If they removed the specific objectives from the Daily and instead reverted to just “Daily Events”, “Daily Kills” etc. would we be complaining then? How would that devaluate the argument being made about the Dailies as they are now?
Now, there are aspects of the new dailies I like. Particularly the PvE requirements to go to different zones.
What I don’t like is the lack of choice in various game modes. How does it possibly hurt anything to give us six options in each category instead of four?
It’s probably something silly like dialog box space; they built it for four items only.
Doing that would eliminate my objections.
World it though? Are you asking for more choices or more -easy- choices? If there we two additional choices each day but they were to the effect of “complete arah p4” and "complete skipping stones in under 15 minutes, would you be okay with that?
I asked for more choices. Period.
And earlier, I asked for a better balance. Visiting a vista is a stupidly simple way to get AP. Doing four events only creates mindless zergs.Hard does not equal interesting.
Fun does not mean simple.
That doesn’t answer my question though. If they added more choices but this choices were more time consuming or difficult than the existing choices, would they satisfy you?
10 ap for five minutes of effort? Yes please!
I would argue the change in title is more about receiving feedback from both camps in more equal numbers rather than mostly from those who agree with the title, not necessarily a message that they won’t review negative feedback.
These new dailies, and the latest LS instalments for that matter, make a mockery of the much vaunted “Guild Wars 2: Play Your Way” mantra.
Play as you want was specifically about being able to get end game gear stats through multiple channels. That a number of people have chosen to take the quote out of context is not the game’s fault.
If they removed the specific objectives from the Daily and instead reverted to just “Daily Events”, “Daily Kills” etc. would we be complaining then? How would that devaluate the argument being made about the Dailies as they are now?
Now, there are aspects of the new dailies I like. Particularly the PvE requirements to go to different zones.
What I don’t like is the lack of choice in various game modes. How does it possibly hurt anything to give us six options in each category instead of four?
It’s probably something silly like dialog box space; they built it for four items only.
Doing that would eliminate my objections.
World it though? Are you asking for more choices or more -easy- choices? If there we two additional choices each day but they were to the effect of “complete arah p4” and "complete skipping stones in under 15 minutes, would you be okay with that?
Is there a shortage of ap available in pve? I seem to recall that the living story is a huge chunk of ap accessible exclusively in pve only, and even come with other rewards too.
@Krest
The problem I have is that calling the change as a huge pain for pve players is disingenuous. If you absolutely will not give the content a serious look because you’ve already decided you don’t end to, that’s okay, you don’t have to. Today, one of the PvP dailies was point capture, which can be done without even fighting another of player. One of the wvw dailies was kill a dolyak and the other was claim land, CCC which involves killing a veteran and then sitting on s point for a few seconds. All of these can be easily accomplished without fighting another player. Most days I complete the daily in no more than five to ten minutes.
So…. You managed to do a PvP reward without interacting with the PvP community. You managed to do WvW dailies without (or in the most miniscule of ways) interacting with the WvW community…
If “forcibly” ushering players into these game modes isn’t even having an impact on these game modes/communities (which you yourself just argued) then what, by all that is holy in heaven, is the point of “forcing” us there in the first place?
I repeat: if you can do these achievements without even interacting with thise communities (which you just argued), then what is the point of forcing us to go there in the first place?
That’s simple. Getting someone there is the toughest part. Once someone is there, the hope is that they’ll find something they like. If they do, great! If they don’t, then oh well , they are rewarded more than they used to be for going a few minutes out of their way.
This game is at the end of the day all about choices. Is you feel the reward for an activity is worth it, then you’ll do it. If you don’t, then you won’t. I personally run past onions, roots, copper, mithril, but I’ll stop for herbs and orichalcum. The rewards for those are worth it for me. I’ll run cof p1, but generally avoid p3. Again, one is worth it for me. This is the same with the dailies. If the ap and token rewards are worth it for you, then you’ll do them. If they’re not, then you won’t. You’re not forced to do them.
No it’s not, you’re again wrong. Arena designs a game either you play or not. There is nothing passed that, not ever, that is design 101, that is gaming, from a player perspective. You all need to stop, seriously, designing games that don’t actually work. Or, you’re not AAA designers of any game.
Feedback works well when people explain what they don’t care for, this is this thread, you might be fine with is, as i’m ok with it. But OK isn’t good enough. I can’t tell you how many designers have to sacrifice good enough for “epic” fun content.
This is the Arena we have now, sadly, and i bet they know it. I’m sad for it, they really need to build games they love, that’s not what is happening now, if you think so, good for you.
You are being this on your specific view, when in all likelihood the vast majority of players are fine with and even happy with the changes. Since apparently simply stressing it makes it so, you’re wrong.
