Guild Wars 2

SHM.7628:

Subdue.5479:

To those who still cling to their whiny ways, I’d like for you to think about something:

Think about the various groups of players, what they enjoy and so on. I’ll give you some examples: PvPers, WvWers, Puzzle Jumpers!, Sit-around-LA-and-chatters, Dungeon Runners, and of course, yourselves, casual wander-around-the-mappers. How did these various groups fair under the old system? How do they fair under the new system?

Once you’ve given that some thought, is the tiny (and yes, requiring a 5 minute investment of your time is TINY) possible rise in the effort required of you not worth the massive benefit towards the more marginalized groups?

I think you (and some white knights blindly defending this) miss the issue. People could come in in before and get their dailies done with very little effort by doing what they wanted to do. Now they are being forced into other maps and get forced to do things they otherwise wouldn’t. It was enjoyable before/ now it isn’t.

Which people?

AP Hunters? Nope.

PvPers? Nope.

WvWers? Nope.

Puzzle Jumpers? Nope.

La-Chatters? Nope.

Dungeon Runners? Nope.

There was only one group of people doing what you describe, the casual wander around the map aimlessly people. And for those people, it’s just a 5 minute or so increase on their time doing other things if they are unwilling to try new things. For all the other groups, they were already having to wander outside of their preferred zones, sometimes for several hours (In the case of AP hunters).

To those who still cling to their whiny ways, I’d like for you to think about something:

Think about the various groups of players, what they enjoy and so on. I’ll give you some examples: PvPers, WvWers, Puzzle Jumpers!, Sit-around-LA-and-chatters, Dungeon Runners, and of course, yourselves, casual wander-around-the-mappers. How did these various groups fair under the old system? How do they fair under the new system?

Once you’ve given that some thought, is the tiny (and yes, requiring a 5 minute investment of your time is TINY) possible rise in the effort required of you not worth the massive benefit towards the more marginalized groups?

DaveGan.8065:

Subdue.5479:

Just look at the outrage that’s going on in this thread, and they actually made dailies -easier-.

I think that’s why people are miffed. ANet went and made the things annoying and specifically trivial so the whole activity feels like a grind. Combined with the NPE, it just makes it look like the game is going in a backwards direction.

The dailies were never particularly challenging. They were always trivial, and far more grindy than they are now. If anything, they just took the grind out of it.

Pulgogi.7619:

Subdue.5479:

Pulgogi.7619:

Subdue.5479:

Pulgogi.7619:

Subdue.5479:

I’m just going to sum up the ridiculous opposition here:

1. We don’t care that we’re getting rewarded more. That’s not the point.
2. We don’t care that it takes less time to get those greater rewards. That’s not the point.
3. We don’t care long-time marginalized groups benefit greatly from the changes (AP Hunters, PvPers, to a slightly lesser extent, WvWers). That’s not the point.

So what’s the point?

1. We want to never be pushed outside our comfort zones. That’s the point.

2. We want to expend absolutely no additional effort in order to attain any daily achievements. They should come as a natural byproduct of what we happened to be doing anyway. That’s the point.

The point is that Anet gave us “Go to ‘insert map’ and do 4 events.” “Go to ‘insert map’ and view a vista.”

So tell me what’s wrong with the previous system? Why cant I do events at my current location. Why can’t I view that vista that’s just down the road.

My view on this new daily system is this:

Login rewards: Great, very nice.
3 dailies for 10 AP: Again, that’s great
Making me go to specific areas: Not so great.

Honestly though, after thinking about it, it’s not that big of deal. Assuming Anet doesnt tweak (which is a VERY MINOR, simple tweak) the system in the future, we’ll all just simply adapt to it.

Your main qualm about the new system is that you maybe have to take a WP or an Asura gate or two…

Yea I’m just going to quote myself.

“2. We want to expend absolutely no additional effort in order to attain any daily achievements. They should come as a natural byproduct of what we happened to be doing anyway. That’s the point.”

Your godkitten right that’s my qualm. You ignored this though.

“So tell me what’s wrong with the previous system? Why cant I do events at my current location. Why can’t I view that vista that’s just down the road.”

That’s easy. The goal of the daily achievement system to expose players to different parts of the game. I imagine that’s the reason why they separated the laurels from it too, so that stubborn, whiny people who dislike anything new, different, or challenging would not find themselves terribly disadvantaged by more aggressive positioning of dailies.

That’s your answer? So you imagined? Everyone that is doing world completion is already going around different parts of the world. By default, we’re exposing ourselves to different areas just by playing the game.

Try again.

“So tell me what’s wrong with the previous system? Why cant I do events at my current location. Why can’t I view that vista that’s just down the road.”

It’s not the same thing. When you make an area a daily, you draw a population of players into that area. Caledon Forest, for example, is not the same experience when there’s numerous people running about, as compared to you being the only person you’ve seen in the last 10 minutes. By making the dailies, “Go here,” they’re able to create a more community active experience. This is especially true for the “Do X events in Y Area” achievements, where you’ll actually find people interacting, calling out in map chat when they’ve found an event.

DaveGan.8065:

Subdue.5479:

1. We want to never be pushed outside our comfort zones. That’s the point.

2. We want to expend absolutely no additional effort in order to attain any daily achievements. They should come as a natural byproduct of what we happened to be doing anyway. That’s the point.

You know what would push us outside of our comfort zones?

• Win an Arena match in PvP
• Capture a keep in WvW
• Successfully defend 4 objectives times in WvW
• Fully complete a map (home cities and LA excluded)
• Obtain a Pristine Fractal Relic
• Obtain 100 dungeon tokens
• Successfully complete a Breach event in the Silverwastes
• Defeat the Skritt Queen in Dry Top
• Defeat Tequatl or the Great Jungle Wurm (even Karka Queen if enough QQ)
• Complete a personal story arc
• Craft an exotic or ascended quality armor, weapon, or trinket

This is how you push players out of their comfort zones. Not “Come to this specific area and collect your special snowflake medal for showing up”.

I wouldn’t mind any of these. I wouldn’t necessarily do all of them, but I would not mind if this is what the dailies consisted of. I doubt A.Net could pull that off though, especially the more time consuming ones. Just look at the outrage that’s going on in this thread, and they actually made dailies -easier-.

Pulgogi.7619:

Subdue.5479:

Pulgogi.7619:

Subdue.5479:

I’m just going to sum up the ridiculous opposition here:

1. We don’t care that we’re getting rewarded more. That’s not the point.
2. We don’t care that it takes less time to get those greater rewards. That’s not the point.
3. We don’t care long-time marginalized groups benefit greatly from the changes (AP Hunters, PvPers, to a slightly lesser extent, WvWers). That’s not the point.

So what’s the point?

1. We want to never be pushed outside our comfort zones. That’s the point.

2. We want to expend absolutely no additional effort in order to attain any daily achievements. They should come as a natural byproduct of what we happened to be doing anyway. That’s the point.

