Guild Wars 2

another thing: for godsakes move the JP to a different zone especially for EBG…

Seeing someone complaining that server X is camping the JP and please come help when his server is loosing in wvw and has a queue to get into EBG makes me wish i were on server X just so i could help kill him some more.

Its bad when you WANT the opposing server to grief people on your server so they will leave and in doing so help your server!

can and should still be a full pvp zone as it is now, just dont associate anyone in it with the player cap on any of the point maps

Skapocalypse.5236:

I have a hard time believing this mostly due to specific instants where only a few people get hit by siege. Maybe there is a bug because there are plenty of times when people stack up near a door where a catapult is hitting behind it trying to knock people off rams to only see a few people fly backwards and get interrupted and sometimes it’s not the people on the ram. It’s only a handful and no where near 10+.

stability

Honestly its even more simple than that: basicly whats goin on is because we lost all our gains yesterday the fight wound up centered on BG BL since thats all we had left, any fight on a borderland is naturally a 2v1 in todays game with the 2 invading servers attacking the 1 defending server. This makes sense because its pointless to try and take the other invading servers tower away thanks to that OP as heck breakout event, and even if you do manage to take it your chances of holding it right next to their spawn is close to 0… all that work for a meager +10 points and leaves your keep vunerable to the defending team…

So yes there is a 2v1 going on, no its not intentional on their part, just naturally good strategy, and yes weve naturally done the same thing in the past in tier 2.

Archiael.3258:

sil.4160:

If you haven’t read previous thread, both SBI and JQ do this rez thru the door thing. It was discussed before and considered legit strategy because if you consider this illegal then you must surely consider aoe, catapult or swinging sword thru door illegal as well because it operates under the same principle

I sure hope to hell that no decent SoS player would consider that a legit strategy. Whatever has been discussed or used by other servers/players/guilds does NOT mean that we should stoop to those tactics.

I dont believe it is either, but i do want to keep an open mind I guess… (actually in the interest of being honest and full disclosure i want to yell at him right no but im trying to keep the discussion positive).

Also i kinda agree, the advantage gained from swinging a sword, aoeing through, or even catapulting a gate is so minimal as to be almost a waste of time… Porting 20 people and then your entire zerg across a gate is a slightly different story.

Catas and aoe effects on gates DID end up getting a post somewhere that kinda made em legit by a Dev (was months ago so dunno where it went), basically they said its legit since they cant fix the effects of it so knock ourselves (or our opponents as it were) out…

sil.4160:

If you haven’t read previous thread, both SBI and JQ do this rez thru the door thing. It was discussed before and considered legit strategy because if you consider this illegal then you must surely consider aoe, catapult or swinging sword thru door illegal as well because it operates under the same principle

ok, can a ANet dev team member post on this please? if this is intended and considered a legit strategy I would like to know about it… (after which we will cheerfully (ab)use it ourselves)

until then, im gonna kinda stick with this being an exploit… i could be wrong though, just would like some clarification…

vinLazy.7218:

maybe he’s not the one i was guarding :P
because he is from Agg

oh, well this one was tagged with OnS… again not trying to accuse the guild nor server as a whole… i just am accusing 1 mezer and whoever resed him…

whats most sad is that this post will prolly get deleted by ANet now, and the issue will remain unaddressed yet again when it really would be easier for them to just fix the exploit and stop this from happening.

vinLazy.7218:

@vanguardjay i was guarding him before BG took bay lol

err, he was alive and we killed him… after they resed him and ported in… screenie is after that

umm, dont have kitten of it before hes dead, but he had a commander tag, so non lvl 80 mesmer in ons with commander tag dunno who that would be

not trying to accuse SOS as a whole of being bad or cheaters or anything, not even trying to acuse the whole of OnS guild of being bad or cheaters or anything… just 1 mesmer and whoever ressed him should know better

honestly though im not sure who to be more angry at, the mesmer for exploiting? or ANet for letting this go on unfixed for months now despite how many reports?

im sure they arnt but actually i hope they dont change this…

everyone knows about them and its the first place everyone looks when doin a mesmer sweep…

mediocre mesmers still always think they are being so sneaky hiding in there when in fact theyd be less likely to be found just about any where else

StormWolf.7645:

Never understood why the WP is contested like it is…why not just have Outer Gate being hit make the Keep Contested, but Inner Keep cause WP to be Contested. Makes more sense to me.

this also would work… and would be much simpler to program

would significantly strengthen waypoints however, but honestly they kinda SHOULD be strong unlike currently where they are super easy to deny and provide no bonus to defense of the keep except for the bugged couple of seconds they are up during fighting… they are the ultimate tier 3 upgrade or are supposed to be and its supposed to be very difficult to flip a fully upgraded keep.

