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(edited by Softspoken.2410)
1) The reason venoms have problems is because of the importance of stun breakers and condi removal. As long as venoms have no way to do either the game is indirectly forcing you to use other skills/weapons. Maybe it shouldn’t be exactly be like above, but venoms need some way to deal with it or Thieves are still going to be forced into certain skills/builds. You will always need 1 or 2 skills that are not venoms otherwise.
As for Skale and Ice Drake, I feel they could be buffed to fill niches for thieves that would both open up new builds and making venoms a stronger choice.2) As for the blast finisher, it was an idea for making it useful to destroy. It currently says it grants stealth but actually does not. Unless that gets fixed, there should be a working benefit to deciding to end the life of the trap.
3) I wasn’t really sure what would be the most correct skill to put it on but giving up your evades was really bad if you don’t build to use/benefit from stealth and seeing invis would help counteract that negative effect (if Anet does not plan on reducing it).
Either the negative effect should come down or it should give more, or there should be a way to trait to remove the effect. And stealth reveal belongs on stun-breakers that way it makes it a tough decision to make to see the enemy, not just a skill that you always pick up vs stealth and automatically activate when they go into hiding.
Again, I think you’re trying to ‘fix’ venoms in the wrong way, by changing them from control skills to survival/escape skills, which the thief already has in other places. They need to carve out a stronger niche, but I don’t think switching their focus completely is the right idea.
I guess I’m not inclined to make the trap useful to destroy yourself, though it could be a further distinction between thief and ranger traps. I’ll think on it a bit more.
Also, they’ve already reduced the drawbacks of haste to match the reduced benefits of quickness, since now it doesn’t put you into negative endurance and you still recover some endurance while under its effects. I honestly feel like this skill is in a pretty good spot, it’s just that quickness doesn’t win things for you quite as handily as it used to.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
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It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
(edited by Softspoken.2410)
Well, he commented on around everything I wanted to hear regarding necromancers. My favourite thing though, even more than increased value for weakness or the possibility of healing in Death Shroud, is the thought of more significant life force generation. I really think that could be a fun direction for Death Shroud to go.
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(edited by Softspoken.2410)
I wonder if putrid mark triggers the chaos armor combo effect based on the enemy’s location, rather than the mark’s?
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No, Blood Red’s pretty spot on about this. Precision scales poorly for damage unless you somehow have a pile (>50%) of prowess. And if you’re running full Soldier or Knight, you won’t.
Basically the 750 precision won’t make up the 300 power you lost in terms of damage. Now if you have a couple good on-crit effects that you want to leverage, that’s a different story, but just strictly for damage? Precision isn’t that good of a stat.
Edit: I happen to have a pile of Soldier Gear that I run with in PvE. It feels really good to revive your allies multiple times in a fight because they keep dropping from chip damage, without ever going down yourself.
I’ve wanted to try a retaliation / group heal Cleric build for a while, but can’t be bothered to scrounge together another gear set.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
(edited by Softspoken.2410)
I think you’re trying to ‘fix’ Venoms in a way that they simply aren’t broken. Venoms are about adding additional control conditions to the thief’s bar: running four of them shouldn’t give a thief absolutely everything. Especially because you don’t have to run 4 venoms and all their traits to make them useful. See: devourer venom in burst damage builds.
Now, on to the specifics and ideas I liked more.
Shadow Trap: [Destroy Shadow Trap] Blast Finisher
[Shadow Pursuit] Range 1500, Breaks stunsGives traps a stun breaker, allows for more self comboing. Unique over other blinks since it has the longest range.
Currently, Shadow Pursuit has a massive range (when it works). Adding a stun breaker does feel right for the skill. It may be a bit too much? But I think it could be an acceptable amount of power.
I don’t think a blast finisher on destroying the trap is a good idea though. It encourages people to bring the trap without actually using it.
Scorpion Wire: Also removes protection, vigor, and regen
More reason to use it than just a CC, helps tackle boon-reliant enemies, justifies cooldown.
This is an interesting idea for scorpion wire. It could be another source of boon rip / steal for the thief. I don’t think you need to make it specify what boons specifically, just adding “Removes two boons” / “Steals a boon” makes it have a lot more usage.
Smoke Screen: Also impassable for summoned units and pets
Helps vs classes like mesmer, necro, ele, ranger that can easily pressure the thief w/ summons.
Adding a restrictive impassibility to this skill doesn’t make a lot of sense. Especially because with you can already use this skill to blind any summon that’s trying to stick to you. Plus abilities that put up impassible walls is already a Guardian gimmick.
Haste: Also grants vision of stealthed enemies and traps.
There are a lot of bad things about giving up your dodges. Seeing stealth would give it a unique value over all other stun breakers meaning there is more of a reason to choose it. Helps counteract the negative effect and opens up options for counter-stealth/ counter-trap builds.
Okay while I like the idea of “see all invisible objects”, and would love to see it implemented on multiple professions, I really don’t think Haste is the place to put it. Haste is an all-out aggressive utility, so you can deliver that burst / stomp even faster. Detection seems a lot more defensive, or maybe counter-defensive, but not strictly aggressive the way Haste is. Just seems like the wrong place.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
(edited by Softspoken.2410)
I have not seen this bug referenced either here, or in the Game Bugs section. Did I miss something? This one is very obvious, you probably all know it:
The range indicator (white circle) of Plague remains after exiting the transformation early.