Or, you can look at it for what it is. All but the achievement portion of the rewards have been shifted to s login reward. You log in. Get those, then decide, hmm I need more quartz, do I want to go to dry top or so I want to do the dailies. Or perhaps, I’ll rush through the dailies and then hang out in dry top.
Think of it this way. If instead the ap were included in the login reward and the dailies has done completely different reward, like perhaps 10 gold on completion, or some kind of token for unique equipment, world you be complaining?
@Krest
The problem I have is that calling the change as a huge pain for pve players is disingenuous. If you absolutely will not give the content a serious look because you’ve already decided you don’t end to, that’s okay, you don’t have to. Today, one of the PvP dailies was point capture, which can be done without even fighting another of player. One of the wvw dailies was kill a dolyak and the other was claim land, CCC which involves killing a veteran and then sitting on s point for a few seconds. All of these can be easily accomplished without fighting another player. Most days I complete the daily in no more than five to ten minutes.
So…. You managed to do a PvP reward without interacting with the PvP community. You managed to do WvW dailies without (or in the most miniscule of ways) interacting with the WvW community…
If “forcibly” ushering players into these game modes isn’t even having an impact on these game modes/communities (which you yourself just argued) then what, by all that is holy in heaven, is the point of “forcing” us there in the first place?
I repeat: if you can do these achievements without even interacting with thise communities (which you just argued), then what is the point of forcing us to go there in the first place?
That’s simple. Getting someone there is the toughest part. Once someone is there, the hope is that they’ll find something they like. If they do, great! If they don’t, then oh well , they are rewarded more than they used to be for going a few minutes out of their way.
This game is at the end of the day all about choices. Is you feel the reward for an activity is worth it, then you’ll do it. If you don’t, then you won’t. I personally run past onions, roots, copper, mithril, but I’ll stop for herbs and orichalcum. The rewards for those are worth it for me. I’ll run cof p1, but generally avoid p3. Again, one is worth it for me. This is the same with the dailies. If the ap and token rewards are worth it for you, then you’ll do them. If they’re not, then you won’t. You’re not forced to do them.
It’d be like a WvW player complaining that they can’t do their WvW dailies so they have to go check out a vista in the Shiverpeaks.
Knowing how easy the dailies in WvW frequently are, it’s really, REALLY hard for me to take the complaints seriously.
If the WvW achievements are so pointlessly effortless, then why not just remove them completely and just award the points from them by default? The fact remains that I do not want to have to do them, and resent that the game requires it to clear the dailies in a reasonable amount of time, and there is no argument that could convince me otherwise.
So don’t do the dailies. Seriously. Exercise your choice not to do them.
We used to be able to do it before," doesn’t really mean anything though. The dailies were replaced by the login reward for all intent and purposes, and the new dailies are really something different. What I’m asking is, what is intrinsically flawed with a system that rewards players for venturing into other game modes?
I apologise, but I strongly disagree. “We used to be able to do it before” means everything. You never take away a player’s ability to make choices without a really good reason to do so (not just talking GWs here, but game design in general). Emphasis being on take away. Yes, the rewards for dailies (other than AP have been shifted to a new system (and I’ve already stated what I think of that system), but that misses half the point: dailies were fun. Dailies were a way to contextualize a gameplay session, or make what you were going to do anyway just that tiny bit more satisfying.
You ask what issue there is with a system that lures players into new game modes (paraphrasing here. Don’t worry I’m not putting words in your mouth). The answer? Absolutely nothing. Zilch. Zip. Nadda.
The problem, which people continually refuse to acknowledge, is that this system isn’t coming to us from nowhere. It’s actively replacing a system that was already in place. And now with the old system gone and this new one in place, an unspecifued number of players who were satisfied are now being woefully underserved.
So now I will ask it again: why does adding more content for some game type/playstyles mean that others had to be gutted?
Hell, this whole debacle could have been avoided if they had implemented the new system, but just left the old PvE dailies in rotation in the new section. Everything we do now would still be there, just in a less restrictive, disappointing way.
… If the old options still existed then the “lure” as you or it wouldn’t be effective. If the girl is the changes is to encourage players to explore other zones and modes, leaving the old dailies in place would be counterproductive.
And let’s be honest here, the old dailies were not any more “fun” then the new ones. At best, they were passive and ignorable, and most likely they just happened is you wander around open world, where as the new ones cause you to have to decide how you want to complete them, or if you even ever to complete them at all that day.
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Think of it this way:
I like lots of different flavors of ice cream.
My wife likes vanilla. Just vanilla.
If all we have is chocolate, my wife doesn’t eat ice cream. Why? Because she doesn’t like chocolate.
That doesn’t make her lazy, or unwilling to try chocolate, or anything bad. She doesn’t like chocolate. No amount of begging (Gaile) or shaming (Others) is going to make her eat chocolate.
