Guild Wars 2

Mr Snotty Pants.3980:

Am I the only player who wasn’t too hung up on the daily rewards? I just liked having the dailies as a framework for a night’s play. It made the game less repetitive to have random background tasks I’d complete while going about my normal business. They were a key part to how I was playing the game.

The new dailies lack that easy integration with play. They tend to be: Go to this exact spot and do this exact thing — I can do that before or after, but not during play. It’s busy work and I avoid busy work (yes, some old dailies were also busy work, but I could usually avoid those).

To me that’s the big loss — old dailies I did while I played, new dailies I get out of the way before I play. Actually, I just don’t bother…

I realize other play styles already had to go out of their way with old dailies — that doesn’t mean you have to rip out my content to improve those areas.

And I realize this is meant to encourage me to play other types of content. I’m fine with that sort of thing — offer me new incentives. This strange fixation with removing content, I just don’t get…

Rewards =/= content. They didn’t remove content; they reallocated rewards. You can do everything you were doing before exactly the way you were doing it before. Nothing is stopping you from doing that.

Manasa Devi.7958:

I was mostly just challenging your ridiculous claim that the previous system was spoiling open-world-only players when obviously any player who took part in the open world had the exact same benefit as they had.

Yeah, so I only skimmed the rest of the post after you so ignorantly divided the player base into 2 groups: “open world only PvE players” and “the rest of us”. I wasn’t expecting anything useful to follow that cracker of a fallacy. Mea culpa.

I like your reasoning though. You’ve basically confirmed that you agree it’s okay to have to stray from your comfort zone to complete the dailies. Thank you for that!

Manasa Devi.7958:

Subdue.5479:

But really the dailies… I simply can’t empathize even in the slightest with your plight. I know for me (primarily dungeon runner), the dailies were never completed after I finished my runs. I’d get some of them sure, maybe even 3 or 4, but I’d always have to go out of my way to go gather stuff, or WP over to Brisbane to revive some NPCs, and so on.

Now, yes, I’m still doing a few mundane tasks to complete my dailies, but I’m being rewarded more than 100% more, and they’re taking me less time to do!

I don’t mean this to sound rude but, perhaps you open world only, PvE players have been overly spoiled. The rest of us always had that one or two random tasks hanging around that we had to go out of our way to complete if we wanted the daily.

Oh please. Open-world-only players weren’t being overly spoiled. Everyone who spent some little time playing open world was getting their dailies done without much effort. Everyone, not just the open-world-only players. The problem was apparently with you restricting yourself, “staying in your dungeon run comfort zone” previously. A zone you’re so quick to tell people now they need to get out of if they want their rewards.

I found this response pretty funny. You clearly didn’t read through the whole post, or you’d see how silly your comment is. I’ll help you out though.

Subdue.5479:

I don’t mean this to sound rude but, perhaps you open world only, PvE players have been overly spoiled. The rest of us always had that one or two random tasks hanging around that we had to go out of our way to complete if we wanted the daily. Heck, in CoF Path 1 I would let the boss hit me with its painfully easy to dodge fire circle so that it would burn me and I could remove the condition for the dailies. It was ridiculous. It is just a normal part of the game. And if you wanted to get 10 AP, well hell, that’s an hour’s grind of checklisting if not more.

Subdue.5479:

The rest of us always had that one or two random tasks hanging around that we had to go out of our way to complete if we wanted the daily. It is just a normal part of the game.

Subdue.5479:

we had to go out of our way to complete if we wanted the daily. It is just a normal part of the game.

Subdue.5479:

It is just a normal part of the game.

Subdue.5479:

It is just a normal part of the game.

lol…

@Guhracie:

The thing is, I don’t necessarily disagree with all your individual points.

I can definitely see how the trait changes could be seen as harsh, but not necessarily a shift to less choice. I think it could have been implemented better. Heck, even tying the unlocks to the personal story would probably have been better, so that they would always be level appropriate. The concept behind the change is a good one, but the execution could use some work.

I’ve already given my viewpoint on gold gain, customization, etc, and at most I could concede that some of those might be neutral, if not a move to more choice.

But really the dailies… I simply can’t empathize even in the slightest with your plight. I know for me (primarily dungeon runner), the dailies were never completed after I finished my runs. I’d get some of them sure, maybe even 3 or 4, but I’d always have to go out of my way to go gather stuff, or WP over to Brisbane to revive some NPCs, and so on.

Now, yes, I’m still doing a few mundane tasks to complete my dailies, but I’m being rewarded more than 100% more, and they’re taking me less time to do!

I don’t mean this to sound rude but, perhaps you open world only, PvE players have been overly spoiled. The rest of us always had that one or two random tasks hanging around that we had to go out of our way to complete if we wanted the daily. Heck, in CoF Path 1 I would let the boss hit me with its painfully easy to dodge fire circle so that it would burn me and I could remove the condition for the dailies. It was ridiculous. It is just a normal part of the game. And if you wanted to get 10 AP, well hell, that’s an hour’s grind of checklisting if not more.

Elden Arnaas.4870:

ROFL! So you looked at my list, of items complied to your specifications, and belittle them and say that there’s nothing legitimate or of relevance there. Who didn’t see that coming?
It looks like you’re just going to see things the way you want to regardless of reason. I can’t say I didn’t see that going in. I’ve accommodated your request, you (of course) somehow don’t understand it.
I never once mentioned incremental AP rewards. And it’s not 3 out of 12, it’s 3 out of 4.(PvE only)
And as far as mundane activities. Gathering a specific thing in a specific region is a mundane activity, doing events is a mundane activity. So don’t act like the new versions of old dailies are so challenging. They’re…
Just.
More.
Tedious.
Have fun further misinterpreting what I post. I’m done with you.

You are absolutely right, those are also mundane activities. That actually was my point. Not only do you have to do fewer mundane activities, but you’re rewarded more for doing them.

If I decided that I arbitrarily was only going to do jumping puzzles, should I also complain to to A.Net if I can’t get my 10 AP a day from doing the puzzles?

It’s spells a grim fate for a game when players complain because they feel limited by limitations they set on themselves.

Mr Snotty Pants.3980:

Carighan.6758:

You don’t lose out by ignoring it. It’s purely additive, it gives something more than the activity it encourages you to do already gives on its own.