I have a video showcasing this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtnDPkApxO8
Yeah I know exactly what you’re talking about, and I’m not really sure how I missed it. Anyways, it’s added to the list now! Thanks for pointing it out!
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Out of curiosity, has anyone seen what happens if you do nothing to stop the prisoners?
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I kind of wish they’d make feast of corruption match that Risen Plaguebearer attack, where it bites multiple times. An extra bite for each condition, to really drive home the extra power you’re getting out of it.
It might sound really annoying though, so I’m not entirely certain.
I’m okay with the auto-attack being pretty minimal, and grasping dead is neat enough as-is. I just feel like feast of corruption needs more.
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It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
(edited by Softspoken.2410)
Thank you so much for these, ReMortis. I’ve got the links put in at the correct spots for each bug video now, assuming I copy / pasted correctly. There aren’t many other bugs I’m dying to have video evidence of: the only one is the Plague Form AoE, and it’s kind of hard to show if your character is human, which yours appears to be, since the circle is scaled correctly.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
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We aren’t going to get combo finishers. Why? Because you aren’t supposed to be able to combo off of yourself too much, they put this system into the game to provide team support; not necessarily solo support. Generally speaking, you either have lots of fields, lots of finishers, or somewhere in between, and a lot of them are based on weapon skills.
Here is the problem, we are completely off the norm. We get our fields almost exclusively off utility skills, which means adding anything to weapon skills gives us a lot to combo off of. So where are our finishers? Minions. In fact we have one of the highest field/finisher builds possible in Death Nova + minions.
Also, actually take a look at how the fields/finishers are spread out before you post here. There has been a bunch of stuff said that is flat out false.
Bolded is my complaint. If you take staff, you get a 20% projectile finisher on a slow recast (meh) a short-lived poison field (again, kind of meh) and a ranged blast finisher. (Pretty good)
If you don’t take staff (stop laughing) you have no combo effects on your weapons, which means you’re only going to play the combo game with your utility skills.
On reflection, my earlier claim about wells was exaggerated. There are other combo fields in ethereal wall and CoPoClo. The popularity of those skills is lacking, but I have to acknowledge that they could be put into a wider variety of builds for their combo field effects.
Edit:
check how they are spread.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Table_of_necromancer_combo_skills
Then you can check every other class.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Combo
Not counting projectil, we have 3(Wow!) finisher, also we don’t more combo field then anyone else. Most class have as many field then us (And better field if you ask me). Only warrior are getting the shaft in the field departement, but yeah warrior need help as much as we do.
Hm. They don’t include the minions in either of those lists, and the projectiles from bone fiend are actually kind of impressive. I wonder how I edit that…
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(edited by Softspoken.2410)
How it works is when you press the skill, your bone fiend is immobilized. He then gets a “buff” of sorts, where his attacks from then on cause 2 seconds of immobilize (and also deal a bit more damage), for the duration of the “buff”.
So if you immobilize him in a position where he doesn’t have LoS or if he drops aggro, you’re SoL. Same with if the attack misses, if the duration ends without taking effect, etc. It is a very powerful ability, since it can last for at least 2 auto attacks (it looks like it lasts at least 6 seconds, so maybe even 3), meaning 8 seconds of immobilize, but its difficult to hit.
Edit: it looks like it lasts 5 seconds, so with decent timing you can get 2 hits out of it, not 3, but its also possible to only get 1, since it doesn’t reset auto attacks.
That’s interesting, I honestly thought that the immobilize was only on the next attack, singular. It’s also good to know that the delay is basically player dependent: if I’m watching, I can probably get the immobilize fairly soon after hitting the button and get a bonus immobilize proc as well. Still a bit annoyed at the 50 second recharge, but it makes a bit more sense now.
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3) Lol? Its a 4 second immobilize every successful hit, if you chain this with dagger 3 you are forcing them to blow a cleanse or eat some serious damage (ever worry about someone staying in a well? not with rigor mortis).
Generally I’m willing to defer to others for minions, since I don’t have a ton of experience, but I usually don’t have much success with Rigor Mortis. IIRC, there’s a significant delay (Much longer than say, the casting time of Dark Pact) between you using the skill and the immobilizing attack occuring, something that always turned me off about the active, even more than its 50 second recharge.
Am I just using it incorrectly?
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(edited by Softspoken.2410)
Are you sure about the minions thing? I did a test long time ago, and it didn’t seem to be about distance or not.
I rarely find useful to “precast” Putrid mark. Since it better used as a situational marks, because of the condition transfer.
We do have a good amount of field, not the best if you ask me (except Ethereal, this field own), but I feel like we lack the finisher.
Some people say Weakness is good, but I’m not a fan. Half of it effect are useless on crit class, the only useful part is the endurance regen.
I’m quite certain on Bone Minions. It was a few months ago that I first heard about it and specifically checked it, but I don’t think it’s changed since then. You’re right that Putrid Mark probably shouldn’t be pre-cast, I just think it’s a funny (but strangely appropritae) behavior to ‘store’ blast finishers inside it.
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It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
I’d love to see something like Order of the Vampire or Blood Bond make its way back into GW2 via the new DS5 condition. Obviously that also allows others to inflict / play with it since it wouldn’t be wholly exclusive, but I think a necro with bloodthirst might get the best usage out of it. Plus they could sneak it onto another couple of weapon skills / utilities, hint hint.