She’d rather not eat chocolate, so she doesn’t.
Exactly… If she doesn’t want to do the dailies, then she doesn’t do them. She’s already got her Laurel for logging on and can go do whatever she wants!
Quite frankly, just because you tried something once and didn’t like it doesn’t mean you’ll never like it. I’ve gone through spurts of shrinking dungeon running, wvwing, and pvping, each ending with me feeling like I had gotten bored of them only to be pulled back into something I had given up on before.
For example, today I played more PvP then I had in the previous three months or so, even though I had been playing daily. I hopped in and doing myself having fun, so I stayed.
Perhaps ap if not a sufficient reward, or not an appropriate reward. The idea of reading players for moving around the world and the content is not a bad thing.
Consider this. If the changes also involved a 10 gold bonus for completing three dailies. Do you think all these pve only players would still end to go back to the old system?
@Krest
The problem I have is that calling the change as a huge pain for pve players is disingenuous. If you absolutely will not give the content a serious look because you’ve already decided you don’t end to, that’s okay, you don’t have to. Today, one of the PvP dailies was point capture, which can be done without even fighting another of player. One of the wvw dailies was kill a dolyak and the other was claim land, CCC which involves killing a veteran and then sitting on s point for a few seconds. All of these can be easily accomplished without fighting another player. Most days I complete the daily in no more than five to ten minutes.
(edited by Subdue.5479)
What really baffles me is this. I hate CM. It traumatized me when I was new and I just don’t go there now. I also don’t complain that I don’t get the token for CM. And when I went to make my minstrel, I forced myself to do it for a reward I deemed was worth it. When you don’t want to do a dungeon, or don’t value the rest for it enough to do it, you just don’t do it. When you don’t want to do a puzzle, you just don’t do it. When you don’t want to do fractals, you just don’t do it. All of these things have tangible rewards, yet you’re perfectly capable of choosing not to do them because you don’t feel the reward merits the endeavor. Why is your approach to dailies so different? Objectively speaking. The dailies now are more rewarding and take less time and effort to do, if you’re willing to branch out into other game modes. But if you don’t want to do that, and you also don’t want to do the more difficult pve content, then don’t! What perpetuates this ideology that you’re “forced” to do the dailies? You’re not. They’re optional, just like everything else three is to do in this game.
They aren’t if you’re interested in AP. Basically the old system was fine, let’s just call it how it is. I’m fine personally with it now, it’s more of a pain, sure, but it’s still doable, for me. But, it doesn’t actually improve the game, for me, it makes it less convenient. I liked just being able to play content and get a side reward.
Dungeon rewards for legendaries, while it might suck, i still don’t hate the concept, it was introduced that way and hasn’t changed, it’s a design ideal and it’s stuck around. Dailies have been re-vamped at least 3 times now, for what? What’s the bigger picture we are missing here? First intro was more like this, player feedback changed it and now we are back here, for what reason again? It doesn’t help that we don’t get a broader scope of the whys. So lack of communication hurts all of us.
Saying we changed this because X is coming soon™ would actually be more palatable. Then there is “how long do we wait to know one way or the other”. Seems Gaile is gathering feedback, that’s good, let’s see how long it takes to “fix” issues players have.
I think it’s pretty easy to tell what the purpose the revamp was. They wanted to encourage people to participate in other game modes, so they created incentives to do so. That’s not really a bad thing.
What really baffles me is this. I hate CM. It traumatized me when I was new and I just don’t go there now. I also don’t complain that I don’t get the token for CM. And when I went to make my minstrel, I forced myself to do it for a reward I deemed was worth it. When you don’t want to do a dungeon, or don’t value the rest for it enough to do it, you just don’t do it. When you don’t want to do a puzzle, you just don’t do it. When you don’t want to do fractals, you just don’t do it. All of these things have tangible rewards, yet you’re perfectly capable of choosing not to do them because you don’t feel the reward merits the endeavor. Why is your approach to dailies so different? Objectively speaking. The dailies now are more rewarding and take less time and effort to do, if you’re willing to branch out into other game modes. But if you don’t want to do that, and you also don’t want to do the more difficult pve content, then don’t! What perpetuates this ideology that you’re “forced” to do the dailies? You’re not. They’re optional, just like everything else three is to do in this game.
Your question has already been answered in this thread. The daily system has been changed. Before, people could “complete” the daily (5 tasks) without going into WvW or PvP or a dungeon. Yes, those game modes all have their rewards. Well, they still have those rewards. Now, there are days when solo PvE-only players won’t get their AP. This was never the case before – because they could always get whatever AP minimum completion offered before.