Hartman.4267:

Jayne.9251:

it’s only fair you make a thief lose invis if he takes damage

this really is something that needs to be worked on, if i hit someone with a hammer, i would feel that my hammer impacted the person, this would be no different if the person would or could be invisible. is there any future plans to change this?

maby not with range so much (shooting stuff randomly you wont know if you hit) but with mele especially ya… even if you dont make him fully visible (which i think it should) it should still make some “wack” effect, show numbers perhaps, make some sound when you hit them… also major knockback, launch, blowout effects should reveal the stealthed invader… lets be reasonable, its tough to say your stealthy when your body gets sent is flying across the field.

whats funnier is with the chain ability (attack 1 on weapons) you know your hittig a thief because it continues along the chain…

Matt Witter.6982:

Draygo.9473:

Waypoints are currently the most powerful upgrade in the game but there are a few issues.

They are only inactive when the defense quest is active, are you guys planning on disabling them slightly longer than the defense quest to allow attackers to keep the defenders from spawning there just as the defense quest lapses?

For example under the current system I can count down on voip the defense quest and spawn in everyone right as it hits zero and before attackers can reflag the keep.

This is definitely a bug. I’ll see about leaving the rally points disabled for a few extra seconds after the event has completed. That way it just stays disabled if the event starts back up.

Ok that makes sense… but then on the flip side, after a team spends so much effort to get this tier 3 upgrade, should an opposing team be able to deny it for a full 3 min simply by having 1 character run up and hit the door once before running away?

Perhaps it should be more like if a certian number of players (say 10 or more) are within a close radius say weapons shot range around the keep and hitting it perhaps. (Truely besieging it as opposed to 1 character playing tag with the keep and then denying the use of a waypoint.

RoyHarmon.5398:

MikeFerguson.8921:

As far as being able to play just in WvW and never have to leave if they don’t want to, that most definitely is our goal, and I think we’ve done a fairly good job at that so far. We do need to make sure ascended gear is obtainable in WvW, but other than that I think we’ve mostly made it so you never have to leave WvW if you just want to play there forever. Feel free to point out why I’m wrong about that

Switching characters kicks you out of WvW.

queues arnt really a problem except on switch day in my experience…

at least not on our server, blackgate… EBG usually has queue during week but borderlands typically dont…

and given that we just moved into tier 1: id hope that was true for all other servers as well…

If it isnt, your on the wrong server methinks…

spartanx.1364:

DivineBeing.2086:

I gotta hand it to Choo for killing BG pugs with their portal bomb tactics. Sooner or later, the pugs will learn how to properly counter a completely stationary ball of players.

5 Necros = bye bye ball.
5 Warhammers = bye bye ball.

It works extremely well right now. I recommend to keep on doing it that way our pug’s can learn to counter it now than later in tier 1.

Do you pull your punches on our “Pugs”? Is that some unwritten rule that your never supposed to portal bomb a pug group or something?

Heck no blackgate practically invented the turtle and certianly we were the most effective in (ab)using it in its glory days … im sure theres an old SBI/JQ/BG tier 1 thread around here somewhere we could dig up

Anyhow weve trended away from it since it got smashed with a nerf bat (back in oct i think).

1 week after we were usin it to pwn up tier 1 (actually lead that week untill like thurs) after much screeming ultimately AOE heals went from infinite targets to 5 targets.

Portal bombing was and remains a completely legit tactic and honestly easier to counter than people think now days… its why HB uses it less frequently now than previously: works well vs pugs and disorganized guilds, but a good coordinated guild zerg can rip a turtle apart in a matter of seconds.

Also the aoe heals in this game are now << aoe dps over a prolonged period of time… wasnt the case before the healin nerf.