They subtracted old dailies to create this new system. If old dailies were part of how you played — that is gone. The way old dailies integrated into casual pve is gone.

I’m not complaining about how new dailies are implemented. I’m complaining about what got paved over to produce them. To me, this is just like Traits all over…

Actually they moved (and added to) the rewards of the old dailies into the login.

They then made the dailies easier and faster to complete, tripled the AP value of each, and then added the choice of either visiting more than 1 game mode or experiencing more challenging/time consuming content to get your third daily.

Djinn.9245:

Veydar.5017:

So there’s something optional you can’t complete because either your hardware/connection isn’t up to the task or you are not experienced enough in terms of jumping puzzles/hitting buttons at certain time frames. The first one is up to you to fix, the second one requires effort and perseverance. ANET is already giving the playerbase free rewards just for clicking “Login” so I fail to see how optional tasks should be equally free of any challenge whatsoever.

I never said that the Festival Dailies should be free of challenge. It happens that these two dailies are more challenging for different reasons but my issue is that Festival Dailies used to consist of more options. If there were 3 or 4 more options, even if they were challenging, people who had issues with certain content would still have a choice.

You currently have to complete 5 out 6. 5 out of 6.

That’s 83%.

That’s a B-
Give us examples of dailies that would be as challenging or more challenging than the puzzle that you wouldn’t whine about, please.

Astral Projections.7320:

echo.2053:

oh geez a week later and still going heavy on the salt

Astral Projections.7320:

With the events it puts me in an unpleasant position, with fully traited level 80s with a mix of exotics and ascended, where I’m racing to get to events and tag the mobs while at the same time I’m trying to be nice and hold back and not do to much damage so others can get credit also. I’m not immersed in the events.

lol tell us more how zergs break you immersion with you being lvl 80 in asc/exo gear in a lower scaled area. My drink just came out of my nose and now im crying, i pictured this situation in terms of a real life ~ like this 80 year old body builder coming up to these group of 2 year olds where one stole the others lolipop so the 80 year old is im gonna punch the little kid in the face to be heroic.

Each region has 4-5 maps each capable of being multiple overflow servers, your level 80 in what i can only assume in decent gear ( for all i know you could be a traited for condi while wearing full nomads gear), I can assure you that every event WILL NOT be zerged and at level 80 you should be able to wander away from a zerg with high probability of survival. You are also not forced to leave a map once you complete a daily, your free to stay in that area ( granted you aren’t afk ) as long as you please.

If there was one thing to complain about its the mass flood of exp scrolls when there is already a flood of skill point scrolls from champ bags and through pvp reward tracks. I, unlike the majority of gw2 players it seems, don’t mind getting blue/greens/rares from chests. Unless you were to make every chest hand out a precursor they were going whine regardless the fact that they are getting extra rewards.

You obviously didn’t understand my point when I was talking about immersion. It’s not the zerg itself, it’s how the event scaling can’t handle that number of people.

Before I could relax and play. I would stand there and pay attention to to npc’s chatter. Stand around and watch what they were doing. Now it’s “if you snooze you lose”. If you don’t watch for the mobs, if you don’t race over to where they are spawning then you won’t be able to tag one of the few, weak mobs that appear and it’s much harder to get credit. It changed the game from enjoying the event and what was going on and any lore to “mob tag”

In addition, in case you didn’t know. Events show on the map from all across the map and also with your pointer. Every single daily event I’ve done has had at least 20 people doing it with me. The event pops. People from all across the map wp then run to it. I haven’t seen one daily event so far without at least 20 others getting there within a few minutes and the event mobs being inadequate to the numbers.

You’re right, this is a problematic situation. However, this isn’t really a problem with the daily so much as a problem with event scaling, which is fixable. We’ve already seen that it can be done, evidence being Silverwaste and Drytop. It’s a matter of A.Net reconfiguring the scaling of the events.

I also do agree that level 80s should be directed towards higher level zones, not starter zones, but again that’s a tweak, not a call to revert back.

Elden Arnaas.4870:

Ah, you want a comprehensive list of everything taken away by the new dailies:

1. Can’t level a low level alt with dailies if dailies are in a high level area.
2. Can’t map-clear and get dailies at the same time, if they’re in an area I’ve already cleared.
3. Can’t get dailies quickly if they’re in an area that I have to “open up” because I haven’t been there/been there much.(once again, this is especially important for leveling alts)
4. Can’t gather in an area in want to be in anyway, unless that area happens to be where dailies are.
5. Can’t gather what I want and get daily, if daily specifies gathering another(needlessly specific) thing.(I gather a lot of metals and lumber for Ascended gear. I have a legitimate need, why don’t metals and lumber always count?)
6. Can’t get the first World Boss available for daily, because WB daily is needlessly specific.(And why has it been Svanir Shaman, one of the most over-populated WB’s so often?)
7. Can’t enjoy getting daily events in starter areas, too busy trying to calm toxicity, and “hold back” on dmg so that new players can get credit.(While some high level players just mow down monsters as fast as they can, totally disrespecting new players.) Why has Anet now decided that zergs in starter areas are a good thing?
8. Can’t solo complete dailies, staying only in PvE.(at times) Forcing people into an alternate game mode to make them like it is a fallacy.
9. Before I could look at dailies and plan the most efficient way to do them, or just let them happen naturally. Can’t do that now. It has to be a task to complete them.
And the list goes on…
In short it’s mainly about needless specificity, and how it limits options. And also the fewer available choices.
Many of these things may seem petty, but they were things we could do before. Those things have been taken away. Taking things away from your customers is a sure way to foster resentment. And it’s a bad practice. Add other options instead.
Don’t think there’s nothing that I like about the new dailies. But people on the “pro” side are posting that stuff, and covering it pretty well. There’s no need for me to do it.

That’s not a list of things you can’t do now, it’s a list of mundane stuff you want to be incrementally rewarded for in addition to the intrinsic reward for doing the stuff.

So basically, what it boils down to is, you think you should be given a small AP reward for every mundane activity you do, rather than be expected to complete 3 out of 12 relatively simple tasks for an even greater reward, even though those tasks would often take you no more than 5-10 minutes, if that?

Got it, we’re on the same page now.

Djinn.9245:

NornBearPig.9814:

Anyone find it ironic how the “play what I want” folks cry when their checklist gets nerfed?

