Guild Wars 2

I’ve been refraining from posting on this topic these last few days, but I’ve gotta ask since it’s been brought up more or less in these last few pages:

Why should AP be awarded for doing what you would have been doing anyway? What is intrinsically problematic with being expected to go out of your way for a reward?

As a related question: given that the prevailing argument is that the old dailies could be completed by some without doing anything they wouldn’t be doing anyway, what purpose did the old dailies serve? What value did they add to the game?

HtFde.3856:

Subdue.5479:

HtFde.3856:

Metallus.7690:

Mhm yeah, allright, you know what you are talking about, <10% crit chance

Try it with a class that actually has to work for crit to be high Oh – and – if you want that balance to be “true to a level of that player” – please use a level 6 char We were, after all, not discussing how downleveling WORKS but how someone wants it to be – i.e. no difference between a level 6 and a downleveled 80. Now go make a level 6, give him all the +crit you can get and then check your numbers again.

This is pretty funny. You’re talking about the effectiveness of your build when downleveled to 6 in a newbie zone. Does your build really even matter when you’re running around in a zone designed for people with no traits at all anyway?

Let’s use some common sense please.

It would be fun to have users read threads or post sequence before they jump in. The original line was some user wanted downleveled players to be exactly like new players of that level. And now go make a level 6 Mesmer and see how much fun that class is to play at such a low level … and that user wanted every level 80 to be set back to that stage where every monster takes ages to kill …

I’d like for you to point me to a place in the game where a regular mob takes “ages” to kill for an appropriately leveled character.

Mirta.5029:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

. . . which was what happened with the old ones too.

there was a bit more choice though. WvW was separate from PVE and for both you had to complete 5 out of 10 I think, which is better that having to complete 3 out of 4 (4 per PVE, Spvp, WvW). I do appreciate the reward chests for each one and it only taking like 10 minutes to finish the dailies now though, but still, more choice would be welcome.

An individual’s personal preferences for one game mode or another does not mean A.Net has limited their choices to 3/4. It’s still 3/12.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Mr Snotty Pants.3980:

Very few talk about enjoying the new dailies for themselves.

Of course they don’t. There’s nothing enjoyable about them, after all.

There wasn’t really anything enjoyable about the old dailies either.

HtFde.3856:

Metallus.7690:

Mhm yeah, allright, you know what you are talking about, <10% crit chance

Try it with a class that actually has to work for crit to be high Oh – and – if you want that balance to be “true to a level of that player” – please use a level 6 char We were, after all, not discussing how downleveling WORKS but how someone wants it to be – i.e. no difference between a level 6 and a downleveled 80. Now go make a level 6, give him all the +crit you can get and then check your numbers again.

This is pretty funny. You’re talking about the effectiveness of your build when downleveled to 6 in a newbie zone. Does your build really even matter when you’re running around in a zone designed for people with no traits at all anyway?

Let’s use some common sense please.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Saint.5647:

Being told “If you don’t like it, don’t play” comes off to me as saying “If you don’t like your country’s political decisions, leave” or “If you don’t agree with the current administration, don’t vote.” Many of the Forum White Knights are very aggressive in their rhetoric against open discussion and free speech.

First, free speech means I can tell you to shut up if I don’t like what you said, or how you said it. The latter is more the reason I’ll say it, though I’m less likely to anymore. If you’re going to invoke free speech to defend your right to say something? I’m going to invoke it right back against people trying to shut me up for being a “White Knight”

(I’m really more of a gray one anymore anyway. I ran out of bleach.)

Second, free speech doesn’t extend to private forums. Which this is. I really wish people grasped that concept more than the first one. If you want free speech, take it to Reddit.

Lastly, sometimes it’s not open discussion either – it’s just bashing. Sure, this goes both ways . . . but it’s still not good for either side to get represented by people whose idea of “open discussion” begins with “Why does this game suck?” or “Why is ANet trying to kill their game?”. That’s not open discussion. That’s trying to start a circlekitty.

@Tobias:

That is not what free speech means. You really should look it up before you correct someone. Free speech means that the government is not allowed to deny a citizen the right to express him/herself. This actually comes with a host of limitations (slander, libel, etc), but the concept itself applies specifically to the government, not to interactions between individuals.

@Saint:

Comparing not playing a game you don’t enjoy to leaving the country is a ridiculous comparison considering the cost of alternatives for both.

This is the first wintersday achievement I did, because I knew the longer I waited, the fewer people would be needing it, and thus the longer it would take to do. It’s unfortunate for you that you weren’t playing when wintersday came out though. Perhaps you should just find some like minded people and pop the dolyaks yourselves?

As for choices, I don’t really think it matters much so long as you plan ahead. I personally took about four hours total to complete the meta achievement, and that’s just because I’m not particularly great at the choir bells.

No thanks.

I want to choose my mini based on how it looks, not on what items it might give me, and I most definitely do not want to be seeing, “Just a second guys I’m going to go check ____ for a mini,” in every dungeon.

People seem to throw the word “forced” around on this thread. For a lot of people, the daily changes amount to more freedom and greater rewards.