If your a dps warrior… maby but very very difficult

But if your highly skilled at wvw, chances are your playing a defensive warrior running a hammer build… in which case no, you dont have a chance at killin a defensive built guardian.

the good news though is they do so little dps that have even less of a chance at killing you, typically i just recommend you go about your buisness and ignore em if you can…

problematic.9623:

Mmmm. War Machine went to Kaenig? Any support you can add to confirm that?

buncha talk about it here https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/GOM-Kain-HOD-1-4/first

and here http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/78151-from-war-machine/

Hmm wonder how tier 2 gonna go next week, with WM gone the big question in my mind is everyone else gonna stay on SBI, if so they should have no problem winning in tier 2. (they have 24/7 coverage like black gate and the other tier 1 servers). or on the other hand, the rest of their guilds could jump to kaenig with WM in which case they become the next HoD / ET

They either need to fix culling or fix it so that if a thief is culled post stealth they cant damage you.

The current ability to abuse cloak and dagger to permastealth and kill a player without ever becoming visible to that player is flat broke and not working as intended.

Ironically many of the proposed solutions (make thieves visible if they take damage) really wouldnt do a thing to help with this as it dosent address the key issue (a thief that is supposed to be visible isnt).

Really they need to fix culling back to the “test” behavior asap, and come up with a solution overall stat.

Thief still may need nerfing (and probably will to some degree) after culling is fixed but it wont really be evident how much untill we see what the class does in a fair (culling free) enviiroment.

The question then becomes what to nerf, the answer is probably signet of malice:

Having the top burst damage in the game is OK.

Having the top burst damage in the game, and highest mobility is also OK.

Having the top burst damage in the game, highest mobility, and the highest heal per second of any class is NOT OK. (comes to somthing close to 400 heal per second, compare that to a guardians signet heal which is 203 per sec, warriors signet is 200 per sec passive, and mending is a bit higher at 281 a sec or so at full adren.

Basicly a thief should have to rely on stealth and manuverability for defense more than they are right now, they are not the squishies that ANet has described in their class outline, indeed in many ways they are fully capable tanks in dagger spec wih each round of dagger main hand #1 attacks able to heal them 400 hp…

The only thing they DONT do well is deal with burst damage, which ironically favors players who have less experience and are playing the burst damage builds.

pot.6805:

Peetee.9406:

pot.6805:

Where is SoR? lol Practically nonexistent in their strongest timezone.

Our diehards are still chugging along but we had an issue Sat morning that destroyed any chance of us getting our more casual players into WvW this week.

Ahh man that sucks. Just surprised cause usually you can easily put up 350 or higher during NA prime.

Same, usually yaal ahead goin into sunday, this is gonna make for a very boring week

ehh, cool drama…

do tell

Just as an update: its siege saturday in SOR BL

I have to agree with the OP on this issue: basicly it seems like the formula for armor was gimped sometime between BWE2 and BWE3 in order to address (the very valid concern) that guardians were too difficult to kill.

Unfortunatly this means that at high end, toughness for damage reduction is no where near what it needs to be on a warrior in pve nor in wvw when multiple opponents are the norm.

Now keep in mind that a warrior who goes for 3.5, or even 3.7k toughness has essentially put 30 points into defense, is wearing full knight gear, and by definition will be doing no where near the damage of our glass cannon counterparts much less other classes.

PvE: Still despite this, there are bosses (not using agony) in fotm that 1 shot mele characters. Basicly after fotm 20 or so mele becomes nonviable in most cases and warriors are forced to switch to ranged dps… a sad state for a class thats supposed to be designed to mele if you ask me.

WvW: again the mitigation we get from higher levels of toughness is no where near where it needs to be. Sure if we want to we can spec for 33k kill shots, but what if we want to be able to shrug off that shot? Basicly we have to rely on other professions for the protection boon, which kinda sucks when we are relying on them already for healing and condition removal and dps and aoes and ranged dps (again a toughness war having given up all of these).

I think the one way to deal with this is to make the armor stat class dependant, that way they can fix the broken toughness scaling for us without overpowering guardians in the process.

A second and possibly better solution would be to overhaul our (currently next to useless) 11 an 12 traits in the defense tree to work a often up protection boon in there. (changing retaliation to protection for example on spiked armor).

TL;Dr: It would be nice since I rolled a warrior for the ability to “shrug off blows” that would leave other proffessions disabled and out, to actually be able to do that if i build my warrior sacrificing all the burst damage, ranged dps, mobility etc to get this.

I think direct mele damage should at LEAST make a sound and show some effect or somthing, i mean, comon, im wacking a thief with my sword or hammer and dont know it?