No, because when your number of choices are lessened, you are less able to play as you want.

Please list for me the activities you’re no longer able to do because of the patch.

I think any dailies added need to be more involved not more generic crap.

Djinn.9245:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Serophous.9085:

So…..like little league baseball?

“Its OK kids, even if you lost to a more skilled team, you still get a shiney trophy to take home saying ‘I tried!’ So you don’t get low self-esteem and feel bad”.

That’s modern day little league, unfortunately. When I played in the early 80’s it was pretty common to see kids walking off the field in tears when they learned a valuable lesson, not everyone gets to be a winner.

We’re talking about a Holiday Event – not everyone should be a winner? So you think kids who don’t get to celebrate holidays IRL “learned a valuable lesson, not everyone gets to be a winner”? I realize this is a game, not as serious as Real Life but…its a game, not as serious as Real Life. O.o

Uh, he’s able to celebrate. He’s still opening presents, doing activities, enjoying the scenery, etc.

What he’s not getting is the reward for something he didn’t earn.

Elden Arnaas.4870:

re: Why do you feel you deserve the reward for content you’re absolutely unwilling to do? – I don’t. How does wanting more choices equate to wanting a reward for something that I’m unwilling to do? Once again you’re misinterpreting what I’ve posted. You’ve been doing this all along. Yes, reference my posts in this thread. Look at my whole post history. I have been consistent in asking for more choices for players, and more variety in those choices. And I have been consistent in criticizing when player choice has been limited, and when player choices have been taken away. I want Anet to to maintain a happy player base for GW2 that will grow, not alienate players and make them leave.

Once again, what is the problem with giving players more choices, and more variety in those choices? It just blows my mind that there are people in this thread arguing that less, more restricted choices are a good thing, and much better for the game as a whole. -?!?
And why would anyone want to be lead by the nose through a game that chooses what you do for you? And forces you to do things that you dislike? How in the world are there people who actually think that this is a good thing?
Games are for entertainment and enjoyment. They’re for relaxing doing what you want, and what you like.
There is a a great post somewhere in one of these dailies threads, and I apologize for not properly quoting. Someone, regarding Anet “forcing players out of their comfort zone” replied:
“I don’t play games to be uncomfortable”
That is just brilliant, and spot-on. Thanks to the person that posted that.
We know what we want, we know what we like. Please don’t try to force us to do things that we dislike. Life does that. This is a game.
If people still misunderstand my position at this point, I guess that we’re just not on the same page, or it’s deliberate. Either way, I don’t think I can help you. My posts may be passive-aggressive wall ‘o texts, but they’re consistent. And looking at my post history, enough of them are highly rated that I think that’s evidence that they’re clear. Because people wouldn’t up-vote them if they couldn’t understand them. So I am getting my point across. Just not to everyone. Sorry.

Well, I’ll walk you through it step by step then, so there’s no confusion.

Question 1:

What actions or activities (exploring, puzzles, dungeons, activities, gathering, dodging, condition removing, condition applying… etc) were you able to do before the patch that you are no longer able to do now?

Serophous.9085:

So anet made the mistake and didn’t contact the op to make sure their list of six daily achievements met his playing capabilities.

So what we need here is a fifth daily that is as trivial as the others. So no snowball mayhem….could drink five festival tonics, but we already have a copper spent on ho-ho-tron, so that’s too much……hmmm…..

Oh I know! Just visit the holiday vendor! Just like the old laurel vendor achievement! There! Then everyone can feel like that really accomplished something…

He might get lost. How about…

Visit Divinity’s Reach?

Suona.9451:

Subdue.5479:

You can play together with the “veterans,” and you still get gifts for each completion. You’re able to grind it out if you’re not good at it, but have an easier time if you are good at it.

I’m not seeing where the issue is here. If you want to take skill out of the equation altogether, why not just go play Sims instead?

I didn’t say to take skill out altogether. There’s a reason why these games are designed where skilled players can help lesser skilled players. That’s not the case with some of these events. I can use a keyboard an mouse well enough to play the actual game, but not Tap Tap Revenge or Super Mario Bros. At least with Toypocalypse, a player can enlist skilled help. Too bad that event doesn’t count either. Always some 12yr old offering alternate game suggestions.

You’re the one that doesn’t know how to use a keyboard, and I’m the 12 year old? =P

On a serious note though. The bell choir is not difficult. It’s not as trivially easy as some of the other achievements, but if you wanted to grind it out, at the very least you should be able to complete the first half in a set of songs, which would eventually net you the achievement.

There’s nothing intrinsically wrong with cosmetic content being locked behind some kind of skill test.

You can play together with the “veterans,” and you still get gifts for each completion. You’re able to grind it out if you’re not good at it, but have an easier time if you are good at it.

I’m not seeing where the issue is here. If you want to take skill out of the equation altogether, why not just go play Sims instead?

Astralporing.1957:

Subdue.5479:

Therefore, in order to create equilibrium and keep prices fair for other game modes, PvE needs to be brought down to the level of PvP and WvW in terms of rewards.

No. Equality doesn’t need to mean making everyone equally miserable. If you find a game mode lacking in something, by all means argue for that situation to be improved. Do not claim however, that if you can’t have something, then the only solution is to have that thing taken away from the person next to you.
It’s not a real world where we do need to share a finite number of resources, after all. Here, in the game, giving stuff to people does not require taking it from others.

Subdue.5479:

Take today’s for example:

PvE:
Activity Participation > Quick & Easy
Krytan Lumberer > Quick & Easy
Metrica Event Completer > Potentially time consuming
Frozen Maw > Potentially time consuming

Take yesterday’s then – double Fractals, Brisban Events and Maguuma Jungle Miner. Or any day where world boss daily requires waiting for 3 hours if you logged at the wrong time.
Then tell me it’s all nice and equal.

(Also, notice how no WvW daily set requires you to change zones even once.)

Okay, two points here. First of all, one of the fractal events was “finish 1 fractal.” That takes less than 5 minutes. That you choose not to do that is another point altogether.

And second of all, WvW zones are identical, with each server having control of a different section of each map. Just because the daily doesn’t say "Take a keep in “red borderland” doesn’t mean people don’t have to change zones to take a keep. You can, for example, flip sentries and camps safely on your own borderland, but have to switch to an enemy borderland to take a keep, as your server might own all of theirs.

