Guild Wars 2

Kolly.9872:

ehtom.5047:

1. Could you have just dodged the trap? (Answer: Yes)
2. Could you have guessed where the traps are? (Answer: Yes)

This drives me back 2 years ago when thieves told:
1. Could you have just dodged the backstab? (Answer: Yes)

2. Could you have guessed where the thief is? (Answer: Yes)

Difference is backstab never hit so hard as DH traps

Ah, how the times have changed.

Basically an engineer.

You’re doing god’s work, daughter.

Daozang.6408:

My thief Entropea
She’s currently waiting in Lion’s Arch for the sPvP balancing :P

She’s going to die of old age.

I’m fine with this.

@straegen

They better not touch P/P skills. DD has given me perma stealth. If they want to change anything, remove bodyshot for a quick, low ini cost dash.

So the unblockable part was intended with heavy light proccing o.e….? Dear lord.

DOTA and LOL do it. I take this as a sign that anet is trying (emphasis on trying) to take their game seriously as they push for e-sports.

Vague Memory.2817:

NiloyBardhan.9170:

Vague Memory.2817:

Yes sure, anyone who doesn’t agree with you must be a troll. I’m going on my experiences in PvP, and all this nonsense that warrior is not viable is daft. I’m just not seeing that at all. A lot of warrs are upset that other classes can now compete with them, and are asking devs to buff them so they can be king again. What they are really asking for is an advantage over other classes like in the good ‘ol dayz. The real issue is the devs didn’t really give them a new game changing elite mechanic. But saying warrs are not viable is false.

Either you are trolling or being a complete ignorant. The state of warrior is the worst a class in Gw2 has ever been. Literally you can count on your fingers how many warriors you face on daily basis (excluding hot joins obviously) and being one of the most popular class, don’t you think more players would’ve played warrior if they were equal in abilities?

I’m guessing most warrs are playing DH now because it is better, rather than warr is unviable, so going from one easy to play powerful class to another that is even more so isn’t such a big jump. When DH get nerfs (if ever) I guarantee you they’ll be back like a biblical plague of locusts.

Friend, warriors cannot physically keep up with any class save for scrapper and scrapper is god. Gunflame + arc divider is a huuuuuge 15k+ almost instantly and has some super aoe, but landing the skills against perma stealth, perma block, perma sustain, perma evade, or nearly 40k+ HP reapers is what makes warrior unviable. Us thieves complain about our state, but none of us will ever go as far as to say we’re worse off than warriors.

In comparison, daredevil grants you:

- a super condi build that has millisecond openings between dodges and will eventually wear you down
- a buff to D/P with unhindered, meaning they aren’t obligated to take withdraw anymore (I personally love the new heal when traited)
- a new brawler with almost as many evade frames as the condi build, only they have 6k+ aoe bursts and their dodges can crit for almost 4k while still maintaining the super mobility thief is known for.

What does berserker give warriors?

More damage to their already unviable DPS builds that never needed a boost to damage and a STILL lackluster condi build. You can mention that there’s a trait that allows zerk mode to heal you for 5k if you take fatal damage, but how often would you be able to survive a target who could burst you so fast you couldn’t keep up?

Again, against a thief, you’ll quickly notice why DPS warrior never made the tPvP cut for long.

BP>HS+steal>back stab is the simplest combo and hits for over 10k HP. Assuming you’re running marauder and a power rune, you’re now sitting on a tidy 14k HP, no? Still enough to brawl with while letting your EPx2 protect you while healing signet ticks away, right? Wrong, because the thief is now gone again and is about to deal another 6-7k from stealth. Now you’re close to proccing your passive EP but you STILL can’t catch him. You eventually lose, regardless of the amount of block and invuln you’re carrying.

A reaper will laugh at your DPS while he tanks harder than you and tears you limb from limb with nearly perma chill (notice that you have no non-telegraphed ways of dealing damage). Because of the chill, the reaper dodging you super telegraphed attacks will essentially put you in such a ridiculously bad spot that you’ll never make it out alive. If he has any kind of poison on his build (which necros are wont to have), your signet bites the dust. You can mention defiant stance, but that heal is literal horse crap and the shout heal has too long a CD.

Vs guardsmers. I mean, chronomancers. Have you not seen the amount of blocks and evades they’ve got, coupled with the teleports and CC? No need for any kind of discussion here. Their damage is still alive and well, mind you.

