signet condi ele: [perma burning/bleeding x(immobilize+chill+condi duration and 1700 condi dmg)] = dead thief ^2
At this point I’d take anything, ofc I still hope for a baseline windborne but I can settle for anything now and really can’t imagine what else could be : increased dmg when using daggers? increased condi dmg?…sounds all good to me
The gamemode requires even more coordination than conquest, and yet here I am, pitted against ESL players(your goose is cooked, served..whatever).
This is your typical complain thread about the lack of a soloQmode, not many words needed as the subject has been spoken to death..this is just more a reminder, the new game mode won’t make things easier for pugs..on the contrary
What is your opinion? I don’t think it would be overly powerful and it would make d/d that much better to play in general, right now it will be never be chosen over renewing stamina and it’s a shame because it’s a very good trait to move around the map quickly.
The reason for 5 players is literally because of esports.
Its hard to transport teams of 8 players rather than 5 players.
Their esport yeah, each profession was supposed to be able to cover several roles …but here we are, imaginary roles forced on professions with no chance of breaking free from them.
The moment they start talking about “roles” the moment they invalidate this forced 5 man limit, if they want to keep this 5 man limit so badly then they must buff professions accordingly!
Talking as ele now, yeah there is d/d tanky roamer, a small minority are very vocal when it comes to discuss against this spec…and all because they’ve lost their 10m useless 1vs1 on a far point during some hotjoin match…and why should I care?
Why the entire ele community should care? The profession deserve buffs , obvious buffs. There are utility sets never used in PvP,elite skills considered a joke..by basically everyone, a weapon set in utter ruin (scepter)
All the above should be ignored because some carebear lost its “neverending” matchup against a tanky spec with subpar damage?
This bring me to main topic in the OP: why are you forcing roles on professions at this point?. It seems to me that ele “must” always be the water/earth tank..well screw that.
In two years time I seen re-design of entire weapon set for other profession : mesmer scepter, engineer rifle, thief sword and dagger, ranger longbow and that’s all I remember but I feel like there is more.
By contrast there is ele scepter, always the same since beta weekend : clanky to use, no synergy, ridiculously low auto-attack dmg, attack skills that can be avoided by an old lady playing on a dial up connection from New Zealand.
(edited by Supreme.3164)
I have always been wondering if the 5 man team limit is justified for a game where players can choose from 8 different professions, soon to be 9.
In GW1 we had a 8 man limit and I believe that in a 6 years time frame, I have never seen a single profession being left out from the meta, there was always a role( or several) for each profession…but this does not occur in GW2.
Now we’ve reached a point where professions “fight” to find a spot in a team this has lead us to a reality where people will simply go ballistic at the first sign of a “nerf”, because this can signify the exit of a profession from the “meta race”.
Nerfs are not seen anymore as a necessary evil bur rather a “punishments” and buffs by contrast will cause massive uproar and for this…I blame the devs.
This 5 man limit reduce the number of possible roles, this brings conflict between communities and the devs have only to blame themselves.
With all said and done, there is little the devs can do now except give the opportune nerfs/buffs while completely ignoring the massive uproars that would come as a consequence
The devs wanted a game where every profession could cover any role in a way in another, kk that has proved to be an awful idea and you devs are well aware of that, but what is done is done at this point , now all that is left to do is making sure each profession can effectively cover each role; you devs now can’t go and “force” imaginary roles on professions and then pass them as “major balance decision”.
You first talk about “freedom of choice” and now you want to force roles out of the blue..well that’s rich
Well let’s see about ele…
1)Support role check
2)Tanky roamer check
3)Condi spec – a possibility
4)Burst role…non viable
So yeah at 100%, our specialization must be burst, without burst the ele will enter a decline phase. And this burst be must extremely viable to a point where it can become a nemesis for thief class..like med guardians for most instances
All previous specialization announcements have had an image showing the profession being teased. Unless Revenants or Druids shapeshift into centaurs, I don’t think ArenaNet would break the trend.
That might be true for elite specializations, but they’ll probably show revenant’s remaining base class details before they reveal its elite spec, so it might very well be that.
This is like showcasing the Strength trait line for warrior. Do you really think that deserves its own week?
No it doesn’t! And this approach is very wrong for me, but oh well….
for Fresh Air Scepter/Focus, you would not get any better burst then that in this game. Look Phantaram does to people with that build.
The problem is, there is no room for error, one mistake and you are dead, we don’t have enough escape to be able to play that much glass cannon/spec.
Thief/Mesmer kitten hit the fans, stealth/reset comeback again. When we mess up, we die. I guess they should give our burst specs a stealth skill also, elemental camouflage, then I may start thinking about playing pure burst specs.
Otherwise, I can say I am middle tier and when I want to play a burst spec, I will play a thief, at least it gives me a chance to escape alive.
The set up for the burst is too high, on a med guardian I have to press 2 buttons to burst people as hard as a scepter ele going from earth to fire; on a mesmer and thief I can count on powerful stealth openers to gain the advantage in most cases.