The point is that Anet gave us “Go to ‘insert map’ and do 4 events.” “Go to ‘insert map’ and view a vista.”

So tell me what’s wrong with the previous system? Why cant I do events at my current location. Why can’t I view that vista that’s just down the road.

My view on this new daily system is this:

Login rewards: Great, very nice.
3 dailies for 10 AP: Again, that’s great
Making me go to specific areas: Not so great.

Honestly though, after thinking about it, it’s not that big of deal. Assuming Anet doesnt tweak (which is a VERY MINOR, simple tweak) the system in the future, we’ll all just simply adapt to it.

Your main qualm about the new system is that you maybe have to take a WP or an Asura gate or two…

Yea I’m just going to quote myself.

“2. We want to expend absolutely no additional effort in order to attain any daily achievements. They should come as a natural byproduct of what we happened to be doing anyway. That’s the point.”

Your godkitten right that’s my qualm. You ignored this though.

“So tell me what’s wrong with the previous system? Why cant I do events at my current location. Why can’t I view that vista that’s just down the road.”

That’s easy. The goal of the daily achievement system to expose players to different parts of the game. I imagine that’s the reason why they separated the laurels from it too, so that stubborn, whiny people who dislike anything new, different, or challenging would not find themselves terribly disadvantaged by more aggressive positioning of dailies.

Pulgogi.7619:

Subdue.5479:

I’m just going to sum up the ridiculous opposition here:

1. We don’t care that we’re getting rewarded more. That’s not the point.
2. We don’t care that it takes less time to get those greater rewards. That’s not the point.
3. We don’t care long-time marginalized groups benefit greatly from the changes (AP Hunters, PvPers, to a slightly lesser extent, WvWers). That’s not the point.

So what’s the point?

1. We want to never be pushed outside our comfort zones. That’s the point.

2. We want to expend absolutely no additional effort in order to attain any daily achievements. They should come as a natural byproduct of what we happened to be doing anyway. That’s the point.

The point is that Anet gave us “Go to ‘insert map’ and do 4 events.” “Go to ‘insert map’ and view a vista.”

So tell me what’s wrong with the previous system? Why cant I do events at my current location. Why can’t I view that vista that’s just down the road.

My view on this new daily system is this:

Login rewards: Great, very nice.
3 dailies for 10 AP: Again, that’s great
Making me go to specific areas: Not so great.

Honestly though, after thinking about it, it’s not that big of deal. Assuming Anet doesnt tweak (which is a VERY MINOR, simple tweak) the system in the future, we’ll all just simply adapt to it.

Your main qualm about the new system is that you maybe have to take a WP or an Asura gate or two…

Yea I’m just going to quote myself.

“2. We want to expend absolutely no additional effort in order to attain any daily achievements. They should come as a natural byproduct of what we happened to be doing anyway. That’s the point.”

Amroth.2170:

Pino.5209:

Subdue.5479:

Amroth.2170:

Subdue.5479:

Amroth.2170:

Subdue.5479:

Amroth.2170:

Subdue.5479:

Also, can we please stop with the “LOLNEWPLAYERTRYINGTOGETTOSILVERWASTE” argument? You don’t need to go to Silverwaste to complete the daily for a newplayer, because a newplayer only needs to complete 1 of the achievements to get credit. That could be looking at a vista, or gathering some wood.

Of the two achieves that you could possibly do as a low level character, each was set in a specific map that many lowbies might not have and might not even be feasible for them to get to if they’re just starting out. Having only four very specific tasks for PvE dailies is incredibly restricting any way you look at it. Yeah, you can supplement with PvP or WvW, but why build a system that forces players into content? They should discover and experience those aspects of the game at their own pace. It seems like a lot of the adventure and discovery of the game has disappeared, only to be replaced with ANet’s heavy handed attempts to shepherd us through areas of the game that they feel need more traffic.

And honestly, that’s what bugs me the most: that I’m being coerced into something. I can even ignore the dailies, to be honest, but its the login rewards that have me eyeing the uninstall option. I mean, getting former daily rewards, that required actual effort… just for logging in? It just feels like a ploy to boost logins, and I really don’t want to be a part of it.

…What are you talking about? A level 1 player can both gather wood in Kryta (Queensdale) and look at a Vista in Ascalon (Plains of Ashford, or even Black Citadel). And a new, level 1 player, only needs to complete 1 item from the entire list to receive the 10AP.

If they’re human or charr… or figure out to use the gate system in their home city.

There’s always google, or the wiki, but I’d recommend you do a little experiment instead. Stand in any starter zone or town, and type in mapchat, “I’m new, how do I get to Kryta?” Then tell us how long it takes for someone to tell you, or even show you the way.

If I have to leave the game to search the web, or another player has to lead me through content to show me how it works, then that aspect of your game has failed. And here ANet has failed.

It completely breaks immersion. Not only that, but expecting low level characters to schlep all the way across Tyria to gather wood for a daily just seems ridiculously awkward. Talk about not playing how you want. Why can’t I gather materials in the area I’m progressing through now?

Asking for assistance from other players in a multiplayer game “breaks immersion?” Do you play this game like it’s a single player game?

Googling as per your adviced, alt-tab out, does break immersion. Asking for help from other players ingame, does not.

Sure, but the point is you shouldn’t need extra direction just to complete a daily. And it still doesn’t address the inconvenience. I would add that having to jump to a different starter zone would break immersion as well for some players.

You’re stretching there and you know it. I didn’t even know the dailies existed until I was well into the 20s and 30s on my first character, but had I known about it, I would not feel bad about having someone give me a tour of Tyria starter zones to get it, and I doubt many new players would either.

I’m just going to sum up the ridiculous opposition here:

1. We don’t care that we’re getting rewarded more. That’s not the point.
2. We don’t care that it takes less time to get those greater rewards. That’s not the point.
3. We don’t care long-time marginalized groups benefit greatly from the changes (AP Hunters, PvPers, to a slightly lesser extent, WvWers). That’s not the point.

So what’s the point?

1. We want to never be pushed outside our comfort zones. That’s the point.

2. We want to expend absolutely no additional effort in order to attain any daily achievements. They should come as a natural byproduct of what we happened to be doing anyway. That’s the point.

Amroth.2170:

Subdue.5479:

Amroth.2170:

Subdue.5479:

Amroth.2170:

Subdue.5479:

Also, can we please stop with the “LOLNEWPLAYERTRYINGTOGETTOSILVERWASTE” argument? You don’t need to go to Silverwaste to complete the daily for a newplayer, because a newplayer only needs to complete 1 of the achievements to get credit. That could be looking at a vista, or gathering some wood.

Of the two achieves that you could possibly do as a low level character, each was set in a specific map that many lowbies might not have and might not even be feasible for them to get to if they’re just starting out. Having only four very specific tasks for PvE dailies is incredibly restricting any way you look at it. Yeah, you can supplement with PvP or WvW, but why build a system that forces players into content? They should discover and experience those aspects of the game at their own pace. It seems like a lot of the adventure and discovery of the game has disappeared, only to be replaced with ANet’s heavy handed attempts to shepherd us through areas of the game that they feel need more traffic.

