy, but since we are not going back to individual, semi-persistent worlds, it would have to do if there are to be cross zone effects in any form.

Essentially I am talking about LW3 and how I would like it to invest its resources. In my opinion, part of the resource investment should go to updating the old world as well. Whether it is a lot of work for no gain would depend on how they do the update I imagine. The Tequatl update was part of LW 1, but disconnected from LW 1’s main plot, and that content is still populated today.

LW 3 should not exclusively focus on updating Maguuma jungle and bridging the gap to the next expansion (if there is one). Some side plots and updates to other story lines would be nice. What can I say, I love my Charr and would like them to get some attention on their half of the continent :-)

In the recent Massively article on raiding the last bullet point touched upon plans for updating the old content, and the answer was essentially there will not be updates except through the standard holiday events. This is disappointing as there are so many lore story lines hanging in many of the zones that it’d be unfortunate to leave them in that state for so long. There are many world bosses that could be given the “Tequatl” treatment and made a bit more challenging.

The dynamic event system is a great way to “update” the old zones, either by tacking on additional event chains or removing ones that are no longer relevant. Are the charr and humans really still stalled in peace talks or has there been some progress there with all the world shattering events? Have the humans made no progress in the centaur war? Have the Kodan fortified their position? How many arctodus skin rugs does Edmund really need? In my opinion it’d be nice if the Living World would periodically revisited the “old” zones and update their story and content.

Erukk.1408:

It’s a bit hard to pull off a true sense of desperation in MMOs since mechanically the PC can instantly teleport away from any sort of carnage to a carefree and tranquil area. That instantly ruins the threat that an area or atmosphere has since it takes away the true danger of the situation.

Prior to introducing megaservers they were capable of having cross zone effects in the separate realms/shards (e.g., Orr temples). I once suggested during the first CDI they did on the Living World that they should leverage this more and have more zone spanning effects, such that we as heroes of the realm have some duty to keeping it stable. For example, If we let Spark Fly Fen fall to the Risen threat there, those threats should bleed over into Bloodtide Coast (replace enemies and events there with more Risen, less pirates) and then eventually Lion’s Arch. It would be massive amounts of effort to be sure; but if our “safe zones” were no longer safe and our economy could actively be disrupted by ignoring the threats to the world, I’d think our actions would feel a great deal more meaningful.

DarksunG.9537:

because the game doesn’t have a true blocking mechanic where I can block whenever I want,

That’s because block absorbs the damage entirely, instead of absorption based on a block value. We have blocks on cooldown with focus 5 and mace 3. I’d like shield to have a block too (or have the ability to reskin a focus with a shield skin).

Mattmatt.4962:

Chrono trigger ?

Hopefully for a mesmer that gets main hand pistol or rifle.

ekarat.1085:

That’s language/lore mastery, not combat mastery. Similarly, you need hang-gliding mastery to reach certain regions and certain content.

That is true, but I doubt that will matter to people with the concerns you’re attempting to address. Does it really matter if a “special combat skill” required to defeat certain encounters is in the lore line, instead of the “combat mastery” line? I think what concerns some people is that such skills seem to exist, not what mastery line they happen to exist in.

Beast Sos.1457

When it comes to combat though, a fight shouldnt be impossible because you dont have the Mastery for it. The fight should be harder without it but not impossible.

Why is this so different from learning hang gliding? Let’s imagine this as if this were a real world. You are exploring unconquered terrain, your civilization has never been here before and your knowledge of the local flora and fauna is thin. Suddenly, a giant crab like creature leaps from the waters and attacks. You pull on your existing skills and they prove useless against the crab’s defenses. You retreat and start pulling on your brain not your brawn to address this new threat. You seek out the Asura for their research capabilities and bring them armor scraps from lesser crab creatures in the new environment. You ask the water dwelling creatures of the world about the crabs to aid the researchers. After enough time you have a solution, it’s an acidic spray to strip the armor off the crabs. You fight them again, and drive them back.

We’ve already done something like this before in Lost Shores. I think it’d be neat if we actually had to learn about our foes to defeat them. Learn their weaknesses, develop new weapons/skills to defeat them, etc. I agree though, essentially leveling to kill the new enemies is hardly new or inspiring for an MMO.

lordkrall.7241:

It is rather unlikely that the story parts will be locked behind Mastery advancements and as such his argument is very much valid.

