Guild Wars 2

This is such a selfish view to take. You lucked out and ended up on a high population server. I guarantee the vast majority of players on Desolation didn’t plan it that way, it just happened. If you think waiting is so tough, why don’t YOU guest to a low pop server? Oh wait, because low pop servers are already disadvantaged.

Holy crap dude if you don’t like it don’t do it.

Ethics.4519:

Yeah, also, lets do all the paths in order. You can’t just drop straight into arah p4.

You HAVE to start with AC story, then do path 1, then path 2, then path 3.

The dungoen team obviously wanted a sequential order, which is why they ordered them 1, 2, 3 etc.

This is what anet intended, no reason to doubt it.

They’re not even numbered… In fact, most of them are choices, “Do you want to go with plan A, B, or C?”

Andy.9137:

laharl.8435:

Orpheal.8263:

laharl.8435:

Orpheal.8263:

ANet has finally to completely redesign the whole DUngeons so that this ridiculous selling of dungeon poaths simply finally finds an END.

Thats my opinions.

It isn’t done that they just remove one path of Twilight Arbor and exchange it with a new path.

They have to do this with ALL Paths, until all paths are so designed, that you can’t solo them.

And then Anet should implement as new Feature finally also “SOLO DUNGEONS”.

I really hope, that we will see over the coming year of 2014 more changes to the existing dungeons, especially Arah and Ascalon, the current 2 strongholds of Dungeon Path Selling that need to get removed.

If one is not using exploits, why do you care that one person can solo a dungeon?

Because Dungeons, at least the current ones were NEVER to be designed for being 1 person shows for making in very quick time ridiculous amounts of profits .

Dungeons are GROUP CONTENT and the current ones should also be played like that – as Group Content.
If people just would do them for the challenge solo, that would be just fine, but those Dungeon Sellers are like a plaque, they ruin this game, they turn the intention of playing the dungeons as a group into a ridiculous question of:

“How can I make as fast as possible insane amounts of profit from dumb people that are willing to pay me to get as fast as possible my tokens?”

People should you know – EARN their tokens as a group and not get their tokens instantly handed for absolutely no personal effort by an other player that has soloed for their lazy butts the whole dungeon.

The game definetely will profitate only from it, if Anet redesignes finally the Arah Paths and Ascalon Paths.
Especially the Arah Paths.

PS: and if this plague of people will stay in this game, then I hope at least, that once the LFG-Tools reachs finally its ripe phase of getting fully implemented, getting out of its Beta, with more improved features ect., then i eant to see a “Sell Path Filter” at least, so that I can at lease erase all this scum out of my sight …seriously

Say to me, that my view of this is very radical, I don’t care, I stand over that, its simply my true opinion. Such peopel imo don’t belong into MMO’s, they should better play Real Life Simutations or stuff like the good old Monopoly, where its the goal of the game to just profitate from others to get as rich as possible ….

A plague? It’s a simple service. It affects no one beside the buyers and sellers.

You say you don’t like the profit aspect. Do you also carry such disdain for anyone who purchases item from the tp with the intention of profiting from it? At least this actually affects you as opposed to path selling.

You also don’t like that the dungeons were “designed” for 5 man teams yet one person can solo without exploiting. Does it anger you in other mmo’s when a 12 man team completes a raid designed for 40?

you can just translate his post to “I’m jealous people can do dungeons better than I can and make money out of it”

Yes this about sums it up.

Invisible Bag. Safe Box.

The recipes were tradeable since they were released, though there was a bug that prevented them from showing on the TP. That bug was fixed at most a few days after they were released though.

I’d like to get some more feedback on these, as well as other suggestions you might have.

I wish I knew what Kaboose is, but yes, in its current incarnation, Boss’ CC imunity pretty much invalidates the “control” aspect of A.Net’s vision for GW2’s combat system.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Subdue.5479:

Engineer, 1 minute.

Birthday Bonus + 60 Tomes of Knowledge.

Time entry invalid, please factor in the time it took to accumulate said 60 tomes of knowledge.

:(

Wouldn’t that make the crafting guy’s time invalid as well?

theguildless.1386:

I do think these are avenues that should be explored (no. 2 not so much in my opinion, as no. 1 should make a better job of it). Active combat is indeed the way it should be and, as you point out, there are already many mechanics already implemented that can help (retaliation, weakness, vulnerability, etc.)

However, I would be careful with statements like no. 7. I do understand that many players are not happy about the current all-out DPS meta, but this would be a step towards stat based combat, which you are trying to avoid. Moreso, if a Berserker Warrior (2127 armor, 18.3k hp)* dies in one hit, what about an Elementalist who chooses to go for Celestial gear (2203 armor, 14.5k hp) or a Thief who goes for Soldier’s Armor and Valkyrie Trinkets (2204 armor, 17.2k hp)? Other classes who would go for defensive stats would most likely get one-hitted too, and they’d just go back to full damage specs.

*Armor + Trinkets/Jewels stat, no runes, no traits.

Hm. Perhaps you’re right and that’s a bit extreme. Perhaps a full glass cannon elementalist would get 1 shotted? Honestly that’s something that would require fine tuning, more so than I can speculate here. However, somehow there should be a correlation between increased dps and increased risk. I suppose that’s how I should have worded it.

I’ll edit my post to say that.

1. Reduce the cooldown of boss abilities.

2. Reduce the casting time of boss abilities.

3. Reduce the base values of healing abilities and increase the healing power ratios.

4. Remove Defiant.

5. Utilize creative mechanics to incentivize build variety (ex: fast-healing bosses, fast moving/attacking bosses (similar to Mossman), Very high toughness, low HP bosses with retaliation, encounters where player HP ticks down at a flat rate per seconds, etc)

6. Reduce the base endurance regeneration rate and the effectiveness of Energy sigils.

7. Balance instant down mechanics to create a meaningful correlation between risk and dps.

8. Remove the condition cap on enemies, but give bosses various condition cleanse abilities.

In an ideal world, the best way to improve active combat in GW2 would be through far improved, reactive, unpredictable AI. Unfortunately, that likely won’t happen, or at least, would take a long long time to do. However, the set of changes I’ve suggested would encourage more varied gameplay, build variety, and unique strategies for various situations, all while preserving the goal of active combat rather than stat based combat, and involve mostly tweaks to the numbers rather than drastic reprogramming.