That might be more Heal support than Damage support. As it is, I think damage support is inflicting vulnerability. If you focus (heh) on it, you can spread a lot of vulnerability as a Necro.
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So I agree that Necros feel kind of lacking in terms of combos, but there’s a few things I wanted to point out.
Putrid Mark -> Our best combo blast, yet usually combo with chillbain or wells. Nothing much to say about it, tho marks can be unreliable for combo finisher sometime.
Putrid Mark decides its finisher when it’s placed, but activates it when it’s triggered, so you can make a sort of Chaos-Armor landmine out of it, which I think is kind of funny.
Bones minions -> Rare are the build using them. The bugged AI(pathing) make it unreliable in PvE and WvW. You also never know which one will explod, so it can be hard to time your field. Especially if they are far from each other, or you lose sight of them in the middle of the fight.
While it’s definitely hard to keep track of them in a busy fight, I want to make it known that the minion that is closer to you, the necromancer, will always explode first.
Flesh Worm -> Really our worse blast finisher. And I love this utility. In WvW I nearly have it on every build. Yet the blast finisher is useless. You never use it to port in a combo field. You keep it to escape, You would have to cast a combo field away from you, then cast your worm, then port. I really fail to see the concept here. Even the activate damage are worthless on the worm.
Yeah I’m not sure on this one. On the bright side, now it self-combos with Death Nova! But still, generally not used to charge into a fight.
We actually have a lot of combo fields, the problem is that most of them are wells, and it seems kind okittenward to put in just one or two wells in most builds – I could be wrong, maybe they’re great here and there, but often it feels like if you go wells, you go all wells.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
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It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
My wurm manages to proc confusion on that terrain from the video in most other cases though. I guess the case in the video is unique in some way or something.
Just to specify, the traited duration is 15 seconds and not 16 as I’ve stated earlier.
Untraited duration – 9, traited duration – 15, so basically no combo field for the additional 6 seconds. I guess I won’t be testing the blast finishers on the bonus duration then if it doesn’t work with 100% finishers, heh.
I think I might make a video where I play around with blasts from minions, staff 4 and necrotic traversal but I don’t think it’s going to be that systematic since the situations I had were veeeeeery different.
I think it also relates to the height of your opponent. Earlier I was testing on Jotun, which are kind of tall, so the wurm shoots upwards to hit them. Whereas some golems it’d fire downwards at, and probably be more likely to combo with the wall.
But by putting the wurm & bone fiend on a small ledge, then having them fire right at a large golem, they actually went over the ethereal wall without proccing it. So I think height is a major issue on that skill. I sort of need to test with other line combo field skills now, to see if they generally have height / area problems.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
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It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
- I’d say Spiteful Talisman (10 in Spite) needs a video, especially if you can show it once in a PvE context and once in PvP (Heart of the Mists is fine) so it’s clear it works in one, but not the other.
Spiteful Talisman “should” be fixed soon. So I’ll skip that one. I’ll get working no the others. Let me know if you want more. I’ll try and get them done ASAP.
We can hope. Spiteful Talisman is probably the oldest bug on this list and I want it gone.
These ones will be good for a start, I just want to make sure it’s clear what the bugged behavior is in these videos. Thanks again for this.
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It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
I’m willing to do video recordings for the bugs we have if that’s what it takes for ANet to get it together and fix the Necromancer. Should I just do ALL of them or which would we need video proof of? Sent you a PM about this, Softspoken.
Got your PM, still trying to decide on which ones!
- I’d say Spiteful Talisman (10 in Spite) needs a video, especially if you can show it once in a PvE context and once in PvP (Heart of the Mists is fine) so it’s clear it works in one, but not the other.
- I just found out about a bug with ethereal wall: If you use Spectral Attunement (20 in curses), the combo field fades long before the wall does. It’s best seen with a bone fiend equipped, since it’ll do 2 stacks of confusion again and again until suddenly nothing, with nothing changing position.
- Chill of Death (20 in Spite) not working at all underwater would be good. Just make sure you attack something that actually survives for a few hits past 25% so it’s clear nothing happens? Also, it should show up in the combat log if it procs. (Shows up as Spinal Shivers)
- If you could show that Last Gasp (15 in SR) isn’t increased in duration by Spectral Attunement (Proc it once with, once without) I’d be appreciative.
- The delay on Bone Minions applying their blast finishers would be nice too. All you need for that is bone minions + well of blood, then watch for the retaliation boon.
- There’s a bug where taking Focused Rituals (20 in curses) makes Spiteful Vigor (20 in Death Magic) stop working for well of blood. It should be pretty clear to show: use well of blood once with FR and once without, and you can see where retaliation does and doesn’t show up.
Those are the bugs that in my opinion are truly hindered functionality. I tried to put them in order of most concern to least concern (I’m sure some forum posters would be glad to disagree with me!) based on severity & popularity. If you can manage to get high enough resolution on the recording that you can read the tooltips, that would be excellent.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
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Ooookay. Now I see it.
So I was wrong, and Flesh Wurm does get a 100% combo finisher, and there is a problem when using it Spectral Wall: the wall is not tall enough. If you put the wurm somewhere sort of low, then manage to lay the wall across a rise in the ground / object so that it’s lifted up, you can get the combo to work.
I’ll put it into the list. I’ve seen other walls that do this, but I think it’s a case-by-case basis on which are tall enough and which are not.
