Guild Wars 2

LughLongArm.5460:

My biggest concern is that both our big condi removal traits are on the same trait line, both GM traits so we cant pick them both any more. except for the GM traits, Wilderness Survival is not that amazing, new bark skin feels wrong.

Altho if you trait SoTF TU will now remove condies too. And a lower cd on top of that. Bark skin is garbage now.

@OP

Stop posting this emo threads, here and the mesmer forums.

You sound like a thief.

/emo /slitwrist

Ross Biddle.2367:

StickerHappy.8052:

Ross Biddle.2367:

StickerHappy.8052:

Too bad Thieves are still powerblock proof.
Revenant will be next in line for power block proofing.

Irrelevant if you’ve got CS and CI mixed in to the same build. Power Block is also Halting Strike, and weakness. Which will hit thieves hard. So the PB timer might not effect Thieves 0 cd skills, but the rest of it will hurt.

I get your point ross, but what I dont get is why still exclude classes on a GM trait?

I’m not sure. The wisdom of the masses (ill use the term wisdom loosly when it comes to thief players :p ) is that it’d impact the class mechanic to harshly.

That said, I should add, rupting other classes skills into a 15s cd is to hard to pass up.

Hmm..the masses… hahaha. When you try to visit the forums, thieves still act disappointed with the changes they will get even though a lot of them are great.

/slitwrist /emo LOL.

Ross Biddle.2367:

StickerHappy.8052:

Too bad Thieves are still powerblock proof.
Revenant will be next in line for power block proofing.

Irrelevant if you’ve got CS and CI mixed in to the same build. Power Block is also Halting Strike, and weakness. Which will hit thieves hard. So the PB timer might not effect Thieves 0 cd skills, but the rest of it will hurt.

I get your point ross, but what I dont get is why still exclude classes on a GM trait?

Confusion got a buff if anyone of you noticed.

Too bad Thieves are still powerblock proof.
Revenant will be next in line for power block proofing.

Even mesmer which dev mains it?

Is this the reason why certain classes get buffed and others are on the lower end of the spectrum?

Is there any Threshold for GS4 to activate the kick?

Sometimes I can block numerous AAs at melee range before I kick them, but High Damage attacks like BS and what not, it only takes 1 attack to proc the kick.

messiah.1908:

StickerHappy.8052:

And for you sir, Try dueling better players, Players you usually faceroll in solo q are nothing compared to good players.

When you duel/face someone really skilled, you will know the difference.

i go for ranked and unranked fight mainly with pugs or 1-4 guildies. what ever the game trough at me i fight him. all my video were ranked and not hot join. when we lose it mostly cause of bad rotation or bad communication with the pugs

Ranked is full of bad players too. Tell you what, ican give you players you can duel and test your skill out.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Sube Dai.8496:

Boon removal for pets is nice, albeit a bit unreliable…

Would make a support/bm ranger pretty handy though.

It would be magic if you could change pet stats too. Boon removal on crit, on a Spider with Assassin’s stats.

I wonder if they could just make each pet melee skill a PBAoE, unless its a leap, and give them +20% base speed, that would probably fix that.

Trying messaging a dev with your idea, If they haven’t seen the thread.

I NEED SOMETHING NEW TO DO WITH MY PET.

messiah.1908:

so basically no condi class can be in the meta comp in higher tier

I mean kinda, but depends on the enemy comp, but with the current meta, there will be those classes for sure. I barely see a pure condi class on the recent ones, if there was (I think NoS played condi necro on one of the matches) and got rekt, we could blame the current state of necro, but I think it is only part of it.

I mean DPS (guard, thief, mesmer/ranger)is still the most efficient way so thats one thing, but the other part of those comps are mostly cele, (engi, warrior, ele) which does not generally rely on condis (although they are part) because both their Direct damage and Condis are directly amplified by might and might stacking (which these classes have a lot of fire fields and blast finishers to capitalize on that)

So those above classes, even though there is rampant cleanses going around, might also boosts their DD, so part their damage still manages to go through, thats what makes them efficient. This is just the offense side of the story, cele classes also benefit from the other stats, like vit and toughness, healing power making them really durable to hold a point ON TOP of being able to do damage.

So on our mesmer dilemma, we can’t do that, since we lack those mentioned above (boon stacking, fields, finishers) going full condi will also lose you:

• Evade/Burst from Blurred Frenzy, although if you had sword, would still be useless since you lack the power stat, so blurred will be just for defense mainly
• On Demand Distortion/Daze from IP = Survivability/Safe Stomps/Res
• Shatter on crucial if you choose IE
• No kiting potential on the other weapon set making you vulnerable and hard to position ( You don’t want yourself to be AAing in Scepter)
• You can kite with Staff, but most likely you will have IE traited for max damage output, making you Lose Illus. Invig
• Shatters will hit lower than power because of the lack of power stat (again no reliable might generation to compensate
• No Ileap/Immob to make your team land bursts, and you yourself too.
• Can trait Port (So Im guessing Blink, Decoy are the next two)

So… Above are only a few pros and cons.

