Guild Wars 2

Schwahrheit.4203:

shaolin.9716:

Use a shield on your second weapon set. Start the fight with your shield, fish for your opponent’s passive and reactive cooldowns. Block their burst, then switch and destroy them, never interrupt your burst because your opponent dissapeared. He will likely reappear in downed state. GS warriors require good thinking and extremely fast reaction time to play well. Granted mesmers do too much damage for their high escape and survivability, but let’s just hope it gets balanced in time, and meanwhile just don’t take it personal when you lose to one of them.

Yeah that’s true because Mesmer and Engi are both low skill cap classes.

Only a Thief would exclude the thief out of that sentence.

phaeris.7604:

All i see in this thread is thieves and mesmers defending what are clearly opd classes.

The ability of the thief to lay out huge damage isn’t a l2p issue. You all speak as if players have infinite dodges. The initiative regeneration of thieves is pretty much a non issue. They can spam their most powerful moves repeatedly and with the borken lag stealth mechanic they’re so difficult to target for the short time they arn’t in stealth they may as well be invisible the whole duration. It’s not a l2p, when i see l2p, it means the person saying it usually plays that class and they’re so desperately clinging onto the opdness because they’re well aware that on ever other class they’re less than mediocre.

Moa is just nonsense. It completely kills a fight, 10 seconds? of being able to do nothing but run away with no way to purge it?

Thiefs need to be rechecked and ASAP. 9 out of 10 builds you come up against end up in a non fight leaving you lying on the floor with a full endurance bar. Then the thief buzzez of using his escape tools.

MOA is a overhyped problem. When MOA’ed you keep all your mobility , all your speed yes you keep all your boons and you can still dodge. i survived more MOA’s then i have died to it i kid you not.

A pet necro being the exeption. If you main that build on a necro and complain about MOA then i agree with you . Outside of that i do absolutely not.

sorrow.2364:

milo.6942:

Asmodean.5820:

Reading several comments here I think most of you miss the point the op wants to make entirely. It is not about how good or how bad someone is or how he got into certain situations.

It is about how some skills work and what effects they have – regardless of the situation.

Whatever merit any of the points may have had is overshadowed by the inability to play properly. It’s not simply “those things are OP and that’s the end of the story”. It’s “There are strong abilities and playstyles that I need to be aware of and act properly against.” Many people seem to be taking OP’s defense with the mistaken idea that a team with bad builds and little experience should not get crushed by players that know how to play.

This is not the point of op. He is aware that he is not the best player of GW2, but focusing on his skill level without considering what the OP actually wanted to show is just stupid.
Everyone knows that everything shown in the video is counterable (except stealthstomp), but the point of unbalancing is the amount of skill required to counter something compared with the amount of skill required to afford that something.

For instance, look at the Mesmer fight. It is true that the op did not dodge anything, but look also at the Mesmer. He trew out just 2 random dodges, which evaded just the op’s autoattack. Then, popping out all the Phantasms and than Moa he won the battle which started with half health.

Than look at the Guardian battle. Have you seen him dodging just ONE, ONE time? I didn’t. Than, why the guardiang is supposed to last that long without even dodging, but only randomly spamming his skills? Just try to run a bunker with any other profession and see how you die fast without dodging and throwing skills randomly.

Look also at the last thief. How much skill does it take to use 3-4 skills in sequence? Nothing. Just bind those skills to 1-2-3-4, press them in order and win, if you are a pro thief you can also bind them to buttons far from each other (F1-5-7-1 for instance).
Than how much reflexes did the op required in order to not dying to that burst?

We are considering exactly what the OP was showing AND talking about. If what you say were to be true then why did he use these specific examples in his video in the first place?

When it came to the guardian he was not even complaining about skills he just simply stated the he should be able to kill a guardian bunker faster then the 10 seconds that was needed in the video. Like i said in my previous post, if taking down a guardian bunker takes to long for him at 10 seconds then how long should clothy or even a medium survive , 3 to 1 second ?

^
But then he complains on how a thief can kill him in 2 seconds <<< do you see the whine now ? lol

Or are you implying that the commentary was unrelated to the video he showed ? That would explain that at least a tiny bit but still would not make sense in any way.

He complains about MOA and specifically how long it takes yet he is a necro with DS which as i stated before has a multitude of benefits that MOA will never have and can last a lot longer.

I survive more MOA’s then i do fighting a necro with a full or 75% full life bar that comes out of it with a fully topped of HP bar.
DS > MOA every single time !

