Guild Wars 2

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Subdue.5479:

So what you’re saying is, people who enjoy working to towards a largely insignificant stat increase should not be able to do so because you are not willing to put forth that effort, even though if you opt NOT to work towards it, the game is pretty much exactly the same for you now as it has always been?

Just sounds like greed to me.

What sounds like greed to me is people buying a game that advertised, “Everyone should have max statistical gear by level 80.” and moaning about nothing to work for — when every other game out there not only offered but advertised stat increase progression.

I agree with you and I don’t agree with you.

You seem to liken this to every other game out there, but it’s not. That is to say, nothing prevents someone from doing all the content, whether there is BIS gear that requires grind in the game or not.

There’s a difference between what we have here and a gear treadmill. If Anet keeps releasing more tiers of gear, you’d be right to compare it to other games. But other games continuously introduce more tiers of gear.

Frankly, I don’t think we’ll see anything else but legendary which will have the same stats as ascended from this point on, because there are enough people that will play to grind achievement points, so Anet has found the other solution they needed.

However, no one can say for sure, until we see what the future holds.

I made no comparison between GW2 and other games. I did not mention treadmills, or further gear tiers. I did say that virtually every other MMO offers stat inflation/progression. I did say that GW2 (pre-launch) advertised easy to obtain BiS.

I agree with most of what you’ve said… I just don’t see what it has to do with what I said. All I was doing was questioning the moral rectitude of those who bought GW2 despite that advertising and complained until harder-to-obtain stat inflation was added, and then get on their high horse when others complain.

Please link me to where GW2 is “advertised” as easy to obtain BiS. The closest I’ve been able to find is the manifesto where it actually says “You don’t have to wait to start having fun,” which is true with exotic, and even rare gear.

Allanon.9072:

Next time use search
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/VIP-Membership
And we will not get this system no one want it here.

Aside from the resurrection buff, which needs further explanation, I don’t understand why you wouldn’t want this here.

There wasn’t anything confusing about that. Only when buying gems with real money do you see the term “purchase.” When using in game gold, the terms they use are “exchange” and “trade.”

Kevan.8912:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

- Like vertical progression, so long as it’s not pointlessly “watch the numbers go up”. Don’t mind it if it’s that way so long as it’s not mindless grind one notch out of a thousand to hit the next increase.

i think that this is a sort of mindless grind watching the numbers go up (of mats, gold and laurels…and, although it is just a little change, also of gear stats).
some hundreds hours too much for me to enjoy.
lifelong hours doing some things i’d never had done if it wasn’t required for ascended.
and that i’m not gonna do! (craft on my main is zeroed. sell everything…and 400k karma i will never use)

however, thanks for your “feedback” ^^
de gustibus non disputandum est

See, this is actually the point that everyone on the other side of the argument is saying to you.

YOU CAN CHOOSE NOT TO MAKE ASCENDED ITEMS. NOT MAKING THE ASCENDED ITEMS DOES NOT LOCK YOU OUT OF ANY CONTENT.

imsoenthused.1634:

lordkrall.7241:

imsoenthused.1634:

Oh, that. You got enough of those points just exploring the areas and doing quests that I never felt like I was grinding to meet those requirements. Even later when I went back to get 10000 Luxon points, just to finish up the protector title, it was a negligible grind compared to the nightmare of ascended gear. Something you could knock out in an afternoon.

And yet it is REQUIRED, while in GW2 you are not mechanically blocked form anything for not having Ascended gear.

And no, just doing quests in GW1 (without doing repeating stuff) you would get about 8500 points (for Luxon), which is 1500 points less than you would need in order to progress. Sunspear also required quite a bit of going out of your way in order to get enough.
At least back when I did it around release.

Sure it was not really that hard or annoying to do it, but the point remains that it was actually REQUIRED, and yet people don’t seem to have any issue with it, while they have major issues with the non-required Ascended gear in GW2.

And what you are ignoring is that for many gamers, myself included, ascended armor is required by the the simple virtue of being BiS. So, again for me and gamers like me, the ony difference between ascended gear and grinding out those kurzick and luxon points is that getting the the points was something that didn’t take too long and that I enjoyed doing, while ascended gear takes way too long and I don’t enjoy doing it at all.

So what you’re saying is, people who enjoy working to towards a largely insignificant stat increase should not be able to do so because you are not willing to put forth that effort, even though if you opt NOT to work towards it, the game is pretty much exactly the same for you now as it has always been?

Just sounds like greed to me.

stale.9785:

The most extreme damage difference would be on zerker gear, wherein the difference is roughly 13% in straight direct damage. Add to that the increased proc on crit (once more per 10 hits) and then the extra damage on crit (79% crit damage with ascended, vs 69% with exotics.) So, not only will the person in ascended gear hit for 13% more all the time, but on a crit, they’re going to hit for 10% extra damage, and they’re going to get a critical hit more often.

