Guild Wars 2

Kyle.9523:

Spirigo.2897:

Kyle.9523:

Spirigo.2897:

Sorel.4870:

Spirigo.2897:

Kyle.9523:

russia.9057:

There’s a lot more nuance involved in PVP than running head first into mid over and over again.

I will bet money spirigo.2897 does this

Oh yeah, that illusive “nuance” that gets mentioned a lot but is never explained.

Let me guess, one guy goes to close.

Woo such strategies!

http://www.twitch.tv/thelordhelseth/v/4761630

Sorry but no. I love watching videos like these for some of the other games I play, such as Doto, LoL or CS but here it’s just 1 of 5 total members of GW2 pro scene (or was it 11?) showing us some skill spam. The first 3 minutes of this video show all that is wrong with PvP.

Abusing stealth – check.
Irrelevance of major skills, hence why skill spam is enough – check.
The outcome of the match decided by a passive element – check.
Match decided by the first minute – check.

Yep, PvP here is deep… In kitten.

Refuses to learn how to play the PvP game type – check.
Sucks at PvP as a result and complains on the forums – check.

I get that people have gotten bored of conquest, but its been the game type that PvP has been centered around since launch. If you are bad at it you only have yourself to blame.

Making random assumptions about the user he doesn’t agree with but can’t argue against because mad and fanboy – check.

I’m not making assumptions, I’m going based off of what you said in the posts above. You know, the one I quoted. Where instead of taking something and learning from the video you just point out all the “flaws” you find in pvp. This shows me that you don’t want to learn, you just want to complain. Like a child. Got anymore emotional arguments you would like to make?

You replied with that video to my post about PvP being shallow. I saw the very same boring and broken mechanics that I do playing ranked every day.

“Oopsie, I missed Moa! Nvm it worked out anyways.”

Great. Am I supposed to be in awe atm? Because the guy just missed a game changing ultimate at an important moment in the match and suffered no consequence. Today, I watched VP vs BU Dota2 match where an ultimate got countered during end game and decided the outcome of the match. How? With one of a kind 0.1s play in response to almost nonexistent cast animation.

The point being that your cooldowns have so little value in this game that everything boils down to skill spam.

Supposedly this video was going to show me that GW2 PvP has some amazing depth to it, but the guy’s explanation ultimately boiled down to maintaining the advantage with individual micro skills. Well tyvm I know that already, in fact in another thread I wrote that in terms of complexity GW2 PvP stops with your character.

For some reason you think that anyone who doesn’t like conquest is bad at it. That’s a terrible mindset to have. In actuality it’s a question of it being so boring and anti-fun that many players lose interest. The combat is there, but the balance and the actual maps aren’t.

Basically, if this was supposed to impress me and motivate me to give this crap another go, well, I’m still not impressed.

Are you mad because you main a pewpew Ranger or something? Deal with it, it’s a toxic build.

^ Whataboutism intensifies.

Because I can take ranger and destroy decently skilled people playing meta builds by pressing 2 buttons or just from auto.

Yes I’d rather have no Rangers than 2300 range botting simulator that we have now. In fact, I’d just remove the current conquest crap with its idiotic meta from the game and replace it with something similar to GvG or HA from the old game.

Kyle.9523:

Spirigo.2897:

Sorel.4870:

Spirigo.2897:

Kyle.9523:

russia.9057:

There’s a lot more nuance involved in PVP than running head first into mid over and over again.

I will bet money spirigo.2897 does this

Oh yeah, that illusive “nuance” that gets mentioned a lot but is never explained.

Let me guess, one guy goes to close.

Woo such strategies!

http://www.twitch.tv/thelordhelseth/v/4761630

Sorry but no. I love watching videos like these for some of the other games I play, such as Doto, LoL or CS but here it’s just 1 of 5 total members of GW2 pro scene (or was it 11?) showing us some skill spam. The first 3 minutes of this video show all that is wrong with PvP.

Abusing stealth – check.
Irrelevance of major skills, hence why skill spam is enough – check.
The outcome of the match decided by a passive element – check.
Match decided by the first minute – check.

Yep, PvP here is deep… In kitten.

Refuses to learn how to play the PvP game type – check.
Sucks at PvP as a result and complains on the forums – check.

I get that people have gotten bored of conquest, but its been the game type that PvP has been centered around since launch. If you are bad at it you only have yourself to blame.

Making random assumptions about the user he doesn’t agree with but can’t argue against because mad and fanboy – check.

Sorel.4870:

Spirigo.2897:

Kyle.9523:

russia.9057:

There’s a lot more nuance involved in PVP than running head first into mid over and over again.

I will bet money spirigo.2897 does this

Oh yeah, that illusive “nuance” that gets mentioned a lot but is never explained.

Let me guess, one guy goes to close.

Woo such strategies!

http://www.twitch.tv/thelordhelseth/v/4761630

Sorry but no. I love watching videos like these for some of the other games I play, such as Doto, LoL or CS but here it’s just 1 of 5 total members of GW2 pro scene (or was it 11?) showing us some skill spam. The first 3 minutes of this video show all that is wrong with PvP.