The blast finisher on wall is finicky, but it’s there. I still think it has more to do with how ethereal wall is a line combo field than anything, so it’s hard to hit with blast finishers.
Edit: Hmm, I’ll look into the weirdness from the bonus duration trait, I was getting these results without that. The ethereal combo field could be expiring early.
Edit2: Yes, it is definitely losing the combo field early.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
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It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
(edited by Softspoken.2410)
Taste of Death – I love the idea behind this, but I don’t think it matches what jagged horrors currently are. But it does show what they could be: a sort of “minion resource” that could power up other minion skills, which could be really interesting if you balance skills that create jagged horrors and skills that consume them.
The only issue is that currently, blood fiend is sort of a ‘constant heal’ effect: while you do have the option of consuming it for a (minor?) spike heal, the attraction is more getting gradual healing constantly through a fight. This change to Taste of Death could put sort of conflict with blood fiend’s current role by putting too much focus on the sacrifice. Now that might be exactly what the skill needs, but it’s just a concern I have.
Putrid Explosion – I just want to note that as of right now, bone minions with Death Nova will actually combo with themselves, so putrid explosion also applies AoE weakness. But yeah good skill would use again.
Rigor Mortis – I’ve wondered, could this skill work as a sort of toggle? As long as the bone minion has it activated, it stays immobilized and immobilizes with all shots, if you deactivate it’ll stop immobilizing itself and switch to its current attacks.
Making it instant would be a good enough solution (and help justify the massive recharge) but I’m not so sure you need to add vulnerability. You especially shouldn’t make it apply more vulnerability the more minions you control: that just further rewards builds that are already doing well, in my opinion.
Haunt – A massive blinding AoE sounds excellent, even without the combo field. As it is I think the blind-as-interrupt is a bit too finicky, and I think minion users are pretty good in 1v1 situations already, so I’d rather see their group capabilities boosted a little, especially since shadow fiend is pretty vulnerable.
Necrotic Traversal – I think currently the idea of the damage & poison is to allow a necro (that’s paying close attention) to punish someone meleeing their wurm, since the cost of killing the wurm / losing that stunbreak is high enough that it’s only worth it if you’re about to lose the wurm anyways.
I do like the idea of basically damaging foes at your start position instead of your exit position. It would also make the blast finisher much easier to place & use. I think you could make this skill do the current damage / poison effect at your location, then sacrifice the wurm as usual, just so that Death Nova procs pop up in consistent places for everyone playing. As it is the last-minute switch doesn’t make a lot of sense visually, and seems like more of a mesmer thing?
Edit: Kittens get into everything.
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(edited by Softspoken.2410)
Bonus Item: New Trait
Spite 30 – Jagged Bones
When one of your minions dies, a Jagged Horror spawns from its corpse. Jagged Horrors no longer degenerate. You can control a maximum of five Jagged Horrors.
Explanation:
Why the spite trait line? Mainly because it was the only one with only a single minion related trait. The others have 2, 3, or 0. Why 30 points? Because if someone could have this with both Fetid Corruption and Death Nova that would probably be terrifying. Could it be buffed further to make it a better trait? Absolutely! I’d love to see some ideas for it.
Nnngh don’t do this as a Grandmaster.
I don’t mind the idea of getting jagged horrors in exchange for killed minions or anything, but that would make this the fouth minion-specific grandmaster trait for necromancers, and three is already somewhat annoying for me.
Okay, going back and reading the first post now.
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I’m getting the bone minion to proc confusion twice, every time it shoots through the ethereal wall. Flesh wurm never procced a projectile finisher for me (I don’t think it’s even a 20% chance), but does proc a blast finisher (in this case, Chaos Armor) if I put ethereal wall on top of it before using necrotic traversal, or vice versa. But you have to be really exact with the placement of the wall / wurm.
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(edited by Softspoken.2410)
I really don’t know how to consistently reproduce this, but I did add it to the list a while ago, something I often don’t do for bugs I can’t recreate well. I think it has to do with being forced out of DS while under control effects.
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Then the display is always shown rounded to a full percentage point, even if there is a fractional percent. One of the reasons I’m so sure of this is Gluttony. If we can gain life force in increments besides whole percentage points, why not be able to lose them similarly?
Gluttony allows a skill to gain a fraction of a percent instead of rounding up? Which one? I’m honestly curious.
All of them except spectral grasp? 110% of any percentage that isn’t a multiple of 10 will give a fractional percent*. Again, I think gluttony makes, say, ghastly claws give 8.8% for the full channel, but it’ll display as 9% if you hover over the bar before / after because of rounding. Otherwise gluttony wouldn’t work at all, and we already went through that phase.
*-People of mathematics, I have no idea what the correct terminology was for that sentence, please advise.
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I thought of that but that’s exactly why I made this topic. It’s not fair to judge a class too soon if perhaps trying something at a later time will make me enjoy it more.
I’m torn between Thief, Necro and Guardian. What to do :S
Do you prefer to:
Dash from point to point in a fight, or be a sturdy point that others have to move around?
Empower yourself to overwhelm your enemies, or debilitate foes until they crumble?
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
I’ve been running on the theory there’s a ‘true’ life force value that’s a static number, which is never shown to the player. All interactions with damage work from that, and act like a normal health pool. (With the exception of the 4% degen, which I bet the game just calculates out and subtracts as a static number)
Then the display is always shown rounded to a full percentage point, even if there is a fractional percent. One of the reasons I’m so sure of this is Gluttony. If we can gain life force in increments besides whole percentage points, why not be able to lose them similarly?