“We used to be able to do it before,” doesn’t really mean anything though. The dailies were replaced by the login reward for all intent and purposes, and the new dailies are really something different. What I’m asking is, what is intrinsically flawed with a system that rewards players for venturing into other game modes?
I think when you take an extremely vague topic like “choice” you should really specify choice with regards to what overall aspect of the game.
There are objectively more things to do in the game today then there were a year ago.
There are objectively more items to customize your character today than there were a year ago.
There are objectively more ways to make gold today than there were a year ago.
There are objectively more ways to earn ap today than a year ago.
Then there are some things that have been changed which have been poorly implemented, even though the concepts themselves are solid. The biggest offender of this is the trait acquisition system. Questing for traits is great, but the quests should have been more relevant to the trait both in terms of activity and level.
Then there are people who have no common sense at all and see loss of choice even when there is more choice, like with the case of laurels. Resting through that argument made my head hurt. Previously, you log in, do five dailies and get your laurel. Today, log in, get you laurel, and do whatever you went. How the heck do you see that as less choice. I have no idea.
Even with the case of dailies, considering the laurel has been separated from them and the number you have to complete has been reduced to three while the choices remain at twelve, that’s objectively more choice, even if those choice aren’t necessarily ones you like.
Where is there objectively less choice?
What really baffles me is this. I hate CM. It traumatized me when I was new and I just don’t go there now. I also don’t complain that I don’t get the token for CM. And when I went to make my minstrel, I forced myself to do it for a reward I deemed was worth it. When you don’t want to do a dungeon, or don’t value the rest for it enough to do it, you just don’t do it. When you don’t want to do a puzzle, you just don’t do it. When you don’t want to do fractals, you just don’t do it. All of these things have tangible rewards, yet you’re perfectly capable of choosing not to do them because you don’t feel the reward merits the endeavor. Why is your approach to dailies so different? Objectively speaking. The dailies now are more rewarding and take less time and effort to do, if you’re willing to branch out into other game modes. But if you don’t want to do that, and you also don’t want to do the more difficult pve content, then don’t! What perpetuates this ideology that you’re “forced” to do the dailies? You’re not. They’re optional, just like everything else three is to do in this game.
(edited by Subdue.5479)
Is a Superior Sigil of Bloodlust worth having in general pug dungeons?
Have you been completing the dailies?
All I can gather from what you’re posting it that you find it “okay” to do something that would be beneficial to one group of people, but you find it “less okay” to do something that would be beneficial to another group of people. And you’ve come to these judgement calls based on an idea that you perceive to be some kind universal truth, which it really isn’t because in truth it’s nothing other than personal preference.
Really, you shouldn’t be using the word “logic” or any derivation of it, because nothing you say is based on logic and you don’t even realise it.
Laurels are universally beneficial. Even if there isn’t any laurel locked content you are interested in, they can be converted easily into gold. Ap on the other hand, has very little if any impact on gameplay for most users.
Whether or not everyone understands or cares about the difference does not change that the difference is there, and is a logical reason why switching the two would not be a good idea.
While the rate would be the same, assuming they were doing both every day, the choice is not. You can choose to skip a day of ap and just take a day longer to finish.
But you’re looking at it in a totally irrelevant way. The reality of it is that we can only make use of laurels at moments when we reach a milestone number that we need for a purchase we’re after. If you miss a daily laurel, you just hit your milestone a day later, exactly because of the open-endedness of the currency. There’s always another day tomorrow. You’re hung up over arbitrary totals you can’t make anymore, but those totals are irrelevant. Missing a day only means that your purchasing power curve is a day behind, just like someone’s AP gain curve is a day behind.
Except someone’s ap curve has a limit, one which by the way, at least prior to the change, a good number of ap hunters had already reached if I recall correctly. If ap matters to you, you know that you are not permanently behind this’d people because of the cap. When it comes to laurels, you are materially behind when you miss a day, forever.
This isn’t to say that your suggestion couldn’t work. We know it could, as laurels were already locked behind far more time consuming activities in the previous system. I’m just saying, it wouldn’t make sense to lock the uncapped currency behind the activities and leave the capped achievements in the login reward.
And like I said to me personally it wouldn’t make a difference as I do the dailies anyway. And if your switching suggestion were to be implemented it would still be better than the system we had before.
You can go on and on and on and keep saying the same thing over and over and over, but you’re only confirming again and again (and again) that the difference between AP gain and laurel gain only matters to people who care about maxing their laurel gain. You’re proving my point without realizing it, it seems.
Also, if it worked with the previous system, as you admit, and my hypothetical reversal just brings us back to a slight variation of the previous system, how the kitten can it be “illogical” as you claim it to be?
You can drive with one foot on each pedal. It’s stupid, dangerous, and uncomfortable, but you could do it, your car would stop and go still. That doesn’t mean it’s a logical way of doing things.