So let me ask you, you can try Carrion, but the bottom line is, everything you can do a power shatter can do better. So yeah.

I guess that’s it, if anyone knows I made a mistake on my posts or missed something please feel free to correct me.

Bottomline, even with the MtD buff, with the current state of this meta, I think it is hard or close to impossible to utilize MtD against organized Comps.
Again this not to say MtD is not viable, it Is in our current tiers, the usual ranked/unranked ques.

And for you sir, Try dueling better players, Players you usually faceroll in solo q are nothing compared to good players.

When you duel/face someone really skilled, you will know the difference.

2nd Point:

Flipping Condis

Necros, Sigil of generosity, and fellow mesmers (If someone actually brings AT because mtD became meta)

Your burst can be easily be flipped back to you, AT the Same time, majority of MtD builds only bring limited cleanses.

You will be forced to use your cleanse, on your own attack which could spell trouble for you since you can’t evade on time if ever unlike ranger (who has a lot of inherent dodges), You also do not have IP for that on demand Distortions, You might not have Illusionary Invigoration too, since I will be guessing you have IE, no ports either.

If you go full condi, you will be using scepter for sure, which don’t do anything for teamfights, which also pales in comparison with GS since you have Boon Rip AoE, An Interrupt, A Cleave Phantasm, and you can Kite At range keeping you more alive.

Then, you won’t have any cleanses left for the upcoming counter attack too.

My above points is EXCLUDING all other people focusing you which means more trouble.

Again I think the problem is the current meta we have, all this condi cleanses going on, I am also forced to think my Trap Ranger has no place in tourneys

messiah.1908:

Supcutie.2538:

@messiah
Any Mesmer build that is half decent will work if you are a good player at all skill levels except the very top. I’ve never had a problem with >99% of players in solo queue and most team queues (except the higher end scrims) with non shatter builds (other than maybe PU because it lacks some proactive damage), like mtd for example.

There are three problems with mtd that basically make it not work (at higher levels):
1. It relies heavily on clones shattering – This is bad because If you are in a place of good positioning, your clones will never get to your target. They’ll have to walk around the backside of keep and despawn, or they’ll walk all the way around clocktower and despawn. In addition, clones will shatter on the nearest enemy. So this makes landing damage on the intended target far less reliable than power shatter with greatsword.
2. It is literally hard countered by generosity sigil. People don’t run it now but I guarantee you if mtd became meta and there were Mesmers on more teams, tons of people would run it, and it severely hinders the spec.
3. Because your damage is less reliable in a team fight, you might be saying “oh I should be the 1v1er or in smaller engagements.” This is also not good because you don’t survive in a 1v2 better than war, ele, or engi, so you become a liability that can be avoided/minimized by playing another spec in another role.
Besides, if you are good enough you can win almost every 1v1 except vs. Thieves and some DPS Guards as power shatter anyway, so if you are forced into that situation you might as well just be power shatter so you can help your team elsewhere more effectively.

Also I wanted to add that I tested mtd pretty extensively and I do have to say that its burst is arguably more than power shatter in the 2-5 second range, if you can get it all off on one person. Shatter obviously does more instantly but when you fully stack torment, confusion and the other condis, people melt insanely fast in the following seconds. (I’m talking like if you can get the 20+ torment up)

THANKS!
regarding positioning – i will try to positioning myself in a spot where my clone will get shattered. also while in safe spot i create clones with scepter at target location while lets say i regen myself. although its bit slow. so i dont play like power shatter who needs a safe spot to do his #4+#2+#1 rather on point or around it. but your point is correct while in safe spot my dmg is about only AA form staff bouncing which can be annoying burning and bleeding mainly.
regarding shatter the nearest enemy – yes big problem when your team wants the burst someone all together. i see my role as harassing the cele meta like ele engi and back liner like ranger and necro. if my team need burst i have to reposition myself for successful burst. thus also i look for bunch of enemies to shatter around them like in downstate or supporting each other thus even when clones die the do some dmg with bleeding weakness etc.
generosity – kitten kitten kitten . really need to check this out thus i need to lure the sigil also to proc on low condi stacks. or even take it myself to transfer it back
if i am on 1v1 and it become 1v2 beside ele and warrior should my team try to support me. as in almost any 1v2 situation its a sure kill unless you run off point.

good points to consider.

but if all is good why this build can handle the lower tiers? is it just because ppl are bad players ?

If I may answer your last question, organized teams have a lot of condi cleanses going around, and this not just random cleanses, they will cleanse on needed times like at the moment when you just stacked up that 14 stacks of torment.