Engineer, 1 minute.

Birthday Bonus + 60 Tomes of Knowledge.

Danikat.8537:

Subdue.5479:

If you’re not equal to his guild rank, you can’t do anything. And really, you shouldn’t be able to do anything. Imagine the chaos if people below you could edit your rank. lol

I think it’s a good idea to have at least one other person who can do everything just in case something happens to the leader. For example if they’re ill or lose their internet connection or power unexpectedly or have a major crisis in real life which means they can’t come online for a while. Even if they’re contactable chances are the guild is the last thing they’re going to want to worry about, so it’s a good idea to have someone who can step in and manage things for a while.

Of course it should be someone the guild leader trusts (and ideally someone who isn’t in the same house and not a family member etc. otherwise they’re likely to be in the same situation).

…That’s what officers are for…

In any case, what you’re describing is already possible isn’t quite the same as what the OP wants. In your scenario, another person has been chosen by the guild leader to take over in his absence. In the OP’s situation, he’s supposedly the guild’s #2 in command, but wants to oust the the guild leader. For what reason, well, I can’t think of any reason that’s non-malicious/greed based for him to want to remove the guild leader.

If you’re not equal to his guild rank, you can’t do anything. And really, you shouldn’t be able to do anything. Imagine the chaos if people below you could edit your rank. lol

Chris RJ.1843:

Subdue.5479:

Eh the thing is, at least right now, Zerker gear is pretty easy to play, even in most dungeons, even in higher level Fractals. That’s really the problem. It should be more difficult than it is right now.

Well I think you’re right in a way. It appears easier. The difficulty of playin zerk gear is the same as it always has been though.

The change is that the game has been out longer. The longer the game is out, the more experienced players become. It might take someone 2 weeks to learn mechanics and graduate to DPS gear or it might take someone else 1 year to do the same.

There’s no doubt that DPS gear is ruling the roost in PvE but I don’t think it’s because it is any “easier” than it has ever been. It’s just now revealing the glaring holes in the PvE design. Of course, for open world it doesn’t matter what you wear.

In dungeons though, people have learned just about all the tricks and all the mechanics. So yes, zerk gear is much more forgiving because the learning curve to the content is gone. The answer to this would be a PvE (or dungeon) overhaul to change the way enemies react and vary mechanics. Another answer would be new content that does things in a different way (that starts a new timer until folks learn everything about that).

I know I’m upset about the crit nerf. I think other folks are for the same reason. It wasn’t the only answer. It was the worst answer and it didn’t change anything. It didn’t revitalize the dungeon experience. It just made it slower for (arguably) everyone. I don’t see who benefits (except maybe the TP players).

The mechanics don’t even have to be overhauled. They just need to be sped up. For example, take Subject Alpha. Right now Subject Alpha is as easy to beat as sitting in a corner, counting to 2 when you see circles, and dodging. That’s it. What if the circles were only up for .5s and he used them more frequently than a player could dodge, even with vigor?

If a player is really good, they’d still be able to avoid most of the damage in that scenario, but it would be far more involved than see circle > count to 2 > dodge > repeat.

Eh the thing is, at least right now, Zerker gear is pretty easy to play, even in most dungeons, even in higher level Fractals. That’s really the problem. It should be more difficult than it is right now.

laokoko.7403:

I think the problem is if the game is doable in glass cannon build.

Wearing anything other than glass cannon just mean you are a bad player with no skill.

The game should be doable with a glass cannon build, but it should be difficult. The problem with the way things currently are is that there’s a big increase in killing speed in glass cannon gear, but very little increase in difficulty.

Brutal Arts.6307:

I have some bullet points too.

1) Change the game type from “Action MMO” to WoW clone #786876
2) Give us tanks and healers and taunt so everyone can be as braindead as possible at all times.
3) Give bosses unavoidable damage auras so tanks and healers can feel extra good about themselves
4) Increase backstab damage by 300% (Okay, that one was a bit off theme for reductions…)

See I can do it too, easy.

I don’t get it. What exactly are you trying to say here? You don’t think that building glass cannon should be riskier, or you don’t think that building durability should be meaningful?

If A.net wants to to make defensive stats more appealing, it needs to really start hitting the game up with some serious reductions.

1. Reduce the damage dealt by bosses.
2. Reduce the cooldown of boss abilities.
3. Reduce the casting time of boss abilities.
4. Reduce the base values of healing abilities and increase the healing power ratios. (Okay, that one was a bit off theme for reductions…)

Dodging and active gameplay are core for this game, and that’s great. The problem is that right now, dodging and avoiding damage is easy, too easy, and failing to avoid damage is too costly even when you’ve invested in defensive stats. That’s why full berserker gear is so popular. Ideally, there should be a trade off between potential killing speed and risk. However, the combination of easy to dodge boss attacks and massive damage regardless of durability have created a situation where in the risk of taking damage changes very little as the potential killing speed increases.

In an ideal world, A.Net would be able to program AI advanced enough to provide counter play against dodges, complex and difficult attack patterns that respond to player tactics, and thus make glass cannon builds appropriately risky. However, that is likely something very difficult to do. What I’ve proposed on the other hand is relatively easy, as it involves only tweaking of numbers, yet accomplishes a similar end. Playing a glass cannon build becomes more challenging, as damage becomes more difficult to avoid, while building durability becomes more rewarding as it actually has a meaningful effect in combat.