Anyways, I’ll keep watching this space, and possibly test it myself a bit.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
So I probably shouldn’t snark at this but:
When using [Infiltrator’s Strike] to an ememy/mob the [Shadow Return] ‘buff’ on the buff bar disappears randomly – thus not allowing the Thief to “return to original location” the [Infiltrator’s Strike] was first laid down at. This has been a problem since BETA, and it is still a problem.
Is a pretty vague and unhelpful bug report. I’m more interested in how someone can apparently use Infiltrator’s Strike multiple times without using Shadow Return or waiting for it to expire.
Essentially, Craw is trying to say that there is a bug that happens on the Sword (although, admittedly, I’m not quite sure how it triggers, personally speaking) that, when you use Infi Strike, you teleport in the general direction of the enemy but Shadow Return doesn’t pop up, it just resets back to Infi Strike as if nothing had ever happened.
Essentially, it looks like
Infi Strike -> Teleport -> Automatic 15 seconds pass on sword in no time whatsoever -> Infi Strike pops up again right after you’ve teleported
I know you’re trying to be helpful, but the only thing I’m interested in knowing is what you skipped: specifics on how to reproduce the unusual behavior. (I bolded / underlined the exact part.)
Granted, Arganthium is apparently afraid for the integrity of his account if the secret gets out, a concern I won’t criticize. But how to execute that bug is probably the only thing of interest to me in this thread, even without actually being in it.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
So I probably shouldn’t snark at this but:
When using [Infiltrator’s Strike] to an ememy/mob the [Shadow Return] ‘buff’ on the buff bar disappears randomly – thus not allowing the Thief to “return to original location” the [Infiltrator’s Strike] was first laid down at. This has been a problem since BETA, and it is still a problem.
Is a pretty vague and unhelpful bug report. I’m more interested in how someone can apparently use Infiltrator’s Strike multiple times without using Shadow Return or waiting for it to expire.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
People often refer to the idea as “Shroud-dancing”. While it can leverage a couple nice boons, it’s important to remember that you can’t really do anything with your Death Shroud as long as you’re double-tapping it every five seconds. You can’t tank damage as easily, and staying in it long enough to use the attacks (besides Doom) will hurt your uptime on boons. Now those choices could still be worth the cost in a battle situation, but I always found it frustrating to play since I never felt like I was at Maximum Effectiveness.
It definitely has some power though. Fury can be pretty strong, and that minor trait is about the only source of fury a Necromancer has.
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It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
Level 71-80:
Guardian, Mesmer, Necromancer, Thief
Level 41-50:
Ranger.
Still waffling on whether or not to get that fancy New Character slot.
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It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It is rather upsetting to know that my dying rat is going to soak up the heal I would want my self to get from the bounce though….. good thing I rarely run with Focus I guess..
Wait for the rat to die first. People always insist it doesn’t take long.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
So as a first pass, I’m not really a fan of traits that have a chance to proc on an action, rather than just “When you do X, Y also happens”. The exception can be you’re doing that thing at a very high frequency (getting hit, attacking a foe, getting a critical hit) but events like summoning minions and placing wells are a lot less frequent.
I did find this take on Spiteful Marks interesting – for a while I’ve thought of retaliation as something really fitting for the necromancer, but wished they could apply it to their friends. Would this allow them to grant retaliation to allies?
For gluttony, a small chance to double is just a spikier/less consistent implementation of the current behavior. Plus, if you give a 10% chance (low?) to get 200% life force, that’ll average out to the same thing as 10% bonus overall.
Shrouded Removal is odd. For one thing, I already really like this trait, so I know I’m biased, but… If it changed to your suggestion, the trait wouldn’t really ‘fix’ conditions or anything, it would just cause them all to pile up on you while you were in Death Shroud. Then when you left it, the 15 bleeds that your foe had been applying periodically would all tick through at once. I guess you could squat in Death Shroud and wait for allied cleanses to save you, but it seems like that’s making the Necromancer more dependent than empowered.
As for Call of the Dead, I already hate krait that can summon barracudas that can summon more barracudas. I do not want to be that krait, I want that krait removed from existence.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
After the patch has anyone noticed if minions are now targets for Focus4 bounces?
Apparently, mesmer clones and engineer turrets are bounce targets! Thread in the bug forum:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Clones-turrets-are-now-Bounce-able-targets
Why yes, in fact they are. Posted about it in the necromancer bug thread earlier, not that surprised nobody noticed it. But yeah, Reaper’s Touch is now an option for healing your minions from a distance. It makes the regen less guaranteed for yourself, but it’s a price I’m willing to pay. You just have to choose when you use it carefully.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
alot of elitism comments.
-snip-
I don’t understand the mentality of many players in this game. For example, ranged attacks is like so kitten taboo they scream exploit every second of the day,week, month and year! If ranged attacks is exploiting, then let’s do without ranged. Everyone goes melee.
Problem solved. No more whiners. “HEY! Shooting from stairs is EXPLOITING!” “Shooting from 1200 range is EXPLOITING”. “10 eles dropping AoE is EXPOITING”…etc.