Abusing stealth – check.
Irrelevance of major skills, hence why skill spam is enough – check.
The outcome of the match decided by a passive element – check.
Match decided by the first minute – check.

Yep, PvP here is deep… In kitten.

Kyle.9523:

russia.9057:

There’s a lot more nuance involved in PVP than running head first into mid over and over again.

I will bet money spirigo.2897 does this

Oh yeah, that illusive “nuance” that gets mentioned a lot but is never explained.

Let me guess, one guy goes to close.

Woo such strategies!

They provide AoE cripple, lots of damage and knock backs from hard to reach locations while more resilient members of their team prevent the point from being taken by the enemy.

Necros can do that too but slower and from a shorter range. Lack of mobility and stealth means they will fall to pressure rather easily and Engineers are better off in the thick of things tbh.

With ranger, just stand back, pewpew and win. If you can’t do that… Well, it’s a l2p™ issue lol.

Degrading the discussion to hurr durr <insert random negative assumption about the other poster here>. Looks really stupid you know.

In response to the argument that pro play defines all, yes they are useless in a sense that they don’t appear in tournaments and don’t meet the same requirements as the current meta builds. Though it’s really more of a matter of them being countered by high levels of organization which aren’t present at most levels of soloq, if at all given the matchmaking.

The main problem is that the build is toxic and annoying to face, more so than the meta which is saying a lot. It’s the same case as with the old Warrior; far too good at what it does for how easy to play it is, but with certain weaknesses that keep it out of the pro play.

As I said, there are champions in LoL that never appear in pro play but see occasional nerfs to keep them in check because said champions are built around mechanics that can be easily abused to great effect in pubs, often kittening off a lot of people. Dota2 has seen its fair share of pub centric nerfs for the same reason.

Dota2 has tutorials, and a lot of other essential things that GW2 doesn’t. Part of the problem is that the conquest maps are unintuitive, with a lot of easily abused mechanics or vital strategies that are unclear. It no longer a question of complexity but rather a question of poor design.

Toxsa.2701:

Spirigo.2897:

Compare how easy it is to play pewpew Ranger and how effective it is at what it does to any other build. Just do it.

Without range defense or gapclosers you are basically kittened. You need to close the gap and pressure them out of their escapes.

Again, start queing up already and make a video about it and we’ll believe you. Using Hot-Join as an example is poor excuse. I can 100% guaranteed shout-bow War and Engineer, are way easier to play to be effective, even to a relatively new people.

First of all speak for yourself. That “we” makes you insecure and makes me right. There is a power Ranger in every ranked match I play. The build is incredibly popular for a reason.

Sure, shout-bow is easy as well but isn’t straight up infuriating to play against.

Your argument is that an annoying, toxic build should be left untouched because there are other broken and toxic builds around. Well rise and shine, the entirety of PvP is built around a toxic, anti-fun game mode that failed to stick in a number of other esports games in the past. Obviously the meta for that game mode is going to suck regardless of how comperatively balanced the classes are among themselves.

Compare how easy it is to play pewpew Ranger and how effective it is at what it does to any other build. Just do it.

Without range defense or gapclosers you are basically kittened. You need to close the gap and pressure them out of their escapes.

Because that weak build is annoying as hell to play against, and is not the only such build that sees the light of day frequently. Coupled with the fact that Conquest is a kitten game mode and that some maps like Suckhammer make it even more kitten leads to people leaving. The PvP community that surged into this game at the start expecting greatness left with the words “It’s imbalanced skillspam” for the greener pastures as a result.

It’s not uncommon to see balance patches applied to characters in LoL or Dota2 that make no sense when applied solely to competetive play, but have to be done because the said character can abuse certain pub nuances.

And for the record, yes a power Ranger pewpewing from high ground with no regard for objectives or team mates is also extremely annoying to have on your team. I don’t see how it redeems that build in any way.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Spirigo.2897:

None of the above changes the fact that it’s broken when coupled with easy of play, damage and escape tools.

A build doesn’t have to be good in competetive play or win 1v1 against comp meta to be toxic. Power Rangers abuse lack of organization in soloq too well, at minimal risk and requiring minimal skill.

But you are right saying that in some aspect, every build is toxic and annoying in some way or another, which is one of the reasons why GW2 never took of as esports.

Funny to see Ranger mains trying to prove their easy mode button is alright.

^says ranger’s are easy to kill, still calls rangers easy mode….

Sounds to me like you are getting your kitten handed to you by rangers but you are to embarrassed to admit it.

I can get more out of spamming two buttons than any other class so in that sense of course it’s easy mode. If you dont know what to do against one or get caught out, it’s annoying. If you do know what to do and don’t get caught out, it’s a matter of them delaying the inevitable in the most annoying ways possible.

I didn’t take the key objective, the game counted to a number and made me win. Feels unrewarding and boring.