And honestly, that’s what bugs me the most: that I’m being coerced into something. I can even ignore the dailies, to be honest, but its the login rewards that have me eyeing the uninstall option. I mean, getting former daily rewards, that required actual effort… just for logging in? It just feels like a ploy to boost logins, and I really don’t want to be a part of it.

…What are you talking about? A level 1 player can both gather wood in Kryta (Queensdale) and look at a Vista in Ascalon (Plains of Ashford, or even Black Citadel). And a new, level 1 player, only needs to complete 1 item from the entire list to receive the 10AP.

If they’re human or charr… or figure out to use the gate system in their home city.

There’s always google, or the wiki, but I’d recommend you do a little experiment instead. Stand in any starter zone or town, and type in mapchat, “I’m new, how do I get to Kryta?” Then tell us how long it takes for someone to tell you, or even show you the way.

If I have to leave the game to search the web, or another player has to lead me through content to show me how it works, then that aspect of your game has failed. And here ANet has failed.

It completely breaks immersion. Not only that, but expecting low level characters to schlep all the way across Tyria to gather wood for a daily just seems ridiculously awkward. Talk about not playing how you want. Why can’t I gather materials in the area I’m progressing through now?

Asking for assistance from other players in a multiplayer game “breaks immersion?” Do you play this game like it’s a single player game?

Lyssan.3768:

DaveGan.8065:

Halthur.9654:

I personally was using the dailies for my alts exp.

Assuming you did all 8 non-WvW/PvP dailies on your alt you’d have gotten 40% of a level (5% of a level per daily completion). Over 28 days that would be 11.2 levels with you doing every single PvE daily.

Now logging in every day for 28 days gets you 10 levels worth of tomes. I suspect you can pick even more tomes with the 28th day bonus.

I have my issues with this change, but experience for your alts should be the least of your worries.

And you also lose the laurels you would have otherwise earned by choosing to get those tomes, if I remember the article correctly, it is one or the other at that 28th day mark. So, once again, less is more how exactly? You get the added experience of doing events in the area while working on those dailies, gathering (which gets you a little bit of exp ea one, plus money by selling them if you are so inclined), and yet somehow we are supposed to feel that getting less choices is somehow better than more choices, and how we want to play is perfectly fine, if it is how someone else thinks we should.

You earn more laurels over time without factoring in the 28th chest. Nice try though.

Amroth.2170:

Subdue.5479:

Amroth.2170:

Subdue.5479:

Also, can we please stop with the “LOLNEWPLAYERTRYINGTOGETTOSILVERWASTE” argument? You don’t need to go to Silverwaste to complete the daily for a newplayer, because a newplayer only needs to complete 1 of the achievements to get credit. That could be looking at a vista, or gathering some wood.

Of the two achieves that you could possibly do as a low level character, each was set in a specific map that many lowbies might not have and might not even be feasible for them to get to if they’re just starting out. Having only four very specific tasks for PvE dailies is incredibly restricting any way you look at it. Yeah, you can supplement with PvP or WvW, but why build a system that forces players into content? They should discover and experience those aspects of the game at their own pace. It seems like a lot of the adventure and discovery of the game has disappeared, only to be replaced with ANet’s heavy handed attempts to shepherd us through areas of the game that they feel need more traffic.

And honestly, that’s what bugs me the most: that I’m being coerced into something. I can even ignore the dailies, to be honest, but its the login rewards that have me eyeing the uninstall option. I mean, getting former daily rewards, that required actual effort… just for logging in? It just feels like a ploy to boost logins, and I really don’t want to be a part of it.

…What are you talking about? A level 1 player can both gather wood in Kryta (Queensdale) and look at a Vista in Ascalon (Plains of Ashford, or even Black Citadel). And a new, level 1 player, only needs to complete 1 item from the entire list to receive the 10AP.

If they’re human or charr… or figure out to use the gate system in their home city.

There’s always google, or the wiki, but I’d recommend you do a little experiment instead. Stand in any starter zone or town, and type in mapchat, “I’m new, how do I get to Kryta?” Then tell us how long it takes for someone to tell you, or even show you the way.

Edit:

You and Pino need to have a talk. He just finished arguing that the old system was harder, though technically before that he argued it was easier… Anyways, all of you whiners should get together and get your stories straight.

Pino.5209:

Subdue.5479:

Pino.5209:

Subdue.5479:

For those of you arguing that the new system is more restrictive, why do you feel compelled to do the dailies at all? This is a serious question by the way. You’re obviously not AP hunters, as AP hunters have been begging for a change like this for years. Why can you not simply forgo the daily achievements?

Because it’s fun to have a target when playing game, AP is one of them. Hence, i want to have fun while hunting for AP.
The problem with new system is: it is restrictive, which suck the fun out of it.

So… you want to “Hunt AP” while doing absolutely nothing outside of your norm? That’s not hunting, that’s being spoonfed.

What are you smoking? On the contrary, this new system actually more synonymous with your “spoonfed” term. Log in do nothing for rewards, do less, more restriction for more rewards.

You have to do and can do more things while hunting for AP on old system. You can choose where and how to complete them. Dungeons, WvW, spvp, fractals, roaming world event. It certainly not spoonfed and more flexible.

Do I really need to go back and quote how many times you and Lyssan said it takes you 0 minutes of effort because you’re just doing your own thing and happen to get the AP under the old system?

Pino.5209:

Subdue.5479:

For those of you arguing that the new system is more restrictive, why do you feel compelled to do the dailies at all? This is a serious question by the way. You’re obviously not AP hunters, as AP hunters have been begging for a change like this for years. Why can you not simply forgo the daily achievements?

Because it’s fun to have a target when playing game, AP is one of them. Hence, i want to have fun while hunting for AP.
The problem with new system is: it is restrictive, which suck the fun out of it.

So… you want to “Hunt AP” while doing absolutely nothing outside of your norm? That’s not hunting, that’s being spoonfed.

Lyssan.3768:

Jahroots.6791:

Halthur.9654:

I guess you missed where I posted that I was doing the dailies for the exp on my alts, you know, not level 80 yet. Due to the NPE grind. And that I absolutely detest PvP. And prior to this fiasco, it didn’t matter what level you character was at, you could complete the PvE dailies.

Isn’t the exp gained from dailies more or less negligible? Login rewards give 10 free levels via Tomes of Knowledge on the 27th login. Not a bad trade-off, imo.

Which I could have gotten more than that before from doing dailies, and exploring in the area if I didn’t have it yet and the daily called for it, and events, and running around with guildies who were also working on a new char, and didn’t have all the areas yet. So yea, getting less instead of more IS a bad trade off.

- Exploring an area
- Events
-Running around with guildies

Which of these are you no longer able to do?