Djinn.9245:

Vayne.8563:

HtFde.3856:

Vayne.8563:

That’s the most ridiculous thing you’ve said. Play the way you want doesn’t mean every single weapon is going to be as effective as every other in every situation. That’s ridiculous.

The professions are designed with multiple weapons for a reason. I don’t know a lot of people who melee the Fire Elemental. Why? Because if you stand on top of him he burns you to death. That’s the game part. Figuring out what works.

The first part was from me but you replied to someone else’s reply then … are dailies now on part with world bosses/champs?

And – trust me on this one – when there’s 5 level 80 necros who have put their marks on the spawn zone and 5 level 80 eles who use staff 2/fire on that spot your little arrow is still in the air (if you’re a warrior) when there is nothing to hit anymore.

Of course people do weapon swap (after they’re level 15 – beofre that they can’t) and most people do carry s full set of weapons but the situation is different in the low level zones:

Monster health does not scale, monster amount does not scale.

I can go bow warrior in Frostgorge or Orr and get registered for every event – why? – because monsters live long enough so that my slooow arrow will still hit them and if it hits it does enough damage. Not so in level 15 – 40 zones, though, as – like I said – my arrow is still in the air when the monsters are already dead.

The problem could be solved very easily (and without tweaking the low level event code) by being less specific and make it 4 events in Kryta instead of 4 events in Queensdale.

I’m not saying that scaling doesn’t need tweaking. In fact, I’ve said scaling does need tweaking.

But saying that this is a play how you want issue is ridiculous. You can always play how you want, but if it’s not working for you and you don’t alter your play for a few minutes to get a specific result, I’m a whole lot less sympathetic.

I completely disagree that these events should be scaled to the level required in a low level zone. All that will happen is that low level players, especially new players, who start trying the event before the zerg in the area all gets there will be completely stomped. No, the answer isn’t scaling, it is distribution of players.

And there is a huge difference between changing weapons for a strategy to fight a mob and being forced to change weapons to try to just tag anything for credit. The latter shouldn’t be necessary and is only an issue because of the stupid amount of players forced into this situation.

I get the distinct feeling that scaling doesn’t mean what you think it means.

It was on discount on black friday I believe.

Elyssa.8307:

So today you need a lvl 80 character because two of the choices are orr vista or jormag… yeah, what about the people just starting up?

Also it’s so lame to try hunt for events… it’s frustrating! suddenly 250 players in snowden drifts! If there were many options to choose from and you did’nt have to do the pathetic event run it’d be okay.

new systems just sucks currently.

Please understand how the new system works before you comment. It’s been repeated many times now, is in the wiki, and is in the announcement. If you don’t have a high level character, you get a different set of dailies.

Djinn.9245:

Vayne.8563:

HtFde.3856:

The “do 4 events in” are a bad design – all it leads to are overcrowded maps and frustrated melee players who see enemies melt ebfore they have even spawned – add to this that in low level areas events to not scale properly – so you have still like 5 grawl in stage II of the ice shaman regardless of the 50+ players …

As a melee it is very hard to score a hit so that you get recognized for the event and for new players it is next to impossible to get recognized because a true level 5 does way less damage than a fully geared downscaled level 80.

So it would be better to have things spread out (like with the vista or the mining) and make it "do 4 events in the Shiverpeaks, Kryta, etc.) which would not lead to all that clustering.

I don’t suppose you could not melee for the span of four events? I don’t. Even on melee characters. I use a staff on my guardian and a bow on my warrior. My thieves use a bow or a pistol with ricchochet. It works fine.

First: so play a different way than you want, huh? That’s the answer? Figures.

However, some people can’t even get to an event that pops up right in their map area before geared vets with speed get there first and kill everything. The problem is the events being limited to a single zone, not what weapons people are using.

Actually the problem is poor event scaling. And we’ve already seen that it is possible to have events that scale properly (Silver Wastes, Drytop), so it’s just a matter of applying adjustments that they should already have a grasp on.

This isn’t a problem with the daily, but rather, a problem that the daily has shed light on.

With regards to your forum defenders and exploits comment, what exactly are you comparing it to?

@Lishtenbird:

Seriously? That’s what you took from that? You plucked ONE line from the thorough explanation to respond to?

There’s a third kind of disagreement:

The daily system was changed to encourage players into different game modes and areas, and as you cleverly pointed out earlier in this thread, the vast majority of players are noobs (50% of players under 800 AP) and most certainly do benefit from the additional guidance. Furthermore, you can still “Play as you want.” Nothing at all that you were enjoying before has been locked out. You’re still able to wander about aimlessly in open world to your heart’s content. And should you choose to seek out the dailies, they’re entirely doable in a very short time frame.

As a primarily PvE (dungeons) player, I very rarely if ever finished all 5 dailies just by “Playing as I want,” even in the old system. I always ended up going to Brisbane to revive NPCs, or Queensdale to kill ambients, Blazeridge to gather, or whatever the daily is that day to finish off my 5, and gaining 10 AP never happened. That experience is the same for many playing styles. It is in fact only the “wander around open world” group that may have been completing the dailies organically, and even then it was very unlikely that you were completing 10 AP worth. For the rest of us, there isn’t a big change at all, as we were WPing around to complete the dailies anyway.