The burst ele lacks so much factors respect to the rest:
1) Healing that does not rely on healing power
2) Offensive utility with an offensive facet
3) Better mobility maybe one with air will cover this
No matter what game you play, no matter what genre you like, no matter who makes a game, no matter if a game is old or new, one thing stays the same. Some people seem to live to complain.
When they are not complaining that every other class is over-powered, they are complaining about content. When they are done griping about content they feel the need to flame other people’s posts. When they are done trying to make themselves look good (by putting down others), they complain about something else. It is as if they sustain themselves by doing nothing but moan and groan.
Any MMO that is even sightly successful is going to have something, somewhere, that someone does not like. No one should expect a game to line everything up with their way of thinking. In many cases, it is hard to get a roomful of people to agree 100% of the time. How can anyone expect a million people to agree about the hundreds of points that make up a game.
Reading forums is like watching the news. Each channel (or person) will slant the details to match their own point of view. It is up to the viewer (or reader) to try and look past the personal bias and determine what is true
-Edit- One thing that will never change is this :Every balance proposal you’ll ever come across will in one way or another, benefit the class played by the one making the proposal
(edited by Supreme.3164)
This thread is truly entertaining , both sides are providing vast amounts of fun, hope a mod won’t lock it.
To blame the profession when it’s clearly the player the one at fault, a team of noobs will lose regardless of what they play
I may be wrong so feel free to share your opinions. Personally I believe that solo players are by far the largest group of players in any MMO and the success of a MMO depends mostly on its ability to reward this category of players.
With this I am not saying that a solo player should be rewarded as much as a talented and coordinated group of players, on the contrary there should be more incentives for people to create groups.
But still, the solo players represent the largest group, as such they cannot be ignored and the level of satisfaction of solo players is directly related, I believe, to the popularity of a MMO and in GW2 case, I’m talking about the popularity of PvP aspect.
I can see that teams are rewarded in effective manner, there are several tournaments with different rewards, ranging from legendary weapons to gems prizes…yet there is noting tangible for solo players.
By tangible ofc I don’t mean gem prizes, legendary weapons; I’m referring to something less conspicuous but that still hold some prestige, something that rewards solo players for their dedication.
In GW1 we had emotes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUeVs70UKVw
In GW2 we have a mini that can be obtained for free during streams and piece of armor as prize for advancing on a leaderboard based on number of played games rather than victories
Something more is required I believe. Can GW2 PvP survive while ignoring its larger player base?…Somehow along the lines..I doubt it
…Haaa..the old law of MMOs
Dear Devs do pls nerf rock, paper is fine and needs no change, it’s balanced
Regards
Scissor
To be quite fair, Cele is half of all three with no specific weaknesses.
You don’t understand.
You can nerf the cele amulet to the ground right now…in few hours people would come to the forum to complain about the builds.
I can beat people with a zerker amulet d/d, using same traits and you know what people will call me?…“celestial nab”
And this brings me to the 2nd law of MMOs
Everything that beats me..is OP
…Haaa..the old law of MMOs
Dear Devs do pls nerf rock, paper is fine and needs no change, it’s balanced
Regards
Scissor
The issue here is not Cele Amy Per Se, it’s those 3 classes that can maximize its effect because of their class design.
Wish people could realize this… Shoutbow and Ele can be tanky regardless of the cele ammy. The only reason cele is best for them is it allows them to do damage as well as survive well because their base has a lot of healing and defenses (boons/shouts) and they both deal with hybrid attacks on most of their attacks, so they get a lot of benefit from stacking might and having a pure mix of stats. Celestial is a symptom, not a cause of imbalance, and there is a very big difference…
If Cele was REALLY broken every class would have a strong means to use it, but generally speaking it’s not optimal for Necro/Ranger/Thief/Mesmer, though they can get some use out of it, they’re not problematic.
Remember, Celestial was buffed because it got no use, a very small percent. Now they’re wanting to nerf it by a larger percent than they previously buffed it because Shout healing, Elementalists and Engineers were buffed along the way. It should be fairly obvious that the issue isn’t an amulet’s weak balance of stats, but that certain classes were made to get too much benefit from stat mixing.
Don’t forget that thieves/guardians got buffed along the way : Mug now heals- meditations, s/d weapon set ect etc
Cele players be like
“NERF FIRE AND AIR, BURST DAMAGE TOO MUCH I SHOULD LIVE FOREVER.”Zerker players be like
“NERF CELESTIAL, IT’S THE ONLY AMULET THAT CAN SURVIVE MY BUILD.”everyone else be like
“I’d like to be able to play the game with at least some chance of winning.”I personally don’t think either of these amulets are op. I just think most of the other amulets are set up poorly. Instead of nerfing all the things that actually work, maybe emulate them. For instance, amulets with three stats could get a fourth mixed in. Amulets like rampagers just need a rebalance(precision main stat with 300 power lol). Also, nerfing cele to the ground wouldn’t do anything. People would run a soldiers variant of shoutbow, or a bunker guard and a zerker classes. Condition builds would still be terrible because all of the meta-builds have enough condition removal to minimize the damage just enough to win out in the long run.