More to the point, I’ve told you my reasoning for why such a switch would be illogical, and your argument has basically been “oh it wouldn’t be that bad.” What justification do you have other than that your like ap more for wanting such a change?
(edited by Subdue.5479)
Whether or not everyone understands or cares about the difference does not change that the difference is there, and is a logical reason why switching the two would not be a good idea.
While the rate would be the same, assuming they were doing both every day, the choice is not. You can choose to skip a day of ap and just take a day longer to finish.
But you’re looking at it in a totally irrelevant way. The reality of it is that we can only make use of laurels at moments when we reach a milestone number that we need for a purchase we’re after. If you miss a daily laurel, you just hit your milestone a day later, exactly because of the open-endedness of the currency. There’s always another day tomorrow. You’re hung up over arbitrary totals you can’t make anymore, but those totals are irrelevant. Missing a day only means that your purchasing power curve is a day behind, just like someone’s AP gain curve is a day behind.
Except someone’s ap curve has a limit, one which by the way, at least prior to the change, a good number of ap hunters had already reached if I recall correctly. If ap matters to you, you know that you are not permanently behind this’d people because of the cap. When it comes to laurels, you are materially behind when you miss a day, forever.
This isn’t to say that your suggestion couldn’t work. We know it could, as laurels were already locked behind far more time consuming activities in the previous system. I’m just saying, it wouldn’t make sense to lock the uncapped currency behind the activities and leave the capped achievements in the login reward.
And like I said to me personally it wouldn’t make a difference as I do the dailies anyway. And if your switching suggestion were to be implemented it would still be better than the system we had before.
(edited by Subdue.5479)
You can’t catch up in laurels because laurels are uncapped. A Laurel you earn today will never make up for a laurel you missed yesterday. This is in complete contrast to daily ap which is capped.
And why is that bad?
It’s not bad. What would be bad is the two were switched. Right now, if you decide to skip a day of dailies, it just means it will take you a day longer to each the cap. If it were laurels that you had to earn, and you skipped a day, you will have permanently lost that laurel.
256 laurels is cap. i Could be wrong on this, but i had 256 and couldn’t get anymore so i spent them on rings/mats. But, maybe they fixed it? I dunno, but it was capped or at least i thought is was at 256. Doesn’t matter though, not the point. Maybe you seem to keep missing?
It’s a choice limiter, period, that’s really all it is. End of story?
I’ve never heard of such a cap and it’s nowhere on the wiki. If they happened to you. You should report it as a bug.
Of course there’s a difference, duh… I’m just not assuming like you seem to do that everyone cares about the “open ended currency” as much as you do. I for one don’t.
If things were reversed, and people cared, they’d still get both at the same rate as they do now. You can see that, right?
The only practical difference would be that the ‘laurel lovers’ would be the ones who had to do the legwork. If that would be a problem for laurels, why isn’kitten problem now for someone who for reasons of his own has decided he needs to max his AP as quickly as he can? People set their own priorities, you don’t get to set them for everyone else.
Whether or not everyone understands or cares about the difference does not change that the difference is there, and is a logical reason why switching the two would not be a good idea.
While the rate would be the same, assuming they were doing both every day, the choice is not. You can choose to skip a day of ap and just take a day longer to finish.
It’s easier to think of this in terms of a fixed period of time. Let’s say you can earn 100 apples year, at a rate of at most one apple a day. You can choose to skip earning your apple 265 times without being any worse off.
On the other hand, if there is no cap, you can earn 365 apples in one year, but each day you choose to skip leaves you with one less apple for that year.
Because of the cap on how many apples you can earn in one year, the first option does not leave you worse off by choosing to skip a few days.
Edit: Also, just a clarification: I’m doing the dailies every day, and even have a post here tracking how long it takes me each day. Switching ap and laurel would not directly affect me. I’m just pointing out why logically it would not work.
(edited by Subdue.5479)
Are you just playing dumb or do you really not see the difference between a fixed goal and an open ended currency?
You can’t catch up in laurels because laurels are uncapped. A Laurel you earn today will never make up for a laurel you missed yesterday. This is in complete contrast to daily ap which is capped.
And why is that bad?
It’s not bad. What would be bad is the two were switched. Right now, if you decide to skip a day of dailies, it just means it will take you a day longer to each the cap. If it were laurels that you had to earn, and you skipped a day, you will have permanently lost that laurel.
You can’t catch up in laurels because laurels are uncapped. A Laurel you earn today will never make up for a laurel you missed yesterday. This is in complete contrast to daily ap which is capped.
That doesn’t mean it’s not time-gated. If you can only progess ‘x’ per unit of time toward a given goal, you’re looking at a time gate, even if the goal is a finite number instead of an infinite. It might take Bob up to over 4.5 years to catch up depending on at what point they went out of synch. That has to be the worst kitten time gate ever.