None of the above changes the fact that it’s broken when coupled with easy of play, damage and escape tools.

A build doesn’t have to be good in competetive play or win 1v1 against comp meta to be toxic. Power Rangers abuse lack of organization in soloq too well, at minimal risk and requiring minimal skill.

But you are right saying that in some aspect, every build is toxic and annoying in some way or another, which is one of the reasons why GW2 never took of as esports.

Funny to see Ranger mains trying to prove their easy mode button is alright.

Do you even read lol?

Easy to kill or not, power Rangers are not fun to play against. They can also cheese kills and objectives extremely well. Toxic, easy and shockingly useless. This build is as much of an annoyance to enemy as it is a detriment to its own team.

Nobody likes playing against power Rangers. In fact nobody takes GW2 PvP seriously because it’s anti-fun skill spam. Just look at the stream viewers or player counts compared to Dota2 and LoL. The numbers speak for themselves.

My advice: Play PvE.

It’s a total chillfest where everyone is nice and helpful. It’s fair to everyone, even those that are new or hate the meta.

Dahkeus.8243:

Your first mistake was taking forum complaining seriously. =P

If it were about any other aspect of the game I’d agree but PvP? Sure it has potential because of combat but Conquest and fairly well balanced but anti-fun meta make PvP the worst thing ever.

Is it dead? Well you can find a match, people still play for the sake of skins and dailies. Is it dead as something not worth taking seriously? Hell yes.

Personally, I kittening hate it with a burning passion. Worst thing ever, kittenes me off to the point where I even begin to hate the game as a whole, forgetting how good the community is.

Avoid!!!

Ranger shoots at me from 2300 range due to a bug. I look around, it’s from across the map.

It then takes me longer to get in range than to actually kill the stupid thing. Oh but wait, I also have to deal with all the CC it throws at me when I actually do get in range because shooting from somewhere in Australia apparently isn’t enough to make a build viable, it also needs CC and mobility.

Oh and if I were to try and escape… Well too bad that kittener snipes me from so far away I can actually revive myself before he comes in range for a stomp.

And did I mention RF yet? Oh no it’s not hard to dodge, but if you were to not see the Ranger position itself 2300 range away or used up your dodge rolls GG.

OP? Maybe not. kittening frustrating, toxic and anti-fun? Hell yeah. That’s reason enough to nerf the build into the ground.

PvP is terrible. I don’t know why some people still bother.

My first match today got hit by the stellar matchmaking, so we ended up losing.

We won the second match but I almost flipped the table. The amount of CC coming from the enemy team was absurd. I literally spent more than half the match just trying to get to my enemies. Funny thing is that all that CC amounted to nothing but frustration as they still lost due to lack of damage.

Did I also mention that it was a complete clusterkitten that made no sense? Because it was a complete clusterkitten that made no sense.

What I absolutely hate though, is that winning or losing never feels like a direct consequence of your actions. We won because the points ticked all the way to 500 and not as a result of taking the key objective. Just like the combat itself, the actual winning/losing has a passive component that trumps everything else.

Honestly, I really want to know if there are people who actually enjoy this crap, and if so why?

What bothers me is how effective premades are in this game compared to other PvP games. Stacks in MOBAs can be a pain but not to the point where winning becomes impossible.

Saiyan.1704:

Spirigo.2897:

Saiyan.1704:

You have terrible premises sir.
GW2 isn’t “esports” like that moba because Anet wasn’t trying to be. Plain and simple. Anet didn’t even mention pvp when they gave their intentions/goals/values for GW2!

You’re right, GW2 is indeed complex. Maybe a little too complex for the casual player. The game basically has two different metas! Top tier ESL, team vs team meta and low tier, solo or duo meta. Where rangers, guards and every other zerker class with “op” (they’re not) fire/air sigils. God forbid some one gets on a class that died on the April 2014 patch. The newer players wouldn’t know what to do and scream nerfs.

I would call Mobas a lot more unforgiving that GW2. You die, they gain a level, all of a sudden you have a snowball effect going on. That’s not in GW2’s Conquest at all. You die, you comeback as the same exact player you were when you started the game. Instead of losing experience and potentially “feeding” another player, you lose time and possibly a node.

“Also, moba segregates players based on time spent playing, and winrate much better than GW2 does. So there is a very small chance of a complete newb being pitted against a pro.”

They’re algorithm doesn’t involve class stacking and duo and trio player comps. In spite a lengthier algorithm, Guild Wars 2 still has a better matchmaking. Maybe I just had bad luck on their matchmaking when I played that game for the first time. Who knows.

Still trying to compare apples and oranges.

hide spoiler

You dumbed down what I wrote until it no longer conveyed the original idea that I was trying get across, then wrote a reply to that imaginary post.

First of all, Anets main goal with GW2 is Esports. For as long as the game was out they tried their hardest to get it into ESL spotlight and failed miserably because their PvP system was flawed on so many levels. Pros quickly understood that its a skillspam clusterkitten and left for the greener pastures.