How?

1st Point

D/D eles in water can basically nullify your burst, cleansing wave + just attuning into water (traited). This is even without Evasive Arcana.

Shoutbow war, another common comp, will just remove your torment/ confusion with 1 shout. Low cd too. They usually have 3 shouts. At the same time the traited focus.

DPS Guard traited into virtues removes 3 condis on f2, Heals AoE too.
And..Bunk/Support Guard is another matter for that.

All of the stuff I listed is AoE cleanses.

This is EXCLUDING your target’s personal cleanse if he/she has it.

Again MtD will usually use Rabid, making shatters really weak, if you plan to use Carrion, you will be squishy (meaning you get focused and die)and with that fact, you might as well be playing Power Shatter.

ASP.8093:

Wow, so Generosity really takes the fattest stack? That’s pretty amazing.

A lot of the power of MtD is the combination of Confusion and Torment. Generosity popping off either one right back at you is pretty brutal.

Again I am not sure as of now, Last time we tested it did.

Scapegoat.6215:

It seems you are correct just tested it myself to confirm, didn’t notice that before..

In any case I do have permanent vigor up time on my mes utilizing both of those vigor traits, granted it might not be as easy to maintain, it is still possible.

Yeap i do agree, but the hard part of it is when to shatter for defense or for offense to make the trait extremely effecient

Scapegoat.6215:

It’s up to 15 seconds per shatter, not including Illusionary Persona or w/e it’s called, without an ICD. DE allows faster spawning of clones, and in order to get DE you also will have the Vigor on crit trait. Basically it just allows you to get more illusions out faster, which will in turn make it a lot easier for the permanent up time.

The trait only procs per shatter, illusions and IP do not count. So even if you have 3 illusions out, the trait will only give 5 seconds of vigor per shatter

Scapegoat.6215:

Just gonna throw this out there:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vigorous_Revelation

That trait will allow permanent vigor on a Mes, especially when combined with Deceptive Evasion.

What does DE have to do with it? And its not perma in a sense since you wont be using shatters just for vigor.

Gotejjeken.1267:

SB mathematically scales a bit better with power on the autos than GS. It in no way out damages it in cleave situations or if you factor in Maul.

Scales better? How? Tried slotting zerk amy. Sb aa does 205 with 1.8k power while gs aa does 405 with the same stats.

Just a question to all folks here,

Why do people say SB otudamages GS? how does that happen?

apharma.3741:

Can we please stop with this “eles have all these boons in spades” talk as it is only partially true. Yes, they can have high protection, regen and vigor uptime but it requires a number of traits to keep it up. By my count it requires a major (possibly 2) master and 3 major adept traits to get constant of all 3 as well as utilising combo fields, leaps and timing of auras.

You could run a fresh air build like that but chances are you’d be picking up more omfg save me traits like final shielding and you can’t choose both vigor on crit and final shielding otherwise you miss out on elemental attunement.

Yes Mesmer has been nerfed too much but I still stand by my original statement. The problem is deceptive evasion requiring dodges and thus vigor to generate clones not the vigor uptime. Come up with a non OP on demand clone generator trait which doesn’t need dodges and you may not miss vigor on crit.

Ele (d/d cele) is broken as hell though, no whining here, just #realtalk.
And i disagree with your statement with the partially being true.

Eles also have high might uptime from fire fields and blast finishers they have, Pair that up with battle sigils or hoelbrak runes.

Armor of earth gives you prot stab with both 7.5 seconds. Traited with an adept major trait.

Thats only 1 trait. now pair that with elemental attunement.

2 traits with high boon uptime, + cele stats (Makes you utilize all pros of those boons)

But again this is D/D ele only

Supcutie.2538:

@messiah
Any Mesmer build that is half decent will work if you are a good player at all skill levels except the very top. I’ve never had a problem with >99% of players in solo queue and most team queues (except the higher end scrims) with non shatter builds (other than maybe PU because it lacks some proactive damage), like mtd for example.

There are three problems with mtd that basically make it not work (at higher levels):
1. It relies heavily on clones shattering – This is bad because If you are in a place of good positioning, your clones will never get to your target. They’ll have to walk around the backside of keep and despawn, or they’ll walk all the way around clocktower and despawn. In addition, clones will shatter on the nearest enemy. So this makes landing damage on the intended target far less reliable than power shatter with greatsword.
2. It is literally hard countered by generosity sigil. People don’t run it now but I guarantee you if mtd became meta and there were Mesmers on more teams, tons of people would run it, and it severely hinders the spec.
3. Because your damage is less reliable in a team fight, you might be saying “oh I should be the 1v1er or in smaller engagements.” This is also not good because you don’t survive in a 1v2 better than war, ele, or engi, so you become a liability that can be avoided/minimized by playing another spec in another role.
Besides, if you are good enough you can win almost every 1v1 except vs. Thieves and some DPS Guards as power shatter anyway, so if you are forced into that situation you might as well just be power shatter so you can help your team elsewhere more effectively.