-snip-
Those complaints aren’t about using ranged attacks. It’s about hitting a mob from somewhere that it can’t actually retaliate properly, but the damage still sticks because it thinks it can attack you. (If a mob knows that it can’t ever hit you back at your current position, it goes invulnerable / keeps out-of-combat regen.)
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It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
I’m kind of surprised they limited it this strictly, to be honest. Infinite was too much, imo, but I would have guessed a 2400 limit before they stuck to the 1200. I guess they don’t want thieves to have the option of a complete disengage on sword 2.
I still wonder how many reports of the bugginess of this shadowstep are warranted though. I find it funny that one heavily obscured screenshot got so many people to just give up on this skill.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
(edited by Softspoken.2410)
Alright, I went through most of the list. Some of the bugs (Lich 5 ripping Aegis?) are pretty difficult for me to test solo, so I’ll have to get to them later.
Something interesting I found was that they have been messing around with Reaper’s Touch. It now bounces towards minions intentionally, something I know it didn’t do before.
Also, I removed
- Deathly Swarm: inconsistent behavior between PvE and PvP (Heart of the Mists). In PvP it transfers a copy of the 3 conditions to each enemy hit (Conditions are still cured from the caster), in PvE it transfers the conditions one at a time, one to each target. (21 Jan, 2013)
Since it’s not quite like that on either mode. (I probably wasn’t paying close enough attention at the time.) Hilariously, the wiki has had its behavior noted correctly since November, but nobody corrected me on this. Tanpopo, whoever you are, your testing is appreciated. (LATE EDIT: Also a thank you to Lopez who brought the topic up in the first place, and was exactly correct in their description.) In both modes, deathly swarm:
- Hits 4 targets if available (can bounce between targets it has already hit, but prefers new targets)
- Copies three conditions the necromancer has and applies them to each target hit
- Cures a condition from the necromancer for each target hit.
I re-listed that as a bug, just under the rule that the tooltip doesn’t really imply the (consistent) behavior, but the severity of the bug has definitely dropped for me.
I also removed the “Trait boosts damage of X skills by Y%, but tooltips don’t update” bugs since I don’t think there’s a single trait fitting that description that actually does alter the tooltips appropriately. That is, it’s not a Necro thing, it’s a game-wide limitation.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
(edited by Softspoken.2410)
How would you fit it in if you’re already in a 5-man group? I’m not an expert, but it seems like 5 additional health bars and boon/condition/effect rows could become a pretty unreadable mass unless you space it out. And if you space it out, I’m just not sure there’s room on the screen.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
The Necro community makes me think of the big business world community during a stock market crash or right after losing millions over night. We’re just one fine hair away from jumping out of the top floor window of Anet central.
Heh, you’re right, there’s a lot of panic mentality on the forums and we tend to be pretty passionate in our first reac-
Then resurrecting each other for a Necro-Army that’s riddled with bugs and demands more changes.
Wait, businessmen can DO that? And I thought finance was boring!
On topic: I’ll remove the bug from the bug list after work, if it’s resolved by then. Kind of hoping we don’t find any other ‘surprises’ like this.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
As far as I can tell, the combination still works for Chillblains.
Somehow, Chillblains has always gotten it right in regards to these traits, while the others have been all over the place.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
Overall I’m disappointed. I do like the bugs that got fixed, but this was pretty underwhelming. Unless there’s a few fixes that weren’t noted in the patch notes (and based on what I’m seeing on the forum, there aren’t) it’s a case of fixing some bugs, which is nice, but some of the most oldest examples of bugs (Spiteful Talisman) are still kicking around.
Edit: And with news that now Staff Mastery conflicts with Greater Marks, I’m not even sure about THAT fix.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
(edited by Softspoken.2410)
This list is going to need a lot of revising today, but here is one bug that remains: Deathly Swarm still only cures one condition for each target it hits. It will copy three conditions onto the first target it hits, but it will only cleanse one. This goes against the description: “Transfer three conditions to your target on a successful attack.”
You could probably take over if you wanted. This bug posting seems to go through cycles. One person starts it, is enthusiastic, keeps it updated for a while, then that dies down and the topic dies… another person takes over and is enthusiastic, etc. It’s just a cycle. If somebody else wanted to officially take over, I bet they could in an instant.
Or you could give me a day or two. I’ve largely been waiting for this patch to do another run through the list because of rumours it was going to have more substantial bug fixes. As it is I won’t be able to start that until tonight or possibly tomorrow, but I’m still around. I appreciate the enthusiasm(?) but don’t count me out just yet.
@Lopez: Deathly Swarm’s behavior is inconsistent between PvE and PvP, which is already noted in the bug list. I’ll look at it again, but as I recall in PvE you need three targets and they each get one of your conditions, while in PvP it spreads the same three conditions to all three targets.
New bug I found with Dark Armor. It does NOT activate Deadly Strength!
When you activate DS #4 skill for example, your toughness goes up, but your power level stays the same. When it increases toughness though, it is supposed to increase your power as well. It doesn’t.
Percentage stat boost skills that draw from other stats (5% of X stat is used as Y stat, etc) work in respect to your base + gear stat values, not temporary bonuses from traits or boons.