Is it unlikely? I would argue that the norm for MMOs is to gate story development behind gear checks and level gains. That this is a new system doesn’t suddenly mean Arena Net won’t use it to gate dynamic events, dungeons, personal story steps, etc. behind the mastery system. It’d be a missed opportunity for them not to do so. One of the problems for MMO developers is players digesting their preferred content of choice and leaving the game, thus no longer investing in the game. Something needs to prolong the gap between the old content and the content currently being developed, and that’s where gating systems come in. As others pointed out levels are a gating system, and Arena Net has used them to gate personal story content before… why would they stop now with a new system of gating content?

I have nothing against gating systems per say,¹ just pointing out that I do not share your optimism confidence that this won’t be used to slow personal story consumption, dynamic event access, etc.

Edit: “Optimism” was too strong of a word as I do not mind personal story, zone completion, dynamic events, etc. being gated either. I’d just rather they be gated with a system that has some logical sense to it… like the weapon skill unlock system used to be. You used to unlock new weapon skills by “practicing” with the weapon in question. I see no reason why killing a beast in the wild should improve my skills with the Hylek language, for example . Wasted potential for sure.

¹ – I just find this one as uninspiring as leveling. See my post up thread.

Yet another system with wasted potential. Having general XP accumulation tied to unlocking masteries is setting the bar awfully low for this new progression system. Why not tie progression in a mastery to actual activities related to the mastery in question? ¹

Want to learn how to hang glide? Find a teacher and then practice. The more you hang glide the more skills unlock in hang gliding. Speed up progression by playing special mini-games with your hang glider (glide through rings, collect new parts to build a better glider, etc.)

Want to learn a new language? Interact with the civilization in question by doing events for them, talking to their NPCs, etc.

Want to learn how to master the new enemies? Take on their minions. Speed up the process through scavenger hunts for learning about their anatomy or researching their weaknesses.

¹ – Of course it’s more work, but it sounds like yet another rushed system that you’re adding to the game to fix a problem, rather than one that was well designed and crafted to be fun, while simultaneously fixing that problem.

TexZero.7910:

Show me where it said that, you cannot fight without the combat mastery please.

“As you keep progressing in the lore with the Itzel they’ll start giving you access to special combat abilities that will help you overcome obstacles that you absolutely could not defeat before.”

How Guild Wars 2’s Mastery System Could Change MMOs Forever

Zaklex.6308:

This is the preferable solution, currently you’re downscaled to what is essentially one lvl above the area’s level rating for a"new" player.

This is the easiest solution that doesn’t expend as much resources as others, I’m not so sure it is the preferable one.

I would prefer that they move to a model of using expansions as the “main” story driver. They will introduce new zones and complete narratives that move the single player, instanced plot along. The Living Story will become a vehicle that periodically updates the older content, progressing their stories while simultaneously removing the ease of the encounters.

I think it’s silly to ask why we should care about the old zones considering the vast amount of story content there that remains in stasis. The Humans still have skirmishes with centaurs in their lands, the Charr and Humans are still in peace delegations in the Fields of Ruins, etc. These old zones can have their stories updated and their content improved with the Living Story updates.

Shiren.9532:

Masteries wouldn’t be very meaningful if they became generic grinds.

Agreed, but some of your suggestions don’t gate content for very long. If it was merely making it to a location to get a new hang glider skill, we’d get to that new content within the hour instead of a couple of days.

When Mike O’Brien said vertical progression is the answer MMOs turn to to solve a problem, he did not say what that problem was. This is because the problem is a business problem, not a game play problem. The problem he was talking about was players digesting content rapidly, complaining there is nothing to do, leaving the game, and thus not paying the subscription fee (or making gem purchases) any longer. The Mastery System is Arena Net’s answer to this problem. Thus, I suspect that some of the masteries will involve significant amounts of grind.¹ I just hope that the ones that do are in the paths for things like precursors, and not in the paths required to explore the world and learn about its lore.

To be fair, I think this is a better answer to the problem than their previous attempt, which was to churn out low-quality, mini releases every two weeks (i.e., The Living Story).

¹ – By grind I mean an onerous activity that takes a long time to achieve. I do not mean Arena Net’s stated definition.

How did you pass on the obvious title for this thread?