Godmoney.2048:

oliverstoned.2695:

Godmoney.2048:

Clones don’t overwrite phantasms. Clones will overwrite clones and clones only.

If you have 3 Phantasms out, a Clone will overwrite the oldest Phantasm.

How many times do you actually get 3 phantasms out? I mean really? That is like a cloudless day with a perfect blue sky and a beautiful robin sits down next to you and sings a song.

Also after the nerf now they won’t will they! After the nerf you can have all 3 phantasms out without canceling any because clones won’t spawn. I guess this is a buff for phant builds.

Can’t tell if serious…

Phantasm A > Signet of Ethers > Phantasm A > Weapon Swap > Phantasm B

There, 3 Phantasms out in about 4 seconds.

imsoenthused.1634:

Subdue.5479:

This sounds to me like you’re admitting it’s a personal issue, not a flaw in game design. That’s something we can agree on.

Nope, it’s a personal preference, not an issue. I have an issue with stupid grinds, that causes me to prefer games that don’t have them. My issue doesn’t make the stupid grind less stupid. You keep acting like the people who don’t want vertical progression like ascended in the game are wrong. We’re not. Nor does the fact that you think it’s not needed and can be ignored mean that it’s that way for everyone. I chose this game because it didn’t have this atrocious game flaw, and based on it’s predecessor I didn’t think it ever would. Then they changed it, proving my expectations wrong, and in my opinion ruining the game, just so it could be the same as bunch of other horrible MMOs and keep people who like horrible games happy.

So people who value elements of a game differently from you are inherently wrong, and A.Net should not be trying to please as many players as possible. Got it.

imsoenthused.1634:

Right on cue. Now, psychologically, I can’t “not work towards the items.” It’s just not something I can do. I don’t like doing it, but I can’t make myself stop. So why do you keep telling that I don’t have to do something I have to do? Is it just because you don’t have to do it? Now, I recognize this in myself, and avoid games that hit that hot button. It works pretty well. Unless I start playing a game with no obsession causing vertical progression grind, and then the developers go and add such a grind for no good reason. Then it becomes kind of hard to avoid. But, once again, keep telling me that exotics work fine and I don’t have to work on ascended in spite of what my brain keeps telling me. Your ideas intrigue me, and I’d like to subscribe to your newsletter.

This sounds to me like you’re admitting it’s a personal issue, not a flaw in game design. That’s something we can agree on.

It’s all appearance, though you do get some AP for equipping cultural armors.

imsoenthused.1634:

Vayne.8563:

But what are the alternatives? No stat increase and an entire segment is disenfranchised. Big stat increase and another entire segment is disenfranchised.

That’s why they compromised and I don’t believe that the biggest percentage of people are disappointed with it. I’d have been far more disappointed if the stat difference was huge. As it is, I’m quite happy, because I know I don’t need that armor.

It’s all a question of percentages. There’s got to be some threshold. Anet certainly annoyed a percentage of each camp, but what size percent and how annoyed they are will tell the real story. If they chose right, most people will stay and play. If they chose wrong…well that would be unfortunate.

So for you, you don’t feel disenfranchised because the stat change was small. I and many other players, on the other hand, feel completely disenfranchised by the fact that they put ANY stat increase on it. So we’re going to keep complaining, to try and keep the game from making a further slide in that direction. You can feel free to keep popping up in our threads and chanting “you don’t need ascended gear”, okay?

The difference between the disenfranchisement that players who want some kind of vertical progression would have in comparison to the sort that you claim to experience is that there is no choice left for those who want the vertical progression. If there’s none in the game, all they can do is leave. And whether you like it or not, those people leaving hurts not only A.Net’s pockets, but your gaming experience as well. In contrast, those in your camp do have an option. You can simple not work towards the items. That’s right, don’t work towards them, don’t think about them, and continue playing the game exactly how you were playing it 6 months ago. If you don’t make it an issue, it won’t be one.

WRay.2391:

Subdue.5479:

WRay.2391:

Subdue.5479:

Kevan.8912:

Subdue.5479:

The problem is that there exists this middle group that wants to feel hardcore, sitting around in BiS gear, but doesn’t actually want to be hardcore. These players play like casuals, a dungeon here, a dungeon there, some mapping, not really doing anything focused or hardcore with their time, but they want to be dressed in the best gear. Mind you, the gear they’re currently in most likely far more than enough for any content they’ve done or ever think of doing. That’s not the point for them though. The point for them is that they no longer feel hardcore, even though they never really were hardcore.

the problem is that there exist some people that forget that if they want to feel hardcore, there is WoW.
and there yeah, that’s kitten. grind your soul out and get that BiS gear to feel your glory….for a pair of weeks before the next tier is rolled out.
it’s you that want to have an easy BiS…if compared to other games…but slighty too difficult/time wasting for the other standard players, to show your possible kittenitude….in a battle of the have-nots.

and there exist(ed) also a gw2 game that forgot who bought it and why.
why sold out so many copies.
the only things that divide it from a big fat fail. the casuals who want to have that best equip.
let it continue down the road of new tiers.
there we’ll never be a real competition with really hardcore-grindy games.
a foot in both camps…won’t last long.

have fun…until there is fun.

It’s pretty clear that you did not even understand the post that you quoted, and your comments are entirely based on assumptions, many of which are contradicted by simple observation.

I think it’s you who don’t understand how GW2 was sold.
If you want to consider yourself hardcore and show off then there is a tons of skins/legendaries for it. Want hardcore grind – go for it. It’s called horizontal progression.

If you want to have stat advantage because you grinded more than WoW is for you. GW2 was not created for this but now ANET is trying to play for both teams. Results are bad IMO.

And please, tell me what is this magical “hardcore”. Are you hardcore enough ? Maybe you also a middle class player that pretends to be hardcore ? Who knows, everything needs comparison.

Actually, it’s likely you that doesn’t understand how GW2 was sold. It was marketed with a focus on quick, smooth combat and dynamic events. The concept of horizontal progression, was rarely even in the picture unless someone else brought it up. It was rarely if ever the focus of any marketing.