Amroth.2170:

Subdue.5479:

Also, can we please stop with the “LOLNEWPLAYERTRYINGTOGETTOSILVERWASTE” argument? You don’t need to go to Silverwaste to complete the daily for a newplayer, because a newplayer only needs to complete 1 of the achievements to get credit. That could be looking at a vista, or gathering some wood.

Of the two achieves that you could possibly do as a low level character, each was set in a specific map that many lowbies might not have and might not even be feasible for them to get to if they’re just starting out. Having only four very specific tasks for PvE dailies is incredibly restricting any way you look at it. Yeah, you can supplement with PvP or WvW, but why build a system that forces players into content? They should discover and experience those aspects of the game at their own pace. It seems like a lot of the adventure and discovery of the game has disappeared, only to be replaced with ANet’s heavy handed attempts to shepherd us through areas of the game that they feel need more traffic.

And honestly, that’s what bugs me the most: that I’m being coerced into something. I can even ignore the dailies, to be honest, but its the login rewards that have me eyeing the uninstall option. I mean, getting former daily rewards, that required actual effort… just for logging in? It just feels like a ploy to boost logins, and I really don’t want to be a part of it.

…What are you talking about? A level 1 player can both gather wood in Kryta (Queensdale) and look at a Vista in Ascalon (Plains of Ashford, or even Black Citadel). And a new, level 1 player, only needs to complete 1 item from the entire list to receive the 10AP.

Lyssan.3768:

Jahroots.6791:

Halthur.9654:

Jahroots.6791:

I definitely agree that the choices feel restrictive, hopefully they tweak them a bit for future dailies. Overall I think players will be satisfied, as this change is exactly what a lot of us asked for.

I sure as kitten didn’t ask for this change. And I was too busy playing the game to lurk on the forums everyday to even see if they asked us. Because I would have been thoroughly against this change.

I think some of you are missing the forest for the trees, so to speak. At worst, if one absolutely does not want to complete the dailies, they’ll lose out on 10 AP. Not a big whoop either way.

On the other hand, we’re getting loads of amazing stuff just for showing up!

Seriously, you just log in and collect stuff. How are you guys not psyched about this?

Uhm, because it devalues the actually earned items that people actually did work to earn? It is like you scrimping and saving and spending your hard earned money on a kick kitten one of a kind car you special ordered, then 2 days later, your next door neighbor has the exact same car and they only paid like $100 for it.

At worst before, if people actively tried to achieve the dailies before or not, they earned probably 1-2 to maybe as many as enough for the daily achievement by doing nothing other than what they were going to do anyway. Where as now, they would be missing out, as you said, on the entire 10 AP. IDK about you, but me personally, I am perfectly fine with getting 1-2 achievement points over none at all.

To me, more options in this game is a better idea than less, and I for one do not appreciate the efforts Anet has made to try to force me and others into other parts of the game, starting with, I believe, requiring the WvW maps to be done for 100% map completion.

Correction: If you were only getting 1-2 AP before, then you’re ahead now, because while you’re not getting 1-2 AP anymore, you’re getting laurels, as well as the other stuff in the track.

Also, can we please stop with the “LOLNEWPLAYERTRYINGTOGETTOSILVERWASTE” argument? You don’t need to go to Silverwaste to complete the daily for a newplayer, because a newplayer only needs to complete 1 of the achievements to get credit. That could be looking at a vista, or gathering some wood.

For those of you arguing that the new system is more restrictive, why do you feel compelled to do the dailies at all? This is a serious question by the way. You’re obviously not AP hunters, as AP hunters have been begging for a change like this for years. Why can you not simply forgo the daily achievements?

Pino.5209:

Subdue.5479:

Pino.5209:

Subdue.5479:

Pino.5209:

Subdue.5479:

Just gonna repeat this:

@Lyssan

What purpose do you believe daily achievements should serve, if any?

1. rewards
2. get players to play

The problem is not with 1 but with 2.
Sure it’s quicker. More rewards for more restriction and less fun.
It’s awful.

Given that aside from AP, you actually get more rewards now just for showing up (laurels, and everything else in the 28 day track), without needing to complete any of the dailies, you could play EXACTLY the way you would have pre-patch and still be as well off if not better off than you were prepatch?

Perhaps you couldn’t read or something, like many said, it’ not about the reward. It’a bout how you get that reward. Being forced to certain area to complete dailies to get more ap ==> less fun, even if it’s quicker.

Perhaps you couldn’t read or something, my point is that even if you just showed up every day and did the things you liked, ignored the things you didn’t, sometimes get the daily, sometimes not, because of the more generous rewards that you get just for showing up, you are still coming out ahead compared to where you would be under the old system playing exactly the same way.

Lol keep drinking the koolaid. You are the one who can’t read. You still insisting and talking about rewards. It’s not about coming out ahead on rewards comparing to previous system.
It’s about CHOICES and HOW YOU GET THAT REWARDS.
It is certainly more restrictive and less fun now albeit far quicker and more rewards.

If it’s not about the rewards, why can’t you ignore the rewards and play the way you like while still passively receiving them anyway?

Pino.5209:

Subdue.5479:

Pino.5209:

Subdue.5479:

Just gonna repeat this:

@Lyssan

What purpose do you believe daily achievements should serve, if any?

1. rewards
2. get players to play

The problem is not with 1 but with 2.
Sure it’s quicker. More rewards for more restriction and less fun.
It’s awful.

Given that aside from AP, you actually get more rewards now just for showing up (laurels, and everything else in the 28 day track), without needing to complete any of the dailies, you could play EXACTLY the way you would have pre-patch and still be as well off if not better off than you were prepatch?

Perhaps you couldn’t read or something, like many said, it’ not about the reward. It’a bout how you get that reward. Being forced to certain area to complete dailies to get more ap ==> less fun, even if it’s quicker.

Perhaps you couldn’t read or something, my point is that even if you just showed up every day and did the things you liked, ignored the things you didn’t, sometimes get the daily, sometimes not, because of the more generous rewards that you get just for showing up, you are still coming out ahead compared to where you would be under the old system playing exactly the same way.

Pino.5209:

Subdue.5479:

Just gonna repeat this:

@Lyssan

What purpose do you believe daily achievements should serve, if any?

1. rewards
2. get players to play

The problem is not with 1 but with 2.
Sure it’s quicker. More rewards for more restriction and less fun.
It’s awful.

Given that aside from AP, you actually get more rewards now just for showing up (laurels, and everything else in the 28 day track), without needing to complete any of the dailies, you could play EXACTLY the way you would have pre-patch and still be as well off if not better off than you were pre-patch.

Just gonna repeat this:

@Lyssan

What purpose do you believe daily achievements should serve, if any?

@Lyssan

What purpose do you believe daily achievements should serve, if any?

Edit: Also, new players only need to complete one achievement for the daily. That’s literally walking into Queensdale and chopping down a few trees.

That’s an interesting idea. I don’t really see the connection between toughness and defiance, but the concept of being able to remove multiple stacks of interesting.