Being capped is a whole other thing that doesn’t have anything to do with time-gating at all.
Like I said, probably the wrong term. Still, you are focusing on semantics rather than the actual explanation for why it would not make sense to switch the two.
Laurels are a time gated currency. Ap is not. It makes no sense to exchange the system. You will never be able to “make up” a laurel that you missed, weigh is not the case for ap. You also don’t spend ap, like you so laurels.
AP is also time-gated. I don’t know how you could ever think it isn’t. Also, you can “make up” on a laurel that you missed exactly like you miss out on daily AP. It doesn’t matter whether or not one is a currency and the other isn’t, both add up to give you access to other things.
Besides, if you consider AP to not be time-gated, you will have to conclude that laurels also aren’t time gated, because gaining AP will give you laurels.
Bob and Gerry each log in every day and do their dailies. One day, Bob gets sick and doesn’t show up, so Gerry goes on without him. The next day, and every day after, they go on to do the dailies together again. Bob will always have one laurel less than Gerry, but eventually Gerry will hit the Ap cap on dailies and Bob will catch up to him.
Perhaps time gated was the wrong word there, but then again ap is not even a currency, so it’s odd that you would get focused on the time gated issue.
(edited by Subdue.5479)
Laurels are a time gated currency. Ap is not. It makes no sense to exchange the system. You will never be able to “make up” a laurel that you missed, weigh is not the case for ap. You also don’t spend ap, like you so laurels.
The effort required for the reward should be interesting, not a list of stupid pet tricks. They should make me want to play, not make me do things that have no inherent appeal, like standing on a roof in the Black Citadel. They shouldn’t make me feel like a dog doing stupid tricks for a few treats. If they can’t make dailies like that, I’ll settle for dailies that get completed without special effort at all, like we had before.
Edit: And by the way, WvWers and PvPers have complained.
First of all, “we” didn’t have that before. Maybe you did because you just wandered around open world, but what was that thing you said about generalizing you’re experiences? There are many people who enjoy wvw, pvp, fractals, etc. Those things do have inherent appeal, even if it’s not to you.
And I still don’t understand how harvesting plants, visiting Laurel vendors, dodging in front of an enemy over and over again, killing ambients, or any of the other trivially easy and not particularly interesting dailies before are any different from the ones you consider pet tricks now.
Consider this… It was a natural thing. I can’t speak for everyone, but just playing gave you the AP. I could do 1 or all 12, now it’s a 3 or nothing deal. Today i don’t want to play WvW and i can’t be around for X world boss, or fit time into doing Ascalon events for 20 minutes (yes i know, sometimes it only takes 5). I’m now stuck, i can’t even earn 1 AP for doing one daily. Or maybe i can do 3 things on the old list (general), least i’d get 3 AP. Now i get none, period, meaning it was a general thing not how it is now.
Personally, even as an AP hunter, with “some” time to spare, i really am not interested in viewing vista A for the 15th time. I get they had to throw cheese in for the cracker, but come on, you can’t possibly not think this isn’t jumping through hoops, can you? What does it solve? I’d love to know what you actually think viewing a vista actually does for the good of the game?
Most of this is “cheese”, it’s trying to solve a much bigger problem, it’s tossing a bone to people that actually login and play, without trying to make it blatantly obvious. I mean don’t people feel cheap to get rewarded for just logging in? Seriously, any game in the past that did that, was “desperate” and failed within months. I’ve been here before, it actually makes me sick to think of the level this game has dropped too.
I literally hate to point at this and say anything, but I LOVE ARENA and THIS GAME, but kitten they keep making it harder and harder to WANT to PLAY IT.
How in the same post do you argue in favor of dailies that just happen to you and then argue against login rewards? How is receiving the reward at login and then going off to do your own thing worse for you than logging on, doing your own thing, and eventually having the reward happen to you?
I prefer to spend my limited okay time dungeoning. Most of the dailies indeed require me to go out of my way…
I wasn’t saying the old dailies were great for all play styles — they were pretty scant for other than casual PVE. I’d totally support new options.
I just never understand why ANet has to rip out the old options when making changes. What dailies use to do for me — they don’t do anymore. I realize they work better now for others, but I bet that could have been accomplished without trashing my option.
Same with traits, same with greatest fear. Why does ANet feel compelled to slash and burn?
The generic options were likely removed because a.net wanted to use the dailies to move people around to under utilized content.
Realistically though, it’s the login reward that replaced the old dailies, not the current dailies themselves. A.net could likely have avoided much of this backlash if they had renamed the systems appropriately.