Also I wanted to add that I tested mtd pretty extensively and I do have to say that its burst is arguably more than power shatter in the 2-5 second range, if you can get it all off on one person. Shatter obviously does more instantly but when you fully stack torment, confusion and the other condis, people melt insanely fast in the following seconds. (I’m talking like if you can get the 20+ torment up)

If I can add something, me and Tek were Testing generosity sigil a month ago, it transfers the highest stack of conditions the target has, so it is not necessarily Torment.
If it is Mes vs Mes of course this would be Torment from the scept 2 + mtD. But there was an instance that I had a higher number of confusion stacks on him than torment, and it transferred confusion not torment

I do not know if this is still the case now, if you you are saying torment takes priority in transfers. So maybe it might have changed or not yet.

jcbroe.4329:

I’ve actually been splitting the difference in WvW and running 6/5/3/0/0. Obviously a huge difference between WvW and PvP, but I haven’t messed around with the new Hide in Plain Sight yet enough to know how truly helpful it is.

My most pressing question; how helpful is it against “typical” bad situations with thieves jumping you (Guard won’t trigger it unless you walk into the ring or they banish you?)?

Is it worth dropping the 10% flanking damage for?

I must say it is a really good trait to have for a reasonable 30 cd. Imo I would rather get it over the Shared Anguish Trait but that trait happens to be an Adept Major only. But HiPS is really good try it. Saved my kitten a lot in PvP.

Imo, This works great with BS, during those clutch moments when they wanna kill you for having low hp, so they CC you (HiPS proc) then BS also proc making you survive just in time for the Clutch Troll Unguent. It is really fun IMO.

Gotejjeken.1267:

If we are talking about flanking, then we should be talking about extra damage if you hit from the back. You know, like backstab.

It’s really threads like this why nothing will ever change. We have some people talking about WvW, some PvP, some PvE, some say the bow is fine, some want it changed…

So Anet, taking the path of no resistance, will leave it.

For now, I think I’m taking GS over SB, even for a hybrid build. They have very similar functions save for the #2 skill, and GS #3 blows SB #3 out of the water.

There is a trait that increases flanking damage. Altho you have to trait for it.

Eurantien.4632:

StickerHappy.8052:

jcbroe.4329:

StickerHappy.8052:

jcbroe.4329:

StickerHappy.8052:

Jroh, did durzlla told you about the build yesterday?…?

Yeah, well, kind of. This is the exact response (removed name and time stamps):

I know it was celestial, I know it was SB, LB, I know I had Entangle, LR, a brown bear + fernhound, and I know I had the bleeds on crit trait in skirm, probably had 30 in BM for QZ on swap
I’d guess I also had flame trap (no traits for traps), lower CDs on bows, traveler runes and protect me
Healing spring was definitely the heal
Probably had 20 in WS and took vigorous healers celerity and hide in plain sight/vigorous renewal
LB probably had sig of air and earth and SB probably had sig of earth and hydromancy

Knowing him, this seems fairly accurate, and I wouldn’t even begin to discuss the efficiency of the choices with him if you asked me to, because he’s always right hahaha. Not worth the struggle.

Was this pvp? Lol

Yeah lol. Those pet choices were/are choices he runs religiously, and he’s been advocating for Mercy runes since pretty much launch (which would couple with his healer’s celerity choice I believe). He (and to some degree if pets were reliable and bears would use their F2 on you and not the enemy, I can see it) swears by only needing the cleanse on brown bear and healing spring and that it’s more than enough healing.
He probably had Signet of Renewal as well though, I noticed the 3rd utility slot was missing.

I mean, hey, I’m just the messenger here lol. I just know he swears up and down that you don’t have to play anything considered “meta” and that most meta players are sheep that you can easily beat by just outplaying them.

Oh i agree whole heartedly with the meta sheep comment. So if I might ask you, is there any reason to take healing/condition damage based f2s for pets? If they have 0 condi damage/ healing power stat to begin with? (Even with traited, 350 flat bonus, and a waste of trait options)

Nope, Fern hound is terrible. Would you rather have 1.3k heal that covers your own possibly higher healing power regen from healing spring? Or would you rather just mitigate all that damage with a fear or immob instead?

Brown bear is alright. That condi clear is decent.

Okay Mr Eura, I would assume there is really no reason for other pets for PvP other than dog and wolf right? (which i also use most of the time)

Any other people think this worth taking for PvP?

jcbroe.4329:

StickerHappy.8052:

jcbroe.4329:

StickerHappy.8052:

Jroh, did durzlla told you about the build yesterday?…?