In Dota2 there are also characters that are good at stomping pubs but aren’t used in ESL. Conquest is basically a moba map with all the phases removed, and extra emphasis is put on objective control. This means that the actual PvP element is replaced with running around a node. To make matters worse, every map has a random perk that can either be abused or acts like a complete distraction.

This gives way to toxic builds and mechanics I was talking about earlier. A lot of builds simply aren’t fun to play against. Also because everyone starts at the same power level, there are no means of shutting down certain builds.

Like I said it’s not a question of complexity but the fact that GW2 PvP is badly designed. What makes matters worse is that GW1 PvP was superior in every way and hopefully the new PvP map will convey more of the GW1 PvP.

In terms of complexity Dota2 is much deeper. In essence the game requires one to know every hero, item and strategy, which there are dozens. In contract GW2 complexity stops with your character.

This is not to say we should all drop GW2 and move to Dota2, though PvP in the latter is better in every way. I personally play both. Most importantly what I’m trying to get across, and what you don’t seem to get, is that GW2 PvP is built upon mechanics and strategies that proved to be utterly terrible with players in other, more successful esports games.

Conquest is basically LoL dominion, with Dota2 ratting, where everyone is a 6 slotted bruiser from LoL preS4 warmogs meta.

To those unfamiliar it basically means a lot of super mobile tanks on a map where sneaking in objectives is king, and doing too much actual PvP makes you lose.

…I’m not about to enter that lion’s den… i’m just going to hold my peace.

“Anets main goal with GW2 is Esports.”
Can you link a source to back up that claim? I don’t usually keep up with all the ArenaNet news and all the Dev interview streams.

Because you know I’m right. No idea why you think I’m comparing apples to oranges or whatever.

In fact, even if I were to just directly compare Dota2 and GW2, it would actually become apparent that the two genres are similar. The point is that GW2 is hellbent on building its PvP around mechanics and game modes that were proven to be anti-fun in a number of more successful games.

Just like MOBA games took the best elements from other genres, GW2 should learn from the esports success stories rather than trying to re-invent the wheel from the ground up. In fact, the reason why GW1 PvP was universally acclaimed was partially due to how similar it was to Dota by design. There was a nice balance between objective control and murder, with at least monthly balance patches keeping the meta in check.

Troll all you want but thats how it is.

Btw just google GW2 esports.

Condi Guard is dope, but mostly due to retaliation and tome rather than the actual burn.

Saiyan.1704:

You have terrible premises sir.
GW2 isn’t “esports” like that moba because Anet wasn’t trying to be. Plain and simple. Anet didn’t even mention pvp when they gave their intentions/goals/values for GW2!

You’re right, GW2 is indeed complex. Maybe a little too complex for the casual player. The game basically has two different metas! Top tier ESL, team vs team meta and low tier, solo or duo meta. Where rangers, guards and every other zerker class with “op” (they’re not) fire/air sigils. God forbid some one gets on a class that died on the April 2014 patch. The newer players wouldn’t know what to do and scream nerfs.

I would call Mobas a lot more unforgiving that GW2. You die, they gain a level, all of a sudden you have a snowball effect going on. That’s not in GW2’s Conquest at all. You die, you comeback as the same exact player you were when you started the game. Instead of losing experience and potentially “feeding” another player, you lose time and possibly a node.

“Also, moba segregates players based on time spent playing, and winrate much better than GW2 does. So there is a very small chance of a complete newb being pitted against a pro.”

They’re algorithm doesn’t involve class stacking and duo and trio player comps. In spite a lengthier algorithm, Guild Wars 2 still has a better matchmaking. Maybe I just had bad luck on their matchmaking when I played that game for the first time. Who knows.

You dumbed down what I wrote until it no longer conveyed the original idea that I was trying get across, then wrote a reply to that imaginary post.

First of all, Anets main goal with GW2 is Esports. For as long as the game was out they tried their hardest to get it into ESL spotlight and failed miserably because their PvP system was flawed on so many levels. Pros quickly understood that its a skillspam clusterkitten and left for the greener pastures.

In Dota2 there are also characters that are good at stomping pubs but aren’t used in ESL. Conquest is basically a moba map with all the phases removed, and extra emphasis is put on objective control. This means that the actual PvP element is replaced with running around a node. To make matters worse, every map has a random perk that can either be abused or acts like a complete distraction.

This gives way to toxic builds and mechanics I was talking about earlier. A lot of builds simply aren’t fun to play against. Also because everyone starts at the same power level, there are no means of shutting down certain builds.

Like I said it’s not a question of complexity but the fact that GW2 PvP is badly designed. What makes matters worse is that GW1 PvP was superior in every way and hopefully the new PvP map will convey more of the GW1 PvP.

In terms of complexity Dota2 is much deeper. In essence the game requires one to know every hero, item and strategy, which there are dozens. In contract GW2 complexity stops with your character.