Instead of always looking to nerf everything, like most people do on this forum, consider buffing the counters to the same power level (AKA not power creep). For instance, currently cele bunkers dominate because they outsustain everyone, have passive defense, and have sustained damage. The counter to this would be condition builds that can nullify your passive defense, and have better sustained damage.
That’s what it is always, people asking to nerf builds that survive theirs.
I’m not saying that, but the hambow days were actually fine with me, might stacking meta was very fun to play in as a s/d thief
The OP is a s/d thief who always had an easy time against hambow and ele was non existent so ofc he will complain about current meta, as I have always stated, almost every nerf request is done with a personal agenda in mind and not certainly for the love of a fair balance
I can guarantee you that whenever you see a “QQ nerf celestial”, the OP of the thread will be a thief (most of the time) or a med guardian and I have already explained why they complain and how they would not complain if things about their builds would be changed.
The sustain of thieves and med guardian has been buffed to level where the class can strive in a celestial meta, so would celestial be taken out the game, the next step would be to reduce that sustain of thief and med guardian
It’s naive to think that things would be left alone in case celestial would be gone, that sustain that med guardian currently enjoy in particular, would become the topic of major discussions…too much sustain for a zerker spec with zero investment in healing power
-edit- I wish meta zerker build would have not access to stealth, perma dodges, 2k healing skills on short CD. Then they would realize what playing a glass spec truly means, not like now with builds that have huge damage and sustain without speccing into it, then go around complaining about specs that actually have to invest pts in sustain to survive
If I’d be a dev I would normalize defense mechanisms across all professions then real talk about amulets could start
(edited by Supreme.3164)
Looking at the current meta, all the builds that use a zerker have the lowest amount of risk involved among all possible zerker specs in the game.
Med Guardian= outsustain all zerker builds in the game
Thief= highest disengage, engage potential, highest single target spike dmg, stealth etc etc
Mesmer= a thief – 2.0
Ranger=…press RF.
If celestial is a problem then delete it, but then add stealth to all professions or meditation like skills
But I bet those who want to delete/nerf celestial don’t want an equal playing field to start with…ha the irony
Talking about amulet differences when there is not base equality among professions, it’s pointless and only shows people personal agendas
The question is what’s the difference between those who can use zerker amulet and those who can’t?
This is my version: Those who can use zerker amulet have access to healing skills that require zero investment in healing power, thus the profession can reach max offensive potential while retaining the benefits otherwise given by a bunker amulet that include healing power.
Meditation Guardian= They sport a set of 5 × 2k+healing skills ranging from 20s CD up to a maximum of 72s CD, on top of that add a virtue of resolve (1.6k healing every 46s CD), 10s regeneration on 30s CD average….all this healing with zero investment in healing power
Thief = Mug offer 2k healing every 21s on average, 4.5k healing every 15s, you may add “pain response” – 1.3k healing regen every 30s. I won’t add the sustain obtained by stolen items/boons……all this healing with zero investment in healing power
Then there would be also : mesmer, power necro and ranger longbow, all of them benefit from healing skills that don’t require huge investment in healing power.
Since launch the elementalist has been stuck on builds that require heal burst, this in every aspect of the game, healing and boons are the only defensive mechanisms of the ele, both heavily rely on healing power to reach a viable level.
In the end people complain about celestial, because they can..if I would change : meditation skills to scale with healing power, reduce base healing of withdraw and similar skills…then people would surely change opinion
Again Zinkz, not saying Celestial didn’t push them over just the main problem was the skills/traits involved with the top 3.
There is no problem, your assertion does not match the reality of what has happened over three years, if these professions and their amazing traits/skills were so strong, then they would of been strong regardless, yet for long periods they have been between mediocre and weak, to the point of being virtually non-existent for months in the case of eles pre-cele patch, whilst bunker guard was in every single team for virtually 2 years and now we have medi guards, thief has been in nearly every decent team for the entire game, etc.
+1
It’s not your main job as zerker to stomp people, in case that you can then make sure you have the tools to stomp. Most games have the potential to be lost because zerker specs rush to stomp downed target and get aoed on; ranged pressure on downed targets is the wisest thing you can do as zerker
30sec cd is stupid.
You have to switch to earth for your rotation meaning you’ll never use this 5sec efficiently unless you keep yourself out of earth …
Its almost as random as X% chance when stuck
Yeah you’re right stupid idea, then I’d say this:
“Diamond skin= reduce inc conditions by 25% as long as you are above 50% HP”
New proposal :
“Diamond skin = gain 5s of resistance boon when swapping to earth, 30s CD”
No mention of cele rifle engi…so we have to assume that cele engi is 100% balanced, do you really expect people to take you seriously?