Furthermore, world bosses and such in pve are on a timer. Yes, you might have to wait to do them, or your timing might conflict, but they’re predictable, and if you want to do them, you can. This is not the same as the “Take a keep” option in WvW. There’s no timer. There is no way to tell outside of playing for long periods of time when your server may attempt to take a keep. There’s no way to tell if they will attempt it at all. And if they do, there’s no way to tell it will be successful. And then there’s the opposite scenario. It’s also possible that your server is dominating and there are no keeps to take!

@Elden Arnaas:

Why do you feel you deserve the reward for content you’re absolutely unwilling to do?

@Guhracie:

See, here’s the thing. The dailies for all three modes follow a similar pattern, with PvP probably being slightly more convenient for one-mode-only players. Take today’s for example:

PvE:
Activity Participation > Quick & Easy
Krytan Lumberer > Quick & Easy
Metrica Event Completer > Potentially time consuming
Frozen Maw > Potentially time consuming

WvW:
Master of Ruins > Quick and Easy
Land Claimer > Quick and Easy
Camp Capturer > Potentially time consuming
Tower Capturer > Potentially time consuming

PvP:
50 Rank Points > Quick and Easy
Point Defender > Quick and Easy
Guardian Winner > Potentially time consuming
Engineer Winner > Potentially time consuming (This one is especially time consuming for me as I’m terrible with engineer lol)

It’s not like PvE has been dealt some sort of unfair hand here. Players are being encouraged to experience different content all across the board here, and that’s good for the game.

Think back to the dailies of old. Were you encouraged to explore different game modes? No not really. Were you encouraged to explore new content within your preferred game mode? No not really. What were the old dailies actually accomplishing? What purpose did they serve? At most they were an incentive to log in, locked behind mundane, grindish content (kill 50 ambients???). That’s been turned into a login reward now, without the grind, leaving AP the only incentive for those who want to do the daily.

And let’s be frank here. It’s not choice that you’ve “lost,” it’s rewards. The two are not the same, and you have options for getting those rewards, and more. The path to them is just slightly different. With 2 of the dailies always being easy in each section, you really should be able to pop into a different mode for 2 minutes to get your third and earn yourself double what you were probably earning before in terms of rewards. It really is that easy. I guarantee that the it takes you a fraction of the time it to complete the dailies today than it did before the patch if you’re willing to branch out for just a few minutes a day. But if even that is too much, you can do it every other day instead, and still be up to par with what you had before.

It’s hard to empathize with PvE only players complaining that they have been somehow displaced by the changes when all that’s required of them to make them even better off than they were before is a few minutes of travel time.

Dave.2536:

Why are all of you rallying around festival rewards as being proper “challenging content”? lol…

Where were most of you in the threads about the game in general being too easy/casual? A good number of you are defending these dailies simply because it’s the status quo.

OP is simply pointing out that there isn’t much precedent based on the history of this game. I would personally welcome such a shift, but I realize I am probably not the target audience, and I don’t believe a festival daily is the most appropriate place to begin such a shift.

The thing is, it’s not really lol. I mean the choir bell daily can be done with just one finger. Is easy.

Djinn.9245:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

I bought all the mini rewards in the year(s) past. This year, I selected the 100 gifts and got the Ho-Ho-Tron. And, I’m going to guess quite a few people bought the past minis or created them when possible.

Rome is not burning. It’s an electronic image that doesn’t even exist. You spent money on that last year, and now are kittened that one of those items can be a reward this year?

Please put this into perspective.

Who said Rome was burning? That’s a little over-dramatic. The fact is that a reward for completing a festival should be something new, not something that players might already have. What means those players get no reward.

And for players who previously gave Anet money for the reward, its even worse. Of course its actually a poor business decision to essentially say “don’t buy items from the store because we give away store items as festival rewards.”

…You realize it was available as a reward the year he bought it too, right? There was no reason to believe it would never be available as a reward again.

OmniPotentes.4817:

Subdue.5479:

This one time I bought a TV for $800, and then 2 years later I saw it was on sale for $200. WTF NEVER GOING TO BESTBUY AGAIN!

Your argument holds no water. I’m free to choose what TV I buy, whereas I’m having a useless reward I can’t sell or trade forced upon me.

So choose the 100 gifts instead?

I mean, you get a choice of which mini you get, and I’m guessing most people didn’t buy all of them 2 years ago. Even if you did though, you can choose the 100 gifts instead. You bought the minis because you deemed them an appropriate value for you 2 years ago.

This one time I bought a TV for $800, and then 2 years later I saw it was on sale for $200. WTF NEVER GOING TO BESTBUY AGAIN!

Djinn.9245:

Sinifair.1026:

Personally, I like the new dailies, they work very well for me.
- The Dailies are not hardcore content. It’s meant to introduce the different areas of the game and what there is to do. Events, crafting materials, dungeons along with PvP and WvW, it’s meant to teach new players. It also comes with an incentive for veterans in forms of chests for each completed daily assignment.
- I’m being eased into the PvP and WvW scene, and I’m actually enjoying myself, since I’m not required to stay long, if it’s not my type of content, but I’m enjoying the casual approach I can take to it and still enjoy content I might otherwise not have tried.

That’s great that you are enjoying the changes. I really mean it – I’m glad that you are having fun. But why are you arguing that everyone else should have fun in the same way that you do? Some people do not want to be “eased into the PvP and WvW scene”. Or Fractals or Dungeons or Jumping Puzzles, or Activities, or whichever option each person doesn’t happen to like. Shouldn’t we be allowed to have fun in GW2 the way we always have? With access to the same Achievement rewards that everyone else gets?

In short: no. All content should be rewarding, but not all rewards should be given for any content.

Should you have access to AP? Yes.

Do you have access to AP as a PvE only player? Absolutely. In fact, the permanent achievements in PvE is far more accessible that in either PvP or WvW, and the Living Story and Holiday Achievements are 100% PvE too.

Should you necessarily have that access from dailies? Only if you’re willing to do the content of the daily.

The daily is optional, for those who want to pursue it. You’re not in any way forced to do it.

Serophous.9085:

Vayne.8563:

Far too many people play for the achievements specifically for them to be abolished. For people who do need direction, achievements are an important guide.