Except i do because my chain attack starts going off.

Of course lets be honest here: even if stealth DID break on damage its not like it would matter, thieves wouldnt render anyhow thanks to culling.

Lorana.2468:

Kaz.5430:

Did you actually have a legendary in your inventory, that you had not yet equipped, and try unsuccessfully to list it on the TP? Or are you just making a statement based on wishes and assumptions?

If you did fail to list an unbound Legendary, then ‘that’ was the bug.

yes i did.

and explain to me why only the 3 legendaries i mentioned show up on the TP database, yet none of the others do, bare in mind that the TP will list almost every item in the game including Account Bound things like Lemons, or even items you cannot obtain like Caladbolg.

the other legendaries do not exist there because they by design were never intended to be sold via the TP.
Mail was always legitamate and is a seperate system from the TP.

the legendary i have btw is Juggernaut

because untill an object is posted atleast once on the trade post it dosent show up…

before someone posted a twilight you couldnt find a twilight by searching

no one has posted a juggernaut yet so it wont show up on the AH, when someone does, it will.

Also stat wise both the gs and the axe are terrible for a dps spec… PVT? on a greatsword or axe? really?

Need to put a way to change the stats in game without loosing legendary status imo.

of course i may be slightly biased

Seren.6850:

yet to see a frostfang in person, but I see six twilights as I run from the bank to the tp

ive seen it; guildie has it: not really impressive, cold footsteps are cool, on norn it freezes your hand, personally i think it should change our armor to ice or somthing cool like that…

maby an icebrood look?

Anyhow looks nowhere near as cool as sunrise/twilight, juggernaut, or bolt.

need to buff survivability: probably best to target high levels of toughness for this, toughness is ok at scaling but dosent scale nearly as well as it should especially since you have to sacrifice dps to get it: true in pvp and pve: getting 1 shotted and being essentially required to go ranged in most fractals past level 20 is not ok for a warrior running a shield and 3.6k armor.

to that end a few things they should consider:
1) our 11 and 12 defense tree traits: a warrior who puts 30 points into defense gives up any chance of doing anywhere near the damage you hear about from HB or kill shot. These are supposed to be the “ultimate” traits and across most other warrior trees and virtually all other classes they define and change the way a class is played in key ways.

perhaps instead of retaliation spiked armor could proc protection instead, perhaps a 90 sec cooldown for a 3 sec invunerability that only procs if your hit below a low hp and survive is a bit much. Im not sure exactly where to start here but these 2 traits need a MAJOR overhaul so that the 30 points into defense is actually valuable and improves survivability.

2) earthshaker: missing targets inside the circle isnt cool, especially when im making myself super vunerable by usin it into a sea of red.

3) charges often run through the target, and often off a cliff: now this would be ok if say the target dodged, but when they dont dodge this simply violates the laws of physics and really isnt fun.

Jeknar.6184:

Smokee.1754:

Poor attempt at a trolling post mate. BG still has empty / outmanned maps, even in NA primetime. Yes we did get an influx of OCE guilds, but dont forget we lost some to SoS aswel.

Indeed… I get outmanned buff a lot of times on IoJ BL and SoR BL. However i get queues on EB and sometimes on BG BL. I just think BG isn’t focused on assaulting enemy borderlands…

Its how we compete even with lower numbers during primetime, concentrate forces in 1 bl and EBG: if we controll everything in BGBL and EBG we are at +405 which means that even though we dont have the population to match say SOR during NA primetime nor IOJ during oceanic time we can still prevent capping via superior siege material comitments (BG uses more seige).

If we can hold most or all of BGBL and EBG… well… +405 in PP is a winning number.

Strat tends to work and we win the matchup at the end of the week, but weve lost points for the past 5 weeks running in ranking.

Basicly untill they fix and add orbs back into the mix we can keep doin this. Although honestly given how hard they are defended, orbs favor the server with better coverage even more heavily: its no fun for sure for SOR primetime to log on and see BG pushing close to +500 after our euro crew (which is second to none on any NA server including the tier 1 servers) has had the run of the place; now add +500 for BG and all 3 orbs and suddenly the NA matchup becomes favorable to BG.

Dwok Immortalus.2763:

Rodzilla.6251:

tkalamba.2541:

Rodzilla.6251:

SOR did you guys give up like IOJ did? You guys seem weaker then usual this week.