That said, GW2 drew from GW1 playerbase, sure, but it also drew from the overall MMO playerbase as well, many of whom came with certain expectations, that differed from the expectations of the GW1 players. Please note, I use the term GW1 players loosely, as I’m sure there are some GW1 players that are happy to have some higher tier gear to work towards, and I’m sure there are some non-GW1 players that would prefer a purely horizontal progression.

However, while A.Net may have wanted to develop a purely horizontal game, the fact of the matter is that the majority of the player base, and most likely those player that were more prone to spending on gems, wanted something to work towards.

A.Net’s compromise was… well I explained that part already.

Oh, I almost forgot to address your question. What is hardcore? Hardcore is spending 2-3 doing the various activities associated with achieving long term in game goals – high level fractals, ascended gear, legendaries, etc.

Oh, thank you for your explanation.

What you described as hardcore is a simple grinding. You don’t even need to have mind to do this. Bots are the most hardcore players by your definition.

As per my understanding hardcore is building your skill in certain activity. Solo Arah p4 in white armor and I will call you hardcore. Reach fractals 80+ before nerf and I will call you hardcore. Grind for mats/gold and I will call you bot or casual.

You can call it casual, you can call it being a bot, I really don’t care what you call it. Fact of the matter is, there are players, and deductive reasoning would suggest a majority of players, who like playing that way. The compromise A.Net made was to give that to them without taking away whatever you’d like to name the group of players you belong to wanted: to be able to play the game without a grind. And quite frankly, if you don’t want to grind in this game, you don’t have to. You can do pretty much anything in the game in super easy to acquire exotic gear, or even rare and masterwork gear really.

Ashen.2907:

Subdue.5479:

Hardcore is spending 2-3 doing the various activities associated with achieving long term in game goals – high level fractals, ascended gear, legendaries, etc.

You consider crafting hardcore ?

Hmm, some pretty hardcore grandmothers out there with all that knitting.

If your grandmother can do this, yes I’d agree she’s hardcore.

Vayne.8563:

Kevan.8912:

Subdue.5479:

However, while A.Net may have wanted to develop a purely horizontal game, the fact of the matter is that the majority of the player base, and most likely those player that were more prone to spending on gems, wanted something to work towards.

yeah. you are right.
it’s what they did. they changed everything they talked about at launch to appeal a new population which appeared a better investment.
greed and economy. i’m sure they’re right. gw2 is money not philosophy and coherence.

still, i have my own interests and will never login again.
and i really do hope i wont be the only.

Subdue.5479:

Oh, I almost forgot to address your question. What is hardcore? Hardcore is spending 2-3 doing the various activities associated with achieving long term in game goals – high level fractals, ascended gear, legendaries, etc.

i think you’re looking in the wrong place for “hardcore”, as i don’t see any here.
if it’s no more tha casual game, it will never be the hardcore game.
as they try to make happy so different kinds of players, no chance they could satisfy everybody in the same time.
but, you know. money is good, no matter whence it comes.
good luck

No, they didn’t change everything talked about at launch. That’s not true. They made a compromise, which didn’t change it completely.

They created a single new tier of gear, and that’s it. That’s not changing everything completely. They didn’t make it so anyone actually needs that tier of gear, like other games do.

And the game was advertised on many things, not just this one issue. Maybe they’ve changed a tiny percent of what they said before launch, but there are people who refuse to recognize this.

I’d reply, but this pretty much sums it up.

WRay.2391:

Subdue.5479:

Kevan.8912:

Subdue.5479:

The problem is that there exists this middle group that wants to feel hardcore, sitting around in BiS gear, but doesn’t actually want to be hardcore. These players play like casuals, a dungeon here, a dungeon there, some mapping, not really doing anything focused or hardcore with their time, but they want to be dressed in the best gear. Mind you, the gear they’re currently in most likely far more than enough for any content they’ve done or ever think of doing. That’s not the point for them though. The point for them is that they no longer feel hardcore, even though they never really were hardcore.

the problem is that there exist some people that forget that if they want to feel hardcore, there is WoW.
and there yeah, that’s kitten. grind your soul out and get that BiS gear to feel your glory….for a pair of weeks before the next tier is rolled out.
it’s you that want to have an easy BiS…if compared to other games…but slighty too difficult/time wasting for the other standard players, to show your possible kittenitude….in a battle of the have-nots.

and there exist(ed) also a gw2 game that forgot who bought it and why.
why sold out so many copies.
the only things that divide it from a big fat fail. the casuals who want to have that best equip.
let it continue down the road of new tiers.
there we’ll never be a real competition with really hardcore-grindy games.
a foot in both camps…won’t last long.

have fun…until there is fun.

It’s pretty clear that you did not even understand the post that you quoted, and your comments are entirely based on assumptions, many of which are contradicted by simple observation.

I think it’s you who don’t understand how GW2 was sold.
If you want to consider yourself hardcore and show off then there is a tons of skins/legendaries for it. Want hardcore grind – go for it. It’s called horizontal progression.

If you want to have stat advantage because you grinded more than WoW is for you. GW2 was not created for this but now ANET is trying to play for both teams. Results are bad IMO.

And please, tell me what is this magical “hardcore”. Are you hardcore enough ? Maybe you also a middle class player that pretends to be hardcore ? Who knows, everything needs comparison.

Actually, it’s likely you that doesn’t understand how GW2 was sold. It was marketed with a focus on quick, smooth combat and dynamic events. The concept of horizontal progression, was rarely even in the picture unless someone else brought it up. It was rarely if ever the focus of any marketing.

That said, GW2 drew from GW1 playerbase, sure, but it also drew from the overall MMO playerbase as well, many of whom came with certain expectations, that differed from the expectations of the GW1 players. Please note, I use the term GW1 players loosely, as I’m sure there are some GW1 players that are happy to have some higher tier gear to work towards, and I’m sure there are some non-GW1 players that would prefer a purely horizontal progression.