See, this right here shows how misinformed you are. The 13% increase in damage that you’re so hung up on already includes critical strike chance, critical strike damage and so on. Do the math.

It’s not a huge difference, but it’s one that will win fights, everything else being equal. It’s something that becomes extremely notable when running glass cannon builds.

“Everything else being equal…” This has been part of your mantra the entire time. When, in WvW, has everything been equal? Certainly not when one side brings more players. Certainly not when one side has grinded more WXP levels and has access to more WXP boosted stats and effects. Certainly not when one side has spent more on siege, foods, etc. WvW has never, ever, been an “everything else being equal” scenario. Ascended items is merely another avenue.

Beyond that, they could have spent the dev hours wasted on the time gated, gear treadmill, satisfy-the-game-locusts garbage that outright reversed the premise they sold the game under creating something worthwhile.

Actually, I don’t recall them advertising on “no vertical progression.” In fact, vertical progression has been a part of the game from the very beginning. You don’t start off with exotic gear after all.

stale.9785:

Nope – it’s the actual description I bought the game under that has me jerked around. I took part in the conversations with the dev teams, followed the blogs, and provided feedback. Right up until 2 months after the game went live, every comment they had on gear could be summed up as “everybody will be able to have BiS gear when they hit max level”. Gear was going to follow the same guidelines as GW1.

What that means is that the BiS gear I got in 2005 would still be BiS, were I to log in right now. I wouldn’t be behind. I could roll a new character, and be at max level with absolute best gear inside of 20 hours.

This is what we were told gear would be. It’s how it was implemented. They changed that.

Yea yea yea we’ve all heard the spiel already. But quite frankly, in just about every way, exotic gear is still basically BiS for the simple fact that you can do everything in exotic gear. Heck, really you could do it in rare gear if you wanted to. You see, BiS in GW2 is different from just about every other MMO. In other MMOs, not having BiS gear locks you out of content.

Expand your views on what constitutes Best In Slot.

I’ve not once denied that there’s nothing in-game that can’t be done in exotics. That’s not the point. The fact that, all other things being equal, the better geared person WILL win in any comparison – that’s a problem. Dungeon runs? Well, the fellow in full ascended will be dealing (assuming zerker gear) about 14% more damage than the guy in exotics – he will die less, and be done faster. In wvw, it won’t make an individual difference, mostly. Across a large group? The side with the most people kitted out with Ascended WILL win.

Uh… Let’s break that down. First of all, ascended items give at most a 10% advantage. But let’s say you’re right, and it’s 14%. Then let’s assuming that dungeons are 100% fighting. No cut scenes, no waiting for stuff to talk, just all fighting. The average dungeon right now takes 15 minutes for a moderately competent group, with few to no deaths, and usually no wipes. Thus, a 14% increase in damage from a party that’s wearing 100% ascended gear would mean a 14% increase in clear speed, saving them a WHOPPING 2 minutes. Stop the presses everyone! Of course, the difference is actually closer to 5-10%, and there are cut scenes and breaks, and running parts in dungeons, so in reality, you only save a minute or so, if that. Gamebreaking, right?

And as for WvW, as I’ve already stated previously, that gold investment is ALREADY a huge factor in WvW. WvW has never been about equal footing. The side that’s willing to put more into has always had an advantage. This is just another avenue for that.

Hell, people have already started demanded Ascended gear pinging for dungeons. Mind you, to me that’s a sign that I don’t want to play with those people in the first place – but it will become more common.

I dungeon every day, CoF, HotW, CoE, AC, SE, Fractals, and occasionally Arah if I have time. The ONLY place I’ve ever seen anyone asking for ascended items is fractals, which is specifically for the agony resistance. That’s nothing new. That said, even if asking for ascended items does become a thing, so what? You can gather up all the other ascended haters and form your own group.

Ascended items allow people to play the way they want to play, without affecting how you play the game.

Budchgon.2108:

VOLKON.1290:

Kevan.8912:

i really loved gw2.
the setting. the plot. every single piece of it. the lore. the ost i bought.
i used to buy gems just to support devs. just spend for getting skins

since the introduction of ascnded, and the inhuman amount of gold and time to get it, i feel in prison.
and uninstalling it is a pain for me
i really hope that something will change

ascended to be gained in more ways? (and shorter ways, am a casual)
make grind only a way to skins and cosmetic chnges or exp powerups or similar.
i d like to log in once a day, and feel that also that little time i play is a pleasure.
not that i m always behind the others

Kevan, stop doing that to yourself. You don’t need ascended… it’s simply there as a final carrot for those that prefer to have a carrot to chase. Don’t ignore the rest of the salad bar because you can’t reach the carrot yet. I have no ascended weapons or armors yet, and I’m quite an active player. Yes, I’m taking my time working towards my first ascended piece, but in the WvW and PvE I do it’s not necessary and doesn’t hold me back in the slightest. Just stop worrying about something you don’t need to worry about. The pressure you’re feeling is self-inflicted.