So….people want to play as they want….but be told what to do….?

Do you really not understand the concept of liking achievements?

I really hope you’re just playing dumb.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

Lishtenbird.2814:

Vayne.8563:

You can proved 90% of the casuals were getting 5-8 ap daily in the old system? I’d be interested to see that.

Vayne.8563:

It’s very easy to say people were getting achievement points by doing nothing, because that’s what was happening. Anet decided to actually make people do something to get achievement points, while giving them the other rewards for free.

We were doing “something” before. You couldn’t get AP simply by logging in, you couldn’t do “nothing”. You had to… surprise! – PLAY the game daily to get daily APs. That’s why they’re called “dailies”. If you were running around the world, killing stuff (naturally applying condies and dodging), gathering mats, for a considerable time, you were boosting ANet’s daily time metrics and getting your APs for playing the game. Would you really argue that people who were actively playing PvE (and not chatting in LA) for 30-60 minutes an evening were not getting AP?

The problem is that now, to get any daily AP, you have to perform pet tricks do specific things instead of doing something. Is it hard to see what people do not like?

Yes before they were called dailies and they came with a daily reward which included as only a part of it achievement points. You now get most of those rewards (and more) just for logging in).

You can get extra rewards you could never get before, even if you don’t get the achievement points, by doing any two of the dailies.

But because it’s an achievement point you’re losing, I think (and have always thought) achievements really shouldn’t be something you get incidentally, certainly not daily achievements.

It’s a flaw in the game that has been occasionally commented upon. Now that you actually have to go out of your way for an achievement point, people are up in arms.

There’s nothing in the game you actually need achievement points for, and there are other ways to get them without dailies.

And I have always thought that a laurel wreath was something only awarded to the most excellent of achievers. Certainly, it was like that historically. You didn’t see just anyone run around with laurel wreaths on their crown.

In this game, you got them for completing multiple achievements, something that rang more true to the historical (and present) real-life use of laurel wreaths than the current hand-outs we get for just showing up.

In light of that, I would say that the currency “laurel” as it exists in this game, has lost touch with its etymological roots. Therefore, I propose we change the name of the currency to something more appropriate. Something like: “alms” or perhaps “charity”.

Or perhaps we can just stop the nonsense about it being more proper to actually work for achievement points, while getting laurels for free is okay. Those two acquisition methods paired like they are now is wholly arbitrary and not in any way proper or logical.

This isn’t really semantics. Nothing is locked behind achievement points, except skins. Laurels are useful currency to a lot of people. And yes you got the occasional laurel from an achievement point chest, but not quickly enough to make any use of it.

Laurels are simply more useful to more people than achievement points. That’s why Anet couldn’t just take them away. Achievement points, on the other hand, aren’t just an currency, they’re a form of score. Last time I looked there was no laurel leaderboard. So it’s not just a semantic difference, no matter how much you want to make it so.

I haven’t heard of a cap on laurels either.

You don’t spend achievement points, you’re rewarded for attaining them.

You don’t get titles for earning laurels, you do get titles for hitting certain levels of achievement points.

If you want to try to make this a semantic argument, go right ahead. But the in game reality paints laurels as a currency and achievement points as something other than just a currency.

I’m not trying to make it about semantics. I’m just, once again, trying to point out the hypocrisy of (quoting you): “I think (and have always thought) achievements really shouldn’t be something you get incidentally, certainly not daily achievements.” but seeing nothing wrong with giving out laurels for free, hell, even going one step further and using that “free-ness” to somehow explain why there’s nothing wrong with this system.

Hello apple, meet orange.

Djinn.9245:

nGumball.1283:

This community is getting so spoiled that I won’t be surprised if threads are to come in the future where people would ask to get all the dailies/LS completion/event completion etc. just by skipping the content and clicking on ‘’skip to the rewards’’.

First, how rude. Second, I am talking about the lack of enough choices in the Festival Dailies. I never asked to complete anything more easily.

Right, you just want more easy options to avoid that hard options.

I can totally see the difference there.

It should also really be taken into account that if the primary concern the lost AP, then really PvE has little to complain about. In terms of both permanent achievements and temporary achievements (Living Story, holiday events), PvE has far far greater AP potential than WvW and PvE. So it really is, “Play as you want,” because the reward you miss out on by skipping the dailies is available through many other sources.

Guhracie.3419:

Subdue.5479:

Zero Day.2594:

There are two people that seem to be trying to derail the thread by trying to switch it to how fast people acquire resources and now legendaries (btw the root of that evil is precursors…)…

That’s not true. While precursor prices have risen, that’s more a response to an increase in the availability of gold. It’s not like there are fewer precursors dropping now than a year ago.

The whole premise of this thread is that there are options being taken away from PvE players, when the only reward for dailies is AP, something that is abundant in PvE relative to the other game modes. I think the availability of the singular reward which is apparently forcing PvE players to grind painful events or travel begrudgingly outside their comfort zones is extremely relevant to a conversation about PvE players having choices in what content they want to do.

And, like I said in my original posting, the change to dailies is merely the impetus to having this discussion. There is a larger picture, here. I also object to your assertion that the way to bring PvE in line with PvP and WvW as game modes is to make a more restrictive game for PvE. Maybe I’m misunderstanding you- I genuinely do not know.

But if the shift in philosophy to fewer choices was meant to balance things out for the other game modes, it has sorely failed in many ways. There’s no reward track for the personal story in PvP yet. Most of trait acquisition is located outside of WvW, and none of it is in PvP.

Do you genuinely feel as if PvE needs fewer choices to be in line with WvW/PvP? I am just really struggling with what people are even defending, at this point. Are you saying that there hasn’t been a distinct trend toward a more rigid structure to the GW2 PvE experience in the last year?

Wow, that’s not at all what I said. I didn’t say PvE needs fewer choices. I said PvE is over-rewarded in almost all currencies in the game, and the rewards would need to be toned down to bring it in line with the other two modes.

There seems to be something which you glaze right over each time you respond. I’m not sure if you’re doing it intentionally, or if it’s a real oversight on your part. You keep talking about fewer “choices,” but what you really mean is fewer “rewards.” By that I mean, at least as far as the dailies are concerned, you are perfectly capable of doing every single thing you were doing prior to the change, and reaping the intrinsic rewards of those activities, though you wouldn’t be earning the AP. It is thus the reward that you’re chasing after, not necessarily the freedom to go do those activities.