No pun intended.

We lost some of our Oceanic guilds, which we didn’t have many of to start with, so we are struggling to keep our coverage going.

Ahh that sucks, I figured it was something like that. You guys don’t seem to be packing the punch we usually see out of you.

It’s kinda sad for us too. I’ve been trying to help with the overnight coverage this week as opposed to running with the rest of the guild. It’s almost as if we lost all of our Oceanic coverage at once.

correct me if im wrong but not all of them are dropping to lower tiers, at least 1 large oceanic guild xfered to BG no?

Neandramathal.9536:

Deria.9158:

Also, DPS is not the only consideration. Each strike gives adrenaline, and each strike can crit, and each strike can proc an effect.

The reason that Triple Chop is worse than repeating Chop/Double Chop is because it takes longer to do those 3 hits, than the previous 3. So adrenaline/proc’s are still more efficient with cancelling it. 3 hits is 3 hits, but 3 hits faster is better :P

Deria.9158:

EDIT: Also, are you sure about the math? The Wiki link says Triple Chop hits for 858 × 3, not 858 × 1. I’m not in game to check, but I thought the damage number is not a cumulative total but rather the amount each strike does. I could be wrong, though, as I’m not online to look right now.

Math is correct, many people have pointed it out in the past (myself included), the numbers on the tooltip are cumulative.

Double Chop = Damage (2x): 538
Triple Chop = Damage (3x): 858
100b = Damage (8x): 1,624
Whirling Axe = Damage (15x): 1,005

If it wasn’t cumulative then Double Chop would do 1076, Triple Chop 2574, 100b 12992 and Whirling Axe a whopping 15075 on BASE tooltip damage.

Which we all know isn’t even close

actually those latter numbers sound about right for the actual damage you do with the one exception of whirling axe… and not including crits of course…

whens the last time you did a 100b at level 80 for 1.6k total damage?

Im not sayin they should or shouldn’t nerf it, im just sayin they need to be consistant: and mincing words dosent count: an Aoe anti projectile spell is an aoe anti projectile spell, and it should be that either aoe anti projectile stuff works on seige or it dosent… not this one does but these 4 dont.

Thats all.

Now if “poor elementalists” were in any way otherwise underpowered in WvW or in need of buffing then i might say that its ok for them to have a niche ability (like mesmers and portals).

Although no ones worried about em 1v1 play a level 80 ele sometime with its aoe and count yer badges / kill count at the end of day…

Now im not sayint they need nerfing either, they dont. But pretending like ele is weak in wvw without a niche ability like this is kinda a joke.

there is no reason for this to remain active but guardian to have had its siege blocking abilities nerfed in beta…

either projectile blocking = seige blocking (for guardian, mesmer and ele) or it dosent…

consistancy is one of the big things ANet has been pushing across classes (ie recent signet speed buffs)

nah, this needs to go and is an oversight on ANets part

Back in beta it used to be that guardians abilities could also block siege, this obviously got nerfed out of the game…

I think they just forgot to remove the ability to block seige from swirling winds.

Legendaries are BOE, BOE items can be put up for auction.

Now id prefer theyd make em account bound instead, but there is no glitch here.

if anything they arnt powerful enough… they do like no damage to heavy armored high hp folks, i dun usually even bother leaving the arrow cart rain unless there are like 4 or 5 of em shootin at me

tl;dr: get some gear with toughness and vit

Ardon.4105:

Isredel.4302:

They’re better because they can keep coverage throughout the night so this is somehow Arena Net’s fault?

He’s talking about the broken and blatantly flawed scoring system. If it was the intention of Anet to have the same people fighting for over a month, the matches would be lasting over a month. The current system punishes the winning team by forcing them to lose rating, and rewards the losing team by giving them rating.

It sucks all three servers into a blackhole until they are rated exactly the same, and it forces the first seat server to beat the third seat server into a coma just to break even. Hence the lack of progression. It’s also quite stale. Who wants to fight the same servers and guilds for over a month?

this is true… it is kinda unfortunate that despite winning 4 weeks in a row we loose raiting each week…

no it didnt get added, just the tooltip that got changed…

pitty too, itd make it actually worth using

Also make sure to PM em and ask just to be sure, its possible that the warrior for example was just porting to a way point locally by purely legal means… especially if they are in cursed shore for event farming.

