How so? That seems more of a opinion base statement there. It could be just as easy to say that warrior or engineer having condition removal is just dumb, but those exists and have /are getting improvements.
To the one who is saying boon removal is dumb. Okay then, rangers will forever be out of the high tier pvp.
You don’t need boon removal to be high tier.
Last time I checked: Shoutbow, D/D Ele, Medi Guard Hammer, Cele Engineer didn’t have any kind of boon removal and the Boon removal masters: Mesmer and Necros aren’t meta tier.
You’re right, very tough clones would be nasty. So distortion might be the answer.
Better yet, leave the condi clone death or make it baseline. It has never been shown to be OP. The only given reason for removing it is that it annoyed a dev. That simply is not a good reason.
If I were to agree with you making it baseline, It would need an ICD to avoid clone spamming. But good news is that, its still there.
I can see why they would want to get rid of the clone death traits due to wanting Mesmers to use their main mechanic more often and not rely on passive game play. I get it, and I somewhat agree even though the effectiveness of one of my favorite builds will die out.
The only issue I take with this is the fact that clones must be able to survive in order to do dmg. This includes phantasms and the path a clone must take when commanded to shatter. No class suffers more from AOE pressure than ours. AOE guts our dmg significantly, and this is a problem in pvp modes.
SUGGESTION
Keep out the offensive clone death traits. Combine Compounding Celerity & Vigorous Revelation for a new trait: Vigorous Dissipation - Clones apply Vigor (2s) and Swiftness (3s) to nearby allies when they are killed. # of Targets – 5. Radius – 240.
Before, clone death traits would give you an incentive to actually let your clones die. I think going a bit more supportive instead of offensive would be more in line with their ideals and give players less of an incentive to let them die. At the same time, it does cover a major weakness to the Mesmer class by giving you more dodges and the ability to escape a sticky situation.
Afterwards, they can just add vigor onto all shatters with Bountiful Disillusionment, making it even more on par with the boon monsters it’s stealth/interrupt counterparts, PU & CI. Then, they can have another chance at making a more than decent Inspiration trait. How many more chances is it going to take, idk, but I’m willing to give them as many as they need…
Thoughts?
vigor will bring up your endurance after 5 sec (for 1 dodge) its 5 sec you are alone and easy target to die
i say maybe each clone die will bring back 10% endurance so combine with regular endurance refill if 3 clones get killed you have 1 more dodge to create new one
now this must be clone killed and not replaced by new clone
I think the idea on Mail’s suggestion was for team play. So the “alone” argument won’t work. I mean yeah there will be situations when you will be alone, but I like this idea better than spamming condis.
Personally I dislike this idea. Still, the ability to heal from clone death would be pretty nice.
I think that one thing that can be distilled from several related threads of this: Clones die too easily. This fact hampers shatter mesmers.
Two potential paths are available to remedy the issue;
Make the clones tougher or temporarily invulnerable ( as by giving them distortion. This was suggested for phantasms by the devs in the last livestream ).
Let the situation stand as it is, enemies harm themselves by mindlessly destroying clones.
Grouch’s comment that the play style is “unhealthy” has generated a lot of hate. Still, the build has NEVER been shown to be OP.
It’s being removed simply because it annoyed a dev.
I hope you do not get mad, but I will try to explain.
Making clones tougher is hard to balance. how? imagine 3 clones + you doing Staff AA with IE, do you think that would have counterplay?
They will be overloaded with condis (and you with boons) before they can even kill 1 clone.
A mesmer in the mesmer forums just gave a wonderful idea.
So to those all whining about condition clone deaths,
How bout just make it like this, instead of punishing the attacker directly, Make it like this:
Vigorous Dissipation
Grant Vigor to you and your teammates when your clones are killed. 5 seconds ICD. Radius 240. Number of Targets. 5
ICD to prevent spamming.
So yea.
Other examples could be:
Healing Dissipation
Condition Removal Dissipation
You guys get the drill.
That way instead of being passive (like most people say), it would be used wisely like condi removal when you wanna kill it with DE.
The balance would be still fair since, you can never really prevent people from killing your clones, so even if its like that, you will still get the benefit. Also the ICD Prevents the spammy nature that people hate
What do you guys think?
Credits to: MailMail Cho
I don’t get why Condition clone death is unfair in the first place.
I agree with you, add ICD to our current clone death traits and It would be balanced.
BUT.
Mesmer’s already have condition application. Clone death, IE (this alone is strong) Scepter (torment is so strong) MtD, Confusion on shatter, etc.
So clone death traits make these sources stronger, so why not focus it on the other aspects? So we could play support too instead of just focusing on killing people.
A mesmer in the mesmer forums just gave a wonderful idea.
So to those all whining about condition clone deaths,
How bout just make it like this, instead of punishing the attacker directly, Make it like this:
Vigorous Dissipation
Grant Vigor to you and your teammates when your clones are killed. 5 seconds ICD. Radius 240. Number of Targets. 5
ICD to prevent spamming.
So yea.
Other examples could be:
Healing Dissipation
Condition Removal Dissipation
You guys get the drill.
That way instead of being passive (like most people say), it would be used wisely like condi removal when you wanna kill it with DE.