You complain about power necro random procs..and ignore IP? slick shoe anybody? …you already know the way to the door
Show me where I said any of that.
Wahoo! Bye frands!
Balance. Oh balance. Currently I think class balance is… subpar. Like I said earlier, celestial bunker builds like shoutbow and DD Elementalists have absolutely insane damage relative to how tanky they are. And they can also move around from point to point extremely quickly.
You talk about celestial bunker and don’t mention celestial rifle?
What part of this build is not bunker?
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Engineer_-_Celestial_Rifle
hmmm….forget it nvm, don’t want waste time arguing just pointing out the obvious.
No mention of cele rifle engi…so we have to assume that cele engi is 100% balanced, do you really expect people to take you seriously?
You complain about power necro random procs..and ignore IP? slick shoe anybody? …you already know the way to the door
http://dulfy.net/2015/05/19/gw2-daydreamer-weapon-skins-gallery/
Terrific job, great design, texture and dye combination…fantastic.
I can hold great hopes for future legendary weapons and I can’t thank enough the Art Department for this.
Cheers
I think cleansing ire is fine but I wouldn’t mind reducing the base life points of warrior.
I play necro.
i think condition is fine but i wouldn’t mind removing the fear from necro
i play all classes
I think you’re both right so we should nerf both warrior and necro
I play also all classes
So…with this “bug” , thieves cannot restealth immediately after failing a backstab…and thieves players say the game is now unplayable…hmmmmmmmmmm
I don’t think this is a bug….this is a miracle.
This is the best, amazing bug ever happened to GW2, I’d pay to keep it
(edited by Supreme.3164)
People blaming celestial when it’s zerker the problem…
Nobody’s complaining about celestial here. Cleansing ire is also used on soldier and zerker builds…
If there is ANY nerf that needs to happen, then nerf it after the specializations come out. Nerfing Cleansing Ire right now will kitten many people off. If you want it nerfed so bad right now, then nerf Slick Shoes and D/D ele too. Both are just as “cancer” and easy to be honest.
You’re not being reasonable.
You are a thief, I prefer not to enter into much discussion but….a thief is the last person on earth that can ask for nerfs on other professions, the entire PvP mode has been in terminal stage because of a single badly designed profession.
The first question people ask themselves when making a build is :“will it survive a stealth spammer hitting me for 6k dmg upward, out of nowhere?”.
So do pls forgive people if they add some sustain to their build, I guess they want to avoid to be insta gibbed by an invisible critter who stealth from a kittening mile away and can approach unnoticed
But now don’t look at me in that way, I’m not saying that ele doesn’t deserve some nerfs…but if you believe that thief doesn’t need some serious attention…you’re delusional
-edit- To the broken stealth mechanic, add teleports that ignore LoS, attacks that can go through stability, spammable interrupts, highest disengage in the whole game…and we have a winner, so pls dear thief…let me show you the way to the door
(edited by Supreme.3164)
In theory, necro boon stripping and damage over time attacks should counter d/d eles but their air 1 attack/heals, fire 2 short CD, earth shield and water cleanses out pace everything the necro has. The same applies to power necro builds vs d/d eles.
I play multi classes but still have more love for the necro…even if I suck at it coz I can’t seem to deal with d/d eles on necro.
I’d love to hear how you guys deal with them and what necro build. Not sure what my MMR is but I queue solo and faced Tarcis’ premade twice today.
But against an experienced ele
I don’t see why you expect to win against a more experienced player in general.
Forgive me for the following assumption but I believe that you’re asking to counter a profession regardless of the level of skill displayed by the opponent.
Water cleanse = 2 condis removed every 10s(for now) when swapping to water, assuming you have endurance for a dodge, in which case you barely cleanse a single condition
-The cantrip remove 1 condi each and they’re on a reasonable high CD
All of the above can be severely hindered by chill application, of which the necro is a very strong user
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dark_Path
Add to this the bountiful fear spam and you have a strong combo to use against eles.
If the ele wins…he’s simply a better player than you
It’s actually funny how you call burst-builds “skill-less”…
Nerfing sigils/runes wont really hurt the cele meta.
It WILL hurt the burst meta, since the sigils/runes they use, are more defining their build..SAY NO TO BRAINDEAD CELE!
While I can agree with you, it’s clear that some sigils truly require a change.
Sigil of Geomancy= a 3 stacks of bleeding every 9s…too much, simply too much, reduce to 2 stacks
Sigil of intelligence = a 3 guaranteed crits on a 9s CD, again too much, it should be 1 and on a 10s CD
Now engies will be a little easier to deal with, every little thing counts, a welcome change that should make PvP somehow more enjoyable, glad to see that exploits don’t go unnoticed.