However, while A.Net may have wanted to develop a purely horizontal game, the fact of the matter is that the majority of the player base, and most likely those player that were more prone to spending on gems, wanted something to work towards.

A.Net’s compromise was… well I explained that part already.

Oh, I almost forgot to address your question. What is hardcore? Hardcore is spending 2-3 doing the various activities associated with achieving long term in game goals – high level fractals, ascended gear, legendaries, etc.

Kevan.8912:

Subdue.5479:

The problem is that there exists this middle group that wants to feel hardcore, sitting around in BiS gear, but doesn’t actually want to be hardcore. These players play like casuals, a dungeon here, a dungeon there, some mapping, not really doing anything focused or hardcore with their time, but they want to be dressed in the best gear. Mind you, the gear they’re currently in most likely far more than enough for any content they’ve done or ever think of doing. That’s not the point for them though. The point for them is that they no longer feel hardcore, even though they never really were hardcore.

the problem is that there exist some people that forget that if they want to feel hardcore, there is WoW.
and there yeah, that’s kitten. grind your soul out and get that BiS gear to feel your glory….for a pair of weeks before the next tier is rolled out.
it’s you that want to have an easy BiS…if compared to other games…but slighty too difficult/time wasting for the other standard players, to show your possible kittenitude….in a battle of the have-nots.

and there exist(ed) also a gw2 game that forgot who bought it and why.
why sold out so many copies.
the only things that divide it from a big fat fail. the casuals who want to have that best equip.
let it continue down the road of new tiers.
there we’ll never be a real competition with really hardcore-grindy games.
a foot in both camps…won’t last long.

have fun…until there is fun.

It’s pretty clear that you did not even understand the post that you quoted, and your comments are entirely based on assumptions, many of which are contradicted by simple observation.

CureForLiving.5360:

fadeaway.2807:

Friend asks “what happened to no grind?”.

Players happened, s whiny lot of players came whining on the forums about how easy it is, about how much they want hardcore content, how ANet needs to give them Raids and what not. So ANet gave them fractals, easy to get into but with scaling difficult thus they made high level fractals hard, so hard that if you really wanted to beat it you had to work for it. And now everyone’s complaining again.

You paint this like it’s a bad thing, and it’s really not. A casual player can play this game for months and never run out of things to do, just wandering about, enjoying the scenery, popping into the occasional dungeon, etc. I’ve got friends who are exactly like that, some of which after months of play have not yet reached 80, or are barely at 80. Then, there are hardcore players who breeze through the content at such breakneck speeds that they’ve already experienced everything the game has to offer within 2 weeks of picking it up.

Faced with the issue of being able to entertain both groups of players, A.Net chose a compromise. They added Fractals, which would still for the most part, be accessible to everyone, even the casuals (in fact you can do lower level fractals long before you reach level 80), but which the higher difficulties of which would require real, long term effort, even for the hardcore group, to prepare for and complete. It truly is an inspired solution to the issue that matches their core values with the realistic necessity of pleasing the hardcore group, which, given the amount of time they likely spend in the game, are likely the ones most willing to spend to support it.

The problem is that there exists this middle group that wants to feel hardcore, sitting around in BiS gear, but doesn’t actually want to be hardcore. These players play like casuals, a dungeon here, a dungeon there, some mapping, not really doing anything focused or hardcore with their time, but they want to be dressed in the best gear. Mind you, the gear they’re currently in most likely far more than enough for any content they’ve done or ever think of doing. That’s not the point for them though. The point for them is that they no longer feel hardcore, even though they never really were hardcore.

fadeaway.2807:

Easily?
The game was intended to be non grindy.
In the scenario above, the players don’t want to grind but want to do the challenging content. Of course they are going to want to bypass the progression which should in their eyes not be there.

Do you remember when and more importantly WHY Fractals was implemented?

fadeaway.2807:

Dead easy way to show that there is a grind in a non grindy game:

My friend starts playing, gets to 80, gears up (a grind in itself but let’s not talk about that part).
Finds he’s quite good at the game. Wants to tackle high level fractals, doesn’t care for the easymode low level ones.
Jumps in high level. Agony kills him.
I tell him to go farm laurels/trinkets/commendations, some hundreds of gold for the backpiece, and maybe some ascended gear if he doesn’t want to be instagibbed by the final boss using agony.
Friend asks “what happened to no grind?”.

How do you in one breath argue about how the game was “intended” to be no grind, and in the next breath argue your friend should be able to bypass the intended progression of Fractals?

fadeaway.2807:

There’s really no need to get personal and start insulting me.
It’s quite obvious that there’s a grind, as per the original post.
You cannot do 49 without at least ascended trinkets and a high cost backpiece, which require a grind.

The block didn’t stop a lot of people.

Actually, the block stopped everyone, except for those who made it through before the block, and those who knew them, since it was impossible to beat level 50. The only way to get above level 50 is to have someone open 51+ or some other odd numbered fractal.

And as for a grind, you would have to complete fractals a minimum of 48 times to even get to 49, during the course of which, if your goal was to do 49, you’d certainly have everything you needed for it by then.

fadeaway.2807:

It was 9 ticks. 48 was doable, at 50+ the only way you could complete fotm (for fotm level kitten) was by hitting the odd numbers and avoiding the end boss an reward chest or attempting some funky mechanics like full heals. Current 49 with no ascended items would require infused backpiece, which many casuals can’t afford. Even with it, it can be dangerous. There is no doubt about it, if a new but fairly skilled player wants to jump into the hard content – they first have to grind for it.

Just going to quote myself since you missed it completely.

“It did not follow the same agony progression that the rest of the levels followed because it was intentionally a block.”

“it was intentionally a block”

“intentionally a block”

“a block”

fadeaway.2807:

Please try doing fotm49 with no ascended items, or fotm49 with only ascended trinkets.