You try dodging a necro’s fear or lifedrain without running 5 miles out of range first when he is in DS , compared to that being MOA’s is a doozy. (I am not complaining about the necro here , i love playing the necro , im just pointing out the biased whining and crying coming from that video.)

So if as you say we got it all wrong and that he was merely pointing out unbalanced skills then why did he not even mention AND show the one OP skill he is most familiar with ?

I think you are putting words into it that have never been there tbh while dancing around the facts that are right there for everyone to see.

you cant say ooohw noo he meant it like thiiis and not like thaaat thats BS. He was very specific and he commented exactly on what he had shown.

The only thing valid was the thief backstab but we didnt really need a video for that did we?

All he did was cry and moan about the skills and builds he himself has issue with , THIS is why he excluded any skill of his own class shown in that video. If it was like you are trying to portrait it was then he would have mentioned a lot more including the necro in particular.

And that is basically what this video is nerf all classes i have trouble with NOW!11 and he doesnt even know how to play so what sort of authority is he on any level ,

Dino.4062:

And if so are you still playing?

I quit 3 weeks ago, my expectations must have been too high for release. I honestly expected ladders on release. Without ranking there is no competitiveness for me.

It had always been announced for post release.

Teknobug.3782:

Hm I don’t remember DS working while in Moa, does it?

Your point being ?

shaolin.9716:

OP has valid points regardless of his skills. It shouldn’t take 3 people to down a bunker, 1 person should be able to down a bunker, just slowly. Healing is too strong. On the other hand, uncounterable thief opening damage is also too high. The range to which you can be a bunker or glass cannon needs to be reduced to avoid ridiculous fights that don’t involve any player skill.

Thats what i said about the thief didnt i , backstab needs a nerf. ! Classes that can oneshot have no place in the game imo.

But about the bunker you say 1 person needs to be able to bring it down but slowly , they took him down with 2 people in about 10 seconds (and he complains that it takes too long lol) so what is the problem there? i have taken bunkers down on all my toons ,slowly and solo on occasion , its totaly possible, so !?

Guardian healing to strong ? Cut his healing down to 50% then. Your class doesnt have a skill like that ? then it is not your role to do so.

A bunker is supposed to be hard to take down , that is its role but this guy is only complaining about the classes that HE has trouble with (according to him but i did not see it he just wants a easy ride by the looks of it) Im not sure if he or you has ever seen a necro build to keep a point but i rather fight the guardian ,he would be easier to take down tbh (this is also shown in his vid).

If the whiner in the video is going to whine about wanting to take down a bunker in 5 seconds instead of 10 and about MOA when he has DS himself which allows him to do dgm,fear and top up his HP then he is simply a hypocrite.

Funny how he did not show the use of DS once in his video.

P.S i dont even have a guardian myself so im not being biased here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1q8_702Cok

It’s just a little something I put together, showing what some of the classes do (Guardian, Thief, and Mesmer) and how they affect a tPvP match.

Looking at that video all that i see is WHINE.

A necro complaining about other classes OP skills….

just for the record i play 6 toons and all of them about equally in pvp exept for my warrior and i play the thief to a lesser extend since like the warrior i find it simply to easy to rake in kills with these 2 classes.

I have taken down guardians solo with any of these classes. He complains that he had a hard time taking down a guaridna with 3 people, in the vid there were 3 people hitting him for 2 seconds then it was 2 people for the rest of the fight and the guard went down in 10 seconds flat.

A bunker build takes longer to down …..you dont say ? A necro bunker build has the same effect -_-
A necro loaded up with a ton of toughness and any defense stat available and the second lifebar which allows you to regen you main life bar is different how ?

So why is this guy complaining about taking to long to down that guard with 2 …not 3 people in that vid since it only took 10 seconds?

He complains about MOA and conveniently did not show his necro use DS at any point in that video. I love playing my necro but complaining about a 10 second MOA as a necro with DS availlable is a good for a LOL or 2.

On my necro i can go into DS for a longer time,do dmg,Fear And regen my HP to full health. While the other players have taken dmg from me i come out restored but he complains about …moa….

He complains about the thief going into stealth while down and that he cant target him , smart move on that thiefs part but other classes have AOE’s that deal with that , his doesnt , tough luck.

Backstab, yes it needs a nerf, i dont think there should be 1 class that is able to one shot anyone.

Funny enough he does not complain when the thief backstabs him in the video but only becomes visible after he already died to the backstab …..???….

In short this video was nothing but a but..but my class is perfectly fine , nerf the rest videos and nothing is being said that “we all thought”.