The balance would be still fair since, you can never really prevent people from killing your clones, so even if its like that, you will still get the benefit. Also the ICD Prevents the spammy nature that people hate
How so? That seems more of a opinion base statement there. It could be just as easy to say that warrior or engineer having condition removal is just dumb, but those exists and have /are getting improvements.
To the one who is saying boon removal is dumb. Okay then, rangers will forever be out of the high tier pvp.
I can see why they would want to get rid of the clone death traits due to wanting Mesmers to use their main mechanic more often and not rely on passive game play. I get it, and I somewhat agree even though the effectiveness of one of my favorite builds will die out.
The only issue I take with this is the fact that clones must be able to survive in order to do dmg. This includes phantasms and the path a clone must take when commanded to shatter. No class suffers more from AOE pressure than ours. AOE guts our dmg significantly, and this is a problem in pvp modes.
SUGGESTION
Keep out the offensive clone death traits. Combine Compounding Celerity & Vigorous Revelation for a new trait: Vigorous Dissipation - Clones apply Vigor (2s) and Swiftness (3s) to nearby allies when they are killed. # of Targets – 5. Radius – 240.
Before, clone death traits would give you an incentive to actually let your clones die. I think going a bit more supportive instead of offensive would be more in line with their ideals and give players less of an incentive to let them die. At the same time, it does cover a major weakness to the Mesmer class by giving you more dodges and the ability to escape a sticky situation.
Afterwards, they can just add vigor onto all shatters with Bountiful Disillusionment, making it even mo. Then, they can have another chance at making a more than decent Inspiration trait. How many more chances is it going to take, idk, but I’m willing to give them as many as they need…
Thoughts?
Wow this a good idea, Instead of Punishing them directly, just make them regret it by making us stronger.
All the arming time will do is not make it instant dmg on landing. If you toss it down on open ground it will install active anyone that hits it after .5sec. I do think front loading the dmg and the conditions would be more acceptable then attempting to add immobilize to all traps.
As far as cleaving, stop wasting traps on downed people.
Trapper runes are perfect. We don’t need default stealth on traps lol. Hence the name trapper runes.
No one said I was wasting them, if they did affect downed people it would be great.
I think it would be super cool if pets removed 1 boon on a critical, say every 10 seconds or less. adding this to rending attacks would be practical. rangers don’t have to have the best boon removal in the game, but we need some. even the guard can remove boons with Searing Flames. gaps like these really need to be filled. every profession should be able to do anything if specced appropriately.
Correction, we really don’t have anything to begin with
Someone builds around being immune to mobility reduction conditions, hard countering your trap snares, and you want to punish people who don’t even more? Lol why not just add 3sec stun to all traps, I would have suggested 2sec but people can build to be resistent to stun…
So whats a good idea then? I mean some traps you could just walk away from them.
Frost trap chills
Spike trap cripples
viper nest should some day cause slow turtle debuff?
Fire trap is fine as its spamy
They are stacking all the trap traits together and whatever doesn’t fit is becoming default. I don’t see all traps applying immobilize happening. When a trap triggers it immediately applies 1 tic so it does do something. Maybe they could front load more of the traps effects to first tic?
The problem with trait trap altho its a great trap is that, yes it does immobilize, but the trap itself does not pulse.
The cripple and chills are too meh.. Why?
Dogged march, leg mods, the ele one, etc. +melandru with that.
Ofc turret engi and power rangers (maybe also power necro) arent meta, but complaints about them doesnt come because they would be top tier but rather because they have lame mechanics. Turret engis had AI and power rangers have lame fast shooting bow. Both engi AI and Bow do too much for skill invested. Its just some wild anet design choice to make classes more viable trough lame stuff. And maybe many ppl would agree that normalising the bow and buffing other parts of ranger could be better choice, not just nerfing stuff to the ground.
Is Turret Engie just the problem for engies? Even cele engies do a lot just for spamming grenades. They have to much CC, blocks, etc.
I just find it weird that engies like some of the posters here are complaining while their class technically have a lot of the stuff better than rangers.
And guess what? The upcoming changes for engies are just WOW.
Grab reflect and let them eat the rapid fire,or they knock themselves back,or you can steal their lb 3 stealth which is the most fun imo.
Because every build has reflects that are viable and have 8sec cd?
LB Power Rangers need toning down. I’m against high burst builds period.
Tell to that to your engie class, what do you get for the changes? A lot of good stuff right?
I wish rangers were also meta like your engies. You wish to tone down a class that is not even a part of the meta? LOL.
If the range was 1200 and you could be equally hit it wouldn’t be as bad. But, Rangers can get terrain advantages and simply camp LB from safety. That situation has to go bye bye. Then remove some of the vulnerability too. Applying 15 stacks in a couple of seconds is too much as well.
btw, I have 3 Rangers as well. I’m simply stating what needs to be toned down for balance.
How bout balancing rangers to be in par with Meta classes?
Terrain advantages? Isn’t that supposed to be ranger’s are about?
You can still LOS rapid fire or any of the 4 LB attacks for that matter?