On the Origin of (Tyria’s) Species

BrunoBRS.5178:

yeah, there is no way to confirm that i’m right yet, but from the several interviews i’ve read, most of them gave the impression that specific tasks gave specific rewards, rather than it being like the current WvW system, which is just a glorified paragon leveling system.

I hope you’re correct as the reveal gave the impression that its just spending points accrued through a variety of means, but that the points were just general not typed.

Titus.4285:

T
Why couldn’t Sylvari and Mordrem be TOTALLY different, yet both be serving the same Elder Dragon – and in totally different ways?

They could. Elder dragons could each have their own “creative moments”, and go about their business in their own way. For example, mouths and eyes of Zhaitan might be a unique type of minion that Zhaitan uses.

The main issue I guess is that all the previous minions we’ve seen shares the common factor of being extremely 2-dimensional. Is it really that bad that we’re now getting “minions” that’s a little more 3D?

That is part of it. Couple a slow build up to where we are now and with every example of a dragon minion having a particular set of features, and it isn’t surprising that we infer that all dragon minions have those properties. If they knew hey were going to take this long, I think they should have stuck a few more hints in the Sylvari personal stories, or when we were first introduced to Scarlet. S1 of the LS seemed to drag on forever without any juicy discoveries, something hinting at this would have been nice. Not enough that it’d ruin the destruction of the The Pact (if that was their plan all along).

Deli.1302:

Because the beings in the trailer had tendrils. Also there was a part in the trailer where it casts some sort of spell and enchanted armors were never spell casters if I remember correctly.

Something curious about that spot at 2:47. The being in question doesn’t appear to have tendrils any longer, or is using them to power the beam attack… it’s hard to discern which of those it is, but towards the end of the brief clip it no longer has the tendrils (if it did at all).

Iason Evan.3806:

One of the things I feel like they contradicted themselves with is when they said there isn’t going to be a new race because it doesn’t add to the story,

They actually said “gameplay” not “story”. I don’t think a new race would add significantly to gameplay, but it would give useful and entertaining story perspective if the race fit the context. For example, it’d be unfortunate if Kodan didn’t become playable in an expansion that focused on Jormag.

Windsagio.1340:

It seems like a major thrust of the lore discussions on the official forums is focused on how the common theory or, in many cases, Arenanets written elements are wrong.

“Common theory” does not necessarily mean well supported theory, or theory without holes. If the argument against the common theory is well sourced and not speculative, I see no problem with questioning it, and in fact hope this is done.

As for Arena Net’s written elements, I’m not sure what you’re referring to, so do you have an example. Please, paraphrase without calling out individuals.

Is this common, or is there a general reason for this?

It’s very common and human nature to try and convince others to your point of view. Some sociologists believe this to be a form of social status climbing (or lowering). By convincing others you are right, you elevate yourself in status among your peers while simultaneously lowering the status of those in the “wrong”.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

But, thankfully, it seems they cut off the silly real time and have stuck to merely yearly syncing.

Which still has its problems for the numerous unattended story lines they have going. I really want the Charr-Human peace delegations to show some progress at some point.

Koviko.3248:

Keep in mind that those statements are made by two characters unaware of Mordremoth’s influence on the Sylvari. .

The poster did not ask what Caithe’s fears were, they asked for Trahearne’s. I provided them.

Edit: However, Caithe has nearly identical dialogue

lordkrall.7241:

When did they say that though? I hear people refer to those statements all the time, but I have yet to actually see the actual statements.

They didn’t exactly state it, but it is inferred from the Angel McCoy interview:

“The connection between the Mouvelian calendar and our real-world calendar is a practical one.” ¹

Why would this be a practical decision? The only reason I can think of is that they want to align the events/seasons in Tyria with our own, such that Wintersday occurs when our winter holiday seasons do, despite that not being what Wintersday is about. Angel mentions in that same interview that the question that spurred this answer caused the lore team to discuss this… I imagine that it was a very short discussion given how absurd the consequences of it are.

¹ – http://esprits-dorr.fr/node/261

melonlycake.7348:

Trahearne says “his fears”. Why would he fear a second tree?

Addressed in the personal story step “Snuffing Out Embers” (my emphasis):

Trahearne: This is the place. The Knight of Embers will be waiting to meet the grand duchess. If she is allowed to tell Faolain the truth, the results will be disastrous.