As a mainly WvW player, I feel the 15%-30% difference between full Exotic and ascended is necessary to continue to be effective.
I would love to change my Warrior from Condition to Zerker but it would take months to get all the Ascended gear I would need to compete :-(

See, I’m glad you brought up WvW. What about:

Guard killer: +100 power, +100 condition damage
Defense against guards: +250 Vitality
Siege Masteries: Do more damage, attack faster, have special effects
Siege Bunker: Take less damage from siege
Supply Master: Carrying more supply

And then there’s of course foods, making it possible to be almost completely immune to condition damage unless the caster is using food specifically to counter yours. Or heck, how about just the toxic foods that add 100 to a stat, but cost 30s for 30 minutes of use?

How about the gold cost of siege? Omega Golems, Superior Carts, Rams, Catapults, etc, those aren’t free you know.

WvW has always been an environment where those who are willing to invest their time and gold are able to secure an advantage. Ascended gear is merely another avenue.

stale.9785:

Subdue, I see it as failing both groups. The ones who crave treadmills won’t be satisfied with the ascended + infusions. If the treadmill stops, that group is going to leave again. (That’s on the assumption that any came back, which I doubt mightily)

Those of us who HATE vertical progression are still going to be upset over being jerked about.

For me, it’s a lose/lose. The only group who won’t be disenchanted would be those who bought the game with no expectations, and thus had no preconception for what the game would be.

Uh, the price of silk has gone up over 3000%. I guarantee you people are working on ascended armors. Whether people came back or not, I have no way of knowing. But are there people motivated to play more because of it, obviously.

And as for you losing, well, that’s just in your head. I guarantee you can’t name a single thing in this game that you can’t do without ascended armors, other than have ascended armors. You could play this game exactly as you have been playing, doing all the things you enjoy, as if ascended armors didn’t exist. That your own neurosis at what other people might be able to have because they want to work for it has you feeling jerked around, well, that’s on you.

Honestly, A.Net is going to take fire no matter what they do. They have a small but very vocal minority – you guys – complaining about vertical progression, and then they have a massive exodus of players leaving the game because they’ve got nothing left to accomplish after 3 weeks of playing.

I think they handled the situation very well. They released a tier of items to work towards for those who want to have something to strive for which does not give a boost large enough to obsolete the more accessible exotic gear.

All in all, good job A.Net.

Ascended is another stat log on the fire not easily obtained as those buffs, in the end every little addition adds more to the advantage.

When there are ACCEPTED incremental stat advantages already available which exceed those offered by ascended gears, it’s rather silly to point at ascended gear and scream “NONONO THAT’S TOO MUCH!”

The stats from wvw are not always on, and you have to keep building the stacks again when you die, true it’s not exactly hard to do but it takes time after every single death. After the account wxp changes it most likely won’t be a big factor either as most will probably have the points for them.

Yea, sorry I’m not buying this. “Not exactly hard” is an understatement. It takes mere seconds to rebuild your stacks after death if you’re moving with even just 2-3 people. You have them up for pretty much the entire time you’re in WvW. And getting those buffs is not easy either. I played the same character in WvW for MONTHS to get just the defensive buffs. Your WvW rank has to be something like 120 to max just one of the stacking lines, or about 240 to get both. Each of those levels most likely takes you an hour to gain at least, unless you’re in a very efficient karma train during a very lopsided matchup. It takes much longer to get those than it does to get ascended gear.

I currently don’t have those buffs maxed on any of my characters but I’m looking forward to the change to get them maxed out. The difference between those buffs and ascended though is I know eventually just by playing I will get them, while ascended is a gold sucking grind hole that I don’t even want to bother with, I’d rather play without them and be angry at anet until they finally put a wvw way to obtain them.

Don’t you get everything you need to make ascended items just by playing? This is such silly logic.

Maybe because I’m a necro I really don’t feel hampered by not having extra damage on an arrow cart, stuff that can easily be avoided, the other buffs against objects have no reason to bother me either. Direct character stats will always seem more important than situational buffs which most of those wvw buffs cover.

Hop onto your WvW server and ask any of the wellknown commanders which ranks and buffs are the most important, the most useful. Then come back and tell me the stats are more important.

I’m sorry but you’re stretching way way too far to avoid the glaring hypocrisy in pointing to stat advantages in WvW as an argument against ascended items.

Henri Blanche.8276:

Heh. I like “Name in use already”.

Clearly the differences make a difference to some folks, even in PvE. I’ve been kicked out of a dungeon PUG because I couldn’t ping three ascended items. And I’ve heard of similar incidents occurring to other people.

I’m going to go out on a limb here and guess that the dungeon you were kicked from was Fractals, where you need a certain number of ascended items to survive agony, which is a mechanic that has existed for quite some time.