Scrapper is d/d cele ele 2.0. No need for discussion here.

Dragon hunters will out DPS you at range and punish you with a fury if you come close to them. I don’t need to discuss DH since there always 3 or 4 QQ threads on the front page about them.

Revenants are the kitten children of the game. They’ve got bits of thief, bits of warrior, bits of bunker guardian, bits of necro and they get to mix and match as they please. Don’t tell me gunflame can hold a candle to UA or CoR, especially since hammer also bring projectile destruction on low CD.

Warrior never had issues dealing the damage. The issue was staying alive. On paper, double EP, double BS, pulsing stab on zerk mode, higher burst damage skills on suuuuper low CD and good mobility look nice, but in practice, they mean close to nothing.

Imagine captain America vs any hero who isn’t batman from the DC universe. He’d lose almost every time.

lighter.2708:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Rodzynald.5897:

From what I see very frequently, warriors can endure enough to force their enemies to pop some of their defensive utilities and then go bat-kitten crazy with rampage on flat ground where nobody can escape nor hide or just pop 8 seconds of endure pain and zerker stance for condi immunity, this is enough to (if played well) wipe even whole teams that are depleted in cooldowns.

It’s all a matter of who you fight against, honestly.

Can’t pressure a scrapper, he WANTS you in melee range.
Can’t pressure a reaper, he WANTS you in melee range.
Can’t pressure a dragon hunter, he WANTS you in melee range. If you run, enjoy his powerful true shots with 1200 range while he has access to a 1200 range teleport and a 600 range leap
Can’t pressure a chronomancer, he WANTS you in melee range.
Can’t pressure a daredevil, he’ll lolspam through your attacks and still WANTS you in melee range.
Can’t pressure a herald, he WANTS you in melee range.

Funny thing is, warrior’s saving grace was the melee pressure they could put out. Now every class and their grandmother wants you to be stuck to melee weapons (since rifle is lackluster as a range weapon and LB is more of a tool than a weapon) because they’ve got 101 ways to punish your super telegraphed melee attacks.

LOL exactly, reaper can just double range you with scepter and staff then you finally manage to get close with all those chills fear applied to you, which was already difficult before the patch, now they have reaper shroud with low CD stab and aoe melee attack that out damage you, hahaha, good joke.

Was talking about power reaper (since you see very few condi anythings at higher levels of play).

The fact that warrior is forced to walk everywhere is proof enough that their kit is lacking.

WE DONT SPEAK OF THE kitten CHILD HERE >:U.

Azukas.1426:

Such fail on everyone’s part.

1st they will nerf the SA line to utter uselessness. Then bring a new line in called ninjitsu that focuses purely on stealth.

The following elite spec after we’re all ninjas for a year will be Loki. That will be revealed months following the destruction of the Trickery line.

That’s how it’s going to go down so stop deluding yourselves.

For you guys to make your own.

Part truth, part lols.

Took this idea off of the general chat section and saw that most of the replies were PvE related. Figured that the sPvP community would have a much different…..view of the classes.

You guys need to make this for PvP now, please. This would be glorious.

So. Much. Green. Good lord man. Have you ever just had people instinctively run past you because you look like the green light on traffic lights?

pupi.2465:

How about this trait removing condis on a dodge while in combat instead of only when dodging an attack? This will make the trait more viable .

Or they could remove the ICD. Then people will stop face rolling skills so that they can nail the thief whenever the dodge ends and actually time their skills.

Thief is in a much better spot than warrior if you take the time to figure out the right build :P.

Low MMR is low.

Wooooooaaaaahhh necro.

online.1278:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Why PvP and ruin it for your team mates if you wanna mess around and talk? What’d the players do to deserve this?

idk, i will be doing this until anet buff warrior back, otherwise i will make every team who meets me lose every match when they meet me. haha.

You have a bone to pick with ANet, not the players. Why ruin it for the innocent players?

I’ve seen many warriors break 1.2mil damage. Also, its stronghold. The issues of excessive AoE aren’t as apparent there since you aren’t pigeonholed into a small circle.

Warriors never had issues killing or, in the very least, dealing damage. Its staying around long enough to kill your target that’s the problem.

Why PvP and ruin it for your team mates if you wanna mess around and talk? What’d the players do to deserve this?