But my point isn’t just “This is good for me so I’m going to defend it,” even if it is. A.Net is very clearly trying to achieve something with the dailies that the old dailies were simply not accomplishing. You don’t have to like it, but if AP is important to you, then great, you’re earning it at a higher rate. If it’s not, then also great. You can just log in and do whatever you like, as you already have the other rewards.

Spook.5847:

Subdue.5479:

Elden Arnaas.4870:

So zone is map, and region is region. Then that’s 9 needlessly specific choices. Which is one of our major arguments – too much specificity. And why can’t all game modes have more choices?(than 4)

One of the goals of the revamp is to encourage players to try different game modes and activities. If all the game modes have a bunch of easy stuff to complete, people just default to the easy stuff. In the current setup, there’s 2 easy, 2 time consuming dailies in each mode, which means you can stick to your own game mode if you like and complete the dailies but take longer, or you can explore a different game mode and finish faster. Choice.

Not choice; cattle chute. Learn when you are being herded/controlled, please.

You can call it what you like. It’s yet to take me more than 10 minutes to complete the daily and get 10 AP since the patch, a feat which took much longer previously. If all it takes is a quick visit to WvW to make that happen, why the heck not?

Djinn.9245:

Sinifair.1026:

Djinn.9245:

Sinifair.1026:

Personally, I like the new dailies, they work very well for me.

Shouldn’t we be allowed to have fun in GW2 the way we always have? With access to the same Achievement rewards that everyone else gets?

It’s not that I don’t get your point. Getting rewarded for the content you enjoy doing? I’m all for it, however, I don’t think that the dailies should reward you for that content.

Your answer is kind of confusing. You are enjoying the new Dailies, therefore you are being rewarded for doing the content you enjoy. Yet you say that I should not get the daily reward for doing the content I enjoy…

He’s saying you picked a plant, congratulations you were rewarded with a cabbage.

You should actually have to do something for the achievements.

Albadaran.1283:

Ok to summarize a lot of what’s been saying:
Dailies are done for the 10 achievement points. Not for fun. Even those who play the new dailies often admit that its not for the fun. Especially the PvE dailies are subject of criticisms. Mostly because of the lack of choice. Obvious solution:

Give us more choice!! Instead of 3 out of 4 make it 3 out of 10! Everyone happy!

It’s actually 3 out of 12.

Some food for thought… Since the leaderboard has been brought up. Yes, those at the top benefit from the changes, but let’s not forget, the changes are aimed at moving people around Tyria and exposing them to more content than they otherwise might not otherwise be exposed to. This doesn’t just benefit those at the top. It benefits those at the bottom too! People below 800 AP likely havent had full map completion, and may not even have visited pvp or wvw yet. I know I for one had 3000+ AP before I first set foot in PvP.

Uh… I’ve never had this issue. The game has been around for over 2 years though, so if you’re trying to get some one-word normal format name like “Mike” you’re going to have a tough time. Also, names have to be unique across all servers, as the servers play together, so switching servers isn’t really a fix for that.

Sytherek.7689:

Neural.1824:

Gaile Gray.6029:

I did the dailies. Because I felt like it. And hey, I survived too!

So toxic sarcasm is acceptable here, so long as your opinion supports current game mechanics. Good to know.

Gaile has a history of partisanship and sarcasm. I find her attitude refreshing; she actually has a personality and opinions. She’s not a whitewashed corporate minion. I like her.

The danger is, she’ll anger brittle players. Whether that’s good or bad is another matter of opinion.

Bottom line: the dailies are optional. If someone dislike the current dailies (my wife), they may find other activities, or they may quit. That’s normal, rational, and to be expected.

What ANet needs to consider: Is a game change increasing or decreasing player populations, which in turn affects revenue? If they revive WvW with this change in dailies, does it also reduce the overall population of people spending real money in the trading post?

I wonder whether PvE or WvW players spend more money. My experience suggests that PvEers (those who hate WvW) spend more, but I could be wrong.

I would actually bet that WvWers spend more. You’ll see a lot of WvWers with expensive looking gear, but often times (especially for commanders) they actually lose money buying all the siege they use. One commander I know told me he buys 1000 gems every couple of weeks to replenish his siege.

Crysto.7089:

i mean, prestige and adoration for you as a player are also a gain, which also happens to be more valuable than some in-game pixels, but anet doesn’t consider that to be a problem so i would think it would be fine.

I can’t tell if you’re just playing dumb or…

Feel free to message me in game any time!

Djinn.9245:

echo.2053:

Djinn.9245:

And how do you get ectos from that?

Every time you do one of the daily achievments you get a bonus chest. For completing exotic crafter you get Chest of the Crafter which Contains 3 Globs of Ectoplasm and 2 Scrolls of Experience.

its posted in the wiki http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Daily
its been posted here on the forums several times
its said in the map chat at least one time a day when this achievement is made available- which is how i found out
Most players powerlevel by crafting – Artificer is one of the cheapest crafts
Most players dont like clicking staacks of luck so they combine it through the Artificer

Your avg player has to go pretty far out of his/her way on a reg basis to not find out by accident or given this knowledge.