The effort required for the reward should be interesting, not a list of stupid pet tricks. They should make me want to play, not make me do things that have no inherent appeal, like standing on a roof in the Black Citadel. They shouldn’t make me feel like a dog doing stupid tricks for a few treats. If they can’t make dailies like that, I’ll settle for dailies that get completed without special effort at all, like we had before.
Edit: And by the way, WvWers and PvPers have complained.
First of all, “we” didn’t have that before. Maybe you did because you just wandered around open world, but what was that thing you said about generalizing you’re experiences? There are many people who enjoy wvw, pvp, fractals, etc. Those things do have inherent appeal, even if it’s not to you.
And I still don’t understand how harvesting plants, visiting Laurel vendors, dodging in front of an enemy over and over again, killing ambients, or any of the other trivially easy and not particularly interesting dailies before are any different from the ones you consider pet tricks now.
What I can’t fathom is this permeating assumption that the new dailies are some sort of huge time/effort investment. They have been designed to move you around the map, yes. The idea is that you might find something you end up liking and stay longer. You don’t have to though. If all you want us the ap, you can complete the dailies in 5 to 10 minutes and then head on over to wherever else you want to go.
So, post about your own experiences. Don’t falsely attribute them to other posters who have clearly stated their own experiences repeatedly. Arguing in bad faith isn’t helping anyone.
Have you noticed that pvp players haven’t complained? Neither have wvw players? Ap hunters? This isn’t just my experience, it’s the experience for most of the play styles. Easy, accessible dailies with greater rewards is a benefit to everyone.
It’s pretty obvious that a.net’s goal with the new dailies is to move players around to under utilized content, and they’ve done it in a way such that the incentive to move around is there, but if you don’t want to, you’re not forced to as all but the ap reward has been moved to the login reward.
My question to you is this: what is intrinsically wrong with being expected to go out of your way for a reward?
You previously had to do 5 dailies.
The old dailies were easy.
You received 5 ap for doing 5 dailies.
You now only need to do 3 dailies.
The new dailies are easy.
You now get 10 ap for doing 3 dailies.The old dailies were mostly general. You did them as you played. They might divert you down a slightly different path, like you might actually do that jumping puzzle you’d otherwise skip, but they were easy to incorporate into your play.
The new dailies are specific. They are quick, easy tasks you clear before you start playing. They feel like stupid old NPC delivery quests to get your daily hamster pellet.
Big difference.
I prefer to spend my limited okay time dungeoning. Most of the dailies indeed require me to go out of my way, including:
Gatherer
Event completer
Laurel vendor
Daily activity
Ambient slayer
Kill variety
Heck, even dodger and reviver usually required going out of my way, depending on my dungeon rotation that day as quick clears require less dodging, and result in few if any deaths. I often found myself going to Brisbane to that heart with all the dead around it for reviving.
Only a very specific playfully was having this "never going out of your way "experience.
I’m not contesting any of that. The problem is in the things you’re disingenuously leaving out, things that have been stated by various people, over and over in this thread. I’m not going to repeat them for you because you already know them. I don’t do stupid pet tricks on the forum either.
Thank you for confirming that you agree the new dailies are both easy and more rewarding than the previous dailies.
Sarcasm doesn’t work if it has no basis in truth.
Which of the following are you contesting?
You previously had to do 5 dailies.
The old dailies were easy.
You received 5 ap for doing 5 dailies.
You now only need to do 3 dailies.
The new dailies are easy.
You now get 10 ap for doing 3 dailies.
These are the “truths” upon which my sarcastic comment is based.
“Ugh. Darn you a.net! How dare you give me 10 ap for completing three trivially easy tasks when I was perfectly happy getting 5 ap for completing those other five trivially easy tasks!?”
That’s a rather silly way to look at the new system. I thought you liked it. Had a change of heart?
Also, really it’s enough with the sarcastic dog references. Daily dodger, reviver and all the other generic dailies were no different than the vista viewer.
Better get used to it or stop reading my posts, because it’s the only way I will ever refer to the current system of dalies. Stupid pet tricks.
Sarcasm.
My experience and opinions in the guild are quite the opposite, you log in and get the usual rewards just for starting the game up (seriously what extra effort?).
I’m not getting the rewards I consider the usual ones. All I get is more laurels and other stuff I have plenty of.
Do not feel like doing a daily? No sweat you already got the general rewards (laurels, mystic coins, experience)
Scraps I don’t need or want.
Rewards like pristine fractal relics, rare gear and pvp reward progression are great incentives for the specific activities of the day. These rewards were definitely not attainable through daillies in the old system. Again rewards for no effort compared to the old system.
Not interested, I got plenty of all of that when I played the specific content in the past.
The only thing you might struggle with is completing the daily in PVE for AP, which admittedly I really do not care about personally.
And that’s just because you already get what was originally the reward you cared about for them for free when you log on.