This is not to say we should all drop GW2 and move to Dota2, though PvP in the latter is better in every way. I personally play both. Most importantly what I’m trying to get across, and what you don’t seem to get, is that GW2 PvP is built upon mechanics and strategies that proved to be utterly terrible with players in other, more successful esports games.

Conquest is basically LoL dominion, with Dota2 ratting, where everyone is a 6 slotted bruiser from LoL preS4 warmogs meta.

To those unfamiliar it basically means a lot of super mobile tanks on a map where sneaking in objectives is king, and doing too much actual PvP makes you lose.

Probably a bottleneck in some part of hardware. A friend of mine had an issue like that because of PSU out of all things.

Eurantien.4632:

Ignoring the “you’re wrong” argument…

So you’re saying that a 4s aoe terror fear wouldn’t + 6 bleed stacks/immob wouldn’t impact a team fight? Team fights often decide entire game.

Is it not impactful because there are too many ways that it could be countered? Too many aoe condi cleanses? Then, doesn’t that just mean that the team on the offensive has done a poor job to bait out those clears first? Then… that would mean Guild Wars 2 is just too hard for those on the offensive? Wouldn’t that mean Guild Wars is too complex compared to say, Dota 2?

To the same extent as something like Calldown and Golems into RP Skewer? No. Not even close. Nor would it look or feel anywhere as cool or have a lasting effect on how the rest of the game progresses.

GW2 feels confusing at times, but not because it’s complex but rather because the PvP is badly designed. The pace feels off, the power levels of everyone involved are a complete rollercoaster and the key objective feels unclear. There are things like trebs, beasts and guild lords but the bonuses they provide are too different. It makes you wonder why these things are even there. Maybe this equates to complexity, but it feels like bad design and the fact that noone cares about GW2 PvP while Dota2 hosts multimillion championships each year proves it.

Dota2 is extremely complex, with hundreds of skills and items each with a unique set of strengths and weaknesses. No match is different because every decision, every item purchase, even the roster of heroes on each team has a lasting effect on the match. Because the matches are long, they feel more rewarding as well and offer more opportunity to screw up and come back from it. At the same time, the core of the game stays the same, which makes it less confusing. Most importantly there is a nice balance between objective based play and the amount of murder going on. GW2 puts too much emphasis on objective control while downplaying the value of solo kills, ganks and team fights all over the map which ruins the fun. In Dota2, this type of passive objective based play is called ratting, at its strongest it was very hated.

The thing is, Anet also sucks at balancing things without killing them. Valve does a pretty good job keeping things at equalish power levels while preserving diversity of strategies.

Also, Dota2 segregates players based on time spent playing, and winrate much better than GW2 does. So there is a very small chance of a complete newb being pitted against a pro.

tl;dr: dodges and stuff should make GW2 a great PvP game, but conquest, lack of support and toxic mechanics mean it’s anything but. watch some Dota2 or LoL highlights/pro games and you will see what I mean.

To me, confusing = bad game design.

Eurantien.4632:

Spirigo.2897:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Shadelang.3012:

Im gonna go on a limb and guess.
One. Your naked or a light armor in zerk
Two. Your opponent. was a 66 longbow build with every available damage multiplier working as well as a good amount of might. (He has 100% endurance. And your being hit from behind=20% damage boost + multiple other damage modifiers)
Three. Your opponent was also complete glass.

What that means is he was running a built fairly similar to the old maul builds that used to be more common. Pop multiple damage modifiers (10% damage from endurance. 10% damage from flanking. 25% from SotW. As well as the signet of the hunt proc all at once) and make sure that one attack hits.

Which means you got wrecked by someone in a literally perfect situation. Im assuming he ganked you. Your probably died at about the same speed you would have if a good thief had ganked you.

That’s not the point. The point is you can do this as a ranger while sitting on the other side of map.

Realisticly it’d only happen in Hot Join zzz.
If a ranger just sit on the other side of map doing his stuffs, he either is a bad ranger, or your team suck and couldn’t force ranger to stand on cap point because all your nodes are being taken by enemies.

Laraley.7695:

I know that recognizing someone is exaggerating from a written text can be difficult, but I imagined this was an easy one.

I don’t need exaggeration. My point is I have a much much easier time playing as an Engi or Warrior, and be successful than playing a power ranger. Almost any competent conditions/ celestial spec can eat my power ranger alive if I make one mistake.

I was pointing out why your reply to mine was irrelevant. That’s great for you, power ranger takes hardly any skill and is nowhere near to being as squishy as thief or zerker ele while having a good amount of cc and longest range in game.

Go try one in tournament, you hot-join heroes. Just go try it and see how successful and easy you can be.

Also no Ele run zerker in PVP. Nice try bro, way to show how new you are.
Now I can safely reply you: L2P.

Nice try, but no.

The pro scene is tiny, it’s not an indication. Only a small handful of people bother with PvP long enough to play at that level, which is an indication enough that something is seriously off with how PvP is designed and balanced.

At entry level it makes absolutely no sense. Few people bother to take the time to understand the clusterkitten that is GW2 PvP as a result of this.