First, I was just curious about the ectos, not sure why you are answering so aggressively. I was not playing for about 10 days when the Dailies were first changed – busy with family / holiday stuff.

Combining luck into higher rarities has been around since luck itself was introduced into the game almost a year ago. It’s not something that came about in the 10 days you were off on holiday.

Also, in the previous dailies, it would trigger completion for the Daily Crafter achievement, so there’s absolutely no reason to think it wouldn’t work with Daily Exotic Crafter.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Subdue.5479:

This is your second post after my question in which you’ve failed to answer my question, so I’ll just ask it, again.

What do you feel would be the downside to improving the scaling of events to more appropriately match the number of players working on said events?

I’m curious as to why you even need me to answer the question? You’ve already answered it for me, haven’t you? I mean, I don’t want to sound argumentative for the sake of being argumentative, to use your words, but you’ve already put the words in my mouth and drawn your own conclusion.

What would be the point of offering any answer, or opposing opinion, when you’ve already reach the conclusion anything I would say is strawman because, to use your words again, if I could offer one I would’ve by now.

Right?

In other words, you’ve told me anything I have to say you wouldn’t believe in so many words. So what would be the point of giving you an answer then?

This is your third post after I asked you a very simple question, and yet you continue to dodge it. Again:

What do you feel would be the downside to improving the scaling of events to more appropriately match the number of players working on said events?

naughteblonde.7194:

Subdue.5479:

I think your particular situation is rather unique, and yes I can agree it is materially worse for you if you really only get 4 hour blocks 4 times a month to play. That said, it seems you’re perfectly capable of logging in to trigger the daily and logging back off, and like you said, it’s 15s a day to do that.

As far as what you’re able to do now, well, you already get most of the reward just for showing up, so more than ever you can just go off and do whatever you like. If it was the AP that was significant for you, then you have to do far less to earn it now than you did before, as 10 AP a day before used to take hours. And if the AP wasn’t significant, then you haven’t lost anything at all.

You are correct that the AP isn’t significant to me so no, I don’t feel like I’ve lost that at all.
I’m my personal case I did what play during the time I could because it was (and still is) likely I will not be capable of the other 24-27 days, even for the 15 second log in. I would play to enjoy when I could then not worry after that. It means that 16 log in may end up spread over months rather than days. If I’m lucky I may get more time or someone else to log in, if not I’m stuffed.

Another point to me is the term reward – IMO the reward wasn’t just the laurels or the items in game. Part of the reward was the enjoyment of playing how I personally liked to. With the increasing tweaks to encourage players in the direction Anet wants I find my enjoyment of the game play (part of my reward) to be lessening.

I know my situation may be unique but with each update it brings a little more frustration to me. My monthlies gone, my dailies narrowed, my traits require specific play, my personal story handed only in chunks.
Its the little things rather than one big outrage to me.

One thing I’d like to point out, which doesn’t really fix your situation, but it does give it a little bit more context:

You’re currently logging in 4 times a month, gaining 14 laurels a month, or 168 over the course of a year. At your current rate of 4 logins a month under the new system, you’d earn 84 laurels a year. However, if you were to increase your logins by just 3 days a month, or 7 days total a month, you would log in 84 times over the course of the year, for three full revolutions around the login track, for a net gain of 165 laurels, putting you at right about where you are now, in addition of course to all the other new rewards that you weren’t getting before.

Again, not ideal for you, I know, but certainly better than how it seems at first look.

Djinn.9245:

Carighan.6758:

Djinn.9245:

What I see here are a bunch of experienced players saying that other players who are just trying to play the game and get their dailies like they used to (just playing the game) should do a bunch of research so they know there are X events in one area of any particular map that respawn rapidly so you can go stand there (instead of playing the game) and wait with a ground-targeted AoE to hopefully just tag a mob (since every other experienced player will be there as well) so you can get a completion.

I’m not sure why just being able to play the game wasn’t a good way to do the dailies. This is sooo much better.

Bolded part is the important one. If I have to explain this, I’m not sure you’d get the explanation. In any case, trying:

The idea of a daily system is (and was, there was a blog post before the old one!) to entice people to do things they may not already be doing by offering additional rewards for doing that.

I believe you that there was a blog post, but do you really think the openworld PvE dailies are enticing players to do things they haven’t done? You think people haven’t gathered 10 nodes before? And you think it matters where those nodes are gathered?And you think its a good strategy to encourage the entire game to go to Brisbane for events? You think inexperienced players have a good time trying to complete this Daily with all the vets zerging around?

In every MMO I know, Dailies are encouragement only for new players. For vets, they become a rote way to get extra stuff. And for new players this new Daily system must be a disaster forcing them to deal with the entire game in one zone.

Actually, you’ve already got examples on the forums of people saying they tried something because of the dailies and ended up enjoying it enough to try it again, so yes, it’s working.

As for events, like I’ve stated in this thread, the scaling of events does need to be improved. They clearly weren’t designed to have so many people doing them, and they scale too little. That’s not a problem with the daily though, it’s a problem with scaling of events.