Malyck: Why, Trahearne? What are you not telling us? This is my life! I deserve to know the truth!

Trahearne: You’re right, but yours is not the only life in danger. I’ll tell you the truth, and then, you must make a choice. My research has led me to believe that the Pale Tree is not a unique creature. Legends say that her seed is one of many, found in a cave. That cave has never been found, but it seems at least one of those other seeds was planted. It sprouted the tree which (sic.) bore you, Malyck.
Player character: If that’s true, there could be other cities of sylvari. Other Groves…

Trahearne: Groves untutored by Ventari’s tablet. Do those sylvari dream, I wonder? What inspires them?

Player character: If Faolain finds out, she won’t need the Grove. The court will burn the Pale Tree to the ground and find one they can more easily twist to nightmare.

Trahearne: Yes. If that happens the sylvari race will be no more. Tyria will fall into darkness.

Malyck: No! I won’t let that happen. If I must die to keep this secret, I will do so.

Trahearne: Then we have only one option. The Knight of Embers must die.

The above dialogue is not documented on the wiki. I found it here

How would I go about contacting someone to adding it or adding it myself in a way that doesn’t break the formatting?

Iason Evan.3806:

I think they will get off-hand sword and the specialization will be called, “Sentinel”.

Off-hand mace seems more likely. Guardian’s are depicted using maces/mauls in art and lore more frequently. I wouldn’t mind a good controlling off-hand weapon.

Terrahero.9358:

The word specialization does not by definition mean there are multiple options.

Oh for… seriously? It doesn’t mean that, but in it’s most common usage it entails it. In its most common usage, as documented by lexicographers, it is used to suggest an individual is choosing to pursue a specific skill or subject matter to gain expertise. It would cease to have any relevant usage in a world where there weren’t multiple skills one could learn within a field or career path. Constructs like, “Jane chose to specialize in surgical oncology.” Would not exist in a world where the field of medicine only included surgical oncology as its subject matter. We’d just say “Jane is studying medicine”, as that would be the only thing Jane could do (in the medical field). Arena Net is taking on a very unusual, in fact undocumented, usage of the term if they mean, “pursuing the only path available”.

Thankfully, they don’t really mean this. What they really mean is something like:

“We realize “specialization” entails having multiple options among many, but we haven’t the resources to provide you with those options now. In the meantime we’ve setup the framework for specializations to be implemented in the future. Come release of HoT you will only have one viable path. Sorry for misleading you by using a lucid word like “specialization” and getting your hopes up. In our defense, you should be used to that with us."

Well, they probably don’t mean the last part, but you raise a fair point. We should know Arena Net’s marketing team never means what they say by now.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The GW community is VERY fast to hop on bandwagons. It just so happens that one major one was right this time, so now everyone who goes against the bandwagon is suddenly “burned” by the past ones?

sigh I was merely making a jest that you were going against what is quickly being taken up as “the answer” for what we saw in the trailer and how quickly certain people turned to gloating over something like this with the Sylvari reveal. I thought by including the “Obey!”, a lore reference about jumping onto cult like worship of something, that it was an obvious jest on this situation. I know not what else to say about this, other than I apologize if this struck a sour note for you. I, and others, really do appreciate the knowledge and skepticism you bring to the Lore forum.

I hope this isn’t the case. If so, then truly Arena Net is unique in their approach. Most MMOs strive to ship completed features with their expansions, not stepping stones to new content. Things like epic and complete story lines , new progression systems, and complete continents/regions are the expectations of MMO expansion packs. Colin’s comments on the team not being large enough for a fourth game play mode is concerning, as I now have to wonder with the amount of stepping stones being considered expansion worthy features if Arena Net is large enough to produce an MMO expansion at all. Tentatively, I think some of the features look like worthy expansion features, like the Mastery system, but I’m not without my concerns on the other features, mostly due to lack of information on them. The news about there being only a single path of profession advancement ¹ certainly makes me wonder about the rest of these features.

¹ – “Specialization” is not the correct term if there is only one path.

Terrahero.9358:

Not surprising at all.

It is if you’ve played other RPGs with specialization systems, where they always have more than one specialization. The very word itself indicates that there is more than one thing to pursue.

I’m sorry to say this, but anyone who thought there would be more than one specialization per profession was simply feeding their own hype.