The point that the OP was making is that it’s not just the fact that there’s a stat bonus that’s an issue. The real issue is HOW MUCH the stat increase is. And before any of you chime in that any increase is too much, would there really be this much outrage if it was a 1 point increase? Probably not. How much it increases by matters.

Since WvW has become the main point of contention, consider the following:

In WvW a person who has grinded enough can have:

Guard Killer: +100 power / +100 condition damage
Defense Against Guards: +250 Vitality

Then of course there’s all the bonuses that make you deal more damage siege, attack faster with siege, take less damage against siege, carry more supply, etc, all of which giving an advantage to those who have worked for it.

Compared to the the ALREADY EXISTENT, LARGELY ACCEPTED stat increases available in WvW, how significant or insignificant is the stat increase from ascended items?

Yea… sorry bud zerker builds handle dredge fractal just fine.

Let’s make a list. I’ll start.

…
…
…

Okay maybe you start…

It may not help with ascended trinkets, but for your issue with Anomaly:

1. Transmute Anomaly with a plain white focus. This removes the soulbind and makes the item account bound.

2. Transfer the now account bound, white stat Anomaly to the character of your choice.

3. Transmute the Anomaly with an item that has the correct stats.

4. ???

5. Profit.

There’s so much wrong with this post it’s laughable.

1. The zerg doesn’t own the map. Anyone is allowed to kill/fight whatever they want, whenever they want. That said, the game is designed to encourage people to work together.

2. Killing a champion is never against the rules, and people can report you until they’re blue in the face, and nothing will happen. However, harassing people is against the rules, and reporting them can have an effect.

3. You know what those players are trying to accomplish by farming champions in Queensdale. You also know what you’re trying to accomplish by soloing champions. If your goal is to practice your soloing ability, why not do so in some place less populated? Here is a list of champions you could have gone to instead: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_champions

4. How do you know people who both left the game game because they thought there was nothing better to do than Queensdale? Either A) you didn’t know them and just assume they quit, or did know them but never suggested that they do anything else.

5. Lol at limiting a drop of 3s and white/blue/green with a small possibility of a rare or exotic to once a month.

Let’s all pretend that that rising silk prices hurts everyone and helps no one.

glaphen.5230:

Subdue.5479:

I think what a lot of people saying warrior’s aren’t too strong keep conveniently ignoring is that warriors can take a lot of punishment. Thieves, mesmers, if/when they make mistakes and engage when they should disengage, will likely die. In contrast, when these warriors engage when they should disengage, there is very little penalty. That shouldn’t be the case.

What are you even talking about. Warriors have to leave earlier since they don’t have instant teleports and stealth.

That’s simply not true. There are very few classes/builds that can burst these runners down. They can stay in the fight, or continue doing what they’re doing until they’re at 30% HP and then zip away, regardless of what you try to do. In contrast, mesmers and thieves are constantly at risk. Getting caught even at full HP can spell death.

I think what a lot of people saying warrior’s aren’t too strong keep conveniently ignoring is that warriors can take a lot of punishment. Thieves, mesmers, if/when they make mistakes and engage when they should disengage, will likely die. In contrast, when these warriors engage when they should disengage, there is very little penalty. That shouldn’t be the case.

@ Have No Faith In Me:

I’m just going to quote Rock Lee for you here:

“Even if you can see my movement with your sharingan, your body does not have the speed to keep up with mine.”

I’d like more feedback on this please. Is there a reason not to implement something like this?

Johje Holan.4607:

When I first read this I thought that Anet would never do it because they have repeatedly said that they would not do anything that punishes people for playing at an “off” time. But this being a “bonus” and being for immediate points and not at a tick may give them an out which would allow them to consider it.

It does not punish anyone because if I understand correctly PPT will stay the same and everyone will contribute to that equally. But this is in addition to PPT. So that the bonus would alleviate the effect of coverage disparities.

I’m not sure it would do anything about zerging because people zerg for many reasons. But I do think it would help with score disparity due to coverage imbalance.

Combine this with the idea of more points for attacking the leading server and I think this would improve WvW greatly.

Trick is getting Anet to recognize it.

Yes, that’s exactly what I was thinking.

I really think this idea has merit, and it would be great if I could get some more feedback on it.

This really seems like a situation where you’re just upset that you were outplayed. Several people have already commented on various tactics that you could employ to keep the enemy from resurrecting their keep lord, but I’d like to congratulate the enemy. It takes quite a bit of coordination to stagger resurrections so that everyone doesn’t blow their cooldowns on the first 2-3.

Also, as far as the balance issue goes, it’s my personal belief that defending should always be easier than attacking, and that successfully securing a defended keep should require some combination of superior tactics, superior numbers, and superior play. Otherwise the game devolves into nonstop karma trains.

I’m really surprised that no one else has commented. Have I stumbled upon something that has already been covered extensively in another thread?

I’d be very hesitant to get rid of the ticks altogether. WvW is supposed to be about war, and war is about claiming and controlling territory. If you remove the incentive to control territory, you just end up with WvW being played like it’s Frostgorge.