As for the easy dailies, I don’t know if you’ve noticed but they’re structured so that each game mode has 2 quick and easy dailies, and 2 difficult dailies, so that you can choose to do easy ones in one mode, then one easy one in another, and just breeze past them, or you can choose to do all three in the same mode, and take a bit more time. Again, that’s to create incentive to move around to different content.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Subdue.5479:

That’s essentially what you’re saying. If you could think of a single reason why improving the scaling of events based on the number participating in it, you’d have just given one, but instead you chose to ignore the question, and instead pose a strawman argument.

Are you done telling me what I’m essentially saying or do you need more time to tell me what I’m saying? Since, you know, I haven’t said anything as far as answering your question so far. Because arguing a point I haven’t made, with yourself, makes much more sense.

But don’t mind me. I’m just being argumentative even though I’ve ignored your question.

Seeing the contradictions yet?

This is your second post after my question in which you’ve failed to answer my question, so I’ll just ask it, again.

What do you feel would be the downside to improving the scaling of events to more appropriately match the number of players working on said events?

@Lishtenbird:

There wasn’t anything particularly meaningful about the dailies before the patch. Talk to a laurel vendor? Kill ambients? Remove conditions?

If anything, the fact that the changes encourage players to explore other areas and modes is far more meaningful.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Subdue.5479:

@ Ardenwolfe:

K, I’m going to step back and ask you a simple question:

What do you feel would be the downside to improving the scaling of events to more appropriately match the number of players working on said events?

Let me ask you a simple question. Has the scaling prevented you from completing the 4-event daily?

Your question is very telling. Are you of the viewpoint that because the daily can be completed, despite the unnecessarily negative experience it has on those doing it, that it shouldn’t be improved? I certainly hope you don’t take this approach on anything, because that’s exactly how you end up with mediocrity.

To answer your question though, in a way yes. I view it as a negative experience, and so I just skip it all together and do a different daily. The rewards associated with it are actually fine, and I’d consider doing it were this glaring oversight not an issue. I often do more than 3 dailies each day, depending on whether or not I like them and the reward they give. For example, today, I actually completed five of them, the last 2 just for the reward.

To give you an analogy on the situation though: Consider a virus on your computer, and all the virus did was slow your computer down to 50% of its expected capacity. You could still do everything you want on your computer, but everything would be slower, and some things would crash occasionally. You’ve seen the issue before, and know that simply installing an antivirus and scanning your computer would fix the issue. Would you really just ignore it and continue using your computer at 50% capacity?

That’s essentially what you’re saying. If you could think of a single reason why improving the scaling of events based on the number participating in it, you’d have just given one, but instead you chose to ignore the question, and instead pose a strawman argument.

@ Ardenwolfe:

K, I’m going to step back and ask you a simple question:

What do you feel would be the downside to improving the scaling of events to more appropriately match the number of players working on said events?

Another character slot.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Bell Choir is too hard to complete is what they’re saying. It doesn’t scale because the other players can’t help you, if you can believe that.

If that’s the case, as far as too many players, find another quest? One not surrounded by people? Wait to do it when the zone isn’t saturated with players all trying to get it done? Maybe group with those people? Those are just three ways, off the cuff, to fix this so-called problem.

Let’s not even go into ANet’s past philosophy please. Given the radical changes since the start, I think that’s a whole ’nother topic.

…You do realize once a train has started, it’s possible to clear every event in a zone and end up waiting for the next one to restart, right?

And yes, people could “wait until the area is less saturated, or choose another option.” Those are very really choices. However, people should choose to do or not do various dailies based on whether or not they want to do them, not based on an oversight by A.Net.

Also, while a lot has changed in the game, that particular part of A.Net’s design philosophy has been very consistent. It’s built into the drop tables, and it’s built into the way experience is distributed.

It’s one thing to disagree with someone’s complaint and state a reason for why the change would not be beneficial. It’s completely different to be argumentative just to be argumentative. You’ve actually not stated why you think scaling on the events shouldn’t be adjusted to accommodate the larger populations that A.Net has intentionally driven into the zones; you’ve just covered your ears, shook your head, and chanted, “Nope nope nope…”

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Subdue.5479:

This, however, is not a problem with the daily. It’s more a problem with event scaling, and it’s a problem that A.Net already knows how to fix, as it doesn’t become an issue in the new maps like Drytop and Silver Wastes.

Oh come on. Now it’s not scaling to your liking? Now we’re saying here that things are too easy because they don’t scale? Another threads says an event is too hard because it does. What are you people?

The Goldilocks of MMOs?

Sit your butt in an area where an event repeats with regularity. Problem solved.

That’s not the problem. When you have 20 people in a zerg that each do 100 damage, and the enemy has 1000 HP, 10 people are not going to tag the enemy. That’s quite contrary to A.Net’s philosophy of making it beneficial to help other players out.

Also, I don’t think there are any threads saying the open world events are too hard to complete.

Sytherek.7689:

Can someone explain how viewing a vista is any better / more challenging / funner than visiting the laurel vendor?