Cheers
@Laraley.7695
For the last time you are not the community, you’re part of a whining small vocal ele minority, that has no real concept of balance. And unreasonable angry mob think they have the right to speak because of numbers…you should get a reality check
I suggest you to go and play all other profession…maybe then you’ll get an idea of what it means to face a cele d/d ele and what counterplay means
There is very little timeframe where you can actually harm the ele using a d/d cele build and that would be no problem at all if that small timeframe would be a direct consequence of the player skill level..which is not now
The ele community has grown too comfortable with the cele meta, all concepts of strafing, positioning, strategy, team play are all inevitably lost; your typical ele these days will just rush head first in the fight with perma protection/vigor, that’s too strong and I’m glad is gone.
No more words…you’re an incompetent player who completely ignore the meaning of the word: balance. You only see the world from your narrow d/d ele point of view…it’s hopeless trying to get some sense into you
And still talking about geomancer’s defense, it’s clear that you lack any notion of “logical thinking”, including the math behind it.
Edit- as I know that you’re incapable of any sort of lateral thinking when I was talking about perma protection/vigor finally gone, I was referring to overall self-sustain and don’t even worry about soothing ice because it’s getting nerfed at 200%, possible along with geomancer ‘s defense (of which you still don’t understand the simple math behind it)
(edited by Supreme.3164)
You should not talk about skill when you lack any understanding of gameplay and balance, on top of that you completely ignore basic principles of math.
You must be another one of those “heroes” who think geomancer’s defense is any different than a current ele speccing 30 in earth as you ofc don’t know that they’re removing stats from traitilines so I really don’t know how you of any others come to the conclusion that geomancer’s defense add anything in particular.
The elementalist is the only class that will retain the benefits of maxing a toughness line even before using any toughness based amulet this is your bone for the removal of EA from master take it or leave !
You and other wannabe PvPers completely ignore the concept of specialization vs versatility , one it’s not supposed to overtake the other like current d/d ele does; but I’m done explaining that, you and most other have this really thick skull..no words goes through it.
Nobody ever said that a d/d ele should not support or that they don’t deserve a defining mechanic, it’s just that EA is too strong to be the one…but that again is too kittening hard for you to get it
People defending slick shoes and instant cast over-charge shot are BAD at landing reasonable cast times. ANET should not be balancing on making bad play viable.
One of those things need to get nerfed, period. Learn to play, get better at landing reasonable skills so that if slick shoes/overcharge gets nerfed properly then it would still be useful, stop defending cheese just because your mechanics are low. Frame-eater slick shoes is NOT BALANCED specially when vampirism runes exist.
If they’re going to keep the “frame-eater” part of slick shoes, then at least lets start by making the OIL SLICK utility into THE stun break instead of the tool belt skill as an immediate fix. CC should counter engi, but right now? You don’t even need to land 1200 range grenades because of how forgiving 23 second + reset stun break is on Engi with vampirism and 16-20 second gear shield. It takes no skill.
P.S Not only slick shoes deserves a nerf.
Shoutbow, D/D ele, Cele Engi, all specifically needs nerfs specially with what they shown on the specializations.
I can agree with on d/d ele requiring nerfs, the passive elements of the ..elementalist should be reduced or removed in favour of far stronger active defenses that benefit wise and skillful gameplay.
The major problem of slick shoe is the revamped stability which now is not enough to counter these multiple sources of CC, maybe they should give some small buffs to stability
I’m gonna say this once again. You have some idea in your head that all these things are viable and how they should be because of some logic. That’s not how it works at all. At the moment d/d ele is the only spec that is viable in high tier pvp, while staff is left behind. While it might have a bit more support, overall the spec is worse, that’s why d/d ele is picked up by most elementalists.
I have to disagree with you on this in that staff is really close to dd in terms of effectiveness and is used frequently in the esl weeklies. Staff has better team healing/cleansing, is even harder to kill, has at least some decap potential and is just a better group fighter, at the downside is it loses burst mobility focused damage, and can only really stalemate 1v1 (but is even more unkillable in that situation). The issue is that both weapons use 0/0/2/6/6 with just two minor traits switched. This is where ele is pigeon holed at the moment, not with the weapon but with the traits.
I can add that staff can have some disengage capability, with burning retreat used backward in front direction, static field and unsteady ground
The new might on cantrip with reg/vigo on cantrip and removing condition on reg ele should never have a condition on them longer then 1/2 of a sec lol. 60660 d/d ele or even staff ele should be mostly unstoppable by any type of chill.
If you go 60660, then you have one condition cleanse on each utility, which are on pretty high cooldown and water 5. Also you might take soothing ice, but thats random and you don’t know what it’s going to remove. It’s really not more cleanse than what ele has now.
You have 4 to 5 base line if they add in the cantrip heal / elite that 2 more and if you count the fire one beyond its passive effect that 3 more. The reg on crit is 1 too. So you will have about 7 ish in a 30 sec window maybe more.
Okay, what?
4 to 5 baseline? Since when?