Would this game be better if the base value for endurance regeneration was at around 10% of its current value and scaled with vitality, while the base evade duration of dodging were 10% of its current value and scaled with toughness? Of course current endurance regenerating skills, traits, and items would have to be balanced to make sense with it.

DaveGan.8065:

Subdue.5479:

True, it’s possible that Langrim really is just unlucky as you say. It’s far more probably, though, that he makes his own luck. Harping on errors, berating one’s teammates, and generally doing things that will turn his team against him, causing him to get kicked.

…

My bet is that if he started recording his experiences and posting them from us, we’d either a) See him acting like a jerk and getting kicked as a result, or b) See him alter his behavior so as not to seem like a jerk, and find that he’s not getting kicked anymore.

The thing is, he’s getting kicked because he’s “too nice” to kick first, and he doesn’t like to single out people not pulling their weight, so the message goes to all.

The obvious solution is for him to just turn into a true filthy elitist thorn like the rest of us. He tries to give people a second chance, probably screws up the delivery and ends up antagonizing most of the group, and the rest is history.

Although Langrim probably bears a fair amount of responsibility for the messes he’s gotten into, be extremely careful not to hold him too accountable. That is, unless you have no problem with him reconsidering those second chances he tries to give to others.

No this is not how it happens, sorry. People don’t kick you because you tried to kick someone out that everyone perceived as being a a major hindrance. The kick you out for either being that major hindrance, or for being a an annoying tool. And since we’re saying he’s a great player, that really just leaves one alternative.

I pug every dungeon including Arah and Fractals up to 50, and I’ve noticed no such pattern of abuse. Rarely have I felt the need to kick someone, and even more rarely have I ever felt the need to kick someone, and have no one else agree with me to kick them.

True, it’s possible that Langrim really is just unlucky as you say. It’s far more probably, though, that he makes his own luck. Harping on errors, berating one’s teammates, and generally doing things that will turn his team against him, causing him to get kicked.

You can tell there must be seriously something off-putting about his attitude in these parties when the one person who is his “friend” and who is trying to defend him can only say he’s got “passive hostility.”

My bet is that if he started recording his experiences and posting them from us, we’d either a) See him acting like a jerk and getting kicked as a result, or b) See him alter his behavior so as not to seem like a jerk, and find that he’s not getting kicked anymore.

This idea is plausible.

Malediktus.9250:

Subdue.5479:

It’s pretty obvious what your motives are. The changes you want to happen give you a direct advantage on the leaderboard, where as the suggestions I make simply give everyone a fair shot.

I disagree.

..You disagree with the things that you said? That makes two of us lol.

Malediktus.9250:

I doubt anyone will care about a leaderboard exclusively made for who plays most hours per day. To me it looks like you are upset that you cant be competing in the current leaderboard soon, so you want to make a new one fitting your own needs.

It’s pretty obvious that you’re the one who’s out for personal gain. Examples:

Malediktus.9250:

I dont want to limit anyone choices, just a hard cap on daily/monthly achievement points (10k/2.5k would be just great. Casual players will likely never reach it in the next coming years, possible not even by the end of GW2s lifetime, only a select few hardcore achievement point farmers like me will reach it anytime soon.

I know I dont have to do all dailies, but then 1) Would loose my leaderboard position 2) All effort on achievements so far was wasted, because the achievement reward chests are a joke.
Not to mention the whole game is optional, so pointing it I dont have to do all dailies is just silly.

Malediktus.9250:

Your system would reward people who spend most hours per day instead of veterancy or skillful play. I dont see any improvement. Yes, you can optimize your time to get more dailies done per day, must most achievement hunters already perfected it.

Malediktus.9250:

Subdue.5479:

If Player A is ranked 100 on the leaderboard and is willing to spend 18 hours a day doing dailies and other achievements to move up, should he not be allowed to because Player B can’t handle the mental pressure of not doing all the dailies, but also is unwilling to devote the same amount of time and effort?

He shouldnt be allowed too.

It’s pretty obvious what your motives are. The changes you want to happen give you a direct advantage on the leaderboard, where as the suggestions I make simply give everyone a fair shot.

Malediktus.9250:

The way I see it Subdue is upset he cant be top of the leaderboard, so he wants noone of the current people to be there, too.

Actually, from the postings from this thread, Malediktus, it’s pretty obvious that you’re the one who’s out for personal gain. Examples:

Malediktus.9250:

I dont want to limit anyone choices, just a hard cap on daily/monthly achievement points (10k/2.5k would be just great. Casual players will likely never reach it in the next coming years, possible not even by the end of GW2s lifetime, only a select few hardcore achievement point farmers like me will reach it anytime soon.

I know I dont have to do all dailies, but then 1) *Would loose my leaderboard position *2) All effort on achievements so far was wasted, because the achievement reward chests are a joke.
Not to mention the whole game is optional, so pointing it I dont have to do all dailies is just silly.

Malediktus.9250:

Your system would reward people who spend most hours per day instead of* veterancy *or skillful play. I dont see any improvement. Yes, you can optimize your time to get more dailies done per day, must most achievement hunters already perfected it.

Malediktus.9250:

Subdue.5479:

If Player A is ranked 100 on the leaderboard and is willing to spend 18 hours a day doing dailies and other achievements to move up, should he not be allowed to because Player B can’t handle the mental pressure of not doing all the dailies, but also is unwilling to devote the same amount of time and effort?

He shouldnt be allowed too.

It’s pretty obvious what your motives are. The changes you want to happen give you a direct advantage on the leaderboard, where as the suggestions I make simply give everyone a fair shot.

@Yamiga:

The number one reason most people don’t care about the leaderboard is because the vast majority of players have no access to it. Plain and simple. My suggestions make it accessible and allow for awards to be attached to it, two things which currently are not possible.

@Awe:

We can argue back and forth about the value of competition forever. At the end of the day, several things are apparent:

1. A.Net implemented a leaderboard for achievements. A leaderboard. The definition of a leaderboard is:

lead·er board
noun
noun: leaderboard
1.
a scoreboard showing the names and current scores of the leading competitors

Whether or not you think it should be a competition, A.Net clearly does, and I am inclined to agree.

2. If my suggestions were implemented, and you decided you did not want to compete, you could simply focus on doing all the permanent that you feel are so valuable, and never look at the leaderboard, since it’s not important to you. You would be completing the permanent achievements.

Finally, I’d like to leave you with this:

neu·ro·sis
n(y)o?o?r?sis/Submit
nounMEDICINE
1.
a relatively mild mental illness that is not caused by organic disease, involving symptoms of stress (depression, anxiety, obsessive behavior, hypochondria) but not a radical loss of touch with reality.

Hellmasker.1649:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Hellmasker.1649:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Why would a completionist spend more in the gem store? There is no reason for them to do so because they are just there for points that you can get without spending a single penny beyond box price.

You clearly don’t understand. We don’t play this game solely for achievement points. We play this game because it has so much potential to be fun, when we’re not grinding dailies.

Way to bold one part of one of my posts so I’ll do the same by sectioning off this part of your post.