Yeah, well, kind of. This is the exact response (removed name and time stamps):

I know it was celestial, I know it was SB, LB, I know I had Entangle, LR, a brown bear + fernhound, and I know I had the bleeds on crit trait in skirm, probably had 30 in BM for QZ on swap
I’d guess I also had flame trap (no traits for traps), lower CDs on bows, traveler runes and protect me
Healing spring was definitely the heal
Probably had 20 in WS and took vigorous healers celerity and hide in plain sight/vigorous renewal
LB probably had sig of air and earth and SB probably had sig of earth and hydromancy

Knowing him, this seems fairly accurate, and I wouldn’t even begin to discuss the efficiency of the choices with him if you asked me to, because he’s always right hahaha. Not worth the struggle.

Was this pvp? Lol

Yeah lol. Those pet choices were/are choices he runs religiously, and he’s been advocating for Mercy runes since pretty much launch (which would couple with his healer’s celerity choice I believe). He (and to some degree if pets were reliable and bears would use their F2 on you and not the enemy, I can see it) swears by only needing the cleanse on brown bear and healing spring and that it’s more than enough healing.
He probably had Signet of Renewal as well though, I noticed the 3rd utility slot was missing.

I mean, hey, I’m just the messenger here lol. I just know he swears up and down that you don’t have to play anything considered “meta” and that most meta players are sheep that you can easily beat by just outplaying them.

Oh i agree whole heartedly with the meta sheep comment. So if I might ask you, is there any reason to take healing/condition damage based f2s for pets? If they have 0 condi damage/ healing power stat to begin with? (Even with traited, 350 flat bonus, and a waste of trait options)

jcbroe.4329:

StickerHappy.8052:

Jroh, did durzlla told you about the build yesterday?…?

Yeah, well, kind of. This is the exact response (removed name and time stamps):

I know it was celestial, I know it was SB, LB, I know I had Entangle, LR, a brown bear + fernhound, and I know I had the bleeds on crit trait in skirm, probably had 30 in BM for QZ on swap
I’d guess I also had flame trap (no traits for traps), lower CDs on bows, traveler runes and protect me
Healing spring was definitely the heal
Probably had 20 in WS and took vigorous healers celerity and hide in plain sight/vigorous renewal
LB probably had sig of air and earth and SB probably had sig of earth and hydromancy

Knowing him, this seems fairly accurate, and I wouldn’t even begin to discuss the efficiency of the choices with him if you asked me to, because he’s always right hahaha. Not worth the struggle.

Was this pvp? Lol

Cufufalating.8479:

Genuinely not sure why you think the Mesmer Scepter has good power scaling.

I mean sure it has decent coefficients, but concidering the SB attacks well over twice as fast, the SB blows the Mesmer Scepter right out of the water in terms of direct damage.

It doesnt. The scepter 3 skill scales really well with power. AA is out of the question because it sucks and 2 is a block. I know this is a dumb comparison but if the AA was good it will blow out SB out of the water assuming you get all hits for scepter 3. Also if 2 isnt a block. It gets to hit for 4k to 5k iirc full zerk.

My point is.,SB could use some love when it comes to scaling too.

At the same time mesmer scepter has only 3 skills too compared to our SB which has 5

Jroh, did durzlla told you about the build yesterday?…?

Cufufalating.8479:

Sebrent.3625:

They are already getting twice the bleed per auto-attack as Ranger shortbow but without requiring flanking. I don’t see why we couldn’t have our bleed, which is half the duration of theirs, without the flanking requirement

You pretty much answered your own question when you worked out the SBs DPS earlier. The Ranger SB is not a condition weapon, it’s a hybrid weapon.

The Engineers pistol or Necromancers Scepter or Eles Dagger / Scepter.. they do put on much longer bleeds with no flanking but they do truely aweful direct damage. It’s because they are full on condition weapons whereas the Ranger SB just isnt. It’s a hybrid weapon so of course it doesn’t do conditions as well.

The exception here is the Warriors sword which does both insanely well. I suppose ANet sees that as balanced by the fact it’s a melee weapon. Personally I am not convinced it’s entirely balance but thats a problem with their sword not our SB.

Also, it is a fair comment that Rangers actually do lack a condition-only MH weapon. We only have the Axe and SB, both of which I would class as hybrids rather than purely condition based. So in that sense I see where you’re all coming from in wanting more from the SB, but it’s not because the SB is broken at the moment.. it’s because it was never designed to be the pure condition weapon you all want.

If I were you, I’d look at getting the MH axe AA changed instead… You could drops it’s power coefficent right down (because who actually cares about it anyway) and maybe make it apply torment of the first hit, bleed on the second and weakness on the final bounce. Or something. Something to make it the condition weapon you all want rather than a slightly awkward hybrid. The Axe is a far better candidate for going condition-only than the SB.