You seriously cannot count elite when no one uses elemental.Its 4 if you use 3 cantrip in your bar and use the passive cantrip from 4 in fire then its 3 more from that passive. You can get one more from passive EoA this is where the 4-5 base line comes from at least from cantrips. The added note is that they may be making a heal a cantrip and an eliet. Then you get the get reg every time your crit on a 10 sec cd for another condition removal. Just going 6 in water is a very powerful anty condition line Fire line give you one “ok” removal and Earth give you one “bad” removal if you go that way and one “good” temp. hard counter.
Oh, you don’t know what a baseline is, that explains it.
Let’s count together, what ele will have when going 60660:
1. Burning Fire, which cleanses 3 conditions, will be probably on 40 (?) cd and is passive, might be wasted on one stack of bleeding, cripple..etc. Also, it’s bugged and does not count as a cantrip.
2. One condition removal on 60 sec. (Armour of earth)
3. Two on 32 second cooldown (LF and Cleansing Fire)
4. One on 10 sec cd (Soothing Ice)What ele has now:
1. One for attuning to water 9 sec cd (Elemental Attunement)
2. One condition removal on 75 sec. (Armour of earth)
3. Two on 40 second cooldown (LF and Cleansing Fire)
4. One on 10 sec cd (Soothing Ice)
5. One for dodging in Water 9 sec cd (Evasive Arcana)So yeah, your new awesome cleanse build has less removal than the current d/d ele.
The cd for all cantrips will be -20% becuse of them combining reg/vigor on cantrip and -20% so your numbers are a bit off. Also 4 in earth gives you -33% movement effects.
Are you talking about befor the update or after the update becuse you cant have both dodging in water and swamping to water to removing conditions so its one or the other.Yeah, that’s included there. Notice the difference in cooldowns, but they’re still pretty high and I’m talking now, hence why there is ‘’what ele has now’‘. I already said why Geomancer’s training is not great.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ether_Renewal use this ..or you may want to learn staff …the more you know.
http://www.buttcoinfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Cool-Guy-With-Glasses-Got-Swag.gif
Elementalist, as well as a lot of things in this game, don’t have a “Counter”.
You just play the game and press buttons against them like anything else.
So you’re comparing eles to slick shoes nade engi? ..wow that’s low man…very low
To finish, after the change a bruiser ele will trait for 6 arcana I believe, that’s 8s CD on attunement, a chill application ( 66%) will bring the CD of attunement on 13s CD(base attunement now with no points in arcana), nothing as devastating as current chill where the CD of attunement CD goes up to 18s.
We’re giving too much credit to reaper, it hits hard…but it’s slow like GS ranger, luckily they can’t dush/rush like warrior GS
I don’t think I’ve ever been chilled long enough in a controlled environment to test it, but the wiki mentions chill reducing the recharge rate of skills by 66%, not increasing their cooldown by 66% like the tooltip states.
This means that something would take three times as long to recharge, when chilled for the entire duration.
Yes, you’re right about that. So for 3 seconds of chill, your cooldowns will be decreased by 1 second.
That would be a boon then.
No, it would not. For 3 seconds without chill, your cooldowns shoul be decreased by three seconds. However, if you have chill for 3 seconds, your cooldowns will be decreased by 1 second. How is that a boon?
Kk guess I’ve got the wording wrong
What I don’t understand is why people so hell bent on keeping an ele on a point soaking dmg, the weapon set itself shows no indication of being a point holder build.
Ele not supposed to be the main support with D/D, the build supposed to be a duellist build with some spare team support and we should keep it as it is, people must stop pushing this “support” down its throat.
Support is supposed to come from skills mainly not from traits, this should be something people have to realize already, our main support weapon is staff not d/d.
Major support options on d/d can be a double edged sword because you give devs a reason to nerf the duellist part of the weapon set, people go d/d and not staff because of the lack of strong duellist options for the latter, making the weapon set a liability for the team if not prepared.
You people must understand that the community will never accept a build that is strong both in duels and support, they will keep asking for nerfs…and the devs will only oblige, trust me.
The current d/d may fall out of meta in conquest but…other game mode options are coming where d/d may prove to be useful again, the spec is still fun to use in wvw.
If the duellist part of the ele get nerfed further…then really bb guys.
What this class needs is ; DAMAGE , that is applied without impossible to overcome risks
I’m gonna say this once again. You have some idea in your head that all these things are viable and how they should be because of some logic. That’s not how it works at all. At the moment d/d ele is the only spec that is viable in high tier pvp, while staff is left behind. While it might have a bit more support, overall the spec is worse, that’s why d/d ele is picked up by most elementalists.
There is no ‘’d/d should be this and that’‘. It works this way, because currently it’s the best way to use it like this.
It’s a team game, that’s why people pick that classes that have utilities to support allies. In this current meta if you want to run a bruiser, you have be both:
1. Capable of supporting allies
2. Capable of taking 1v1’sThis is the reason why staff ele, cleric ele, support guard etc. are not in the meta. While the support of the bruisers currently in meta might be lower, they make it up by the fact they can also deal some damage unlike those true bunkers. That has nothing to do with elementalist, it’s just how pvp is at the moment. While this meta will still go on and d/d will no longer be viable due to loss of support, it will be replaced. And it won’t be replaced by any of the true bunkers, because again those are not capable of those two things shoutbow is. It’s simple as that.