Or an English speaker with the rational expectation that “specialization” means choosing a focused path among multiple options. Or a person who has played RPGs like Dragon Age or The Old Republic; which have multiple specializations. Arena Net knows this is the expectation of such systems, which is why they claim the system will be completed later.

I tentatively agree that this expansion is light on content, but very few details have been revealed and there may be other updates on older systems that were not deemed “significantly new features” for the announcement. In particular I’m concerned about the following:

• If this expansion will ship with a complete story leading to resolution of the Mordremonth conflict.
• If there is going to be a large volume of explorable content on par with expansions in other MMOs.
• If dynamic events will continue this trend of being predictable, on timers, and having little to no effect on the world should players succeed or fail at them. I do not like the Silverwastes events that proceed to the next step, regardless of player success . No alternate outcomes exist.¹
• That there is only one specialization per profession. It looks like this is an incomplete system that is going to be pushed into the expansion to add another bullet point to the features list, rather than a fleshed out system offering players meaningful choices about how to play their character.
• The seeming unwillingness to introduce new playable races because it would require crafting extra race-specific story content to introduce the race to the world is concerning for an MMO whose largest competitor does this routinely. While I agree from a gameplay perspective a new race doesn’t add much, but from a story perspective it could be a significant add. At the moment the story isn’t going places I feel a new playable race would add valued perspective on the story, but should we eventually go after Primordious or Jormag it would be unfortunate if playable Tengu and Kodan were not added features.

¹ – This does not mean I do not like the event challenges or mechanics, just that the outcome of these events doesn’t matter to the world.

My hope, as it was from the start with the Living Story, is that the Living World would be used to update the content in the older zones and moving stories along that have laid dormant for years. For example, the Charr and Humans have been negotiating their treaties in Fields of Ruin for three years now. Surely there is some progress there. Or what about the Durmand Priory’s efforts in Dredgehaunt Cliffs, have they successfully routed the dredge and uncovered new artifacts or mini-dungeons to explore? So many dynamic event chains end unsatisfactorily, or in a way that promises future updates to the stories they tell. It’s be a shame to have them stuck in time forever.

Expansions can be for major story updates and moving the overall “main” narrative along. I’d like the Living Story to focus on progressing the sub-stories going on all around Tyria.

The Mists is the oldest thing in existence, the proto-reality that exists between the worlds, constituting the fabric of time and space that connects the multiverse together. ¹

The Mists have been known to project events of past, so I suspect future possibilities are not out of the question; including a future Rytlock imparting/unlocking the knowledge of Revenants to past warriors who enter the Mists. Of course, that means that Rytlock is no longer “the first” once some warrior from the past learns it… Time travel is a messy affair, but this is the best justification I can come up with that fits existing lore.

¹ – The Mists

That is very disappointing. It’s not much of a specialization if there is only one thing you can do.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Personally, I’m not so sure they’re mursaat. Why do I say this?

Hasn’t this hesitance to jump onto player speculation burned you before? Obey!

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I’m sorry, but “we come from the jungle dragon” kind of says they do, indeed, come from the jungle dragon, and in turn that they are indeed dragon minions.

You both have good points. Not everything that comes from the Elder Dragons is a minion, as the Elder Dragons can create other warped and perturbed structures. However, every acting organism, prior to the Sylvari, that comes from them appears to be a minion (i.e., controlled, magic consuming agent). It’s possible that that the Elder Dragons are more creative in what they can create, and Sylvari are one such creation that was bestowed other properties to suit the goals of Mordy. It is a curiosity why the other dragons haven’t made similar attempts, or there haven’t been examples of this prior to this reveal.

So full of holes, so done before:

Google

Tamias.7059:

if the Forgotten had freed the seeds from Mordremoth’s influence, why were they guarded by Mordrem and not simply destroyed?

We have only heard reports or stories of Ronan, and nothing first hand. He could have misinterpreted the Modrem intentions in this situation. They may not have been guarding the seeds to keep someone from harming them, but guarding them to prevent them from getting out, knowing that they could grow into trees that produce Sylvari that fight the elder dragons. Some other players have reported some magical barrier preventing Modrem from getting into the cave, so at best; all Modremoth could do is guard the seeds as a jail keeper, not a protector.

I have been away from the game for sometime, but now that the season is over I will probably play through it, so forgive me if this situation has changed.