Anyone that wants to earn better gear in PvP just want to be able to stomp over people without actually needing any skill to do so, There re already to many MMO’s availlable for that.

I like the idea a lot that whenever i am beaten that i know it was not because the other guy simply had better gear then me or whenever i win that it was just me and not my gear.

That being said i do not think it is a bad idea that we can earn certain skins that are unique in PvP that we can wear in PvE that sort of show our efforts.

madatom.5218:

i dont understand the “whack-a-mole” analogy

The OP recently read it in a update Anet made where they stated they are not rushing with nerfs and buffs to avoid the "whack-a-mole " balancing. So now the OP made a thread using those words to imply that Anet does exactly this.

It is a troll thread.

A warrior that is crying that his iwin skill does not always lands = priceless

There is no reverse engineering of any code going on. If that were true and this quick we would have a somewhat working emulator by now. What they do is extract all data from the database with a program written to be compatible with the databases format and compression/encryption.

Most likely those sites are still using a pre-release set.

Vaerah.4907:

Smackjack.5071:

What was so earth shattering that you just need to brush your teeth right then and there??

Dagger / dagger elementalist water second attack involves you breathing ice in the face of people. You really want to do it with a fresh and awesome breath!

That makes for a very sound reason my friend.

Olieboll.7851:

Was in a tpvp today and was brushing my teeth and before 1 min was over, i was reported called names, u name it, apperantly im a bot cuz im afk for 40 secs of the 5 min wait time.

So the dude that was raging, ’’causepain’’ found out i wasnt a bot after a min and stil he was raging and telling he was gonna report me and start a forum and what not.

Any of u also have problems with nerdy raging people who can’t wait 1 min til everyone is ready?

So why start a tournament and THEN decide to brush your teeth :/

What was so earth shattering that you just need to brush your teeth right then and there??

Dabu.1258:

Gelrod, if you like that balance, i invite you to make a Holder Engineer and try to kill a Thief/Necro/Mesmer

And so you complain of blance just because a specific build does not hold up to specific classes, gj.

I’m not sure where to start. Sounds like you heard the term whack-a-mole and wanted to use it.

Thats the first thing i thought when i saw that.

xBeefy.4073:

Give us one big Mists server so we can properly search for a team. Many of us don’t have guilds or friends that play anymore, and would like to PUG a tournament. However, in its current state, there are anywhere from 20-40 people in the mists lobby at any time.

This is simply not enough people…

Merge all servers into one mists lobby, so we can have a GW1 type lobby system where the entire population sits in one spot looking for groups.

Right now, the mists on Fort Aspenwood are a ghost town 95% of the day.

Yes, I realize there will be overflows. There’s nothing wrong with this. Everyone can wait in a queue to get to the main server. No problem.

Thoughts on this?

I dont see a problem with allowing cross server match ups as long as it would be a option. But 20 people in the mist ? Im not sure which server you are on but i can spvp 24/7 on mine,its loaded.

ladague.1456:

I agree with Krosslite. I don’t have a desire to do PvP myself. It’s just not something in which I am into. It’s not that I find it hard or simple, it’s just that, to me, it’s just not fun.

That’s the whole point of a game, isn’t it? To have fun. Why should I be forced into someone else’s idea of having fun.

then dont, like marnick already stated and it is true, you dont even have to PvP when you enter WvWvW. You can just wonder around and avoid contested camps and other
points and go for the puzzles and locations with mobs etc and find poi’s.

I even remember running around the WvWvW maps when it had extremely long que’s and i had been running around looking around for a hour and not run into a single enemy.

It is not like the game forces you to take over keeps and camp or dolyaks to do your pve completion. So what is next ? i dont like the danger of running into other players ?

man up.

Benek.9870:

Yesterday I did a lot of testing with the 3 drivers mentioned above and it really doesnt matter from my point of view what setting ingame I set or what driver is installed, the problem still exists even if I set everything to low the FPS drops from 120 to 80 when Vsync is off and I try to do a blast finisher inside water field

Smackjack can you tell me what is the setting to change for this havok thing (its in nvidia panel right ?)

Also the CPU should not be the problem I have I7 2600k and 16G of RAM. I am able to run the game very good IMHO but I cannot stand these FPS drops when using skills. TBH even when setting all to low these occurs. I start to thing one the patches did this. When I get home today will try latest patch maybe this’ll help.

Havok is middleware software that is licensed and it is not limited or specific to any videocard like nvidias physyx is. There are 2 options in them gfx menu that affect this. I am not in game right now but 1 is a pulldown wich mentions changing ingame animation details and the other is a tickbox on the lower left which mentions lowring detail in cloth animations.