Supreme.3164:

Is there even any more sense in this thread? Nothing showed so far with videos/screenshots ever proved that condi gameplay is something different from simple spamming where your only chance as player is to emulate the spamming but with cleanses.

-Now there are many, many ways to negate/reduce power damage but there is no way to reduce condition damage.

-You can weaken the damage, put long protection duration on you to reduce dmg, increase your toughness levels

What there is against condi damage? absolutely nothing other than cleanse spam, ofc some try hard condi spammer will come here and say that a couple of seconds of resistance on skill with an average CD of 40s , a handful of skills available to few professions, should be considered a counter

A 2s resistance every 35s+ is enough against condi spam? What people are ready to say in order to win..amazing.

Please stop the non sense about precision required for condi builds, a couple of traits require crits to apply a single additional condi..and of all sudden all condi builds require precision

I can go around with 10k HP if facing power builds, I can dodge powerful burst, weaken others, protect against other ones. Against condi build, your toughness means nothing, instead you must have:

-increased vitality
-all possible condi cleanse
-enough dmg to get through all the toughness, typical of most condi build

Such a huge amount of limitations on build diversity.

Most condi builds can apply 4-5 condis with the auto-attack alone and here they come telling you to dodge -_-, there is no set up with condi builds, no need to watch for enemy number of dodges, if he has aegis,protection, if you’re slowed/weakened or the enemy toughness…you can just pew pew off CD till you don’t overwhelm the enemy condi removal ability.

Condi build is a simplistic gameplay and widely chosen by new players for the increased sustain and efficiency, if there is something broken, that would be condi dmg.

There should be a stat that reduce incoming condi damage, a condition that reduce condi damage on the caster…something that force the condi user to pay attention for once other than unload : well-well-well-scepter 1-1-1-1-1-1-DS-fear-well-well-scepter 1-1-1-1-signet-DS-fear ect etc

Typical necro gameplay – Do you even know what boons the enemy has bro?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd7Sby_wqo4

PvP version for the try hard “defenders”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dyiUVGLXQE

Much skill, pew pew

This build is old.

I used to hate condis as well, but patch after patch just brought about so many cleansing options. My thief, for instance, enjoys several short and low CD bursts of condi cleanse which essentially turns condition classes into non-factors almost all of the time.

Necro can still transfer/cleanse like a beast.

Tempest is tempest :P.

Mesmer may be a little susceptible, but I’m not too sure condi is too big a threat for these guys.

Revenant with jalis, mallyx, or glint will thank you kindly for the conditions.

I’m sure druid can just out heal conditions.

Warrior might have an issue, but they have an issue everywhere.

DH just needs to slot CoP or run virtues with RF and they’ll be good for a bit in terms of condi cleanse.

Condis aren’t really that big of a deal nowadays, tbh. As for counter playing, you can dodge most condi bursts in the game the same way you’d dodge power. Condi hits you 3 times and stacks 3 bleed through his auto? That’s approx 600 tick for kitten Power builds going through a single auto hit chain, on average, 1k per swing and 3k with the whole thing IMMEDIATELY and can probably go through another chain before the bleed or what have you take their full course.

You can talk about how they’ve got defensive stats, but you’ll only find druids capable of bunkering and that’s not because of their toughness or vitality.

Honestly, the time for hating condis passed, man.

Morwath.9817:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Let’s be fair, mor. No SoloQer will make it top 10, elite spec or not.

I believe it could be possible by playing at horrible hours when people can’t find enough team mates to que with…

When I wanted to be top10 in Battleforge and I couldn’t beat DragonDampfi I always qued when he was offline, true story…

So you’d intentionally stay up and ruin whatever schedule you have for your daily responsibilities to hit that rank? I suppose you deserve it in that case :P.

Let’s be fair, mor. No SoloQer will make it top 10, elite spec or not.

Rodzynald.5897:

From what I see very frequently, warriors can endure enough to force their enemies to pop some of their defensive utilities and then go bat-kitten crazy with rampage on flat ground where nobody can escape nor hide or just pop 8 seconds of endure pain and zerker stance for condi immunity, this is enough to (if played well) wipe even whole teams that are depleted in cooldowns.

It’s all a matter of who you fight against, honestly.