You are forgetting mesmer scepter which is considered to be a hybrid weapon, only difference is it scales really well with power stat too, our SB doesn’t.

Scoobaniec.9561:

style.6173:

In case you all didn’t want the ANET team playing yesterday…. the leader of the ANET GW2 team (Colin) plays a turret engi. Don’t expect to see it nerfed.

Any vid/ss for a proof? ;o

I think grouch plays engie too

Yes make it the same as the canine howls. Please.

Eurantien.4632:

StickerHappy.8052:

jcbroe.4329:

Eurantien.4632:

Trap builds don’t win 1v1s. And there is little mobility or survivability in bigger fights. I think mobility is huge Jebroe, being able to rotate fast wins games. As for using healing spring over troll, it is an option, not my preferred one though. In the end, we can’t do it all so we have to sacrifice a little, what I suggested is an attempt to 1v1 and do a little bit in team fights in terms of being on point, frame cleave, might stacks, etc.

I definitely get what you’re saying, I just wanted to make sure you were sold on mobility being more important than fighting potential.

I’ll have the opportunity to play around more with what you linked tonight.

I whole heartedly disagree with the fact that traps dont win 1v1s.

I respect your opinion but I just can’t imagine a scenario where I could ever 1v1 Tarcis or Phantaram (with them on meta builds) with a trap build. There is no defense, no sustain, and the damage is easily mitigated.

Hmm.. I usually do great against eles. Don’t mean to brag but im quite decent at ranger, just a thought how do you play as a trap ranger? I only saw you playing power spec.

jbondo.9817:

I am irritated by the lack of solo queue, but I’ve won against many premades, and I don’t think that’s really a problem. Bad players can form a premade.

I think I’m more disappointed in the lack of balance that this game has. Right now it’s clear Engineers are the clear favorite, if you run 3 turret engis in a match against a bunch of pugs which is technically the leaderboard right now, you’ll win 90% of the matches.

It’s frustrating because of the lack off effort of any person that plays that build, and the amount of effort it takes to beat it only to have the guy respawn 15s later to repeat the same process.

And the MMR is complete garbage. I think it’s ridiculous that even if you get a high MMR A-net has decided that you’ll have to carry a bunch of noobs to victory, and against any decent team 1 person can not carry the whole team even if they were Five Gauge (I’ve seen him carry on his stream, but even to a point he can’t save every team).

This game is not only broken in pvp, but broken in PvE. I can’t count the number of exploits, and honestly the RNG is a little bit garbage considering I’ve gotten 3 Fractal weapons in ~400 runs (that’s less than .01% by the way).

So yeah I don’t expect HoT to be that great, and I’m sure Revnant will be OP for the first couple of months until A-net decides to balance that or makes enough money from the x-pac.

Feedback is weak from the dev side.
Class favorites always the same. Engi warrior ele thief. Balnce updates is whack. And the list goes on and on

jcbroe.4329:

Sebrent.3625:

Sorry … almost 30 and 3 kids is sucking my braincells :-p

• It used Celestial
• It used Longbow + Shortbow
• I think the traits were similar to the build used in that video you linked as it had at least 4 in Skirmishing for 20% bow cooldown reduction and at least 4 in Marksman for Piercing Arrows so that players couldn’t hide from your shots behind minions/others.
• Quite positive about it having those points in Skirmishing due to good uptime on Fury+Swiftness from weapon swapping.

I want to say that it was perhaps a 4/4/0/6/0 … but I thought I also remembered it having 3 in WS for Protection on-dodge … obviously can’t have both.

I’ll go ahead and ask him on Skype for you guys.

Thank you jeyroh, pls do post it here if he ever replies.

jcbroe.4329:

Eurantien.4632:

Trap builds don’t win 1v1s. And there is little mobility or survivability in bigger fights. I think mobility is huge Jebroe, being able to rotate fast wins games. As for using healing spring over troll, it is an option, not my preferred one though. In the end, we can’t do it all so we have to sacrifice a little, what I suggested is an attempt to 1v1 and do a little bit in team fights in terms of being on point, frame cleave, might stacks, etc.

I definitely get what you’re saying, I just wanted to make sure you were sold on mobility being more important than fighting potential.

I’ll have the opportunity to play around more with what you linked tonight.

I whole heartedly disagree with the fact that traps dont win 1v1s.

Cmon stop this thread. LB really works well against engies, and the OP happens to be one.

Coincidence? I think not.

To be honest, its engies that need rework not rangers.

Sebrent.3625:

Thanks. Since it’s using berzerker, I have to say no, but I’m wanting to try that build out now :-p

It does feel like it’s close to what I recall Durzlla using back then.