That being said the FPS you are getting on your videocard seems perfectly fine and is about all you can expect from a 560ti.

No, lowering gfx settings will not increase workload on the cpu. At bes it would help you identify where the cpu might be a bottleneck.

In fact certain physics effects (gw2 uses havok as far as i know) that can be disabled in the gfx options menu rely purely on cpu performance (which is the reason why it works on both nvidia and AMD GPU’s) lowering gfx settings will lower your cpu load before anything else.

What does your claim that said person know little about the subject he is talking about (according to you) have to do with anything concerning your own topic at hand?

It is simple , do not spam the same mssg over and over again with only 10 seconds interval. If you are spamming a LFG mssg this often that it triggers the block script then you are overdoing it anyway and end up being just as annoying as any random gold seller, i actually block people who do this and i do so without a word. I am sure i am not the only one.

No each class does not have a “bring the class” benefit. None of those things are “bring the class” skills because none of them allow one single class to accomplish a specific task when no other class can come close.

This whole argument fell into the water where i pointed out how a thief can repair the treb in a similar time frame as a mesmer.

Yeah sure it is easy to just say uh huh huh lawl durrr it takes a thief at least twentyy!!1 seconds longer to do that but that is all you have ..nothing really.

As per your example
A mesmer does not have to walk all the way up to the treb to place the first portal it can place it at the base

ok

By the time a mesmer even reaches that spot a thief is just one corner away of picking up the kit , teleport skill and all , and no CD’s and fast ini regen and a 25% passive speed boost.

By the time the mesmer even arives the thief is already able to look up at the treb passing by the mesmers portal.

When the mesmer finally goes through his portal he still has to walk around (unless you want to place the portal in the middle of the entry point at the trebs base for everyone to see) and up around to the treb.

I have a thief , i have a mesmer and 4 other toons.

My bet is on the thief actually arriving there faster but lets humor you and say it actually arives 3 seconds later,it makes the mes not the unique “bring the class” class for treb repairs.

So again no, a mesmer is not unique in this role.

That will be all ,lol.

Portal means that certainly tasks can ONLY be done by mesmers. There is no other similar skill. The Guardian gandalf skill comes closest.

LOL so now you start defining what is similar or not just to fit your argument?

Teleporting is teleporting the difference in the extend or range does not change this fact. To fill the role of a mesmer fetching a repair kit can and is being fullfilled by the thief just as much and just as easy. A thief does not require more time to achieve this using its skills just for this purpose any more then a mesmer is (by the time a mesmer has laid down its first portal a thief will almost be at the kit already) and also no more vulnerable then a mesmer in achieving this ,less would be the more likely answer to
this last point.

So again following the logic of your first post (not the one that contradicts yourself) no , the mesmer does not have a exclusive and uniquely effective role in this. Which as a reminder was what this was all about.

So when i point out the class specific extremes in the game a.k.a “bring the class” effects you come up with :

None of those are “bring the class” skills. Many classes have high burst potential, not just thieves. Many classes have great support potential, not just guardians. Many classes have great ability to soak damage, not just necros.

and when i point it out to you yet again you come up with :

Your comparison is like saying everyone can DPS so even if one class did 3x as much DPS as every other class that wouldn’t be “bring the class.”

I hate to tell you this but that was the exact comparison that YOU made ,not me in response to my example and to which you yourself are arguing against at this moment.

I pointed out that each class has a “bring the class” benefit. Something that you for some reason simply refuse to accept and single out to just a mesmer and its single teleport skill for god knows what reason.

You might want to make up your own mind first before attempting to argue this any further.

Jeez, I thought the GW2 community were supposed to be “friendly”.

But sure, I’m sorry Smackjack.
I’m sorry for trying to enjoy this game with my beginner family and I’m sorry for not enjoying GW2’s PvP.
And I’m sorry for not being able to beat the dungeons (even though I clearly stated that I probably could do it, and that the issue were that my first time computer gaming friends had a very hard time doing the dungeons, not me… see the difference?)

I guess we should just give up and move to another game! \o/

It is your ridiculous mentality that you portrait that i had issue with i dont do X because i dont get a reward so what is the point which is why i had the question why you were gaming at all in there.

Cancer.9065:

Well there is a difference between casual and completely new to the genre.

The dungeons are hard at first and like everything the more you do them the easier they get.

For a tip I would go to the mists and practice on your teamwork. When is good to rez? who rezzes? Who trows up boons? when? who can remove conditions? who can distract mobs? who burst damages? Who calls targets? which targets are prioritized? (hint in AC its the monks) Does this boss has a special mechanic?. Remember every character can do any role, but you still need to decide who does what.