Edit: Heh. That used to be on the bug list, actually. It isn’t anymore.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
(edited by Softspoken.2410)
If you are giving an A to many of this traits obviously you didn’t see the other trait trees,
Dude, you would need to invent two new letters before the A…
I respect the hard work you did but this is fallacious,
By far our trait tree is behind the average,
You cannot say what’s good without taking in consideration what the others have,
It doesn’t matter how good you are trying to make it sound, our trait tree, in comparision with the rest, sucks
There probably is a few too many A ratings, if he’s considering A to be the very best. But it’s just like in school: a letter is a condensation of a lot of judgement into a sound byte. You lose a lot of information about the hows and whys. Fortunately, we still have a few of those in these lists.
Oh, and comparing traits directly across professions is a really dangerous thing to do. It often ignores the specialties and drawbacks of specific classes, or the greater context of the trait lines they are found in.
So I mean… Yeah you can compare traits to other professions, but please be thoughtful in how you do it.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
(edited by Softspoken.2410)
-Siphoned Power: Gain might for 5s when hit and under 25% health. Ok, So I am 25% health, I get hit, and i get might for 5s? Utterly useless. one might when I am about to die that lasts the amount of time it takes for me to heal and cast a spell or two is worthless. This is an F grade trait. I am ashamed for the devs for this trait, what were they thinking? I would skip this skill entirely because it is useless.
Adept – Signet Mastery: Signets recharge 20% faster. Ok, well Signets for a necro are pretty much useless to situational, even after the boost to spite signet. -snip- C, only because it becomes slightly decent for the res/plague signet. Anything else, it gets a d-.
I don’t think I’ve met anyone that likes Siphoned Power, but honestly my only problem with this is the duration on the might. Because it’s so short, you can’t really take advantage of it. I love the idea of a Necro hanging on at the edge via Deathshroud popping their heal and going back in to finikitten with 8 (or more???) bonus might stacks, but as is, most of that might will expire by the time the heal finishes. The trait isn’t quite there, but it’s so close. D+
It’s nit-picky, but the idea of the trait is fine. Signets come back up faster, so you get more out of their passives and more frequent actives. It’s just that signets themselves are iffy, especially on necromancers.
Master – Signet Power: Activating a signet gives you three stacks of might for 10 seconds. Skipable, never even tried it, as most of my builds use 0 signets, or a signet in a condition where 3 stacks of might is negliable. I give this an F, because this an irritating trait and just never selected.
I also think this is a poor trait, but not just because signets aren’t that great. I just feel like 3 stacks of might is a really boring reward for using a signet. On a few it’s sort of fitting (Plague, Spite) but it doesn’t really match Locust or Undeath. I get that it matches traits on a few other professions, but I’d like to see it (and similar traits on other professions) be altered to match the profession more closely. D because it’s just so bleh, but not actively insulting.
I thought of combining all of [these threads], but it gets too cluttered and I would like a solid discussion on each trait line. Thanks. Gryph
I’ve now posted to each one, I hope I don’t come across as nagging at your or anything. The ones I didn’t pick out of your lists I either generally agreed with, except maybe sliding up or down a letter grade.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
Adept – Full of Life: Gain 5 seconds of regeneration when your health reaches 90% (30-second cooldown). Ok, heath reaches 90%, WTH will regen do for me there. How about 50% health. That makes sense. 90% health? Blah, D grade. Give me a break.
Master – Vampiric : Siphon health whenever you hit a foe. Ok, interesting. Siphon health whenever I hit a foe? Scaleable with healing? No. Not really. I give this a D. Maybe its my misunderstanding but this is just…. blah. -snip- No. D.
Grandmaster – Blood to Power: Deal 5% more damage while your health is above 90%. Ok. this might be good for pve, when one hit does not slap you below 90% hps. -snip- I give this a D.
Adept – Bloodthirst: Siphoning health is 50% more effective. WHen I first read this, I was like, kitten 50%! wow, this rocks. well,,,,, not really. -snip- Work on our siphoning imo.
Adept – Transfusion: Life Transfer heals nearby allies. SOrry, never used it, and Don’t have any experience with it. I will leave this one up to other, but because I don’t use this skill, I give it a C-.
Drarnor already nailed it on Full of Life. You’re getting the regen sooner, and are more likely to get it twice or three times in a fight.
Vampiric is in an iffy spot right now. The idea is good, the execution is a little lacking. I can’t rate it low because constant small heals while you’re successfully attacking is very good, but I can’t rate it high because the healing is too small and capped by its lack of scaling with compassion (healing power).
Blood to power is for people that are playing healer-support, or some other build that doesn’t rely on going into the front-lines itself to be effective. This may also apply to minion masters. It gives them more damage to make up for how they’ve probably sacrificed damage to stay so safe, and reward their play style. Still limited, but I can see it. So it’s a C for me.
Bloodthirst – See vampiric. I think it’s better than what you’re giving it, but it’s not quite as great as I want it to be, because siphons aren’t quite as great as they should be.
Transfusion is when you want to help your allies out with some heals, but you don’t want to drop 800 points in healing power. It’s pretty minimal investment as an adept trait, and you get maximum effectiveness out of it regardless of your compassion. It’s either a B+ or an A though, because it’s fairly strong. Also good for minion masters.
Fetid Consumption: Minions draw conditions. Each minion can draw one condition every 10 seconds. -snip- This is an OK skill. MInoins take conditions off you. -snip- I want to give it a D, but the fact that they draw conditions off you every 10 seconds… wait a minute, dont guardians get this at the adept level? OH kitten me, D. It gets a D.