Do you know any more details Bout durz’ build? Maybe we can piece it together

Gern.2978:

StickerHappy.8052:

Gern.2978:

Sebrent.3625:

Arc Lightning. It is a constant … as opposed to a 2.5s channel that can be cast every 8 to 10s at most … so 10.5 to 12.5s. It’s not interrupted by their other damage which has no telegraph and simply smacks you in the face.

It also stacks with their abundance of ways to proc on-crit.

Let’s look back at counters to Rapid Fire:

• Daze
• Stun
• LOS
• Block
• Reflect
• Dodge
• Invuln

Plenty of ways to mitigate Rapid Fire. We don’t need to add “move slightly to the side” to this list.

A buddy of mine was trying Dagger+Pistol Thief. He didn’t know what to do about Rapid Fire at first and died to it quite a bit. Then I pointed out to him that his #4 is an interrupt and it was never an issue again. Add to that that his Steal dazes and it’s even less of a problem.

Later he was trying Sword+Dagger Thief. He can still daze with steal every ~21s so roughly every other Rapid Fire and can easily LOS with intelligent use of Infiltrator’s Strike/Return.

Mesmer has daze via shatters and plenty of weapons also interrupt in one way or another.

Warrior has plenty of blocks as well as interrupts depending on their weapon sets.

… and the list goes on and on.

Complaining about Rapid Fire is like complaining about conditions when you don’t bring any condition removal.

At least it does its damage with a telegraph and over 2.5s from an interruptible channel. There are other abilities with no telegraph that do the damage instantly and from range.

I very much disagree. Yes there are ways to mitigate RF, but no build/class has access to even half of those abilities at any given time, let alone all of them at all times as everyone seems to be making it sound. In fact, given the short cooldown of RF, you are realistically only going to be able to counter the first RF, you then have to eat the second or dodge twice to avoid it, which then leave you having to eat all the rest of the ranger’s damage.

No class has access to dodge and LOS? What are you smoking?

Read all of what I wrote. I said: “…no build/class has access to even half of those abilities at any given time, let alone all of them at all times…”
No class has access to all these abilities at all times, and dodge is not the most effective counter to RF since you have to dodge twice in order to avoid all the RF damage.

Another point: all this vehement defense of RF in it’s current state should worry all ranger players, as RF has clearly become a crutch for the class. It needs major work to nearly all other abilities to make them more effective so the class can move away from LB as the only viable weapon for the class.

I did. ALL classes can dodge and find LOS regardless of the build. The only reason i see now is, aside from yhe numerous advices people give you here

But the FACT that you do not wanna take these advice and learn from it, this thread will only get longer.

WHY? Because threads like these are wanting for NERFS.

And guess what? LB really works great against engineers. And you are playing what?

Gern.2978:

Sebrent.3625:

Arc Lightning. It is a constant … as opposed to a 2.5s channel that can be cast every 8 to 10s at most … so 10.5 to 12.5s. It’s not interrupted by their other damage which has no telegraph and simply smacks you in the face.

It also stacks with their abundance of ways to proc on-crit.

Let’s look back at counters to Rapid Fire:

• Daze
• Stun
• LOS
• Block
• Reflect
• Dodge
• Invuln

Plenty of ways to mitigate Rapid Fire. We don’t need to add “move slightly to the side” to this list.

A buddy of mine was trying Dagger+Pistol Thief. He didn’t know what to do about Rapid Fire at first and died to it quite a bit. Then I pointed out to him that his #4 is an interrupt and it was never an issue again. Add to that that his Steal dazes and it’s even less of a problem.

Later he was trying Sword+Dagger Thief. He can still daze with steal every ~21s so roughly every other Rapid Fire and can easily LOS with intelligent use of Infiltrator’s Strike/Return.

Mesmer has daze via shatters and plenty of weapons also interrupt in one way or another.

Warrior has plenty of blocks as well as interrupts depending on their weapon sets.

… and the list goes on and on.

Complaining about Rapid Fire is like complaining about conditions when you don’t bring any condition removal.

At least it does its damage with a telegraph and over 2.5s from an interruptible channel. There are other abilities with no telegraph that do the damage instantly and from range.

I very much disagree. Yes there are ways to mitigate RF, but no build/class has access to even half of those abilities at any given time, let alone all of them at all times as everyone seems to be making it sound. In fact, given the short cooldown of RF, you are realistically only going to be able to counter the first RF, you then have to eat the second or dodge twice to avoid it, which then leave you having to eat all the rest of the ranger’s damage.

No class has access to dodge and LOS? What are you smoking?

Sebrent.3625:

I’m not familiar with Aussie. If you can direct me to them, I’ll take a look and see if it matches with my memories from playing with Durzlla.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j0lhWbTukpo

Sebrent.3625:

@StickerHappy: Yes, but not double-bow trapper. If Durzlla comes back, I’m sure he can describe it. I’m trying to remember the exact build, but he was quite effective with it.