The laurel vendor has bad breath.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

So . . . you’re mad that others are getting to an event before you can? And it’s unfair? You know you can wait in certain areas for said events to occur . . . right?

I just now finished my dailies in PvE. This included most of the Wintersday ones. Didn’t do snowball fight or jumping puzzle. Did the Fields last.

Took me, maybe, fifteen minutes? I’m not sure before I decided to craft backpacks for their skins since I crafted jeweling tools for my masterwork daily.

. . .

Why is this a new trend on the boards lately?

Eh, I would say the events could use some work. The problem is that they’re not designed to scale with the numbers that are attempting to do them. It’s one thing to say you should get to the events faster. It’s another to say you should have a ground targeted aoe pre-placed where the mob will spawn if you want any chance of tagging it to get credit.

This, however, is not a problem with the daily. It’s more a problem with event scaling, and it’s a problem that A.Net already knows how to fix, as it doesn’t become an issue in the new maps like Drytop and Silver Wastes.

Vayne.8563:

Crafting an exotic is free if you have an artificer at 100 or higher. Lack of knowledge is more of a problem here than the dailies.

You can craft the exotic lucks with 0 in artificer.

Edit:

Craft enough luck and your artificer will reach ~ 28 or so.

Mayko.1289:

Take example the daily event, today was Gandarent Field or whatever, went there and sooooooo many people were there, everytime i try to do an event i get there its finished already! took me like 1 hour and half just to get 4 events done, cos i couldn’t find any!!!! they were either done when i get there or bugged……. this system is terrible! it felt like there’s hardly any events going on! and 4 events shouldn’t take 1 hour and half to complete!

So… do a different daily?

PvP?

WvW?

Astralporing.1957:

Subdue.5479:

4. I’m not sure how EotM interacts with the dailies exactly, but I can’t imagine that taking a keep is that much faster than completing 4 events in a PvE zone, especially if the enemy is contesting that keep.

You… have never been to EotM, right? Basically, if the zerg decides to take the keep, the keep gets taken. The enemy is likely taking a different keep in that time, noone in the karma train has time to defend objectives.

Subdue.5479:

What you’re picking at here are balance issues, not “OMFG THE NEW DAILIES SUCK” issues.

I’m doing both, actually. The imbalance is huge, and the PvE dailies, compared to the WvW ones do “suck”.

Subdue.5479:

If it turns out the effort required to complete the dailies in one mode are too far gone compared to the others, that can be tweaked. That doesn’t change the obvious goal of the changes.

Well, the goal is one of the things i am set against. I don’t like straightjackets and railroading. I am grown enough that i don’t need others to tell me what i should consider fun, and what i shouldn’t. Especially since it doesn’t work anyway.
But then those new dailies were never about fun, but only about metrics.

Like I said, your experience in WvW has been different than mine, and I’ve not tried to get the WvW dailies in EotM, so I can’t really comment.

That said, you’re not really straightjacketed by the game to anything. If anything, with the bulk of the rewards shifted off the dailies, you’re less required to do them. If anything, you’re straightjacketed by the your own compulsion to complete optional content.

There is a gold reward at the end of every dungeon. Do you feel straightjacketed to complete those?

How about jumping puzzles?

PvP reward tracks?

I would certainly hope not.

CoE 1-3
AC 1-3
CoF 1
SE 1

Those are the most efficient dungeons in terms of gold, in that order probably. The other ones Haishao mentioned are easy to do, but they take longer than these ones, or have weaker drops, making them less effective.

Liz.1497:

Subdue.5479:

That’s not a list of things you can’t do now, it’s a list of mundane stuff you want to be incrementally rewarded for in addition to the intrinsic reward for doing the stuff.

So basically, what it boils down to is, you think you should be given a small AP reward for every mundane activity you do, rather than be expected to complete 3 out of 12 relatively simple tasks for an even greater reward, even though those tasks would often take you no more than 5-10 minutes, if that?

Got it, we’re on the same page now.

It took you en entire thread to figure out that that is what people wanted? That is exactly what people who want the old system back, miss. Before you go around acting like this is lazy and entitled, let me remind you that a) the old system was specifically designed for exactly this purpose (as in, to get people to log in and play some every day), so it’s not like people are asking for something that is totally unlike the game and unreasonable, and b) the people who like the new system like that its faster and you get more rewards for doing less, effectively making them “entitled and lazy”.

A. That aspect of the daily has been moved to the login rewards.

B. You can call it what you want, it doesn’t change that the system is better for players who are willing to adapt. Like you said, it’s faster and more rewarding, and beyond that, it’s more geared for getting people to move around the content.

naughteblonde.7194:

Ashen.2907:

naughteblonde.7194:

Ashen.2907:

There is no strangling of options. Players have more choices under the new system than the old.

Actually I’ve found one particular option removed in terms of laurels. Previously when doing a monthly I would usually log on and blast through my personal choices quite quickly (12 JP, 100 events, X kills, 4 dailies) which would take a maximum of 4 days to achieve 14 laurels (10 monthly + 4 daily). I’m not into maximizing output but that would be enough for me. I have personal reasons that limit my ability to log on often.
Now in order to get at least 14 laurels I have to log on for 16 days rather than 4 (Day 2, 7, 9, and 16) which will take me 4 times as long for a similar reward and require that I be available for a minimum time for at least 16 days as opposed to within my free time during 4 days.