Also mesmer IS a stealth class i think…

Peetee.9406:

Here, ill sum up the next 400 posts on this thread

SoR complaining about double team
IoJ pointing out their lack of coverage
SoR commander trolling BG players
BG players getting defensive
Many thanks for random combat at random location
Complaints by all sides about having to play a 6th time

Hope I saved you all a lot of frustration and time!

oh you forgot the part where they try to start another smear campaign as above

Peetee.9406:

Here, ill sum up the next 400 posts on this thread

SoR complaining about double team
IoJ pointing out their lack of coverage
SoR commander trolling BG players
BG players getting defensive
Many thanks for random combat at random location
Complaints by all sides about having to play a 6th time

Hope I saved you all a lot of frustration and time!

LOL true enough

Umm big question though: is their passive movement buff like our passive trait movement buff and the thief passive signet movement buff?

Cause our passive buff, and im pretty sure thieves passive 25% signet buff DONT WORK IN COMBAT.

In which case this buff dosent do a whole lot except let em move faster out of combat…

Now if this does work in combat it does hurt us…. but only so much because we just got our dream buff on our pvp weapon. (hammer shock works while moving now).

stealth dosent drop combat… actually it makes it harder to drop combat even when you unstealth

new patch alt-f4 = you killed em so there should be no problems with this anymore…

Ya, its free badges for YOU, YOUR invunerable you know… hey guys if youd like to come in our spawn be my guest!

Defense event just completed, should still be up for a bit.

aLL 5 temples clear on blackgate

Balth is Uncontested on blackgate. Also uncontested the others except genth… working on grenth now.

does last boss of dredge fractal with superheat on him count?

Schwahrheit.4203:

Tammuz.7361:

no its not 40k… its like ~31k or so with gear maby ~33 with some buffs

used to be higher with orbs around but those went away

i dont think theres any armor with it as the primary (major) stat

toughness >> vit for warrior anyhow though

Depends. If you think about it Vitality helps more vs. conditions because toughness DOES NOT make you tanky vs. conditions while having more HP simply makes you survive better vs. conditions. But yeah, why not have both ya know :x

Maybe there’s equilibrium in WvW.

better to run somthin like a shout build with soldiers runes, maby warhorn with trait…

problem with conditions is its not the damage you worry about but the other effects: 33% heal reduction from poision, increased cooldown on everything from cold. you should be removing the conditions well before the bleed does a significant amount of your life total.

guardians on the other hand HAVE to go after some vit since the bleeds WILL do dangerous amounts of damage to em and put em into a zone where they can be spiked down

what id really like to see them add to the game is a way of ordering WHICH conditions come off first when you use a condition removal ability

Juriasti.8297:

Crafted (all?) Knight’s gear, for PVE, has always been tough/pow/pre, so far as I know. Check the link below. Note the last edit date at the bottom of the page (26 November 2012). The only gear that I know of that has pow/tough/vit is Soldier’s, which we aren’t able to craft at this time.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Item_nomenclature#Triple_attribute

Edit: This is the only thing I can find that isn’t soldier’s but has pow/tough/vit — http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Emerald_Pendant

pve and wvw knights has always been power/prec/tough with tough as the major stat

the emerald jewls are kinda skrewy since they have prec as the major stat (pitty in my opinion)

what id really like to see for pve and wvw is vit/tough/healing power… might actually make mele viable in higher fotm levels and wvw

would be too OP for guardians in spvp though…

should be:
1) account bound
2) have some way to cheaply change stats from the pvt stats to what ever else to make them truely best in slot for the character thats wearing them. soldiers is NOT best in slot for many classes and builds

RavenWind.9283:

Tier1 isnt fun??!! Beemer(BMW) has no clue what he’s talking about. Tier1 is where the most active, most competitive WvW goes on. That’s why its Tier 1. Heck in his own post he talks about joining Tier 1 by knocking somebody out. Now at SBI we like that kind of spirit and we hope to see BG in Tier 1 one day. But that day aint today.

1) bandwagoneers
2) if your winning and your not SBI or JQ you MUST be “hacking” or “exploiting” and your server is a hacking or exploiting server
3) other servers putting bots in your BL to generate queues
4) smear campaigns on the forums
5) if your 1 big guild (WM) gets burnt out, you wind up getting crushed

why the heck would BG WANT to go back to tier 1 right now?