Dodges and LOS are AVAILABLE TO ALL CLASSES, NO MECHANIC NEEDED. So you have 2 counters already.
+1 if you bring a block (I’m sure most engies have it)
+1 If you pull them closer (which I’m sure classes have it to one way or the other)
+1 if you can interrupt RF channel (I’m sure most classes can avail of this too)
+1 if you have reflect (not all classes have it, but you get that point)
+1 if you run condies (almost all LB zerk rangers have 0 or 1 cleanse)
So What is the matter?
I would take on a pew pew any day than any engie build (which has condies, nades, pulls, blocks, turrets)
PS: YOU CAN DODGE FORWARD TOWARDS THE RANGER TO BREAK THE GAP AND START FROM THERE
I think this is really is an L2P issue, complaining about 1 weapon set in a Class’ kitten nal and Mehcanic
But if we are going to have res traits, they really need to bring something substantial to the table in regards to creating viable support builds.
I do agree but not all of them are lackluster too. The mesmer’s Medics Feedback is kinda nice specially when traited with blinds.
So you get reflects for ranged people and blind on melee people while ressing, On top of your invulns and stealths and couple that with runes of mercy.
The ranger one on the other hand is crap, if you also take in the consideration of the current status of traps.
Next one, the swiftness one, Why the hell would I want Swiftness to revive someone if You are on point.
It’s not reasonable to ban my play style simply because it annoys a dev. As to the shatter mechanic being the theme of Mesmer…. It’s the fault of the devs that the clones are unreasonably weak and target poorly.
Shatter is not played as much as it could be in PvP for a simple reason: It’s too difficult and unreliable to work well.
I do get your point, I used to run a condirupt clone death build, and it wasn’t passive.
People here on the forums always say, “nerf passive” crap, but I bet you those people who act like elitist jerks, majority of those are trash too in pvp. So ignore them.
PS: I’m assuming you are a she because of the Silmarion reference on your name.
Mental Torment/GS training/Power block all seem really strong
I really like how they added mirror into a variety of traits
Manipulation range + IP will be amazing
Still no reliable condi removal in trees other than in inspiration
The trait I’m most excited for is blinding dissipation.
I think the illusions tree could be improved with illusionary invigoration.
Overall, I’m extremely excited with the mesmer changes
Power block revised? Will it work against Thieves and revenants?
Nah, but fused it with Halting Strike and buffed CD it puts on skills to 15.
I feel DE was done in such a way given how they seemed to want to buff Phantasms, thus feeling different builds could take Mistrust or Harmonious Mantras if built towards phantasms more than shattering.
Although on contrary to popular belief, I would say DE in GM is a good trait to bring phantasms or other types of builds into the limelight.
1- Mesmer Dueling Minor – Confusing Combatants – You and your illusions inflict confusion when YOU critical hit. So for example if you have three clones out and you critical hit, do your illusions inflict confusion as well?
2- Mesmer illusions – Grandmaster – Could anyone elaborate in detail how they improve your shatters?
3- Mesmer illusions – Malicious Sorcery – If you were to pick up this trait but not wield a scepter, would you still receive a bonus to torment damage vs moving targets?
Thanks ahead of time
Countless
1.) I believe this acts like Sharper Images. Only difference is this now affects you too.
2.) Each shatter is improved, Mind wrack gets that 10% crit rate trait, Confusing Cry (Still dont know since they removed retal) f3 gets imbued diversion trait f4 gets masterful reflection. so yea.
3.) I would believe so. Because those 2 effects function independently of each other. It just happens that scepter has torment so yea.
Why does the illusion traitline seem more condi focused….Right now I’m looking at the Master traits and there’s nothing there I would like if I went power shatter, what gives?
Yes I agree which kinda sucks, but mind you, the illusions trait was a Condi Damage trait line to begin with before.
That sounds fine and all..until I saw that DE became a grandmaster for that traitline, obviously shatter specs will need to go through this traitline now, so basically, power shatt gets some useless condi traits =/
But I’m glad IP is innate now, it’ll give me a chance to remake Shatterlock, hopefully!
DE is in dueling which looks like it will be great for either power or condi shatter.
Oh wow, I’m blind, my bad lol. Although, can anyone expand on what that Master of Fragmentation GM trait on Illusions is?
When I think about this trait my mind doesn’t jump to double rapid fire because you mainly swap weapons on CD in smaller fights, not camping in lb in team fights. Also, considering how much this trait line synergizes with the new marksmanship line I’d be inclined to take both of those, which means call of the wild for free very 30s (blast finisher) as well as guaranteed crits from opening strike and a way to regain them (wep swap for fury). Therefore, to make full use of these traits I would want to might stack, and use some of the strongest skills in smaller fights (because that favors more weapon swaps) which in my mind are Maul, Bonfire, and Split blade. Therefore, with this I could constantly swap between GS and A/T to get fury, guaranteed mauls crits, might stacking, and condi damage. Seems like the best of everything.
Why does the illusion traitline seem more condi focused….Right now I’m looking at the Master traits and there’s nothing there I would like if I went power shatter, what gives?
Yes I agree which kinda sucks, but mind you, the illusions trait was a Condi Damage trait line to begin with before.