Why don’t you just play to have fun then if it isn’t such a big deal? Answer that directly please.

I do, after dailies. Sometimes during dailies, but it depends on the day.

Awe.1096:

Although to be fair I also accept that this may be a flaw on my own character. Perhaps my mild OCD which prevents me from being happy with the game if my daily/monthly tab is not maxed out is the reason. All I know is that I cant enjoy GW2 (for a great game it still is) if I know that I didnt done some random daily which due to lack of cap can never be made up for.

These are just a couple of the quotes that demonstrate my point in this thread alone. There is much much more evidence to back my assertion.

Sorry, I can’t see how this is pay to win.

Zorby.8236:

Now what is to stop ANet from retroactively adding a 20% chance to mine Azurite Orbs to molten mining pick? It’s not the sprockets themselves, it’s the “what will they do next?”.

If they did that, the supply of Azurite Orbs would go up, the price would go down, and everyone trying to collect Azurite would be better off.

A pay to win scenario would be if Azurite Orbs were untradeable, and thus that reworked mining pick was the only way to collect it, and thus to collect the stats that it gives. Even then, the argument would be on shaky ground as the pick itself can essentially be bought with in-game gold via gem exchange.

As for those complaining about the older infinite picks, keep in mind that at the time that you purchased those, you made a conscious valuation of the item and decided that the item was worth it’s price to you. The release of a new item doesn’t change the utility you receive from the item you already valued and bought.

I’d like to keep this out there as it would be a big step in helping people care about the leaderboard.

@Yamiga

It has points, it has a leaderboard, and while you may not care about the leaderboard, it is pretty obvious that there are those among the following who want to cap daily AP that do care about it. Furthermore, the suggestions I put forth match more with what one would expect an “AP Hunter” to want. When a hunter goes into a forest to hunt, his goal is to bring back as much as he can or as much as he needs, not to kill every animal in the forest. That’s how it should be for “AP Hunters” well. If there are far more potential points than a player can possibly achieve in any given day, it shifts the focus from “I have to do everything” to “I’ll do as much as I can.”

Just because you can’t see that, just because you don’t want that, doesn’t mean that it’s not better for the community as a whole. As it is, the system is a giant “screw you” to the 95% of the player base that didn’t start collecting achievements right from day one. What could be an excellent tool for A.Net to drive activity into lesser played zones, into lesser completed dungeons, for lesser completed events, instead stands as a flaccid ruler for the kittens of a tiny minority of the population, as evident in the number of your supporters who, prior to it being pointed out, even had their leaderboard ranks in their signatures!

And as for your suggestion, it is just a watered down version of the same deal that the others posted. It has the same pitfalls – making it easier for people at the top to stay ahead. Now, I’ve already explained it once so I’m not retyping all that. Instead I’ll just quote it for you here.

Subdue.5479:

Hellmasker.1649:

Omg dude there’s something you’re just immensely confused about. The other haters are at least understanding and arguing their points but you’re not getting it.
A cap on AP earned from dailies would mean in essence that any missed points from daily achievements could be made up, and once other players hit the cap, any points you earn are purely gaining you ground. It would help leaderboard competitiveness, it would help grind, it wouldn’t hinder AP rewards, especially considering they haven’t even figured out what they’re doing for 25k+ yet…

I’d appreciate if you’d stop making this argument, because it is blatantly untrue. A cap on AP from dailies does not make the leaderboard more competitive. It makes the leaderboard less competitive. Any rational thinker trying to move up (not stay put on) the leaderboard wants lots of temporary content. Here’s why:

Regardless of how much temporary AP is available if any, a climber can maintain about the same rate of AP gain over time as someone who’s already at the top. When temporary AP is uncapped, the people at the top must continue the same level of play in order to maintain their spot. When they slack off, the climber is able to permanently gain some ground.

However, when temporary AP is capped, the people who are at the top become entrenched. True, they won’t have access to quick AP from dailies anymore, but that doesn’t matter since given the cap, they know exactly how close the climber can get by doing those dailies. In the mean time, it’s wrong to assume that the people sitting at the top will just wait idly by while the climber climb. No, they’ll be doing the permanent achievements. So even when the climber finally reaches the cap on dailies, they’re still going to be way behind on permanent achievements!

At best, a cap will constrict the range of AP between climbers and people sitting at the top. In no way, however, will it help climbers actually pass those at the top, and in fact, makes it that much more difficult to do so, as there is little pressure on those sitting at the top to continue performing. That makes the leaderboard less competitive.

FateOmega.9601:

It has been a long time since i did my explorer(8x) and i no longer had any impression of any particular hard vista but i do have an area which i fail to discover how to access to.

The cliffs in iron marches near the fire shaman drakin cinderspire sometimes spawn platinum nodes but i have no idea how to reach it. I tried going from the waterfall and i even tried going from the branded zone further east but no path.

It not really a big deal but its bugging me. Do anyone have any ideas?

You move along the cliff to the west of it.

I find it funny that you go through all that trouble to paint this picture that I’m biased. However, I notice that you neglect to identify who I am biased towards, or against. Do you know why that is? It’s because the suggestion I put forth is neutral, fair, and more importantly, makes the game more competitive, and therefore better for all players. If you are going to bring up my views, that’s fine, but argue against them, not against me having them.

Oh, and I called the compulsion you guys all describe with regards to completing everything as a neurosis because it is. Look it up.

Yamiga.7863:

Hellmasker.1649:

Yamiga.7863:

Awe.1096:

3554091

Simple. Almost everyone in this game does dailies. Only a minority (and an extremely small minority) was salvaging 10 mil items or running 9001 CoF. One is not like the other.

I want to see how many players in GW2 will actually reach the treshold of 25,000 AP from dailies alone. Almost everyone?

Very few, even if the game stays for very long. I’d really like the daily APs to be limited in some manner, and the better solution (imho) I came up to is the following:

Progressive cap

Principle: Past X total points from dailies, dailies does not award anymore APs. Every month, the cap X is increased by 500 (numbers are purely indicative. Its meant to be a bit smaller than the maximum one can earn in a month, which is currently around 600)

Players affected: Dailies farmers only. As long as the numbers are correctly set (first cap and monthly increase), only the players that heavily farmed dailies since release will reach the threshold

• To reach the threshold, one has to have a large amount of APs from dailies AND consistently do more dailies than the monthly increase
• Even if a player reaches the cap, he will still be able to increase his AP score the following month
• The system is rather simple, yet effective and does not punish hardcore players, even on the long term
• It is also more flexible than a hard cap

Please tell me me if you see any flaw in this system. The more I think about it, the more it seems to do only what its meant to: slow down the grind for AP farmers without affecting other players.

A new take on it. Refreshing to see a new idea, I wouldn’t mind a system similar to this. The AP in question would be more comfortable ~200 or 250, but I would be on board on this.

My idea was to limit the top farmers to ~80% of the “normal” maximum income to avoid a threshold effect, but as long as the system works I’m fine with any numbers
The smaller the monthly increase is the easier it is to reach the cap, which means that players that already reached it have an easy time keeping with the increase, but also that players that didn’t reach the cap yet will catch up faster.