It’s not deep or complex like Dota2, just so badly designed that it only makes sense to a select few hardheaded fools who bother to play it long enough.

I genuinely think that Guild Wars 2 is one of the most complex games there is. Sure you can do clutch kitten in Dota 2, however, those clutch plays are just way easier to understand, see, and perform when the game is so simple. Every hero only has a few buttons and one way to move. Guild Wars 2, meanwhile, is much faster paced and therefore much more of a challenging medium to interpret to be able to react in those same clutch moments.

Guild Wars could be at a whole other level of clutch. We are talking -> pin down -> Elidemic cast call! -> epi channel -> fear me -> Epidemic cast. That’s a really fast and clutch play that could devastate a team fight. Yet nobody does this because you can win by just playing better without god tier plays. I would say that Is then just a product of classes being effective and not needing to do these plays and also people just not being good enough at guild wars. There is little drive for the average player to get better. The only reason there are people at the top isn’t because of time played but because of their own motivation to push those boundaries.

You are wrong in your comparison but it doesnt matter in the scope of this discussion.

I think the second paragraph summarizes what’s wrong with PvP right now.

The reason why Dota2 is still more fun to play and more nuanced in terms of gameplay is because the map itself is well designed and the match goes through a number of stages which provide players with a unique set of opportunities to turn the game around. There is also the motivation to do sick plays because the said sick plays are actually effective.

In GW2 you can either do the play you mentioned, or use necro staff 5 or a wolf pet skill. Even if you do, it won’t necessarily be enough and would have no lasting consequence on the remainder of the match or the power level of individual players and the way you deal with them.

Toxsa.2701:

Spirigo.2897:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Shadelang.3012:

Im gonna go on a limb and guess.
One. Your naked or a light armor in zerk
Two. Your opponent. was a 66 longbow build with every available damage multiplier working as well as a good amount of might. (He has 100% endurance. And your being hit from behind=20% damage boost + multiple other damage modifiers)
Three. Your opponent was also complete glass.

What that means is he was running a built fairly similar to the old maul builds that used to be more common. Pop multiple damage modifiers (10% damage from endurance. 10% damage from flanking. 25% from SotW. As well as the signet of the hunt proc all at once) and make sure that one attack hits.

Which means you got wrecked by someone in a literally perfect situation. Im assuming he ganked you. Your probably died at about the same speed you would have if a good thief had ganked you.

That’s not the point. The point is you can do this as a ranger while sitting on the other side of map.

Realisticly it’d only happen in Hot Join zzz.
If a ranger just sit on the other side of map doing his stuffs, he either is a bad ranger, or your team suck and couldn’t force ranger to stand on cap point because all your nodes are being taken by enemies.

Laraley.7695:

I know that recognizing someone is exaggerating from a written text can be difficult, but I imagined this was an easy one.

I don’t need exaggeration. My point is I have a much much easier time playing as an Engi or Warrior, and be successful than playing a power ranger. Almost any competent conditions/ celestial spec can eat my power ranger alive if I make one mistake.

I was pointing out why your reply to mine was irrelevant. That’s great for you, power ranger takes hardly any skill and is nowhere near to being as squishy as thief or zerker ele while having a good amount of cc and longest range in game.

Go try one in tournament, you hot-join heroes. Just go try it and see how successful and easy you can be.

Also no Ele run zerker in PVP. Nice try bro, way to show how new you are.
Now I can safely reply you: L2P.

Nice try, but no.

The pro scene is tiny, it’s not an indication. Only a small handful of people bother with PvP long enough to play at that level, which is an indication enough that something is seriously off with how PvP is designed and balanced.

At entry level it makes absolutely no sense. Few people bother to take the time to understand the clusterkitten that is GW2 PvP as a result of this.

It’s not deep or complex like Dota2, just so badly designed that it only makes sense to a select few hardheaded fools who bother to play it long enough.

If you want to balance anything around Hot-Join, then any build will be OP.
My condition engi is insanely OP in hot-join, and can 1 v 2 most of the time lol.. I really don’t need to use ranger at all.
It’s pointless to argue with blind people.

Except there is no pro scene to balance things off of, and it’s not like A-Net would do that anyway.

The fact of the matter is that only a very tiny proportion of the community takes PvP seriously, because lets face it, it’s a total joke.

To begin with there have to be frequent balance updates to shake things up, and matchmaking should at least be decent.

Conquest is the root of this though.

Want proof that conquest is a dead end gamemode for e-sports? Look at Dominion in LoL. It’s like GW2, where everyone basically starts at max power and holding/capping points determines the winner. Everyone hates that game mode.

All builds that are used right now are OP in one way or another, that’s doesn’t have to be a problem in its own right. The problem is that the mechanics in all those builds are extremely toxic.