The game is geared for casual gamers because you don’t need to play 10 hours a day just to keep up with a gear treadmill. You can play this game once a week and have the same chance as everyone else because the “end game items” are cosmetic only but this does not mean your team should not prepare for the ride.

You know like driving a long distance… its pretty easy, yet you pick your music, snacks and plan route, etc. Knowing who does what really helps.

And finally get the odds in you favor. you can carry 2 buffs with you 1 from cooking (recommend the one that gives you extra damage to ghosts for AC) and 1 from potions suggest one that ups toughness to help out. BTW are all using appropriated level armor? if its 5 below your current level then you need to upgrade same with weapons.

Part of the fun is actually playing like a team… it makes it feel more epic to overcome the challenge knowing you had a specific role in you ride.

I dont usually bother myself with this sort of thing much but i must say that i find your choice of username quite disgusting.

Haven’t played much PvP… because, well to be honest… there seems to be no reason to play it, no real rewards or anything

okay so because you dont get a cookie for playing pvp there absolutley no reason to play that and PvE dungeons are just not done becasue they are to hard for you but of course since you are in it for the cookies you want then to make it easy for you.

Why did you play games again you say ?

btw me and my gf pugged up with a pug made in the middle of the night in 5 minutes by means of asking and inviting in chat. None of us had been in that particular dungeon before ,granted it wasnt easy at anytime but we cleared it in about a hour nonetheless.

I wonder what you will do when you reach the end of your personal story , zaitan has your biggest cookie. Maybe they should take that cookie out of the game that way you can say like with PvP that you have no reason to play it because of no cookie, in the meantime you can pretend that there is no cookie.

Solved.

You know what they should do , they should add some sort of semi legendary reward in there. Once you comple all pve maps you get the choice of the semi right there and then or continue and go for the real legendary.

..Of course one would have to deal with the permanent pink ribbon that is attached to this semi legendary weapon.

It would make no sense to give people the same reward that refuse to enter parts of the game because of ‘reasons’.

Yukishiro.8792:

Smackjack.5071:

Yukishiro.8792:

No, other classes and builds do not have this potential. Portal is unique. That is the problem with it: it is a bring the class skill. GW2 isn’t supposed to be a bring the class game. If you want to play that sort of game fine but everything the devs have said supports GW2 not being that kind of game.

Portal doesn’t fit with the way this game is (supposedly) designed.

. 1 shotting thiefs
.regenerate like no one else guards and Reflect damage 100% of the time
. extra life bar necro
.beserking warrior
.Portaling mesmer

yeah only the mesmer has 1 unique skill

None of those are “bring the class” skills. Many classes have high burst potential, not just thieves. Many classes have great support potential, not just guardians. Many classes have great ability to soak damage, not just necros. I don’t know what you’re even getting at with “berserking warrior,” that’s just lol.

Thank you for proving my point for me: there are no other “Bring the Class” skills like Mesmer portal. Although if you knew what you were talking about a little more you would have mentioned one of the few skills that arguably come close to being “bring the class” besides Portal, in particular the guardian “you shall not pass” skill on staff5.

Going by that logic then thiefs and guardians have teleport skills too.

You may have noticed that i was abit more specific then your vague notions. But if you want to do it like that then

Which class other then a thief 1 shots?
Which class other then a guardian has a 100%up passive reflect?
Which class other then a necro has a second lifebar

Yet somehow ,regardless of that you want 1 teleport removed or given to every class as long as it equals the field for you because you claim that a mesmer is the only one with a very effective and unique skill.

So how about guardian and thief teleports? Going by the logic in your previous post they posses this skill too. Less effective maybe but you just pointed out that that does not seem to matter.

xlion.3065:

To me it’s just another example of not being well thought out. And the lack of documentation just proves it. I would really like to love this game, but I feel insulted by Anet’s quallity.

I would suggest you get of your o so very very high horse before anything.
There maybe inconsistencies here and there and sometimes things do not seem logical at all to us but usually there is a legitimate reason for it that we do not know about.

Dabu.1258:

The problem is easy, i cant make a build with MY OWN stats, i need to put a necklace that Anet want

example: i want Vit + Heal + Tough. I cant do that, because there is not exist.
and please, dont say me to use the “Celestial Amulet”

what’s wrong with you ANet? Is you who play sPvP?