When you consider that most if not all living story content is entirely PvE, and the PvE set of permanent achievements is also far more robust than that of PvP and WvW, should we really even have a PvE set in the daily? Isn’t PvE already over-rewarded in terms of AP relative to the other two?

Zero Day.2594:

Subdue.5479:

The whole premise of this thread is that there are options being taken away from PvE players, when the only reward for dailies is AP, something that is abundant in PvE relative to the other game modes. I think the availability of the singular reward which is apparently forcing PvE players to grind painful events or travel begrudgingly outside their comfort zones is extremely relevant to a conversation about PvE players having choices in what content they want to do.

Yeah, you got the premise right, up until the first comma.
You should be able to get past most people like that though and back to taking that train off the tracks… (by train I mean the thread topic)

You can pretend it’s irrelevant if you like, but the only issue that’s on the table here is the reward system, as there are no activities that could be done pre-change that can’t be done now. It’s literally just the rewards that are different. Therefore any conversation about choice and rewards has to take in an inclusive view.

It’s cute that you keep saying I’m wrong without actually giving a reason. Really cute.

Zero Day.2594:

There are two people that seem to be trying to derail the thread by trying to switch it to how fast people acquire resources and now legendaries (btw the root of that evil is precursors…)…

That’s not true. While precursor prices have risen, that’s more a response to an increase in the availability of gold. It’s not like there are fewer precursors dropping now than a year ago.

The whole premise of this thread is that there are options being taken away from PvE players, when the only reward for dailies is AP, something that is abundant in PvE relative to the other game modes. I think the availability of the singular reward which is apparently forcing PvE players to grind painful events or travel begrudgingly outside their comfort zones is extremely relevant to a conversation about PvE players having choices in what content they want to do.

Guhracie.3419:

Subdue.5479:

Just something I’d like to throw in here as food for thought. You’re all complaining about some perceived loss of choice, when really, for the longest time PvE has been BY FAR the fastest and most efficient source of pretty much every available resource in this game aside from WvW badges and PvP rank points. It is so far above and beyond the other two that if you want to make a legendary, or even just amass some gold to buy an expensive (100g+) skin, you typically go to PvE content to grind it out. And as I mentioned before, PvE is already by far the biggest source of AP too. If PvE rewards were taken down a peg or two so that it was more in line with the rewards in the other two modes, wouldn’t that be making room for more choice, as you aren’t pigeonholed into having to go into PvE to unlock content that you want?

You seem to have missed my whole premise, which is that I’m all for choice for other game modes, but the reasoning that it has to be at the expense of choice in PvE is nonsensical.

Actually it’s not. Ultimately pricing is based on the availability of gold. If gold can be gained at a much higher rate in one game mode (PVE) than in other game modes, that game mode sets the value for items. Therefore, in order to create equilibrium and keep prices fair for other game modes, PvE needs to be brought down to the level of PvP and WvW in terms of rewards.

It’s the same for AP really. If AP is easier to gain in PvE then the breakpoints for AP rewards have to be based on that, which means other game modes must suffer.

Just something I’d like to throw in here as food for thought. You’re all complaining about some perceived loss of choice, when really, for the longest time PvE has been BY FAR the fastest and most efficient source of pretty much every available resource in this game aside from WvW badges and PvP rank points. It is so far above and beyond the other two that if you want to make a legendary, or even just amass some gold to buy an expensive (100g+) skin, you typically go to PvE content to grind it out. And as I mentioned before, PvE is already by far the biggest source of AP too. If PvE rewards were taken down a peg or two so that it was more in line with the rewards in the other two modes, wouldn’t that be making room for more choice, as you aren’t pigeonholed into having to go into PvE to unlock content that you want?

The new dailies are likely structured in such a way to encourage people to visit different content.

Elden Arnaas.4870:

re: Basically you aren’t happy unless a.net supports the way you want to play and ONLY the way you want to play. Thanks for clearing that up. – Twist my words and deliberately misinterpret me however you want. I can’t stop you. I think that I’ve made my position clear. You are just going to be unhappy with anything I say, so long as I disagree with you. I’m for players having more freedom and more choices. And I’m against having choices limited or taken away. Why can’t you see that?

And where have I said at any point that it’s the rewards, not the choices that matter to me? I said I would give up a 10 gold reward for being pushed into doing things that I dislike. Everything I’ve said has been about choices – more choices instead of less. How could you possibly misinterpret that? Unless it was deliberate.

Let’s review:

1. You said the only thing you couldn’t do now was get ap from dailies.

2. You said you would not be satisfied even if the ap were moved to logins and some other reward were used for dailies.

The quote for #2 is still in this thread in case you or anyone else would like to reread what you said. If you want to change your stance now though. I don’t mind.

But as in #1 you agreed the only thing that’s different is the reward, not what you can actually do, it’s pretty obvious that it’s the rewards that are important to you.

I’d be very surprised if they make any changes any time soon. And looking at those numbers is rather deceptive considering a good amount of those posts are from people like me who like the new system

Elden Arnaas.4870:

re: Aside from the reward (get ap from daily) what are you no longer able to do because of the change to dailies? – Get the AP. And I’ve only missed the 12/26 daily because of Fractals. But the AP really don’t concern me as much as this trend of Anet limiting player options and restricting our choices. The less options I have the less happy I am with the game. If you look at my post history, you’ll see that I’ve always been for players having more choices, and against players having less choices. And especially against having choices taken away. People resent having things taken away from them. And once again let me say that I don’t think that Anet forcing people to do things that they don’t want to do will accomplish anything constructive. Why do they have to be so restrictive and limiting? Why can’t we at least have more of the new choices? Or have the choices be less restrictive? Why a specific World Boss instead of just any World Boss. Why pull so many people into one specific map(overcrowding it) instead of a general region? It seems like the latest in a trend of ill-conceived decisions by Anet, and I’m concerned that they’re making more and more of the player base dissatisfied.

So in other words, it’s about the rewards, not the choices, since you’ve just admitted there’s nothing you can’t do now that you could before except for get the rewards, namely ap. However, you also stated earlier they you would not be satisfied even if the ap were moved to the login and something else were used as incentive to play other game modes.