The fact d/d ele will fall out of meta doesn’t mean there will be something else viable. If you think that when people stop playing d/d ele and just replace them by staff, you are really naive. Staff is just a worse option for ele, that’s why very little people play it.
No one wants or needs bunkers that are not able to support allies or bunkers that are able to support allies but not deal damage and that’s what’s happening to d/d ele.
And for the damage part. If tempest is not insanely good, then fresh air will remain being a medicore build that won’t be used in any serious pvp. It’s still going to be worse than thief and mesmer. And no having tiny bit of support won’t help that because you have to take some support characters, who are also able to hold points, which fresh air isn’t. You want utilities like stealth, portal, moa, interrupts and boon hate, because the rest is dealt with by bruisers.
People pick d/d over staff because of the 1vs1 capabilities, those dueling capabilities would get decreased further if the support options would remain as strong as now.
Soon d/d will be a strong 1vs1 with low support and staff will be a strong support but poor 1vs1, but you still think that the community would allow a strong 1vs1 build with strong support…and you call me naive, kk.
And that’s exactly what I said. Staff is not capable of doing both of the things d/d ele and shoutbow is. Dude, shoutbow can take 1v1’s AND support, which is better than the d/d ele one. So yeah, it has been allowed. Unless you want both of these specs out of meta and be replaced by cleric eles and guards, because that was so much fun.
Question is…why don’t you play shoutbow at this point? It’d be faster than asking for ele to become shoutbow 2.0
What I don’t understand is why people so hell bent on keeping an ele on a point soaking dmg, the weapon set itself shows no indication of being a point holder build.
Ele not supposed to be the main support with D/D, the build supposed to be a duellist build with some spare team support and we should keep it as it is, people must stop pushing this “support” down its throat.
Support is supposed to come from skills mainly not from traits, this should be something people have to realize already, our main support weapon is staff not d/d.
Major support options on d/d can be a double edged sword because you give devs a reason to nerf the duellist part of the weapon set, people go d/d and not staff because of the lack of strong duellist options for the latter, making the weapon set a liability for the team if not prepared.
You people must understand that the community will never accept a build that is strong both in duels and support, they will keep asking for nerfs…and the devs will only oblige, trust me.
The current d/d may fall out of meta in conquest but…other game mode options are coming where d/d may prove to be useful again, the spec is still fun to use in wvw.
If the duellist part of the ele get nerfed further…then really bb guys.
What this class needs is ; DAMAGE , that is applied without impossible to overcome risks
I’m gonna say this once again. You have some idea in your head that all these things are viable and how they should be because of some logic. That’s not how it works at all. At the moment d/d ele is the only spec that is viable in high tier pvp, while staff is left behind. While it might have a bit more support, overall the spec is worse, that’s why d/d ele is picked up by most elementalists.
There is no ‘’d/d should be this and that’‘. It works this way, because currently it’s the best way to use it like this.
It’s a team game, that’s why people pick that classes that have utilities to support allies. In this current meta if you want to run a bruiser, you have be both:
1. Capable of supporting allies
2. Capable of taking 1v1’sThis is the reason why staff ele, cleric ele, support guard etc. are not in the meta. While the support of the bruisers currently in meta might be lower, they make it up by the fact they can also deal some damage unlike those true bunkers. That has nothing to do with elementalist, it’s just how pvp is at the moment. While this meta will still go on and d/d will no longer be viable due to loss of support, it will be replaced. And it won’t be replaced by any of the true bunkers, because again those are not capable of those two things shoutbow is. It’s simple as that.
The fact d/d ele will fall out of meta doesn’t mean there will be something else viable. If you think that when people stop playing d/d ele and just replace them by staff, you are really naive. Staff is just a worse option for ele, that’s why very little people play it.
No one wants or needs bunkers that are not able to support allies or bunkers that are able to support allies but not deal damage and that’s what’s happening to d/d ele.
And for the damage part. If tempest is not insanely good, then fresh air will remain being a medicore build that won’t be used in any serious pvp. It’s still going to be worse than thief and mesmer. And no having tiny bit of support won’t help that because you have to take some support characters, who are also able to hold points, which fresh air isn’t. You want utilities like stealth, portal, moa, interrupts and boon hate, because the rest is dealt with by bruisers.
People pick d/d over staff because of the 1vs1 capabilities, those dueling capabilities would get decreased further if the support options would remain as strong as now.
Soon d/d will be a strong 1vs1 with low support and staff will be a strong support but poor 1vs1, but you still think that the community would allow a strong 1vs1 build with strong support…and you call me naive, kk.