^wtf lol !
You mean what the hell is wrong with YOU. xD

^ this post is exactly why those amulets and runes are setup by A-net and not the player.

thiefs needs that stealth… they are way too squishy without it, but mesmers need some fix with moa and survivability

Ele’s and mesmers are just as squishy.

Fildydarie.1496:

I’m only a casual PvPer, but I have to ask… so what?

To explain:

• Both teams can do this.
• While a trebuchet can be devastating in the hands of a skilled user, kill that user if you have to. Kill them over and over.
• If you know they are going to teleport back with the kit, wait for them to return, then see previous point.
• A person at a trebuchet might kill people but they don’t capture nodes or otherwise win the game.

What is it that I am not seeing?

No you got it pretty clear tbh.

hackks.3687:

Smackjack.5071:

The teleport tactic is being overstated. I tried it out on my mesmer (1 of 6 toons) you still have to walk up to the broken treb to lay down a port (logic , usually if you lost the treb you are ressing and if not then you werent there) then walk all the way over to the other side and pick up the kit and lay down then second port to actually teleport.

The advantage is only there if you manage to travel to the treb and from the treb to the kit. usually this will not go uninterrupted and when it works it would have saved some time but not as much as you would think.

It has a advantage (when it works) but nothing to the extend that is being complained about : The treb can be taken down in a tenth of that time

Again …when it works

sounds like you’re doing it all wrong then (or deliberately understating).

When I play my mesmer in Khylo repairing treb is ridiculously fast and easy. As soon as more than one person shows up to kill it you simply drop down the side, start your portal, and head for repair kit. If you run into anyone on the way you either Decoy or chuck some AI at them and they’ll be preoccupied long enough for you to grab repair kit, take portal back and repair.

I do this every time I play Khylo on my Mesmer, and I can’t come close to that kind of efficiency on any other class.

Mesmer is definitely a must have class for Khylo and, according to Anet’s intended design/balance, that’s a no-no.

yes of course …you just race along oponents and rop a few phatasms and illusions while you run past and they will attack those , that works !! sure… of course

perfect plan right there , works great in forum pvp i admit and maybe with quite a bit of luck on new players.

Obviously a load of crock but hey ..

Yukishiro.8792:

No, other classes and builds do not have this potential. Portal is unique. That is the problem with it: it is a bring the class skill. GW2 isn’t supposed to be a bring the class game. If you want to play that sort of game fine but everything the devs have said supports GW2 not being that kind of game.

Portal doesn’t fit with the way this game is (supposedly) designed.

. 1 shotting thiefs
.regenerate like no one else guards and Reflect damage 100% of the time
. extra life bar necro
.beserking warrior
.Portaling mesmer

yeah only the mesmer has 1 unique skill

I play a thief. I use this ability, and I’m sure it annoys people. But you have an incomplete understanding of the mechanics. It isn’t a terribly cheap skill to use. Even with an expanded initiative pool and initiative regeneration, a thief can use it at most 5 times in a row. With stealthing I can increase it to about seven times.

Is the skill powerful? Yes. A skill that allows you that much evade is powerful. But once I’m out of initiative, I’m dead in the water (quite literally) because all theif skills except #1 use initiative.

Are you for real ?
You described the problem perfectly though.

You can only use the skill 5 to 7 times in a row so it is not a cheap skill ?
And when you are out of initiative you are dead in the water , yeah duuuh when everyone elses CD’s are all on CD they face the same problem there dude so what do you expect …to have skills that you can use after you used your initiative , how on earth can you talk like that, it almost sounds like this is your first MMO and you never played anything else other then the thief.

What would this accomplish? Spamming these moves isn’t a particularly effective method of fighting (and will in fact get you killed more often than not). Really, what is the point of nerfing bad play?

That is just a blanket statement that most thief’s use in this discussion. Quite peculiar that, ingame 9 out of 10 times all i see is spamming thiefs in open matches and tournies yes. 9 out of 10 in these forums also claim that only bad thiefs do that and only bad players die to it.

Funny how that works.

Fact of the matter is that spamming is what makes thiefs win with the exeption of a condition build maybe and that is where the issue lies. Any other class will at the end of a fight have been forced to use most if not all of their skills wisely and it is a big difference from being able to rely on just one button.

As for the one shot skill , there simply should not be one on any class, period.

BAM!

I am an Elementalist and even I find the ruins a waste of time. Sure, I can go there and unload some pretty impressive damage, especially with my Whirlpool, but then what? I knock out a few people, I kill a bunch of sharks, but I won’t be capping the point. It takes a minute to finish someone off for 5 Glory (instead of 15 on land). Capping the point might get me 15 points, but the second I leave, someone takes it back. Defending ruins is a waste of time, outside of a Tournament.