Personally this is a significant restriction.

Understood, but that can also be expressed as 15 seconds per day x 16 = 4 minutes total vs how many hours per day for those 4 days ?

Dont get me wrong, I get that we all have different play styles and schedules. The point I was making in the post you quoted was that there are now more choices in how to earn the actual rewards. I dont doubt that some individuals might find that some choices are slower/faster than others.

In my personal case it ends up being that I have to find 8 days more access that I might not have, or wait 3 months to gain what previously had been one month’s worth of reward. In my opinion it says something that Anet would rather have 16×15 seconds of my play than 4x a few hours.

With the changes to the trait system and now to the dailies requiring specific content rather than an ‘earn-as-you-play’ system I find I’m building a level of resentment towards Anet for herding me in the direction they want me to play. I’m seeing areas I normally enjoy playing (EG the monthlies and dailies) now having rewards tweaked and moved to gain particular behavior from me. I started avoiding the systems they were tinkering with. Now I’m running out of things to avoid and find I’m avoiding the game instead which is sad. Instead of logging on, picking one of my many characters in progress, picking a random unexplored map and blasting through it and accomplishing my daily and a chunk of my monthly – I’m logging on, picking my log in reward, and logging off. Perhaps I’m unique in that. I don’t know.

I think your particular situation is rather unique, and yes I can agree it is materially worse for you if you really only get 4 hour blocks 4 times a month to play. That said, it seems you’re perfectly capable of logging in to trigger the daily and logging back off, and like you said, it’s 15s a day to do that.

As far as what you’re able to do now, well, you already get most of the reward just for showing up, so more than ever you can just go off and do whatever you like. If it was the AP that was significant for you, then you have to do far less to earn it now than you did before, as 10 AP a day before used to take hours. And if the AP wasn’t significant, then you haven’t lost anything at all.

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

Subdue.5479:

Furthermore, world bosses and such in pve are on a timer. Yes, you might have to wait to do them, or your timing might conflict, but they’re predictable, and if you want to do them, you can.

So, because I want them, I can get them? Please tell me your secret how you manage to kill a world boss when you’re offline… Take Maw for instance. His timer is so that he is active at 19:15 my time. I usually can come online at 19:30. And I can usually stay online for an hour/hour and a half. So, no Maw because my timing conflicts and I haven’t found that mysterious way you can still get him when you offline.

I’m pretty sure the post you quoted already states that your timing might conflict. The point is, if you want to do Maw, you can schedule yourself to show up 15 minutes earlier. Now I understand that because of work or other obligations, you might not be able to do that, but at the same time, there are plenty of easy options for completing the daily. I’ve yet to take longer than 10 minutes, and I’ve only caught the Maw once. Don’t act like it’s “Catch the Maw or daily is impossible.” That’s not the case.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Has anyone else observed that nodes in the “target” region for the gathering task seem to be sparser than when that type of mat is not the target? For instance, I went to Lornar’s Pass today to do Shiverpeaks Miner. Plenty of vegetables and trees, only found two nodes, 1 Iron, 1 Silver, in about 25 minutes of wandering. Went to Timberline to find the other two nodes. Normally, there are 3 nodes near Fort Concordia, today 1.

I went to Concordia, since that’s what you mentioned, and followed the river straight up. It took less than 3 minutes to find enough nodes for the daily. =/

@Astralporing:

1. I’m pretty sure I’ve been consistent in thinking there’s nothing wrong with having to move around and into different modes for the daily. I don’t know what you’re on about.

2. Yes, for some doing the first round of a level 1 fractal might take longer than 5 minutes, but the same can be said about taking camps in WvW. I don’t know what you’re getting at with this.

3. I don’t know what server you’re on, and what your specific situation is guild-wise, but I can’t log into WvW and have a keep under my belt in 10 minutes. I’m on Yak’s Bend, and unless one of the commanders is swooping around with a zerg, I end up just running around camps and sentries when I WvW. Maybe your experience is different. Some days the train will just rack up objective after objective, and some days it’s just an endless stalemate.

4. I’m not sure how EotM interacts with the dailies exactly, but I can’t imagine that taking a keep is that much faster than completing 4 events in a PvE zone, especially if the enemy is contesting that keep.

What you’re picking at here are balance issues, not “OMFG THE NEW DAILIES SUCK” issues. If it turns out the effort required to complete the dailies in one mode are too far gone compared to the others, that can be tweaked. That doesn’t change the obvious goal of the changes.

Lothirieth.3408:

Subdue.5479:

One of the goals of the revamp is to encourage players to try different game modes and activities. If all the game modes have a bunch of easy stuff to complete, people just default to the easy stuff. In the current setup, there’s 2 easy, 2 time consuming dailies in each mode, which means you can stick to your own game mode if you like and complete the dailies but take longer, or you can explore a different game mode and finish faster. Choice.