@Shortbow Bleed
I don’t see why it would need to become a 1s bleed if they removed the flanking. They already nerfed the attack speed of the shortbow auto a while back … why can’t it have a nice bleed like other weapons …

• it’s not like we’re asking for a Bleed + Weakness like Engineer Elixir Gun gets
• … or Bleeds and Poison like Necromancer Scepter AA-chain
• … or Elementalist Scepter in Earth which applies 1 bleed every 0.5s (same as a flanking shortbow) with a base duration of 6s (compared to Shortbow’s 3s bleeds) duration) … without the Elementalist scepter requiring flanking :-/

Is that the same build that aussie uses? I think its called pirate ranger or something

In before helseth fanboys come all angry defending their deity. Lol

Sebrent.3625:

When I was talking about a Celestial Shortbow/Longbow build, it wasn’t a trapper build and he was using it in sPvP.

As far as someone being on top of you being an issue, I half agree. If comparing the shortbow to Sword or Greatsword, you have less defenses (and less mobility). If comparing it to MH/OH Axe, Warhorn, Torch, Dagger, you get a little more survival.

Which. Build are ya talkin bout? The double bow one

SR on npcs says hi.. lol.

Akikaze.1307:

StickerHappy.8052:

Akikaze.1307:

Saiyan.1704:

You had two necros and two mesmers on your team… what do you expect?

Matchmaking saw these double class types on your team so it did the same for the other team. They just happened to be all Engi’s. Who’s to say they weren’t waiting 5 minutes for a match either. It just made a decision based on what it had available.

I see this as working as intended…

That is proof that the system isn’t working.

IF the enemy team wasn’t a premade of 4 Engi, then wouldn’t it appropriately seperate the stacked classes by shifting 1 necro, 1 mesmer and 2 engineer per team? It only can’t be helped if the enemy team was indeed a 4player party.

You do know what’s the difference between double and quadruple right?

And FYI, matchmaking does not work that way. Its between points/ratio. But the problem is, Everyone is flocking to engie because of that broken turret mechanic. So in any case you are right too, because MMR can’t find anyone who doesn’t play turret engie nowadays.

Are you sure, you’re quoting the right person? Double means 2, Quadruple means 4. Divide those by 2, you get a even split. I’m certain if you put those 10 players with 2 engineers PER team and/or 1 mesmer PER team, you can theoretically still get a balanced points/ratio rating.

Not you oops.. Sorry. it was for saiyan.

T raw.4658:

StickerHappy.8052:

T raw.4658:

Nebilim.5127:

zinkz.7045:

Nebilim.5127:

I’m almost convinced that engineers are the favorite class of Anet, why they always seem to pop in the daily and why they haven’t suffered any significant nerf every since kit refinement.

So since Kit Refinement nerf engies not having much in the way of nerfs means there is some sort of dev favouritism conspiracy, yet up to kit refinement nerfs the devs “favourite class” was probably the most nerfed class in the game, there seems a problem with your logic.

If i had to pick the most heavy nerfed class would probably be warrior 

Most heavily nerfed is thief mate no contest

Thieves be acting like drama queens as usual.

OTHER CLASSES HAVE IT WORSE

WAKE UP!

Proof? THIEVES HAVE ALWAYS BEEN A PART OF THE META

Due to mobility only

Take away thieves SB and guess what happens?

What? Only Mobility?

Meta Thief eats almost any zerker spec except medi guard?

You thieves are delusional. You always act that your class has it harder. /facepalm

IF mobility was the case then Every team would have mesmers too! (how? PR forward blink, portal)

But why aren’t mesmers on majority of the teams?

You guessed it right, because thieves > most zerker specs.

serenke.4806:

Matchmaking should have distributed 1-1 mesmer and necro and 2-2 engis to the teams unless one was premade.

Go tell him tiger. LOL.

But hey, even if MMR was bad, Turret Engies make it worse.

Saiyan.1704:

You had two necros and two mesmers on your team… what do you expect?

Matchmaking saw these double class types on your team so it did the same for the other team. They just happened to be all Engi’s. Who’s to say they weren’t waiting 5 minutes for a match either. It just made a decision based on what it had available.

I see this as working as intended…

You do know what’s the difference between double and quadruple right?

And FYI, matchmaking does not work that way. Its between points/ratio. But the problem is, Everyone is flocking to engie because of that broken turret mechanic. So in any case you are right too, because MMR can’t find anyone who doesn’t play turret engie nowadays.

That’s Anet for you! Even the Turret problem should be dealt with by now. But guess what? They won’t fix it. They would’ve already if they wanted to.