Just run back and forth between beach and docks and you will get 5x more Glory than you would if you spend any time fighting at ruins.

Make the ruins a small island outside of the water and everything would be better.

People who say that refuse to go into the water because they cant deal with it or say that iti spointless to cap the point are the ones that make you lose that match. I have been in matches , a lot even where my entire team just rushed the dock or the beach giving your oponent team 1 extra free point throughout the match.

Something people dont understand about it is that once you have it it is very easy to defend even if 3 people come in to take it from you. All it takes is 1 person to guard it to be able to hold it for a meaningfull time , sometimes even the entire match.

I have ended up top player so many times just doing that but whenever i noticed that they just gave up on it i would leave my post and fight on the other 2 points keeping a eye on the ruins whenever i could.

When it comes to underwater combat i dunno i had some issue with it in the beginning and didnt like it much but the opposite is true now that i have gotten to grips with it.

BigTeeHunter.4913:

^^ Smackjack.

If you are bunkering a point against 3 people (2 players + 1 treb) you shouldn’t expect to hold it for too long, wherein underlies a big problem that currently bunker builds (guardian especially) are too powerful, and as such when you get rooted and killed by a treb shot, you moan that 3 people killed you.

If you cannot count to 3, then dodge, then I’m not sure how far you are going to get in pvp. As a bunker guard myself, I would rather fight two good players and a treb, rather than 3 good players. Energy symbol on weapon swap and you can dodge indefinitely, two stun breakers incase they cc me on treb land, and an elite skill that lets me eat one treb without taking damage.

Treb is fine, and to be honest, almost overated. Only useful against a good team if you have good cooridination and timing.

If you noticed i did not complain about the treb once or on how long i can hold up against 2 or 3 players. What i was pointing out was the *theory pvp’ing8 going on. People always jump into these threads and throw optimal builds and actions around saying SEE , ITS EASY……Real situations always disagree with their solutions.

when it comes to the treb itself i do agree that the dmg next to the knockback is a bit much . Other then that i think it makes the map interesting to play , imo it is the best map out there even.

the worse part of this is they are trying to promote this as an eSport. Ya… good luck with that when players get booted for “being idle” because they are stuck at the loading screen.

Well tbh the esport content has not been applied yet and was always stated to be released post release most likely for this very reason. Bugs can creep up in any titel in any patch.

It is annoying for sure and it is true that i , you and others are dissapointed that no hotfix is ready yet but at the same time i feel that these sort of arguments are also not fair.

milo.6942:

How can everyone be having all these problems with downed state and dieing to downed people? I don’t ever have these problems.

i have no clue tbh.

tarcheg.4872:

@Smackjack:
Reading a thread does not belong to one of your strongest traits I guess?!
The 23 hits were from illusionary unload which were taken during the fight. And the rogue + downed mesmer aa killed the OP in the next 5s – do you really think you, you can kill a rogue (who goes invis after attacking) with your downed auto attack in that time??
edit: down state is not supposed to be as strong as it is atm and needs to be nerfed across the board.

Maybe it is your reading skills that are lacking.

Especially for you, again :

As i pointed out you could have teleported right at the very moment you went down just like everybody else ,this is not hard to do. It takes seconds before you re-appear and then seconds to get to you and you can cast your own.

maybe he would have still died but the fact remains that he did nothing like this even though the option was available to him. It would hav bought him crucial time in which another team mate would have finished off his opponent or started healing him.

The only difference being here that he himself did not have any illusions up this time, though luck! because if he had and utilized said skills he prob would have won it,maybe not who knows.

It is a situational example ,nothing systematic and someone is crying “unfair” nothing more . I sometimes get lucky like that in a downed state on any of my toons but that is it, lucky.

Now tell me again how we die more after downing someone then we do after being downed ourselves.

Hopeless.8195:

It is often faster to kill a treb without killing the mesmer defending it.

How is that supossed to be a excuse?

Your choice but it is obvious that you know what you are leaving behind. Leaving the mesmer standing there alive and well after killing the treb is your choice. The consequence is then yours, you cannot claim ignorance on the matter.

You cannot expect the mesmer to stand there and go owh well i wil refrain from using my skills because it was obvious that that guy was to busy to bother with me even though he is well aware of what i am capable off

The teleport tactic is being overstated. I tried it out on my mesmer (1 of 6 toons) you still have to walk up to the broken treb to lay down a port (logic , usually if you lost the treb you are ressing and if not then you werent there) then walk all the way over to the other side and pick up the kit and lay down then second port to actually teleport.