I just found it amusing that two months ago they were offering to pay opposing servers, in this case Yak’s Bend even, to double team them. My how much has changed.

http://www.stormbluffisle.com/index.php/forum/wvw/2658-wvw-event-waypoint-armageddon?limitstart=0

Just thought you guys would get a good laugh.

The number of people playing on a server, regardless of what they’re doing, be it PVE, PVP, WVW, or even just sitting in Lion’s Arch roleplaying, is a factor when it comes to lag issues and load times. Ideally the population load will be spread evenly among all the servers, hence why it’s cheaper to move to lower population servers.

You mention you “love” Underworld, but don’t really explain why. Regardless, if the issue is that gamebreaking for you, why don’t you move to a server that is more in line with your WvW interests and guest onto Underworld for everything else?

Also, I wouldn’t want to remove the tick. The tick is a huge incentive to focus on holding and defense, which should be a significant part of the game.

@Leeco

I like the idea but I’d be hesitant to reward people for actions that can be faked. For example, if a server just sends a couple of people to give the gates of Bay a love tap every few minutes, there’s little risk involved, but would still trigger points. I think that would be a problem.

Awe.1096:

Subdue.5479:

The thing is, the daily system was never designed for people to be striving to complete every single possible daily every single day. That you completionists have decided they want to do that is entirely you.

Are you a game designer from Arena? If no, how can you know with what purpose AP system in GW2 was designed? All we can do is judge how it works based on the implemented version. And AP system in September 2012 was much different from the one we have today. So what it is the design goal? I will take an answer from someone with the Arena tag next to his name. Not from someone who just claims facts basing on own prejudices.

Uh, a daily reward for basically just showing up is not unique to GW2 bud. Every single MMO, especially those which are F2P, has some sort of mechanic that is meant to reward people for playing the game on a daily basis. It’s to keep people there every day, as motivation for them not to take long breaks. This is nothing new.

Awe.1096:

That is true. But by extension we can tell the same about pretty much any grievances people have towards this game.

Only zerker gear valid?
Its not a problem with a game. Its your personal problem that you dont like it.
Ascended grind bad?
Its not a problem with a game. Its your personal problem that you dont like it.
Hammer warrior OP?
Its not a problem with a game. Its your personal problem that you dont like it.
WvW is just zerg?
Its not a problem with a game. Its your personal problem that you dont like it.

And so on. The purpose of the forum is to provide feedback. There will always be people who like X and people who dislike X.

Yes, clearly commentary on balance issues is synonymous with complaints about additional rewards being available for people who choose to seek them.

/sarcasm

Sorry, I’ll take your arguments more clearly when you can come up with a reason other than “I don’t want people who are willing to do the additional achievements to be able to move ahead of those who aren’t.” Because right now, that’s all it is. It’s not that you believe all completionists don’t want the option to be there. If that were the case, then the leaderboard would not change one bit. It’s that you don’t want the option to be there because some completionists might take up the challenge and do it, thus moving them up the boards.

Rigel.5789:

The daily system can still be in place without flooding the game with AP. Most regular achievements give way less points than dailies in terms of time spent. Most other MMOs have an actual achievement system with permanent achievements awarding the points so you can actually compare the score. This is what triggers completionists, if ArenaNet doesn’t want to compell completionists to play the game that is their loss. They didn’t have to make all the other fluff to give everyone else a reason to care about the points, they could’ve made the system more compelling from scratch so it would truly mean something.

Woah woah woah. You need to make a distinction here. Are completionists doing what they do because they like completing content, or are they doing it for a spot on the leaderboard? If it’s because they like completing content, then dailies have nothing to do with it, since dailies can never and will never be complete. If on the other hand, completionists are doing it to be on the leaderboard, then having MORE to do not LESS is a good thing, because it leaves more room for differentiation.

And again, you’re not even arguing that completionists don’t want to do the content. If that were the case, it would be a non-issue. If no one wanted to do the content, then nothing at all would change on the leaderboard. You’re arguing that you don’t want the completionists who are willing to do the content to be able to do it, because they might be able to move ahead of those who aren’t.

Why is it right that it’s there when it makes the game even worse for another group of players? You do realize your argument works both ways. You telling me that my opinion is wrong is what’s wrong on so many levels. I respect it if others have a different opinion, but this is the tip of the iceberg that will make a lot of completionists leave the game whether you like it or not. How you want to weight that against some PvP players getting a few APs is up to you. I know for sure if I was purely a PvP player I wouldn’t care one bit about AP.

They want to make everyone be able to play the game the way they want to you say, but you forget that there are completionists in this game that also quite enjoy collecting achievements but we can’t play the game we want to because of all the dailies that are in our way.

There’s something inherently different between wanting something and not wanting others to have something. And I’m sorry, AP results in free skins, gold, gems, PVP Gear, and so on. So yes, a PvP player would care about AP.