However doing specific activites will definitely give a better sense of achievement, than for example completing your daily dodger or killing 50 monsters/ambient creatures.
Yes, standing on the roof of a building in the Black Citadel or harvesting some plants in the jungle is so much more fulfilling. Maybe if I were a dog.
“Ugh. Darn you a.net! How dare you give me 10 ap for completing three trivially easy tasks when I was perfectly happy getting 5 ap for completing those other five trivially easy tasks!?”
Also, really it’s enough with the sarcastic dog references. Daily dodger, reviver and all the other generic dailies were no different than the vista viewer.
(edited by Subdue.5479)
This sounds like an issue with your client/computer/connection.
Make it a playable instrument.
Please, and thank you.
Obviously, you will counter that there are fewer PvE-centric options and you would be correct.
In his original post, Guhracie stated in no uncertain terms that he was speaking primarily with regards to PvE, his play mode of choice. So yes, there are absolutely, positively, without any question far fewer choices of PvE achievements to do. But after 4+ pages it perhaps doesn’t get specified in every post anymore. The OPs original issue is that we have less choice in PvE achievements now, which is unquestionably true.
However, the stated purpose of the new daily system is to get players to explore new game modes.
After two years, most players have already explored other game modes. (Gotta do something to keep things fresh). We’ve explored many niches and we already know the things we like to do. This whole thing reeks of “New Player Experience” again, if you ask me; trying to tell newbies where to go and what to do at the expense of the veteran players.
______________________________But back to PvE choices. I have always thought it unfair that PvPers and WvWers had fewer selections aimed specifically at their area of interest. It’s great that they’ve evened out the score in that respect, but as many people have pointed out the choices are still very limiting (play a specific Profession, etc.)
Yes, many of the Dailies are ridiculously (even stupidly) easy, and PvEers could go do non-PvE things to finish them. But this is a game, not a job. We play to have fun, not be told what to do by someone else. We need more freedom of choice in PvE, WvW, and PvP. Many players only want to play one of those three modes, and 4 options is not very many in that light.
Give us more options, and give us “meatier” options. No more “view a Vista in Queensdale”. That’s not an achievement. That’s “kill 10 rats”.
The problem with this point of view is the assumption that PVE players are somehow forced to do WvW or PvP content. They’re not. In fact, quite the opposite. With the bulk of rewards pulled from dailies and placed in the logins, more and more dailies are an optional endeavor. It’s no different from not being able to wear Arah armor because you don’t want to do the Arah dungeon, or not getting the 10 achievement points for a jumping puzzle because you don’t want to do the jumping puzzle.
As the person you quoted stated, and you conveniently ignored, the point of the daily revamp is to encourage people to explore other game features. Encourage, not force.
@Banrigh: I have yet to take longer than 10 minutes to complete the dailies since they came out with the revamp.
are you doing ONLY PvE dailies???
No. Why should the game be balanced around your own self imposed limitations?
Indeed.
But with several 80’s and no self imposed limitations, 10 minutes seems a bit quick for all of the dailies to date.
Could you share your secrets? Also is that 10 minutes to do all of the dailies, or to reach completionist?
That’s just to get the daily completionist. Yesterday I was bored and decided to do a few more of them for fun afterwards, but generally I just do enough to get the AP. A few days ago I started tracking my progress, starting a timer once I am ready to start hunting. You can view that in this thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Daily-Completion
12/23/2014
Total Time: 4:43
Mined some ore in Blazeridge (Teracarorunda is my favorite gathering spot in all of Ascalon), Waypointed to the vista in Black Citadel, and then headed off to WvW to capture a ruin/kill a dolyak, whichever came first. I ended up capturing the ruin as there were no dolyaks nearby at the time.
@Banrigh: I have yet to take longer than 10 minutes to complete the dailies since they came out with the revamp.
are you doing ONLY PvE dailies???
No. Why should the game be balanced around your own self imposed limitations?
@Banrigh: I have yet to take longer than 10 minutes to complete the dailies since they came out with the revamp.
~Snip~
I’m also wondering if the reason the requirements are so specific is to generate more revenue via waypoint usage.
~Snip~Revenue for who, A.net?, you do realize that waypoints take Silver and Copper to use, those are in-game currency, not real life dollars, and if you don’t have a few Silver on you at any given time to use a couple of WP’s…that’s an entirely separate issue.
The less gold someone has access to, the more likely they are to purchase germs to supplement that gold.
Ha! I’m sure someone buys gems with cash, convert it to gold just because the nickle and dime cost of waypoints makes saving coin impossible. If it costs so much, get off the train. Or walk.
Wp costs are not a not deal to me, and they may not be for you either, but just reading through all the wp whining will show it is a big deal for some.