You do realize that people were doing fotm49 LONG before ascended armor/weapons came out, right?

Time consuming =/= hard. Lupicus is relatively hard in the sense that he has a number of interesting mechanics that test a player’s ability to act and react. Yes, I know some people can do Lupicus over and over again like they’re killing stuff in Queensdale, but that is a tiny minority of the overall population. The dredge popping out of the clown in the dredge fractal, that’s time consuming. It is not hard. It is not challenging.

I bring this up because what the OP is asking for isn’t necessary going to make dungeons less “boring.” In fact, really it just adds more boring filler hack-n-slash combat between actually potentially interesting parts.

Zaoda.1653:

After my case and how quickly it was rejected with a copy-paste answer, I’m never sending in a support ticket for something ever again. Players shouldn’t have to hold onto stuff that, on the off chance, may-or-may-not become account bound in the future.

Players like myself, that at the time needed to create a new alt and didn’t have enough gems to buy a new character slot, ended up resorting to deleting the character with the soulbound infinite gathering tools. A few months later Anet announced they’d become account bound for those who already purchased them. Lucky players, not so lucky us. Many sent in tickets hoping that the infinite gathering tools we rightfully purchased with our hard earnt money were quickly rejected with a copy-paste answer basically saying they won’t refund ‘deleted’ items, in turn, telling us it’s OUR fault. Well sorry but I’m not a psychic and I don’t have a crystal ball either. NOT my fault.

Also, I considered putting the soulbound infinite gathering tool into my bank BEFORE deleting the character, but I knew in my heart of hearts that even if I placed it in the bank and they somehow became account bound one day, I figured Anet would make it so that you have to turn those items into an NPC to make them account bound – and you can’t do that IF THE CHARACTER IS DELETED. And sure enough, I was right, it would have made no difference. I would have been at a loss anyway. Can’t win.

Just so I understand this correctly, you had already made the decision that you were okay with losing the item. You then followed through with your decision to destroy the item. Some time later, A.Net decided to do something nice, by making the items account bound instead of soul bound, and you’re complaining that you couldn’t get an item that you had willfully, intentionally destroyed, back.

Also, yes, you can win. You can win by not putting an expensive, long term item on a potentially short term character.

Aeonblade.8709:

Basically it boils down to 2 groups: Either you care about what products you invest your money into and intend to get your monies worth out of them, or you just don’t care about your money or quality service.

Not saying either is right, just 2 different philosophies in here.

I’m pretty sure I fall into group #3: If you screw up and delete an item, that is not A.Net’s fault. If A.Net decides on a policy of not reversing user error, that is not poor quality service. It is fair service. I can care about what products I spend my money on without feeling like I deserve to be treated like a 5 year old and have my hand held every step of the way.

Yea, I don’t buy it. All of you people claiming this tarnishes A.Net’s reputation, or “I won’t buy anything because of this,” etc, are full of crap. If something like this ever did happen to me, I’d send a support ticket in hopes of getting it replaced, but I wouldn’t understand it was my fault, and not blame A.Net, or “be disappointed in A.Net,” or QQ on the forums about poor customer service. This is not poor customer service, it is just the norm.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Subdue.5479:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Xenon.4537:

Ascended gear isn’t dumb, you just don’t yet understand that it’s an optional long-term goal meant for certain players who have the time and resources to pursue it. You are angry because you have been trained to expect something. Well things change. Different games are different. Is it not humanity’s ability to adapt one of its greatest strengths?

The same arguments could have been (and in some cases were) used to respond to the people who complained about nothing to do. Just as there is nothing sacred about a dislike for Ascended, there is nothing sacred about liking it, either. There is nothing inherently superior about either position.

Actually, I’d argue that a liking for ascended is an inherently superior position, because it does not take choices away from others. From those who like ascended item’s point of view, if you don’t want to work/grind/etc for them, you don’t have to, that’s your call. But those of you arguing against ascended aren’t just unwilling to work/grind/etc for them, you want to remove the option for others. That makes that side inherently selfish and inferior.

It’s all a matter of perspective. There was one MMO that suggested it was not about grinding for BiS. Some people bought that game in spite of that advertising and QQ’d enough about nothing to do that BiS grind was added. This was also in spite of the fact that there are plenty of MMO’s that offer progression. Essentially, these people were saying. “Every game has to be the way we want it, you can’t have one like you want it.” That’s the poster child for selfish.

However, it’s not that simple from either side. People who asked for grind did not set out to take anything away from anyone, and people who hate Ascended are not trying to take anything away from anyone. Both sides are arguing for a game that is played the way they want it to play. Next time you want to throw stones at people over this issue, I suggest you look at which side actually got their way and which side didn’t.

Regardless of what you feel people set out to do, the fact remains that the way ascended gear was implemented, those who don’t like to grind are in no way forced to, and are in no way locked out of content, outside of their own psychosis that is. The opposite is true if ascended gear were not implemented at all, the people who enjoy that sort of thing would have nothing.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Xenon.4537:

Ascended gear isn’t dumb, you just don’t yet understand that it’s an optional long-term goal meant for certain players who have the time and resources to pursue it. You are angry because you have been trained to expect something. Well things change. Different games are different. Is it not humanity’s ability to adapt one of its greatest strengths?

The same arguments could have been (and in some cases were) used to respond to the people who complained about nothing to do. Just as there is nothing sacred about a dislike for Ascended, there is nothing sacred about liking it, either. There is nothing inherently superior about either position.

Actually, I’d argue that a liking for ascended is an inherently superior position, because it does not take choices away from others. From those who like ascended item’s point of view, if you don’t want to work/grind/etc for them, you don’t have to, that’s your call. But those of you arguing against ascended aren’t just unwilling to work/grind/etc for them, you want to remove the option for others. That makes that side inherently selfish and inferior.