If they removed dailies altogether and balanced permanent achievements between PvE and PvP it wouldn’t even be needed to sit here and say “PvP population needs more achievement points”.

Uh, MMOs and generally most games without a subscription have a daily reward in place that keeps players hopping on at least once a day. This keeps the game active. Getting rid of the dailies would be detrimental to the game.

The thing is, the daily system was never designed for people to be striving to complete every single possible daily every single day. That you completionists have decided they want to do that is entirely you.

The purpose of dailies is to reward people for hopping on every day and playing the game in whatever way they want to play. That’s why you can often get the minimum 5 dailies for the reward while doing other things. It is in that line of thought that new PvP dailies were added, as a boon to players who only enjoy PvP, so that they’re not always getting the shaft when it comes to AP.

You’re free to enjoy the game in whatever way you like. You want to grab every single daily every single day, great! But for you to sit there and point to a daily that’s intended to make things better for a historically marginalized group of players because it doesn’t fit with your own notion of how you want to play the game, well, that’s just wrong on so many levels.

If A.Net were to add even more dailies, or heck, just make all of the possible dailies available every day, most players would benefit, not just because there would be more potential AP going around, but because they’d be more free to play the game however they want, which is what A.Net is going for.

If for some reason you can’t cope with not grabbing every single daily every single day, and the new PvP dailies are as traumatic to your enjoyment of the game as you claim, that’s a personal problem, not a problem with the game.

@Rigel:

Have you ever missed a daily? I’d be very surprised if your answer is no, you’ve gotten every single daily every single day since launch. There’s nothing wrong with that, just like there’s nothing wrong with you opting not to do the pvp dailies. You and these other completionists aren’t really complaining that there’s more to do. You’re complaining that you don’t want to do it AND – this is the key – you don’t want other people to be able to do it either. Why shouldn’t someone who is willing to spend an extra 4 hours a day for a few extra AP be able to do so?

Like I said before, what you completionists need isn’t less stuff to do, it’s more. There should be so much stuff to do that it is impossible to do all of it every single day. That way it becomes less about filling a quota and more about strategically approaching dailies as efficiently as possible.

Also, you talk about player skill in a previous post. Even though there is some luck involved in the pvp dailies, skill plays a far bigger role in those than it does in the gather 20 items daily, or the use mystic forge 5 times daily. I don’t see anyone complaining about those though.

I really would like some feedback on this. Do you think it could work? Why or why not?
Do my conclusions about what the effect would be make sense? What have I missed?

I haven’t really fleshed this out yet, so for now I just want to get the idea out there, and hopefully get some input from you all as to what some potential effects would be. My goal is to address a number of major concerns that come up fairly often:

1. Overwhelmingly large blobs of combatants is too dominant and effective a strategy.
2. Time zone differences create imbalances in matchups.
3. Some servers just have an overwhelming numbers advantage over their opponents.

My suggestion:

Taking objectives should reward immediate bonus points on a sliding scale. The bonus points would be based on the ratio of combatants for the attacking and defending forces currently on any of the four maps. When a server successfully secures an objective while massively outnumbered, the bonus value could be equal to 200% of the usual PPT. Likewise, when a server secures an objective while massively outnumbering the enemy, the bonus could be close to 0.

I believe this would have the following effects:

1. Attacking many objectives at once, and consequently, defending many objectives at once, becomes more rewarding, since some points are awarded immediately, and won’t just be cancelled by the enemy blob before the timer ticks down.

2. While securing objectives during the enemy’s off hours will remain a viable strategy due to the PPT, its effects won’t be as overwhelming since the bonus will be far lower.

3. When a server is simply outmanned all the time, they’ll still be able to put pressure on their opponents to defend objectives, since objectives they claim will be worth more than objectives their opponents claim.

Like I said, I doubt I’ve thought of every possible effect of something like this, but I’d really appreciate everyone’s input.

Awe.1096:

Subdue.5479:

The best thing ANet could do to make the leaderboard actually worth working towards is to make it so that there are so many options available for daily completions that no one could possibly do every single option every single day. Then the leaderboard would be about who worked through it faster, more efficiently, and more devotedly.

Then some poor soul would try to game it and play 18 hours per day doing dailies. He would be at the top. And perhaps dead few years later (remember the headlines about gamers playing for 40 hours and ending up dead). WoW tried to focus on doing hours of dailies at the start of current expansion. They later admitted it was a design mistake since it burned several people out. I am sure there is someone out there willing to grind dailies in GW2 for 10h each day. But that is not me and if GW2 is heading into this direction it is no longer my “one and only beloved game”. Simple as that.

And quite frankly, that’s your call. You are in no way forced to do all the dailies. At most you could make an argument that because of the value of laurels and their time gated nature, you’re “forced”, and even then I use that term loosely, to do 5 of them. Those 5 take most likely 30 minutes max.