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Shadelang.3012:

Im gonna go on a limb and guess.
One. Your naked or a light armor in zerk
Two. Your opponent. was a 66 longbow build with every available damage multiplier working as well as a good amount of might. (He has 100% endurance. And your being hit from behind=20% damage boost + multiple other damage modifiers)
Three. Your opponent was also complete glass.

What that means is he was running a built fairly similar to the old maul builds that used to be more common. Pop multiple damage modifiers (10% damage from endurance. 10% damage from flanking. 25% from SotW. As well as the signet of the hunt proc all at once) and make sure that one attack hits.

Which means you got wrecked by someone in a literally perfect situation. Im assuming he ganked you. Your probably died at about the same speed you would have if a good thief had ganked you.

That’s not the point. The point is you can do this as a ranger while sitting on the other side of map.

Realisticly it’d only happen in Hot Join zzz.
If a ranger just sit on the other side of map doing his stuffs, he either is a bad ranger, or your team suck and couldn’t force ranger to stand on cap point because all your nodes are being taken by enemies.

Laraley.7695:

I know that recognizing someone is exaggerating from a written text can be difficult, but I imagined this was an easy one.

I don’t need exaggeration. My point is I have a much much easier time playing as an Engi or Warrior, and be successful than playing a power ranger. Almost any competent conditions/ celestial spec can eat my power ranger alive if I make one mistake.

I was pointing out why your reply to mine was irrelevant. That’s great for you, power ranger takes hardly any skill and is nowhere near to being as squishy as thief or zerker ele while having a good amount of cc and longest range in game.

Go try one in tournament, you hot-join heroes. Just go try it and see how successful and easy you can be.

Also no Ele run zerker in PVP. Nice try bro, way to show how new you are.
Now I can safely reply you: L2P.

Nice try, but no.

The pro scene is tiny, it’s not an indication. Only a small handful of people bother with PvP long enough to play at that level, which is an indication enough that something is seriously off with how PvP is designed and balanced.

At entry level it makes absolutely no sense. Few people bother to take the time to understand the clusterkitten that is GW2 PvP as a result of this.

It’s not deep or complex like Dota2, just so badly designed that it only makes sense to a select few hardheaded fools who bother to play it long enough.

Power Necro build is funny but they only hit hard in DS or LF both of which are tied to cooldowns and in general Necros are prone to being focused.

Rangers on the other hand… GG 2100 range.

Jelzouki.4128:

Ladies and gentlemen, Vee Wee!

Someone who has claimed to have quit playing this game on multiple forum post, but is somehow still deemed suitable to weigh in on a game he/she doesn’t even play.

And five gauge shreks lots of power necros, may be he didn’t want to engage because it was a part of his strategy??? Like seriously? Every zerker class has random procs. Jesus I hate every single post that comes out of this dudes brain.

Implying there is strategy in GW2 PvP.

Oh wait…

Imagine a new plyer entering a match only to get 100% – 0% by a Ranger auto from across the map.

Don’t even get me started on the options Rangers have to stop you from ever reaching them alive.

And about eating full RF. In a perfect event where eveyone knows to dodge and RF is the only thing worth dodging, yes it’s crap. But in the real world a 1-shot skill should not exist.

I agree with everything you wrote.

What infuriates me so much while playing PvP is that it SHOULD be fun and exciting because of how great the combat is, but is actually totally depressing and infuriating because of how bad the PvP system is.

Are there even any players who bother with PvP long enough to understand it?

Because clearly it’s so frustrating at entry level that people stop taking it seriously and start treating it as a quick way to get some dailies done.

I seem to come across them all the time these days and it’s incredibly frustrating.

This shouldn’t happen. Have a team arena for premades and solo arena for pugs, that way it will be fair.

But the guy in his post is basically right.

Conquest is flawed, and so are the builds.

Bad matchmaking doesn’t help either where players can have a full organized party vs a team of randoms.

Argue all you want but GW2 has by far the worst PvP system of any MMO to date. Everyone agrees.

I’ll keep this brief.

I have yet to see a match where one team isn’t filled completely with a premade guild team.

These teams get paired against pugs.

Obviously pugs autolose.

Because conquest makes zero sense to people who are new to it.

Treat PvP as a way to make dailies quickly, because that’s what it is.

Tbh SW is pretty cool. Players love it.

HoT’s probably going to be a bunch of maps and a astory line leading up to the defeat of Mordremoth. The final battle will most likely be an event introduced at a later stage only to those who got the xpansion.

None of that is the problem.

The problem is that there are a lot of really toxic mechanics at play and conquest is simply an unintuitive game mode where kills are worthless in their own right. Imagine if it only made sense to kill someone in LoL/Doto if they were hugging their tower. It would suck, but thats how conquest is.

Power Rangers really are annoying to play against and so are Mesmers.

Same goes for stealth, Guardian invulnerability chains, the fact that Thieves require an extra set of fingers to play right while a Ranger can do well by pressing 2 buttons, elite skills that lead to insane powerspikes and get-out-of-jail-free mechanics still present on every available map.