I actually LIKE that legendaries are so difficult to get. As it is, there are far too many people with them already.

@Kevan

You keep saying the same thing over and over. “This is my opinion, this is my opinion this is my opinion… not my job to understand, not my job to understand… blah blah blah.” Seems to me like if you don’t want other people criticizing your flawed views, you should put them in your diary, not a forum meant for discussion.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Subdue.5479:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Subdue.5479:

Let’s say you’re correct and that’s what early buyers wanted. Now, it’s not, as can be seen by the larger turn out of players, by new found organization amongst players to secure objectives. Let’s not forget that a quick google search will show that a lot of people were complaining that there was nothing left to achieve once they hit 80. Is it really a wrong turn for the game given that more people like it than not? More people are active within the game now, than before?

Do you have a link to show that more people play now than at launch? Do you have metrics to show that people who were complaining about “nothing to achieve” would not have been satisfied with more robust horizontal progression — of which there was very little at launch — and very little today.

I remember a lot of “nothing to do” posts, not a lot of “no stat increase to grind for” posts.

I wasn’t playing this game at launch, so I can’t really comment as to how populated this game was at launch. I can say that however that Lion’s Arch has been more active and populated on Yak’s Bend in the last few weeks than it was 3-4 months ago.

That’s a personal observation though, and I don’t really expect you to put much stock in that. Instead, let’s look at the facts. A.Net is a for-profit company, seeking to maximize their gains. Do you think they would implement ascended weapons after ascended accessories and amulets if the statistics showed that introduction of ascended accessories turned more people away from the game than brought people in or kept people playing? Do you think they would implement ascended armors after ascended armors if they saw that ascended weapons turned more people away than brought them in?

Be logical. A.Net isn’t making decisions in a vacuum here. They’re trying to give as many players as possible what they want. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Ascended items were a great compromise. They do not gate players out of any content but they do give players that are more accustomed to some stat progression something to look forward to.

Be logical… OK.

I have no trouble believing that more people currently playing either like the Ascended pursuit or don’t care one way or the other about it than there are players that hate it. However, that’s because some of the players who don’t like the change in direction have left the game with each Ascended implementation.

The population that’s opposed gets smaller with each additional type of Ascended added. Failure to push the remainder of the tier out would have angered the population who wanted the tier. Having driven off players on one side of the discussion, driving off the other side would not be a good business decision.

I do believe that economics played an important role in the Ascended decision. We’ll never know what might have happened if ANet had opted to provide the promised horizontal/cosmetic progression rather than shallow vertical progression. They had the opportunity to push the alternative MMO progression they advertised. However, it doesn’t take an economist to realize that adding Ascended Rings and a back-piece took a lot less resources than developing the robust options for skill-based and/or cosmetic progression that would have been needed for HP.

Do you believe that that more people who hate ascended gear quit than people who stayed for it or even returned for it, keeping in mind that it was released in stages, after each Arena.Net was able to kitten the net effect of the changes on the population?

Shakkara.2641:

In GW1 you could get to max level and best-in-slot gear in 3 hours, levels are just there to not overwhelm the new player with options, its a tutorial. I have thousands of hours in GW1, so 99.9999999999% of my playtime was at max level with best in slot gear. With GW2, no such luck.

There are and there will be many MMOs that have no vertical progression whatsoever. Puzzle Pirates. Second Life. Wurm Online. The Chronicles of Spellborn. For a more modern approach, take a look at Everquest Next. No levels, no progression. Just total freedom. EQNext is going to kill the outdated WoW MMO model, and ITS ABOUT TIME!

Yea the “WoW killer…” We’ve heard that before. How long have people MMOs been trying to beat out WoW? It’s easy to criticize WoW’s model, and who knows, you may be right that it’s less fun, but there is a certain amount of satisfaction achievement from completing something difficult that people can’t get from something that’s just basically handed to them. And let’s be real here. I like dressing up my character, customizing gear, etc. But that’s not for everyone. Ascended items give them something to strive for, without really taking anything of substance away from the people who just want to play dress up.

FALSE!

Fractals quickly become unplayable without Ascended items with Agony resist, and it significantly unbalances WvW.

Uh no. You can do Fractals 1-19 with 0 AR, 20-29 with 15 AR, 30-39 with 30 AR, and 40-49 with 45 AR. Translated into acquisition costs, you get 20 AR from your rings, which not only drop from Fractals 10 and higher, but are also purchasable via pristine fractal relics, which you get more than enough of before you even need them. You get another 5 from your backpiece for 1850 fractal relics, again, attainable long before you need them. That’s already 25 right there. Then you get 5 more from amulet, which is purchased only with laurels, which you get for 5 minutes of effort each day. That gives you enough AR for fractals 1-39 just from doing the fractals themselves and nothing else. If you want to shoot for the 40+ category, then it’s ~ 12g + Laurels or 5g + guild merits for each accessory, and 75g – by far most expensive in the whole set, to ascend your backpiece. That’s 45 AR, enough to play even the highest levels of fractals before you even touch ascended armors and weapons.

And let’s not forget, the actual cost of making an ascended armor/weapon is directly tied to how much people WANT ascended armors/weapons. A few months down the line, when the people who want the ascended items have them and the demand has simmered down, the cost of making these items will likewise decrease, and they too will be easy to acquire.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Subdue.5479:

Let’s say you’re correct and that’s what early buyers wanted. Now, it’s not, as can be seen by the larger turn out of players, by new found organization amongst players to secure objectives. Let’s not forget that a quick google search will show that a lot of people were complaining that there was nothing left to achieve once they hit 80. Is it really a wrong turn for the game given that more people like it than not? More people are active within the game now, than before?

Do you have a link to show that more people play now than at launch? Do you have metrics to show that people who were complaining about “nothing to achieve” would not have been satisfied with more robust horizontal progression — of which there was very little at launch — and very little today.

I remember a lot of “nothing to do” posts, not a lot of “no stat increase to grind for” posts.