The nature of competition is that the best, most motivated, most devoted should be recognized as such. You don’t see athletes complaining that their fellow competitors are training too hard or too much. This isn’t any different.

I only made it through the first page of this thread and already I’m disgusted by the attitudes of the so-called “completionists.” What is the point of a leaderboard if progression is limited not by what the competitors are willing and able to do, but by what is available for them to do?

If anything, you “completionists” should be clamoring for more dailies, not less. You should be arguing for achievements to be harder, not easier. You should want the leaderboard to actually be a competition, where someone who is more hardcore, more willing to put forth the effort and devote the time, can move ahead of someone who simply is not.

I doubt the new achievements were added with you “completionists” in mind, but it’s exactly the sort of thing you needed. The best thing ANet could do to make the leaderboard actually worth working towards is to make it so that there are so many options available for daily completions that no one could possibly do every single option every single day. Then the leaderboard would be about who worked through it faster, more efficiently, and more devotedly.

Uh, there was a warning right on the items in the store that they were there for a limited time. It appeared at least a week before they removed the items, if not longer.

Matchmaking systems are basically sorting algorithms. The one in GW2 may or may not be perfect. It’s too new to tell, and we don’t have the precise details, but the argument of “It ranks your random team, blah blah” doesn’t hold water, because that’s the issue that the system is focused on from the start.

Consider the following analogy:

Say you have have a bunch of rocks of various weights and a balance. You want to ascertain the weight of Rock A relative to the rest of the rocks, but you are only allowed to compare 4 rocks at a time, 2 on each side of the balance. If you compare Rock A+ Rock (Random 1) to Rock (Random 2) + Rock (Random 3) you may find that Rock A + Rock (Random 1) is heavier, or you may not. Either way, that one comparison doesn’t tell you much, because Rock (Random 1) may be very heavy, or it may be very light. However, if you do 50 comparisons and you realize that 80% of the time, Rock A + Rock (Random 1) is heavier than Rock (Random 2) + Rock (Random 3), you can conclude that Rock A is heavier than most of the other rocks.

In the same way, while any one individual match concerning you and 4 random players vs 5 random players is not very telling of how well (or how poorly) you played, the cumulative results of many matches certainly is.

@Dinks and Kaiser:

You guys are both alluding to the same basic issue – a discrepancy between total server population and WvW population. However, I believe that sort of thing can and will eventually will be sorted out by the players themselves if the right incentives are put in place. Eventually leaders on high population, low WvW turnout servers will rise up, or perhaps even hop in, to rally the server’s forces. As long as the overall population is there, the potential to be competitive is there.

Many of the balance issues in WvW are directly caused by a disparity in server populations. To remedy the issues caused by these disparities, A.Net should do the follow:

1. Determine divisions based on server population rather than previous performance.

2. Completely separate ranking for divisions. Being the winner in the division with the highest server populations should be no more prestigious than being the winner in the division with the lowest server populations.

3. Set a population quota based on the population of the most populated server in a division at the time of season announcement. Once those quotas are met (immediately for the most populated server), new server transfers will be ineligible for that season’s reward. People can flock to the strongest server in a given division if they like, during the season, but doing so will prevent them from claiming that season’s reward. They will then be eligible for the next season’s rewards, though enough server jumpers may push that server into the next division.

4. In relation to point 3, once the divisions have been announced, make information regarding the current population status of a server readily available to anyone considering a server change.

These simple changes will solve the following issues:

1. Coverage disparities: If servers have similar population sizes, they should be able to field similar numbers of players. One server won’t be able to steamroll the other two just because they can field as many people on all four maps as the other two servers can field on one.

2. Time disparities: If servers have similar population sizes, then regardless of which times they play, they should be fielding similar sized armies for similar proportions of the day. If their timing is similar, then they’ll be fielding those armies at the same time, contesting the map at the same time. If not, they should have control of the map during their play times, balancing each other out.

3. Jumping ship to the largest server in a division: With server rewards locked once divisions are announced and server populations are equalized, and no guarantee that a server will remain in the division for the following season, there is no longer incentive to server hop to the leading servers within a division.

4. Intentionally losing to become the big fish in a smaller pond: If server population rather than previous performance determine division, this is no longer an issue what so ever.

By implementing these changes A.Net can go a long way in improving the WvW experience.

Civilis.2547:

Subdue.5479:

Actually the system that they have in place right now should eventually even things out. What they really need is a change in the nomenclature. Think about boxing. There’s a heavyweight division a lightweight division, welterweight, etc. The heavyweight champion isn’t “better” than the welterweight champion. In the same way, being the top dog in the T1 division shouldn’t be any more prestigious than being the top dog in the T4 division. Considering how the reward system is set up, a lot of the work for this has already been done, since the rewards for placing 1st, 2nd, 3rd in any division are already the same.