Basically you aren’t happy unless a.net supports the way you want to play and ONLY the way you want to play. Thanks for clearing that up.

Guhracie.3419:

Subdue.5479:

Guhracie.3419:

Hamfast.8719:

Subdue.5479:

If there were 12 choices for pve dailies but they were all difficult and or time consuming, but entirely available without venturing into pvp or wvw, would that satisfy your desire for choices?

A choice of 6 PvE (and PvP as well as WvW) would probably be sufficient. As pointed out, 50% of today’s PvE choices included Fractals achievements. Not a lot of variety to choose from there.) I’m not sure where you’re getting that they have to be extra difficult or time consuming, but I would prefer choices on par with the old ones and not any super-simple new junk they’re giving us like viewing a vista or chopping 10 trees in a specific zone.

This. I simply do not understand why there was a need to remove so many choices. Not from a game design perspective, and not from a coding perspective. Certainly not to reduce it to choose 3 out of an available 4. It doesn’t make any sense to me. And there’s no reason why the choices need to be arduous. I don’t understand this sudden desire to penalize choices that were previously available. Why?

It’s pretty obvious that the goal of the revamped dailies is to encourage people to explore other game modes. That’s why each game mode tends to have two easy dailies and two difficult/time consuming ones. You can easily complete them by hopping around game modes, but if you absolutely are unwilling to do that, you’ve got two more difficult options to choose from.

If they were to leave the old, easy options, people would just default to those and the whole point of the revamp would be lost.

So the point of the change is to diminish choice of preferred game mode? That is exactly what this thread is about. I don’t see how that can possibly be a good change, but you clearly disagree and appreciate the narrower structure.

No… Your choice isn’t diminished. There is literally nothing at all you could do before the change that you can’t do now. Nothing at all. What has changed is the reward for doing various activities. You can still kill ambients to your heart’s content, and have long, emotional conversions with the laurel vendor. Please keep dodging enemies, applying conditions, and removing them from yourself. You can still do all of these things. However if you choose to do the content that’s being encouraged, you get a small additional reward in the form of ap.

Ap is not unique to dailies, and pve is not somehow deficient in available ap. In fact it is quite the opposite. The bulk of accessible ap is in pve, both in the form of permanent achievements, living story achievements, and even the holiday events. You are not locked out of some otherwise unattainable resource should you choose not to do the dailies.

@locce:

1. Two from each mode are easy, two are hard. This means you can do two easy in pve and then one easy in wvw, or some other combination. It’s giving you s choice while still encouraging you to branch out.

2. I agree, they should expand the world boss dailies to include the lesser engaged bosses.

3. It depends. I’ll give you an example though that’s applicable to me. About a month into playing gw2 I made a mesmer. I hated it. I got the character to level 20 or so and stopped. It’s still a mule on my account to this day. About six months later I forced myself to make a new mesmer because I had grown a liking for jumping puzzles. I gritted my teeth and leveled the new mesmer to 80, and in the course of doing so, fell in love with the character. That character is now my most played character by hundreds of hours.

In circuses they tie baby elephants to a spike to keep them from running away. They’re not during enough to pill the spike out no matter how hard they try, and soon they give up. When they’re grown, they can easily yank the spike from the ground, but they don’t try because they remember that they couldn’t before.

@hamfast:

… Seriously?

How in the world did the old dailies “give you an idea of what to do?” Get a post it and write on it, “kill 50 ambients, talk to laurel vendor, dodge 15 times, apply 15 conditions, remove 15 conditions.”. Stick it to your monitor.

Bam, your now have as much direction as the old dailies have.

Elden Arnaas.4870:

re: why not play the content you enjoy ? – If I haven’t made it clear by now that I only play content that I enjoy, or that I find rewarding, then I don’t know what more I can do to get that point across. GW2 is a game and everything is optional. Why take away choices, or make existing ones less appealing? It’s great that PvP and WvW get more choices than they had. But why take away from PvE options? Why not give each game mode the choice to do 5 out of 8 options? Why is it so crucial to cut down on the number of choices players have? And to overcrowd some maps, while leaving other maps underpopulated? I don’t understand this direction. It seems like bad practices, that will only hurt the GW2 player base overall.

Aside from the reward (get ap from daily) what are you no longer able to do because of the change to dailies?

Locce.8405:

Subdue.5479:

I think you should take into account that people who don’t like something tend to be louder than people who like it. The forum represents a tiny fraction of the player base, and people who are fine with the changes are just playing. They are less likely to come here and voice their appreciation then people who are disgruntled are likely to come to complain.

So how much is the bias in your opinion? Are the forumites a representative cross section of the player base? Is it really possible to calculate, for example, if we have 10 complainers in a thread and 3 anti-complainers, the playerbase should be split 2:1 against the complaint? And why should I care if I can only speak for myself one way or the other? A good idea is still a good idea, even if only a single person had it.
You are dodging the real argument by referring to the absence of player numbers, which is: what do you lose if those who complain are heard and appropriate changes are implemented? Would it really diminish your playing experience? And if so, how? How is having more choice making your day worse?

A.net is likely trying to encourage people to play other content, like wvw, PvP, and even poorly populated zones. This is healthy for the game, as even in this very negative these we are having people say they discovered something about the game that they didn’t know they would like. If, however, the old easy choices remained, people will just default to what is easiest, and the whole point of the revamp will have been lost.

As someone who prefers pve (specifically dungeons and fractals) the additional choices would not hurt me, but that doesn’t mean I came see why a.net structured the dailies as they did, and I support their reasoning and goal as I believe it’s important that people be exposed to those things.

Outfits in combat.

Locce.8405:

Filaha.1678:

If you ran a store and one person came in and complained about the merchandise and said they were never coming back again because the merchandise wasn’t what they wanted, would you try to make them happy so they come back by changing your merchandise, or would you look at the hundred regulars that are constantly coming into your store and buying your merchandise and instead try to keep them happy?

It’s only logic.

The next day another customer comes in with the same complaint. The day after that another two. Then another customer on day three… How many customers do you lose before you start to even consider if their complaint is valid? At which point do you even recognise that of the customers who have not yet complained about the new merchandise none have exactly complained about the old one either? If you ran a store and would really try to maximise your profits wouldn’t you at least check if keeping the complaining customer happy would actually cost you anything?