To finish, after the change a bruiser ele will trait for 6 arcana I believe, that’s 8s CD on attunement, a chill application ( 66%) will bring the CD of attunement on 13s CD(base attunement now with no points in arcana), nothing as devastating as current chill where the CD of attunement CD goes up to 18s.
We’re giving too much credit to reaper, it hits hard…but it’s slow like GS ranger, luckily they can’t dush/rush like warrior GS
I don’t think I’ve ever been chilled long enough in a controlled environment to test it, but the wiki mentions chill reducing the recharge rate of skills by 66%, not increasing their cooldown by 66% like the tooltip states.
This means that something would take three times as long to recharge, when chilled for the entire duration.
Yes, you’re right about that. So for 3 seconds of chill, your cooldowns will be decreased by 1 second.
That would be a boon then.
What I don’t understand is why people so hell bent on keeping an ele on a point soaking dmg, the weapon set itself shows no indication of being a point holder build.
Ele not supposed to be the main support with D/D, the build supposed to be a duellist build with some spare team support and we should keep it as it is, people must stop pushing this “support” down its throat.
Support is supposed to come from skills mainly not from traits, this should be something people have to realize already, our main support weapon is staff not d/d.
Major support options on d/d can be a double edged sword because you give devs a reason to nerf the duellist part of the weapon set, people go d/d and not staff because of the lack of strong duellist options for the latter, making the weapon set a liability for the team if not prepared.
You people must understand that the community will never accept a build that is strong both in duels and support, they will keep asking for nerfs…and the devs will only oblige, trust me.
The current d/d may fall out of meta in conquest but…other game mode options are coming where d/d may prove to be useful again, the spec is still fun to use in wvw.
If the duellist part of the ele get nerfed further…then really bb guys.
What this class needs is ; DAMAGE , that is applied without impossible to overcome risks
Sorry if I’ve offended you but it’s easy to see where I’m coming from. The conjure skills are now in this state because of people happy to exploit the kitten out of the game
When people were asking for changes you’d get always some white knight praising so much the icebow and Lhammer, all because they could stack in some dungeon corner and speed run it.
Now..everybody pay for the selfishness of few individuals.
This is another negative aspect of the ele community, as long as it’s good in pve, I don’t care about the rest…so much different from other communities.
Same thing with glyphs, if you go open a thread asking to buff Glyph of storms…you’ll get another white knight from wvw praising the skill..and there you go, subpar utiltiies remain subpar.
Again I’m sorry if I’ve offended you, this rant is not directed to you personally, it’s more of a general feeling
The 4s chill will be reduced without doubt, people would reach 100% duration otherwise, too powerful to be left as it is..but in the end yeah prepare to be quick on that dodge button, loads of pressure will be necessary to push the reaper on the defensive
I don’t think ele will be even able to face it in small fights, the chill is pretty deadly and it seems there will be lots instant procs that chill, too.
Bruiser ele will get rekt by high chill uptime, this is true.
Burst ele won’t have any problem, but scepter isn’t exactly great as you know.
Also, it’s ridiculous if you combine it with Chill of Death if you trait chill for damage. It’ll be basically procs procs procs and more procs.
Welcome to the future of GW2
Bruiser build will have -53% chill/cripple/immobilize duration, then add double condi removal every10s or chill removed on dodge every 10s, then add cantrip condi removal.
It won’t be an easy fight, but far far from impossible I believe, bruiser ele will also be able to use stone heart to negate chill on crit traits
To finish, after the change a bruiser ele will trait for 6 arcana I believe, that’s 8s CD on attunement, a chill application ( 66%) will bring the CD of attunement on 13s CD(base attunement now with no points in arcana), nothing as devastating as current chill where the CD of attunement CD goes up to 18s.
We’re giving too much credit to reaper, it hits hard…but it’s slow like GS ranger, luckily they can’t dush/rush like warrior GS
That’s great but if you take Geomancer’s training instead of Rock Solid, there is seriously no reason to take d/d ele instead of shoutbow. It has to trait more and more for survability and losing so much team support, you might as way take something else. With the loss of Evasive Arcana, the issues are even stronger.
If you’re facing a team with 2-3 reapers, there is no reason no to take Geomancer’s Training, but against a single reaper there is really no need to do that, you can just rely on team support and avoid hard to win fights, just rotate, you’re not supposed to wine every fight.
The current shoutbow will suffer against reapers, so much chill that their warhorn skills won’t be enough after a while and they won’t be able to outsustain the inc dmg forever
http://dulfy.net/2015/05/15/gw2-reaper-necromancer-elite-specialization-livestream-notes/
you can make a build where you cant be crit in earth. literally u will sit in earth attunement and use your conjures to win fights. this requires them to provide boons/active defence and regen/heals.
Awful idea Why give them a reason to nerf possibly (for me) the only earth GM trait worth using?. Some cheesy build is something really eles doesn’t need…this class has suffered enough nerfs because of people happy to win with silly and braindead exploits (see all conjures)…so SCREW IT!