By normalizing the prestige between divisions, separating them completely, displaying them as their own entity rather than a long list with the T1 champ at the top, ANet can balance out server populations. Guilds in the bottom end of a T1 server would opt to move to a T3 server to push that server into the top spot of T3. This would also have the effect of dropping their previous server into T2 where it is most closely aligned with the server populations of competition. Eventually, the net result will be that servers will typically have closer populations.

The issue with this is that it commits one of the cardinal sins of games: potentially rewarding the players for intentionally choosing to play poorly. On Kaineng, we took some grief and some serious morale hits as we fell in rank before the season began, which only made the situation worse for those who stayed and more tempting to those who left. We had internal and external grief for those who thought we were intentionally losing to get into Bronze, as well as a few who seriously proposed throwing the matches to make sure we ended up in Bronze.

In league matches, we have had commanders deliberately sabotage defense efforts up to and including destroying golems to lose keeps so we can then score WXP for retaking it. This has also worked to kill morale.

Nothing hurts a game more than rewarding people for intentionally playing bad.

The problem you propose as it relates to my suggestion is easily resolved by basing leagues on server population rather than performance in a previous season. While various servers with similar populations may have varying degrees of WvW population, WvW players will quickly figure out which servers are serious about WvW and which aren’t, and flock to those that are.

Actually the system that they have in place right now should eventually even things out. What they really need is a change in the nomenclature. Think about boxing. There’s a heavyweight division a lightweight division, welterweight, etc. The heavyweight champion isn’t “better” than the welterweight champion. In the same way, being the top dog in the T1 division shouldn’t be any more prestigious than being the top dog in the T4 division. Considering how the reward system is set up, a lot of the work for this has already been done, since the rewards for placing 1st, 2nd, 3rd in any division are already the same.

By normalizing the prestige between divisions, separating them completely, displaying them as their own entity rather than a long list with the T1 champ at the top, ANet can balance out server populations. Guilds in the bottom end of a T1 server would opt to move to a T3 server to push that server into the top spot of T3. This would also have the effect of dropping their previous server into T2 where it is most closely aligned with the server populations of competition. Eventually, the net result will be that servers will typically have closer populations.

Yea, I think you may want to ask around your community to see what they think of defense. On Yaks Bend it’s a pretty big deal. Just the other day FoW, one of the larger guilds on Yaks Bend, was giving tutorials on how to defend a tower from a much larger force with effective use of siege.

I don’t get it. Why in the world would you want balance to take -longer- to achieve? There are a limited number of classes with a limited number of abilities available to each. Eventually pvp will reach a point where each class is about equally balanced. Personally, I see every class represented right now, though some more than others, and I think that’s a good sign. It means game balance is moving in the right direction. Why would you want to slow that down?

Laserbolt.6731:

So here I am at 29%. Is it worth playing SoloQ any longer with this character?

Frankly, I am becoming suspicious of Glicko2 MMR accuracy as applied to team sports, especially with a very small pool of players.

If the MMR is adjusted based on your team’s performance…and you are only 1/5 of the team. How can your MMR really be your skill level?

People in posts above say you need to play a non-team-support character in SoloQ. That would seem to contradict the whole point of your rating being the rating of the team you are assigned to. You should support that team, since IT is your rating.

If you’ve got 4 pebbles and a big rock on one side of a balance and 5 pebbles on the other side, which side will be heavier?

This is basically the gist of how these rating systems work. The more you win, the heavier the rocks you’re weighed with, both on your own team and on the opponent’s. Eventually you’ll be getting weighed with and against similarly weighted rocks and your probability of winning will be about 50%.

If you’re getting a consistent 50% win ratio while playing with the pebbles, perhaps you’re not as big as you think you are.

This thread is so illogical. If moving up or not is just luck, why would you expect anything different once you get there?

Mordalus.8146:

Shockwave.1230:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Part of being a casual player, as I am, is you have to realize that you won’t have the same opportunities for items or to earn as much gold as those that play more. That just goes with the territory of casual play in an MMO. The other option is to buy gems and convert to gold. That’s just the way it works.

The thing for me is that I’d like to play more, but it’s not worth my time unless it’s for a new content release.

It’s not worth my time, because other people are driving the prices so high I can’t possibly invest the time to go after the armor skins, weapon skins (not legendaries that is understandable), or dyes that I’d like.

It’s also hard to experiment with different builds, because of how expensive it is to change them.

This is exactly why GW2 is no longer my go-to MMO. I just can’t save gold faster than the rate of inflation which means I will never be able to acquire any shinies. WoW is once again my go-to game since I will be able to get the things I want eventually, even at a casual pace. I wish it was otherwise because I love the GW2 combat and art style. But it’s so frustrating not being able to save gold faster than the rate of inflation. GW2 is now my game to go to when I get an itch to do the Living Story updates.

It costs $15 a month to play WoW, which is the equivalent of about 1200 gems. And if your plan is to use that for gold, leaving it in gem form until you’re ready to spend the gold keeps it pretty much immune to inflation.