It’s only logic.

I think you should take into account that people who don’t like something tend to be louder than people who like it. The forum represents a tiny fraction of the player base, and people who are fine with the changes are just playing. They are less likely to come here and voice their appreciation then people who are disgruntled are likely to come to complain.

Hamfast.8719:

Many people already know where their comfort zone lies (PvE, PvP, WvW). We don’t need ANet “encouraging” us to go outside of it. This is a game. We don’t play to feel uncomfortable. Give us challenges us in areas of the game we enjoy.

The biggest problem I have is with them giving us such specific tasks. That is just a recipe for massive zergfests. I utterly and completely despise zergs myself. I tried the Jormag event when it appeared on the Dailies, and was frozen for literally half the event. (Move for a couple seconds, freeze for 20. Repeat). Amazingly I never disconnected, but I have never been to an event with such incredible lag (with the possible exception of the first day the Karka arrived in the lands around LA). Never again. Nothing ANet can do will “encourage” me to play zerg content. (I blame Scarlet for bringing that WvW tactic down upon PvE).

So basically, you want them to challenge you so long as the challenge doesn’t involve wvw, PvP, large groups, difficult dungeons, … You just want to be rewarded for slaying ambients and salvaging gear. Just say that.

Guhracie.3419:

Hamfast.8719:

Subdue.5479:

If there were 12 choices for pve dailies but they were all difficult and or time consuming, but entirely available without venturing into pvp or wvw, would that satisfy your desire for choices?

A choice of 6 PvE (and PvP as well as WvW) would probably be sufficient. As pointed out, 50% of today’s PvE choices included Fractals achievements. Not a lot of variety to choose from there.) I’m not sure where you’re getting that they have to be extra difficult or time consuming, but I would prefer choices on par with the old ones and not any super-simple new junk they’re giving us like viewing a vista or chopping 10 trees in a specific zone.

This. I simply do not understand why there was a need to remove so many choices. Not from a game design perspective, and not from a coding perspective. Certainly not to reduce it to choose 3 out of an available 4. It doesn’t make any sense to me. And there’s no reason why the choices need to be arduous. I don’t understand this sudden desire to penalize choices that were previously available. Why?

It’s pretty obvious that the goal of the revamped dailies is to encourage people to explore other game modes. That’s why each game mode tends to have two easy dailies and two difficult/time consuming ones. You can easily complete them by hopping around game modes, but if you absolutely are unwilling to do that, you’ve got two more difficult options to choose from.

If they were to leave the old, easy options, people would just default to those and the whole point of the revamp would be lost.

Lazuli.2098:

Subdue.5479:

…
What I would not agree with is bringing back the old generic dailies that would allow people to get the daily without going out of their way at all.

Then by that logic you should be all for removing pvp and wvw daily tasks.

..?

Elden Arnaas.4870:

A couple of people have asked if the 10 AP were moved to the login rewards, and a monetary award of 10 gold was added for completing dailies, if that would satisfy those of us who are unhappy with the new dailies. And, speaking for myself, I would say absolutely not. GW2 is a game for fun and entertainment. No bribe is enough to make me do things that I dislike.(in a game) And I imagine that there are many who agree with me. I’ve already come to grips with the fact that there are a lot of things in this game that are “not for me”. But that category is growing, and that concerns me.

Several people have asked if we simply got more of the new choices, if that would be sufficient. Once again, speaking for myself, I say it would be better than nothing. And probably the easiest to implement “solution”. But no, I would not be satisfied by that merely less dissatisfied. And I’m sure I’m not alone in this viewpoint.

This thread with its original title “I dislike the new dailies” went to 29 pages before the subject was changed. Please quit acting like it’s just one or two players who are dissatisfied with the new dailies.

And seriously, who is harmed by players having more choices, and more to enjoy? Why take things away from us? Why do we deserve that?

Just so we have this straight, your problem is not that you are having trouble getting the rewards you easily has before, but rather, that a.net is adding incentive to go to other game modes?

First people twisted the play as you want comment from a reference to the accessibility of exotic gear to meaning they should have everything for whatever they want to do. Now you’re extending that to men that a.net shouldn’t try to draw more players into activities you personally don’t like?

Lol.

With regards to earning gold, I was referring to the changes to dungeon rewards and
World boss rewards, and the addition of areas like sw. I may be fuzzy on the time though, and some of those changes may be more than a year old.

With regards to customizing your character I was referring to bring able to use outfits in combat, but as stuff had been taken or as well, you may be either.

As for laurels, there are points at which you will have more laurels than you otherwise would at that point. At worst I’d call that a draw, though overall you get more laurels.

As for the dailies, yes I’ve read the arguments. Let me ask you this. I’d there were 12 choices for pve dailies but they were all difficult and or time consuming, but entirely available without venturing into pvp or wvw, would that satisfy your desire for choices?

munkiman.3068:

Subdue.5479:

Sytherek.7689:

Subdue.5479:

Sytherek.7689:

Locce.8405:

If they removed the specific objectives from the Daily and instead reverted to just “Daily Events”, “Daily Kills” etc. would we be complaining then? How would that devaluate the argument being made about the Dailies as they are now?

Now, there are aspects of the new dailies I like. Particularly the PvE requirements to go to different zones.

What I don’t like is the lack of choice in various game modes. How does it possibly hurt anything to give us six options in each category instead of four?

It’s probably something silly like dialog box space; they built it for four items only.

Doing that would eliminate my objections.

World it though? Are you asking for more choices or more -easy- choices? If there we two additional choices each day but they were to the effect of “complete arah p4” and "complete skipping stones in under 15 minutes, would you be okay with that?

I asked for more choices. Period.
And earlier, I asked for a better balance. Visiting a vista is a stupidly simple way to get AP. Doing four events only creates mindless zergs.

Hard does not equal interesting.
Fun does not mean simple.

That doesn’t answer my question though. If they added more choices but this choices were more time consuming or difficult than the existing choices, would they satisfy you?

I’m not sure what kill 5o ambient things means to you, but yeah, ther have been at least 2 post that gave random “do this stuff”

If that is your focus, your short sighted.

I don’t see how this is at all relevant to the statement you quoted.