Can’t pressure a scrapper, he WANTS you in melee range.
Can’t pressure a reaper, he WANTS you in melee range.
Can’t pressure a dragon hunter, he WANTS you in melee range. If you run, enjoy his powerful true shots with 1200 range while he has access to a 1200 range teleport and a 600 range leap
Can’t pressure a chronomancer, he WANTS you in melee range.
Can’t pressure a daredevil, he’ll lolspam through your attacks and still WANTS you in melee range.
Can’t pressure a herald, he WANTS you in melee range.

Funny thing is, warrior’s saving grace was the melee pressure they could put out. Now every class and their grandmother wants you to be stuck to melee weapons (since rifle is lackluster as a range weapon and LB is more of a tool than a weapon) because they’ve got 101 ways to punish your super telegraphed melee attacks.

Dristig.9678:

Leave Spirit Watch alone. It’s the closest to a CTF map we are going to get.

If its a CTF map, let it be a CTF map and build around that rather than mixing it in with conquest.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Saturn.6591:

I dunno; faced a premade earlier this evening/night with two Berserkers. For some reason, we got rekt badly. One time I died, I had around 27k burning and 25k bleeding shown in the summary. Didn’t surprise me, as I simply couldn’t keep up with cleansing.

They bring the DPS. The problem is they also die really fast. Its like playing a game of chicken in a car towards a cliff, where you might run into an opponent whose car can fly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7hZ9jKrwvo

This is amazing.

You cannot be serious.

They attempt a res, you down them….? Your build is deficient if you’re pure melee.

One stunbreak that triggers automatically. After that, its back to getting slapped.

I wouldn’t have trouble with a build like that on my thief. Imagine the fun reapers and chronos will have chain CCing you and force feeding you damage/condis.

Nefarius.9702:

SlayerSixx.5763:

As for non-boss related fights (anything not instanced, basically) is far too easy. I suppose S/P #3 spam would be the easiest burst to pull off without getting into more complicated mechanics.

What I simply would like to know is.. whilst wealding S/P.. for better damage output (no matter whether its a boss that requires to be stunned by #3), should I stick to the autoattack chain or to #3?

S/P 3 is one the strongest skills in the game, so spam that when you find the opening.

Issue is, even if he went zerk with DA/CS/DD with assassin’s signet, it still wouldn’t make sense for it to hit that high. Either WvWvW or he ran into a match naked.

Absconditus.6804:

Mallis.4295:

Yes these are the terrible players who you can win 1v2s against. If he just sits there and tries to res the other guy while you cleave and kill them no kitten you can win no one is fighting you.

Most people, decent players, will try to resurrect a downed ally. And even if they don’t, once one person is down, all you got to do is continue cleaving. They got to make a choice, to let their ally die from the cleaves while you damage them as well, or to try and get them up. Either way, you have the advantage, as their ally creates a distraction in most cases. Your subconsciously weighing the pros and cons of trying to get your ally back up, even if you aren’t directly focusing on it. This can result in you playing worse.

No, actually. Watch all of the top players playing. Going for an actual stomp is neeeeeevveeeeeeer happening in top tier matches unless its a 1v1, you won the fight, they’re on the point and you wanna cap. If you have a knock back, they usually knock you off to just let you bleed out. That’s all in a 1v1.

In a 1v2, its all cleave bby.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Honestly as someone who has played guard since launch and played Dh since beta I frankly feel they should just change traps into marks.

This would give them some trade offs.

1: They would no longer be invisible so you could no longer ambush people with them. (this alone would get rid of a ton of the QQ)

2: The time they stay on a given spot would be reduced (forget how long marks stay down, think it’s like 30s, where as traps last quite a bit longer allowing you to place them & wait for a CD to come back)

3: They (with the exception of fragments) would have some cast time _(say 1/2 second)

However

4: They would become ranged

5: The boons granted would be shared with nearby allies (possibly for reduced duration on allies)_

6: Their trigger & damage radius would go up to 240 along side all other marks/bombs.

And over all it would fit the guardian more thematically.

Right, guys. Let’s all just glaze over this amazing fix. It fits so well too, since they did say that DH is supposed to provide some sort of ranged support to allies.

I’d still suggest a procession of blades damage nerf along with increasing the cast time of maw.

Also, not to discredit any people bashing DH (it still is too painful for a class so easy), but I farmed every DH on P/P thief the other night for almost 3 games straight. Pressure them before they get on point and its all fuuuuuuun times man.