Another advantage of this system compared to a simple hard cap (since some people really think the leaderboard does/should have a meaning…) is that everyone can actually catch up with “top” AP players, because they’re slowed down, and even pass them if they slack off because the cap keeps increasing.

Why again would we want it to be easy to stay at the top?

Hellmasker.1649:

Omg dude there’s something you’re just immensely confused about. The other haters are at least understanding and arguing their points but you’re not getting it.
A cap on AP earned from dailies would mean in essence that any missed points from daily achievements could be made up, and once other players hit the cap, any points you earn are purely gaining you ground. It would help leaderboard competitiveness, it would help grind, it wouldn’t hinder AP rewards, especially considering they haven’t even figured out what they’re doing for 25k+ yet…

I’d appreciate if you’d stop making this argument, because it is blatantly untrue. A cap on AP from dailies does not make the leaderboard more competitive. It makes the leaderboard less competitive. Any rational thinker trying to move up (not stay put on) the leaderboard wants lots of temporary content. Here’s why:

Regardless of how much temporary AP is available if any, a climber can maintain about the same rate of AP gain over time as someone who’s already at the top. When temporary AP is uncapped, the people at the top must continue the same level of play in order to maintain their spot. When they slack off, the climber is able to permanently gain some ground.

However, when temporary AP is capped, the people who are at the top become entrenched. True, they won’t have access to quick AP from dailies anymore, but that doesn’t matter since given the cap, they know exactly how close the climber can get by doing those dailies. In the mean time, it’s wrong to assume that the people sitting at the top will just wait idly by while the climber climb. No, they’ll be doing the permanent achievements. So even when the climber finally reaches the cap on dailies, they’re still going to be way behind on permanent achievements!

At best, a cap will constrict the range of AP between climbers and people sitting at the top. In no way, however, will it help climbers actually pass those at the top, and in fact, makes it that much more difficult to do so, as there is little pressure on those sitting at the top to continue performing. That makes the leaderboard less competitive.

Can we all just agree to put a cap of 1,000,000 AP from dailies and be done with it?

fellyn.5083:

Yamiga.7863:

fellyn.5083:

I’d like to point out that your argument makes absolutely no sense. If dailys hinder you from doing what you want don’t do them then? Why does the game need to change because you have some sort of OCD complex?

I think your personal satisfaction level would sore through the roof when you realize that you are in fact not obligated to finish them every day.

The “all or nothing” play style you created is your problem alone and there is a solution for your problem already.

Following your argument, every pvp player unhappy with the current balance should stop doing pvp. Don’t you think thats a bit extreme? Instead, they ask for balance updates. Does that makes them mentally sick like you’re implying?

I, like other AP hunters play some sort of niche minigame within the game, which goal is to collect achievement points, like some people play the game to play the trading post or collect miniatures, etc. During the last year, the “meta” of this minigame has been drastically pushed towards dailies, december 2013 update pushing the time required to do all the dailies to the roof.
I am NOT asking to revert these changes. They were made for a reason, to make it easier/more rewarding for the majority, and our minigame suffering from it is just a unfortunate side-effect. Instead, I propose a small change that will only affect people playing the AP hunt.

I don’t see how game balance that affects everyone has anything to do with your own personal choices that affect only you.

That analogy doesn’t even make any sense just like the rest of your arguments.

Here’s one that fits. Say you eat at McDonalds every day of your life and it leads to you having a heart attack. You then ask McDonalds to cut their menu down to salads only because you can’t control yourself and are afraid of another heart attack because you’ve decided that you can’t stop eating at McDonalds.

That is what you are doing. The problem doesn’t lay with the the achievement system it’s entirely your own.

Man… Why are you hating on McDonalds. =(

Awe.1096:

bwillb.2165:

But with a cap, that places me permanently under people who have not missed any events.

How? They will reach their cap first and stop getting more AP from dailies while you will still get those AP and you will start to catch up.

I actually already explained this earlier, but I’ll quote it for you:

Subdue.5479:

I’ve been thinking about this since a previous person brought up the argument, and it’s actually quite the opposite. Any person who wants to climb the leaderboard (read climb, not already at the top of), benefits from an abundance of available, temporary points. Temporary points pressure those at the top to keep working and allow climbers to gain ground when those sitting at the top slack off, since those points can’t be made up. This is in contrast to permanent points, which can be made up at any time.

It is true that if dailies were removed, the total number of points available, and therefore, the average number of points between competitors would constrict. This would give the illusion of gaining ground. However, in reality, little to no ground would be gained, the rate of AP acquisition for everyone would remain equal, the only difference being that it would be impossible to “lose” points, thus making those at the top further entrenched.

Awe.1096:

Subdue.5479:

It is true that if dailies were removed, the total number of points available, and therefore, the average number of points between competitors would constrict. This would give the illusion of gaining ground. However, in reality, little to no ground would be gained, the rate of AP acquisition for everyone would remain equal, the only difference being that it would be impossible to “lose” points, thus making those at the top further entrenched.

You keep talking about the leaderboard like a core of the issue. I already stated multitude times that leaderboard is irrelevant. In fact I was strongly against adding the leaderboard to the game when it was first announced (it is possible to dig in posting history, I am sure those posts from over a year back are there). I predicted that it will create problems and their subject boomeranging here over and over is one of such problems. My leaderboard position (and other people who were/are high on it) was merely a side effect of the things I focused on. I was after those AP since the 1st day of game’s pre-launch back when nobody (including me) had a clue how the game even works. I also didnt liked the idea of rewards from AP (AP chests) even though I was in a fraction of people who benefited from those rewards the most. What ultimately happened and this whole discussion just confirms my fear that leaderboards will lead me to a disaster.

Yes, you’ve stated that you don’t care for the leaderboard. And that’s fine. In fact, because you don’t care for the leaderboard, it makes even less sense why you can’t just stop doing the dailies you don’t enjoy doing. That’s a personal problem that you really should learn to deal with. That said, it’s pretty obvious that while you don’t care for the leaderboard, people on your side of the argument do. Any of Malediktus’s posts will show you that.

Black Dragon.3784:

Oh lol and I can even go in detail on what I do… Cof p1 and 2 hotw p1 se p1 ac all paths each day profit of roughly 30g including selling mats and things

You just listed off 7 dungeon runs that total 13,160 Karma PER DAY, equating to 30g PER DAY for you. To get your 300g that you claimed, you’d have to do this for 10 days, and the Karma reward for that would be 131,600 Karma, not anywhere near the 20,000 Karma you claimed.

Black Dragon.3784:

I did not mention the fact I sold all mats salvaged dungeon token armours etc

…300g in 10 dungeon runs is 30g/run. You’re not averaging 30g per run. 5g per run would already be a stretch, salvaging and selling or not.

…What exactly do people in this game that both benefits from Legendary/Ascended gear and doesn’t result in boatloads of Karma anyway?