I wasn’t playing this game at launch, so I can’t really comment as to how populated this game was at launch. I can say that however that Lion’s Arch has been more active and populated on Yak’s Bend in the last few weeks than it was 3-4 months ago.

That’s a personal observation though, and I don’t really expect you to put much stock in that. Instead, let’s look at the facts. A.Net is a for-profit company, seeking to maximize their gains. Do you think they would implement ascended weapons after ascended accessories and amulets if the statistics showed that introduction of ascended accessories turned more people away from the game than brought people in or kept people playing? Do you think they would implement ascended armors after ascended armors if they saw that ascended weapons turned more people away than brought them in?

Be logical. A.Net isn’t making decisions in a vacuum here. They’re trying to give as many players as possible what they want. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Ascended items were a great compromise. They do not gate players out of any content but they do give players that are more accustomed to some stat progression something to look forward to.

Ision.3207:

Subdue.5479:

stale.9785:

Subdue – that particular quote outright says you are wrong. The best statistical gear, for everyone, without working for it. The fact that you continue to pick individual words from it and quibble about them says far more about you than the people you argue with. At one point, in another thread, you stated point blank that exotic was still “best in slot” when that is categorically untrue.

We get it – you like vertical progression. This game, however, was marketed on the promise of having NO vertical progression. Deal with it.

If this game were marketed with no vertical progression, there would be no character levels. There would be no tiers of item (basic, fine, masterwork, rare, exotic). Vertical progression is at the very core of this game, and every other MMO, GW1 included.

If anything, YOU are the one that’s picking and choosing parts of the statement rather than reading the whole thing. Is ascended gear mandatory for anything? No. It’s optional, JUST LIKE THEY SAID IT WOULD BE.

Also, in the thread you’re talking about, I stated that your definition of “best in slot” is too limited and irrelevant to GW2. Best in slot in other MMOs entails access to content that is otherwise inaccessible or impossible to accomplish. That’s not the case in GW2, where exotic gear, and really even rare gear, is enough for pretty much all content. If you’re going to quote me, then quote me completely. Just like if you’re going to reference a quote from A.Net, don’t just read what you want to read and ignore the rest.

In this game, the path from 1 to 80 is no more than an extended tutorial. And having 5 tiers of armor is meaningless when the BiS armor is easily obtainable. But if it makes you happy, okay, then try this: originally, GW2 was a vertical progression game for your leveling experience, and then for a small amount of time before you get the easily obtainable max stat gear. This entire process takes about 2 to 6 weeks depending on how much you push. And after that, the game that was marketed kicks in, and that toon is in a horizontal-progression game – forevermore. That is essense was the GW2 that was marketed as for years on end, and the one that the majority of early buyers wanted.

But you already knew that.

;-)

Let’s say you’re correct and that’s what early buyers wanted. Now, it’s not, as can be seen by the larger turn out of players, by new found organization amongst players to secure objectives. Let’s not forget that a quick google search will show that a lot of people were complaining that there was nothing left to achieve once they hit 80. Is it really a wrong turn for the game given that more people like it than not? More people are active within the game now, than before?

And furthermore, given that players who choose not to go after this new tier of equipment are in no way forced to play the game any differently from how they were playing it before, would you not agree that it’s a solution that addresses the concerns of the masses without ignoring the minority that doesn’t want any sort of grind?

stale.9785:

Subdue – that particular quote outright says you are wrong. The best statistical gear, for everyone, without working for it. The fact that you continue to pick individual words from it and quibble about them says far more about you than the people you argue with. At one point, in another thread, you stated point blank that exotic was still “best in slot” when that is categorically untrue.

We get it – you like vertical progression. This game, however, was marketed on the promise of having NO vertical progression. Deal with it.

If this game were marketed with no vertical progression, there would be no character levels. There would be no tiers of item (basic, fine, masterwork, rare, exotic). Vertical progression is at the very core of this game, and every other MMO, GW1 included.

If anything, YOU are the one that’s picking and choosing parts of the statement rather than reading the whole thing. Is ascended gear mandatory for anything? No. It’s optional, JUST LIKE THEY SAID IT WOULD BE.

Also, in the thread you’re talking about, I stated that your definition of “best in slot” is too limited and irrelevant to GW2. Best in slot in other MMOs entails access to content that is otherwise inaccessible or impossible to accomplish. That’s not the case in GW2, where exotic gear, and really even rare gear, is enough for pretty much all content. If you’re going to quote me, then quote me completely. Just like if you’re going to reference a quote from A.Net, don’t just read what you want to read and ignore the rest.

TooBz.3065:

Subdue.5479:

Please link me to where GW2 is “advertised” as easy to obtain BiS. The closest I’ve been able to find is the manifesto where it actually says “You don’t have to wait to start having fun,” which is true with exotic, and even rare gear.

Sure.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success/

revelant quote

Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.

Key phrase: so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.

And if you consider legendaries as “the rarest items in the game”, which they are, is this not still accurate? And notice the use of the word “mandatory.” Ascended gear is not in any way “mandatory.” Honestly, I feel like you either don’t understand what a gear treadmill is, or you’re intentionally misusing the phrase to garner support.

TooBz.3065:

Subdue.5479:

Please link me to where GW2 is “advertised” as easy to obtain BiS. The closest I’ve been able to find is the manifesto where it actually says “You don’t have to wait to start having fun,” which is true with exotic, and even rare gear.

Sure.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success/

revelant quote

Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.

Please link me to where GW2 explained to player (prior to launch) that the game would add a tier of time gated BiS gear that would have better stats.

It’s an MMO dude, that’s the expectation.

Also, I never claimed that GW2 advertised on that. The person I quoted said they advertised on his point, so it’s fair to ask where.

They were probably just covering their bases because they knew that even with their very explicit and direct wording, that the vast majority of players would understand right away, there’s bound to be someone who doesn’t get it.