Ugh, this keeps getting parroted, so I’ll repeat the reply others have given several times. The game is nearly two and a half years old. A lot of players have already tried everything. Personally I have a couple map completions, a few legendaries, have tried everything.. literally been there and done that. I and many people have already explored and we don’t need to be lead around by the nose. Doing so is just irritating and entirely unhelpful and is backfiring.

And you keep calling the old dailies mundane and easy. How are the current ones not easy and mundane? You’re contradicting yourself. Viewing A vista, singular vista in the world is just as easy as viewing a vista in Ascalon. The only difference is subjective and how the task makes the player feel. That’s why many of us want that choice, to go where we like in the world, yet still in the end exerting the same amount of effort (effort means the actual actions taken to complete said activity.) The choice makes the journey subjectively more enjoyable.

Seriously, why are you so against keeping the current system of the rewards (3 dailies, each with their own small rewards, 3 total = 10AP) yet adding back in the broad daily categories or expanding the new ones to be more broad (gather x things, view a vista, complete 4 events, defeat a world boss, complete a fractal, etc.)? How would anything at all change for you? Oh..they wouldn’t. It doesn’t concern you in the least. You’d go on with your dailies as normal and those of us who’d like more freedom would get it. Everyone wins. Your arguments are literally pointless.

You keep saying the game is 2 years old, yada yada yada, but if you look at the leaderboard, you’ll see that the vast majority of players have not been playing that long.

As for mundane and easy, it’s true, the new ones are as well. I’ve not said they aren’t. In fact, I’m pretty sure I could find a quote where I said they were if I tried. But they’re designed to move you around the map, and around the game modes, something the old ones did not accomplish at all. Even in this very thread there are people who confirm that they gave in to the encouragement and tried something new, and found something they liked that they wouldn’t have tried before.

Finally, I have no problem with adding more variety to the dailies, so long as it remains 2 easy dailies, X hard/ time consuming dailies, I wouldn’t mind that. That would still fulfill the goal of encouraging players to explore other parts of the game. What I don’t want to see is the daily system packed with more generic crap and the dailies return to accomplishing absolutely nothing.

Elden Arnaas.4870:

So zone is map, and region is region. Then that’s 9 needlessly specific choices. Which is one of our major arguments – too much specificity. And why can’t all game modes have more choices?(than 4)

One of the goals of the revamp is to encourage players to try different game modes and activities. If all the game modes have a bunch of easy stuff to complete, people just default to the easy stuff. In the current setup, there’s 2 easy, 2 time consuming dailies in each mode, which means you can stick to your own game mode if you like and complete the dailies but take longer, or you can explore a different game mode and finish faster. Choice.

Coldtart.4785:

Subdue.5479:

Rewards =/= content. They didn’t remove content; they reallocated rewards. You can do everything you were doing before exactly the way you were doing it before. Nothing is stopping you from doing that.

The difference is that I used to be able to choose which content I was rewarded by to much higher extent than I can now. Dailies like kills, events, leveller, recycler, skill point accumulator, interrupter, dodger, reviver, condition applier and condition remover could be progressed virtually anywhere in the game. The new dailies, on the other hand, require me to choose between having fun or being rewarded, which is not a good choice.

Actually most activities in the game have their intrinsic rewards, and dailies just added AP on top of that. So to say you’re not getting rewarded is simply untrue. That said, chances are what you were doing was earning you less AP per day than what you could earn for a fraction of the time now. Honestly though, I would hope whatever you were doing was fun for you, not just for the AP.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Subdue.5479:

I like your reasoning though. You’ve basically confirmed that you agree it’s okay to have to stray from your comfort zone to complete the dailies. Thank you for that!

I’ve never disagreed with that notion. I just disagree with the idea that they have to be stupid pet tricks. Remember? I’m the “stupid pet trick” guy.

Standing on top of a building in a city and harvesting a specific node type in a specific region, or standing in a square in a WvW ruin and killing a dolyak, none of that is outside of my comfort zone, all of that is just too bloody stupid for words.

And what of the ones they removed? Daily puzzle jumper. Somewhat interesting if you didn’t go the lazy mesmer portal way. Gone. Story dungeon completer and the one for explorables? Gone. Personal story completer? Gone. Weren’t those actually achievements that did fit the mold of encouraging people to try other things? What about the current mix of PvE dailies would inspire WvW/PvP players to play more PvE? They didn’t just remove the painless ones, they also removed the interesting ones and replaced them with stupid pet tricks, making PvE actually seem less interesting instead of more. If those achievements must be easy and stupid, at least let them be painless so I don’t have to feel like a dog when trying to gain some AP.

Give me something interesting to do instead of hollowing out the game with every significant update.

kitten … well with this new incarnation of your views I don’t disagree as much. I think puzzles and dungeons should be part of the rotation.

The easy stuff is going to stay there to pacify some people, but having puzzles and stuff in place of the events or world boss dailies I wouldn’t disagree with. Going along with this notion though, the vista one could probably be fixed by making it a more specific vistas. Some vistas can be somewhat tricky to reach. Wall Breach Blitz comes to mind, for one.