The advantage is only there if you manage to travel to the treb and from the treb to the kit. usually this will not go uninterrupted and when it works it would have saved some time but not as much as you would think.

It has a advantage (when it works) but nothing to the extend that is being complained about : The treb can be taken down in a tenth of that time

Again …when it works

tarcheg.4872:

They should tone down every down state to ele niveau so fighting when alive decides who wins and not whoever goes first into a too strong down state.

Bu then everyone would be whining at how useless their downstate is :*)

tOss.9024:

Med.6150:

So last night I was doing random sPvP on my Mesmer and ran into another Mesmer at some point. It was a pretty clean 1v1 and I was lucky enough to put him in downed state with ~7k HPs left.

I ran up to him to finish him, though obviously he ported away the first time. At this point I was still doing fine, except for the fact that I was slowed and he had ported to a location that would take me a couple of seconds to reach.

I got there with reasonably high health, when suddenly I died to his Illusionary Rogue just before the stomping animation was about to go through.

Thinking about this part, I am sure there are those who will say “fair game, downed state is supposed to work like that” and those who think “losing 7k+ HPs while the other guy is downed is over the top” and I am fine with accepting both as valid opinions.

At this point, however, people probably don’t realize it, I had already lost this battle, simply because I downed the guy first. His Illusionary Rogue was out (downed state #3), while mine obviously wasn’t as I had just entered downed state. This is the part that I doubt anybody could be claiming to be intended.

How can I lose a fight, because I down somebody first. Why would he ever have an advantage over me, because of that. That’s simply irrational:

http://www.imagebanana.com/view/4l3qicld/Downedaintsound.png

Well, you didn’t have to stomp him. Stomping carries with it the risk of taking more damage. You could have just attacked him and killed the rogue when he spawned.( you knew it was coming) also, since you did down him first, if you would have done damage you would have an advantage. You weren’t dead when the rogue hit you, you were just down. You could have teleported away from the rogue and killed him, granting you the revive.
Sure, downed state has some problems( eles being the most prominent) but this was entirely your fault and had nothing to do with improper balance.

^simply this.

He could have teleported away just like the guy he downed did and the smokebomb would not have prevented him from doing so as he clearly received 23 hits after the smoke bomb.

Downed states need tweaking but it is not as bad as the OP is making it out to be.

I expected a hotfix yesterday.When i did not see a patch on the patcher and noticed the slow loading on the char selection screen i logged out since i did not feel like raging at loading screens during tournies

Shukran.4851:

the sad thing is 90% of thief haters only play 8v8…..
..but ofc 8v8 is srs bsns… go on with hate

How come i see tons of thieves in tournies then ?

Seeing 3 thief’s regularly in tourny groups is nothing new. They are quite popular in tournies, not so surprising tbh.

anet isnt just gonna scrap initiative cuz you think its broken. and the only spec for thieves that one shots is not the standard for thieves, everyone knows, even most thieves, that that spec needs addressing

at most you will see adjustments to the ini system but i wouldnt hold my breath on it ever leaving.

Im not advocating for the initiative system to be removed but i do point to it for being the reason of the balancing issues, for obvious reasons. Like i said it is the only class to have a completely different mechanic to the rest. That is just asking for balance issues.

Frosty and Frosty Law Firm.4981:

You seem to be forgetting that Thieves die in about 3 shots when exposed almost regardless of build. Not to mention how their downed state is pretty much delaying the inevitable and has no way to help contribute to a battle like most other classes. (Ex. Ranger being able to shockwave enemies and bleed people when downed) Once a thief is down, he’s probably done.

You should try a ele !
All those drawbacks you mentioned but none of the thiefs boons and 10 times worse downstate.

And what do you mean with once a thief is downed he is probably done ? THAT GOES FOR EVERYONE *facepalm.
The fact that you are trying to throw that out there as a excuse says it all.

You think everyone else has superOPmagic ressurection skills that only the tief class doesnt? …shows how much you know.

BTW my non glass canon thief does not die in 3 hits but i do kill in 3 hits and less and still have gtfo of dodge skills.

How about those loading times ?

Even when booting up the game it takes a lot longer to get on the char select screen i noticed. It slowly loads in the portraits of each character instead of the usual insta load. Im on a ssd an i noticed a considerable change in loading speed.

Loading into a match takes so very long now and respawning now takes as long as it used to take to load a entirely fresh match.

During a tourny when it bugs out and we have to kill the procces and restart the game it now takes 3 times as much time to get back into the match.