Shirlias.8104:

Maybe WvW stats.

Damage seems too high…

This.

^to do what exactly :P?

That’s why top tier players go for cleaving while focusing the other guy who’s standing. Stomps are purely for 1v1s (or when you have a safe stomp available).

I will agree that revenant downstate is ridiculous, even worse than pre patch downstate necro IMO.

Adamant.2543:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Step 1: block player
Step 2: …..
Step 3: profit

How insightful. I’ve never thought to do that in a game, ever. That clearly makes toxic players cease to exist for everyone, right?

Eurantien.4632:

Step 4: Get out of hotjoin.
Step 5: Queue unranked.

I am queuing unranked, way to make assumptions though.

People like you two are exactly part of the problem, just pop in and make snarky comments and act like it’s made you superior to the poor noob.

I tell you to the ignore the toxicity and you tell me I’m a troll? Totally mature. You have a problem with toxicity and you assume that there’s a more realistic solution aside from muting the toxic player?

Looks like you don’t really want a solution.

Step 1: block player
Step 2: …..
Step 3: profit

DiogoSilva.7089:

The game is pretty much forcing pvp players to sacrifice whatever little they have of a reward system for another system they may desire.

Don’t want it? Don’t get it. It isn’t mandatory for your fun, so ignore it. That’s like complaining that the new mercades costs too much when you’re a bird.

First, I’d like to mention that a majority of QQ is PvP related (and justified, mind you). Top thief PvPers have either re-rolled or lost heart.

As for non-boss related fights (anything not instanced, basically) is far too easy. I suppose S/P #3 spam would be the easiest burst to pull off without getting into more complicated mechanics.

Honestly, it isn’t a matter of being difficult to play. Everything and anything can be learned in due time (mechanically, warrior is the hardest). The issue is that thief, with a majority of their DPS sets being melee oriented, has to walk into what is currently the worst case of AoE bursts the game has ever seen. Reapers swinging left and right cleaving like madmen, drahonhunter traps, chronomancer wells, scrapper fields, the usual ele AoE + ridiculous party aura uptime, etc. All of this, combined with the reveal an engineer or revenant could possibly be throwing around makes team fighting impossible. One, naturally, would assume that thief is meant to hunt after 1v1 encounters, but the issue is that certain classes (a lot) are capable of holding their own 1v1 with a thief AND THEN SOME.

P/P+staff is an OK build at best. Thief, more than any other class, suffers from bringing to main weapons (if you can center a serious build around it, its a main weapon) on one build because of initiative restraints.

Take herald down a few hundred notches, please.

If you, for whatever reason, block their UA (which you have no excuse avoiding in a pure 1v1 setting), that’s all their burst. They’ve got access to approx 13.8k healing on demand across their two legends and two weapon sets which means very little with all the DPS flying around (1.5 unloads from my thief). Infuse light can be considered a block since you have no business attacking them once they pop this.

Honestly, I see these guys as more mobile medi guards with 0 condi cleanse, but medi guard is capable of more burst, a better ranged weapon, and slightly less telegraph to skills.

What ABOUT spirit watch? They’ve got 0 mobility holding the orb so nuke away.

Seems like they’re enjoying the condi evade spam DD. I wanna show this to every person who cries about the build to crush their hopes of the spec ever being nerfed lmao.

They SEE the venoms on your bar and know what you intend to do, unless you wanna stare at them for a few seconds and then leap at them randomly while they take their time downing you. They’ll instantly cleanse and then deal with you like they’d deal with any other evade spam condi thief. Problem is, unlike the other evade spam condi thieves, you have no stun breaks so….

1. The recovery on dodge = CD.

Pulmonary impact + steal and fist flurry together at the same time while interrupting a skill with steal is double impact + mug + air/fire proc = most likely a one shot for non warriors/necros (thanks to health pool, not cuz OP).

I’d recommend DA/Trick/DD:

Mug, panic strike and executioner (improv optional).

ToC, Bountiful theft, SoH

Weakening charge (although I like physical training because I actually enjoy the DD heal skill), impacting disruption and unhindered.

Rune of the revenant + marauder amulet and air/fire in your main hand.

As you can see, you’re susceptible to conditions quite a bit (2s of resistance on heal should alleviate that a tad bit). This isn’t a serious build (since fist flurry isn’t usable in higher tiers), but it is 10/10 crazy fun.