- Queensdale Champ Train
- WvW
- Dungeons
- Fractals

Everything there is to do in this game gives tons of Karma.

Black Dragon.3784:

Omg I was about to makes a similar post, I mean was there really a point of hitting karma this hard Anet?
1. Karma boosters don’t work how they use to
2.daily jugs decreased by more than 10percent
3.monthly jugs got reduced to 1 flask that is less than 20percent I THINK
4.can not get karma from champs in dungeons

Since all this getting karma has been a nightmare, how is it I have made 300g from dungeons but still on about 20k karma? It’s way too low. This nerf focused on how to reduce karma instead of looking on how to make karma more challenging to get… I would be happy with doing all monthlies instead of 4 to get back the jugs and I would be happy doing all dailies instead of 5 to get that 1 jug

Uh… no. Your numbers are so far off it’s not even funny. Well, okay it’s a little funny. A single dungeon run even on the short paths gives just shy of 2,000 Karma. That means if you only got 20,000 Karma off of your dungeon runs, you only did about 10 dungeon runs. 10 runs, even if you say you were doing only Arah paths, only the ones that give 3g each, is at most about 30g, plus drops of course. So unless you are counting some highly rare, valuable drops that shot you up 270+ gold, I’m going to have to say your claim has no foundation.

Vick.6805:

william dj.6953:

Would the changes make those at the top to the leader board. Easier or Harder to maintain that position?

By capping the possible achievement points from dailies, it makes it harder to maintain the top positions. It might actually make the leaderboard meaningful.

It seems counter-intuitive, but here is my reasoning:

If dailies are capped, I fully expect that ANet would remove the glut of daily points across all achievement scores, the same way they did for Agent of Entropy ages ago. If ANet didn’t remove those points, there would be almost no opportunity for anyone to ever catch the leaders (not that there’s much chance now, but at least the possibility exists).

When that happens, suddenly the achievement score range across the whole game, and notably on the leaderboard, becomes much narrower.

Yes, the people at the top will have to maintain doing 5 dailies (assuming the cap is set at 5) instead of 10 or more, which will be easier. However, they will also have to pursue increasingly difficult permanent achievements to maintain or increase their lead.

The primary problem with this idea, and (I suspect) the reason why ANet hasn’t done anything to address it yet, is that any reduction to achievement scores has the potential to really screw up the achievement-related reward system.

I’ve been thinking about this since a previous person brought up the argument, and it’s actually quite the opposite. Any person who wants to climb the leaderboard (read climb, not already at the top of), benefits from an abundance of available, temporary points. Temporary points pressure those at the top to keep working and allow climbers to gain ground when those sitting at the top slack off, since those points can’t be made up. This is in contrast to permanent points, which can be made up at any time.

It is true that if dailies were removed, the total number of points available, and therefore, the average number of points between competitors would constrict. This would give the illusion of gaining ground. However, in reality, little to no ground would be gained, the rate of AP acquisition for everyone would remain equal, the only difference being that it would be impossible to “lose” points, thus making those at the top further entrenched.

Furthermore, it is very unlikely that A.Net will reverse the achievement points from dailies, as they were intended to be available in those amounts for the time investment required of them. This is not the same as the salvage achievements, which allowed players to gain mountains of AP in mere minutes.

Malediktus.9250:

Subdue.5479:

If Player A is ranked 100 on the leaderboard and is willing to spend 18 hours a day doing dailies and other achievements to move up, should he not be allowed to because Player B can’t handle the mental pressure of not doing all the dailies, but also is unwilling to devote the same amount of time and effort?

He shouldnt be allowed too. Game companies should take some responsibility and not add stuff which encourage playing an unhealthy amount per day. There are diminshing returns on all kind of PvE stuff so its not worth doing anymore after a few hours, so I dont see how there shouldnt be something to discourage people from playing 18h a day to do dailies. The 4-6 hours a day are already beyond unacceptable. If nothing changes by release of TESO there is a good chance I will leave because the achievement system looks to be much better.

Hmm… diminishing returns? You mean like rewarding the laurel, karma, and mystic coin after 5 dailies?

At least you’re honest that your goal is to penalize players who are willing to out-perform you.

If Player A is ranked 100 on the leaderboard and is willing to spend 18 hours a day doing dailies and other achievements to move up, should he not be allowed to because Player B can’t handle the mental pressure of not doing all the dailies, but also is unwilling to devote the same amount of time and effort?

Yamiga.7863:

Subdue.5479:

@Awe.1096, Yamiga.7863

You can play the game any way you want. MMOs, especially in the case of GW2, are about enjoying the game the way you want to enjoy it. What bothers me about the specific change(s) that you guys are clamoring for is that they don’t affect gameplay at all. Nothing hinders you from playing the way you want to play now, without those changes implemented.

That means that there are two reasons why you might want to have these changes implemented. You might, rationally but maliciously, want to limit competition on the leaderboard, thus making it easier to maintain your place. Personally, I think the way the leaderboard is setup right now is already broken enough as it is, and really needs a major overhaul (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/The-AP-Leaderboard-Sucks-Let-s-Fix-It), but the change you suggest makes it worse, not better. Or, you might irrationally be trying to deal with your own neurosis by changing the game. If that’s the case, if this really is a mental illness for you, it really might be a good idea to step back. But that’s still not a reason to change the game.

You’re missing the point. Completely. I could care less about the leaderboard, competition or anything like that. I’m playing for the personal satisfaction of completing achievements, like I do on most games I play (I even went for Civilization V ones lol). In GW2 achievement points act as a global meta-achievement, therefore I’m trying to earn them as much as I can, including dailies.
This is a all or nothing playstyle, and the current state of dailies actually does “hinders me from playing the way I want to play” because it takes a lot of time (not skill) to do them all every day, and missing one or two of them just because I don’t have time is really frustrating, to a point its almost not fun aymore.
The proposition I made would fix that without any impact on anyone but AP farmers, people that share my completionist playstyle.

If it’s an all or nothing sort of deal and has nothing to do with the leaderboard or your position on it, why not just forgo the dailies altogether and focus on completing all the permanent achievements?

@Awe.1096, Yamiga.7863

You can play the game any way you want. MMOs, especially in the case of GW2, are about enjoying the game the way you want to enjoy it. What bothers me about the specific change(s) that you guys are clamoring for is that they don’t affect gameplay at all. Nothing hinders you from playing the way you want to play now, without those changes implemented.

That means that there are two reasons why you might want to have these changes implemented. You might, rationally but maliciously, want to limit competition on the leaderboard, thus making it easier to maintain your place. Personally, I think the way the leaderboard is setup right now is already broken enough as it is, and really needs a major overhaul (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/The-AP-Leaderboard-Sucks-Let-s-Fix-It), but the change you suggest makes it worse, not better. Or, you might irrationally be trying to deal with your own neurosis by changing the game. If that’s the case, if this really is a mental illness for you, it really might be a good idea to step back. But that’s still not a reason to change the game.