It’s not a question of something being OP, but a question of things not being fun to play against. Even though it’s probably not the case, the combat feels like a massive clusterkitten where everyone mindlessly runs around a point while pressing ALL the buttons at random.

OMG! Someone is gating COF P1 with AP and Zerker gear!

I must get mad at them and write about it on the forum despite the fact that there are a dozen non-gated COF P1 parties I could join instead.

o_O

That’s a first…

Hey,

I have a problem where I cant buy story chapters at all.

I dont have anything pending on TP, and still cant.

What I get is a network error.

Can anyone help me out?

On the server I play on 1v1 never happens. For a Guardian it means either go tanky, not die but don’t kill either or go glass and die every time more than one player attacks.

I say some Guardians solo in full zerk and somehow kill stuff, but I can’t pull it off (no clue how to either). Let’s say two Thieves attack you, what do you do? You die.

Christos de Soufre.3802:

If I were you, I’d only use it for group play/commanding at this point. It’s an easy build to move around a map with (high potential Swiftness uptime) and good for staying alive through snipe attempts and overwhelming hostile AoE.

Zerker/DPS builds are certainly more useful for roaming these days. Too many condis.

How do you kill Mesmers as a Guardian in WvW? Because I’m at my wit’s end.

In PvP they are super squishy. I close the gap asap, then keep pressuring them until they run out of tricks and die.

But when I face them in WvW they are so tanky I can barely make a dent in them. Maybe I should go full glass cannon but then I’ll explode in 1vX because Guard has bad disengaging abilities.

So what do? I’m starting to think that this class is just crap at roaming, which would explain why noone roams with it.

In PvE, if you’re into speedclears Mace Shield healway is a no.

If you pug and/or do casual runs with friends Mace Shield healway is the best thing you can run. Your runs will always go smoothly. There will be a couple of things you’d need to dodge but generaly, you’ll be immortal (and your party too, to a degree).

Fight Clockheart with that build, it’s funny.

I wouldn’t take Mace + Shield to WvW because you will have no leap. You can blast water with Mace 3 though.

Mace can also be used with a medi burst build when roaming but to be fair, Guardian is a very weak roaming class because Mesmers are a thing, they are tanky as kitten in WvW and they are EVERYWHERE.

Mikau.6920:

On WvW it dies very easily. And don’t need a zerg for that.

So you whole argument boiled down to “it dies in wvw”.

Well duh. Also every utility apart from syg, htl, pf and the 3 meds are useless.

Promptly learnt that Guardian is the most useless roaming class.

Talking about WvW zerging only here.

Don’t go full Soldier because you will end up with bad sustain and bad damage. Mix and match armor to get 1900+ Power, 18k+ hp, 3000-3200 armor, around 30% crit and around 200% crit damage. You can also make a small investment into healing with this spec. Trait points are 0/0/6/4/4 with AH, 20% cd reduction on shouts and 2H skills, secondary stab. RF as your elite.

OR

Stack full Clerics for maximum Healing Power, take 0/0/4/6/6 with same cd reduction traits, Elite Focus, secondary stab, FoW. Take the healing tome as your ult. What you’ll get is a build focused solely on supporting the blob through near constant stream of massive heals and maximum stability upkeep. Since recent update, Healing Tome makes you and the stuff around you practically immortal.

Always take “Stand Your Ground!”, “Hold The Line!” and Purging Flames in your 789 slots. This is a must for blobbing.Your weapons of choice should be Hammer/Staff. Hammer can be replaced with a GS, but a Staff is a must.

Mikau.6920:

Spirigo.2897:

200% scaling with Healing Power and on a 20 sec CD now. Holy kitten.

Always were 20 sec cooldown. And you can only activate once, twice only with duriton ttrait. Overal, it dies before u can activate again, if not during the 1st activation.

Took it for a stroll today, it never died on me. The heal, as expected, was fantastic.

This game has the biggest difference between forum and in-game opinion I’ve ever seen.

Here you’d think that this is the worst MMO ever created.

In game, when you mention the forums most people will reply with “Pff, kittenfest, ignore it”.

To be fair it’s kid of stupid because on one hand people ask for big changes and on the other, complain when something is changed.

Oh look, another wave of “I quit” people who will be back in a week.

200% scaling with Healing Power and on a 20 sec CD now. Holy kitten.

Hey guys I need some input on a roaming build I theorycrafted recently.

Here is the build: http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQNAR8dlsApdoVDxbI8DRRDRljNYHBHXXe9BkABAA-TxSBABOqEMw9HCTZwDHEAKVXZVlYR8EAKTpBe6G+UlCAuAABAQAu5NzmtZgvbzjezjezSBIoyI-e

In PvP I run pure glass cannon med guard and it works fine, but I don’t think I’ll be able to pull this off in WvW where 3v1 encounters are common and enemies are stronger from buffs/food.

I wanted to make a build that would have strong sustain, condi clear, high hp, moderately high armor and damage.

This is what I came up with, but I’m not sure if I’ve went overboard with certain stats or if they can be balanced more efficiently.