Grandmaster - Vampiric Rituals: Wells also siphon health every time they pulse. I would select this, and have on rare occasions when I am doing high health, low defense, high power builds. However, my feelings on this trait also reflect the low Healing power scaling we seem to be afflicted with. I have to say, I rarely, if ever go 30 into blood because there is no reason too. I give it a C. Dissappointing for a grandmaster trait.
Fetid Consumption – Each minion. It’s probably more comparable to the Ranger (grandmaster) trait that periodically pulls 3 conditions to your pet. Except ours can pull more conditions at a time, and doesn’t actually afflict the minion with the conditions, if my sources are correct. (It’s also only for a specific build type, so I guess that’s a point against it.) B-.
Vampiric Rituals – At least a B. It can restore a lot of health if you rush in and drop a well (or two, or three) on a couple people, which is a tactic I’ve seen / heard a lot of. Also, you want high toughness, not high health if you’re trying a siphon strategy: makes the healing more effective, relatively. And this is without any additional scaling from healing power.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
Adept – Toxic Landing: Creates a poison cloud when you take falling damage. Take 50% less falling damage. Sorry, cant think of a single time I chose this over another trait. It is useless. What? Am I dive bombing people off a cliff? Poor strategy engendered by a poor, worthless trait. Grade of F.
Adept – Reaper’s Precision: You have a 33% chance to gain 1% life force on critical hits. Hmm, one of the more weaker adept level traits. i give it a C, because I just skip it for most other traits, especially if I start to go more than 20 points into curses.
Master – Spectral Attunement: Spectral skills have longer durations and grant life force on use. Hmm, I cannot say I have ever chosen this trait in any of my builds because i get so much more use out of other skills. Our spectral skills are lackluster to begin with (other than spectral walk). Thus, I gave it a grade of C. I just can’t see it being that useful.
Ok, so I think the curses trait line is practically the strongest trait line for the necro. There are some odd placements (in my opinion, ground targetable wells just is odd, though I can see the logic to some degree), but overall this is a solid trait line.
Toxic Landing is just the mandatory “50% falling damage, create an effect when you land” trait. I do agree that the poison field is underwhelming though, since it isn’t a particularly strong way to start a fight or escape it. D for me. Still not good, but not a crime against the Necromancer.
I’ve been thinking about Reaper’s Precision a bit lately. It seems to me that it’s meant for use with high hit (and crit) volume weapons, like main-hand dagger / axe / warhorn. But none of those weapons need the extra life force badly enough to sacrifice a trait. What does need it is something like scepter / off-hand dagger / staff without soul marks, who can’t really crit at a high frequency.
And in both cases, I think it just doesn’t generate enough life force. D for me.
Change Reaper’s Precision to have a 1 or 2 second internal cooldown, but proc on 66% – 100% of critical hits.
I’m hesitant though because trying to bias it towards Sc/D and the like could create too much competition for the Adept slot for those weapons that already have good choices, and lock out weapons like dagger / axe from going into curses. (Is enfeebling shroud enough?)
Spectral Attunement is a pretty great trait, I nearly prefer it to Spectral Mastery if I’m invested in spectrals, and combining the two can create some real power. But I cannot for the life of me figure out why it’s in Curses. It’s a great example of a trait that’s fine, except it is completely misplaced.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
Master – Mark of Revival: Create a Reaper’s Mark while reviving someone. Can only trigger once every 45 seconds. No, 45 second cooldown on this kitten trait? no, D.
Master – Decaying Swarm: At 25% health, you become surrounded by a locust swarm. 25% health, i get surrounded by a locust swarm that keeps me in combat, by striking anyone near me, including mobs, thus rendering the swiftness null and void. Useless. It is doing nothing. D.
I don’t quite agree with these. I don’t choose Mark of Revival, because I’m not a fan of “On reviving” traits, but it’s obvious that what it’s for is nice. Combine this with Greater Marks and you have a nice zone to keep your ally safe from meddlers while you revive them. Not effective on stability stomps, but stops quickness and stealth stomps nicely. It’s a C or C+ at least.
Decaying Swarm – Your example is kind of confusing. How have you been dropped past 25% health, are still near mobs, and not already in combat?
The major idea of this trait is that if you get swarmed, you’re now generating life force pretty rapidly. Swiftness is still increased speed when you’re in combat, and can help you make a break for it after a quick cripple / chill on your opponent. B for me, since it’s meant for melee / close up roles and doesn’t fight with the other traits (For staff without other LF generators, terrormancers / control freaks, and combat medics) for that role.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
While I think you’re seriously undervaluing Death Nova (Look at what it turns bone minions into, if nothing else) what I’m taking away most from this thread is: Death Magic major traits are generally pretty good, but the minors really mess up the line if you’re not running minions.
Both the Grandmasters being about minions doesn’t bug me as much, since if you want the stats that Death Magic grants, you’ve got most of them by the time you get to the Grandmaster level. As is, you’re forced to get a couple traits that are probably useless to you if you want boon duration.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
Of course then I look at the same stuff with signet of malice and I want to cry.
Comparing a couple of traits to a dedicated healing skill will only lead to tears. My tears. Which I am crying right now.
:’(
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
I honestly love the Colossus Rumblus fight, because it feels like a send-up to classic trinity design, in a dungeon filled with long-dead ghosts of the past (SYMBOLISM). Your entire group, collectively, needs to be the healer / DPS. Grast is the tank: he blocks the big attack for you. Can you keep him alive to do it?
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.